We Recover Loudly – Personal Recovery and Mental Health Stories

S3 Episode 013 Caroline Kelf (DJ Flourish): Recovering Loudly … Boundaries, Disco Balls & Finding Your Shine

• Shell Righini • Season 3 • Episode 13

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In this vibrant and vulnerable episode of We Recover Loudly, Shell is joined by Caroline Kelp — aka DJ Flourish: writer, speaker, and creator of the legendary Self-Love Rave. Known for helping women navigate midlife with more joy, connection, and empowerment, Caroline brings her trademark honesty and disco-ball energy to the mic. 

Together, they explore: 

  • Growing up with pain and rejection, and how those early experiences shape identity
  • The masks we wear — from teenage rebellion to corporate panels — and the courage it takes to drop them
  • Social media, addiction, and why “discomfort” can either be a doorway to growth or a drain on our nervous systems
  • The power of community, authenticity, and self-love practices in recovery
  • How DJing in her forties led Caroline to discover joy, purpose, and a whole new way to connect

Caroline’s story is a reminder that recovery isn’t just about letting go; it’s about creating space for joy, courage, and connection.
 
Whether you’re in recovery, questioning your relationship with alcohol, or simply craving more authenticity in your life, this episode is a celebration of self-love, rebellion, and showing up as your fullest self.
 

CONNECT WITH CAROLINE

https://djflourish.co.uk/

@ ravewithdjflourish 

For more information on We Recover Loudly and to reach out for speaking engagements or support email hello@werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly
www.werecoverloudly.com


Shell: Hello and welcome to this new episode of We Recover Loudly. Today I am joined by DJ Flourish, otherwise known as Caroline Kelp, as well as being a renowned dj.

Caroline is a writer and public speaker who helps women navigate midlife to feel more joyful, connected, and empowered. She is the creator of the legendary self-love rave, where she uses her own journey into self-love as a way to inspire others. And um, I love this part of the bio that I got sent about you as well, Caroline, that said she is on a mission to help women who are also struggling to feel less alone.

Fuck yeah. Caroline, thank you for being here. How are you today? 

Caroline: I'm alright today. Oh, you know, I'm a little bit vulnerable, a little bit nervous ' but I'm also really excited to just talk about real stuff because that's where I feel the most aligned and connected.

So yeah, I'm really happy to be here with you. 

Shell: Oh, thank you. And no, I really appreciate you coming on and, you know, it's, um, I think there's such, I mean, it's just such a great example of the type of work you do that even when feeling vulnerable, you know, you use that to help and support others and share that story because that's what it's all about, isn't it?

It's about unlocking somebody else's darkness. And like you said in your bios, people, women especially, who are struggling to make them feel less alone. Um, which is just incredible. 

Caroline: Yeah. I just, I think I'm just, you know, I talk about like what are all our gifts and being disco balls and stuff, and part of that are your, are your natural gifts and talents.

And I think that I'm just really able to be very open and honest and I think that like, people are like, whoa, like I can really relate to a lot of things that she's saying. Um, but it's not, it's not something that I've intentionally gone out there to do. It just, it just happened and I thought that people were, you know, enjoying it.

And, um, and also I, I can't be anything but honest. It's really, really hard for me to not be honest and not be authentic. And so, um, and I think that that's a gift and it helps other people to get to know themselves more and, you know, see things within themselves that they might not have recognized because I'm so self-aware and so honest.

Shell: Mm. A hundred percent. I mean, were you always like this? Were you a cheeky, cheeky child? Were you honest And getting yourselves in trouble from a we age? I dunno why I've just put my hand to show a height a we age. 

Caroline: Um, what was I like? I was, I was cheeky. Yeah. And a lot of fun. Definitely a lot of fun. Um, I wouldn't say I was an ultra deep, honest and authentic.

Child because, you know, at that point in my life I was just interested in, you know, my mates and um, and that kind of stuff. I, I, I definitely had a lot of, um, pain to, to overcome and to live with as a child. And I think that that's had a, a huge impact on, on how I am today and why I am the way that I am.

Um, but I also believe that, like, you know, someone asked me the other day in a, I did a panel talk and they said to me, um, what would you say to your younger self? And I think people expect me to say, you know, oh, you are enough and you're good enough. And actually what I would've said is, all this pain is for a reason.

So trust that. 

Shell: Gosh. I mean, that's so powerful. I mean, there's a trend going around, um, on Instagram. You know, I, I met my younger self for coffee. I dunno whether or not you've seen or done one of those, I mean. How would your younger self show up if you were to meet them for coffee? 

Caroline: I think she would, she'd be, oh, it depends what age you're talking about.

Right? Oh, good point. If we're talking like pre 11, 12, I think we'd have, um, she'd be really quite gentle, really quite, um, um, yeah, calm, but also really a lot of fun. Then if we get to teenage years, we are talking, you know, really rebellious, really wild, uh, really defensive, very, um, uh, very wanting to get shocks and, and, um, get people to react, you know?

Which is kind of understandable because she's just protecting the younger one, isn't she? 

Shell: Mm-hmm. Definitely, I mean, teenagers, gosh, that's a tale as old as time, isn't it? Teenagers? It doesn't seem to kind of change no matter how much time passes. I mean, for me being a teenager, I can just about remember still.

Um, I can remember like you say, being quite bolshy and it was about putting on the show of confidence, whereas actually inside I felt absolutely just worthless and, you know, shattered and. You know, growing up in late nineties, early noughties where it was very much about, um, the heroin chic, look, you know, Kate Moss, nothing's as good as skinny feels.

Can you remember that one? Yeah. Oh, dear. Um, I mean, did you have any kind of awareness of that growing up and what it was like? 'cause we're very similar ages, aren't we? I'm 47. I'm finally someone. I'm younger than, but we are, we're similar ages. Only just we'd have been at the same high school. 

