We Recover Loudly – Personal Recovery and Mental Health Stories

S3 Episode 010 *Special Edition* Steve Lawson: Recovering Loudly … Recovery, Community & Showing Up Sober

• Shell Righini • Season 3 • Episode 10

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In this special episode, Shell is joined by Steve Lawson, community researcher at the Essex Recovery Foundation, ahead of the weekend’s Essex Recovery Festival - a celebration of connection, visibility, and healing through community. 

Steve shares his powerful personal journey from military life and working fatherhood, to depression, addiction, and the moment he knew something had to change. Now two years sober, he reflects on how recovery transformed not just his life, but his relationships, identity and gave him purpose. 

Together, they explore: 

  • How alcohol is normalised (and glamorised) in British culture
  • The hidden link between mental health and substance use
  • The myth of “functioning addiction” and the danger of waiting until it's too late
  • Men’s mental health and why it’s still so hard to talk about
  • Why recovery isn’t boring — it’s expansive, joyful and full of second chances

Steve also shares what to expect from this year’s Essex Recovery Festival, including breathwork, sound healing, axe throwing (!), live music, and the kind of connection that can change lives.   

Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or still figuring it out this episode shows what real recovery looks like when it's rooted in community, not shame. 

https://www.essexrecoveryfoundation.org/festival

https://www.essexrecoveryfoundation.org/

For more information on We Recover Loudly and to reach out for speaking engagements or support email hello@werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly
www.werecoverloudly.com


Shell: Hello and welcome to this special edition of We Recover Loudly in collaboration with the Essex Recovery Foundation and Festival.

Shell: I am joined by Steve Lawson, a community researcher with the foundation who has come along to discuss, a little bit about his experience with recovery, the work he does with the Essex Recovery Foundation and why spaces such as the Essex Recovery Festival, which is held in August. This year, are so important, not just for people who are in recovery, but also their friends, their families too.

Shell: Steve, welcome to the podcast. 

Steve: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. 

Shell: Oh, you are very, welcome. How long have you, worked with the Essex Recovery Foundation? 

Steve: Just over a year. I've been a community researcher, but I was a volunteer with them a year before that. 

Shell: That's awesome. And, were they a part of, your own recovery?

Shell: Were they some, a service that you reached out to when you were looking for help? 

Steve: I was in, unit six, community rehab program. In 2023. on week four we went out to do a walk and talk with BR, and that's when I first met them. And I was instantly. They got me engaged because they were just so relaxing, Just felt, yeah, just felt relaxed and at ease with them. And, these people had history, some history of being in recovery themselves or their families. Yeah. yeah, I just tagged along with them. they just stood out for me. So that's my first encounter with ERF. 

Shell: And was the, was that kind of your first time of going into recovery or are you a bit like me, you've dipped your toe in and then gone Oh no, I'm not that bad.

Shell: And then tipped your toe back in and gone. Oh shoot. Maybe I am that bad. 

Steve: Yeah. I was suffered for about, into rehab. I've suffered about, about 10 years on and off. With addiction and Yeah. I just didn't think I was that bad. Until I got really bad, I was functioning, I was working. I felt like I was being a normal person, a normal family person, and it just got to a stage.

Steve: The reason I started drinking heavily was my mental illness. I was suffer from depression. 

Steve: And that's how I just dealt with it, and I just dealt with drinking more and the weekends got longer. I was going out earlier. Then all of a sudden, I think the last three, the last six months, I'd say my relationship with alcohol was not a good one.

Steve: I was drinking very heavily on my own. Every time I got really, drunk, I'd try to, I'd say, harm myself or, or commit suicide, and I've been on, in, hospital a couple of times. Yeah. So my relationship with alcohol was terrible, a lot of people, I was fucked.

Steve: I was fucked. I where, if I don't get help, I was gonna end. Drinking heavily or through something I'd done. 

Shell: So relatable for so many people that are listening. I dunno about you, but when I first started drinking alcohol, for me it was a pretty banal relationship.

Shell: You hear a lot of people who have that first drink and it's almost blackout straight away. It's, it goes to the chaos. But for me it was quite a long journey into chaos. That sounds similar for you. It 

Steve: is. Yeah, because I was in the military for some time and that's, definitely a drinking sort of environment.

