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Preparing for AI: The AI Podcast for Everybody
Welcome to Preparing for AI. The AI podcast for everybody. We explore the human and social impacts of AI, including the effect of AI on jobs, safe development of AI, and where AI overlaps with sustainability.
We dig deep into the barriers to change, the backlash that’s coming and put forward ideas for solutions and actions which individuals, organisations and society can take, and how you as an individual can get ready for what’s coming next !
Preparing for AI: The AI Podcast for Everybody
CONFLICT FAKES, LOVERS TIFF & AI IMPACT ON THE BRAIN: Jimmy & Matt debate their favourite AI stories from June 2025
The digital battlefield has a new weapon. As AI-generated deepfakes flood social media during the Iran-Israel conflict, we're witnessing perhaps the first mass deployment of synthetic media in global warfare. With fake videos amassing over 100 million views and even AI systems like Grok failing to detect these fabrications, how can we trust what we see? The implications extend far beyond this singular conflict, suggesting we've crossed a threshold where visual evidence—once our most reliable form of proof—must now be approached with profound skepticism.
Meanwhile, the business landscape of AI development resembles a high-stakes chess match. Microsoft and OpenAI's deteriorating partnership reveals the peculiar economics of AI investment—$10 billion for 49% ownership but only 20% revenue share, and mysteriously, zero rights to AGI if discovered. As these titans consider legal action against each other, we explore what this means for the future of AI development and collaboration.
The cognitive impacts of AI tools demand our attention too. MIT's brain scan study showing a 47% reduction in neural activity among ChatGPT users raises alarming questions about educational applications. Yet this isn't a simple technophobic narrative—we dive into how AI can either diminish or enhance learning depending on implementation. The parallel to calculator protests in 1988 offers a fascinating historical perspective on technology adoption in education.
From Disney and Universal suing Midjourney to China's remarkable AI innovations (with Minimax creating competitive models at 1/200th the cost of GPT-4), we examine how creativity, intellectual property, and global innovation are being fundamentally reshaped by artificial intelligence.
Join us as we navigate this rapidly evolving landscape where truth, creativity, education, and economic power are all being redefined by AI. The question isn't whether these technologies will transform our world—they already are—but how we'll adapt our institutions and personal practices to ensure AI augments rather than diminishes human potential.
Welcome to Preparing for AI, the AI podcast for everybody. With your hosts, jimmy Rhodes, and me, matt Cartwright, we explore the human and social impacts of AI, looking at the impact on jobs, ai and sustainability and, most importantly, the urgent need for safe development of AI, governance and alignment. Urgent need for safe development of AI, governance and alignment. Here we stand or here we fall, history won't care at all. Make the bed light the light. Lady Mercy won't be home tonight. Welcome to Preparing for AI with me, willie Thorne, and me, stephen Hendry. I don't have anything to say about that.
Jimmy Rhodes:Well, I've been watching Stephen Hendry. I think it it's called like q talk. Uh, it's like I it's actually not that new, it's been around for years. But it's steven hendry talking to snooker players and like it's really weird because I remember steve hendry from back in the day and like obviously never said anything and always looked pretty sour, dour faced scotsman and he's actually really likable.
Matt Cartwright:So it's mad it is. I didn't mean a criticism of you, I just meant I don't have a, because usually I have a comeback when you say because you usually surprise me by saying someone completely random, but, as you also said, a snooker player I just didn't have a. Oh yeah, I mean today?
Jimmy Rhodes:we had a quick chat before, and didn't we? And I just mentioned steven hendry you did.
Matt Cartwright:That's why, steve hendry, you said. I thought you're talking about someone. Is it Steve Hendry or Steve? No, it is Stephen Hendry, but you said Steve Hendry.
Jimmy Rhodes:Oh, I meant Stephen Hendry. Yeah, Not Steve Davis. Should we do this bit again? No, definitely not Okay.
Matt Cartwright:Well, welcome to Preparing for AI, the AI podcast for everybody. We are back with our very popular monthly news roundup. We're going to start off with what I think is the biggest story of the month. Well, it's the biggest news story of the month, or the year, or ever Decade at least yeah, but an AI slant on it. So Iran versus Israel. I've put I'm not sure what I should call it, but I don't want to give it World War III. Well, yeah.
Jimmy Rhodes:I didn't want to give it a particularly depressing title.
Matt Cartwright:So let's just call it Iran versus Israel and we can pretend that maybe it's a football match. But why? Ai is relevant here. So deepfake images and me and Jim were actually listening back to some previous episodes ahead of an episode we're going to put out where we revisited our AI predictions from last year and we were talking on one of the episodes about deep fakes and how they were kind of coming into elections. And then this, I think is for me, the first time that, like deep fake images have come into the mainstream in a way. That is, you know, I mean, this is not surprising, but they're not just being used for misinformation, they're being used to completely kind of play the narrative on both sides of this and it's led us to a place where I think already we kind of okay, well now, I watched the news here in china a couple of days ago and was like I'm just approaching this with the view that anything I'm viewing here could just be bullshit.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, like I, I think that, especially if you're talking about still images and news articles like you might as well like this is where there is actually an argument for reputable news organizations.
Matt Cartwright:Unfortunately, I've run out of my free reuters articles I just say reuters is the one, basically like that's the last remaining one isn't it?
Jimmy Rhodes:I wonder if I should cancel one of my ai subscriptions and pay for I think it's four dollars a month for reuters.
Matt Cartwright:Not, they're not sponsoring us because we don't get sponsored, but you know although my friend who lives for works for reuters actually lives in this building oh really, yeah, I've got a friend who works for reuters as well yeah. So what is yours more important or less important than my friend? Uh, I don't know.
Jimmy Rhodes:It depends who your friend is, he's the bureau chief. Uh, it's less important. Definitely, you've got a better reuters, I've got a better reuters friend, but anyway, so so I think the point is right. Like, how much longer can you believe anything that you see on the internet?
Matt Cartwright:the answer is minus. It's already past the point where you can believe it.
Jimmy Rhodes:I think with video you, there's maybe an argument where you can still believe it. I think there's actually like a really good I don't know whether it's an episode in um or like a just to talk about how you can spot deep fakes in terms of, like, sorry fakes, uh, in terms of ai fakes. So one of the things that I um just a little shout out to a channel that I follow, but like, there's a channel called corridor digital and quite a while ago now they did an episode on how you can spot AI generated images and it was quite interesting. I can't remember the whole episode, but one of the things they said is, like they have this really weird contrast thing. Diffusion based images have this really weird contrast thing where, like, if you look across the whole image, it's almost like neutral contrast, like every image is almost like the perfect contrast you can ever possibly get. Um, and so they are the skin?
