46. Budget Special with Damian Walters & Richard Hibbert

Budget Special: What This Budget Really Means for Home Improvement Business Owners

In this Budget Special, Kevin D Bannister breaks down what the latest Budget actually means for home improvement business owners. Whether you run a fitting team, a KBB showroom, a renovation firm or a wider trades business, this episode cuts through the noise and focuses on the real impact on your income, your staff and your customers.

Kevin is joined by two major industry voices: Damian Walters (BIFIS/BiS) and Richard Hibbert (KBSA). Together, they unpack rising taxes, higher workforce costs, stalled consumer confidence and the lack of targeted support for the renovation and home improvement sector.

What we cover:
• Dividend, savings and property taxes all rising by 2%
• Salary sacrifice changes increasing employer costs
• No VAT relief or incentives to stimulate renovation demand
• How consumer confidence may dip at the worst possible time
• Why small businesses feel overlooked despite being "the backbone"
• The real question: absorb new costs or raise prices

Damian warns the Budget will not reassure working people or spending households, sharing:
 "It is not good for spend and customer confidence."

Richard highlights ongoing frustration:
 "Every year they're taking a little bit more away."

Despite the challenges, both guests emphasise the resilience of independent trades and home improvement firms. These are the businesses that continue to "crack on" and keep the industry moving.

If you want a straight talking, business owner view of the Budget and what it means for your next 12 months, this episode tells you exactly where you stand.

The KBB Unstoppable Business Owner podcast is sponsored by KBN - Kitchens & Bathrooms News THE business magazine for kitchen and bathroom professionals.

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Transcript

Introduction and Initial Thoughts on the Budget

Kevin D Bannister 0:16

U-turn, U-turn, not labor. I'm talking about us. I said this time last year that we wouldn't be doing another budget. Well, I didn't say we wouldn't do another budget episode. I just said that last year was kind of a big deal, change of government. It made sense to cover the budget, to help small businesses understand where they stand and. Ultimately, I didn't expect to have to do this this year. however, some would say this budget was bigger than the last one, obviously I'll leave you to decide that, but, let's get real about it. Today's budget was full of waffle noise and the political theater, but underneath all that, it hits small business owners harder than anyone's willing to admit if you are a business owner listening to this, here's what you actually need to know, not the polished version, the real version. Your take home pay is going down. Dividend tax is up 2%. Savings, income up 2%, property income up 2%. All the places where business owners generally take their rewards are gonna be taxed harder. Your workforce is gonna get more expensive. The so-called salary sacrifice loophole. employers and high earners will now pay national insurance on certain pension contributions. More cost zero support. There's nothing in here that's gonna help you grow. The VA threshold isn't moving. There's no reliefs. There's no boost for apprenticeships. If you're trying to scale, you're gonna be doing it alone. And look, I'm hearing it everywhere today. It's worse than last year. Disposable income is down. This just feels a bit sneaky. And the big one, do we just absorb these costs or do we just have to put our prices up? This is the reality, not the press release version, the business owner version. gonna strip this whole thing back. No jargon, no spin, no political cheerleading, just the truth about what the budget really means to the people. Keep this country running. I've got Damien Waters, the chief exec from BFIs, and Richard Hibbett from the KBSA. Welcome to the show. Damien, could you just tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

Damian 2:32

Hi My name's Damien Waters I'm the Chief executive of the British Institute of Fitted Interior Specialists or bis as we're better known

Kevin D Bannister 2:40

Thank you for coming on. so what is your first reaction to the budget?

Damian 2:46

Well there's been lots of speculation I think there's two points So one um I think the inks still drying certainly following the budget It finished uh you know half an hour ago or so Um so in reality I haven't had enough time to really absorb um the full facts However of course we did get a little bit of a heads up to it because of uh the OBR leaking the document slightly earlier than perhaps it

Kevin D Bannister 3:11

Yes.

Damian 3:12

Um but that

Kevin D Bannister 3:13

Embarrassing.

