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The Midlife Mentors: Hello, and welcome to our other episode of the Midlife Mentals Podcast with me, James. And me, Claire. I promise not to talk about the weather, so I'm not going to. Please don't.

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The Midlife Mentors: Now, if you're listening to this, we are, of course, in the throes of the Soccer World Cup.

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The Midlife Mentors: England scrapes through, I don't know how much further they'll go. There's a football match at, like, 1 in the morning. That's the next one. Yeah. I'm excited because on the rugby side, we have the Nation's Cup starting, so we get the International Rugby restarting. And what else have we been up to? Well, you're off to paddleboard down the River Thames tomorrow, aren't you? I am, I've had to see a school friend, take a paddleboard, explore the unknown tributaries of the River Thames up in Oxford.

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The Midlife Mentors: But last time you did that, he took you down a funny little… and then you had to get a tetanus jab, so please don't do that again. I did fall onto a rusting shopping trolley that was buried in a river. But other than that, it was lovely. We go under… we go past some of the famous colleges, we go under, like, the stone bridges, there's all tourists in punts. Yeah. Yeah, it's good fun. And I'm seeing my school teacher that I haven't seen for 37 years.

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The Midlife Mentors: Amazing. Tomorrow, which is bizarre. I'll tell you all about that at some other point, but yeah, so we've both got quite funny days on tomorrow, but then you're staying out, and I've got the whole place to myself. Which I know you love. I love it! I love my own space. You know, separation makes the heart grow fondly too. Yeah, well, which is kind of what we're going to be talking about a little bit today, maybe. Yes, we've got an amazing guest today, I'm so thrilled. Yes! We have Matt Boggs.

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The Midlife Mentors: top dating and relationship coach, author of Cracking the Man Code, and co-founder of the Brave Thinking Institute, all the way from the west coast of the US. Matt, thanks for joining us.

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Mat Boggs: That's right, hey you guys, good to be with you!

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The Midlife Mentors: Great that you're here. Matt, if anyone hasn't come across you before, can you just give us a little bit about your journey? How did you become one of the world's top relationship experts?

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Mat Boggs: Well, my mission is increasing love in the world, one heart at a time, and I grew up in a personal development household. My mom is actually one of the world's leading personal development spiritual teachers.

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Mat Boggs: And her name is Mary Morrissey, some people listening might know. And so, I was drugged to all kinds of personal development events.

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Mat Boggs: from the time I was a little kid, and forced to do the exercises against my will. Like, you know, speaking of midlife mentors, I can remember one of my first experiences was sitting knee-to-knee.

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Mat Boggs: having to do eye-gazing with another man, like, I'm like 12, he's, like, 45, and we're eye-gazing, and then we're like, okay, we're having to share something deep, and he's like.

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Mat Boggs: crying, telling me about his divorce, and I'm so awkward, and don't know what to say, so I'm telling him about the girl who rejected me in, you know, in middle school, and…

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Mat Boggs: And so, and so knowing… but growing up in that kind of household, it was always impressed upon us that

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Mat Boggs: we are the center of our own experience. Like, we are the co-creators of our reality, and so if there isn't something going well in your life, don't look without and blame circumstances or other people. You are the one common denominator, and so look within. And so, in my,

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Mat Boggs: mid-20s, I was looking for love and just had crash and burn relationship, one after another. And it had gotten so bad that, that my mom was like, look, you're the one common denominator.

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Mat Boggs: Like, you need to figure your stuff out, man. And so she sent me off to this, personal development retreat, and it really showed me how my method for creating connection

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Mat Boggs: And my method for even creating deep relationships was completely flawed and not working.

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Mat Boggs: And the cool part was that I was empowered to change it. And so I went on a journey to figure out how can I create the ultimate love relationship that I want.

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Mat Boggs: And then that sparked, literally a 12,000 mile road trip around the United States. I don't know if you guys know this part. I drove, in an RV with my best friend, and we interviewed hundreds and hundreds of couples that have all been married over 40 years.

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Mat Boggs: for their secrets to what makes love last, and we called it the search for America's Greatest Marriages.

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Mat Boggs: And it changed my life.

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Mat Boggs: And ironically, or synchronistically, I met my wife on the last stop of that book tour.

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Mat Boggs: And, which was ultimately the whole goal in and of itself, was to find love for myself, and then share these secrets and principles with anybody else who wants deep, lasting love, as well.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that, Matt. I absolutely love that. That was, destined to be, right? So you've gone and interviewed loads of people about their relation, and then right at the end, then you meet… you're one!

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Mat Boggs: Yes. Yep. I love that. Yep, we celebrate, 15 years here in about a month.

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The Midlife Mentors: Oh, congratulations! I love that.

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The Midlife Mentors: So, Matt, like, we work with a lot of men, or James does specifically, a lot of men in their 40s and 50s, who say, like, I just don't recognise myself anymore. Is that something that you see a lot with the men that you work with, or even the women saying, this is what my partner has said?

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Mat Boggs: So, James, take us deeper in that, if you would, when they say, I don't recognize myself.

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Mat Boggs: What's the deeper pain?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, the deep pain is usually they feel like they're missing a part of themselves. Like, they have these expectations about where they'd be, or who they'd be, and somehow there's a mismatch. Either they've kind of got there, but realized it's not what they wanted, or else they haven't achieved it, and now they're kind of like, well, what's next? There's a big question there.

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The Midlife Mentors: And it leaves them feeling kind of unfulfilled, flat, and then that leads to that whole questioning around, like, well, who am I? Yeah, what is my identity? What do I want from life?

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Mat Boggs: I love that. One of the things that we… we… I'm a co-founder, so my mom started Brave Thinking Institute, I'm a co-founder with her, and so I run our Love and Relationships Division, but it's all based on this principle of

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Mat Boggs: brave thinking, which is living… courageously living from a vision, regardless of circumstances, situations, or conditions. Because most people, they'll look at their

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Mat Boggs: they'll look to circumstances or conditions for permission as to the life they can live and who they can be, and so, you know, a lot of us say, well, my job is to provide for my family, so I'm gonna give something secure, and I'm gonna work this job, or my parents had the expectation of me, and so I'm gonna do these things, and then…

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Mat Boggs: One of the primary principles is a technique called Notice what you're Noticing.