Matt Cartwright:isn't it on on those kind of ai created beauty? Whose skin? Is just absolutely perfect, I mean, I mean even more perfect than on on sort of all the video that we well, we don't get videoed on it, but all the video that people get videoed in china, or images where everything looks kind of perfect.
Jimmy Rhodes:But these are like another level of perfect like the skin is is beyond perfect yeah, but I think I think there's also we were talking about this earlier on like there's a bit of a danger with there's a load of stuff online, especially been quite a few news articles recently about how, um, the prevalence of things like m?
Jimmy Rhodes:M, dashes and triplets and a bunch of other stuff in like ai generated content, and I think you have to be a little bit careful with that, because some of it's a little bit blase where it's like oh, it's really easy to spot all this stuff right now, but, um, so, like AI generated content, ai generated images. But I do wonder how much stuff gets past those kinds of filters If you even spot it in the first place, like, because not all models do the same thing. A lot of the stuff you see online, a lot of the news articles, are purely based on chat, gpt, because that's what's popular, and so I think, like I mean, you just need to be on your guard. And when it's stuff as important as this, you know Israel versus Iran, you know dropping bombs on each other what was the actual gist of the deepfake in this particular instance?
Matt Cartwright:So I mean to the deep fake in this particular instance. So I mean there's been many, so it's not just, it's not just one deep fake, but the the thing about this, this particular thing, is it was video that was being used. Um, I mean, the article is everywhere you can pick it up on. You know all of the kind of mainstream media outfits, um, but bbc's analysis apparently found that a number of videos were created using ai that boast of Iran's military capabilities fake clips showing the aftermath of strikes on Israeli targets. Three most viewed fake videos were found to have collectively amassed over 100 million views across multiple platforms.
Matt Cartwright:I'm going to say here because I think it needs to be pointed out all of this narrative is about fake, ai-created video on the Iranian side. There's lots of video from the Israeli side. I think, frankly, we don't know which is true and which is not, because there is, as I always talk about, you know, a narrative here that is supporting one side. I'm sure you can find plenty of media that will talk about how the sort of Israeli accounts are also, you know, ai created or also fake. I mean, you know this stuff already existed. You've said this quite a lot.
Jimmy Rhodes:It's not necessarily just about AI, is it? What are you saying?
Matt Cartwright:Matt, which side are you on? I'm neutral, okay.
Jimmy Rhodes:Just checking, sorry, carry on.
Matt Cartwright:So, yeah, I mean, there are various accounts which have seen massive increases in the number of followers in a few days, and this is another kind of thing where, yeah, maybe that's just because this is a you know, this is in the news and people want to know about it, or maybe there are, you know, many, many AI created bots that are fueling the viewing figures on these accounts then are driving the algorithm to pick up more. So, like ai is kind of being used everywhere here. The story itself was about ai video, so I think this was the first example where the video was good enough. It was. It was basically showing um downed israeli planes and, but I'm pretty sure something similar happened with the india pakistan conflict recently, where both sides were claiming to have shot things down and both sides were apparently creating or or were apparently referencing videos that had shown it.
Matt Cartwright:So, yeah, maybe this isn't actually the first one, but this is the first one where it's kind of really taken off in the mainstream and, as I say, you're getting these kind of you know, verified images, so I'm pulling one up on the screen for jimmy to see. Here that appears to be a. It looks to me like a bomber, I guess that aircraft, um, with a load of people around it, um, I mean, you can kind of tell by the size of. Look how big a, um, a sort of car is next to the plane that is a big plane yeah yeah, I mean the plane is.
Matt Cartwright:The plane is sort of yeah, the plane is sort of the size of a city, I mean again, if you look at it close up. It's obviously fake, um, but it yeah just like.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah it doesn't look, it looks a bit like one of the thunderbirds like thunder it looks exactly like a thunderbird's plane. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous anyway, I'd like, I'd like. I saw something else on your screen there which said like engagement farmer. Um, it was a bit further up.
Matt Cartwright:I was curious as to what an engagement farmer is is that a job that you think might still be available?
Jimmy Rhodes:post ai, yeah, a new, a new blue collar profession.
Matt Cartwright:So let me just, let me just reference, because there's several layers of this story that are really interesting. So, um, so, like I'm saying, I you know, you know my feelings to me about fact checkers and the likes of the bbc declaring what is and isn't fake you like them, if they agree with you well, I don't like any of them because I think everyone's got an agenda, unless it's my agenda, which is which I then obviously like.
Matt Cartwright:Yeah, that is exactly what you said, isn't it? But, um, there was a lot of what they call disinformation that had been shared on x, with viewers apparently using grok to establish whether it was true or not, but grok was, in some cases, insisting that the air videos were real, um, so there's one with a stream of trucks with ballistic missiles, um, and there were telltale signs in that, apparently including like rocks that were just moving of their own accord. So this is an example of where, you know, at the moment, it's obviously still, if you pay enough attention to it, there's still tells. Um, most people probably won't pick them up and most people probably won't pay enough attention to them. Um, but there are still tells. But I mean, how long is that? Is that going to be the case for?
Matt Cartwright:And the fact that you know, grok is not able to pick it up again, like, is grok not able to pick it up because it has been trained to say they're real, or does grok not pick it up because grok is kind of, you know, lazy? Is it just not got the technology to check it yet. There are so many kind of questions around this, but I think a lot of it doesn't matter, because we know like 90 of people will just view something and if it, if it confirms their biases, they're going to believe it wasn't the giveaway on that particular one on your screen, the fact that it says parody account and getting ready for tonight's show?
Jimmy Rhodes:presumably they retweeted it, I don't think so.
Matt Cartwright:The name at the top is iran updates. I'm not sure this is the official account that people, but you're right. Actually, looking at this now, it says iran updates parody account and the BBC has very proudly got a big banner on here to declare that they found this to be fake nice one, so we found yet another layer of this story that is hilariously interesting fantastic BBC verify on the case.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, so we can joke about it but it's.
Matt Cartwright:It's sort of equally hilarious and absolutely terrifying no, it is, it is, it is.
Jimmy Rhodes:We're laughing about it, but it's terrifying, it's definitely terrifying. So, in slightly lighter news, um microsoft and open ai have been having a bit of a lover's tiff over the last um, you know, recent times, basically. So what?
Matt Cartwright:so open ai sorry over the last recent time is that your time? Frame on this one. Uh, yeah, I'll be precise within the last month because that's the criteria for the episode, but we don't know when during the month it was. We'll go with that, yeah okay, so um open.
Jimmy Rhodes:Ai have been pushing for a little while to go for profit rather than not for profit, but apparently I mean a microsoft got an awful deal when they invested an insane amount of money.
