We Recover Loudly – Personal Recovery and Mental Health Stories

S3 Episode 03 Neil Hudson-Basing Recovering Loudly … People-Pleasing, Neurodivergence, and the Freedom of Sobriety

• Shell Righini • Season 3 • Episode 3

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In this powerful new episode of We Recover Loudly, host Shell is joined by Neil Hudson Basing.  Neil is a mental health advocate, Pause and Rewind podcast host, and co-founder of House of Happiness, a regular sober event redefining alcohol-free joy.

Together, they explore what sober living without addiction looks like, diving into the impact of neurodivergence, burnout, and people-pleasing on mental health. Neil shares his experience navigating life as a queer, neurodivergent person in recovery, and how choosing sobriety wasn’t about rock bottomfor him.  Rather it was about wanting radical self-connection.

From challenging the myth that sobriety is boring to building joyful, inclusive spaces without alcohol, this conversation is full of truth, laughter, and powerful takeaways about identity, boundaries, and reclaiming your joy.

Whether you’re sober-curious, navigating mental exhaustion, or looking to build community without alcohol, this episode will leave you feeling seen, validated, and inspired.

To connect with Neil : 

@neilhudsonbasing @houseofhappinessofficial

For more information on We Recover Loudly and to reach out for speaking engagements or support email hello@werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly
www.werecoverloudly.com



Shell: Hello, and welcome to this new episode of We Recover Loudly. Today I'm joined by the brilliant Neil Hudson Basin, um, of the House of Happiness. Neil is one of the co-founders of London's Ultimate Sun Sober Party, but you are also heading to Manchester.

So we can't just say London anymore, can we? Um, he has also written for Lno Drinker Magazine as of I, um, he has his own successful podcast called Pause and Rewind. And you know, Neil is just a living, breathing example of how when you share your story openly and unapologetically, um, you know, your journey can be so impactful to others in such a positive way.

And I'm really excited to have him here today. Welcome, Neil. 

Neil: Thank you so much. What a, what a super kind intro. Thank you so much. It's pleasure to be here. I'm always grateful to be asked to come and have a chat. Um, and I was thinking about this in the terms of, you know, people like us who do podcasts and this whole like, oh, you must like the sound of your own voice.

And it's like, it's, that's actually not anything to be ashamed of. And I think you, the word you use, I, when you use unapologetically, if you have a story, if you have something to say. Fucking say it like, you know, and if, and, and if your content is not for everyone, that's totally cool. If you're not interested, don't fucking listen.

But actually a lot of people do want to listen 'cause our stories are valid. 

Shell: And, and I think that's again, you know, like we're going straight into the deep stuff. There's gonna be no childhood stories from you and I today. We're going straight in. I think that's why it's so powerful to have such a variety of voices within this space and such a variety of stories, you know, because at the end of the day, we might all meet.

We might all meet on the dance floor in the same way, but the way and our journeys that get us there are completely different. And I think that certainly for myself, you know, like I don't necessarily identify with a lot of the sober ideal. Oh, that's, is that a, is that a word? Am I inventing a word? Sober idealization.

We'll go with that. It works. Um, you know, the image of a sober person being very, um, very, uh, very good, very wholesome, very, um, together very, all of that. And I. That's one of the reasons I absolutely love the House of Happiness. Not that you're not wholesome, of course, Neil. I have my 

Neil: moments. I have my moments.

Life is a lot. Life is a lot more wholesome now. Um, but that doesn't mean that it can't be chaotic. I am me, um, and you are you. Um, and it doesn't mean that I can't be destructive, and it certainly doesn't mean that I can't be an asshole sometimes. But I think it's really important to acknowledge the fact that, um, our version of sober.

Look, our, our understanding of what sober means has changed massively. And I'll just give you a little bit of insight to this for so many years. Um, and I share this with Janie, who is co-founder of the House Happiness. We actually never used the word sober to describe ourselves because it really didn't resonate with me.

Mm. I didn't feel entirely comfortable using the word. We actually use the term alcohol free for quite a long time. It was easy in the sense of House of Happiness does what it says on the tin sober, but in terms of ourself and, and how we felt, kind of felt a little bit like trepidation of using that word.

Mm-hmm. And I guess it's a bit similar with the word recovery, right? And I even checked in with you when agreeing to this podcast of like, am I not stepping into an area that I don't feel I belong? I'm always really mindful of, of language and terminology and spaces that, um, that, that are not for me. And so I've been through, you know, in the, in the six years that I have been sober, a bit of an evolution in terms of my own comfortability around that word.

Um, and, and now I own it and I'm really, really proud to, to call myself sober. And so, just because I don't have a recovery or addiction story and background, you know, I very much kind of say, well, I guess problematic debates around the, the term problem drinking and problematic aside, whatever. Mm-hmm. A fine line.

Um, but. Our understanding much like, much like language and terminology changes over time and our, our understanding of, you know, whether it's, um, sexuality, gender identity, whatever, um, our understanding, um, and views on sobriety changes. And so I don't think that any one group gets to determine how the word sober is used.

Shell: Yeah, absolutely. And I think again, it's that fluidity of acceptance and connection versus you are not in our camp. You are not in our camp. And you know, that's exactly the opposite of what you are trying to do. I think when you are coming, doing something, you know, really against the grain, against, you know, the rest of society by putting down the alcohol and.

I think it's so important for stories like yourself to say, it's not always about rock bottom, and it's not always about addiction. You know, recovery. You can recover from anything. And yeah. One of the things I always ask guests, um, is, uh, what, what do you consider yourself recovered from? And you've put, and I totally agree with this, people pleasing, burnout, overwhelmed, prioritizing others. You know, I mean, talk to me about people pleasing, you know, how did that used to show up for you?