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Mat Boggs: And James, this is exactly what these guys are coming to you for, because they begin to notice, I don't recognize myself, I'm deeply unhappy like this, I thought I'd be so much further in my life than I am right now. And so, noticing what you're noticing, noticing the longing and the discontent.

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Mat Boggs: And most of us have been trained to shove it down. And I imagine that this is the work that you guys do in terms of helping people transform it.

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Mat Boggs: and turn it into something that they love, you can tell me more if that's accurate or not. Is that… is that the work that you do, Jay?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, absolutely. It's helping them, like, get clear, like, reconnect with their values, right? Because here's the thing, often when we're younger, we're pretty well informed with what our values are, but then we don't recheck back in with them.

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The Midlife Mentors: But they've informed all of our choices, our career, our relationships, and suddenly we're like, what I'm doing doesn't fulfill me. Well, your values have shifted and changed over time with experience, of course, but you haven't checked back in, so it's kind of resetting that internal compass, and then giving people clarity.

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The Midlife Mentors: And I guess the motivation to go again, because that's the other thing, a lot of men are like, oh, I just, you know, have I got the energy to go for it? And it's like, yes, you have, you just need that little boost to get going.

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Mat Boggs: Yes, no, I love that. I love that work that you're doing. And Claire, do you work with men as well? Do you coach?

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The Midlife Mentors: So I coach women mainly, but I think the work that we do… well, the work that we do has overlapped so much, because we've run retreats for, oh, like, 12, 13 years, and it's men and women that have come on that. Some of them are kind of, like, solo travellers, some of them come as couples, and then just the work we've done in organizations. You get to see… you get to see a lot of,

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The Midlife Mentors: Well, lots of the friction.

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The Midlife Mentors: And a lot of the similarities, actually, between men and women, and then we obviously come at it from a hormonal perspective as well, so, like, the menopause and the andropause coming together, because at midlife, that impacts us hugely.

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The Midlife Mentors: Hugely, right?

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Mat Boggs: It does. So, well, one of the… one of the…

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Mat Boggs: Primary ideas is the frames we use for life.

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Mat Boggs: And ultimately, the beliefs that we impose upon life, and I'm sure you guys know this and teach this and train this, but the… like, everything that we see and our perception of the way reality works

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Mat Boggs: is filtered through our reticular activating system, right? The rest. And so, it literally is so strong that it will cause you to see things that you believe and miss things that are there, but you just don't believe are there. I'll give a perfect example of this.

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Mat Boggs: We were leading one of our big events, and a woman in her midlife came up to me, and she was like, Matt, I mean, this woman was so put together, like, dressed well, and you could tell she was very successful, and she was like, there's no men at my level.

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Mat Boggs: There's just, like… and it was a deep belief, like, I've done all the work on myself, and I'm spiritual and successful, and I can travel, and do… and there's just all those types of guys are already married or taken. It's a very common belief.

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Mat Boggs: So, she's telling me this, and we're on our way to a VIP lunch experience that she has a ticket to.

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Mat Boggs: And so, we're headed down this big escalator, and ironically.

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Mat Boggs: A very good-looking man, in her age range, dressed in this suit with, like, this beautiful overcoat on, comes up the escalator.

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Mat Boggs: But she is so entrenched in her story, she's looking down, telling me how there are no good men. We get to the bottom of the escalator, I'm like, let me just interrupt for just a moment. I know you're telling me there's no good men, but did you happen to see that guy?

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Mat Boggs: up the escalator, who literally looked and smiled at you as we rode down, and she was like, what, what, where? And, like, the guy at that point was just exiting, she could see him dressed in the thing, and, like, he walked out the other way, and she was like.

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Mat Boggs: Oh, like, no. And so we had a beautiful conversation around how if we don't challenge our beliefs, if we don't actually get our beliefs aligned with what it is that we would love, and the possibility of that, we're gonna miss all the opportunities that are coming our way. And so this idea of longing and discontent.

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Mat Boggs: I'm dissatisfied. So many of us have been trained that we have to be grateful for what we have.

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Mat Boggs: That we can't want more.

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Mat Boggs: And that's what's called either-or thinking, and that is a paradigm. That is a limiting belief, that you can… what if it's possible to be fully grateful for the amazing family you have, and the health that you have, and the children, and the career, and all the good things, and at the same time, still want more, because what we believe

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Mat Boggs: is the longing and discontent that you feel. This, like, I don't like this about what's happening, or I'm feeling called to something that I'm not experiencing yet, that's actually a signal from your soul.

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Mat Boggs: That's what we believe. We believe that that's higher power calling you forward, beckoning you to the what's next, but we have to get in tune with it.

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Mat Boggs: And ask it, and say, hey, what is it that you're speaking to me about?

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Mat Boggs: And the ultimate question of letting yourself ask, what would I really love?

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Mat Boggs: Like, what would I love? Well, and we're talking about relationships. What would I love my relationship to look like?

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Mat Boggs: And this is one of the key areas of being able to share that in a way where your partner doesn't feel criticized, your partner doesn't feel like they're not doing enough, but you can co-create something amazing that you want together from, ultimately, a shared vision.

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The Midlife Mentors: Oh, I love that. I love that. And yes, yes, yes, agree with all of that. Everything you said, I'm like, inside, I'm like, yep, that's what we believe, that's what we teach, it's awesome. So, Matt, why do… this is, I'm gonna love this question. Why do so many men become emotionally unavailable?

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The Midlife Mentors: Right? So actually, I don't even know whether that's a fair thing to say, because I'm putting it in quotes. If you're watching the video here, I'm doing a little quote thing. Why do so many men become emotionally unavailable and pull away at midlife, even though they deeply love their partner?

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Mat Boggs: Yes, so… and so the experience often shows up, and Claire, you can… you can verify this or share a different perspective, but from the woman's point of view, because I work with women all over the world, and what they'll share is that

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Mat Boggs: They feel like he's gone distant, like, they want to create connection, but he isn't up for it, like, he doesn't plan things the way he used to plan things, or he doesn't take initiative anymore, and so she feels trapped, because she doesn't want to…

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Mat Boggs: be the masculine in the relationship. Like, she understands polarity, she understands that

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Mat Boggs: In order to create romantic attraction, you have to have polarity. She wants him to be the masculine, but he won't step up, he won't lead.

