We Recover Loudly – Unfiltered Stories, Unapologetic Recovery

S3 Episode 04 Chloe: Recovering Loudly … Chaos, Creativity, and the Courage to Start Again

• Shell Righini • Season 3 • Episode 4

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In this honest and engaging episode of We Recover Loudly, host Shell is joined by Chloe Belle Porter who began drinking at just 11 years old and spent much of her teens and twenties caught in a cycle of chaos, people-pleasing, and emotional burnout.

Together, they explore the impact of early trauma, people-pleasing, and the emotional toll of growing up in survival mode. Chloe shares her unfiltered journey through school suspensions, identity struggles, and relationships shaped by a deep need to belong — all while alcohol became both a comfort and a trap.

Now in recovery, Chloe is the founder of Olivia Danger, a bold, empowering brand rooted in grace and grit — a reflection of her resilience, creativity, and healing. She’s training as a silversmith, crafting tangible pieces that embody strength and self-expression on her own terms.

This conversation is real, relatable, and full of moments that will resonate, especially if you’ve ever felt like you’re holding it together on the outside while falling apart underneath.

Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or just trying to make sense of your own story this episode is for you.

CONNECT WITH CHLOE : 

@oliviadangerfinemetal

https://www.etsy.com/shop/oliviadangerjewelry

For more information on We Recover Loudly and to reach out for speaking engagements or support email hello@werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly
www.werecoverloudly.com


Shell: Hello and welcome to this new episode of We Recover Loudly. Today I am joined by my dear friend and jewelry maker, Chloe Bell Porter. So complete transparency. Chloe and I have recorded this episode already about, I wanna say like three months ago. It was a little while ago, wasn't it? And since we recorded that, um, Chloe has gone through a whole lot of changes with her business and it's been really, really interesting and really inspiring to watch her evolve from where her business was to where it is now.

And I thought, actually, do you know what? It would be really great to rerecord this, uh, episode and discuss why the changes, all of that, because I think there's huge power, um, in coming and looking at a business and going, I'm not sure if this is really me. And that's, that's kind of really what recovery is about, that redefining, re, uh, regrowing all of that stuff.

Um, so this is a replay in a weird way. I'm gonna stop using words that start with re any minute now. Chloe, how are you? I'm well. How are you? I'm good. I feel like I need to do the, um, so Chloe and I know each other through recovery, and we are basically for people who don't know myself or Chloe, um, very much the same, the same people.

And, um, I'm now gonna do what Chloe and I love to do, which is over apologize for things that aren't even noticed. And the first thing I shall be over apologizing for is anyone watching this on a video. Uh, the background, because I have moved house and all the other podcast episodes have got this lovely background with all my books, color coded and looks all professional.

Um, but this background, we've just got a pillow that says Disco, not dick. Um, and some very bad overlighting that makes me look like a gul Chloe. It's sat on the floor. 

Chloe: I'm avoiding some tree surgeons at the front of the house, 

Shell: so, uh, so we're starting off on a really good foot. Yeah, 

Chloe: well, exactly, precisely.

Shell: So. You've got a brand new, well, an evolved company, a brand new jewelry company called Olivia Danger. Yep. Uh, fine metal. Um, it's a whole new skill to, oh, not a whole new skill, but it's a, a new skill set. 

Chloe: A whole new skill. Oh, 

Shell: is it? I love that whole, 

whole, 

Chloe: yeah. It's a di Well, yeah. I, I think that, I think that, yeah, it is, it's an entire new skillset.

It's working with metals now. It's silversmithing. It's, I mean, obviously I haven't just, um, learned an entire sort of craft in a matter of two weeks. So it's, if that would be very A DHD, that would be very a DHD. Um, so it's also a journey as well. You know, I, it, it's not, at the point I decided that I had to step back and start from zero.

So right now, is it a trading business? Not so much, but it's the journey to becoming, you know, a trading business. And, I feel that it's much more representative of who I am and what my intention is. Yeah. 

Shell: Well, let's go as we love to do on this show, go all the way back because, you know, it's always important to understand how we get to where we are because they, you know, people see people like you and ask me, just smashing life, you know, just living our dreams, all of that.

Um, and they think, wow. Have they ever had a bad day? Yeah. Let me tell you, we have, um, so I mean, you grew up, uh, in the states? I did. In Los Angeles, yes. Um, a little bit like the Buffy, the Vampire Slayer School. It sounds like whenever you describe it, it feels like that. Where, oh, 

Chloe: yeah. 9 0 2 or no, 9 

Shell: 9 2.

Showing your age, 

Chloe: Chloe. Yeah, I know. I am, but yeah. 9 0 2 1 Oh, Buffy. 

Shell: Yeah. What was that like? I mean, as somebody who went through the English school system, um, and then went and did a gap year in America, just because I was so wanting to experience what it would be like to be a high school student in America.

There is this kind of, because of the movies, because of the TV shows this, um, oh, I get, I could say Wonderlust or this, yeah. This kind of like, oh, I just wanna experience it. But what was it really like? Yeah. Well, I mean, 

Chloe: it, it was a little bit, you know, it, it was quite like it was depicted on television.

You know, the sun is always shining. You are, you are slamming your locker door. Um, house parties every weekend, tops down, not tops down, uh, convertible tops down, you know, loud music. It, it was very much like that. Um, but the way my, well. Let me rephrase that. My experience was very much like that. Obviously inner city schools don't have the programs and the stuff that I was blessed with and, and, and let's just be clear about that.

Um, but it was, um, it was in my, let's say my sector where I went to school in my circle, it was extreme wealth. It was wealth that you couldn't even fathom. You know, it was private jets, it was Dolce Gabbana to to ninth grade dances. It was a level of insanity. And so I know we discussed this on the, on the last podcast, but very much for a self-conscious, um, active alcoholic with A DHD.

Um, it preyed on my self-esteem. It preyed on those insecurities. It very much. I didn't have a private jet. I, my, my parents did well, but I was not private jet wealthy. There was no brand new BMW on my 16th birthday, you know. 

Shell: Well, your dad's a very successful musician, so you kind of, it feels like, you know, you cut your cloth, but to, it must be crazy to be amongst, you know, in a relatively successful and respected musician as well.

Very well respected. Yeah. And yet to be the poor kid. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, that must have been mind blowing. 

Chloe: It is. And it's a, it's a very strange, it's very strange. But unlike the uk you know, where we really still, and this is, I feel like, uh, uh, this is an objective standpoint because I didn't go through schooling here, but it seems to me that there is still very much a class system.

There is very much a sort of social hierarchy. There is, I. I mean, just the concept of aristocracy. And I know that that's a whole, oh, for sure. Political conversation. But you know, in LA yes, you have the haves and have nots, but there is,

there is a social equality in that, socially speaking. Um,

socially speaking, whilst I cannot speak for marginalized races and for, you know, for other classes I cannot, but from, and maybe this is my privilege talking, but we were a social melting pot. There was no, there was no, oh, that person's from that side of town. We can't hang out with them. It was very, from my perspective, inclusive in, in so, so, you know, where I got to see extreme and extraordinary, extraordinary wealth.

I also got to see. Other side of that. Um, and that is an experience that I'm grateful to have and I'm almost worried that my children aren't having, was it a private school? Was it a paid for school? 

