We Recover Loudly – Personal Recovery and Mental Health Stories

S3 Episode 011 *Special Edition* Ruth Tansey: Recovering Loudly … Homelessness, Healing & Finding Purpose

• Shell Righini • Season 3 • Episode 11

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In this special episode, Shell is joined by Ruth Tansey, team member at the Essex Recovery Foundation, one of the services she credits with her amazing recovery.

Ruth shares her extraordinary journey from a childhood marked by identity struggles and domestic violence, to years lost in addiction, abusive relationships, and life on the streets of London. Now over three years sober, she reflects on how recovery has not only transformed her own life, but given her the opportunity to support others on their path to healing.

Together, they explore:

  • The human realities of homelessness and addiction
  • How trauma shapes our coping mechanisms and how to break the cycle
  • Why community is essential for lasting recovery
  • What life in early sobriety is really like
  • How purpose and connection replace chaos and isolation

Whether you’re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about what a vibrant recovery community looks like in action, this episode is proof that transformation is possible.

https://www.essexrecoveryfoundation.org/

For more information on We Recover Loudly and to reach out for speaking engagements or support email hello@werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly
www.werecoverloudly.com


Shell: Hello and welcome to this special edition of We Recover Loudly in Collaboration with the Essex Recovery Foundation and Festival. So today I'm joined by Ruth Tanzi, who works within the Bones of Essex Recovery Foundation doing.

Shell: Basically everything. She's the, she runs it all. Um, and she has come along to discuss, um, her experience of working with the foundation, but also her experience with her own recovery. Um, and why, again, it's just so important that, um, we shout about, um, not only these stories, these experiences, but the support that's out there within the community, such as the Essex Recovery Foundation.

Shell: Ruth, welcome. Hi, how are you 

Ruth: today? Your face? 

Shell: Yes, absolutely. No, it's um, it's crazy that we've tried to do this over the summer period when everybody is exceptionally busy. What an idiot. Yeah, 

Ruth: we festival of course. So, but it's exciting stuff, so 

Shell: I know we were just like, how can we add more pressure to this festival event?

Shell: Let's add a podcast element. Yeah. So, so I mean. I love it when we ask people kind of what do they do within a foundation? And they say, well, I'm kind of more in an administrative role. And it's like, those roles are so vital. I mean, you really have a hand in everything, don't you? I'm sure that place just doesn't realize how it runs on you.

Shell: How long have you been working there? 

Ruth: I wouldn't say that. I mean, um, team effort actually. Team effort. Definitely an amazing team effort. I mean, I've worked with, I've actually worked as an employed. Member of staff for, for just over three months. But I have actually had my, um, I've actually been involved with ERF for, gosh, it must be about three years now.

Ruth: When they were first, um, I was at the very first meeting when we were even deciding what to call a six recovery foundation. That's amazing. Um, and, you know, when we wanted the, um. The views of, uh, people with lived experience and we did a needs assessment and asked that, went around different services and asked them what, you know, what they saw from a service, what they wanted from a service, um, in the recovery community.

Ruth: So, and that was going back. I wanna say three years ago. But, um, yeah, and then I kind of, I've always had something to do with them in some way or another. They do some fantastic things and shopping events and I always, um, have got to them when I can. And, uh, so I've never really left them to be fair, so I was kind of, yeah, destined to probably work for them at some point.

Ruth: Oh. Here 

Shell: I'm, I love that. I think that's, I mean, you've just touched on one of the, one of my favorite things about recovery, regardless of whether you do a 12 step program, smart recovery, recover within the community. I mean, there are countless ways that you can do it, but the thing that you shut the door on, I either drugs the alcohol.

Shell: You then open the door onto community and whatever that recovery community is, it just, if you lean into it, that becomes your new, your new addiction potentially, but your new comfort, doesn't it? And I love the fact that you're like, yeah, I started and then I'm still with them. 

Ruth: I think it's, I mean, community is, is is the key word there.

Ruth: Um, you know, I think, um. The community that we have, um, in the area in Essex actually is, we're very fortunate. We have a number of services, there's a lot of support. Um, and ERF have just sort of gone full steam ahead and looking at what, what, um, what is needed for the recovery community. And, and you know, they.

Ruth: I've tapped in to what helps maintain, um, people's recovery. And that's where community comes in, of course, because, you know, for me personally, I, I realized it took many years, but it realized that I couldn't do it, couldn't recover on or stay recovered on my own. Um, I needed, um, a community and the, the support of services.