Steve: And when you come out, when I, and every sporting event we ever did was always ended up drinking. It was just that, what they called binge drinking now, but it was just that social drinking and it was just normal for me. And I could finish when I want, when the last bill went, I won't bob, it just, you just went home and I'd start again on the Saturday, but then it just, yeah, just.

Steve: Spun out, even though it was a long period, it just, and it felt to me like it just happened overnight . 

Steve: Think that, yeah, I didn't think I was all right, but I wasn't asleep, thought I was a good dad and I thought I was good husband, I was going work. I got to a stage where I was waking up every morning looking in the mirror saying, don't have a drink today.

Steve: Don't have a drink today. And by half one, I'm having a drink, and I'll just get absolute. Blank stage where I blank out, I black out. And that's, and that was, it. That was my relationship with drink. 

Shell: I used to, I hate that cycle. you'd wake up in the morning feeling rotten from the night before.

Shell: You'd promise yourself, today's the day I am not gonna drink. And, you get to about lunchtime and you think, oh, I'm feeling all right now. 'cause I, in, one way, I feel hangovers are almost a gift, whereas I didn't really get hangovers. So yeah, by lunchtime, bit of a dodgy tummy maybe, or felt a bit nauseous.

Shell: Yeah. I was like, I'll be all right. come the end of work, something that's been stressful. Bit like you, my mental health has never been, certainly as an adult, I've really struggled with mental health. Go home alone and you think, oh, is this it? I guess I'll have a glass of wine. Yeah. And it quickly switches over, doesn't it?

Shell: From that, I don't know. Medicinal relationship into a completely codependent, 

Steve: that's right. Yeah. Because I can't actually put a now on the point that I actually become an addict. I can't, I, don't remember it. it might have been, six years ago. It might have been, two years ago, but yeah, it's crazy.

Steve: It's mental and it's, and it happens. And, most of the people, I, spend a lot of my time in the community of people in recovery and then not these people who sit on park benches in coats with a brown bag With a drink in there. That's, they're not like that. we've all, were someone at one point.

Steve: Just that we got addicted to drink or drugs. 

Shell: Yeah, exactly. we talk about. people being susceptible to addiction, is it as genetic? Is it something that we're born? for me, I've always felt that yeah, there's environmental, influences that perhaps could make you a little bit more, if you are not shown any other coping mechanism perhaps.

Shell: And other than amongst your peers, your family, drinking when things are tough. And, you mentioned it a little bit about military and, Going to sporting events and drinking, and it's very much in our culture. I dunno if you watch East Enders, you must do, you're from that part of the world.

Shell: Steve, if you don't, you have, what's wrong with you 

Steve: there? I watch East Enders, but I'm, I, probably not. Yeah. But yeah. 

Shell: you're missing out Steve. every time something goes wrong in East Enders or any of these kind of shows, which, fine, you don't watch it, but a lot of us do .

Shell: anytime something goes wrong, there's. Straight to the pub. There's a bottle of wine. If you ever actually count How many scenes have got alcohol in them, in a show like East Enders, it's baffling. And that's all we were ever taught, wasn't it? 

Steve: Every show you watch, every show anything in life , it involves alcohol. Alcohol is in your face so much. And even I've spoke to people who go to, you go to the fruit and veg areas in, in, especially in the summer, in Tescos or something like that. It's got alcohol in the end of, so it just, 

Shell: yeah. 

Steve: Everything is established, everything like Christmas, all that.

Steve: It's all about the alcohol. It's about. Oh, it's, that's, and that's where, it's, where it's different. I think, for alcohol, it's in your face and it's so easy, accessible, and it's, and it seemed all right. You know what I mean? you couldn't go to Tescos and get a, a line of Coke. It would be sort out order, but you go and get twos of vodka .

Shell: Yeah. God. Do you imagine the price of cocaine at Tesco's? You think you'd get Tesco fines and then you'd get Tesco the cheap version.

