OK Senior Law Podcast
This is the podcast from the OK Senior Law firm in Tulsa Oklahoma. The hosts are the partners of the firm Jorjana Marx, Blaine Frizzell and Todd Whatley. They cover by themselves all the topics you need to know about Elder Law, Estate Planning and Medicaid benefits. They also have guests from around the Tulsa area talking about their businesses that can also help you succeed as a senior or the family of a senior.
OK Senior Law Podcast
Ep. 1 Navigating the Legal Maze of Elder Care and Asset Protection
Ever wonder how a deep understanding of elder law could protect your family’s future? It’s a question we tackle head-on in the debut of the Oklahoma Senior Law Podcast where I, Todd Whatley, team up with elder law aficionados, Jorjana Marks and Blaine Frazzell. Together, we peel back the layers of legal jargon to present a heartfelt guide through the complexities of estate planning and elder law. Jorjana shares her inspiring shift from the world of family law to the gratifying realm of elder law, driven by a profound desire to support seniors. Blaine brings a refreshing perspective, having swapped the battlegrounds of litigation for the rewarding path of fostering amicable client relations.
This episode is packed with expert insights on how specialized legal counsel can help safeguard assets from the staggering costs associated with long-term care. We dissect the significance of tailored estate planning, discuss the pivotal role of powers of attorney, and spotlight the dangers of entrusting your future to professionals who might not have a mastery of elder law. Our discussion is not just informative but also illuminates the unique joy we derive from making a real difference in the lives of Tulsa’s seniors and their families, ensuring they face the future with confidence and peace of mind. Tune in and join us as we embark on this enlightening journey through the intricacies of Oklahoma senior law.
Welcome to OK Senior Law Podcast, your guiding light through the complexities of a state planning and elder law, right here in the heart of Tulsa, oklahoma. Join us as we demystify wills, trusts, tax planning and elder care with insights from our distinguished legal experts Blame Frazzell with his advanced LLM in tax law, georgiana Marks with her passionate advocacy, and Todd Watley, a certified elder law attorney. Bring their wealth of knowledge and experience to empower you with the tools you need for peace of mind in planning your legacy. Let's navigate the intricacies of a state law together, ensuring your future and that of your loved ones is secure. Here is Blame, georgiana and Todd.
Speaker 2:That's right. This is the inaugural episode of the Oklahoma Senior Law Podcast and we are very thankful for those of you who are listening, and hopefully there will be more and more people listening. And today I am here with the other two partners, georgiana Marks and Blame Frazzell. Hey guys, how are you all?
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm good.
Speaker 2:Good, so this is our first episode. I've done quite a few podcasts and I am doing quite a few podcasts, so y'all go ahead and just introduce yourself real quick, some things that you think the listeners might appreciate and kind of what your passion is in this. So whoever wants to go first, Okay, I'll go first.
Speaker 3:Sorry, Blame, I couldn't. So I'm Georgiana Marks and I am in Tulsa. I was born in Tulsa, raised in Tulsa, I lived out of state and went to school at Baylor down in Texas and then right after that I moved to Seattle Washington and lived there for a while and then I moved back to be with my family here in Tulsa and so I started to do more estate planning and it just sort of naturally evolved into what people call elder law, or I hear some people call it like senior law. Have you Like some people call it that? They call it all sorts of things it seems like. But really we are helping the senior population and their families with the various things that come up for them legally, and usually that tends to be estate planning for their things and planning, you know, in the case of incapacity, with powers of attorney and doing a lot of planning with Medicaid to get people benefits for the facilities for the nursing homes and I think it just.
Speaker 3:I just sort of evolved into this because I had done early in my career I did family law, which was a lot of sticky divorce and child custody issues and I didn't really like that area of law so much. It wasn't really that rewarding and people my clients were having a hard time right. That was the part that I really identified with like oh you know, let me help you with this thing. And so that's kind of how I started doing the estate planning, too was. It was like I could help a person right With like and I could have a relationship with a person and help them with something. And then I just saw this huge need which you know about, todd from doing this for so long this need for the senior community like um. There's just more urgent and some they needed help right now, and so that seemed like a really good way for me to use my skills with people and um just relating well with people. So that's kind of how I I got to here, and then obviously we all started working together and here we are.
Speaker 2:Here we are. I think one thing is back on your family law. I did family law, family law I'm not sure if Blaine has done it, but the thing, the thing I realized was I didn't like my clients and my clients didn't like me Because I didn't get them everything they wanted.
Speaker 2:I didn't get them all of the money and full child custody and and everything. And they're like what kind of lawyer are you? Because you didn't get me everything. And I'm like, well, I don't think you deserve them for what you know it was. It was just a very confrontational with the other side, but many times with your, your own client.