Ruth: Um, to get me to, to get me sort of where I'm today. And I still, and, and, and, and I still sort of, I say need it. It's not that I need it, it's um, it's just become a part of my everyday life. Mm. You know, it's not, you know, I don't, you know, you said that, you mentioned the 12 step programs. They're all great support.

Ruth: Um, I still go into the rooms even now after a few years, um, a few years in, and it's, it's just a new way of life and that's what recovery is about. It's a new way of life and, uh, I, and I enjoy the stuff I do. It helps with my recovery, but I don't do them all just to make sure that I don't pick up again.

Ruth: But it's necessary for me to be involved in, in, you know, as well as things outside of, of recovery, you know. Um, so I, I've, I, for me, I have a healthy balance. I'm very fortunate to be involved, to actually in all the services that actually have supported and helped me, um, the past five years. Very fortunate.

Ruth: Um, oh, that 

Shell: must just feel so good though. It's like we, you know, we say in the rooms you, we give, we give away what was given to us so freely and Yeah. I can remember, I, when I finally came into recovery and I, I did an online meeting 'cause it was. 2021. So we were still very much, um, uh, COVID restrictions and like staying at my parents.

Shell: And I can remember coming downstairs 'cause I'd done it in my bedroom, you know, and, but you know, the gig was up, everyone knew what was happening. My parents were like, well how was it? And I was like, yeah, it was fine. But I'm not gonna be one of those recovery people who like, just talk about AA and go to meetings all the time.

Shell: You know, fast forward a month and like you say, it's, it becomes your. New way of life, which maybe feels quite overwhelming to somebody who's quite new in recovery. I can certainly remember thinking, oh God, look at them all jolly and happy and, you know, screw them. Um, but I mean, what, what, I mean, I, I feel I know what you might say, but what is the contrast from life before recovery compared to now?

Shell: I mean. You, did you grow up in Essex? Was that, have you always been from that area? No, 

Ruth: no, no. I, I grew up, um, in, in a little village, um, in, called in Buckinghamshire, um, a little tiny village chaplain St. Peter. Um, and it was, it was different. It was, I mean, I, I came from a very. So get complex family. Like my mum, my, I'm nearly 50, so 50 years ago in a little village that's predominantly, and, and no disrespect intended, predominantly in fact was all mm-hmm.

Ruth: White people apart from myself who was, um, mixed race. And then my mum was married to a gypsy, so it's very controversial. So I, I sort of grew up. I was the only, um, say, colored person. Mm. Um, and some people just saw me as black anyway. Um, so I, I and I, I had this stepdad that was, um, a, a gypsy. So I, I kind of stood out regardless for a lot, for a lot of different reasons.

Ruth: Um, and it, it was, it was uncomfortable. It was, it, it was uncomfortable. I did, uh, I became very good at sport and I think that's what saved me from a lot at school because I became very good at sport and, um. I was recognized for like, my success as an athlete, very young, from like eight years old. Um, so I didn't actually experience that much, uh, that much racism from my, my peers and, and and stuff.

Ruth: And I, I think they thought that there was just really interesting, my family dynamic. In fact, my, the racism actually came from my steps, dad's side of the family. Um, um, yeah, at a very young age. So, but, but yeah, I actually, I can kind of look back and sort of say my school years actually weren't that, that bad at home life was a little bit different.

Ruth: Um, there was domestic violence and, you know, violence against me and, um, at very young age. Um, and, and, and that came from, from my, my stepfather and, and some of the people from his family and then my mom with trust. Try and stick up for me. And then she would, you know, get, um, get battered. And then my brother came along and, you know, he was obviously the apple of, of my stepdad's eye.

Ruth: Um, my stepdad was an alcoholic. Um, it was, it, it was, he just got on with it really, you know. I mean, I, I reconciled with my stepdad before he died of alcoholism. Wow. Um. And he, he would, he if he, if, if you ever spoke to him, he never did any of those things. Mm. And actually, you know, I've had to sort of get over it really, to be fair.

Ruth: But I've, I've done a lot of work on myself as you do. And you go Yes, you do. Yeah. And, um, yeah, it's book. You know, it did. I never really thought when I, when I started drinking and, and, and doing drugs and stuff, I, I never attributed it to any of anything that went on in my childhood until I became got into long-term recovery.