Shell: Yeah, I 

Chloe: went to, I went to private school. I went to 

Shell: prep 

Chloe: school. 

Shell: Yeah. 'cause obviously like, you know, we definitely at, I think it's quite interesting that when we were, when I was at a high school kind of age, they still did bursaries, um, for private school in the uk.

Mm-hmm. So private schools used to have far more of a mix of, um, people from different backgrounds. Um, but I don't necessarily think that they were treated. I, I, I, I dunno, actually I shouldn't speak because I wasn't from, from either of those things, but I imagine I did go to private school for my A Levels, um, and therefore was with a lot of the guys that benefited from bursaries for their whole schooling.

Um, and it was. Nice in a way because you did therefore get a breadth of experience and a breadth of people. Um, but I wonder I whether that has changed now because private schools in the uk there is no bursaries now. Um, it all and, and the price of private schools is going up and up and up. So ironically, even the, the rich are now like, Ooh, ooh, that's a bit tough.

Maybe, maybe we all, uh, consider something else. Um, it almost creates more of that divide. Yeah, 

Chloe: absolutely. 

Shell: I mean, 

Chloe: and, and that's something that I think why I've always liked uniforms is because that is an equalizer, you know, because from interesting, my school, I went to school in the, I didn't get the Doc Martins, I got the Fox farts, you know, or you know, I didn't have the Yeah.

The material wealth that everyone else had. Um, that shit fucks you up though, my friend. Oh, catalyst and the underpinning sort of drive for why I'm. Into jewelry and into jewelry making. Um, but, but I do see that that uniforms, I think allow, I, I, uh, a, a tiny a respite from the sort of have nots. And I do know that some schools have now banned certain labels.

And, and, and I do think, you know, I I, I, I respect that. I, that's why I like uniforms because I, I'm sure that there is a whole host of, there's a whole host of parents out there that would like to do away with uniforms because it stifles individuality and certain kids are sensory, and, and I get that too.

Mm. But in, in sort of a, a world where there is such a disparity of wealth, I think that it takes, it relieves some of that anxiety for a good portion of the population. Perfect. Yeah. 

Shell: Like a Well, it's like a leveler, isn't it? But I, I, I don't think if ironic are right, but conversely, I was in uniform, um, my whole schooling until the very last year of A levels, um, and even in uniform, because you could still choose the skirt.

It had to be blue. But the shoes, and, you know, saying about the doc Martins, you know, I always wanted, um, I think there was a period where everyone wore kickers, kicker shoes, which is a brand that's now popular again. 'cause the nineties apparently is so, I just hate that we grew up in an era that is now considered vintage.

But, um, you know, and, and that, and I would always feel very oed because I would, and I, and again, I, I still remember. And, and you would think that I could get over this 'cause it's like been 30 years. Um, but when I went to high school and I started at high school, and so you kind of, you, you go from those tiny classes to this big whole school and some people, you know, some you don't.

And everybody had this, um, it's like a sports holder as their school bag, um, over the shop thing, um, by head. I can't, I don't even know if head even exists as a brand anymore. Um, and I thought I got the right bag, I got the right shape, but mine was Jaguar. 

Oh, 

Shell: oh, what a fail. I literally feel like vomiting right now.

And, and I, there's a picture of me on my first day at high school that, because, you know, that's what you do as parents, you take the picture and I look at that picture and I, I could feel how fucking uncomfortable I was because my skirt was longer, it was on the knee. Ugh. The most flattering of lengths on the knee.

Um, just 'cause I'm 11 doesn't mean I don't wanna look sassy. Um, my car, my, you know, it was tucked in the cardigan was a long one. It wasn't the right long one. It wasn't in the bag. And oh, a little fluffy fringe. And I just think even within uniform, there's a way for you to just feel so, because intrinsically, I think, and this again is where you and I relate so heavily in a lot of people that we've met in the recovery rooms, we were always born inside feeling wrong and different.

Yeah. You could put us all in white t-shirts and black trousers and still feel othered. Yeah. 

Chloe: Yes, a hundred percent. And we also think the world revolves around us. So while we are focusing on, you know, the wrong shape of backpack, you know, yes, some other kids might pick up on it, but they're focused on their own misshapen backpack.

Do you know what I'm saying? Or that they've got the wrong kind of pencil case or mm-hmm. You know? 

Shell: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, but it is, it's crazy how, you know, things like that still kind of really, like, I could feel it in my body, the shame and the embarrassment of, of that. Um, and I mean, you, um, you've shared before that you started drinking at a really young age, and was that part of that about getting away from that discomfort that puberty was lovingly bringing around?

Chloe: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I think, you know. I had my first taste, and it was just over from that point, there was no lead up that in terms of, there wasn't sort of a gradual drinking here or there. It went from my first sip to the next Monday, you know, water bottles full of vodka. There was just, and it was because I had taken that sip and, you know, for that moment, all of the, the fear and the anxiety and the insecurity and the weight that I felt even at, you know, 11 years old, it dissipated.

And, you know, I was a shy child. I was fearful, I was afraid of boys. I was sort of, I had. Some dark spaces in my head. Now do I know that that was probably related to my A-D-A-D-H-D in processing? Mm-hmm. Yes. Did I know that back then? No. Um, but so for that first drink truly was medicinal and I became the person who I felt I was always supposed to be.

So then starting at that young age, you know, and going through life and my experience of being just, you know, a constant relapser was because it was embedded in me that this alcohol induced version of me was closer to the reality than, uh, the sober version of me. 

Shell: And let's, uh, let's unpick that a little.

You know, what, what, what was that version of, 'cause I know that that version of you couldn't be further from who you are. And yet, actually, even as you was talking about that, I was thinking we still do hold onto elements of it. You know, there are, it's not always like, oh, when I was a drinking, I was the worst human.

You know, it actually giving you the confidence to stand up and stand up for yourself and live a bit more truthfully and all of that. There was that, but I mean, what was it about, um, that person that you felt that was your authentic self at the time? Um, I could 

Chloe: live more loudly. 

Mm. 

Chloe: I instantly became grittier.

Oh, I like that. And I instantly started to release rage. Mm. And be less afraid. And. More vocal. Um, because I think that my fears kept me quiet and kept me sort of standing behind everybody else. And I, I don't think that that was necessarily authentic to my personality. I mean, I'm, I'm an introvert by nature anyway, so I am rather quiet.

I'm happy with my own company. I, you know, that type of thing. Um, but I wanted to be more than that. I didn't want to be an extrovert, but I wanted to be more than that. And I think I was able to step into sort of that circle. I was able to start communicating. I was able to start, you know, saying what I thought or, uh, you know, even just.

Expressing ideas that I was too fearful to do before that. And obviously we are talking about a very idealized version of me. It was messy, it was ugly, it was covered in vomit. It was not like, it was not like, there was this period of time where I was just sort of this elevated version of myself. I mean, really ugly.

Um, but it did in a lot of ways feel more authentic. Um, but then obviously then there's a, you know, the craving takes over and the alcoholism takes over and the malad, the spiritual malady and, and then, you know, I can't stop drinking. So I'd have like that sort of period where it was elevated, Chloe maybe, and then it just went downhill.