Neil: I think I, uh, was always just someone that put other people first and very much kind of, didn't, wasn't able to tap into no. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't something I felt comfortable saying. Um, I'd always bend over backwards for other people. I'd always be worried that people wouldn't like me if I didn't go to this or say yes to this.

And I guess that all of this feeds into, uh, my sober journey, um, and, and, and recovering from many of those areas and all of them feed into each other. And you, you touched on rock bottom, right. And I don't think that I. Had a rock bottom. I've had shit loads of rock bottoms. Um, and, um, right. Yeah. And, and my, and um, my recent burnout back in 20, back in 2023, was a massive rock bottom for me.

And that happened during my sobriety, you know what I mean? So it is, it's, it's a process and it's not a linear thing. It's not a once and done kind of thing either. But I think all of those things are so much more manageable now. With being sober, with having the clarity and the capacity to deal with those instances so much better.

But within, within my sober journey has come such a story of, um, I, I pride myself on my self awareness. I've always been quite a self aware person, being able to communicate where I stand on things, but never the way I do now. And part of my self-awareness is knowing. Um, so knowing myself so much better and what I need, and within that, being able to say no.

Being able to know what I need, what my boundaries are, what is negotiable versus what I am prepared to compromise and flex on, right? So for me, um, I know that when I hit burnout. I had was so stretched and we, we, you talk about this a lot in the hospitality and, and working in event management and having been in that industry for 20 years.

Mm. It is one of the most stressful careers as well alongside hospitality. Um. I had neglected the things that I needed. So I'd neglected my me time. I'd neglected my physical exercise, which I rely on, which if you look back to little nil who was scared of pe, um, you would never think that I would be that person that needs that now.

Um, and actually from that experience of burnout, which was quite severe, um. I'm not gonna name the organization that, um, that it resulted from. Please just check my LinkedIn, um, for 2023. Um, and, um, and so my, my experience of that was actually I let all those important things slide. I let community slide, I let my exercise slide, and I, all of those things accumulated in this.

Monumentous crash and I didn't recognize myself and it took me quite a while to recover from that. A good six months. Um, I'd say there are still moments where I'm triggered by thinking back to those moments. Um, but my gosh, I can't even think of how I would've got through it back in the day when I was taking drugs and drinking.

Shell: Yeah, I mean, burnout is something that. Myself included, to throw the term around, oh, I'm feeling really burnt out today. And, and in fairness, I'm not kind of coming at people going like, how dare you use that term in that way. You know, it's, it is a word. It's fine. You know, I, I, it is, um, it's, you know, it's part of conversational terms.

However, it, when you've really experienced it, it is something that is only another who's experienced it can really understand. And, you know, for me, the, the, the symptom that actually really hits. Probably the hardest and is the one that creeps back in. And um, and I also just last year, so what were you 24?

Um, started to really struggle with perimenopause symptoms and I've, um, also solo business owner, you know, the stresses and the pressures of that and. No longer being in hospitality. And I didn't realize how much identity and worth for me was tied up into my position within hospitality. Mm-hmm. And suddenly not having firstly perimenopause.

So as a female, I felt that I wasn't a woman anymore like that, you know? Uh. And I don't mean to offend anyone listening, but for, for me, this is where my brain went. It's like, well, you can't have children anymore, so you are just worthless. Right? You, you don't have to anymore to society. You know, you, you, you are, you are, we can throw you away.

Um, I don't think that anymore, by the way. Um, and then I had the lack of identity with a, a workplace. You know, I don't have that. Permanence and the burnout from that because it's that lack of that community, that lack of feeling seen and present. Yeah. I don't think people realize is such a symptom. Is that something that you also experienced?

Neil: Um, absolutely. Um, but I don't want, I, what I, what I don't wanna brush over very quickly is your experience with the perimenopause. Okay. So as, as a, as someone's working in events. Um, I have, I am someone that considers myself a really proud feminist and I really like to show my male allyship. So hosted loads of events and done loads of research and stuff around menopause, and that feelings of worthlessness is such a common, I.

A common thing for those that that experience menopause. Um, and so I don't wanna just over that because it, it does, it really affects how those experienced menopause feel about their self-esteem, their self-worth, and what they bring. Um, I've heard similar term, similar terms from Women's Center, felt like I belong on the trash heap.

I feel like I'm no good to anyone. So, yeah. I think it's really important to recognize that, and there's lots of work being done to help those, experiencing the men menopause. Reframe the narrative around that, right? Yeah. 'cause it's a, it is a massive shift and change in life, um, as is bouncing back from anything, right.

Whether it's physical and mental. And certainly with my own experience of burnout. And even now, like if I take, if I take a few days off exercise or if I have one of my days where nothing's happening, right? My value is tied so much to my productivity and output that I will fucking self-flagellate for days if I slip up or if I don't do, if I don't go to the gym for a couple of days, or if I mess up an event.

So when I was experiencing burnout, and even now when I get slight twinges of overwhelm, I very much would recognize burnout again. And I'm, I'm not prepared to go back there. Um, but even when I recognize periods of overwhelm, but certainly during that burnout, burnout, I. Stage of my life, um, I felt useless.

I felt, I felt shit about myself. I felt useless. I felt, um, I had imposter syndrome. I thought, why is anyone hiring me? And, and, you know, all of this was just an accumulation of not looking after myself, of letting things get on top of me, but not having. Um, not being in a supportive workplace as well. Right.