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Mat Boggs: And so it's really frustrating, and he's also not sharing, connecting. When we talk about emotionally unavailable, it's just… there's not that emotional connection.

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Mat Boggs: And so, one of the…

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Mat Boggs: keys that I've seen is… that drives this pattern, that actually creates what I love about Cracking the Man Cut, which is a book that my… my audience has asked me to write for 15 years, and finally, because I had an online course about this, finally completed it, and so happy with it, because.

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The Midlife Mentors: No, Dom.

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Mat Boggs: say, well, what does it do? I feel like it gives us X-ray vision to be able to see past the presenting behaviors to the deeper needs of our partner, which is where you can build real connection.

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Mat Boggs: And so, it's like, okay, well, why is he shut down? Why is he pulled away? Why is he not opening up? And if you understand, this is what I believe, and what I've found in my research, is that a man's deepest needs are the need to feel

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Mat Boggs: capable, And competent in providing and protecting for the woman that he loves and his family.

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Mat Boggs: So, in other words, we need to feel competent that we can provide you with the experience you want.

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Mat Boggs: well then, what is it that indicates we're doing a good job? Every man wants to succeed. Like, you're like, well, what… every man, if he feels like he's not gonna win.

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Mat Boggs: succeed, be able to do the thing, every one of us are gonna pull back and not, engage. Like, if we feel there's no chance at poker, we won't even enter the game. If we feel that there's no chance that we can win at a sport, or even compete at the sport, we're not gonna enter the game. We just stand on the sidelines. We'll let everybody else play.

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Mat Boggs: So, in a relationship, what is the signal that lets us know that we're winning with you?

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Mat Boggs: Well, it's your happiness.

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Mat Boggs: It's your feedback. It's the smile on your face, it's the… it's the signals that we're getting.

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Mat Boggs: And the challenge is, most… the… one of the main common behaviors is when a woman isn't getting what she wants, what she does is she criticizes, corrects, or micromanages in order to get what she wants, which is the opposite signal. It signals, you're not enough, you don't know what you're doing, you can't give me the experience I want.

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Mat Boggs: And so, therefore, enough times of that, it's like the slow death of the connection. Enough times of that, the man will finally just throw up his hands and say, fine, you do it.

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Mat Boggs: Like, I'm not gonna… I'm not even going to engage because I can't win with you. So, the safest bet is to let you plan the date, because you'll plan something you like. The safest bet is to let you do the thing, because…

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Mat Boggs: At least you're gonna get what you want, which is ultimately what he wants. So he's taking the most efficient, practical strategy for how to get you what you want.

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The Midlife Mentors: Oh, man, they're so glad!

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Mat Boggs: Thoughts?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yay! Thoughts back.

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Mat Boggs: James, what do you think?

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The Midlife Mentors: your thoughts. I've got so many thoughts around that. Yeah. Because we've experienced that. Yeah, we've experienced that, and I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I mean, I think…

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The Midlife Mentors: I think what I've observed is that often women are looking for that deep emotional connection, more or less all the time.

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The Midlife Mentors: And if they're not getting it, they're prepared to vocalize that and ask for it, like you say, give those… give those corrections. Whereas I think men tend to be like, oh, you know, as long as everything's…

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The Midlife Mentors: all right, I'm doing the inverted commas things, I'm just going to keep my head down, because I don't want to risk rocking the boat, making things worse, so if things are okay, I'll just keep my head down and carry on like that. But of course, over time.

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The Midlife Mentors: That leads to a bigger mismatch between what the female and the male is looking for.

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The Midlife Mentors: So good. I mean, we've had this in our life. We share our journey very openly, so I definitely went… everything you just said, and we've witnessed in our own marriage, definitely that emotional disconnection a few years ago.

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The Midlife Mentors: yeah, the woman, it's almost like, I don't want to use this in a derogatory way to describe it, where we get a bit grabby, and I don't mean physically grabby. We get, like, panicked, it's almost like… and then that panic of, why is he pulling away, why isn't he emotionally connected, does turn into that criticism, the micromanage, the… the, oh, okay, fine, I've got to step into the masculine here. I don't really want to.

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The Midlife Mentors: But if I want to get things done, then this clearly isn't working. Like, my ability to communicate here is clearly not working, so we also kind of throw our hands up in the air and go, right, fine, well, we'll take on the role of being the man here.

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Mat Boggs: Yeah, so, I'm sure listeners and those watching are like, well, what do I do then? Because.

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The Midlife Mentors: It's.

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Mat Boggs: We all do what we've been trained to do, or what we believe is going to give us the best outcome. And so, the instinct is to, well, if something's not going right, let me point out where it's not.

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The Midlife Mentors: I'm doing right now.

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Mat Boggs: to give him an idea of how to make it right. Very… it makes sense from one level, but not if you understand exactly how the masculine individual is wired up, and what triggers

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Mat Boggs: the masculine's feel-good chemicals. I'm using masculine because we all have both masculine and feminine energy. Most men, their home base is masculine energy. And so, for these guys, our feel-good chemical is dopamine.

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Mat Boggs: Like, dopamine… now, we all want… we all have oxytocin, dopamine, and all these different neuro… neurochemicals, but the one that primarily drives masculine energy is dopamine. This gets triggered when you have accomplished a goal.

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Mat Boggs: When you have, exceeded your best, when you have done something more efficiently, you trigger dopamine. This is why men love to put all the dishes in the dishwasher at once, and stack them up. This is why we love to…

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Mat Boggs: We don't want to do two loads of laundry. Let's shove it all in there, because it's more efficient to get the one than the two. This is why we love… men…

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Mat Boggs: How many women do you know are wearing, pants where the zippers unlock at the knees, right? That's a very masculine thing.

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Mat Boggs: Because, shoot, one pair of pants and a pair of shorts in one thing? That we're, like, that is so efficient and practical, and, like, the bracelet that turns into the paracord and the compass and the fishing line? Come on now! Like, we love that stuff! And so…

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Mat Boggs: And so this is the masculine energy. Well, masculine energy is, you're gonna accomplish a goal.

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Mat Boggs: Where feminine energy is oxytocin-driven, it's connection, collaboration, communication. So, So, for example,

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Mat Boggs: If you understand that, oh, masculine energy is mission-driven.