Speaker 2:And the thing I love about elder law is we're on the same page. We, you know, we come together, we help older people and they appreciate it and they're the sweetest people they're. They're appreciative of what we can do for them and it's just a really cool thing. I think it's the best job in the world and it's just nice that we like our clients and our clients like us. And that's not always the case in law it's your pay to represent someone like them or not. But in in this line of work, I have found without fail, I like pretty much all of my clients and my clients love us and it's a very symbiotic relationship and so different than family law and many other areas of law. So, yeah, that's true. So, blaine, tell us about you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I'll date myself. And you know I passed the bar way back in the late 80s and and got right into thrown into the in with the sharks in the, with litigation and with some divorce and that type of thing. And it didn't take me very long at all time to realize that just wasn't what I was built for, because and I at one point, of course, I was working for another firm and and they let me interview a client and without fail, when clients would come in, my first, my first instinct in dealing with the clients was, oh hey, I think we can fix this. I bet we can do this by agreement. Let's just, let's just, let's just talk with the other side. And you've got some arguments, they've got some arguments. Let's all meet in the middle. And after they believe that my, my the older lawyer partner would always look at me and shake his head and said, blaine, that is not what that client wants to hear. They want you to be Rambo and you are their Rambo and they want you to go out and fight and kick and scream and get as much as they as you can get for them. And I just said that's just not my nature. I want to. I want to fix the problem without fighting, and I can see a path toward that. That's just the way my mind is built, and so I quickly realized that that the courtroom battle scene is not where I wanted to spend all my time, and so I got a master's in tax law that helped me with the estate planning side, with creating irrevocable trust and revocable trust, and and also with business.
Speaker 4:I did some business, a lot of business transactions, early on, but I was, I found myself really liking the estate planning, the probate and the guardianship, and. But as I practiced that for quite a few years until I met Todd, I knew in the back of my head there was a hole in my practice, and that hole was really what I considered the biggest part of the elder law, and that was clients who Wanted help with planning for long-term care, and I didn't. I didn't know the answers. I was, but I'm convinced that I was just like that other 99.9% of lawyers, including estate planners, that really don't know anything about long-term care planning. And I knew a few things. You know, oh, you gotta have less than $2,000 and you don't want to be making gifts within five years of applying.
Speaker 4:But that's all I knew and and and I'm convinced I'm like most other attorneys, and when I met Todd and he, he immediately recognized that Tulsa, and that really Oklahoma, has a big hole in the practice for lawyers who practice with long-term care. That really intrigued me and it's intrigued me ever since. I mean it's there. I find you know so much in the, in the, in the code and the regulations Regarding the rules for Medicaid, and it's really been enlightening for me and I love Telling clients about it because, almost without fail, when clients come in their, their eyes get really big and think what you mean there's, we can do some planning for this. Yeah, and I say yes, you can, and I'm really happy to be able to to share that with clients Who've who've really been told that there's nothing they can do and when they, when there really is a lot you can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's yeah, very well said, and I it surprises people and so so my name is Todd Wally, I am an attorney and I actually live in Northwest Arkansas but I drive to Tulsa frequently and we're all partners in this firm and I have been doing this for 25 years, and so both Georgiana and Blaine kind of said, well, we, we, we met Todd, and so I bring the History of this. I've been doing this way longer than I've been care to think about, but I am a certified adult attorney, which is kind of rare, you know, there aren't, I think nationwide there were about 530 certified adult law attorneys, and the reason I got into Oklahoma Number one, I live very close to it, but the only certified adult law attorneys were in Oakland homo city and that left the whole eastern half of Oklahoma with not real good representation when it comes to Elder law issues. And so I've opened up, or tried to open up, an office and started attending some Conferences and spoke at a few conferences and, yeah, blaine and Georgiana both came up to me and we started talking and Found out we were all pretty nice people and got along and we're like, hey, let's, let's do enforces, and so I love what I do. I absolutely love Working with older people and you know, just like Blaine said, people are so surprised there were so many misconceptions out there, and that's one thing.
Speaker 2:That's the purpose of this podcast is to get that information out there. And so this is our first one, please. We're gonna do our best to draw maybe two or three per month and Just address particular issues, and this is a great way to learn and To get this information as you're driving down the road, cleaning the kitchen, mowing your yard. You know I just love podcasts because it's free and it's easy to do. For us to do, it's really very easy and it's a great way to get information out there. And we also ask that you, you share this with other people. So, basically, let's talk about our firm real quick. I know we're we're going to do an another episode on the specifics of our firm and really things we do, but kind of, what areas do we focus on as a firm?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we overall, you know, tell people, oh, we're elder law attorneys and we do estate planning, and elder law covers so many different things. You know, it's not just anything that comes up for a person that's 65 or older, but what we specifically focus on is estate planning for seniors, planning for incapacity and planning for benefits. Specifically, Medicaid is what we usually help with. As an aside, you know we focus on the seniors, but obviously seniors usually have families and so we are helping them with things as well, but generally, these are the things that we are doing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the way I say the same thing that Georgianna is saying, but what I tell people that the main things that we do, the three things, three main things that we do. We do other things, but the main three are keep you out of probate court, keep you out of guardianship court and try to help you not go broke in a nursing home.