That allow Yeah. Members of staff to go down that spiral. And I've got great friends, I've got great husband family system around me that I couldn't vocalize anything. I could barely speak. I couldn't, I wasn't functioning and therefore I. God, it all fell, it all went inwards. And I would just burst that crying, Michelle.

I'm not an emotional person, but I would just literally like, just start crying for no reason. So yeah, this was, it was really hard to overcome that feelings of, of uselessness. And it still comes in now, you know, you know, with the imposter syndrome. I'm a freelance mc and host as well, and sometimes when I'm up there on stage I'm like, oh my gosh, people, people don't wanna listen to me.

This I'm bombing here. Like, no, you know, no one, no one cares what I've got to say. But it's really important that you overcome that and think like, yes, you've got a voice. Lose it. 

Shell: Oh gosh. Yeah. A hundred percent. And it's spaces like House of Happiness, which I do wanna talk more about, you know, that, that embrace that and really make you feel safe.

But you know, I mean, we have to talk about the fact that you and I are both neurodivergent and the things that we're talking about are massive, um, factors and massive, um, in, you know, there's huge instances of burnout within. Community. I was gonna say, yeah, we are a community in our community. Yeah, for sure.

Um, you know, it starts from very, very young where, you know, especially I don't think it, I think there is still this kind of dialogue where boys are external and girls are internal. But I don't, I, again, I think the more we learn, I think the more we're realizing it's not quite that divide where we do internalize shame and we internalized doubt.

And it's that committee of voices that just never. Stops. You know, I had a conversation with a friend recently and they were saying to me, they were like, oh, you know, I, have I done something to wrong to upset you? And I was like, no, gosh, not at all. And they had said like, well, because you've been quite cold with me.

Now what had happened is that I can't even remember, but I had created this entire scenario in my head that she hated me. Obviously, yeah. Had had a whole party about that in my head. You know, created entire scenarios and all of this, not vocalized any of it, and without meaning to, had obviously started to behave a bit.

Because what do we do? We protect ourselves, we push away and we isolate and we look for the evidence of whatever our head is telling us. And if we look for it, we're gonna find it. 

Neil: Well, you just, you just create it. A 

Shell: hundred percent. And I think that, again, that's something that is us neurodivergent people, you know, it's not just about, oh yeah.

You know, like, don't put us in a bright room, or like, oh, we, you know, give us our loop ear plugs and stuff like that. It's so much more complex. I mean, how long have you been navigating, I mean, we're all, we born neurodivergent, but when were you diagnosed? 

Neil: So I'm not diagnosed and, and I'm kind of, I'm at a point where I'm just, I'm assuming, and I'm pretty secure in my own knowledge that I, um, celebr that am on the neuro divergent spectrum with a DHD.

Mm-hmm. And it's, it's actually in the last few years of some, someone said to me, someone that's known me a very long time just said it to me and she was, she was very much talking around them. A sense of obsessive compulsiveness. Mm-hmm. And some of my, like, exhibiting behaviors, and it got me when she said it, it got me really, really curious.

And then obviously went into a deep dive like many of us do, um, when your head allows it, because sometimes like hyper focus, paying attention. Yeah. Um, and it all just started to make sense. It started to make sense in terms of. How, how absolutely fixated I can become on things, on people, on projects, but then literally within the click of the finger, I'm over it.

It's out my mind, it's gone. It got me thinking about my relationships and the fact that I, you know, struggled to maintain friendships for so many years and went through cycles of cycles of friends. Mm-hmm. It got me looking at my mom and dad's behavior. It got me thinking about all these things, things I struggled with in school, you know, I was quite a bright kid.

But I would really struggle, right? With homework. I'd leave it till the last minute. But because I wasn't a typical naughty kid and I wasn't, wasn't that disruptive? My, my bro, my slightly younger brother was I that I was overlooked. And I think we know so much more now when it comes to it. Um, and things like the how harsh I am on myself, um, when I, again, going back to when I get things wrong, when I mess up, when I lose something, oh my God, I could lose a glove.

It would literally take a glove. And it will be the end of the world, right? Like, and I would call, I always, I often joke about this, you know, call him, I call myself a stupid bitch 72 times a day, you know, and, and I really, really trying to work on that and be, be kinder to myself and actually understanding Neurodivergence.

Um, and I don't care what a diagnosis at this point says, because, you know, it can be unreliable. I know everyone says, oh, we're all a bit on the spectrum. Don't, I don't believe that. But just with listening to other people who share their experiences and stuff, I've been able to tap into a little bit more kindness in myself.

So I might still call myself a stupid bitch of 72 times a day, but, uh, I don't linger on it and self-flagellate the way that I did. Um, I am able to show myself a little bit more, uh, grace and empathy and within and within that it's enabled me to therefore. Have that for others as well, when they're being a bit chaotic when they mess up.

And again, clarity, capacity that comes with sobriety. It all feeds into each other. And I do think that years, years of my destructive, chaotic behavior around drinking drugs certainly masked so, so much. Yeah. And more and more research and and stories are coming out around other people that are in that same position.

Shell: I mean, it's, it's a massive factor again, you know, because of there being more diagnoses. These statistics aren't, are changing all the time, but, you know, I've read studies that have said as many as one in two people who are neurodivergent will struggle with an addiction at some point in their life. You know, and it, it does feel that it comes very hand in hand.

And you know, for me, alcohol was the thing that turned my brain off at night. So that committee that's in my head making up scenarios about the reason my friend hates it, hates me. It would be the same. I'd get back from work, you know, I'm a piece of shit. Everything I've done is wrong. My family hates me, my friends, what friends?