Shell: Yeah, I think the fear thing is such a. Big part of, you know, you and I both late diagnosed, um, A DHD as our, so many of our sober sisters and sober brothers that were meeting in the recovery. I, 

Chloe: I was diagnosed. 

Shell: Oh, you were young, weren't you? I was 14. You got no excuse 

Chloe: then. it was still, you know.

Back. So when was I 14? It must have been 1996. So, you know, it was before it was trendy. Before it was trendy, yeah. Um, but it was a learning disability, right? It was a learning disability. We didn't talk about processing. They diagnosed you. It was like you didn't need therapy. They didn't tell you what to expect.

It was, it's a learning disability. You are hyperactive, you can't focus, so we're gonna put you on a medicine that's gonna bring you Wow. So you can focus. And it was that black and white. Um mm. So it wasn't until my, probably my forties that I start that and I started paying attention to the conversation because now I have an autistic child.

So I'm more enveloped that I started realizing, oh, it wasn't just about the fact that I couldn't. Sit in a class and I could list listen, but I couldn't hear what the teacher was saying. You know, it, it was so much more than that. It was my obsessive nature, the way I obsessed over a boy and like could think of nothing less and be, you know, two cliques away from being a stalker, or it was how, you know, I two clicks away from being a stalker.

I mean, I, I gave my, you know, when I married my ex-husband, the joke was like, stalk them until they marry you, because that's literally what I did. I stalked him until he broke down and was like, oh, okay, I guess I can't live without you and you won. And I won. Well, did I win Rome? Really? Did I, um, you know, so it wasn't until later in life that I realized that actually all that fit, that, you know, all of these things were part and parcel.

Um, and I think that kids are lucky now that. That they get to, they get to look at the, the, the bigger picture and the full picture and the anxiety that comes with it, or the, you know, explaining, you know, I, with my daughter for instance, she can't understand how she's in class listening, but then she misses the entire, it's not a lecture, but even if it's instructions by the end of the instruction, she's like, wait, I didn't actually hear the instructions.

Shell: Um. Gosh. And that's just so, I mean, it's GCSE. We are recording, um, when it's GCSE World at the minute in the uk. And so I keeps getting this week oh g and um, it brings back again, you know, it's the same with the old, the wrong bag. You know, GCSE bring back a lot of memories this time of year. And I can remember I was always predicted way better grades than I managed to achieve because I would get into the room and I would just forget everything.

Um, I was a crammer like a. Cram, cram, cram. Like it felt like if I, I was literally reading note cards and I would almost spend more time by A levels, I would spend more time creating a beautiful note card that had a full on index system than actually retaining or reading the information. But they would be like color coded, there'd be different pens for different reason.

Uh, but I then I'd never, I wouldn't get the time to read them. Yeah. I'd spent so much time creating them. I'd literally, I can visualize being in the car going, fuck what is chemistry? Um, and um, yeah. I wish, yeah, like I'd known just what you've explained with your daughter. I like, I totally relate to that.

I'll walk out and be like. Yeah. 

Chloe: And, and we learn. I, I, I think, you know, we learn, uh, I, I know people aren't, this is very controversial and I'm saying this as an a DHD parent, as an autism parent, as an A DHD individual, you know, okay, maybe I won't say everybody's a little bit, you know, divergent. However, every individual person has their own learning style.

And this is not Kate, a hundred percent in the world. The, the standardized testing. I mean, you know, a teacher can't sit in a class of 30 kids and have a different, you know, learning plan for each one. And it's up to us to learn, you know, well, how, how, how do I make this work for me? Um, yeah. A hundred 

Shell: percent like it.

That, and that's the thing, not everybody, you can't cook a Cutty cutter regardless, because also everybody's got a different support system at home. You know, I'm, uh, looking on Instagram at the minute, um, for one of my clients. Then they follow lots of mom accounts. And I'm seeing all these mom accounts where the mom's like, oh, it's GCSE time.

We're all here revising together and dah, dah, dah. And you think, wow, what an interesting support system. Like I didn't have that. My mom worked, my dad worked and my parents didn't come through the British school system 'cause they were from South Africa. So I don't think they would even know where to start.

You know, my dad's also dyslexic. Like they just wouldn't be. That learning and revision for me was alone upstairs in my room. Same for my sister. There were no tutors, there were no anything. Or actually I did have a French tutor, which didn't really get me much. Um, 'cause I ended up getting a C anyway.

Chloe: I mean, I did, I, we have the SATs in America, which we take in. 11th grade, I think. So you do the, the PS SATs, which are the pres SATs. And you do that in the 10th grader's preparation. And I did have a, I did have A-P-S-A-T tutor, but the problems are still the problems that are the problems.

Like if it wasn't working in school, it's not gonna work. And it was a, a group tutor. It wasn't, but I had to go to this class once a week and you know, I, but I ended up in the 11th grade. I ended up going, um, taking my SATs drunk once, and that was it. Wow. So like, all that work leading up to it and being the type of person that I was, I needed my medicine to show up mm-hmm.

To do a ized test. So I got drunk, took the test drunk. Yeah. Get the anxiety gone. Just, just got rid of it. Had, you know, couldn't have. Cared any less about the test. Mm-hmm. You know, got an all right. I was gonna say, did you smash it? I didn't fully flunk it. Mm. Um, and, and, but I had to do that in order to complete that task.

And, you know, yes, my son is going through the SATs not to be con SATs in America. You know, he's doing his SATs this week. Such a stupid system, the subject, which is a stupid system. Mm-hmm. I've obviously been advocating for about three years because he is diagnosed autistic. So the school has, all his schools have this, um, his, you know, plans, et cetera, and so he gets some special provisions.

We haven't even bothered revise because you know he's gonna do well or he's not, and personally don't care. It is not a representation of his abilities in the slightest. But what we've had to prepare for is just this act of going into a high pressured test. Yeah. Which for his personality, whether it's autism or personality or learning style, does not suit him.

Um, and it doesn't suit 

Shell: so many. So many. 

Chloe: Yeah. So like he's going into school getting fear-based pressure because they want him to do well. 'cause if everyone does well, it reflects well on them. And then I'm literally having to break that apart when he gets home. So he shows up to the test yesterday and they're not giving him his provisions.

Shell: So unfair. Yeah. 

Chloe: And it's just like, you 

Shell: know, yeah. You say it's great for kids to have it and then they don't get it. And 

Chloe: you don't get it. But the truth is, 78% of its class probably needed the same provisions. It just so happens that we went through a long-winded, you know, three year, What's it called? I, uh, the evaluation, evaluation to, to get some written down on paper that he needs X, y, z, at least for him not to get it.

And, you know, for me, and I did share about this last night for me, I, as a sober alcoholic, I got to decide how I dealt with it, right? Mm-hmm. I got to, I got to show up for him and I got to, um, I got to make a conscious decision to walk down to that school in my pajamas, find his and question and advocate.

Yeah. And I got to be calm and I got to be concise. And I got to say exactly what I needed to say was that I was disappointed. The system had let you down. Oh, disappointed to the word disappointed, and this wasn't an acceptable. This was, this wasn't acceptable. Um, and I got to then have a conversation with several teachers and come up with a, um, a solution for that.