Ruth: Until now. 

Shell: I mean, you've touched on something that is so key, I think to a lot of people who come into the recovery and then go, ah, okay. You know, that uncomfortableness with identity. I have, um, cousins who, you know, are mixed race from, and they're about the same age as you. So I kind of remember that they didn't feel like they fit into one camp or the other camp.

Shell: And again, growing up in Surrey, um. It was really difficult for them to know who they were. And we talked about community a little bit, and I think not having community or identifiers, uh, is huge as children. You know, I came to this country when I was very young. I'm obviously white, but I'm from South Africa, and again, in the early eighties, I think having a little white girl with a funny voice.

Shell: And I can remember at school being kind of like, well, why aren't you black? And things, and. And it is just anything that just kind of pulls you away from the norm. I think when you are That's right. Already quite a sensitive person, which a lot of us are, and we've already got that, that we already struggle to connect to people.

Shell: It's all these markers that just make us prime for, and the word you used there was uncomfortable to look for things to make us not feel uncomfortable. And you had sport for a while. 

Ruth: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think sport was my saving grace for a long time. It was an escape as well. Absolutely. Um, and, and I kind of, but, but, but with that came the feel, the feeling uncomfortable came with then trying to fit in.

Shell: Mm. 

Ruth: And people please. And kind of that carried me right the way through, through my life. Um. You know, allowing certain behaviors because you just wanted to be liked and actually you were doing the opposite. You were just setting yourself up to be treated like that when in, you know, being the be better person, forgiving all the time, it's just, um, kind of allowing people.

Ruth: Treat you badly, really, and, and accepting it, but, you know, masking it as, oh, I'm being the better person. Mm-hmm. You know, don't make afus. And they'll, you know, you don't, not wanting anyone to be upset or sort of, you know, pissed off. Oh, oops. Angry with you. Sorry. Mm, no, no. Swear 

Shell: away. 

Ruth: So, yeah, and it's, and, and that just followed me into relationships.

Ruth: Uh, with friends. I mean, I do not talk to not one person that I went to school with. Wow. Um, because they all treated me like, like, yeah. Like, but I, but I allowed it. It's not even like I, you know, I, I was a bit of a SAP really. Um, 

Shell: I 

Ruth: think that, you 

Shell: know, like that's, again, that really speaks to self-confidence, self-worth, and again, you know, in, in reality you came from a really, really.

Shell: I think that's the word. Um, you know, family environment again, which I know a lot of listeners will relate to, and, you know, um, when that is like your. Identity from such a young age. I think that you go one, maybe one of two ways. You either become the aggressor and you mirror that behavior, or you become, like you say, the people pleaser, the foreigner, the person that's always just trying to know everybody be okay because you know, otherwise.

Shell: Yeah. And, and it, it, it makes so much sense that you would fall into that type of behavior, which. Others will clearly take advantage of because, you know, why wouldn't they? In a way, you know, when you are offering yourself up on a plate, there's again, you kind of get into recovery and you think you, you, we look, we always look at our part and even when we're in situations where we are coerced and you know, abused and things, there is that level of, well, we did allow it purely because we didn't think we were worth anything more.

Shell: And again, it kills our spirit and our soul. Which is where the drugs and the alcohol, and I Absolutely. 

Ruth: And when 

Shell: people think like, oh, bad alcoholic, bad addict, you know, just have some self-control. There's no understanding that, there's no, there's a reason behind it. I mean, when did you start, um, finding alcohol and drugs to be that comfort blanket for you?

Ruth: Um, I didn't, you know, I, I, I, I can't pinpoint really. I just, I just remember. Probably when my mom divorced my stepdad and then she moved to London. Um, and I was sort of had this flat on my own at 16. And so then I kind of became a bit popular, like, you know, the party house amongst my peers. And then, you know, it was the days of raving and jungle and, you know, um.

Ruth: And so, and then I just think I, I got into a domestic violence relationship from like 15 till 18, 19, and that didn't help. 

Shell: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth: Um, you know, I was able to do pretty much what I wanted. It wasn't, it wasn't like, it wasn't, it was to steady, steady, um, sort of, sort of form really, or. When I moved to London, I got out of this violent relationship.