I've got no friends. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna die alone. 'cause that's always where it ends up. And, and again, like you, it can be the smallest thing. The smallest thing can go wrong, but my brain will spiral too. And then I die alone. Yeah. And you're like, it 

Neil: is. We just react and we, because we don't, there's no gauge and there's no, there's no emotional gauge.

Uh, it's just a flip from zero to to a hundred. Yeah. Um, there's justice sensitivity to consider. I'm a Libra on top of that, so fairness is really important to me. So when you add that with, with A DHD, then oh my gosh, the world is a fucking shit place. Um, and, and it really is an emotional. Rollercoaster. Um, you know, I've had coaching over the years of counseling over the years and one of the biggest issues with me and coming and having two parents that were very, that are, um, one of them I don't speak to, uh, two parents that are very ill tempered is, uh, reaction reacting.

Um, and I've worked really hard over the years on responding versus reacting. It's something that appears on every vision board and my vision board is up there. It's something that appears on every vision board. It's something I've got written down. It's something that I really try and tap into with so many situations.

I. I don't always get it right. Like I said, I might be sober, but I can still be an asshole. Um, but it is something that I recognize and it's something that I want to improve. And hey, I think there are some character flaws and defects and quirk that you might wanna work on and you commit to working on.

And you, you, you know, for me, I don't want to be my mother, so I'm determined not to be so reactive versus respond and, and dealing with the that and, and conquering that. Might be a lifelong thing, but it's something that I'm committed to. But other things, Hey, you learn to accept. I've learned to accept that I'm really chaotic and that's okay.

I'm all right with it. 

Shell: Well, that's it. And, and again, you know, like it's not always about us having to change, like you say, it's about accepting, embracing, yeah. Putting in things that make life a little bit easier if it helps and Yeah. You know, like I think that it's that power, isn't it? It's that they always talk about between that, you know, the, the reacting and the responding.

It's the silence in between, which is where you get your power. And you know, I've done a 12 step program and there are many ways of getting sober and. You know, which for me, that was what I did. The reason that I bring it up is, you know, that's something that I did take and learn a lot about from that is about learning about my own reactivity and is about learning about that powerful pause where I can just kind of take a moment to think, hang on.

Am I reacting in self? Am I using my ego? Is it my pride that's hurt? Yeah. What's actually going on when somebody is saying something and I'm immediately going, because again. Us neurodivergent people. Any person that's experienced trauma growing up, our immediate reaction because of survival is that fight or flight.

And we're immediate, we freeze up. Yeah. And that's where everything starts to go. And it is really difficult to therefore have that pause because you're in immediately in either freeze mode because you are like, what's coming next? Or fight mode. Because you're like, don't you even think about, you know?

And again, I think that that's something that. We don't talk enough about just the learning of that. 

Neil: There's a lot of untangling and un un and untangling and unlearning. We need to do, I mean, I work in diversity and inclusion. I sit across events and, and DEI. So we talk a lot about unlearning. Um, but it is, it is being able to take that pause and learning when you're not in danger.

And I come from a blame house. I can come from a blame household and my husband will often say to me, if you know something goes wrong, and I'm like, it's your fault. And he is like, there's no one at fault here. It doesn't have to be someone's fault. It's just something that happened and so it, you know, I'm 42 and still unlearning unpicking and, and whether it's a big, a big T trauma or little T trauma, all of those things accumulate in the same way that microaggressions work, right?

It might be a microaggression, but when you add all those things up. Hey, that's gonna manifest somehow and it's probably gonna manifest in a reaction. So being able to tap into those moments. So for me, for tapping into those moments where I want to respond, I. It can be as simple as typing a shitty email and then deleting it and coming back to it later, or it can be taking a physical step back from the situation and leaning against something.

I did this once the first time that I ever managed, and it was a really, a really memorable moment to me. I was losing my shit and I took a physical step back and I lent against the kitchen counter, and I gave it a second, and then I actually just said, I don't care. I, I, I. I was able to tap into what was really, what my, what my authentic emotion was, rather than what the re what rather than what the reaction was telling me it was.

Mm-hmm. And so there are steps that you can take and learn, but it's hard. It's hard to break cycles, right? Yeah. 

Shell: It is, especially I think when you come from different communities as well. You know, you are a member of the queer community as well, sober community, neurodivergent community. I mean, it must sometimes feel that you're always on defense because let's be honest, you've been attacked.

Yeah. You know, over and over and over. So it's very understandable. 

Neil: Yeah. I, I mean, you know, when you, when you grow up queer, when you grow up any, any form of different, you are naturally. You are othered, you're marginalized, you are kind of like, you know, you're targeted and that, and that, and that's broad.

You know, when you think about, you know, intersectionality, you know, it's, it, it affects different people differently. You know, women are impacted by this. So I think you, I think that you are always on the defensive. You are always feeling like you have to justify your value, your worth, your position in society.

Um, and that takes its fucking toll. 

Shell: It really does also, and when you're not loud 

Neil: enough, when you're not loud enough to defend yourself, I've be, I've had to get there. I've had years of bullying. I've had to get there. But when you, when you don't have the voice, when you don't have the confidence, when you don't have the, even, even being able to articulate yourself, you know, Janie always jokes that I'm never more articulate than when I'm mad.

Um, if you don't have any of those things, if you're not able to tap into any of those things, then you'll, you are like a little ex like thing contained, ready to explode. And I've been, yeah, 

Shell: and I think, again, I think that that's also when it's, it's wonderful when you have people like you and I that can do that, but then that's why it's so special, the advocate, the advocating work.