And I came home and I thought back to when he was entering reception and that I was too hungover and I had been so drunk in the weeks, months prior that I hadn't even realized he was due to go to an orientation day mm-hmm. Or that he was due to go for the pa or I had to go to the parent session. And so for those earlier years, how I could not show up how I was able yesterday to walk in as a sober woman and handle my shit.

Shell: Yeah. And use the devastating, disappointed word 

Chloe: and use the dev. Yeah. Let me ruin you. Like, you ruined me through my whole primary high school 

Shell: career. And I think that that's just, and again, I mean talking about being a mom, alcohol, the whole mummy wine culture thing is something that I never, um, understood.

Oh, not never understood. Sorry. I do understand it. Never experienced because I'm not a mom. Um, and yet I've now got lots of friends that are moms. I mean, the, in the, in recovery, the pressure that you guys are under to be everything, the advocation, regardless of whether or not you have a child who has extra, um, needs, extra care, whatever.

Do you know, like it is mind blowing. I mean, did you, did you feel that pressure? Did you ever use it as a Well, I'm a mom and it's a lot and you know, 'cause I think it's probably. Yeah. More common than people realize. Oh, it's huge. 

Chloe: Yeah. 

Shell: I 

Chloe: mean, 

Shell: I was 

Chloe: sober at the point when I had Charlie 

Mm. 

Chloe: And I was sober, and I relapsed shortly after.

I mean, I relapsed on Thanksgiving, which is the third Thursday in November or something. And he had been born just three weeks prior. I mean, I Mm. Barely made it because, because yeah, this whole, well this is really gonna age me, but this whole like Pinterest mom thing and the Instagram perfect mom mm thing is pervasive, you know?

And it is. You know, uh, what's her name? The, uh, press secretary for, for the Trump administration on Mother's Day, posted a picture of her feeding her kid while being the press secretary. And it's Oh, really fucking performative. I mean, I literally had cars hanging from my hair when my dreadlocked hair, when I had two toddlers.

It, and, and, and you know, it is, there's the pressure to get back into shape and to do this and to eat properly and to, and to feed your children all the perfect foods. And, and, and it's, but, but, but to be fair, whatever your choices are in life, whatever the pathway you choose, there are the same pressures.

Mm. Yeah. And I would then say that you, on any microculture, in any pathway, you will always find a. Maybe not wine culture, which is huge for the, the mum set. You know, it's, you put them down and you have a huge glass of wine and you've earned your right. And, and yeah. 

Shell: It mummy, it's mummy, mummy gin time and stuff like that.

And it's so, I mean, it's on fucking T-shirts. It's it, when you look for it, you 

Chloe: can't stop seeing it. Yeah. And it becomes like a badge of, you know, like a mm-hmm. Bit of a bing. And then you laugh about it later. But the realities of that for me was that I was so drunk in the night that I didn't hear Charlie cry.

Yeah. 

Chloe: Or that I was so hung over the next day that I couldn't, all I could do was lie there with him next to me. I couldn't engage with him. I couldn't click. Mm. Or you know. I was too hungover to take him to sort of any sort of sensory class or, you know, there is just a whole, that was the reality for me.

And then, and even like breastfeeding, like, which I only survived doing for about six weeks. But then you can't, you can't feed because you've got booze in your boobs, you know? And now you're feeling a little like a white Russian. Yeah, exactly. Precisely. You know, those are the realities. It is not all white and neutral and pink and beige and fluffy.

It's just, it's gritty and it's gross and it's sweaty and, you know. I got to act the opposite of that yesterday. Yeah. And that's what variety has given me. 

Shell: And ironic, again, I love using the word ironic in the wrong pase, but, and, and actually you behaved like the person that when I said to you, who was that person you were when you were drinking?

Yes. That was exactly who you were. You were gritty, you were forceful, you were clear, you were boundaried. You know? Yeah. And that's what I meant, like at the beginning, you know, when it's like, you know, when we drink, we become this person. There's not all badness in there. And if it's, it's just, it's like when it malfunctions, you know?

But we do become a little bit like the person we're meant to be. Yes. It's just very, very messy. And yeah, when you were talking, 

Chloe: the medicine goes wrong. Right. It's what, yeah. The medicine is the medicine and there are fleeting moments where it, it works, right. And then, then it goes horribly wrong. And that's what separates.

Or drinking from other people's drinking. 

Shell: Mm-hmm. And or however I will say, because we can't drink, we therefore build up ways of being that person that don't rely on a chemical. And conversely, I think that's better. You know, we've now built up, I had no toolbox, no for life, no nothing. And I know that you are exactly the same as most a lot of us are, and therefore I had to do the work, uh, which is annoying 'cause it's not paid and there's no holiday and it doesn't seem to have a fucking end date.

Um, no P 45 yet. Um, nope. So that now we do know how we have got the skills and the tools and stuff like that. Yeah. And, and actually I would rather be. Us and have had to build up those, that toolbox. Yeah. Then be somebody who has to drink to, or, you know what I mean? I'm probably not saying it very 

Chloe: clearly.

No, a hundred percent. I think sobriety has enabled us to step into who we are and clearing away of the wreckage has allowed us to do that with less fear. Mm-hmm. And, you know, uh, we talk about things like pausing and, and, um, oh, I'm gonna butcher this thanks to menopause, restraint a pen and tongue, you know?

Mm-hmm. And the thing is, is yesterday wasn't perfect. I did not pause before I went down to the school. I mean, 

Shell: you could have maybe changed from your PJ's just for more impact. 

Chloe: Could have put some clothes on, I could. Done it in a more graceful way. I didn't lose my temper. I was loving and compassionate and I, all of those things.

So I'm happy with that. Could I have done it better? Yes. But, but I, this is sobriety progress, not perfection. I, I wouldn't have been as gritty if you were dressed though. I know. But hey, I did. I went, I went in all tattoos out vintage Harley Davidson shirt, amazing pants covered in metal dust and they're just a shit themselves, upside.

Um, but you know, it's progress, not perfection, like I will remember this next time, but I got to walk outta that school and say, I've got nothing to be ashamed of. Yes. I've got nothing to apologize for. I haven't embarrassed my two children that go to this school. I've said what I needed to say, so now I have a clear conscience.

And you know what? I didn't have to do a 10th step last night on it. Mm-hmm. That I had handled it properly. 

Shell: Yeah, exactly. And that is, 

Chloe: uh, 

Shell: that is a miracle. It's mind blowing. Like you say, one of the greatest things that, for me when it is on the table, much like just saying, building up that toolbox, is just the ability to put my head on the pillow and kind of reflect on the day and think, okay, the things I could have done better.

But overall I am pretty satisfied with how the day went and where there have been things that I could have done better. I've got a kind of plan in place for the next day versus, fuck, everything in my life is a been fire. Tomorrow is a been fire. I dunno what to do. I'm just going to try and sleep as long as I can because I just wanna.

Prolong as much or like push away like as far as I can, having to deal with the chaos and the bullshit that is my life. Yeah. Regardless of who created said bullshit. And so, yeah, and I, when you were talking about the Mummy thing and the mummy wine culture and stuff, and it was thinging to me, you know, like that idea of failure and relating it to, you know, I always.