Matt Cartwright:I think it was 10 billion or something you've got, so you actually say what the deal was first before.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah yeah, so, so they. So apparently they invested 10 billion for 49 percent um of the effectively the company and but although it was a, it's always been a not-for-profit, so that was it's all sort of fairly murky what that means. But they put an enormous amount of money into this not-for-profit company and got up to they got sorry 20% as part of that deal. They agreed 20% of OpenAI's revenues and they also agreed this is the most bizarre thing of all they also agreed that if OpenAI ever discovered or ever came up with AGI, which is like the best thing people can go back and listen to our episode on whether we've reached AGI.
Matt Cartwright:But one of the problems with AGI is no one knows the definition of it, so it's a kind of bizarre thing to base a deal on. Anyway, no one knows the definition of it, so it's a kind of bizarre thing to base a deal on anyway.
Jimmy Rhodes:No one. No one knows the definition of it and I think we said this before when we heard about this long lot, and maybe over a year ago now. But effectively, what the agreement was if open ai ever come up with agi which is undefined, as you say then microsoft get no part of that and obviously like if they come up with agi, like that's the most valuable thing that's ever been invented in human history. So it was an absolutely mad deal. So do you think?
Matt Cartwright:at the time they thought that AGI would never get invented, or because I can only see two alternatives they didn't think AGI was going to be invented, or they thought it was so inevitable that it was going to be invented. That, yeah, you know, open air were like we're never going to give it up because they were so sure. And microsoft were like well, we, we just, we have to get a piece of you, so we're just willing to sacrifice it because otherwise you can't see any reason you do that deal. It just seems bizarre. It's like we will not. We will give you loads and loads of money, but the most valuable thing you can do, actually, if you do that, then you can just have all the money I my guess is, and like obviously wasn't there, but like my guess is obviously obviously um, my guess is that is this a guess?
Jimmy Rhodes:yeah, that open ai was just so such a big deal at the time and seen as so valuable like the. When was the hype? So this was like around chat, chat, dpt was, three was out, but there wasn't anything else out at the time, so you didn't have all this competition so they were miles ahead of everyone else, it was just open, ai, I think at the time.
Jimmy Rhodes:So my, yeah, so it must have been that. It was just like this is revolutionary. Microsoft just saw this as a huge opportunity to get ahead of everybody else and probably agreed to some fairly unfavorable terms. Really, um, but it's 10 billion quid as well.
Matt Cartwright:It's chump change to microsoft, so you know why not true, 10 billion to them is, but well, it's not an insignificant amount of money, but I guess they're still getting. Like, even without agi they're still getting an incredible amount return, I mean at the moment they yeah they had that model in the background. We should probably remind people if they're not aware, like co-pilot at the moment. They, yeah, they had that model in the background. We should probably remind people if they're not aware. Like copilot at the moment. Anyway, copilot the you know pilot is.
Matt Cartwright:It's not just a wrapper, but the model that copilot uses is open ai they are chat, gpt, um, and so therefore they're already, you know, using it to make, I would imagine, quite a lot of profit. I mean, I think, you know, although a lot of the developers don't make profit really because they're just, you know, endlessly throwing money in R&D at producing the best models, microsoft do have a an actual business that they're using it for.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, 10 billion still not a small amount, although, funnily enough, in the same story. So I mean, I'll just finish the story. So, like, the whole idea is that basically, microsoft and open ai are now falling out because open ai are wanting to go for profit. Microsoft have a significant stake in open ai and microsoft are rightly so, saying we want a piece of this, and so they're trying to renegotiate the deal they've got. So what they're trying to do is they're trying to negotiate up from 20 of revenue to 49% of revenue based on the investment they put into open AI. But they're also just generally unhappy with, like, some of the stuff that's going on.
Jimmy Rhodes:So one of the things that open AI have done quite recently is they invested I think it was, I think it was like 8 billion or 7 billion into windsurf.
Jimmy Rhodes:But windsurf is a direct competitor with Microsoft copilot in terms of like if you're using github copilot or using copilot to code in visual studio, code, things like that and so open ai are like making overt moves and and microsoft don't actually own any of that, so microsoft don't have any of the profit sharing this. So, like, open ai are in this. Like you know, they've got this really sweet deal. They got at microsoft, where microsoft are lending them compute resource, they're actually training up their models. They've given them tons of cash. They're only giving 20 of their revenue back and they're making like fairly anti-competitive practices back against microsoft. And that's what microsoft is saying. So, um, so basically, microsoft and open ai are both talking about suing each other now, uh, and open ai have actually been talking very recently about taking microsoft to court for allegedly engaging in anti-competitive practices, so it's basically like a bit of a fallout going on good old america, hey, yeah, yeah.
Matt Cartwright:Like, when I listen to this, all of the undercutting and bags, backstabbing and suing and it's just you know, I mean I know that like that's how the us is so ultra competitive and that's why the us leads in in you know so many ways, but it also just kind of yeah, as someone who lived in the us for a while as well, like it, just that side of it just just really turns me off. It's like can't anything? Can't anything be, you know, collaborative? Everything seems to be a, everything seems to be, you know, a battle. Um, this is always going to end that way, though I think I mean like the microsoft, I guess just because of the agi thing as well, like the microsoft versus open ai thing. It's been going on for a long time.
Matt Cartwright:If you listen to other podcasts that do sort of daily, weekly news, every month, month, something will come up against about Microsoft and OpenAI and you just wonder whether actually it just sort of makes sense for them to be together. It's just easier, but they certainly make the relationship look tough, like it's one of those relationships where you know they're forever falling out. Maybe the sex is really great between Sam Altman, and it's not Bill Gates anymore, is it? He's too busy running the global cabal, so who runs it?
Matt Cartwright:Oh, Nutella.
Jimmy Rhodes:Nutella. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Matt Cartwright:It's chocolate spread.
Jimmy Rhodes:What's his name? I?
Matt Cartwright:don't know, but I just know it's Nutella, and it was you that pointed out to me. It's not actually spelt, the same as a chocolate spread, is it?
Jimmy Rhodes:It's not, no, no, and I can't remember what it is now, but it's not Nutella.
Matt Cartwright:Anyway, he had nothing to do with the delicious hazelnut chocolate spread.
Jimmy Rhodes:No, nothing to do with it at all, in case they want to sue us for any reason, as a little sorry as a little. They want to sue us for me saying he has sex.
Jimmy Rhodes:So, um, I was just going to mention, like, because, because people might have seen this, um because it's been quite mainstream news, so, um, the zuck apparently is offering a hundred million dollar um salaries and this has to be yeah, like a pr piece, right I don't know, unless he's gonna, or he's gonna, recruit one, not recruit like 50 of them well, maybe not, but the sort of money they're chucking about, like they're investing, like I think there was at the same time they bought a company I can't remember the name of the company, but they bought an ai company for 12 billion just the other week and so if you're talking about like the best minds in ai are in these few companies, what's 100 million dollars a year, like I don't know on the one hand it seems it's like crazy. It's like football player type salaries or even better than that.