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Mat Boggs: It's not fault-driven. If he feels like he's not achieving the goal, he's failing, then he'll just retreat. But if you're like, hey, here's the mission, here's what I would love, would you provide this for me?

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Mat Boggs: You will be amazed. A woman just told me, she was… she said, hey man, I just read your book, and, like, I've been married for 25 years, and, like, I'm learning stuff about my husband I've never known, and so I'm doing some of the things you suggest in the book, and you'll tell… and you're right about how he's gonna respond, and he literally responds exactly the same way.

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Mat Boggs: Like, I'm like, you know, hey, honey, I would love to go on a hike this weekend, would you create that for us? Like, here's the mission, time, outcome, here's what I want, and you'll see him, like, stretch up, like, okay, yeah, I would love to do that.

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Mat Boggs: The key, though, is if you have a history of making him wrong because he fails at things, it will be, in the beginning, an uphill battle to get him to take initiative, because he doesn't want… we don't want to fail. We don't want to, misstep. And so, the key is…

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Mat Boggs: something called the appreciation practice. Like, if you're in a sort of a downward disconnect spiral in the relationship, one of the primary things that can flip the switch on this, and it is brilliant, and it is amazing, and it can go both ways. Guys, we can do this for…

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Mat Boggs: our ladies, or we can do this for our partners, it could be same-sex relationships, whatever, but the appreciation practice is in the morning.

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Mat Boggs: You wake up, and you think about 3 things that you admire about your partner.

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Mat Boggs: Because that shifts the energy. Like, you know how we can feel each other? We can feel when your partner's pissed off. You can feel when just something's off. We're not just these physical beings, your energy reaches out. So, 3 things you admire about your partner.

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Mat Boggs: And at night, you share 3 things that you appreciate about them before you go to bed.

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Mat Boggs: It seems so basic, and so, like… Simple.

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Mat Boggs: But what ends up happening is you start to fill his cup.

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Mat Boggs: for his belief that you believe in Him.

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Mat Boggs: His belief that you believe he can be the partner that you want him to be.

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Mat Boggs: And when that belief gets filled, you will be amazed at the levels of which he goes to initiate wanting to make you happy and provide the things that you want.

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Mat Boggs: There was a, one of our retreats that we do, there was a couple, a woman came to me, she'd been married for 20 years, she was like, man, my husband and I haven't had sex in 7 months, she's like, we're super disconnected, like, what can I do to change this? And he's lost his confidence because he lost his… he's out of work.

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Mat Boggs: For the entire year. He's tried to start his own business, it didn't go well, so he's lost his confidence in, like.

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Mat Boggs: And so, she's also a coach, so she's kind of, like, coaching him, so now they have this relationship where she's coaching him, and he's not moving, and they're just totally disconnected. So I told her about this appreciation practice. I said.

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Mat Boggs: I said, when was the last time you really…

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Mat Boggs: complimented him and appreciated who he was. Oh, this was her comment. She goes, I've lost respect for him.

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Mat Boggs: How do I gain respect back? Which is one of a man's primary needs. So how do you gain respect for someone for whom you've lost respect? I think that is a massive, massive topic.

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Mat Boggs: And a foundation for a relationship. So I said, here's the thing. Energy flows where our focus goes. Of course you're not going to respect a man where all you see is him…

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Mat Boggs: Sitting on the couch, and the failures that he's had over the last year.

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Mat Boggs: So, it doesn't mean that's the entire story. What about him can you admire? What about him can you appreciate?

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Mat Boggs: while you're building a bridge to something new. And so she, that night, she said… she did the appreciation practice, and she said it was… she shared me the results the next day. She was like, Matt.

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Mat Boggs: I tried this out, and it blew my mind. At first, he didn't believe me when I was telling him what I appreciated about him. Like, he was so not used to hearing this.

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Mat Boggs: She goes, but after I shared a few things, I was like, no, honey, I'm sincere. Like, I love your work ethic and your courage to even leave your job and go for what you would love. I just want you to know how much I admire you for that. Like, that is so amazing. And she said, Matt.

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Mat Boggs: he opened up, and, like, the floodgates opened. I couldn't stop him from talking. Like, we needed to go to bed. Like, he was just sharing and sharing and sharing. It was the most connection we'd had in 8 months.

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Mat Boggs: And so, I love this appreciation practice because it fuels the respect in the relationship, which then leads to deep connection. Or deeper connection, I should say.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that. I absolutely love that. And is that a practice you think would help? Like, something I wanted to ask you.

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The Midlife Mentors: Do you think a lot of men, particularly in midlife, because of their age and the way they were raised, because of cultural norms, sometimes lack the emotional language, or even the courage to be vulnerable and connect in the right way with their partner?

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Mat Boggs: It's a skill.

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Mat Boggs: So, I would say, you know how the competence-confidence loop?

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Mat Boggs: when we say, lack the courage to do it, well, that… it… naturally, we become more courageous to do it as we begin to identify

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Mat Boggs: And know how we're feeling.

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Mat Boggs: Number one, have the belief that it doesn't make us weak to communicate how we feel. The belief, and so, ladies, we can really, really help our men, because one of the challenges is.

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Mat Boggs: We're meant to be in lots of relationships, we're meant to be the stable one, the provider, all of this, and if we share areas in which we are feeling insecure or have fear.

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Mat Boggs: Can our woman hold space?

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Mat Boggs: And not freak out, and not…

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Mat Boggs: get into solvent mode, and not get into, like, well, you should have mowed, and all of that. Like, just let your man actually have his experience, knowing that everything's gonna be fine. So that… so creating the safe container is half the equation. If you want to foster more of this, on both sides, we have to create safe containers. Men are… we're guilty of…

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Mat Boggs: Our woman sharing something and then fixing it.

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Mat Boggs: Like, well, have you tried this, and have you tried that?

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Mat Boggs: My…

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Mat Boggs: I'm laughing because my… I'm so guilty of this so many times. My wife was, pregnant with our second child, and we're brushing teeth one night, and she's…

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Mat Boggs: just crying, like, tears just streaming down her face, and I'm like, honey, like, just out of the blue, I'm like, what's going on?

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Mat Boggs: And she was like, look at this, and she showed me Instagram, and her, like, 4 best friends are all out to dinner together.