Shell: Literally you'd have it as a meal deal, both like no food 

Shell: But honestly, don't get me started about the gin and the Blueberry isles. Anyone who's listened to this PO podcast knows that I get, and I write or rant about it because I can remember, like you saying, being in very early recovery, and I dunno about you, but a lot of us, when we get about a week's worth of sobriety, we think we've nailed it and we could probably solve world's problems, because we get ego, we're fueled on that ego and also.

Shell: I think fair play. We're fucking proud of ourselves. we've done something we thought we'd never do. And I think that actually that bit of that ego is, and bravado is deserved. But I was walking around spotting things to change and the supermarket alcohol was a massive thing for me, Literally getting some fruit and some berries. 'cause I stopped properly drinking, in, September time of, three, four years ago. So it was still that hangover from hangover, good use of word, of, summer. And it was, just everywhere. And I can remember there being rums, spiced rum specifically at the checkout.

Shell: oh fuck, I forgot my rum. Thank God it's here.

Shell: Do you know? Yeah. And, we have all these rules around chocolate and stuff now at supermarket. checkouts, don't we And yet alcohol seems to, and, it's, again, I think it just makes it so hard when you are people like yourself and myself that we didn't drink, let's say, a alcoholically or dysfunctionally.

Shell: In those beginning years for us to really pull up that white flag and say, fuck, I need help, because society is telling us that we are not the problem. 

Steve: No, exactly. Yeah. We are catching people too late. I think. No, we, should be looking at something a bit earlier because, I, do that.

Steve: I ain't got the answer for that. It just seems that you can only get so much help if you are completely fucked, 

Shell: Yeah, that's so true. Because it almost becomes, like you say, like almost once you've, you see those people on those benches, the stereotypical image of, an alcoholic and addict.

Shell: It's become such a way of life. It is hard. do you, in your role, with Essex, recovery Foundation, do you see people that are that kind of far down and how, what's that experience like trying to help them? 

Steve: must Admit I most of our, yes. Yeah. There is, there are. I do know a few people who comfort can help.

Steve: They go to the service and become part of our community. It's just that, they're just, it's our, their environment. They're living in. Where they could be homeless or they could be living in sheltered accommodation or so they're trying to give up, but they're going back to that environment. They're going back to that environment and they're just, it's really hard for 'em, so there is, there are people out there, but the majority are just people like me, just people who work. Wonder Five got families and stuff, and most of them, like I've said before, is mental illness has just turned to drink.

Steve: Drink and drugs, and. Come for help. Yeah. So we, we, try to build, we try to catch 'em, we have people coming to our, we have recovery spaces around Essex. 

Steve: And they, we meet, we got meet in Essex, we've got Helford, Colchester, Harlow Rail, and we meet up and we have people from the community and some of them have gone through the services.

Steve: some of them have been sober for 20 years. Some of us are just thinking about. Looking at their sobriety or reducing. So it's all different levels really. It's just a shame that, we're not, we can't catch these people earlier because it's just so access. It's acceptable, isn't it?

Steve: Drinking's accessible. Yeah. Me sit. Yeah. Me sitting in the, park, we really rub down, doing drugs is not acceptable. Sitting there, having a laugh, drink loads of, oh, he is having a good time. where most of the time when I was sitting out there, I wasn't having a good time. I was contemplating and I was gonna kill myself.

Shell: Bye. the mental health, element for drinking for me was such a big thing. And I remember I would go to the doctor and say, I'm really struggling with my mental health, asking for help with maybe medications, therapy.

Shell: And, they'd say to me, how much are you drinking? And you'd be like, glass a week maybe. 

Steve: it's not the standard four units, 

Steve: Four units a week. 

Shell: And I know it sounds really obvious, but I didn't really consider the fact that the medication they were giving me was not gonna work if I was drinking.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. when I went to the, when I went to the doctors, first of all got, I got, on antidepressants, they were drinking, was involved, and I, was never sort, it was never looked at by a drinking problem and my mental illness, but the same thing. It seemed to have sorted mental ill health out then.

Steve: Then we'll sort your drinking out or go and sort your drinking out in mental health. Never. I never, thought, why am I such a miserable get, 'cause I'm drinking. It's 'cause my only person ain't working because I'm drinking so much. I don't think there's Enough education in it. or do we not want hear that?