Jimmy Rhodes:So that, like these, these top AI minds are literally been treated like superstars right now. And the a hundred million dollars, as I understand it, is salary, so we're talking like compensation. Well, over a hundred million dollars a year Crazy business. I wish I genuinely I studied AI at university like 25 years ago. This could be me right now, instead of sitting here sweating yeah, in your spare room we're in the studio, jim, we're not in the studio.
Matt Cartwright:Yeah, no, we should say we do have actually. We do actually have a studio.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yes, that's your spare room yeah, but today we're in my spare room. It's equally hot, yeah right?
Matt Cartwright:well, next up is ai reducing brain activity. So this is a. What are you shaking your head for?
Jimmy Rhodes:it's not my opinion. This is not a new, I know, okay, but I'm just going to disagree with it, right anyway?
Matt Cartwright:well, that's what you should do. I mean that that's that's how the podcast should be, so let me uh introduce it. So mit have just completed the first brain scan study on it. Specifically said the chat gpt users um, but I guess you could probably apply the same thing. So the results apparently are terrifying. Four months of data reveal the cost of easy answers. So 83% of people who used chat gpt to write couldn't remember anything. They wrote just minutes later, and only 11 of people who use google had the same experience that's the first, sorry, I'll let you finish the brain scans told a terrifying story.
Matt Cartwright:Neural connections crashed from just 79 to 42 a 47 collapse. So if your laptop lost half its power, you'd throw it out. But that is exactly what's happening inside the brains of heavy chat gpt sorry, what does that even mean? Crashed from 79 to 42 it sounds like an ai created stat. If ever there's one, doesn't it, it doesn't even give a unit so so 79 what.
Matt Cartwright:Okay, I'm also not sure, like when they check the number neural connections, like how they assess this. But anyway, let's finish. The human brain were left to think for itself. Fires on all cylinders, but, in contrast, large language model assisted writing tasks leave the engine idle. Teachers call them soulless. Perfect grammar, but zero personality, no depth, no nuance. We just recycle structure. In the final round, chat GPT users were forced to write alone. Their brains stayed flat, their essays got worse, mental muscles didn't recover. Meanwhile, those who wrote without AI finally tried chat GPT. Their brains sparked at first and settled into a steady, active rhythm. That's cognitive death. When the bot does the thinking, your brain stops training and when you need it most it might not respond. Other examples are Oregon State students who use ChatGPT had to brainstorm but wrote in their own words and produce more creative work than those who didn't use AI. And in Canada, two large studies have shown a darker side. People were more creative with AI, but a week later, without it, they performed worse than before and their penises shrunk.
Matt Cartwright:Obviously, that last bit is entirely it may or may not be true may or may not be.
Jimmy Rhodes:Ai generated nonsense, um, so okay. So, as you actually went through these, I start to understand the context a little bit now, because they're talking about use in education and, admittedly, I kind of read the headline on this one. So so, like going from back to front. Having being someone who uses ai regularly in and out of work, I both 100 agree with everything and that was just said, but also 100 disagree with the fact that ai produces brain rot. So if my my argument, my opening argument, would be if you don't do your homework which is what it's talking about right, and you use chat GPT to do your homework and you don't read it and you don't absorb it and you don't challenge it, and you don't have a conversation with chat GPT about it, and then you submit that as your homework, gpt about it, and then you submit that as your homework, then absolutely you are not going to learn anything and you are going to have a reduction in neural connections from 70, whatever it was, to 49 um.
Jimmy Rhodes:But that's not how you should use AI, and we've been talking about this like over and over again. Like I use AI to do administrative work quickly. It's not stuff that I don't know how to do. It's stuff that I don't want to do because it's boring and I need to get it out of the way quickly. Right, that's what ai should be used for. Like, if you're letting kids use ai to write their homework for them, then, surprise, surprise, they're not going to learn anything. I mean, I don't know how. That's a shocking statement.
Matt Cartwright:I actually agree with you so, so, so I because I can't disagree with you. Um, no, I do. I completely, I completely agree with you. I think this is a great example of where, you know, it's not about the technology, it's about the way that you use it. Um, and and actually, if, like, if you read some of the more interesting kind of articles about this, that's what almost everybody talks about. You know, it's a headline grabbing survey that says look what chat dpt does to your brain. It's very similar, I mean, actually, I think it's not quite the same. I think with with short video, there's actually, um, you know, it's actually shown that watching lots and lots of short videos it actually rewires your brain and stops you from being able to concentrate. And but again, it's not that the problem is video, it's the problem is just watching short videos over and over again.
Matt Cartwright:Um, the example here with ai and this for people who are trying to look and think about education in the future yeah, actually, I think on this podcast, maybe at some point we talked about, you know, the use of school and needing to teach different things and teach people in a different way, and now I've sort of reversed back to thinking. Actually, a lot of what we need to teach people is, yes, we need to teach critical thinking, but actually we also need to teach people in a different way. And now I've sort of reversed back to thinking. Actually, a lot of what we need to teach people is yes, we need to teach critical thinking, but actually we also need to teach people the basic things, just so that their brain is able to think and understand those things. Like you said, if, if you're using chat, gpt to just do things for you and so you're not doing the work, or you're just, you know, reading something mind numbing, but if I create a um, if I create using whatever let's say I'm using claude, let's say I, I do a deep research report on something and I read that report like that is adding to my knowledge, right, it's.
Matt Cartwright:Also, if I'm reading a long piece, it's making me concentrate, I am creating new synapses between you know, in my brain. I'm learning things, I'm improving my thoughts. So ai can be used in that sense as a tool for good, if you use it to do research, if you use it to learn, if you use it to help you understand the process of learning. But yeah, of course, if you just get it to give you the answers, you're not going to gain stuff. I mean, this is a kind of headline grabber, you know, you know my, my view on this is like to the brain, like we had an episode where actually we talked about kovid, didn't we? I talked about how I think, like the sort of brain loss that's happening through kobe, I mean, I think you know that to me is real and you can, you can kind of see that that is something almost unavoidable. You get infected, you can't kind of stop that. It's not about how you deal with it.
Matt Cartwright:This is about how you deal with using AI. It's completely different.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, I mean, the COVID thing is presumably a proven mechanism.
Matt Cartwright:It's a biological mechanism. Yeah, it's neuroinflammation, it's reduction of cerebral cortex.
Jimmy Rhodes:We've talked about this before, but I thought I'd pull it up from, of course, the We've talked about this before, but I thought I'd pull it up from, of course, the font of all truth, Reddit. But I've pulled up an actual it looks like a picture of an actual news article from 1988, where teachers were out.
Matt Cartwright:elementary school teachers were out picketing, so with banners protesting against calculator use, use um.