Therefore you then do, for those that. Can't do it for themselves, you know? And that you do create that incredibly safe space, which is House of Happiness for people to go and to feel, you know, I know people that have gone to the house of happiness alone, like that's mad. Like you wouldn't go out, well, you might go out.

You might go out at night on your own. Um, and I was actually, just before I get on that, I just do want to applaud you for your ability to go. I'm going to not wait on a diagnosis. I'm going to put myself first, and I'm actually going to be proactive in finding things that make sense to me, that feel comfortable for me, and that make my life a little bit easier.

Because I think that the sad thing is there is huge waiting lists that are so many hoops for a sort to jump through. And I hear it all the time with people because obviously I go to recovery meetings and they're all bloody undiagnosed. And, and I really, it breaks my heart to think that somebody will be waiting 3, 4, 5 years for a piece of paper that says they're autistic, they're neuro, their, their A DHD, whatever it might be to start putting positive change into their life.

Neil: Yeah. 

Shell: Do it now. 

Neil: Absolutely. Yeah. Do it now and, and, and you don't have to wait for someone to justify how you feel about yourself or what you know is true. Okay. Um, and I think that, um, uh, listen, self-awareness, being able to advocate for myself is a privilege and it's something that I have crafted and it's something that I've learned and I think it's something that other people can do, but it hasn't always come easy because I haven't always had this voice.

I. This loud foghorn voice that everyone hears all the time, because I don't shut up. That's something that I've had to, uh, overcome fear about public speaking, challenge myself, um, particularly in settings around kind of like, whether it's a medical setting. I remember used to go to the hairdressers and um, I was quite a shy kid, you know, but even up until my kind of thirties, I'd go to the hairdressers and if I wasn't happy, I'd just be like, yeah, it's fine.

Right. And you just, I'm 

Shell: laughing because I think we're just all like, my sister has never had a successful haircut and she's 38. Hair always looks beautiful, but anytime you come back, do you like it? No. Did you say anything? No. No, 

Neil: no. Because we are, we are taught not to. Right. Particularly being, being British, you just have to kind of suck it up and crack on.

And actually, I'm not the kind of person that, that to just accept, uh, substandard, particularly when it comes to substandard service, whether that's customer service. Or something that you've paid for. So now I kind of advocate for myself, but particularly in medical fields, it can be really daunting when there's language and terminology that you don't understand.

Um, and, and I've been on waiting list for two years from my A DH adhd and I'm constantly on it, my GP saying, I. What's happening? Where am I on the list? Mm. What's happening? Because I'm not gonna be fobbed off anymore. But when people are sit in silence because waiting list, we're told there's nothing we can do, blah, blah, blah.

When you, when you don't take action, and this might be, this might be a situation in a, in a shop setting or a hospitality setting or the GP surgery, um, whatever, a state agent, whatever. If you just shut up and put up, nothing is gonna change in the world. 

Shell: Mm-hmm. 

Neil: A hundred percent be a cat, be a don't be a total fucking Karen and complain unnecessarily.

But there is, don't be, uh, don't be shamed into advocating for your needs and if something doesn't work for you. 

Shell: Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and if, and find your tribe as well. I think that's really important for me, like, you know, with the, um, perimenopause challenges last summer because I have a lot of recovery, um, meetings that I go to that are female only and we're all quite similar ages.

Weirdly enough, I wasn't the only one. So I had, when I was going back to the GP, literally every two weeks, like hands and knees. Lists of symptoms begging them for HRT and it was really, now I look back, back, I was gonna say poorly handled, but now again, no, it was poorly handled. Like I just didn't have had to get to where I got to.

The reason I say that is because the moment I started HRT, six weeks later, my life is like chalk and cheese. And you think, why did it have to get that to do you know what I mean? And if it hadn't have been for like. Women around me that I could at least lean on and say, this is how, and now I've got so many that are coming to me and saying, this is what's happening with me.

What should I do? And all of that. And being able to then kind of pay that forward. Yeah. I think is also just such a privilege. To be able to, 

Neil: to be able to, and to be able to find a tribe, to be able to access a safe space where people listen, uh, where people will, uh, give you the care and attention that you deserve.

Listen, you matter, okay? Mm-hmm. And that goes for everyone. You matter. And safe spaces are so important, whether that is a sober space, whether that is a queer space, whether that is a women only space, whether that's a black only space. These spaces are important. They are rare, and they really, really should be protected, and it's not just about the challenges and barriers.

I talk a lot about this working in diversity and inclusion. It's not just about the challenges and barriers, it's also about the joy I. It is also about the celebrating and lifting each other up. And I mean that, and you know, if anything, that ties so nicely into what the House of Happiness is all about.

Yeah. Because as we said at the beginning, when you find yourself on that dance floor, it doesn't matter what your backstory is, you might have given up alcohol, you might not even, even giving up alcohol actually, because some people come to the house happiness purely because it's a fucking cracking event and they, they're still drinkers, but they come.

Because they know it's a good time. But if you are sober and you're coming to the house, happiness or sober, curious, whatever, people are coming, regardless of what their backstory is, and they're finding a connection, they're finding a joy on that dance floor through sober joy, right? Whether their backstory is addiction and recovery, lifestyle choice, like myself, health, uh, trauma, whatever.

And so I think it ties back into what we were saying about, you know, people come to. Sober spaces for very different reasons. Um, but it is about listening and, and caring and showing up, but it's also about celebrating each other. And that's a really beautiful thing to be able to do in life. 

Shell: Yeah. And it is, you're right.