Consumer Confidence and Economic Concerns

Damian 3:15

Yeah You know it is embarrassing but it doesn't change anything in reality does it let's be honest it's just a you know another government um screw up as it were But it is what it is But you know look I think there's a couple of things for me there were some real big concerns of mine um especially in relation to VAT thresholds that concerned me when these things were being rumored over the last couple of weeks And um any change to the threshold would've really affected the micro SME and the majority from a volume perspective of our stakeholders are um micro SME So from that perspective would've been a very difficult pill to swallow thankfully That hasn't happened um thankfully that there's been no changes albeit for now that for me suggest you know perhaps there is something around the corner but let's not worry about that now almost but I think that would've been disastrous for our industry on a number of levels Um I think you know if I look generally from a political point of view and we tend not to be too political really because you know my view is I don't really care who's in power as long as we get a good deal Um you know I've got no real allegiance to any party uh publicly or privately for that matter Um from my perspective I just want a good deal from my government whoever that is it does feel However that the government are going back on their manifesto promises and taxation You know they're looking to fill these holes with taxation and um you know I believe we're already overtaxed as a nation Um so any changes that affects the working person for me is a negative when as part of the manifesto of course they said that taxation wouldn't be affected it wasn't on their horizon yet in the space of a year we've seen two huge hikes which you know that's concerning Kevin if I'm being honest with you I guess it would feel that the chancellor is almost selling the brass wear from the front door when the roof's on fire So all of these things are gonna have little effects on some of the big stories that are happening out there and perhaps some of the reasons why we are in the trouble we are in as a nation I do fear for what the future looks like I mean don't get me wrong there's some good stuff You know the forecast upgraded to 1.5 for this year which is good up from a percentage in March So that's gotta be positive for us And I know the chancellor are sort of focused on that but if you fast forward what the next four years after that looks like So I just feel that's a little bit of lip sync to try and um you know try and help us feel better about some stuff And the bits that they're doing around prescriptions and stuff again I think that's just you know white noise to take away the real burning platform which is taxation But I think there's a difficult time ahead but positively to say that you know we are a resilient industry construction to an extent but certainly the RMI market a resilient sector albeit we've got a fair share of challenges we seem to be quite strong but we will see the next few weeks few months really make a difference But The real concern in all of this is the people that are driving the businesses So it's the customer and the customer's confidence in spend because ultimately the RMI model is dictated on it and of course no great changes to things like stamp duty which could have really stimulated the construction market And even the RMI market to a certain point haven't been affected So I think we just need to Sit and wait basically But there's a lot of noise out there in the press and you know a lot of that is politically driven it's not good for spend and customer confidence

Kevin D Bannister 7:10

Yeah, and I think that's one of the big things that I've kind of keep coming back to is the consumer. there's always a consumer, even if it's business to business, obviously someone is buying from someone. I felt it before the last budget where there was this sort of pause, everybody kind of waiting to see what was gonna really happen. Do you mean how's this gonna affect us? we kind of saw that again, a year down the line,

Damian 7:34

Yeah

Kevin D Bannister 7:34

In the past, people didn't pay that much attention to the budget. it happened in the background, you'd hear it on the news and that was kind of it. And I think people are so much more aware now, would you say that consumer confidence will be improved by this budget or Have we still got to wait and see where things take us?