Ruth: And when I moved to London to be with my mom, that is when it, it, it, I think I would say then like early twenties, um, I got into a relationship. The guy was, I had a really great job 'cause I've always been quite academic. Um, I got into a bad relationship quite quickly again. Um, who was, um, a. Crack addict.

Ruth: Mm. And I, I was drinking to cope with that. I just started drinking more. He was, he was, he turned into someone I didn't recognize. Yeah. But you know, when you're that young, early twenties, like, I love 

Shell: him and I love him. You know? 

Ruth: Well 

Shell: it's 'cause you've seen it as well and you've seen that modeled and again, it's that savior Yes.

Shell: Complex that people like I very much relate to. I'm sure listeners do as well. It's like. I'll save this person, I'll be the one that rescues them. And again, yeah. You know, crack is just such a horrendous drug. I mean, no drugs are awesome, but it's such a, it completely just, it's trips people, their behavior is not even, you can't even say it.

Shell: It's not them, you know, they're gone. Exactly. 

Ruth: That. It's, it's, yeah, it's. It's unimaginably like until you've been through it to see how quickly it can change someone. Someone. So, and, and then he, you know, he would be, I, I've lost that. That relationship was. There, there was violence. Um, he'd come into my work screaming and shouting.

Ruth: He'd think I was cheating. He'd try to, to my bosses, this was various jobs, like, because I'd, I'd come in with battered black eyes and stuff, and, and, and eventually they, they'd have to say like, Ruth, your front of house, you can't, you can't look like that. And I'll be so embarrassed, I'll just never go back again.

Ruth: And um, and, and, um, and then eventually. And I think I, I didn't realize it was happening. Eventually it didn't work, so I was totally reliant on him. And, um, and then I started, I was drinking anyway, and then I just started taking hard drugs then and, and literally the life that I had for on and off for years and years, kind of think the same.

Ruth: It was a different, I, I. I'd get out of, out of a relationship, I'd work, uh, get a job, work, be fine, not drinking, you know, be all, and then bang, you know, something, something would, would happen. And, um, I I, I tried to get help sort of halfheartedly at first and then, um, I've always been a believer. So I, I, I used to go to church, church anyway, and then, um, when I was not.

Ruth: You know, uh, in, in the madness. And, um, my, my mom actually sort of spoke to the pastor at one of my churches, so I ended up, um, going to a, a, um, a spiritual type, refuge place. It's called Patel of Britain. And I was there for nearly a year and. But it gave me my relationship with God, and I'll be forever grateful for that.

Ruth: I really, you know, tapped into that, but I didn't do any work on what was going on in my heart and in my head. So inevitably when I left it, I just literally, I, I left and I, I got married weirdly enough, very quickly. I met someone, got married. I got, got pregnant, moved to Hull with them, um, and it was, it was really messed up pen.

Ruth: Now look at I basic. So I left Patel in the January, moved to Hull from Buckingham to be with him in the, um, in the March and oh February. Um, I started my job in April. Um. Started my job in April. He proposed in September. Oh, got pregnant in June. We got married in the, no, in the November. My daughter was born in the January and we were separated in the April.

Ruth: So I did all of that. 

Shell: God. 

Ruth: So this is what I do. I thought when someone used to say, oh, I love you. I thought I was getting, I was late thirties then as well. I thought he was given from God, just come out of this spiritual sort of ref, you know, refuge, um, place and uh, re I suppose it's like a rehab, I dunno what you would cocktail.

Ruth: So I thought this guy was God given and I didn't know anything about him and it re it turned badly really quickly, like the violence started when I got pregnant. Um, and I, you know, I just, I was miles away from my family. Um, and it turned, you know, I was sober though. I was sober, and, um, it, it, it, Eddie was born and it wasn't until, I wanna say.

Ruth: After I'd left him separated, but was still secretly seeing hi, seeing him, um, that's when I started drinking again. And yeah, it, it all went really quickly down, downhill from there. A lot happened. I ended up on the, the streets of London in my last relapse for four years. Went missing. My daughter wasn't with me.

Ruth: She was safe and well, but um, but I went. I was on, yeah, the streets of London as a single woman. Um, and tried to destroy myself pretty much for four years. Um, it was COVID actually, weirdly enough helped me 'cause it got so bad on the streets of London for me. Um, in, you know, the violence, sex, sexual violence, physical violence, um, partner violence, um, you know, I was nearly thrown off.