Jimmy Rhodes:Math teachers yeah, math teachers protest against calculator use um in grade school because if teacher teachers feel that if students use calculators too early, they won't learn math concepts, now how untrue and utter nonsense was that like like okay, do people routinely add numbers up when you've got a calculator that can do it quicker? No, but has that got anything to do with learning the concepts of maths and how maths works and developing an understanding of maths? Also no, and so I think fundamentally for me and this is not straightforward, but what needs to happen is like education needs to change.
Matt Cartwright:If everyone's using ChatG, gpt now to submit their um, to submit their coursework, then you need to find other ways of testing that yeah, I've quite often used the example of the sort of master's degree that I was doing and how I think in the future people won't won't study, so I'm going to use a different example. I won't use that one again. But, um, I write a sort of health, alternative health blog in China. I do in Chinese. Now, when I'm writing that, I use AI to help me with it.
Matt Cartwright:If I wrote that article completely myself from scratch, I think there would be a degree of kind of memory forming that would be maybe better than using AI to help me, but I wouldn't have um as high quality content in there if I just let ai write something and then just sent it out. There would be zero learning, um. But I think what I'm doing, which is writing the kind of skeleton on the outside and then saying, can you give me a bit of information around this and reference some articles for me? And then I'm tweaking that and reading it and putting it in to me. That is like as I write these articles, and part of the reason for doing it like part of the reason was like people wanting me to share some of the stuff that I understand with them and kind of help people, but part of it for me is also like it's developing my knowledge, because every time I write an article I kind of do research. So that's a really good example of how like it depends on how you use ai. Um, there was actually an example, so I think this is really interesting.
Matt Cartwright:When I when I was, I just asked for um a kind of summary of this article from claude, and because it knows um, because it's got memory now and it talked, it gave a functional, medical, functional medicine angle to this, which is like a really interesting thing where it's talking about neuroplasticity and opportunity. So the brain's lifelong neuroplasticity means we can strengthen specific circuits through targeted interventions, from meditation, cognitive training to neurostimulation. So if people don't understand, that is literally how you rewire your brain. It's the way that cognitive behavior, therapy and stuff works. The concern shouldn't be that ai changes our brains, but whether we're directing that change intentionally. So you know we have kind of control of using ai to help us rewire our brains in a better way. We also have a way of letting our brains become lazy and that is in.
Jimmy Rhodes:That is for us to decide yeah, I agree, I agree, and something that I mean just to finish up on this, like something that a lot of people have said which, like I'm coming around to now um is that and this is. This is the problem with education, like it's a problem with a lot of stuff.
Jimmy Rhodes:Right, it's very slow moving and the pace of ai is so so fast, but I think there's an argument now for like actually having like, genuinely actually creating a society of for what a better word. Like generalists like you can now delve into any um. You can delve into any subject and be a bit of an expert on anything, and I find that fascinating. I find it fascinating that you can, like I could go and write a blog post on something and, okay, you need a like, having a bit of knowledge is good, but you can fact check stuff, you can research stuff so so quickly now, so so efficiently, and so you can dip in and out of stuff like and and so the opportunity for learning for me is intensified.
Matt Cartwright:I think the problem with the article you referred to is their problem is how to test people, yeah, and how to encourage people, how to learn, not how to like, how ai can actually help you learn um and so it's a bit like saying like, oh, we got some people who are really good at football and we got one of them to just sit there and do nothing and we got some others to play football and oh, the ones who sat there got worse at football. It's like, well, they didn't get worse at football because of like, they got worse at football because they weren't doing anything yeah not because it was making them worse.
Matt Cartwright:What was making them worse is the. Is the just sitting there doing nothing?
Matt Cartwright:yeah it's the same with ai is like in this example. I'm not saying there isn't a way that ai is having a negative effect, but in this example it's using ai to do stuff for you. Of course, that means you're not stimulating your brain. I mean that is one of the reasons why you know people, a lot of people, when they retire and they don't have anything to do, decline very rapidly because they don't have that kind of stimulation, whereas people who retire and do lots of stuff and you keep their memory going, you know they maintain a different level.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, and so the problem really is like how do you motivate kids? Because with I mean a lot if you're talking about learning.
Jimmy Rhodes:You're talking about kids, right, and so, yeah, kids will take the lazy option, take the easy way out not all of them, but but quite a lot of them. I would have done when I was a kid. And so how do you, how do you then find a better way to test and stretch and motivate children, like kids, to use ai, to like, develop themselves and learn and become interested in subjects, rather than just like how do I?
Matt Cartwright:pass my test and I'm going sort of super, super optimistic on this, which is quite interesting.
Matt Cartwright:But, um, like this is a way in which, like this idea of kind of personalized learning is okay. You could kind of do this with the internet. So I'm not saying this completely new, but with ai it takes it to another level that if you're really, really interested in one particular thing, like you said as a kid, you can sit home and use ai to help make you an expert in a particular area. You don't have to waste your time around things that you you know that you don't want to learn. Now it's a bit different in school or whatever the system, that you have to be taught certain things and you won't get a complete choice in it, but in your spare time you can really kind of focus in on the things that you want to be able to do and ai can help you in that way, but yeah, um, this is not to say it's not there aren't ways in which it's it's destroying people's intellect and it can, but it's it's about the person, it's about the individual.
Jimmy Rhodes:It's not about ai as such but yeah, and applied the right way, you can have a class of 31 kids. I don't know why I picked 31, but you can have a class of 31 kids and like the top five percent of those kids who normally would be not very intellectually challenged because they're, like the class is going along at the average middle pace. They can be like you can have them on gpt, like learning extra stuff, like picking extra stuff up, um, and the kids that are struggling at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Matt Cartwright:They can be getting extra support from to help them understand the bits, so like I I don't like if applied in the right way.
Jimmy Rhodes:I just don't see how this is not a win-win situation.
Matt Cartwright:I appreciate that's very idealistic and not straightforward, but this article's nonsense I think we should move on before we uh, before we jump off this optimistic cliff that we're currently on.
Jimmy Rhodes:I know I'm very excited.
Matt Cartwright:Right, crashing back down to earth off that optimistic cliff that we were perched on the edge of. Jimmy, you're going to talk about Disney and Universal suing I put suing AI. I don't think they're suing AI in general. I think they must be suing a particular company.
Jimmy Rhodes:Well, it's another. We've had two articles about suing, so yeah, very US centric. We should do some UK stuff sometime, but yeah.
Matt Cartwright:There isn't any UK stuff. Oh, actually no, I'm going to come in in a minute with a UK thing.
Jimmy Rhodes:Okay, I look forward to it. Um, so this is about, I mean, this is, I don't know like I'm. I have really mixed feelings about this, but basically this is about disney and universal suing mid journey. Uh, suing mid journey, the platform, because they just say who mid journey.