When I got fired from my job in hospitality, the, and, and kind of came into sobriety, my first thought process was failure. I'd failed to drink like everyone else in hospitality and therefore it wasn't the drinking that was the problem, it was me. The fact that I couldn't handle it. And I, I guess it's similar for mums as well, you know, the mummy wine culture because again, there's this impression that moms can do it all, have it all, have a glass of souvignon, be there at the park, but when you fail, fail, and anyone listening, I'm doing bunny ears fail at being able to do mommy wine culture.

Yeah. That must just throw on an extra layer of shame, which again, fucking drink 

Chloe: on. Well precisely. 'cause mummy culture is having that nice, perfect, you know, stemmed glass with that very crispy white. Wine in it, isn't it? There's pictures, there's manicured nails and all that. Well, for me, it was actually putting my infant child into his buggy, walking two miles because I was too hung over to drive, walking two miles to the local drug drugstore.

Like I wasn't even getting to, to a, a wine shop or, you know, going and buying three bottles of two buck Chuck wine, like the real shitty stuff to go home and start drinking at 2:00 PM 

Shell: Yeah, 

Chloe: I like that. And, and I, I, you know, that was what it was for me. And, and I, you know, but then, but then it was, you know, there was a lot of, I know this is a term we use for Neurodivergence, but there's a lot of masking going on as well.

Mm-hmm. We don't present that on Instagram. 

Mm-hmm. 

Chloe: We don't, show that dirty side. We show the, the nice, you know, the nice beige side of everything. Mm-hmm. And we don't talk about, well, what's really going on behind the scenes. And that kind of masking is something that I have utilized. When you asked what it was like for me growing up in that environment, it was fake it till you make it.

I mean, in cracking. Um, because I'm not wealthy. I don't have what my friends have, I feel totally less than. Um, and now I have to pretend that I am, I am who the person that I believe they want me to be. Mm-hmm. And I dragged that throughout my entire life. Like this attachment to material wealth and like this, you know, I have.

I have never been in such a state financially as I am right now. Um, and that's really difficult for me to say because I pretend rich and I pretend rich really well. You know, I, and that is a facade that I still struggle to let go of. You know, I have my nice jewelry, I dress well, um, and I work to present.

And, but why is presenting being wealthy so important to me? I mean, that is vapid and lacks depth and soul and is so contradictory to. Who I really am in terms of out, in terms of worldly compassion and, and ethical and moral value and code, but I cannot let it go. And that was how I got into jewelry because I was like, I'm broke, but I don't want to look broke, so mm-hmm.

I'm going to make it. So I don't have to buy it. 

Shell: Well, I was gonna say, and, and I, and, and that's that entrepreneurial spirit, which I think is so beautiful about creators and makers and small business owners. Um, they often, the businesses are often, um, the result of them wanting something and it not being around.

And that one person has the bravery or stupidity to go, fuck it, I'll do it myself then. And we teeter between the two of those hourly. Um, so I mean, you left a job, um, you and I actually left our jobs quite similar times and decided to be freelance because we're both insane. Um, and you left a, a good job, a well-paid job that you've been for years, hadn't you?

And you were like that it doesn't align anymore. And I think also that's a really interesting, um, part of sobriety. Um. Recovery from any kind of, um, anything to be honest, is that inability to continue to wear a mask and to continue to be unauthentic. And I also left a job that was, I mean, the pay was fine.

Um, it was very average pay. Um, and it was within my industry that I'd worked my entire career. And I fucking, and the people were lovely, but I was just so bored. So bored. And the pain of sitting in front of a laptop every day, like it felt like physical pain, having to do something and my head's screaming at me, this is boring.

This is boring. This is boring. Yeah. Which is why I did it. And I know that was similar for you, but kind of tell us a bit about your journey and then the first in, in incarnation, is that a word? The first birth, I'll use that word instead. 'cause I think I made something up, um, of your first jewelry line, which is used to be rich.

Chloe: Yeah. So yeah, so my, my walkaway, my corporate runaway experience was dreadful. I had burnt out so badly. I was speaking in tongues. I hadn't slept for six weeks. I was leading three projects that were company-wide. So they were to go out to 10,000 employees, three of them at the same time, all of which were urgent.

I was paid as a senior administrator instead of financially remunerating me. They just kept adding words to my title. So I ended up with a very senior title, um, and never getting sort of financially compensated for my progression. Um, and I burned out. I hit the floor. I completely, like, I couldn't.

I couldn't parent, I couldn't get out. I, I was hallucinating. It was, I couldn't speak, I dunno if you remember. It was so bad. 

Shell: And I actually, I just wanna pause on that for a quickly for a second because we've talked about burnout a few times on this podcast, and it's something that you and I are so passionate about because there is so much, um, misconception and maybe misuse sometimes of language around burnout.

Um, but burnout. True burnout. It was exactly the hallucinations I had as well. Um, and the symptom, the, or the cause that people don't know about is when you become completely, you lose your identity within a role. And this is why it happens in companies, you know? So you had become, your title was no longer what you were, and your company just continued to take advantage of that.

And that takes the onus off the person, oh, she's burnt out because she should be more resilient. She should have more breaks. Why doesn't she do, you know, and all that. And it is actually when you are literally stripped of your purpose, identity, and exploited to a level that you lose your very core.

Yeah. That's fucking burnout. Yeah. And that's what happened to you. And me not in my previous job at before. 

Chloe: Yeah. It was a physical, it was a physical manifestation. I was sick and I was sicker. Like I have been sick, I've been dope sick. I've been all sorts of sick. I've, you know, alcohol, poison, you name it.

I have been, it, I have never been as sick as I was. 

Yeah. 

Chloe: And it got to the point where I went, I went on a mental, my, my manager was like, I had, I had resigned three times and she's like, I don't believe you want to leave this job. She's like, sign off, sign, get signed off. Get signed off. 

Shell: I'm laughing 'cause I can remember how many times you did it.

And we were like, as your friends going, I really feel she does wanna quit. Yeah. Yeah. Why won't they let her? Because you were being exploited and they didn't wanna get lose you. 

Chloe: Yeah. And so, so I. I, she made me, she, she had me go to the GP and get signed off, and I got signed off, and then the business can proceeded to call me every single day.

And I, I know that there's a whole bunch of employment law implications with that. I, I, there was no touching that for me at that time. I was not, I literally was awake for six weeks. I was not safe in a car. I was not fit to parent. I, and I just exploded and quit. They called me. I was not functioning. I was already hysterical.

And I exploded and quit. And at this point I was suicidal. I didn't think I was going to survive. I thought I had lost my mind and that I had, I was psychotic and needed to be committed, and I thought that my children would do better without me. That I was going, I was a danger to them, a literal danger to them.

And yeah. And that's fucking burnout. People. It's burnout. And it was awful. And I tried to have myself committed. And if you know anything about me, my, my, my ex-husband is in, on the west coast of the United States and my children go there every summer and it all sort of coincided. And I was petrified, petrified that the moment their dad picked them up at Heathrow to take them back to America, I didn't think I was going to survive.

Now that they were gone and they were safe, I did not need to exist anymore. And I was over a year sober. I was some, I had commitments. I was showing up. I was showing up and saying like, I can't do this. But I was showing up and I did not think I was gonna make it through the day. I genuinely thought, this is it.