It's about, for me, it's all about connecting with joy. And that's, that's why I love the House of Happiness. So I mean, for anyone who doesn't know, how did it start? What was it all about? Talk. So 

Neil: it started because, uh, Janie and Emma, my two co-founders, uh, they met on the sober scene. Um, when Janie first went sober, I was very much not sober.

Janie's a year ahead of me and she'd often invite me out to her sober events. I'd be like, nah, you do that with your sober friends. Um, and, and then, um, and then eventually I took a break from alcohol. Uh, 1st of January, 2019. Uh, and a year later found myself in my first sober rave, which was Morning Glory V, which was an interesting, I've been to Morning Glory.

Great event. Great event. Um. A bit on the mindfulness and wellbeing side of things for me, very different for personally. Yeah. Very different. Um, and so fast forward a few years and, um, Emma had discovered a love of DJing, um, and kind of, um, was DJing at other sober events. And then Janey and Emma had this wild idea to create an event.

And they know that I worked in the events industry. You know, I've been in the, I've been in the events industry for nearly. Two decades now, but never, never done like a clubbing event or anything like that. But they said, do you wanna be on board? And I'm, I'm a yes person ultimately. So said, yeah, I'll get involved.

Um, and we knew that we wanted to create something big and bold and colorful and glittery thinking kind of like hooper, uh, sink the pink, um, love, yes. Uh, love box kind of vibes. Um, glitter box, sorry. Uh, and, um, and so kind of, um, just went down. This planning route, and that was early 2022. It was actually towards the end of 2021 that we first started teaming with the ideas, but it was 2022 when conversations got going.

Um, and then fast forward in the summer, we decided to launch this thing and we had no context or no con uh, content for what it would be like. Um, and against rail strikes and the Queen dying, we had our first event in, um, in Octa. And, and yeah, that's our whole story. We had our first event, um. In October, 2022, which was our house warming.

And we knew the vibe that we wanted to create. Um, and when that vision came to life with its big, colorful branding, you know, neon, very kind of like, you know, very rave scene. Um, very fun, big, bold messaging about safe, inclusive, fun and a rave to remember. And, and, um, zero tolerant tolerance for any isms or phobias.

You know, very much in line with. Uh, when you think about Queer House Party and how mm-hmm. Kind of out there they are with their messaging around what they, what they, what they will and won't tolerate. Um, and yeah, this thing just came to life and fast forward kind of two and a half years now and so many events later, um, we've done Pride events as well.

We've done, we've done our first festival, we've done Pride Swim, so co our own events, collaborations later, and it is thriving and our dance floor is such a. Brilliant place to be. You look around, you'd never guess it was sober except for the fact that people are so bloody nice. 

Shell: That you've literally hit the nail on the head for like, the only reason, you know, it is different.

The first one I went to was at fire, which anybody, um, who knows Voxel. Um, and the, uh, the scene knows that fire is quite notorious. Of an evening. Yeah. I mean, yeah, and I used to, well I used to live in Stockwell and my housemate Alan was a great frequenter and we would hear him coming in at all sorts of times of day after being at fire.

And so I actually, I dunno if it was intentional, but I. Love the fact that you are using the space that is so notoriously deported. Yeah. Which is a fancy way of saying it. It's, it can be getting a little bit down and dirty. Um, was that intentional to reclaim it? 

Neil: It was, yeah. It was actually, uh, Janie and I spent a lot of time back in fire.

I mean, I've been going to fire art since kind of like the late nineties. Um, and Janie and I, our friendship actually kind of like developed from nights out, um, uh, area and, and fire. Um, and so, um, it was, it was very deliberate to choose a club, a dirty clubbing venue where you got that grimy clubby experience during the day.

'cause so many sober events. No shade. Uh, choose venues that are really bright. Um, yeah. And when it's during the day, you don't want, um, sunshine. You want a dark club with the lights, with the full on sound system. Yeah. And so, yeah, it was a really deliberate thing to create that experience where people feel, um.

Uninhibited from just letting loose. You're not gonna get that in a hall. You're not going to get that. You're not gonna 

Shell: community hall. Yeah, 

Neil: you're not gonna get that in a swanky venue. You're going to get that in a place that's a proper club. So getting a sober event under those legendary arches in voxel is a massive achievement.

And, and also I like to think that we bring a bit of sober debauchery to fire as well. Because as much as, as much as I think people look at the house happiness and. We probably. People probably look at it and you think, yeah, it's quite wholesome because it is, you know, it is a sober event. It's full of fun, it's full of joy, but you get people fucking going wild on our dance floor.

And we've got dancers up there in their kind of like, you know, Fongs and jocks and bras. Yeah. Amazing performers. Absolute wild. Yeah. So the performers don't hold back. It's a proper adult experience. You know, we set it at eight, we set it at eighteens and over. Purely because there's enough places where you've got kids running around all over the place.

Right? Oh 

Shell: my God. If you had a kid there, Neil, I would never go back, 

Neil: but, but exactly. But adults need to let loose too, and adults need have some fun. So the themes that we choose allow people to get a bit fun, a bit bold, a bit risque if they want to. You've got your dancers, you've got really heavy kind of house music.

Yes, it's vocal house. Um, but some of, some of it's a bit grier than others. We've got this proper club. Um, you've got people kind of, you know. People don't think twice about kind of shipping down to their underwear. We even had, um, a, a woman go topless on the podiums the other day. Uh, and that was a, that was an attendee that wasn't a dancer.

So, you know, when you think, you look at, you might look at the house happiness and think, oh, that looks nice and wholesome. Yeah, it is. But so, but debauchery is also real. Um, and creating a space where people can just let loose and there's a bit of chaos. There's a bit of carnage. Why the hell not sober does not mean boring, wild, not wasted.