Ruth: Multi-story car park. Um, obviously I was a drug take and a drink, uh, a drinker. So, um, when you are, when you are dealing with that anyway, especially with desperate people, people that are, are on the streets, it's, it's very dangerous environment. And when COVID hit and shock shut, people can't steal to get the money and blah, blah, blah.

Ruth: Um, it got very. Very, um, dangerous. Very, there was a lot happening. A lot happened to me in a very short space of time. And, and, um, I, I, I ended up in hospital for, um, first for ulcers. I didn't know I had, so I ended up in hospital in 2020, mid COVID. Um, my. Family had put out this missing persons post all over London.

Ruth: My, my brother and sister had come up to London, had heard I was in, in that area and were sort of going into shops. Um, so I got, I heard about that. I got in contact with my family. I was still using and drinking. Um, but then a lot, a lot happened. I had a store, he would come and, um. I had a stalker, he would appear on the street and hit me with a bit of wood.

Ruth: And, um, it, you know, this, this was a guy that wanted sexual favors for staying at his house. And, and I, and a lot happened. Yeah, a lot happened. And so my, I did have some street, uh, uh, as in, they're called, say street workers. They, they're, they're, um, they were called fulfilling lives. They helped. Like little angels, like street angels?

Ruth: Yeah. Like those, like street angels and, um, because all the services were shut and, um, and, and, and they saw this happen to me. I was just coming back from a food bank with them and this guy sort of came out and attacked me and I think that's why I, they knew about, I was telling them, but I think when they actually saw it, um, I think they were like, no.

Ruth: So they, so I was really. I think, yeah, angels and I think God was looking at me and realized that I'd had enough. He, so I ended up in a meeting with my, A Key with someone from CGL in London, someone from his. Who were run by Women's Aid Refuge in London in this meeting and these, these street angels and, and they were just like, you know, you, you, you, you're going to die.

Ruth: Things are happening. You know, you are, you are wasting away for a start. You've ended up in hospital, your family. I'd seen my family by this time. Um, actually they'd come up to see me, my brothers and sisters had, and then eventually my mom. So I'd see once in four years, I just disappeared. I just thought I deserved to be, as I said, a lot happened leading up to, but yeah.

Ruth: And, um, I ended up, um, on New Year's Eve 2020 at next chapter in Colchester, which is a wonderful, wonderful rev uh, refuge who I'm now a trustee for. 

Shell: Oh, I love that. 

Ruth: Um, no, and, and I have not looked back since. Gosh, I literally stopped taking, stopped drinking and taking drugs New Year's Eve. And I, I was very ill for a little while.

Ruth: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what, it, it's, it's all been worth it. It's literally all been worth it. And I, I, the services I'm involved with now, ERF, you know, they, um, sharp Whitford, um, I've got them to thank really for putting me on the, the road to where I am now. And who are amazing and they do great things for the recovery community.

Ruth: Um, obviously plug the festival, we've got a festival coming up. I was gonna 

Shell: say, before we finish and just before we talk about the festival, I just have to say thank you so much for sharing that because my goodness, what a story and, and I think you've just really, really shone a light onto the fact that, and, and we are all guilty of it, even in recovery.

Shell: I'm still guilty of it because that's just how we are. You walk someone past somebody in the street and you look at them and you don't see, oh, I'm getting chills. You don't see the story behind. No. Why they're there. And yeah, I think addiction is so dehumanizing. Um. Which is really actually quite ironic in a way, because the people that normally are in addiction are the ones that don't feel human themselves anyway.

Shell: And we just add to that by our behaviors. And you know, I just, I, I strongly urge anyone, and like I say, I'm not innocent. I'll walk past people and my initial reactions sometimes might still be, it'd be like, oh, you know, 'cause that's how, mm-hmm. We are. But there is a story behind nobody chooses to be an addict.

Shell: Nobody chooses to be on the street. They have all got families. They have all come from somewhere. And if you can take it out of your day to just even, sometimes it's as simple as looking somebody in the eye and smiling. You know, it doesn't have to be more than that. And just let them know that you see that they are a human being.

Shell: You see them. You see them. It's 

Ruth: the biggest thing because. You know, the addiction is so stereotyped and for me, when I was on the streets of London, like I get spat on. Yeah. I've been, you know, and, and, and you just, um, you, you said it there. Everybody has a store. There's no one chooses that way of life. Why would you?