Caroline: Yeah. Well, I remember going round to my mate's house after school watching MTV, like mm-hmm.

For hours. And that was definitely, um, and she had an older sister who was really good looking and everything, and I wasn't, I was quite overweight, uh, when I was a, a teenager and I really struggled. I started, you know, binge eating from a very, quite a young age. And so, um. And they, and my friend was really skinny and her sister was really skinny.

And so there was definitely, and so I put on the, like the fun, you know? Mm-hmm. Silly kind of, although that is part of my personality too, but it was the mask that kind of came out. Yeah. Um, and also I, I went to an all girls school that was a grammar school and it was, you know, I, it was the, I think, I dunno if they still do the 11 plus now.

I think in some places they do. But it was, it was an exam that you did to get in and I just scraped in. And to be honest with you, I don't think it was the best environment for me, especially with what was going on at home. It was the kind of school that I really needed a lot of support in, and I just was like massively overwhelmed.

It was very academic and, um, I, I kind of just. Like rebelled my way through it. Um, and yeah, so as well as having, you know, the whole MTV best friends that are all skinny, there was also, you are the thick one as well and you've been rejected and abandoned at home. So there was a lot for me to be navigating.

Shell: Yeah. Gosh, that is, that's so much for, you know, a grownup to navigate, nevermind a teenager. And yeah, I really relate to that and really relate to that. And it's interesting you bring up intelligence. Um, and I think that women, yeah, I think I'm right in saying this, women in particular, I don't like to always make it like a gendered thing, but I personally believed I was stupid because I am neurodivergent.

I've been diagnosed with a DHD and, um, autistic as well. Um, so there's a bit of understanding was to why I. Was kind of struggled at school, but when I went into, um, hospitality, that industry was a very male dominated industry. Um, much like the entertainment industry, I imagine for you. Um, I felt like I needed to dumb myself down to excel or to progress, and it's only now that I'm a little bit older, a little bit that I've started to kind of recognize my intelligence and own it.

Mm-hmm. And because you are not stupid clearly, but I was wondering whether or not you've had any kind of turnaround and, you know, not only acceptance of our intelligence, but Yeah. I'm clever and I'm gonna show off about it, 

Caroline: you 

Shell: know? Yeah. 

Caroline: I think it's, it, it, I mean it still pops up for me. You know, last week I did a talk at a corporate event about creating an authentic brand and I was on a panel with, um, three other founders, well, two founders of really.

Big businesses. Um, and one of them was also a director for a very big corporate business. And before I went in, I immediately put the mask up of, right, I've got to change who I am, I have to say different things. I've got to, you know, um, know the lingo, the language, all that kind of stuff. Um, and even I start, when I started my talk, I did a talk first.

I started my talk. I even said that at the beginning. I was like, listen, you know, when I got invited to do this talk straight away, my mask came up. And it's still up a little bit now, but I'm just gonna try and talk through it and just be, be myself and tell my story as it is and not try to pretend to be anything.

Um, and so, yeah, so I, I find it in, in anybody who has like qualifications or has it, it is a woman who's. Who's doing really quite well in the corporate world is where it comes up for me more. Um. My, I've, my brothers have both done really well, but they're my half brothers, um, and they're much younger than me.

Um, but you know, I was the one that kind of, you know, didn't really go to uni, didn't do all of the things that everyone else in my family did. And everyone else in my family has got very good jobs and have excelled in them. But the other, you know, I've done quite a bit of work on myself around this and, you know, again, this whole analogy of the disco ball and everything, which is what I talk about a lot, which is, you know, we're all different.

We're all unique and our disco balls are all different. And that's like our gifts, our talents, the way we communicate, all that kind of stuff. And I think that what I've done over the last 10 years is to really understand myself and to. Um, it, and to really tap into my gifts and to create things and deliver my way in a, a, a way that is where I am really totally authentic and totally me.

And sometimes I'll go away and I will, if I'm feeling like not good enough, I'll, you know, I've got a little process where I kind of, you know, I will reassure myself of, you know, everything that I am good enough for. And I, and I don't, I don't want to be like those other people. In corporate. I don't want to be a corporate person.

I don't want to have had a university degree and, and have, you know, 10 different things behind my name. What I want to do is to be able to be fun and playful and bring sunshine to the world, which is exactly what I do. I want to, I want to have deep connections with people, um, which I, I do. And I, I really, really want to make an impact in the world and lead, um, lead a movement that makes a fucking difference.

And when I really own that, it's like, um, yeah, but I have to fucking remind myself of it a lot. Mm-hmm. I really do. And when, when you're doing like, the stuff that I'm doing, which is just turning up as myself, spreading a, a message, um. It, it's hard to sometimes get the validation that what I'm doing is actually having an impact because I, I don't know.

Yes, I sometimes get feedback from my raves and stuff, but I think people, people don't respond now to emails and messages and everything because they're so busy and there's so much information. But

they will be taking, um, inspiration from what I'm saying. Um, but it's hard for me because it's not like I have a job where you are like, right, this is the project and we're working together as a team, and we get to the end result and yay, we can all celebrate ourselves. I'm literally just putting myself out there every week in a hope that it inspires people without really knowing.

If it is. And that's hard for me too. 

Shell: Yeah, it is. And it's, um, it's difficult. I think it's, it's almost while you were sharing, and thank you for sharing that because again, you know, it's that it's that brutal self-honesty, um, which people I think gravitate to. So, um, so viscerally and when you were talking, I was thinking a bit about like a comedian and how people expect comedians to always be funny, you know, and you see a comedian off stage and they're like, no, you know, that is part of what I'm putting out there.

And I think sometimes we are guilty, especially when we're building something like you are building, you know, like myself, you know, this persona as it were, um, guilty of almost building, I think, I think the phrase is building a rod for your own back, something like that. Um, and then it's trying to keep that up and, you know, we'll be talking a little bit about social media before we started recording and um, it's something that I find.