It has turned, it has gone. And the recovery from that. Has taken, we're uh, we're now coming up to almost the one year anniversary of it. And it hasn't, it has still not resolved, you know. Oh, it takes years to recover from burnout. Yeah. And so if you ever do, yeah. If you ever do. And so there in the wake of that, when I sort of started to come to a couple of months later and I was picking up my other medicine, so I was shopping online 'cause I'm not working and I'm, you know, I had all this free time and I didn't know what to do, but I couldn't really get outta bed 'cause I wasn't well enough to do anything healthy.

Um, and I was like, shit, in, in, in a month or two, I'm not gonna have any income. Like, why am I gonna pay for a, a gemstone necklace from this company for 250 quid when I've been making them my whole life? Like. I'll just make one for myself. And I made it, you know, and I, I duped it. And that's what used to be Rich was born out of, because it was born out of this need and this desire to fuck the man, you know, and to say, you broke me.

Now I'm gonna like, save the world with, you know, ethically priced and fairly priced jewelry and stuff like that. And obviously, you know, things don't really work out, um, in, in regards to, well it's, you know, there's a reason these things are priced the way they're priced because the cost of goods and import and anyway.

Yeah. 

Shell: But again, I think that's so interesting as well because, you know, you started a business very much like, you know, a lot of us do, whether it's, um, a product business, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's anything like I say, with this fire, with this desire to do something different. You see it on the high street all the time where there's these little dessert bars opening and you think, oh God, please don't tell me you've sunk your whole life savings into that because you are right.

You and I have had a stark awakening in as much as, um, we now have to price our time, our creativity, all of those things. And add it in, because you're right, there is a reason why things are priced the way they are. Not always, but frequently. 

Chloe: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we we're in an economic time of austerity, like people are not spending money.

Mm-hmm. Because none of us have any. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and even the ones that are make, uh, earning, you know, even when I was well employed and earning really well, you know, I, I had enough for my lifestyle, but there wasn't really anything left over that. There was nothing. Absolutely. So then to, you know, so that was, that was a big slap in the face, I think.

And then also I changed because I got, I, I don't know, I. Got put back together. Yeah. By it and by showing up. And you know, I'm sitting there freaking out about, I'm like, I'm burnt out, I wanna die. And my sponsor's like, go to a meeting. And I'm like, no, I need to go to a doctor because I want to kill myself.

Like, are you not hearing me? Like, I want to die. I don't want to do this. And she's like, you need to go to a meeting and fucked. If she wasn't right, I needed to go to a meeting. Yeah. 

Shell: I know your sponsor. She sucks. No, she's always right. 

Chloe: But you know, like, so I dug back into AA when I thought like I wasn't favorable or whatever, you know, I thought I was beyond saving.

I thought I needed anti-psychotics. I needed to be, you know, in a white bound, you know, walled room. I, I literally, and I just. Spent my time back in aa. 

Shell: You just needed to be with your people. Yeah. You needed to be with your tribe. That's one of my favorite things again about recovery and, and again, this is recovery from everything, um, is finding that connection and validation and community.

I get it when I talk to people like yourself who have fi, fibromyalgia, um, I get it when I talk to people who are late diagnosed A DHD, I get it from when I talk to people who are recovering from drugs, alcohol, all of that, you know, I need to be around my people because the moment I'm not around those people who have gone through some kind of recovery that I can relate to, it's when I start to go back to little Shell who is the little tiny scared.

Frightened, um, ball of nothingness. Really just, you know, like a ribble. 

Chloe: I do want to caveat that by saying if you are having thoughts of suicide, if you are having thoughts of harming yourself or others, you must re, you must get in touch with medical services. A hundred percent. It was, AA was intrinsic in, in my heart healing.

It was important for me to heal and to be around love and to be carried by my fellows. When I couldn't, I literally couldn't stand up on my own. But I will say very clearly, I was seeing my GP several times a week. I had told, um, my family and my partner about my suicidal ideations. I was monitored by an adult round the clock for months.

I was not alone. Yeah. Um, I think that's really important to say as well because it, when you get to that point 

Yeah. 

Chloe: You know, there is, there is a huge safety element and you have that visible line. Yeah. So I, and 

Shell: I'll put all in the show notes, there's always going to be links to exactly that, to play pool and places that can help you.

Um, so if you are listening and you're really relating to what Chloe's saying, like please do look in the show notes for links to all sorts of different organizations. Um, and, and I mean we've talked a bit about being moms and stuff. Um, well you being a mom. Um, and um, the other thing that you and I are now relating before I talk about where your business is now because that reminded me is our second puberty perimenopause.

And, um, it's been a topic again that we've talked about a few times on this show because, um, last year when I was screaming in the GP surgery. I am going to kill myself unless you let me have HRTI don't care that I am too young doing my bunny ears again, guys too young. My symptoms are not going and I, I had the smorgasbord, I even had the weird symptoms that like, you know, no one gets, and yet I was still not getting it 'cause I wasn't too young.

Now that was something that you were also going through. Yeah. On top of it all. Yes. I mean, how's that been? 

Chloe: I was, yeah, so for years I've been going through all these hormonal problems in America. I was, you know, it was, they were looking at my thyroid. I came here. Yeah. I just said, well you're stressed. And I was like, okay.

Shell: Very stressed. Very well. 'cause you've also got an underactive thyroid like me, or have you? Yeah, 

Chloe: I do. I have an underactive thyroid, but I'm borderline. So this is the thing is because it's super underactive, they were like, well, we're not gonna do anything about it. And so. Oh yes. This, this has been just the argument for seven years.

So then I got into this age where I was in my forties and I'm paying attention to, again, what's happening around me. And the topical menopause is coming up, which I feel like is now we are in the, we're in the danger zone of it, going to a catchall, like, oh, you're a woman, you're over 40 and you have an ache.

Or you think there's a lump in your breast or something. And they're like, oh percent, HRT and, and I. And that's, I mean, that's just as useless. But yeah, so I, no one was helping me. So I went private a little over a year ago for, um, HRT. Amazing. It did not work for me. I think, 'cause 

Shell: there are so many, again, people listening, it doesn't automatic, there are so many different types and things like that.

I didn't know this. 

Chloe: And, and I just, it did not work for me, if anything. And I bet you 

Shell: felt like 

Chloe: a 

Shell: fucking failure. 

Chloe: Oh, it was just, I, I, I've just, I, I felt like there was no, I felt like I was doomed. Mm. A life of pain to a life. Mm-hmm. Of, I mean, it's not, it's beyond brain fog. It's like, it's, it's jello brain.

Like it was just, I, I literally thought I was bedbound for life at that point. Mm-hmm. Um, what started to, you know, at three months ago in discussions with the gp, I went back on HRT under the care of a doctor, not a private practice, that weren't really monitoring me amongst their, you know, tens of thousands of women.

That's shame. Putting on high dose HRT. Um, and I, shit you not, my life has changed. 

Shell: Yeah. 

Chloe: And it, I mean, it's so profound. It's so profound. I mean, yes, it's from things like. I'm going to bed now again at 10 30 and waking up at six 30. Yeah. Which for me, for the last several years has, has not been a thing I, 

Shell: so important.