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Mat Boggs: And she's like, they didn't even invite me to this.

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Mat Boggs: And in my infinite wisdom, I said to her, Well, did you tell them?

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Mat Boggs: like, the last 4 times they invited you, you told them you couldn't go, because you're not feeling good, because you're pregnant, and this and that, so they probably just assumed that you weren't feeling good, like… like, have you told them that you want to hang out with them? Maybe if you told them…

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Mat Boggs: Oh, that didn't work. At all. She did not like that. And I… and what's funny is I teach this stuff, but the… what does fixing it do for me?

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Mat Boggs: I get a dopamine hit.

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Mat Boggs: Right? The last thing we want is our partner to cry or be frustrated or scared. So, we instantly go to fix-it mode so we can feel better and get the dopamine hit. It's so ingrained that I even forgot, and I teach this stuff, and I was like, oh, whoa, whoa.

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Mat Boggs: You know what, I apologize. Yes, it sucks when you see your friends and they didn't even invite you, I totally get it.

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Mat Boggs: And, and tried to course correct, but the train had already left the station that night.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that. It's something we talk about all the time, that men just do go straight into solution mode, whereas the woman, she's just like, I just want to be heard and acknowledged that you understand how I'm feeling, whereas, you know.

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The Midlife Mentors: We're learning that still, aren't we? I mean, it was so funny the other day, we had a really similar thing, and I was really emotional about something, and James tried to fix it, but actually he caught himself, he was like, I'm trying to fix that, aren't I? Like, I'm trying to fix it, and I was like, yeah, and he was like, you just want acknowledgement, don't you? And I was like, yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: But don't say it's acknowledgement, because that doesn't sound very emotional, so just…

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Mat Boggs: Claire… Claire, let me ask you this. This is something my wife and I have adopted. I want to know your take on this, if this… because people are like, well… because sometimes we don't know. Like, our woman's bringing us something they're feeling frustrated or angry about, and they're just venting.

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Mat Boggs: And I don't know, does she want, any…

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Mat Boggs: strategy here, or does she just want validation? And so, what works for my wife and I, and I love this, because every couple gets to create their own kind of shorthand language together.

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Mat Boggs: What works for us is that if I don't know, I'll say, are you wanting me to put on the strategy hat and help you solve this, or are you just wanting to vent and feel fully received?

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Mat Boggs: And she'll tell me. And she'll say, I just need a vent right now. And honestly, it goes both ways. Sometimes, she'll try to fix something for me where I'm just wanting a vent.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yep.

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Mat Boggs: And I'm like, no, I just, I just wanna… I just want to just get it out, I just need to get it out right now, you know?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, and that does happen both ways, actually. Yeah, it does. But James has got used to… I love the fact that it's all about growth, it's not about perfection, is it? It's about actually being willing to learn about each other, and I think that's part of the beauty of it. If you can see in each other that you're…

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The Midlife Mentors: that you're trying. You know, like, that you're genuinely trying. It really takes the sting out of it, even if you get it wrong.

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Mat Boggs: Yes, yes. Let me, let me share, if you want to go down this road, just I'm feeling inspired in this moment to share for the audience some, some, best practices that have been developed and well-researched over time. I teach to my clients, it absolutely works for me in terms of communication to create closeness.

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Mat Boggs: And, and some… but these really, really work when you've got an agreement together to say, hey, let's live from this way of being. Let's create… this is the vision that we want to strive to.

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Mat Boggs: And, none of us are gonna be perfect at it, but let's live into it.

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Mat Boggs: And so, one of them is where you have an agreement that

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Mat Boggs: You're gonna shovel while the pile is small.

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Mat Boggs: So, in other words, if you're feeling frustrated about something, and it goes at least 24 hours, like, sometimes it's like, should I bring this up? It's not really a big deal, like, dude, James left his underwear on the bathroom tub, like, it's no big deal. But the next day, if you're still feeling frustrated about it.

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Mat Boggs: We make an agreement that it's better to deal with an issue when it's small, so you can knock it out, than wait until it gets huge.

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Mat Boggs: Like, when do we want to deal with it? Let's deal with it when it's small. And so you might have more conversations than you would otherwise have, but they're way easier to solve, and they create… they keep the connection clean.

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Mat Boggs: in your daily life, because we're living life just like we shower every day, we brush our teeth multiple times a day, because life gets dirty, relationships, we get to shovel while the pile is small. So that agreement saying, hey, honey.

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Mat Boggs: I want to shovel ball, the pile is small, this is not a big deal, but I want to… I love you, and I want to keep the connection strong, so do you have 5 minutes to talk right now about this?

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Mat Boggs: And so, that's number one. Number two is some really great communication strategies, and I would love your guys' take on this, and anything you want to add to this. But, no, there are communication techniques that are absolutely

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Mat Boggs: detrimental and cancerous to the connection and the relationship.

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Mat Boggs: One is name-calling, where you say, you know, you were so selfish yesterday when you left your underwear on the thing, on the… blah blah blah blah blah.

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Mat Boggs: The other is, or, you know, you're such a selfish person. The other is labeling, and it's a cousin to name-calling. Labeling is where you say the behavior was a certain way. Like, that was so disrespectful, you being late to dinner with my family. And you call the behavior lazy, disrespectful, whatever it was, selfish, you know.

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Mat Boggs: such an asshole thing to do, like, whatever it is, right? So, labeling…

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Mat Boggs: Using always and never, so globalizing a behavior, you never clean up, you always do that.

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Mat Boggs: But some ones that are a little less obvious is, teasing.

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Mat Boggs: And how you like to tease. So…

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Mat Boggs: I grew up in a family, we loved to tease.

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Mat Boggs: That was our main way of connecting. But teasing was somebody's laughing and enjoying the moment, and somebody's upset and angry. Like, that's teasing. Versus playing is you're both laughing, you're both enjoying the moment.

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Mat Boggs: And so, I've had to completely unlearn that from my family history, and and I am a giant advocate for it. Yeah, it might not… you might lose some laughs yourself, but you'll gain the overall connection, and a way deeper relationship. So…

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Mat Boggs: So, no teasing, no hitting below the belt, meaning if you know somebody's personal sensitive spots, you don't go there.

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Mat Boggs: So, those are the things that you make an agree… oh, and no bringing up the past.