I enjoy social media. I like a good scroll. I love a scroll. Me, um, I've curated my own. So, um, Instagram feed that I'm following, really nourishing accounts that I enjoy. But doing my own social media, I do find challenging and it's something that I get so much creeping self-doubt about. And it's, you know, it's one of those things that like, I start to feel like you say, quite inauthentic with it.

And I'll find myself doing things like saying, we, we, we, we are gonna launch this product and we are packing this up and we've had a great day. And it's like, who's, who's we? It's just me. But I almost feel like I can't. Say me because I'm not enough on my own. And I know you've come off social media and I found it really interesting what you were saying about that.

So please do share, 

Caroline: please share. Well, I've had a very on and off relationship with social media. Uh, it, it's kind of like with everything with me, I'm quite all or nothing. Um, and it's, you know, I have very strong addictive tendencies, uh, that I have to manage. You know, I've done all the healing work in the world and I've, you know, repaired my relationships.

But I swear, if you were to, uh, scan my brain, you know, you can scan your brain to see how addicted people are. I think that, I think there's brain scans that show addiction in the brain now. Wow. Well, mine would just, oh yeah, mine would just be like a major addict. Mine would just be full of shortbread, I think.

Well, my, I've been addicted to everything, so I can get very. Sucked into things that are addictive very, very quickly. And, um, what I, what I've loved about social media is that I'm actually, I really love doing videos, and it can, and it means that I can express a part of my, per my disco ball, my personality.

That is a show off that is fun, that is silly. Um, and that's very DJ flourish, you know, so if I'm jumping up and down behind the decks, if I'm doing just musings, if I'm on a day out and it's, we're having, I'm having really silly time with the girls or the team or whatever, and, you know, and it, and it shows off a very fun, playful side of my personality.

Um, but at the same time, it comes with quite a bit of, uh, I'd say darkness, really. Um, it comes with constantly thinking about content. Like next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. And ru rumination around that. Um, it comes with comparison to other people and Oh, yeah. Comparison. Yeah. Comparison to what I'm putting out there and should I be doing it like this?

And, you know, and, um, and then also, you know, being on the phone late at night, all that kind of stuff. Um, and a a and also real, real, like a feeling of being exposed. 

Shell: Mm. 

Caroline: Like really exposed. And I've been toying with it for a while because, you know, I'm very much, I talk about this a lot on my, through my substack account with anyone who comes to my self love rave, you know, be okay to be in discomfort.

And I, I do really feel that because there's some things. That I'm a so, so things that I, I think are okay to be in discomfort with are, like, um, for example, if I get asked to do a talk or if I'm coming on this podcast and I'm getting a full body, yes, I want to do it, but I'm scared that is okay to be in discomfort.

Or if I know I have to have a vulnerable conversation with one of my friends about something that is like, oh, I'm getting triggered about this and I need to talk to you about it. And like, oh, you know, but I know that on the other side of that conversation is depth connection, understanding, and feeling more authentic.

But then there's discomfort. That's actually sends your nervous system into like a constant state of fight flight. And that is what social media was doing for me. Um, and, and it was just this constant feeling of being on and not fully safe.

Mm. Especially the videos, um, and stuff like that. And so I've done what I've done over the last two years is I've come on, then I've had breaks, then I've come on, then I've had breaks. But I knew that this year I wanted to change my relationship fully, completely with social media, but I just didn't know what it looked like yet.

Um, and then I've lost, uh, some people in my life and so I made the decision to just come off for a while anyway. And then this is like, uh, a real chance for me to change it now. Mm-hmm. Uh, moving forward. So, at the moment, I haven't fully, well, I, I haven't fully come off yet. I'm just trying some new things out.

But I have basically, I'm not doing any more videos of me. I'm not showing anyone my personal life anymore. Um, and what I'm trying to do is to just move my business, well, I call it my business. It's more a mission, my mission more into other ways to market. 

Shell: Mm-hmm. Um, 

Caroline: rather than it being Instagram or Facebook. And that's really hard for me because 50% of my ticket sales come from Instagram.

Yeah. So it is a bold, bold decision. Um, but it's a decision, you know, when you get to a point where your desire for something else is so much stronger than like putting yourself through that thing anymore. Mm-hmm. Like, that's kind of what happens to me. I get to a point where I'm like, I can't do this anymore.

Shell: Yeah. I think that, and like you just said, it is a bold, bold move. And, um, we had, um, Chloe on the podcast the other week, and we were talking about being a neurodivergent small business owner, and the pressure to, like you said, always beyond the self-doubt, the, you know, lying in bed thinking, is that the real that's gonna get me sales?

Is that the real, that's gonna lose me sales? And I mean, you know, in your opinion, can a business. You know, how do we, how do we flourish? We try so hard not to use the word flourish because it sound cheesy, but I just can't, I know it goes, you know, but how do we kind of get that footing as a business without it, you 

Caroline: know?

I know, I know. And, and so, and that, and that's where I'm at at the moment. It's like, well, am I going to be able to continue? And what does this look like? And where the hell is this all going? Because all my events are now currently on hold, but I'm also a really, for me personally, and this because I'm very impact driven and because I'm driven by being the highest version of myself, which then can then help other people, um, to be the highest version of themselves.

I just feel like I'm kind of trusting, um, that I'm gonna be shown a, a different way. That will have more of an impact in a way that's more aligned to me, that is less, um, detrimental to my, my mental and emotional health. Mm-hmm. Which means I'll be able to serve from a much, you know, strong, a much stronger space.

And I think because the brand is me, I think, you know, I have to, um, you know, be quite, uh, I have to be brave. I have to do what feels right. Otherwise, it's like, well, I'm not being, I'm not being authentic then am I, if I'm still going on. But then at night, having like meltdowns, that's just, and I'm talking about self love and living authentically.