Chloe: I mean, just, I still can't think of words. My brain fog is not improving, but 

Shell: yeah, we've still got fibro, so it's not like a, that's the thing, you know, it doesn't take the fibromyalgia away. 

Chloe: My quality of life, like, I went to three, um, three commitments yesterday. Not necessarily AA related, but appointments, whatever you wanna call it.

I haven't been able to do that in mm-hmm. Like, I could maybe make a timed thing once a day and if I had a timed thing, let's say at three o'clock I was paralyzed until three. Game over not doing that, and I made it to three plus an impromptu pajama walk to the sport, know.

And that's unheard of. So my quality of life has completely altered. And I think that that's what was the, uh, you know, a catalyst in when I said, you know, what used to be rich is fantastic, and I love what I'm doing, but it's not authentic. It was born outta fear. It was born out of wanting to really fuck the man.

And it was called Yeah, rich, which I find really funny and pithy. I love it. I love it. But like it wa it wasn't landing 

Shell: with the general population. Um, just do it as a collection though still. 'cause I still love it. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Because like you just said, like that first, I think 'cause you come out, you and I, we come out of a trauma situation with burnout, with like losing my job and all of that.

And my first season of we recover loudly, um, which was focused in the hospitality industry was all rage based. Now if I listen back, they're fantastic episodes, exceptional conversations. But there is, like you said, there's a lot of rage because I was fucking hurt. 

Yeah. 

Shell: By what had been done to me. I take my part in it, like we do that as grownups and we're responsible adults.

But even when you take your part in that, in that like it's, I was so hurt. Oh yeah. And I needed to rage. And now I've evolved these conversations and that's exactly what you are doing. So in a weird way, it's like, I love how you've been very open about the fact you haven't hidden, used to be rich. You haven't gone like, oh God, no one's watching.

Thank God. Let me hide that. Because there were plenty of people watching. You've got a very, you know, you've built a really good following in such a small time and you've owned that as part of the journey. So used to be Rich is now a side collection I've decided, but used to be, um, and, and used 

Chloe: to be Rich is not dead.

You know, I love making gemstone jewelry. I, I I, and hand nodding is cathartic and I love it. And it's, but I couldn't fully be myself. Like I, I, there is a limitation to what you can do with gemstone beads and it never sat well with me that I, you know. I felt like I was putting together other people's creation.

Mm. So someone, you know, other people had farmed and hand cut and, and arranged those beautiful gemstones. Mm. Someone else had, you know, created the silk thread. I bought the findings that I used for my, you know, clasps, et cetera. So I was taking other people's things and putting them together, and that wasn't deep enough into the craft for me.

I wanted to be making it like, I, I, and, and my whole life has been fear-based. Like, I have never had the, the courage to go and learn a trade or to learn something or to say, all right, I'm gonna rewind. Years and years and years, and I'm gonna go back to zero and admit I and start again. But I knew at some point that I was never going to have complete fulfillment.

And whilst the, the act of creating that jewelry was authentic,

there is this, this grit and grace that we talk about. I am not pale pink rose quartz, hand knotted on soft pink thread. I, I'm not that person. I could not convey my message through gemstones. It was not me. I could not get me into it no matter how much I tried. Even using, you know, this sounds a bit silly, but using neon threads and using, you know, utilizing things that I thought were flashes of my personality.

I couldn't put myself into what I was making and. I'm not ready to give up, but I am able to say to myself, A, you are not doing what you want to do. You are trying to take a shortcut, and B, this is not good enough. 

Mm-hmm. 

Chloe: Like, this is, this is not it. and so I had to come to Jesus and I just was like, yeah, I'm gonna eat it and I'm gonna start over and I'm gonna do it properly.

I love that silversmithing diplomas and new set of tools and being brand new, having no idea how to, no idea at 43 and saying, I'm gonna scrap everything I've done up until this point and I'm gonna start over. And, you know, I, I, um. I hold jewelry making and silversmithing or metalsmithing in general in high esteem.

It is a traditional craft that you know, now obviously there are diplomas in schools and courses, but it's been handed down generationally. Like it's something that has existed centuries, bef, you know, they were, I mean, you know, we're talking about primitive man with fashioning, you know, jewelry and to a, to a degree in a different manner.

Mm-hmm. But it's 

Chloe: something, it's a traditional craft. Yeah. And I'm not into a space and say, okay, I'm gonna do this the cheap and quick way. 'cause I've seen that happen in other traditional crafts. Tattooing, you know, is a generational, traditional craft that has been blasphemed by, you know, kids coming in and just wanting to do it and blow up on Instagram and not, you know, no apprenticeship, no nothing.

You know, and I can say that because my partner is a, I was 

Shell: gonna say, your partner's a tattoo artist. 

Chloe: Yeah. And my ex-husband is a barber, another industry that has been Mm, traditional industry, uh, barbering and men's grooming is a traditional handed down craft that is being completely blasphemed by people that wanna get some neck tattoos and, and build up an Instagram following and cut some men's hair, but don't really know how to do it.

Mm. And be trusted with a straight razor. And I see, I see jewelry crafting and metalsmithing in that same, just as, you know, a cobbler and, yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't know what they're called horseshoe makers and like these traditional.

Dress makers, you know, these, these traditional crafts and skills that exist, but they exist because of a generational love and handing down a skill. And I did not want to walk into jewelry making saying, okay, well I'm gonna grab components from other people with skills. Yeah. And I'm gonna put these bits together and I'm gonna try and sell it to you.

Um, at a premium with my name on it. That just didn't feel real to me. No disrespect for PE to people that are doing it. Some people have a real bond with that type of thing, but it wasn't, it wasn't mine. It wasn't my par. 

Shell: And, and, and exactly that. And I think, like you say, for some people it does work. And then there is a market for that as well.

And you know, I think most of us will tiptoe into all of those different markets. You know, I love my, my Zilla kids, um, clothes jumpers that have all been, you know, you, you order, they're, they're not trading at the moment, but you order one and you get it about four weeks later because they're hand applicating everything, you know?

And I love that. And then, you know, I do also unfortunately, sometimes buy things that are not quite so ethical. I think we're all guilty of that. I mean, to be fair, what is ethical these days? You go to Marks and Spencer's and think you're like doing the right thing and it's fucking bullshit. It's been the sweat shop.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole nother podcast. Um, but I just, I love, also, by the way, I love the name Grit and Grace. There's a new name if you're gonna rebrand again. Grit and grace. I'm gonna do the tagline. I think I was gonna say, that's a fucking brilliant jewelry line. I'm gonna abandon socks. And suddenly, oh, I can do a sock that once says, grit, and one says grace.

Well, I love that. I should write that down and I'm gonna edit this bit out. What do you mean, Chloe? You wanna getting any money for this? Um, oh my God, I'm literally gonna do that. Um, but I really love, love, love, love, love, love. And I, I wonder if it is a gift of recovery and therefore, again, recovering from an eating disorder, recovery from addiction, recovery, from anything.

There's something about being broken down to the very, the smallest parts of essence of who you are and then getting the. Choice with support, which we've had. Family, uh, communities, whatever, to pick what we build ourselves back up with. And that's such a unique, um, a unique journey and a unique just thing to do that other people don't.