Shell: We might as well have been taking Tic Tacs, but you are right. It's 

Steve: yeah, 

Shell: I think because deep down, certainly for me, deep down we might know that is the problem, but let's be honest, it's sometimes it is the only thing that's keeping a lot of us going in that moment.

Shell: And people sometimes you see them share on Instagram or in meetings like I do, and they'll say, alcohol saved my life. I might be an alcoholic or an addict, but alcohol or drugs saved my life. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be here still. can you relate to that sentiment at all?

Steve: yeah, definitely. I hear that time when I talk to my friends and people in recovery, it did save their lives. It was somewhere nice to go at the time and somewhere comforting and you don't know what you would've done. I think one thing I have learned is there's a reason for everything, I think.

Steve: One, I think I believe that, and also it helps me to believe that there's a reason I put myself and others through that shit. Because today where I am, I'm, working for a charity that's helping, is building a visible recovery community, to, to use their voice. To influence our service functions and change the perceptions of addiction and recovery.

Steve: So that's, if I, can sit here today and think I had to go, if I didn't go through that shit, then I wouldn't be doing this job today and I wouldn't be helping people , and being part of that team that does help people. So if I, have to, take that away if it's true or not, because I have to have some reason of why I went through that crap.

Steve: I was through it. 'cause at the time I didn't think I was, I thought it was just about me. I didn't, it's not that I didn't give a shit about anyone else, it was just, I didn't have any boundaries. Didn't have values. 

Steve: And I thought I was all right. I thought I was just a funny old dad that everyone, was used to or, friend, but I wasn't.

Steve: I was an ass. 

Shell: Yeah. Most bizarre. 

Steve: Yeah. 

Shell: look, you might have been a ass, I definitely was, but we were also people in pain. And again, I think that's, we sometimes, that humanization of addiction gets forgotten. That, people don't pick up drinking and alcohol, and drug taking or, other addictions, food addiction, shopping, gambling.

Shell: I've always forget that. gambling these days is just through the, yeah. Opioids, all of that. Nobody picks these things up because they're having a lovely time. And it really is. It's, these people who. Should. It's the compassionate part that we sometimes, or not sometimes, frequently miss, it seems.

Shell: yeah. That they're in pain. 

Steve: Yeah. I stigma is that we, people like myself are choosing this as a life choice. We want, we don't, we are in pain. And I think, I think people are, there are still people around me that still think. I could have stopped it anytime you want and all that stuff.

Steve: I didn't, couldn't, 

Shell: you can't, 

Steve: can you. 

Shell: I don't, yeah, and I think, and I'm much like that you've identified with, what you do with, Essex Recovery Foundation, which I wanna talk about more in a second. But I do just wanna talk about kind of men and men's mental health and again, the sporting events and going and having the drinking as a part of it, and that male culture because like you just said, what are you gonna do?

Shell: Be the only one not doing that. That must have really, and, talk about your mental health like. what would, 10 years ago, Steve have talked about his mental health with his mates, or it just doesn't seem to be the done thing, right? 

Steve: Yeah. But that, that, yeah, that environment. No, you wouldn't, you just, you wouldn't, it would be that same old answer.

Steve: How are you? I'm fine. And that's it. You move on. And if if you had anything, oh, her indoor, gimme a chip and all that stuff , it would be just, yeah. Stuff. And I suppose it. People would see it as a weakness where actually talking about, how you are feeling, talking about your, past and, the stuff and stuff that's affecting you every day is a sign of strength.

Steve: And I think that has changed. It's certainly changed my very close friends. my little group I'm with, I've known me since I was a social drinker up to when I was in, an alcoholic. They've changed. we socialize, we, go and play badminton. We go and play tennis, we'll go to the park.

Steve: We, we started having breakfast clubs, And, we all talk. We would all talk , So I think he is changing. And also I've got nephews and nephews who, Phil, the film is why, go? 40 minutes of football and not, for a little warmup, they'd go down the pub for three hours and not talk about anything .