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The Midlife Mentors: Whoa.

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Mat Boggs: And so here's the thing, I teach my kids this one, and they're… and they'll… they… and, like, people… what we generally will do is we'll stack the past, like, you left your underwear out, and last week you did it too, and two weeks ago, I've been having to put your underwear away for 4 months!

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Mat Boggs: No, that's out of balance. You cannot bring up the past. It's, let's deal with this one issue.

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Mat Boggs: It's a game changer, and my kids are so funny, because we teach these to my kids, I have a 7, 9, and 11-year-old, and they totally use this on each other. They're like, you know, you're wearing my shorts, you know, those are my shorts, and my, other… you wore my shorts last week, and my daughter said, hey, don't bring up the past, we're just dealing with these shorts.

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The Midlife Mentors: It must be so frustrating as well. I love those tips, fantastic. They're really, yeah, they're really amazing tips, actually. It's stuff, it's stuff that draws the barb out, out of, like you say, if you utilize those things, introduce that, it makes it adversarial straight away.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah. Yeah.

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Mat Boggs: Yes.

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The Midlife Mentors: Matt, what's one of… the one thing… Any man listening.

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The Midlife Mentors: To this, or watching this, should do today, that would make the biggest impact on his relationship?

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Mat Boggs: The one thing… oh, that's a great question. The one thing he can do today that would make the biggest impact on his relationship.

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Mat Boggs: Here's what it… here's… there's lots of stuff.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, I know, it's tricky!

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Mat Boggs: But one really practical… I always love to take these concepts sometimes, you know.

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Mat Boggs: relationship podcasts and whatnot are… stay very theoretical, and I'm like, I want to know what I can do right… I mean, it's such a masculine thing. What can I do now to get the result now, right? And so, here's what it is, and this comes from one of my mentors, Dr. Gay Hendricks.

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Mat Boggs: And he said this, ask your partner every day this question.

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Mat Boggs: Is there anything I could do or say today that would help you feel even more loved by me?

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The Midlife Mentors: Oof.

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The Midlife Mentors: Whoa.

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Mat Boggs: Is there anything I could do or say today?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, that is a mic drop. Sorry, say it again, mic drop, do it again.

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Mat Boggs: Is there any… is there anything I could do or say today that would help you feel even more loved by me?

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Mat Boggs: And I'll ask my wife that, and sometimes… and I won't know what she needs, like, I don't know, I'm not… you know, we're not mind readers, and so she'll say, I actually… she'll check in, and she'll say, I actually really need a hug from you right now.

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Mat Boggs: And then now, my masculine, mission-driven energy, I can do that for you. Boom, I give her a hug, I get the dopamine, she gets the oxytocin, we're both happy. She'll even say things like… funny things like, yes, I need you to take out that garbage and load that dishwasher. I'm like.

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Mat Boggs: I asked the question, I'm in, I can do that.

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Mat Boggs: Yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that. That is absolutely wonderful. You saw my reaction, I was like, I love that! What a great question. And, and I'm gonna ask from the female side now, so what's one thing

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The Midlife Mentors: Us ladies can do… Today, that would make the biggest impact.

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The Midlife Mentors: On our relationship.

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Mat Boggs: So this one, is a, needs a disclaimer.

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Mat Boggs: So, we know that nobody else can make us feel a certain kind of way. We get to choose how the experience we're having, by the thoughts that we're thinking, and the meaning we make out of it. And at the same time, understanding how your man is wired up.

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Mat Boggs: What he wants most is to deliver happiness to you. And so anytime he can feel like.

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Mat Boggs: he has created something for you, or created an experience for you that you love. It charges him up like no other. Like, why do we love, like… I read this in, you guys remember the Mars and Venus book by John.

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The Midlife Mentors: Good, man.

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Mat Boggs: So, John has this light in there that I was like, oh my god, man, this nails it, where he said, when men take you on a date.

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Mat Boggs: We're not just taking you to the restaurant. We feel like we own the restaurant, that we cooked the meal for you. When he shows you a sunset, he's not just showing you the sunset, he feels like he painted the sky for you. That's how connected we are to what we're trying to create, as far as the experience. So…

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Mat Boggs: We know that you can't make a certain person feel a certain way, but the line that is so powerful

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Mat Boggs: Is where you say… so, ultimately, you let him know he's doing an amazing job, where you say something he did or a way he was made you feel so loved.

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Mat Boggs: You say, honey, when you did that, I just want you to know, I felt so loved and cared about. I love that about you.

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Mat Boggs: My wife gave me, actually, what I call the UPP.

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Mat Boggs: The ultimate praise Phrase. Y'all remember back, Naughty by Nature, like, we had a hip-hop hooray? So, the UPP, the ultimate praise Phrase, and I was… we were driving in the car.

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Mat Boggs: And, like, I didn't know that this was gonna hit me so deep, but it did, so ladies, you can try this one as well. But she was just quiet for a while, and she looks at me and she goes, you know what, honey?

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Mat Boggs: You do an amazing job at being my man.

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The Midlife Mentors: Mmm…

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Mat Boggs: And I was like…

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Mat Boggs: I could feel it, I could feel it in my chest, I could feel it, and I said, well, tell me more, what do you mean by that? And then she started to list the things that I was doing. She was like, the way you play with the kids when you come home from work.

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Mat Boggs: And, like, you've got energy for them, like, I've always dreamt of that, like, the dad that plays with the kids, and the way that you take me on Friday nights, we have date night, and you just pour your focus on me after you've been coaching all day, and, like, and she gave, like, these amazing, like, specifics.

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Mat Boggs: And I told her, I was like, you know you just gave me the ultimate praise phrase. Like, I feel like I'm on cloud nine right now. So, ladies, give your man the ultimate praise phrase, let him know what he's doing for you.

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Mat Boggs: Changes your world.

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The Midlife Mentors: Love that. I love that, and I just kind of want to share that this has been a journey and a real… it was a real lesson for me a few years ago, that realization.

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The Midlife Mentors: If…

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The Midlife Mentors: how I wasn't showing up and getting the best out of James. It really hit me like a ton of bricks, actually, and it was one of the things that changed everything inside of me. So, my…

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The Midlife Mentors: my concept of myself changed in a really positive way, because actually what I didn't… I didn't want to be that version of myself towards James, which was critical, micromanaging, being in the mass… that wasn't good for me either. And so when I realized that, and I was like, well, what… that encouraging thing really kind of came through for me.