Which I think, which is why people in recovery are so fucking brilliant. It's, it's a, it's a privilege, a fucking gnarly privilege most of the time. But we get to choose what bricks and I love that you've gone, that brick was actually not something I wanna hold onto as a core. It's not gonna be my foundation.

I needed it at the time because I've released some of that anger and I've moved and the cathar cathartic. I think that's it. Um, of that action I think is actually more important than pretending you don't have to do it. Yeah. And almost kind of like sitting with that anger in your body as we know it sits, you know?

Um, and I just, yeah. I'm so inspired by everything that you've just said because I think that, I think that that's, you know, we have a, your sponsor who is a, a dear friend of both of us has, uh, once said to me many years ago when something bad had happened, um, you, and obviously at the time I was like, shut up.

She's like, you're not gonna understand why this is happening to you right now and it's gonna hurt, but one day you're gonna look back and it's all gonna make sense. Yeah. And I treasured that she said that, 'cause I use it all the time, recycle it as my own. Um, be because she was right. Um, and it's exactly like that.

You know, you and I would never wish what we've been through on anybody. And yet there is gratitude 

Chloe: and I think it's, we are both in blessed. Positions to have been allowed to rebuild because if I had not ha if I, you know, there are many people that in our situations have to go back immediately Yeah. Um, to jobs that are gonna suck them dry, ruin them, break their spirit, not get to recover fully.

And, and we've been given that, um, and we have had the, the blessing of time to, you know, to, to fumble along a bit a bit and really hone in on what it is that we, we need and to listen to our higher powers, the universe and, and try to hear the message. And I think, you know, I think for me.

Trying to figure out where my will lies in relation to the universe's plan, uh, versus, you know, has been really important to me. I think, you know, with used to be Rich, there was that, that gut feeling that this, this wasn't right. You know? Yeah. And, and with this transition, because it's take, it's much harder.

It's gonna take a lot longer. It's going to, it's, it's, it's, you know, gonna take a lot more Mm, written grace. Um, 

Shell: yeah. I mean, I've seen one of your first little pieces. There's work to be done, but it's also,

she sure. No, no, because it's fucking, no, I think they're absolutely amazing. I think it's absolutely amazing and I love that you're sharing them. I think they're so cool. It's, well, I, because it's real. 

Chloe: Because it's real. It is what, it's, it's fucking real. And I, you know, I think that, you know, in terms of what the vision is or the goal is with, with Olivia, danger is that, and I kind of talked about it on a post that now has no reach because the algorithms, what have you.

But, but what I want to achieve is, is perfection in the presentation. You know, like these, these, I'm, you know, as you have seen, I'm doing charms right now with sort of words on them. Um, and they're on discs. And I want the disc to be perfect. I want it to be smooth. I want it to be really refined. So the measurements to be proper for it to be properly, you know, filed and sanded and polished.

But the messaging to be

gritty, you know, like. Definitely. And so I want there to be that element of lux and luxury and time spent honing and working on the craft and doing it properly. But I don't want to lose the aggression or the anger or the sentiment and the feeling and the emotion that goes into the piece. Mm-hmm. So I'm trying to find that, you know, and yes, my ch the chance that I've done so far, I've, you know, A, the ones I'm really trying to perfect are fuck and riot.

I love them both. Those are not, you know, riot and rebellion and rage is not glossy and scripted and pretty like that is. That's fire, you know? Yeah. Like soul on fire, and I don't want to lose that element of it, but I want the actual workmanship and the craftmanship to be worthy. 

Shell: If that makes sense. A hundred percent.

And I think, and that's what we want. We need that, we need more. We need more of those outlets, I think. A hundred percent. And I think that that is just such a perfect dichotomy of the two elements, and I'm so excited to not only wear them, um, but I see them out in the world. And just to see how this whole, um, yeah, this next chapter, uh, develops.

And I really appreciate your honesty because you know, again, as always, you know, we share the good times on Instagram because that's what the algorithm likes. But the reality is, um, much like a post that I shared, um, well as recording I shared yesterday, I shared a post of me smiling in front of a bin fire.

Um, because I realized how stuck I was. And I am stuck with some branding stuff and bits and bobs. Um, and I know that I need to. Put some work into it, but you just freeze. So, you know, I know the way that you've just described that inspires me today, and I'm sure many others will now go and quit their jobs and become horseshoe makers.

Chloe: But I mean, the reality of what we are doing and what we haven't really touched on is the fact that failure Yeah. Is more probable than success. 

Shell: Yeah. 

Chloe: And that failure sits right here. Like I, I, I am, I am acutely aware of the fact that I have potentially thrown away thousands and thousands of pounds that I have taken outta my children's mouths in some ways and put towards this goal and this dream that no matter how much work I put into it, no matter how good I am, might never become a viable business like that.

Hangs right. Like that, that exists. That exists. Um, but it might, is 

Shell: that the reality like, and success, what success looks like, I think as well will evolve. Yes, agreed. And what success right now in both of our heads might look like. So I feel like a failure because my socks are not on a catwalk in New York.

And the, you know, all of the celebrities who are sober aren't wearing them equals failure. The fact is that I've sold, um, I dunno, something like 300 pairs of to people, which means there are 300 people in the UK right now who are proud enough to stand up in their recovery and walk around with a sock that says sober punt.

Yeah. That needs to be, that is success. Yeah. And if there's never more success than that, that's pretty fucking, that's a pretty good day at work, you know? Yeah. And because the magic is someone sees that much like you with yours, jewelry, they see that and it empowers them to think about, wow, maybe I could do that.

Maybe I could be that person. So, 

Chloe: yeah. And I have worn them very publicly, not remembering. And my mom actually point, 'cause I grew up being told that the C word was the absolute worst word, best word you could ever say. It was the most insulting, terrible greeting. You must never say that word. And so I wore them to my mom's house, you know, socks pulled up, shorts on like.

Skater boy from Venice. There I am. And my mom's like, what does that say on your socks? And I was like, oh, sorry. 

Shell: Oh, okay. So I'm not invited to mom's. Then 

Chloe: we're gonna send, you know, we are gonna send them far and wide, like Yeah. And this is also like fellowship. I am as invested in your business.

As you are. Well, exactly. You know, I want to 

Shell: help you. Do you want to give me some money? Is this what you're saying? You want to invest? If I had some, if I had, that's what we all heard, isn't it? Listeners, we're gonna end the podcast there so that Chloe can, uh, get my bank details. Chloe, it is so, so bloody wonderful.

I'm really, really glad that we've, um, rerecorded. Um, I love the first episode that we recorded. Maybe one day I'll release parts of it, but I just think that this has been really, um, I just think it's really important to show up as you have authentically and deliver a truth, um, that is, yeah. That is aligned with where you are now versus where you were three months ago.

Yeah. So thank you for doing that and for your vulnerability. Oh, well, thank you for having me. It's, 

Chloe: it's always, I've, I feel so chuffed that you, that you think people might even care or that you, you know, because. 

Shell: Oh, they'll care. We'll make them care. We'll make them care. Thank you so much and anybody who wants to, um, know more about Chloe and about Olivia Danger, all the links and everything again, will be in the show notes.

So thank you so much for being here.