Steve: Now they're going for a walk. You know what I mean? They're going for walks all together and socializing, going for a coffee. I think it is changing, but, I only a very little bit. 

Shell: Yeah. 

Steve: blokes, I'm very, even though bumped up, to counselors and, my peers and stuff, still very, I still find it very hard.

Steve: The recovery community to talk about. 

Steve: My feelings. You still, yeah. 

Shell: Yeah. I think that, and, like you say, it's, difficult, isn't it? It's like being in a, I don't know, a group of. Peacocks and trying to declare that you're actually a penguin. it's hard, it's, yeah.

Shell: Difficult to be that, and yet I'm sure that without, maybe even without you knowing that you've def you would've been a catalyst for change amongst your peers. 

Steve: Yeah. 

Shell: Who now even consider, they might not even speak to you about it, but they may even just consider their own mental health differently and 

Steve: Yeah, I think, yeah, you're definitely right there.

Steve: I think. Is people are a bit more open to it, and I'm sure if they're not having conversations with me, they're having a conversation with someone else. 

Shell: Yeah. I think, and that's a massive part of recovery as well, that, we don't necessarily realize in the beginning when we're going through and look, let's not beat around the bush.

Shell: Early recovery sucks. It's not easy. It does. we don't have a lovely, you don't get to, yeah. You might get to one week sober and you are running on adrenaline and ego and you're just so proud of yourself, but you're also 99% of the, that's 1% of the time. The other 99% of the time, you're missing, your best friend, which was the alcohol that got you through life.

Shell: And it isn't easy. but like you said here, you've having that group and that community and knowing that the things that you are doing isn't just changing your life. It's actually changing. You've mentioned your family. that whole dynamic must have just completely flipped when you came into recovery.

Steve: Oh yeah. It, definitely happened. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. My, I've got two elder daughters and one of them just spent most of her time coming trying to get me outta pubs . And the other one just didn't wanna talk to me. I don't blame her because I was a dick and she, the youngest one lives at home and she was finding every bottle, vodka and whisky everywhere.

Steve: And she'd hear me opening up bottles, it's just, yeah. She. I'd say she hated me. She loved me, but she hated me and I hated that . And my wife, we've been, I'm 58 now and we've been together since I was 16. 

Shell: Wow. So we've been through, 

Steve: yeah. So we've been together a long, time and we've been through some stuff together.

Steve: But I think this was the last, if I hadn't gone into sort, if I hadn't put my hands up and say I need help, that would, I would've been. My own without a, and trying recover on your own, I dunno, my hats off to people into, I was in community rehab and I was every day and I had friends who were going to a little room where it's the, the hallway smell of dope and banging people, banging on their doors and all said money.

Steve: But I was lucky. Yeah. And my relationship with my family now. Two daughters and my wife and my grandson is Abso is absolutely fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. So, it has, changed for the best , and my wife still gets know, she still, I think she still worries when I'm nipping out to the shops. She'll still worry if I'm on my own If I've gone away , and that will take a long time to get away. I've only been, I've only been sober just over two years. So it's early days really, yeah. Amazing. yeah, but I'm not, yeah, I've had a conversation where, talk to people and say, why would you go back?

Steve: Why would you go back to drinking? 

Steve: Why would you go back to that stuff? Because you never go back to that social drinking. You'll just go back to the shittiest time where you'll never go back to sitting rant, having a laugh, having a, a point or two, you'll go back to the hell you just left.

Steve: It still, and, I still can't understand every now and then they'll pop up . Have you, mean it's, and thoughts, but luckily I've got the, I've got the work colleagues and I've got me friends and that's it. And I can just switch off. I just tell myself to fuck off, get them thoughts to go.

Shell: But I think even that, it's really, again, I think we need to be a, have a bit more normalization around that. I'm three and a half, nearly four years into recovery. I still get PS like that. And, it'll, it's a lovely sunny day when we're recording. I know I'm gonna pop to the beach after I know there's gonna be people drinking and yeah, I still get those little flashes thinking, oh, do you know what a, wine, a gin and tonic, something like that would be lovely.