Damian 7:55

think if you're on benefits then you'll be pretty happy with what's happened today Um I think if you are a worker whether you are a small business or a consumer that wants to buy from a small business I think you'll feel Hard done by today And I think the the rhetoric that will come from the opposition uh which has already started today following the budget of course they add a bit of a heads up to prepare on that this year round but I think that that will only push confidence downward you know and it is a shame because actually be a lot of focus which is typical you know in political circles really Um there'll be a lot of focus on political point scoring Um and you know not a lot of focus on actually you know taking perhaps some of the good points and and stimulating Consumer confidence which I think is missing. It's been missing in politics for some time There's been some big things in there as well You know even that that don't necessarily um affect our our industry but definitely will in some way shape or form But the you know the whole thing about the you know the electric vehicle tax per mile that's coming up I mean I just think you know how can you be a government That stands up and talks about sustainability and drives towards you know net zero from a carbon emission and then start taxing per mile for ev cause um you know we know what will happen Um well the two one or two things will happen Um people will either start selling or giving back their electric vehicles at the end of the lease or the end of their finance or whatever it may be that that will have an effect on the economy Uh and of course the environment Um the the price of these vehicles will plummet So depreciation will affect anybody that's involved in one of those vehicles and I think you know the the other thing if you look at it from a business point of view because a lot of businesses especially in and around London because of the you know the the sort of um the you Liz and the congestion charge relief That was afforded upon electric vehicles because you know people were told to go buy these things Remember at a premium price all of that will be undone So we've got I think we've got some real challenges I don't really know what the government are hoping to achieve from that Um when they have got a sustainability or they they've got they've got a so-called sustainability agenda um today just demonstrates that perhaps they don't really care about that and all they're looking to do is to perhaps raise as much money as they can through further stealth taxation

Government's Understanding of Business

Kevin D Bannister 10:53

Yeah, I think that, and that is one thing, like you say, from the media point of view is that their big thing is obviously looking to try and point out the stealth tax, obviously freezing income, thresholds essentially, I mean, is a stealth tax,

Damian 11:06

People in higher bracket

Challenges and Future Outlook

Kevin D Bannister 11:08

is. I suppose this leads me onto whether or not this government understand business, at the start of her speech, she talked about startups and encouraging these to the uk fast forward 20 minutes down the line, there's more dividend tax going up yes, I understand there's a lot of wealthy people that hold shares that will have dividend income. But big chunk small business are paid some form of dividends. if they change the way that happens, then you have that conversation. sometimes that they don't understand I know obviously from a political point of view, people talk about the bench not having business experience but they still have people around them that do. are they just making these decisions a point of view? I it just feels like. The government is trying to please the market by keeping our debt under control and kind of worry about anything else.

Damian 12:05

Yeah

Kevin D Bannister 12:06

I'm not saying that we should just keep borrowing money that that's not obviously sustainable, but

Damian 12:10

Hmm

Kevin D Bannister 12:10

think it's hard to understand the priorities.

Damian 12:14

Yeah I think you're dead right Kevin I think you know is a good point you make around the government trying to appease people around debt but that is at the cost of the tax paying hardworking business then that's unacceptable you know the problem you've got of course is whilst you know your billionaires can take their money and themselves elsewhere and literally transporters to tax havens to avoid paying tax your average guy or girl grafting 50 60 hours a week to make ends meet they haven't they're not afforded that luxury are they Kevin So that's the bit that really concerns me I think I would ask the government okay you might be surrounded by advisors but nobody's knocked to our door and we represent a huge number of micro SMEs here in the uk Why you know and you've got to ask I mean they know about us We are a government sanctioned organization maybe they don't care Maybe that isn't their priority and maybe the small business isn't the priority which is a start contract what they were saying not so long ago I remember the government talking about the micro SME as being the backbone of the British economy Well they've not demonstrated their value of that backbone have they certainly today Anyway

Kevin D Bannister 13:35

it was a hard pill to swallow, I think last year, but I mean, to come back and it felt a little bit like the budget was made up of lots of little things going on in loads of different places so that they could kind of go, well, there's so many areas to talk about. Well, what one do we talk about? Um, and obviously she's looked to really improve her headroom this time. Considering I come from a financial background, it just feels like the only thought process is financial as opposed to everything else that comes into play.

Damian 14:08

this

Kevin D Bannister 14:08

yeah.