I, you know, I've got to walk the walk and talk the talk a hundred percent. I have to, and this is a brave, a brave move for me, but I do in my gut, feel like it's the right, the right move. Yeah. 

Shell: You've gotta follow that as well. And that's the thing, it's about following that instinct and that's, you know, what's got you where you are today and um, you know, it's the same that, you know, I really relate to that in terms of we recover loudly.

Um, whereas even today, even though I've been, this podcast has been going for, it'll be two years, um, you know, in 2025. So potentially it's already been two years when this podcast has come out. Um. And yet, you know, I'm very comfortable sharing other people's stories, but you know, I do still have hold shame and, um, and the bits, yeah, shame, embarrassment, guilt around my own story.

And for me it's still, the podcast has been a very cathartic experience. There's been a lot of conversations that have helped me move towards acceptance. Um, but again, it's one of those that I push myself, like you were saying about discomfort. There's being uncomfortable because there's the potential for growth versus being uncomfortable, but there's the potential for hurt.

And for me, it's like I, me being uncomfortable with putting myself out there with this podcast, wearing socks that say sober, I've got sober earrings in my ears right now. Um, that's the kind of discomfort that I believe in because I truly believe that I, that if I'd seen somebody like me 5, 6, 7 years ago and had, could have gone Wow.

There is another way to live my life, especially within my industry that I was working with at the time. That for me, is worth the discomfort. But it's a really fine line, I believe, especially when you're the kind of person like I am, which I'm sure you might relate to, and not lovers, where self-sabotage and not actually having a lot of self-love means that sometimes I do choose things that will hurt me consciously, unconsciously.

And it's quite a balance to read. Am I doing this to myself because of, from a place of love? Or is it from that place of like in Yeah, well, kind of self-hatred, almost self-sabotage. Yeah. You know? Do you ever have that kind of thought 

Caroline: process? Yeah. 100%. You know, and it, it is definitely a fine line and the inner critic within me is, and also like the kind of the, the warrior woman, kind of like flat, like kind of energy that a lot of women.

This is something I said last week actually in on that, that panel that I was on there was someone talking about how women in, in business who have been successful, how they've got there. And they, and they, and one common theme was that they take risks and they don't know the outcome and they just go for it.

And I was like, I agree with that, but if you have a capacity of what I, I have, um, that's actually quite dangerous. And it's actually a form of beating myself up Mm. And hurting myself. Um, so, you know, and, and I don't think there's enough that's said about that in, in lots of industries. Um, you know, and self-love is really, really hard when you have, you know, when you've, when you've grown up.

With rejection and abandonment and, and your perimenopausal and you are living in a world that is constantly trying to distract you and, and also a world that you know, says that you are never enough as you are. Um, it's, it's really hard. I mean, I mean, we, I mean, and this is sometimes, you know, I say to my girlfriends and stuff, I'm like, you know, I am fucking mental.

No, I don't like to say that. Like, I am crazy in my head. My head is crazy, you know? Um, so just because people see on the outside, you know, someone who can. You know, organize and deliver like, phenomenal events and who has, you know, started DJing in her forties and created this brand and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

I've done it with a very crazy head. Um, and I, and, and I would say that a part of me getting to where I've got to and the success I had was that war warrior you will push through that woman.

Shell: Yeah. And I think that, yeah, again, just relates so much, especially with the, you know, we repeat patterns, destructive patterns because, um, they feel safe to us.

And whether on paper they'll sound ridiculous, but because we've done them over and over, you know, that is why we repeat them. And when, when you talk about, you know, feeling rejected and being rejected and, you know, again, that was very much the way I felt growing up, the way I felt as a teenager. You know, rejected because I was a size 14, size 16 versus a size, you know, whatever kids are.

Um, teenagers are size eights, um, rejected. In the dance world, I was loved dancing, but because I had hips, I was always at the back. You know, I was never given the attention, you know, rejected at school. 'cause I was always just a very much a b student, you know, never really excelled. And yet, you know, I will continue to put myself in situations where again, I can be rejected because it's the only way that you know how to live.

Now my challenge is that I'm an old person who has had a string of completely disastrous relationships. I mean, half of them you can barely call relationships. You know, it is just like an absolute joke. I've never really had a proper boyfriend, like a proper loving grownup relationship. They've always been very toxic and very one-sided.

And, you know. Cheated on constantly, you know, with, oh, no, no, don't worry. Oh, it's fine. You know, like, let me make you some cups of tea. You know, it doesn't matter. Now, having that as a background, now what I'm finding is that I am doing the loving parent thing. I am doing the boundaries, but I think that, if I'm honest, I'm actually isolating myself from the world with them.

And again, it's that really fine line, isn't it? So a bit like you saying about coming off social media, I know there's, you know, different scenarios. It's like, how do we, how well, how do we know when we're protecting ourselves and being that loving parent to ourselves versus, you know, 

Caroline: just locking ourselves away.

Shell: Yeah, 

Caroline: yeah. It's a, I, I follow someone called Don Lancaster. I've been to a lot of her stuff, and she talks about boundaries, but she says it's either a, it's not a barrier. It's a boundary. There's a difference between a barrier and a boundary. And I think that that is very much I'm in agreement with you. So there's some, there's some things that I know that I have barriers up where actually I think I, I do need to be a little bit more, more brave.

Um, and you talk about it being like relationships. Uh, mine's more kind like networking events with lots of women. Like my barriers just go up. I find them extremely, um, like. I don't know. I, I really struggle with them, but I, I also know that there's deep connection to come from that.

Mm-hmm. That's what I, that's what I do. You know, I bring women together for the self-love rave and for my other events, and I create this, this space for connection. But at the same time, I find lots of women, um, you know, intimidating. Mm. Um, and I, I, I find it hard to be vulnerable, and so I do, I do like push, not push myself.