Yeah. And so these are all messages that we really lean into when we're talking about it because we don't want people to think that you have to hang up your dancing shoes. I don't even know where that expression comes from. It's such a stupid expression. But we, we use it all the time. But you do not have to give up on being wild and having DeVores time just 'cause you don't drink.

Shell: No, honestly, it was such a like. It's one of those, there's a few moments that I've had in sobriety that I never thought I would have ever again. Um, because. Sitting at a bar, for example, and trying, um, this is when I, I went to Club Soda. I was very newly sober. Um, I just started the podcast, so it was about, well not newly sober, but it was about 18 months.

And I come back to London. I was sat at the bar at Club Soda, Noah was working there still, and he was giving me little samples of bottles off the back of the bar going, oh, have you tried this? And I never thought I would ever experience sitting at a bar and being able to point at a bottle and say, oh, I'll have a little taste of that.

Um. And that, and that was a really poignant moment when I realized actually life wasn't, didn't have to be as different as I thought it was gonna have to be. And another time was, and I can, again, I can literally feel myself on that dance floor with, on that dance floor, Hannah was there, sober butterfly, Hannah, uh, Caroline, DJ Flourish was there.

And we had, um. Who else was that? It doesn't matter really. And I had this sequin dress that I'd bought off Vinted, and I, again, it was just silly things like never thinking I'd ever need to buy a going out dress. So like I'd sold all my going out clothes, for example, when I'd moved down a moved house and little things like, oh, I'm sober now.

I'm never gonna need a nice dress. So I'd had to buy this, um, this, uh, sequin dress. And it's just being able to. Dance with abandonment. And the beautiful thing as well, like you said, is that you are dancing. There's nobody coming up to you and leering at you and making you feel unsafe. And I don't think that's just a female thing.

I think that's anywhere, you know, anything, you know? So I felt very, very safe. You know, I'm a boob. Like I wasn't topless, it wasn't me, but I had my boobs out, you know, and I felt, but I felt safe enough to, you know, be like that and. Every time I caught somebody's eye, they smiled at me. Yeah. And that was magic.

Nobody looked at you with a. Oh, she shouldn't be wearing that. And oh, look at that. You know, none of that. And it just felt so incredible. And the other incredible thing about House of Happiness is there was no cue for the toilets. 

Neil: Ah, no cue. Absolutely. No, no. It's all amazing at all. Yeah. I mean, they're still grimy.

They're still grimy. 'cause it's a part, 'cause it's a bloody club. Some, one of my friends moaned about the, oh, she's still 

Shell: sticking. Yeah, 

Neil: absolutely. One of my friends moaned about the toilets once and I was like, oh, it's a club. What do you expect? You know, we are not gonna have like posh loos. Um. So many people have commented on the fact that what we've created and we get a lot of feedback, a lot of great feedback.

And I remember one person, a guy come up to me on our third event, uh, literally crying and said, I didn't think that I'd be able to do this again. So that is, uh, that is testament to the fact that so many people write off their, their, any form of fun. Or the, the ability to just dance and, and, and live your best life.

And this whole thing about people smiling and, and wearing what you want. We have our themes, which people can jump into if they want to, but it's a, you come in your pajamas, you come in, your favorite jeans and t-shirt, whatever come as you are. 

Shell: Mm-hmm. 

Neil: And we just want you to have the best time. We don't care.

As long as you are having a good time and you feel safe and you are and you are loving it. And we always make a really big fuss about our house rules. You know, they're there for a reason and those include that that line about zero tolerance, fism and phobias. But it is no agro, no unwanted leering, no touching.

You know, you know, respect space, respect pronouns. Um, and respect. And respect who people are. Um, yeah. And those things might put some people off. Um, you know, in this, in this age of anti wokeness, whatever, we don't give a shit. If you don't like it don't come because we wanna preserve, um, we want to, we want our dance hall to be a place where everyone feels that they can belong.

Shell: Yeah, no, I think that everybody should experience what you have built regardless of what the A BV of their glass is, purely because, like you say, it's a moment to just be able to just let loose without barriers and without worrying. Yeah. And without. Game playing and you know, just literally being able to exist and you have some exceptional DJs, you know, it's not just a, oh we really do sticking on an iPod.

It's like, if you like that kind of music, if you like to dance, you're not just gonna be like, oh, you know, it's amazing. And they're so passionate about it as well. 

Neil: The DJs go wild. We had Sunna on in November. It was, um, we had Caroline, uh, DJ Flourish and we had Sunna and there was one per point that the bar area was slightly raised.

And there was one point I looked over and, um. I looked around and I just, I get these moments sometimes where I look at what we've created and I'm like. Is this happening? Like this is palpable, this, this atmosphere, this vibe, this energy. Um, and um, yeah, we get, we get it regularly and we, we always joke with it as a team that they get better and better every time.

And they absolutely do. And, and for me, they, they, yeah. It just, it's just, it's mind blowing. But I think that when you are someone that wants to show up in the world, once you've kind of found your voice or you've found kind of like. Uh, a reason. A, a why for what you, what for what you want to bring to the world.

Um, don't just sit on it, just do it. Um, I would just encourage everyone, it should be action over perfection when it comes to putting yourself out there and, and making a difference. Um, and you might not get it right all the time, and there's always areas for improvement and growth. Um, but take a risk and believe in yourself because I never thought that I would be the co-founder of.