Speaker 2:Beautifully said. Yeah, yeah, those are the three big things that we do, and then it's things that other attorneys don't do, and one thing that I hear a lot is people say so what's the difference between an estate planning attorney and an elder law attorney? And my answer is you know, we do estate planning, but we also do elder law, and so a good portion of our brain is focused on older people and long term care, things like that. And always tell people in a state planning attorney will make sure that what you have goes where you want it to go at the time of death. That's, with you know trust or wills or you know payable on death, whatever, just to make sure that your stuff goes at the time of your death where you want it to go as efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2:But as elder law attorneys, how we differ is we make sure that you have something at the time of your death to pass on, because without elder law, without us jumping in and saying, hey, you've got to pay for a $7,000 a month nursing home bill, you're you need to bring people into your home to care for you and that's, you know, seven, 10, 12, $15,000 per month. That gets extremely expensive and that can devastate even decent size estates. Without elder law, you may not have anything to pass on. Our job is to make sure that you do have something to pass on and, like Blaine said earlier, our focus is to get you the care that you need without going broke. Okay, Now I think that's a yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I was thinking I tell people too, there's a state planning, that we're planning for your things, but that's a different goal, right, we're trying to get your stuff somewhere, versus thinking also, wait a minute, how do we get benefits? Like, I don't want you to do anything for an estate planning purpose, that is going to mess up getting benefits in five, 10 years. So, yeah, that's kind of keeping that in mind too, like because people come in they're like well, I've got an estate plan, well, that's great and that that's wonderful. I'm glad you did that. Do you want to also talk about benefits and how you get benefits if someone you know, if there's an accident and then someone's in long-term care? Very different goals.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So to wrap this up kind of, I know there's the mindset of people. It's like, well, I have an attorney, okay, I've worked with this attorney my entire life and so when mom needs nursing home care, I have a lawyer, so I'm sure they can handle that. How do y'all address that issue?
Speaker 3:I say that's great if you do, if your attorney can handle it, then that is wonderful. I would ask them these specific questions, ask them if they know about Medicaid, ask them if they know about some of the exceptions and the rules. I always tell people, like when we do presentations, I say, hey, you should talk to an elder law attorney, someone that has experience doing these things and experience getting people on benefits. If your attorney is that person, then fantastic, maybe I even know them, because there are not very many in our area that are actually doing these things. But great, you know, great, wonderful. That's the question.
Speaker 4:The only thing I would add to that is, yes, estate planning and guardianship planning. Lots of other attorneys can do that. But I've got to say this 90 or even higher than 90% of the clients that walk in with a set of powers of attorney, they are not. Those powers of attorney are not sufficient to allow them to do Medicaid planning if the need arises. We're just trying to set you up so that you will be in position where your agent, your family members, can help you if in the future you need long-term care, and most powers of attorney that come through our door that are prepared by other attorneys, are not going to, they're not gonna work for that purpose.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and it prevents us from doing what we need to do, and that could result in the loss of your entire estate, and I've seen it happen. I've had to push powers of attorney across the table back to someone and say, since mom can't sign new POAs, this power of attorney will not let me protect you. You're going to spend all of your money on long-term care, and that's sad, it's just so sad. And so, yeah, let me wrap this up.
Speaker 2:One thing that I have found that people appreciate is that the medical profession has accepted specialization. You go to your family doctor. You have a heart problem. That doctor is gonna say, dude, that is out of my knowledge. You know, ram, you need to go to a cardiologist. If you have kidney problems, you go to a kidney doctor. If you, you know, when we think of medicine, we think, yeah, you go to a specialist. The legal profession is getting there, but a lot of attorneys are real focused on oh yeah, I'm a lawyer, I can do just about anything and we are licensed to do anything, but you should do it very well. And so I'm just telling you listeners out there that you should go to a specialist, and that's why I went through the hassle of becoming a certified elder law attorney. I can advertise that I am a specialist in that, and Blaine and Georgiana are gonna do this sometime soon. Yes, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, they are going to become certified.
Speaker 2:I think they would pass the test. Now we just gotta find time for them to take the test. But anyway, specialization is not as common in the legal field, but it should be, and this is one of those areas where, if you don't get really good advice and you really know what you're doing, you're going to lose tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars. So we will jump into that in future episodes. We will cover that, I promise you, in detail. Again, thank you so much for listening today and please subscribe so that every time we post a new episode you'll be alerted to it. You can listen and I guarantee you that you're going to learn something pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning in to OK Senior Law Podcast. We hope today's episode has provided you with valuable insights into estate planning and elder law that resonate with your life and aspirations in Tulsa and surrounding areas. Remember, planning your estate is not just about legal documents. It's about ensuring a lasting legacy and peace of mind for you and your loved ones. For more information or to schedule a consultation with our expert attorneys Blaine Frazel, georgiana Marks or Todd Watley, visit our website at wwwokseniorlawcom. Protect your future today. Until next time, take care.