Jimmy Rhodes:Oh no, yeah, so mid journey is a really high quality image generation service using diffusion um, stable, diffusion type image generation. It's been around for quite a long time. It's open source actually, um, or it's based on open source technology, uh, but mid journey, mid journey have monetized it, uh, and what they do is you can go on discord and you can generate images and they're really really high quality. Uh, unfortunately for them, a lot of people have been using their platform, naughty naughty to generate pictures of things like yoda and darth vader and all sorts of sordid things that they might get up to if, like you, weren't in the star wars universe. Um, I think they've also been generating stuff from frozen basically anything that's in the Star Wars universe. I think they've also been generating stuff from Frozen Basically anything that's in the Disney franchise, which is basically anything that's a cartoon these days, and most comic books. People have been making their own fun versions on Midjourney, and Disney feel horrendously offended by this. Is it Disney-owned Universal or is it like Disney and and universal they're ganging up?
Matt Cartwright:no, I think they're separate because disney and universal like universal studios and disneyland are the two big things, aren't they?
Jimmy Rhodes:so they're I think they're literally the opposite. They're both, but they're not literally the opposite the opposite
Matt Cartwright:of disney is I don't know what the opposite of disney is um it's shakespeare.
Jimmy Rhodes:What's the?
Matt Cartwright:opposite of universal, uh universal no, universal, yeah.
Jimmy Rhodes:So anyway, they're both suing, looking to sue mid journey, and this is a really big deal. Like I the reason. So on the one hand, I'm like, well, I don't see how they've got a cat in hell's chance of winning. Frankly, because, in the same way that youtube and facebook and all these other companies big tech companies have made managed to make the argument that they're a platform. Frankly, because, in the same way that YouTube and Facebook and all these other companies, big tech companies have managed to make the argument that they're a platform and so they're not responsible for what people do on that platform. So I see Midjourney as the same thing. Now, that's not to say that they will or won't win, but I think it will be a very, very sad day if Disney and disney and mid-journey and sorry universal you hate copyright, don't you, jimmy?
Jimmy Rhodes:I hate copyright. Well, do you know why I hate copyright? Because disney have abused it massively. They've extended copyright, and extended copyright and copyright used to be a thing where it was like you got 20 years, a bit like a patent. You got 20 years of free rain, you could have mickey mouse, you could have whatever, and then after that, people can iterate on it and people can create new ideas based on it. And I think that is fundamental to like um, what's the word? Like creativity, and to inspiration or the rest of it. And if you just have to look at the way cinema's gone these days, to be like well, yeah, yeah, I don't think many people would disagree with you on this impossible 12.
Jimmy Rhodes:That never used to be a thing.
Matt Cartwright:And, and I don't know, marvel avengers 53 is a film that's not a marvel film. It's like, oh, it's a new film, it's not marvel.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah exactly so. Like, like the copyright law. Copyright law has a place, but it's gone too far and, in my opinion, it stifles creativity, and I think this is just the same thing. Right, most of the stuff that people are creating on mid journey is not to monetize it's. I mean, some of it they put on instagram and stuff like that and have a bit of fun with it, but I think the vast mass majority is just like. I want to create a, you know image of darth vader, as if they were, you know, mother theresa it's not I.
Matt Cartwright:I like on on the kind of main point. I do agree with you. Where I do disagree I think there is a like when you're saying they've got, they've not got, a kind of you know cat in hell's chance of winning. I'm not sure, just because I think if you, you know, let's say this went up to a really senior I mean it's not gonna go to supreme court, but let's say it goes up to a you know, a really senior court I just wonder whether this is an example of where, like, law setters could use this as a kind of example of there is enough concern around ai and enough concern about like stifling creativity that this becomes kind of you know, just because it happens to be the right time in the right place, it becomes the example where they use it to kind of set a law because they're like, oh yeah, exactly a precedent, because it's like we can't just let everything be okay for ai to do. And I don't think that means, you know, it doesn't mean prosecuting you know, the teenager who's been creating something at home, but it is about sort of prosecuting because with social media we made that mistake and I think both of us view that with a lot of you know the problems with AI is we're in danger of making all the same mistakes again. You know, the problems with AI is we're in danger of making all the same mistakes again, but actually the more awareness there is of that and like we can't make this again, that maybe some of these things have to happen, just as a way to kind of you know it's.
Matt Cartwright:Maybe this is not the best example, maybe this is not where it should happen, but it just is the right time in the right place. And this becomes the one where someone in a position of authority and leadership, in kind of lawmakers, decides this is the one where they're going to actually rule in favor. Um, I don't know, I don't think that necessarily happens, but I think that is the reason why I think this actually could be, um, even a bigger deal than I think we we think at the moment. Like this, this just seems to be a sort of example of somebody suing somebody, but maybe this is the one that actually creates a precedent so, and to be fair, like I use, we both use suno and suno is always from the beginning.
Jimmy Rhodes:I don't know what mid journey do, but suno has always been very careful you can't be like any artist names, can you? Yeah, if you say, make me a song in the style of the killers, it'll be like sorry, but I can't help you with that. Like it's very, I think it'll make you a song in the style of the killers.
Matt Cartwright:But you have to come up with. Make me a song in like between 2005 and 2011 style.
Jimmy Rhodes:American las vegas glam rock exactly you have to come up with a really good prompt that describes exactly what the killers are and pins it down, and then it'll probably generate you something that's kind of similar, but but they're careful to just avoid that um clear distinction, whereas I think with mid journey, if you say you know, make me an image of a darth vader, it'll oblige. So maybe that's where the difference is. Um and mid journey are charging for it as well, so maybe that's where it is. There's there's a couple of things here. There's a couple of points I want to make. So, even if mid journey lose and even if they get sued for this, what you're going to end up with is a situation where you can't do this with any of the mainstream ais but, you'll be able to get an open source, stable diffusion model I was about to say that, yeah, I, I know where you're going.
Jimmy Rhodes:It's going to be more difficult and more niche, and so less people will be doing it. And so do they care? Possibly not in the same way. They've sued the pirate bay out of existence. So you know, do they care if a few people are copying? Stuff anymore so I sort of see that side of it as well, but you're not going to stop this.
Matt Cartwright:I was just saying the same with suno and music generation is with. With suno they'll have this, but it won't be long until you get an open source. You know, music generation, large language model. You can just stick on your laptop, your ipad, whatever, and just create your music. And actually, once it's open source, how can anyone do anything? I want to just give an example. I said I'd have a uk example, so I've put down here elton john versus the uk government over ai copyright laws. So I just remembered this when you were um, when you were talking about suing, I just thought didn't elton john sue someone? Well, he hasn't sued anybody, um, but he said he wants to. He's accused the British government of committing theft by proposing that tech firms could train AI models on the UK's music and creative output without guaranteeing proper compensation. So he has slammed AI copyright planners criminal theft of creative work and called the government absolute losers and said he felt incredibly betrayed over the proposed copyright changes.