I do challenge myself to go to things like that and to put myself out my comfort zone and to potentially find someone in the room that I connect with, because that's another thing is I really struggle in large group scenarios. Mm-hmm. Like, um, I find them overwhelming and overstimulating. So I think it's partly to do with that as well, but it's definitely the, the, the woman thing.

And so that's, that's me. Um, and I think it's, you know, school days and the whole comes from the whole Yeah. Being different and like you and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, I, I think that there's a difference between a boundary and a barrier. 

Shell: Um mm-hmm. No, I love that idea. And actually questioning myself or anyone questioning themselves, is this a boundary now or is this a barrier?

Um, and I really, I really hear you with the women, women, women, women thing. Um. Obviously, you know, I've had female friends growing up. Um, again, very classic, A DHD. It would be a, a best friend, intense, you know, for like six months. And then like we never talk to each other again. Um, and um, and I always have been exceptionally fearful of women, of females, um, especially again, my industry being so male dominated.

Um, the females is changing, but females in hospitality when I was kind of coming up were always very aggressively, um, uh, assertive because that's the only way we could get ahead. And, um, you know, as we're hearing in the media right now about, you know, all these females coming forward about, you know, the sexual harassment in our industry, you know, we have to have to be incredibly, um, yeah, um, strong and forthright and all of that just to survive in our industry.

Um, coming into sobriety, um, I have met so many females. Um. All kind of same age as me on that same journey. And I now have, for the first time in my whole life, I mean, I've got friends, uh, female friends from youth, but I've got this huge circle, this sisterhood, what I would consider of females in my life.

Um, because I've started to learn to not be afraid. And I mean, and this really speaks to the work you do as well, but I mean, like what we're almost like brought up to not be allies, aren't we? Females? There's such an energy around us almost. Like I say, I can point out the reasons why I was fearful of females growing up, dah, la la my industry.

But I think even without that, we're always kind of pitted against each other. I mean, why I feel I know the answer, but 

Caroline: why? It's the patriarchy, isn't it? It's the patriarchy. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I said the other day to someone like if you. Cut me open as like a stick of rock, it would say, in the middle, infected by the patriarchy, any woman, because I, you just cannot, um, you just cannot be a woman and not be, you know, it's just the way it is.

Um, and so there's a lot of work to be done across so many different, like parts of being a woman in order to, to overcome it, like at home, you know, obviously I'm, I'm a wife and a mom, so it shows up there, it shows up like when I go to big group events with women, um, it shows up as I said, like in comparison to other women who are doing really well.

And, you know, uh, I, I think, I think it is partly also though, because. I think when you are out of alignment as well of who, of who you are truly meant to be, I think that can then have, um, you can, you know, you can be in comparison because you are not being who you are truly meant to be, or, you know, you can get triggered by other women because they are, they are showing up in, in a way that, you know, that you need to be doing as well.

And so you could be getting triggered. So, you know, so sometimes when I first, before I started DJing, um, and I didn't know what I wanted to do, I would get really triggered by, you know, women in the coaching industry. Um, because I'd be like, oh, you know, look at you just, you know, I'll be really judgy. I've got a really big judge in my head.

And then, um, and then. Later on after I, then, after I started DJing, I was like, oh, I feel, you know, really joyful and like, this is what I'm here to do. And then I would get triggered by people who were putting on big events and it was like, well, how come they can get the numbers and everything? And then I started doing it.

And so I didn't get triggered by them anymore. And then more recently, I've been triggered by, by people who are being really, um, brave about the fact that they are not on socials, that they're doing things their way and that they are all around peace and. You know, and just a bit of stillness and, um, I was like, oh, fuck off.

Get on, put some fucking house music on and get off your fucking boring yoga mat. Whereas now I've been forced into stillness, peace and everything, and it is so I think sometimes other women show us what we, uh, are craving inside, but are not being honest with ourselves around. So there's that as well.

Definitely. 

Shell: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've never, I've never judged again, you know, that, that mean judge. And, and, and, and I think that we, women definitely have a louder judge in their head than men do. Um, you know, again, it's not about being gender dividing, but I think that is the reality we're brought up to be pitted against each other.

Um, and you know, I don't think I've ever judged somebody ever. That. Um, if somebody came, hang on, do you want their life? I'd be like, no. I'd be like, fuck yeah. I want their thighs. I want their success. I want their partner. I want their, you know, whatever it might be. I want their confidence. All of that stuff.

So you are right. You know, I think those things always show up when, when it's most Yeah, when I'm feeling and, and, and it's because of being inauthentic. Because when I am in authenticity, like you say, it's you, you are solid. You are, you, you can't be shaken from that. And you allow others to exist in their authenticity because you know that there's no threat to your, to yours.

And until you get to that and, and again, and that's a daily practice. I mean, I really want to talk all about your self-love work, but, um, I mean, we've mentioned DJing a few times and starting at the age of 40, so I mean, what, what, how, what, where, 

Caroline: well, I was on quite a deep personal development journey, and I realized that I needed to discover my joy as part of that.

Um, because I was doing all the green drinks, all the, you know, all, all of that kind of stuff and, and all the healing work and the trauma work and everything. But it got quite heavy and it was like, right, who, who, but then I didn't wanna go out drinking with everybody that, that ship had sailed. I wasn't interested in mum talk at the gates.

Like that was just bored the hell out of me. Um, and I was like, well, I need, and I knew that I wanted to make an impact. I knew that there was a purpose. And I, I don't really like that word purpose, because I think our purpose is our whole life and everything we go through. I don't think our purpose is just like, right, this is what I'm here to do as a mission and I'm gonna bring it out into the world.