Ruth: It's, it's insane. Like, you know, and, um. But I think that's why I'm so blessed to be part of many services that, that just try and make it, that that's exactly When I got sober, I said, I want to make a difference. I didn't know how, then, I didn't know where I would end up and I prayed on it. And, um, I just wanna, I just want people to know that, you know, I know it sounds so clear to cliche, but if I can do it, anyone can.

Ruth: But literally it, it's possible. It is recovery. Maintaining recovery is possible and it's beautiful. It's, oh God, yeah. You know, I thought recovery was gonna be boring. Gosh, 

Shell: I know. I've not got time to be bored. Right. Hundred percent. Literally, we were just saying before we were recording, we were like, we've gotta do this, and then we're doing that, and then we're doing the, it's like I literally don't have time to blow my life up anymore, which is a.

Shell: Bloody privilege, isn't it? But, uh, it's talking about fun things. Before the, uh, before we finish up here, tell us a bit about the festival. It's the second year, third year? 

Ruth: Second year. Second year. Yeah. It's the second year, um, of our festival. Um, it's, um, it's coming up. It's, it's on a lot of the socials.

Ruth: It's the eighth. 10th to the 10th. Mm-hmm. Um, we have an amazing lineup, amazing DJs. It's, we've tweaked it from last year. Um, so we, we looked at last year, what worked, what didn't, and it's gonna, it's, it is gonna be out of this world, I think. I think all the tenths, big tenths have been sold out now, but there's tickets still available.

Ruth: We have so much wellbeing. We've got Gong bars, meditation, we've got creatives. Stuff going on. We've got a silent disco, we've got drums. Literally anything you can think of, I guarantee you we are putting on. Um, so please, like, I think people will regret if they don't come and sign up. It's gonna be.

Ruth: Amazing. It's gonna be the talk of the panel. It will. And yeah, we've got people coming from all over. 

Shell: And again, it is community. It is, it's just like the vibe about it. And everyone who went last year are already starting to see on their socials like, are you coming this year? Are you coming? It's like, yeah.

Shell: You know, everybody's so vibed and excited if they went before and. I think, like you say, it's, it's so funny if you'd said to either of us, I'm sure in addiction, you'd be excited about a festival that's got a gong bath. We'd be like, why is there drugs in it? But I mean, once you've experienced all these things, yeah.

Shell: Right. Yeah. Yeah. What, what does this yoga you speak of and Exactly. And it's gonna cost me about it. Oh yeah, exactly. To go 

Ruth: on something. 

Shell: Yeah. But I think it's really important to people as well to know that even if you're in quite early recovery, it's got, there's support there. And again, all of the places that you've mentioned are quiet 

Ruth: spaces.

Ruth: It's not, you know, there's places where you can just chill and chat, you know? Um, it's got a little bit for everybody and, and, and, and it's community that, that guaranteed you'll go there, there'll be someone there that feels exactly like you mm-hmm. Has been where you've been, wherever you are at. And, um, it could, you know, it's, it's, I think you'd be very.

Ruth: You'd miss it if you didn't go. You've gotta go get down there. Have fun. Fill your cup up. That's it. And look out for Ruth's man 

Shell: and give her a massive hug because God, honestly, what you share today I think is, I'd love to see is you, you have no idea how many people it will help. And you know, yes, it might be a cliche if I can do it, anyone can do it.

Shell: But sadly, a lot of people don't do it. And, and it's important that we show people with backgrounds and stories like you that, that, that it is. Possible doesn't mean it's easy. Yeah. I mean, if it was easy, we'd have done it 20, 40, 30 years ago. It is not easy, but it is a damn site easier if you're not doing it alone, which is what you did.

Shell: Yeah, and I'll put all the links to all the places that helped you in, in the show notes as well. Oh yeah, please 

Ruth: do. 

Shell: And, um, if you do 

Ruth: see me, ask me anything, um, I'm, I'm a talker. 

Shell: No, I love it. You need your own podcast. Very, thank you. We're doing, yeah, a whole like Essex Recovery Foundation podcast. I'll talk to Carly.

Shell: Um, thank you so much

Ruth: and um, yeah, I hope to see you, you'll touch base in the future. You're doing a great thing too, by the way, Michelle. It's great. Thank you so much. I love that you do that and, and you're so easy to talk to. So. There you go. 

Shell: Match made. Thank you so much for your time.