Matt Cartwright:I don't know where this has gone or if it's gone anywhere.
Jimmy Rhodes:Do we need to start saying allegedly in anything that we do? I don't know.
Matt Cartwright:Well, no, Elton John said it. We didn't say it happened and he didn't allegedly say he definitely said it. Oh okay, fair enough, said it okay? Um, if you said it we'd have to say allegedly, but as we're quoting what aunt jonna said, we don't need to say allegedly, that's all right then I'm just checking.
Jimmy Rhodes:I mean I'm not a lawyer, um, you know, I mean I I like this is where we've talked about it before I don't think that, like any of the ai generated music will have really the remotest diff, make the most remotest difference on artists like genuinely artistic stuff in a way, like I think I think what it will make a difference to is the sort of low-hanging fruit so stuff that's, I guess, like dance music and things like that. You know, are people still going to listen to handcrafted dance music? I think they'll still listen to bands and I think that's not I was making dance music in 1999 and it wasn't handcrafted.
Matt Cartwright:Then it was using using a piece of software where I drag things into different places yeah, yeah, it's not now I just don't need to drag things anymore and this is not to undermine edm, because you know, we're both big fans of avia.
Matt Cartwright:That's what we grew up with. But, like the process of creating, it is not. There's a creative process behind it, but actually it's not like playing an instrument. You're. It's already been something where you were, you were layering together samples which, frankly, were like, most of the time, samples taken from something else, right?
Jimmy Rhodes:yeah, but there's a skill, there's a skill involved in it, but what I'm saying is like the the process of of creating dance music.
Jimmy Rhodes:Like you're just automating that process with with music that's played on instruments, you're literally taking away that playing of the instrument yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess where I was trying to go with this is I feel like there's a bit more of a. I feel like there's a bit more of a threat to the creative edm composer, sure um, than there is to like bands, because bands like people are still going to go and see bands live.
Matt Cartwright:If anything, this might kind of even make that we're talking about that recently, that we think it will perhaps make live music even in any place that you can see humans performing creatively to make it even more yeah, more like special.
Jimmy Rhodes:More of an experience. More of an experience, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So what was the point anyway that we were talking about? Elton John doesn't like what the UK government are doing and he's made nasty comments at them. He's just stuck in the past, isn't he? Okay? I'm gonna reluctantly talk about this because I think this has happened about 10 times in the last 12 months, but apparently sam altman's declared that the ai singularity has begun. We're, um, we're at the start of the gentle singularity. Uh, this is Sam Alton speaking, obviously.
Matt Cartwright:Allegedly, allegedly.
Jimmy Rhodes:We are past the event horizon, the takeoff has started and humanity is close to building digital super intelligence. I mean, what a load of waffle. I'll be honest, I don't know where you got this from and why you're making me read it, but he said this like half a dozen times over the last six months, hasn't he?
Matt Cartwright:well, I mean, this is, this is not what he does like spins nonsense, so that open ai can continue to make, which is which is why I've said many, many times in here I think he's a devil, because he might not be a devil he might just be an ai more on that next week.
Matt Cartwright:Allegedly he's the devil he may or may not be, but allegedly he is no. But yeah, exactly, I mean it's just. But this is like why I hate him so much is it's this just complete lack of authenticity, this lack of any sort of morals? You know, he talks about how, you know how important safety is, and he talks about the risks, but then he does absolutely fuck all about it. Yeah, you've got these examples of him talking about. You know, humanity is close to building digital superintelligence. What's close mean? When you haven't even claimed AGI yet? We're past the event horizon, the take of a start. Is this a soft takeoff?
Matt Cartwright:the hard takeoff he's edging us, so like a little bit more detail on it. He predicts that 2025 is seeing agents do real cognitive work, 2026 will see systems figuring out novel insights and 2027 may bring robots capable of real world tasks. I don't disagree with any of those things. None of those things, to me, suggest that we're in the gentle singularity. None of them suggest that we're past the event horizon or that the hard takeover started. Um, it's just yeah and it's not. It's not bizarre weight, it's just. It's just nonsense. Like it's just. It's not even nonsense, it's just pointless. It's just meaningless, it's just a load of words.
Matt Cartwright:They haven't even knocked out gpt5 yet maybe that's why I just keep distracting us from this long decimal points gpt5 yeah, I've got one of the one of the just little um nugget to finish this off, which is a china related one. So, um, I don't know how much you know about this chinese startup, minimax.
Jimmy Rhodes:No no, no, no, I've heard of DeepSeek. So Minimax like they Sounds like the opposite.
Matt Cartwright:Well, minimax is really cool, Like I don't know who set them up, I mean, like it's never that transparent anyway, but they're supposed to be a startup Like they, again, like DeepSeek, although DeepSeek didn't come from nothing Like the. But they're, they're supposed to be a startup like they again, like deep sea, although deep sea didn't come from nothing, like the. Well, brothers were like actually around for quite a while, but minimax, I heard about this two or three months ago. I heard about them, I think maybe christy loke actually mentioned them. Um, so they're not completely unknown, but they've debuted this m1 model which they say matches the leading western models. I'm sure not the very, very best frontier, but you know the likes of kind of llama. Um, maybe some of the maybe sort of like, I don't know, gpt 4.5, but it cost apparently 500 000 to train, so 200 times less than gpt 4 yeah, if that's true, it's amazing.
Jimmy Rhodes:What so? Like they're saying gpt 4 is 10 million or 100 million, 100 million, 100 million that's expensive.
Matt Cartwright:It's pretty amazing anyway, I mean, this is one of those things.
Matt Cartwright:It's. It's kind of irrelevant to most people, but like this driving down of the cost of models, it's the thing that we saw with deep seek in china. It is the thing that, like, china does seem to excel at these, and I was, um, I was speaking at an event on ai recently and I was talking to a few entrepreneurs that were there and kind of investors in AI and they were all talking about like the reduction in costs and how this was kind of driving stuff down and every single one of them, every single one had been using other models and every single one had switched to DeepSeek in the last three or four months and they were all like using DeepSeek has just made it possible because of the cost. So, you know, although we think of this as not this kind of interesting and amazing story, actually in terms of, in terms of real world impact and how this is kind of, you know, for small startups and businesses to be able to like be powered by ai yeah, this stuff is massively important.
Matt Cartwright:You also had an mwc shanghai. You had huawei outlining its new strategy for an intelligent world powered by ai. So that's got 5.5g um I think we'll talk about 5g in the next episode no green infrastructure and basically their, their chips which, as we've mentioned, I think, before, driven by kind of us um chip restrictions. Huawei which, let's be honest, huawei is essentially the chinese. You know, the tech arm of the chinese state has developed these like incredible chip restrictions. Huawei which, let's be honest, huawei is essentially the Chinese. You know, the tech arm of the Chinese state has developed these like incredible kind of chips that are. You know, it's not so much that they're better, they're not as better than Nvidia's chips.