I think it's got two kind of, uh, cliched the purpose thing and, and it makes people think, oh fuck, I haven't got a purpose. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But so, but actually for me, it was about discovering joy. And then being able to do something with that to, to make a difference. And, um, and so I thought the, the way I discovered was my joy was asking myself the question, when was I most happiest?

Um, and when I got very honest with myself versus what I think I should think, like from like, you know, the should of like the academic world mm-hmm. It was like, well, it was when you were an after party and someone had a wicked sound system, an amazing set of tunes on CDs. And I would just literally filter through them all of like, like this one, this one, this one, yeah.

And like it would be a mission to keep the party going for as long as possible. No one was allowed to leave. It was like, no, everyone get up. Dancing. Dancing. Um, and so I was like, right, well maybe I should start DJing or try DJing. And I borrowed some decks and. I just came alive. When I pressed play, it was like fun.

Caroline came back, rebellious. Caroline came back, joyful Caroline. Um, and then that was the start of it in 2019. And I announced to everybody on Facebook, I'm going to become, I'm a dj. And I was like, holy shit, she's lost the plot. And then I, I just started doing some online raves in lockdown. Like trialed it, honed it, got feedback, built it, built it, built it, and then took it out on the road.

And then, you know, over the last two to three years, they've just been really successful. And there's been, there's a team now they're an experience, you know, they're sober, raves, sober, alcohol free. I say 'cause it's more, yeah, it's not about the sobriety, it's more about the joy and the fun and the women coming together and everything.

And, and just going back to like. What we were talking about with, with the women and walking into a room and all that comparison and everything. One thing that I remember, and one thing that I say to my ravers all the time is that every single woman is struggling in one way, shape, or form. It doesn't matter if they're at the top of their game over there, they might have major relationship issues or it might just because they are an earth mother, they might have a serious shit going on with money.

Do you know what I mean? And every single woman has got a story and, and you know, and that's the thing that actually helps me move into my heart away from, um. This, you know, mask of and barrier towards other women is to just remember that, and that's a practice. Um, but that's what what I do within my events is create spaces that allow people to drop people drop into their hearts.

And I do it on substack as well with my writing. It's very authentic, real writing about my own self-love journey. Mm-hmm. Um, but, and everything I'm, I'm going through, but everything I've learned over the last 10 to 15 years, um, that has really got me to where I am now. But you have to keep remembering it and you have to keep reminding yourself.

It's not like, oh, I've learned now that, you know, that behavior and doing things that way is, is, is solved me. It's bollocks. It is a constant journey. But I'm totally committed to myself. And I, I share that in a. In a hope to inspire other women to, um, you know, feel less alone about their crazy head, um, but also motivated and committed.

To themselves. 

Shell: Yeah, no, absolutely. I love that. And uh, um, I've been at a House of Happiness when, I dunno if you were meant to be on the decks, but you ended up on them. Oh yeah. It was amazing. It was just, and it was so joyful. And Neil, um, house of Happiness has been on a previous episode and, you know, it was much like your work.

It's, he's created these spaces, um, as of you where, well, neither of you are about sober sobriety, but they're spaces that I thought that I wouldn't be welcome anymore. Because I'd stopped drinking because I wasn't using drugs, and it was experiences. And I was saying to Neil how, like, when I got sober, um, I, I sold like all my clothes because, well, I needed, I was raising money to move house anyway.

Um, and I discovered vintage, and it turns out I'm a vintage shark. Um, but I sold everything that was, um, like vaguely going out. And, um, I bought a dress to do, to go to that particular house, a happiness, um, event. And so even just the practice, or sorry, the, um, experience of buying a secret dress, I didn't think I would ever need a dress, a joyful dress, a party dress, oh, I'm sober now.

Why would, what would I need a party dress for? So it is, even when you think about it that way, the fact that there was that safe space that said, come dance and put your fucking sparkles on. Yeah. You know, it was a miracle. 

Caroline: I mean, I love it. I love but yeah, something that, that I, I'll, I'll do it with the self-love rave is, you know, really encourage the women to, um, to. See the getting ready as part of the whole experience. And that doesn't mean like, oh, yay, let's get ready and we'll just have, you know, we'll, we'll do our makeup and we'll put our clothes on.

It's like, no, what you pick is a, a declaration of like tapping into joy. So I say pick something joyful. I, and then I also suggest that they just do themselves like it. If black is joyful to you and that's you, then fuck it. Come in black. If you wanna come in full, you know, glitter come in full glitter. If you just wanna be comfortable, but wear your favorite t-shirt, do that.

There's like literally no rules. Um, but I think a lot of them do, do dress up and we do face painting, glitter and stuff like that. And just that in itself is just so joyful. Um, and to be able to do that in an, in an alcohol free environment, which a lot of my followers are quite nervous of because they haven't done it before.

And I think a lot of people get brought again by their mates, like, you've gotta come and do this. And it's like, oh, I don't, I don't really know. Yeah, it's quite hard for me to explain what the self-love raises until you've actually experienced it and then they come and you can see the nerves as people come in.

Um, and, um, but then. But then what happens is, is because everybody is on the same level and because I've created a safe space by being extremely vulnerable myself, and then also, you know, spoken about what we said about every woman struggling, all that kind of stuff. Um, and given people full permission to be themselves with the height women as well, the hype women are there to help women feel really comfortable.

Shell: Mm. 

Caroline: Um, there's just so many aha moments for women around, um, you know, being their authentic self on the dance floor without alcohol. Mm. And how much easier it is than you think it's going to be, and how everybody's on the same level, and how much that makes it such a special night compared to a normal night out with alcohol.

Shell: Yeah, no, you're right because you're being exactly that. It's being vulnerable without, you know, an alcohol. There's a reason why we drink it. It does a wonderful job at bringing that confidence and, you know, and actually when you're explaining the whole kind of concept to getting ready, it just reminded me, and thanks for this.