Shell: I've got quite a lot of work on it. The minute, I'd love to turn my brain off for a little bit and just have a bit of a respite. And what we don't need is to be then adding layers of shame over ourselves for having those feelings. Look, they do come, it's okay. Just how we deal with it is the most important thing.

Steve: Yeah. And people, how long do these folks fill? how do they last? I said, I dunno. I'll speak to people who've been 20 years sober and they still get 'em. So you have to live with it. 

Shell: Oh God, yeah. 

Steve: Just don't action on it. And I, must admit, my biggest craving is a strife, is a drive, diet Coke or something, glass.

Steve: that, that's what I love, thought having a beer, I just think, 

Shell: yeah. 

Steve: And I couldn't afford a beer anyway, 

Shell: Tell me about it. that's definitely helped, hasn't it? This whole like price increase on everything in life. Like I look literally it's, I'll go out for dinner with friends who drink.

Shell: 'cause I'm very grateful that I can be around people that I, I couldn't in the beginning, but now I'm very comfortable. so again, there's no shame if you are not in that position yet. But for me now, I can be around people who are drinking. I probably couldn't be around people who were drinking excessively, but, going out for dinner.

Shell: They're having wine. I'm not. And I love it when we get to split the bill and it's oh, 20 quid for me, and they're all like 60 each. I'm like, 

Steve: yeah, it's good. Yeah, I'm go to pub and been too stag, and stuff like that. And when the shots start going out, coming out, then I'll go, 

Shell: yeah. 

Steve: because, 

Shell: then the night gets boring anyway.

Steve: Watch drugs. 

Shell: Yeah. 

Steve: I'm not gonna sit there and, watch dicks. 

Shell: not being funny. Nothing good happens after nine o'clock and at the time people are drinking shots. It's no offense guys, but you're fucking boring. I've heard the same story 27 times about Linda at work and her attitude. 

Steve: No, at least when you, when you're it , you, don't remember any of the stories the next day.

Steve: But when you even get it again, you think. I'm off. 

Shell: Hundred percent. look, tell me a little bit more about, Essex, recovery Festival. Were you involved last year? Is this your first year involved? 

Steve: I was a volunteer last year and I did help set up, but I did actually attend a festival as a party goer.

Steve: And, yeah, it was the first ER F1. And it was, amazing. It was amazing. It was really good. I have, it is my, it was my first festival that I've been to for a long time, but first sober one, and it was just incredible feeling. the relaxation is just a feel of it. And we had so much going on.

Steve: we had, I mean there was, the site was amazing. They had a zip, line, and they had archery and a swimming pool. And I, went out, I clamped. I went clamping. So I was in a po, a posh tent. There was only two of us, but I ended up six of us being in there by the end of the weekend.

Shell: Even in sobriety we're absolutely, you 

Steve: knowable still staying up? Yeah, we still staying up to two morning laughing and giggling like Yeah. And it was brilliant. Had music on and had workshops. We had AI and ca come along so there was there and yeah, we had, Playing drums, playing Go baths, sound baths and all, yoga.

Steve: And it was, fantastic. And this year it will be our second one and it's gonna even be bigger and better. And I'm part of it this year, but I'm still, going glamping. Nice. and, and, this time they've got the glamping tens, but it's all kited out with double beds and all lighting and stuff, so it's gonna be really, posh.

Steve: Oh, 

Shell: gifts of sobriety, Steve. 

Steve: Yeah. I won't, yeah. And I won't be having six people in there. 

Shell: you've got a double bed now. You can do 12. 

Steve: This is it. Yeah. I'm bringing me wife this year. She did come along for the day last year, but she's coming for the whole weekend. That's, yeah. Got friends. Yeah. I had, fa friends who come, who I, who were not in sobriety, and they, absolutely loved.

Steve: They, said it's one of the best festivals they've been to because it was just so relaxing and unjudgmental and yeah, it was just amazing. Yeah. So this, year, the festival, which is on the eighth , so the 10th of August in lamb born end, all the stuff's available on our website. Yeah. And. With about 20 plus music acts and, from self acoustic sets to dance floor and DJs, I really enjoyed that.