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The Midlife Mentors: And that shifted such a lot. Huge shift. And then, James, I hate to use this phrase, quick phrase, because it gets overused, but, like, stepped up.

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The Midlife Mentors: You know, and I think that can be just actually a bit derogatory, but you did, like, you moved into the space which he was designed to be in, and I probably don't do it enough, I could definitely do it more, but I hope I, you know, through that praise and that learning, you know.

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Mat Boggs: There's, I just actually finished a book called Multipliers. It's for more of a business book, but the concept is what you're talking about, where we can be what's called accidental diminishers, where we're not bringing the best out of people because of the energy we're bringing to the situation.

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Mat Boggs: And so, you ultimately created a space that helped unleash James' best.

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Mat Boggs: Right? And, like, I love that. Like, he's naturally at his best. And you can… we can either help each other.

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Mat Boggs: move into that space, or we can be unconscious diminishers, accidental diminishers, and dragging each other down. And so, you know, it ultimately… here's another concept that I found really, really valuable. We talk about x-ray glasses, and I write about this in Cracking the Man Code.

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Mat Boggs: that… every… Action.

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Mat Boggs: It'd be interesting, I don't know if you guys believe this or not, but I believe it comes from A Course in Miracles, that every action, no matter how skilled or unskilled.

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Mat Boggs: Is either an expression of love, or a cry for love, or a call for love.

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Mat Boggs: So it's meaning that everything is either

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Mat Boggs: an expression of love, or a call for love, which is usually sourced in fear, so it's all either love or fear. So, when you go to your partner, and they're complaining, or they're criticizing.

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Mat Boggs: Or your partner's angry, this is a great one. I use this with… my brother loves to use some, you know, well, often, kind of one of his default emotions is anger.

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Mat Boggs: And so, when I'm looking at the anger, it's like, well, what's… what is he afraid of right now that's driving the anger? So if I can ask myself that question, then it helps me not get defensive.

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Mat Boggs: When he's bringing anger my way, what is he… and so, the anger iceberg, underneath anger are usually one of three emotions. It's either fear, or sadness, or hurt, or betrayal.

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Mat Boggs: So, it could be a sadness from the loss of something that they used to experience that they enjoy, or the fear that they might lose something, or that something bad might happen, and so we get angry, and so if someone's coming at you angry, ask yourself, what are they afraid of?

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Mat Boggs: Or what are they scared of, or sad about? Or what are they feeling betrayed?

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Mat Boggs: That'll help you see past the presenting behavior. The same thing if we are feeling angry.

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Mat Boggs: Like, if I get so triggered or angry, I can step back and say, what am I…

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Mat Boggs: either afraid or sad of right now. Sad about.

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Mat Boggs: And, it's amazing how quickly it can get you to these brilliant answers, where now you can talk about the real issue, versus whatever we think the thing is about.

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The Midlife Mentors: So true. Well, we, we say it's like the little girl being triggered, or the little boy being triggered, and that might be really simplifying it, but that really helps us, because I, like, James sometimes says to me,

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The Midlife Mentors: what does your little girl need right now? Like, what's being triggered in the little girl inside of you, the one that's kind of sitting in the corner? Like, she's lashing out, or she's sitting in the corner, like, hiding away. And the same with the… with, you know, I don't necessarily say that to James, but I'm like, oh, I can see that there's something being triggered there, you know, that is… is coming from a place of hurt, or…

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The Midlife Mentors: Hi.

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Mat Boggs: Well, let me… let me ask you guys this, because I think, you're… this will be really valuable for your audience. So, two of you.

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Mat Boggs: Both coaches, both well-studied, both, highly aware of relationship patterns, right? And so, when you're in a dynamic, in a relationship, and,

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Mat Boggs: You want to be the partner, but you don't want to be the coach.

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Mat Boggs: Or, like, how do you two manage? Because I know a lot of people listening, they're listening to this podcast, because they're… they love learning and growth and study, so they're equipped with all kinds of tools. They might be coaches, they might be not, but how do you then bring that to your partner in a way where they're able to receive it and not feel like you're trying to school them?

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah.

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Mat Boggs: So what works for you guys… what works for you guys?

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The Midlife Mentors: That's a great question, I mean, like, after Claire's hit me around the head with a saucepan a few times…

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The Midlife Mentors: You know, it's always a work in progress, but I think what we've learned is to catch those moments early, like, here's the thing, like, you talked about shovel while it's small.

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The Midlife Mentors: The more you let these things spiral, the harder it gets to pull it back, so it's catch it early. And I think we've got really good at going, okay, hold on a minute, what's… what's really… what's really going on here? What… what is the thing we're talking about? What's the issue?

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The Midlife Mentors: And that normally diffuses it, but I kind of take the emotion out of it.

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The Midlife Mentors: So rather than just being like, oh, I'm really angry, I'm really mad, or you did this, or you did that, it's like, okay, this is how we're both feeling, this is how we're showing up, what's actually going on here, what's, what's really… like you say, it's like, looking, what's the thing underlying this? Because then, also, you're kind of depersonalizing it as well.

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The Midlife Mentors: And that makes it easier to talk about in a less emotionally charged way. I think with James, my reflection with how James approaches it as a partner instead of a coach is… it's literally the energy at which he comes at it, because us… us… we can all feel energy, right? But I can feel whether he is genuinely concerned, and genuinely curious.

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The Midlife Mentors: about finding out about what's really going on for me, and listening, as opposed to being the coach, which sometimes flips into telling, right? We know that that can… and that is harder, I think, actually, for the guy, for every reason that you've just said. It's… we go into that solution-focused thing, but actually, I… I respond a lot better when James

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The Midlife Mentors: is I can feel he's genuinely curious, and he's taking time to listen. There is space.

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The Midlife Mentors: between me speaking, he is then acknowledging that, he'll respond and say, this is what I've heard you say.

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The Midlife Mentors: This is what… this… am I correct in thinking that? That's when I know he's gone into…

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The Midlife Mentors: partner, rather than just coach-mentor. Yeah, I think that's really…

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The Midlife Mentors: Don't be afraid to take a pause, because, you know, we can get caught up in these situations where we, especially men.