Uh, it was actually really traumatic actually. If I think about getting ready to go out in my twenties as a teen, like late teens, obviously in my twenties, in my thirties. To be honest, even now I can find it quite traumatic. Um, I get really stuck in, especially now that I work from home. So when I was in restaurants, um, uh, I kind of almost created, even though um, there wasn't an actual uniform, I crafted this showgirl shell uniform and it would be these specific dresses from monkey glitter socks.

The eyeshadow always matched the glitter socks. And so I got created almost this character. So it made getting dressed quite easy 'cause it was almost like putting on a uniform. But now I work from home and I'm not really around people as much. Again, I'm finding it more challenging and, and, and, and I really struggle with.

That getting ready part to the point that it will stop me from going out. And I think that, I know that I'm not alone in that, whether that was twenties, thirties, when it was all about, okay, am I appearing the way I should for the male gaze because, you know, that was who I was dressing for. I'm honest, you know?

Yeah. Um, I was never dressing for myself or as well as am I dressing sexy like my friends. I mean, I can remember having full on breakdowns, tears, you know, and again, I know a lot of women will relate to this, you know, and, and men, you know, clothes all over the bed sitting there in despair, you know, having to drink because to get that confidence to pick something, you know, all my friends look gorgeous.

I don't, I'm not the same. And, and it does still, it still destabilizes me now because I don't have that uniform. I don't have that. This is what we wear to go out thing. Yeah. Um, so the fact that you are really talking about that, I think it's really important. 

Caroline: Yeah. 

Shell: I 

Caroline: do think it's quite a, um, I think it's a part that can actually stop some of the women coming.

Yes, 

Shell: a hundred percent. I nearly didn't come to that House of Happiness in London. I was staying at my sister's in London. I put the sequin dress on. Um, and it wasn't something I'd worn like anything like that for a very long time. Certainly not sober. And I felt so uncomfortable. I started to almost have a panic attack over it, and they're like breathing.

And the House of Happiness events are in the daytime, by the way. So it's, you know, it's great as well. I remember my sister being like, you know, just, it's fine. Just be calm and. For me. Also, the fact that it was at day, the daytime, it allowed me to go, if you get there and you don't wanna be there, you leave.

And it was, you know, like with transport and stuff like that, it made it easier. But no, I genuinely, I was, I was really struggled just to get to that very first one. Now I'll be like, fucking brilliant. But that very first one hard. Really hard. 

Caroline: Yeah, it is really hard. And I, I mean, I get it. I get it now. I get it.

What I get it with is like, I can't wear the same outfit again because, um, especially on socials and that, that's another, you know, I feel so free because I, you know, I was saying to you earlier, I can wet the same thing like over and over again, like five days in a row now and not have work. And it turns out Caroline and is just a slob.

And that is why. And I love that. I'm a slob. And do you know what I, 'cause usually, 'cause we were in eight, we, it, we we're in, what were we March? We're in March. Yeah. March. Um. Usually this time of year I start to think, oh, I want new clothes. And because just something about spring, like I'm, I just get like a clothes.

Yeah. But actually I've said to myself this year, 'cause this is another addiction, is clothes buying off vintage. Um, yeah, I'm terrible. I had a look at how much I'd spent, right. And the items that I actually wore and I wore, wore about 10% of what I've spent. And I was like, this is silly. And then I've just resold it all.

And the amount of time that that has taken from me when actually I don't need anymore clothes, I've just really, really gonna try and um, and not. Not buy any more at the moment. But because I'm not on socials, I don't have to worry about, like, if it's even for like po like today I was like, oh shit, I was up there like, I dunno what to wear, shall I wear this?

Or no, that looks stupid. Not stupid, but like, it doesn't look quite right. It doesn't look very dj, but I don't feel very DJ at the moment. I feel soft and like, oh. So yeah, so it is a big thing for women.

Shell: No, I totally relate to that. Sometimes I'll get changed in the middle of the day for no reason other than like, my outfit is just like, I don't want to look, I don't wanna feel, this isn't matching my inside. You know? Because again, I've also got loads of glittery, colorful things, even though I'm.

Basically a goth. Now, as I like to say, um, I'm really not, um, you know, I still got like, I love zilla, um, Zilla kids, those who've got loads of really colorful jumpers from them, but sometimes I'm just like, I don't wanna be that. It's almost like clothing puts this pressure on you to be a person. You are not 

Caroline: and you're like Exactly.

And

I think it's all about like.

How am I feeling? What, what's gonna make me feel safer? What, and like what can, because glitter and adding little jji things do, do make a bit of a difference to some people, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, it's just, it's that fine line again, isn't it? Of like the barrier boundary, like keeping yourself safe and all that, but also pushing yourself out to actually know, come on, be joyful.

Shell: Yeah, 

Caroline: no, do something joyful. Yeah, 

Shell: no, it is. And you know, that's one of the reasons that, um, I started with socks, um, as the first merchandise item because it could have been anything under the sun. Like, trust me, my A DHD brain has many ideas. Um, and I landed on socks because I love the fact that they are size inclusive, you know, no matter how big I've gotten small, I've gotten, you know, socks always fit.

Um, and I love the fact that there is, for me, they were almost like a superhero power. Kind of vibe wherein you can have them and only you know that you're wearing them. You know, you can have them covered a bit like Superman and he is like, woo, you know, or if you want, you can wear them loud and proud.

And again, I think that for me, dressing, I've learned over some time that sometimes I do need those little, you know, I have a pair of socks and originally I had a pair of socks that like can't, someone bought them for me that said Shell, yeah. On them. So when I knew I was gonna have a day that felt a little bit difficult.

I wore my shell Yeah. Socks because I was like, yeah, you know, what would shell do? Shell, yeah. And again, that's why I've got, you know, the, the socks that we've got coming out, um, and that we've started with and coming out is, you know, it doesn't have to be on the outside. You don't have to tell show, tell everybody that you're a sober cunt.