Steve: Last year they had this little DJ set in corner and it was playing all day. I'll say all the nineties stuff and that, but I'm more seventies, eighties. it was brilliant. It was amazing. It was amazing. Yeah. And we got, workshops and experiences. We got breath work, forest bathing, creative sessions.

Steve: We've got ax throwing, the boxing pad workout and sound healing, and we've got talks. So it's really amazingly, it's fantastic. the atmosphere and the people. And the people who, some, the, actually the people in recovery community as someone who've ever met in my life.

Shell: Hundred percent, 

Steve: because we're just, because they're so, honest. Nice. They're just, yeah. They don't judge you. You're not being judged. You don't when to talk to somebody. You're not being judged or nothing, and they're just, and they give you time to ERF are really good at giving you time to flourish. My first relationship was I'd just come out of rehab. Then I just started following around all the little groups they were doing and then I helped set up the Harlow group, then I started volunteering and now work for 'em. They just give you that space to nurture, to, to flourish. and that's why they're so special.

Steve: yeah, so we have a, we have our, recovery spaces and we have our walks and talks every week scattered around Essex. It changes. 

Shell: That's 

Steve: so cool. And we have a, and we have a community fund as well where, we've got, a pot of money and we have people who are in the recovery community, have got ideas about putting on something for the community.

Steve: last year we had people. We had open road who, wanted to, do air cuts for their clients. Just so you know, they going interview. Just make it feel better to have that little pampering and then talking as well, you have your barber and stuff like that. Yeah. And we had our therapy and we've had, so we've got a lot going on.

Steve: Yeah. 

Shell: Yeah. 

Steve: Literally, like you say, 

Shell: it's something for everybody. And like you say, I love that you've said that about like your wife's going this year and staying, and people that aren't in recovery and like you say, they're just, it's such, they're such wonderful, open, accepting, non-judgmental, compassionate spaces where there's no agenda.

Shell: It's just about connecting with each other and it's 

Steve: Having a laugh. I never went to Glastonbury or anything like that, but I used to get the latitude and first time I went last year for the first time sober.

Steve: And it was because I wasn't spending half time queuing up for alcohol. It wasn't waking up feeling like shit, I was getting up six o'clock in morning making baking sandwich and yeah. So sober, sober. Sober life is not boring and there's so many good people out there. I love sober life.

Shell: Yeah, no, I mean preaching to the choir, like you said, what was boring was me. Like you mentioned, sitting at home alone in my room, doing the same thing, day in, day out, texting people I shouldn't drinking, phoning work, seeing if they need me 'cause I'm so important. And rinse and repeat and yeah, life now.

Shell: And it's quite funny, as you listing all the awesome things that they're doing at the Recovery Festival and if you're listening and you're in early recovery, yeah, you might be here. D saying forest bathing soundbars, what? That sounds shit. Yeah. It might 'cause it, it is so far away from the life that we are living.

Shell: But trust, just give it a try. Because if you are really at that point where you're thinking that what the life I am leading isn't working for me. What are you got to lose? 

Steve: Yeah. I think, yeah, you've got go in the box. 'cause I started doing, I, felt the same about yoga and meditation. I thought, that'll rubbish.

Steve: I started doing that in, I started doing that in rehab. With Lisa and it was brilliant. Then I started doing meditation and we first gong bath, I was gonna take the towel on me bloody speedos because I,

Steve: it's just so good.

Steve: Since, I've been in recovery, I've, now I've climb Ben Nevis, climb Van Snowden. Scaffolds it, scaffold pipe, it's called Done Adrian's Wolf Done 16 bridges. so there's possibilities out there, and I've never dreamed I'd ever do that . It's just that, there's, the community out there wants, to do something different and Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. And ERF, I've always put down like the recovery services, the detox and Sharp, and ERF, they're my lifesavers. there is other great, there is other things out there and if it works for you, that's brilliant. ERF 

Shell: yeah, 

Shell: there are, but we're here to talk about that, which we have, and I will put all of the links to the organization and everything in all of the show notes for all of these episodes as well.

Shell: But Steve, look, thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing your story so openly. I know that lots of people listening will resonate with that, and, I look forward to seeing you, in real life, 

Steve: thank you very much. Thanks, job. 

Shell: Thank you .