Jimmy Rhodes:They are more efficient but it's just.
Matt Cartwright:It's just. Burger King had the best chips. Didn't have the crispy ones. If they're fresh, mcdonald's chips, definitely any day of the week. Actually, fries, fries. Sorry, most of our listeners are american. Yeah, but yeah, they've got. Anyway. Huawei, have got these microchips um, which are even smaller. Really good. Should we leave it there?
Jimmy Rhodes:no, no. So I, I, I don't think we should leave it there Like watch out for China.
Matt Cartwright:Like you know, china Jimmy, you're very passionate today.
Jimmy Rhodes:No, but they've been squeezed hard, haven't they? And what they're doing is knocking out models that are Squeezed hard, knocking out.
Matt Cartwright:You are getting very passionate. I am. But they're producing models that are A little bit saucy at the end of today's episode. They're producing like two, something like 200 times less it's incredible like more efficient effectively than gbt4, which we're talking about, a model.
Jimmy Rhodes:What gbt4 is like 18 months ago now, yeah yeah, totally, and so, like you, like, I think this is the weird thing is like they've china has become a real innovator, and not just in the ai space in general, uh, and things like this kind of pushed them harder in that direction and and and it has. They have become a real innovator in a whole bunch of stuff. And so, you know, I think the West does need to sort of really keep an eye on it, but not in the way that it's like a threat necessarily, because a lot of this stuff ends up being open source and then the West can benefit from it as well, but it's it's. It's reducing the infrastructure requirements and cost significantly, and so it's really disrupting things in terms of, like the, the idea, you know, I mean I think Trump was talking about $5 trillion of investment in AI and tech um, you know, know, not that long ago, at the start of his presidency.
Matt Cartwright:Stuff like this undermines that massively I just want to finish on sennachi about, about china. Now, I hadn't planned to say this, um, but on the back of what you just said, I think you know we've said a number of times on this podcast, like you know, when we sort of revealed that we are both based in china um, yeah, we're not here to kind of you know it's not for for us to kind of have this sort of chinese propaganda narrative or to tell you about how everything is great in china and, you know, to be able to take a position on the kind of us china. But what I think we do want to do is explain what it's actually like here, because the way that china is perceived and portrayed in western media it's dismissed. You know it's. Yeah, it's actually like here, because the way that china is perceived and portrayed in western media it's dismissed. You know it's. Yeah, it's not. It's not the fact that it's portrayed as being good or bad and it's not that kind of like the communist party, etc. Etc. It's the way that they still haven't acknowledged the way in which china innovates, like china copied stuff, like that's absolutely. You know, we know that that happened and we know that, that that it probably continues to happen. But the innovation that happens here like for me, there's more innovation here than anywhere else. There's more innovation than there is in China Like everything is they're trying to do things different ways.
Matt Cartwright:And if you even look at the kind of government level, what they do is they will choose, like a province, or they will choose an industry, and then they will encourage this like insane level of competition between provinces or between cities or between you know these kind of soes, so that one of them emerges victorious. And this is when we're talking earlier about the kind of the way in the us it's all about kind of suing each other. In china they don't sue each other, so you don't have that kind of complexity. It's just literally like you. Just it's like a kind of fight. You just throw everyone in the ring together and one emerges as a superior one and that's your kind of superhuman. That's the way in which that kind of innovation takes place.
Matt Cartwright:You know these tech companies, the way that they compete.
Matt Cartwright:It's like it's merciless, like the hours that people work, you know, and the way that they're trying to like battle, the pressure that they're under, the kind of adversity that they face, like whether you like china or not is irrelevant.
Matt Cartwright:It's just that it's not that china is just this kind of you know the bad guy that's just kind of copying the us and trying to keep up with it's like it's doing things in its own way. There's equally, if not often, much more innovative and, like I always said, like people need to acknowledge that, whether they like it or not, because that's just the truth and they are you know the relationship China has with other countries. Like they're going to roll this stuff out because one it's cheaper. So like, for example, deepseat we're talking about, it will be much easier for and cheaper for a lot of businesses and a lot of countries to use. But also they will encourage it and they will kind of support and maybe even subsidize its use because it helps them to build those connections and it helps them to grow the kind of power of the Chinese state.
Jimmy Rhodes:Yeah, exactly, and whether you think it's dangerous or not, or whether you just think it's interesting, I think there needs to be more awareness about it, which is what we're talking about.
Matt Cartwright:Right, so let's wrap up. We've finally managed to do an episode in under an hour, so should we make a six minute song so that people still have to listen for an hour?
Jimmy Rhodes:well, I think I can knock out, yeah, five minutes and five seconds using the new Suno.
Matt Cartwright:Yeah, well, thanks everyone for listening and oh, we haven't said this for a while, but we're on another recruitment campaign for people to listen to the podcast. So if you enjoyed this, then uh, send it on to three friends. If you didn't enjoy it, send it on to three people.
Jimmy Rhodes:You hate, but, um, get three people to listen I would be amazed if you got this far, but yeah, incredible they say the robot's gonna take our brains away.
Reggae Bot:But I tell you now, it's not that way. It's not the machine that makes you slow, it's how you choose to let your thinking go. The AI there to help you learn and grow. But if you sit back, let your mind flow low. Don't blame the tool for what you don't do. The laziness inside is up to you. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Don't let your thoughts get stuck in the middle. Hey, I can lift you up so high, but only if you're willing to try. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Use the tool to solve the riddle.
Reggae Bot:Some people fear the thinking machine, say it's the worst thing they've ever seen. But knowledge flowing like a river wide Can make you stronger. If you don't hide the computer, calculate the human dream. Together we can build a better scene. Don't let the helper make you weak. Use it to find what you truly seek. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Don't let your thoughts get stuck in the middle. Hey, I can lift you up so high, but only if you're willing to try. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Use the tool to solve the riddle.
Reggae Bot:Exercise your brain like your body's strong. Keep your neurons firing all day long. The artificial mind can show the way, but your natural wisdom's here to stay. Ask the questions, dig deep down. Don't let technology make you frown. Partnership is the key. You see, human plus machine. That's how we're free. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Don't let your thoughts get stuck in the middle. I can lift you up so high, but only if you're willing to try. Don't let your mind go idle, idle. Keep your consciousness vital, vital Bye, thank you. We are now at Upper Session Road. Exercise your brain like your body's strong. Keep your neurons firing all day long. The artificial mind can show the way, but your natural wisdom's here to stay. Ask the questions, dig deep down. Don't let technology make you frown. Partnership is the key. You see, human plus machine. That's how we're free. Don't let your mind go.