But if I've got them underneath something and I feel I need that little confidence boost, you know, I can be in a room and be like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not just sober. I'm a fucking sober cunt man. Yeah. Come at me. And there's a community feel to it as well, knowing that others are wearing it. But I think, you know, there is such power.

And it's interesting you said about the glasses. I actually, I dunno if I've got any nearby, I've got so many pairs here they are of, I've got millions of these like blue light glasses. Oh yeah. I've got lots of those. Um, and they're just plastic. Um, but when I feel vulnerable, when I'm in a situation where I am feeling quite low, confident, I wear them.

Um, and just having that little bit of distance. And weirdly enough, when I got my autism diagnosis, I believe this might have been one of the reasons. Um, but again, I think that comes with that age of discovering, understanding, compassion, that if I need to go into a social environment and wear my blue light glasses, my plastic frames to allow me to show up yes.

Versus alcohol, fucking wear them or, you know, have my naughty socks on, then I love the socks. That's okay. I've got naughty socks. I've got naughty socks on today. 

Caroline: See? And I bet you feel confident. What do they say? Well, actually they're, no, because, well, I, I feel a bit, I don't, I feel like they're the wrong ones.

'cause they're Christmas ones, but they say festive as fuck. Love 

Shell: it. 

Caroline: But all my, all my socks have the word fucking. 

Shell: Amazing. Well, I'll have to send you some sober, my favorite world sober as fuck ones for the days, or even those sober days. They're coming out soon. Or they'll probably be out actually by the time this, um, podcast is out.

And, um, love that. Look, I could talk to you forever because as always, I've just got so much in common and I, yeah. I wanna talk to you about, God, the music industry, about perimenopause. There's so much stuff, but I am mindful of time. Um, and there's one question that I always ask everybody, um, which is, you know, what does recovery mean to you?

Um, and I, I know a little bit about what your answer will be because you put it in your, uh, in your little form. And I love your answer. But yeah. What does recovery mean to you? Okay. Well, you said about, 

Caroline: would you like me to 

Shell: tell 

Caroline: you? Yeah, because I can't remember what I said. I, is it something to do with about, uh, bravery?

Courage, courage, 

Shell: commitment. 

Caroline: Okay. Yeah. It is bravery, courage and commitment. Nice. For yourself. Um. It's also honesty with yourself. Um, and, but also like, I think it's, it's really, um, actually understanding your tendencies, understanding how you work and putting things in place to manage that. Hmm. So I have lots of different things, um, and strategies that manage the, the whole variety of addictions that I can get sucked into.

Um, they include an accountability buddy that I message every single night to say all sorted, you know, uh, that's for food. I have a phone jail for my phone. So the phone goes away in the jail for hours on end. Yep. Um, I don't go to certain things. I don't, I don't go out. I don't, I don't stay in places. That with friends where there's drinking alcohol at night.

Uh, because it's not because I, I have an addiction to alcohol. That's one thing that I've never had an addiction to, which is interesting, isn't it? 

Shell: Mm-hmm. 

Caroline: Um, but I just don't like it. And, and also, but also it, it doesn't, there's other temptations around, you know, food, stuff like that. A hundred percent.

Yeah. And so that, I have a lot of different strategies to manage myself and, um, you know, sometimes it's like, oh, for fuck's sake, just be a normal fucking person that goes out for a meal and, you know, and goes and goes on holiday and stays in an all-inclusive resort and enjoys it. But an all-inclusive resort to me is fucking torture.

My brain spends all week going, I could eat that. I shouldn't eat that. And, and it's just overwhelming for me. Yeah. And so, so actually I've put these. These things in place. But at the same time, I was thinking about this the other day, that I, I'm actually slightly grateful as well for my addictive tendencies because I am so self-disciplined because of them.

Mm-hmm. And that means that my life is good. Yeah. I don't, I don't like get myself into scenarios where, you know, I am going down the same rabbit hole again and again and again. It's like, no, you, you just don't do that, so don't do it. And then, so the choice on the other end is all the things that I love to do, like DJing, spending time with my mates, having quality time with my husband, you know, um.

Having a mission and spreading, you know, inspiration across the world. And that's something that's really, really important to me. And something that I think that will only just get stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger because the becoming more disco ball and becoming more yourself never ends.

It just deepens. 

Shell: Yeah. Oh, what a great answer. And, and that right there, that is self-love. You know, self-love is a word that, you know, not that long ago, I couldn't even put those two words together. It makes me like, wanna bath. Yeah. And, but that's, that's how it, that's how it shows up, you know? And I think that, that, again, that's when you hear people saying, um, in 12 step rooms, you know, I'm a grateful alcoholic.

Nobody's grateful because of. The drama and the devastation, addiction brought them. But we're grateful because of the recovery it brings us. Yeah. And it gives us a totally different way of living that we wouldn't have had beforehand. An honest, authentic and self connected and community connected way of living, which, like you say, people who don't necessarily have to go through that would ever have an awareness 

Caroline: of, so.

Yeah, exactly. It is, it is really deep. And it, you know, I think that's what I said, you know, at the beginning, the deeper your pain. Mm-hmm. I think stronger the, the, uh, joy and expansion. Yeah. And that's very much kind of the way I live life. I trust life. I trust in my story. I trust in what I went through and I trust in, in the future.

And whatever life presents to me

Shell: no, beautiful. And yeah, I'm just, yeah, so proud of you and so grateful for you to come on,

it's a, it's been a real privilege to, uh, to have you here and to come have this wonderful conversation thank you so much for your time. All of your, um, all the information about where to find you will all be in the show notes. So anybody who wants to know more about Caroline's work and get involved with your self-love movement and the love, uh, self-love raves and everything, it will all be there.

Um, but thank you so much for being here today. A pleasure.