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The Midlife Mentors: But when feelings start to run high, like, both people want to speak, but don't be afraid just to say, hey, you know what, let's just pause for a moment, and I'll say that to you, like, just pause. It's just, well, I just need to configure my own thoughts about what's going on, then go, okay, what I think you're saying is…

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The Midlife Mentors: Is this the way you're feeling? And then that helps, like, de-escalate.

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Mat Boggs: It's amazing how the gravitational pull to not want to do that is, right? How strong it is to feel like we want the other person to do it for us first. So this is where we're talking about relationships are like a muscle. These skill sets are like a muscle, because…

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Mat Boggs: In the moment… oh, what was it, just the other day, hmm, oh,

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Mat Boggs: Well, here's the example, like, when you know, okay, the… what I want to do is be… what I want to feel is validated. I want her to…

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Mat Boggs: to reflect it to me, but you know that the likely, like, the real move is, because I can't control her, it can only control me, is for me to actually lead the way here if she's not leading, in validation. And so… and the irony is, if I'm willing to help her feel fully heard.

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Mat Boggs: I don't even have to agree, just fully heard and seen and like… and like, is this how you're experiencing this? Then her chance of wanting to…

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Mat Boggs: hear how my experience is skyrockets, like, exponential. There's a couple of, little tools that's helped me over the years.

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Mat Boggs: and helped my clients over the years of, like, how do you create the pause? So, so here's a couple phrases that we can use, where, so my wife comes… my wife, this is a,

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Mat Boggs: I don't know, maybe a year ago or longer, she comes to me and she says, you know, there's the ultimate praise phrase? Well, this is the opposite of that. Like, whatever is the opposite, like, the dagger to the heart phrase of every man.

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Mat Boggs: She says, we're, again, brushing our teeth, and she's like, Honey?

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Mat Boggs: I'm not feeling close to you.

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Mat Boggs: And, like…

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Mat Boggs: And so, what I'm hearing in that moment is, like, it's like bombs going off all around me. I'm like.

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Mat Boggs: Like, you're failing, you're not doing a good job, you suck as my partner, and then therefore.

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Mat Boggs: what if she doesn't want to be with me? Like, is this the beginning of that conversation where she's like, I need… we don't want to be together? And, like, my whole nervous system starts to go into this fight-or-flight.

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Mat Boggs: And immediately, I can sense I want to defend

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Mat Boggs: myself so bad. I'm like, what do you mean we're not feeling close to me? We did this this week, we did that this week, last night we had this full-on conversation about XYZ. I'm wanting to, like, build the case and show her why whatever she's perceiving about not feeling close is completely false, because we are close.

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Mat Boggs: And here's why, right? That, that, that energy, right? So,

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Mat Boggs: This tool has saved my ass so many times, and is the tool of, tell me more.

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Mat Boggs: If you feel yourself going defensive.

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Mat Boggs: Just get your brain to say, tell me more, and it buys you, like, 15 seconds or so, because they'll start to tell you more. Where then you could take a deep breath.

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Mat Boggs: and then say, what I'm hearing you say, and then actually, here's the next question, is tell me more, and then, what would it look like if…

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Mat Boggs: Because here's the irony. I said, so I paused myself.

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Mat Boggs: And didn't say any of the stuff that I was thinking to say, and I said, tell me more. And she said, well, I'm wanting to feel more close to you, and I just feel like we haven't been close lately, and you've been working so much, and XYZ, and and so then the question was, well, what would feeling…

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Mat Boggs: Closer look like to you?

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Mat Boggs: So it's just explore, right? So I'm literally buying myself time, and she was like, well, it would look like us having a day-date, and going hiking instead of, like, always going to dinner, and this and this and that.

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Mat Boggs: And I'm like, Well, I can… we can do that.

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Mat Boggs: Yeah, no, I love it, let's do that. Maybe this… do you want to do it this weekend? She's like, yes.

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Mat Boggs: And I'm like, okay, is there anything else?

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The Midlife Mentors: She's like, no. I was like…

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Mat Boggs: It was so small. We were this close to having this big ol' argument, and me getting defensive, and this and that, and it really wasn't that she…

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Mat Boggs: the interpretation I was making about how she was feeling about not feeling close was completely false. It was actually very, very small. She just wanted to have more…

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Mat Boggs: Like hiking adventure.

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The Midlife Mentors: We like to do that, by the way. We like to kind of, like, whip it up and present it as a kind of, like, we're just not close, this is a big… and we don't mean it to, but actually, what you are saying there is so beautifully true. I see this in myself. I've said that to James in the past. I just… I don't… I feel… don't feel connected, I don't feel connected. It's always an unexpected time, isn't it, Matt? You're doing something else, like, it's completely out of the blue.

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The Midlife Mentors: We're just not close at the moment. You're like, what?

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Mat Boggs: Yeah! She's leaving! And we feel like she's leaving me!

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, but actually, I just want to go on a hike.

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The Midlife Mentors: I want to go on a hike with you! Matt, we could talk to you forever. This has been, incredible, amazing. You're just brilliant, and honestly, like, you need to go and buy this book. Like, having just spoken to you, and having an unbelievable amount of

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The Midlife Mentors: Tools that we can walk away with, and we're kind of like.

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The Midlife Mentors: like you said, we're coaches, and we've walked away with tons of stuff that we can use. You need to go and get Matt's book, Cracking the Man Code. How…

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The Midlife Mentors: can people find out more about you beyond the book as well? Have you got anything you want to share on your site? How do we connect with you?

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Mat Boggs: Yes, so CrackingThemancode.com is the best place to go, because not only you can get the book there, but I've added a whole bunch of beautiful bonuses and meditations and resources just as a gift when people get the book.

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Mat Boggs: that can support them as well. And so, that's the best place to go. Or just look up Mat Boggs on YouTube. We've got a lot of amazing, free

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Mat Boggs: Great high-value videos there as well.

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The Midlife Mentors: I've seen them! They're awesome! Matt? Matt, thanks so much. It's been such a great conversation. So, so good. Really appreciate your time. Thank you for all the work you're doing. You're doing an amazing thing.

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Mat Boggs: James, Claire, thank you guys so much.

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The Midlife Mentors: Thank you so much.