A massive sober clubbing event. I never like you, I've never dreamed of having a podcast. You know, I was always quite, uh, in, in, in, where I was comfortable, quite vocal, but never really felt that anyone would want to listen to me. So, uh, take a risk and believe in yourself. 

Shell: Yeah. And thousands of people have downloaded your podcast, so they definitely listened to you.

Yeah, 

Neil: we're not, I'm not quite in the thousands yet, but I hit, you know, I hit a year anniversary in, I have a, I have. I've got over a thousand. I hit a year anniversary in, in, um, that's thousands. Then April, I, I mean I'll take it. Um, it's my year anniversary in April and hey, I dunno about you, but the fact that you, you've been sticking to this and I've stuck at mine for almost a year like that is progress in itself because when I first bought this fancy podcast kit, um, I was like, I'm gonna go for the cheap version because I dunno how long this hobby's gonna last.

D, adhd actually. Yeah. But the joy of when you find something that you are passionate about and it, that doesn't mean it's not hard work. That doesn't mean it doesn't take effort. And sometimes it might be a bull lake. I'm gonna not, I'm not gonna lie, doing the social media for the House of Happiness, it is fucking draining on a creative and time level, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I've got so much content and stuff that I can use, but sometimes I just feel like, what am I gonna post today? It's not, I'm not. I'm not the most strategic about it. Um, so it doesn't mean that it's not gonna be challenging or take up your time. There is sacrifice, there is compromise, but if you've got an idea, it just might be worth it.

Shell: Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, uh, talking about ideas, you know, your fans, your fans, my socks, you know, it's even stuff like that. Yes. And again, that's why I just love this, you know, like who would've thought. Back then there they are. The, you know, the idea of being able to, and again, it's, it goes all the way back to our beginning conversation about there being options and being a different narrative to say, you know, you can be sober and still swear you can be sober and still be a massive cunt.

Being sober doesn't mean you are boring. It doesn't mean that you don't get to be on the dance floor, not going to be able to sit at a bar, you know? Yeah. The more and more people, I think that realize that the more people will probably give a break from drinking a try, because at the end of the day, you don't lose anything.

Even if it's a week, even if it's a no, it gives you a little chance just to question the why. Yeah, and I share about it a lot. I wish I'd had that opportunity six, seven years ago to just have a break versus the pain and the destruction. That ended up being much like you, you know, you actually went, do you know what?

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna have a break. And actually it's better. Yeah. Without that huge blowing up. 

Neil: Yeah. But I mean, never, never planned for it to be amazing. Never planned for it to be, um, this long. Um, it just kind of happened, but, you know, having a friend that, you know, Janie that went sober a year before me, um, and seeing, you know, you never know who you're going to inspire.

And I think whether it comes to kind of a big event or. Silly merch with a, with a, with a bold offensive message on it. Ultimately, what you're giving people is, um, you are helping them, uh, reframe their own narrative. Um, you are creating something fun that people can buy into, and ultimately that creates communities, that creates belonging, that creates connection.

So it might, like I said, it might seem silly, but. It can make a difference. It can, it can, it can literally transform someone's experience. Your story, um, and your ideas have the power to, uh, to create real change for people. Um, yeah, and that's special. 

Shell: I. Oh, if I had a mic. I do have a mic. I was gonna say, if I had a mic I'd have dropped it.

I shouldn't drop this one 'cause it was a bit expensive. You don't, 

Neil: I might, I might drop mine 'cause I want a new one, so that would give me an excuse to buy a new one. But, 

Shell: um, I always end with the, the last question being, you know, what does recovery mean to you? I mean, we have touched on it a lot, but if you could sum it up, what has recovery meant to you?

Neil: I guess, you know, again, recovery. Recovery in that broad sense, um, it's enabled me to, uh, to live unapologetically and freely and I can be stupid and ridiculous and, and awful and happy, um, but without fear that it's being caused by something that I can't control. Yeah, like it's lit. I have control. I have control.

I am able to tap into my capacity, my compassion, my clarity, uh, so, so much easier when it comes to alcohol. And then just recovery from a reputation that I created and sometimes it was forced on me. Um, recovery from all those things around burnout and people pleasing that, that don't serve me as a human and they don't enable me to thrive.

So I think recovery has just enabled me to, I. Um, and again, mindful of language and terminology, um, has allowed me to just be me. Um, yeah. Yeah. Quirks, flaws, quirks, flaws and the good shit. 'cause there's a lot of good shit. And I, and I do talk about this, I haven't always liked myself and I know this is something that res will resonate with you and so many people that you, guests, you, you've had on and other people out there.

Oh yeah. I haven't always liked myself and that has been as a result of. My drinking, drug taking and my BA and the subsequent behavior. But I quite like myself now quite like how I show up in the world and I love what I'm putting out there in the world. And that is, that's dynamite to me. Like in terms of kind of like, you know, I'm not the most strategic person, haven't got a big life plan, don't crave kind of like big promotions or anything like that.

But the fact that I've got to a point I like myself, hey, if I croak it tomorrow. At least I got there. Some people don't get there. 

Shell: That's fucking Oscar worthy. That is. That's exactly that. Love it. I like you very much too. Oh yeah. 

Neil: Love these bits. 

Shell: Brilliant. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and um, yeah, really relatable and very much appreciate you being here.

I will put everything into the show notes website so that people can connect with you socials, where they can get the fans and most, I importantly. I'll be able to see when all of the dates are coming up 

Neil: um, just wanna say thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate you and what you do, and you are smashing it. 

Shell: Oh, thank you. Oh, that's, we're gonna take this loving offline everybody. Thank you so much for coming. 

Neil: Cheers.