Damian 14:09

was a budget of balancing the books or at least trying to and um I think all the time you have A huge gaping hole in the bottom of your bucket It doesn't matter how much fresh water you put in it you are never gonna balance And um the government you know whilst the budget isn't about necessarily what we're doing as a country around some key topics you know some real key topics at the moment including things like welfare the NHS and of course migration and so on And you know for me those areas they're key to all of this um will perhaps lessen the burden on the taxpayer to fund a lot of these incompetence really I mean there's some good stuff Listen there was some good stuff that went on in the budget today and that will be overlooked Uh you know things like the extra input into civic services including the National Health Service Well of course that benefits us all if managed in the right way which again is another question but you know other bits in there that I have to look at and just scratch my head really and wonder where small businesses go next

Kevin D Bannister 15:18

Yeah. No, I think that I, do remember watching them? But I think that was where I was as well. I was kind of like. Okay, but what's the real, at least if you go back 12 months ago, the plan was we've cleared the books, we're looking good, we're going forward. Whereas now it's kind of like I've had to come back for a little bit more in different ways. So I've sort of balanced the books and we're gonna push on. Where are we pushing on now? I think I do agree. You mean there's definitely some good things in there as well. but it's a case of, and I think you're right that those positive things will get overlooked, a lot of areas. I think it's just, I don't feel personally this is, I don't feel like they've quite solved the kind of. Uncertainty. I think as in they haven't restored that confidence for consumers to go out and buy in the way they had. it's not to say that they should have been able to do it in one year. Um, uh, I think that the issue is, is it's, we just don't really know where we're going.

Damian 16:27

No and do you know what again coming back to that whole point on um you know consumers and consumer confidence really driving industries and fueling the economy um you know which is certainly true for for our sector and you know you mentioned a point earlier as well actually Kevin about you know once upon a time nobody really paid attention to the budget You know there were two sort of things really that mattered and that was the duty on alcohol and cigarettes right That was the bit that my mom and dad always used to talk

Kevin D Bannister 16:59

Yeah.

Damian 17:00

That

Kevin D Bannister 17:00

Yeah.

Damian 17:01

Now um you know we're hitting the sort of very minute detail of the government's excel spreadsheet of balance in the books but I think it's the way in which We absorb information Now Kevin has changed massively from when one or two headlines used to dominate and then nobody spoke about it because you'll find that in the half an hour since the budget completed my social media feed has been dominated by budget related stuff My notifications on my phone have been dominated by budget You know we won't be able to blink I was in a lift in Central London earlier in Canary Wharf and there was a TV in the lift that was spewing news about the budget on it you can't get away from it So all of these things you know what I mean And here we are Absolutely we can't get away from it and I think because government are Feeling the pressure of the state of the country and because the people that are funding all of that you and me and everybody else are the ones paying for It it's gonna have an effect on we spend and how much we spend listen I guarantee you Kevin there will be people out there that will most likely push into home improvement projects for next year that won't

Kevin D Bannister 18:22

Yeah.

Damian 18:22

it is not because necessarily that it affected their pocket massively It's actually more because of the general confidence that people are lacking at the moment

Kevin D Bannister 18:31

Yeah.

Damian 18:31

sort of you know the spin that's coming from the media that's making everybody feel a bit rubbish you know really Christmas and we forget some of that nonsense And there's some good news you know But have to say based on recent years it's hard to see where the next bit of new year new news positive come from I'm not entirely sure it will if I was a betting man and I'm not a betting man and thankfully I'm not because that's been affected today as well Um you know I wouldn't put money on it put it that way

Kevin D Bannister 19:00

Definitely. And I think that's the thing. all these things trickle down to us, don't they I had read your article, on the VAT and what you were talking about with that. And I think the problem where some of these things are so big in the headlines is some. other things get left out, that should be looked at. and just, I think you summed it up nicely with scratching our head still kind of not really sure is the government after, well they will say they're after growth, but at what cost?

Damian 19:34

Not just that You know it's all very well saying you know I'd like a bit more growth up here But you know the reality is Kevin unless I've got a plan on making it happen it ain't gonna happen is it You know my hair's only gonna fall out more and more as each year passes unless I've got a real solid plant to change it Um whether that's a new wig or trip back to Turkey you know the reality of it And it does feel to me that there's a lot of talk from government about you know we want and get you know great again and all of that nonsense Well you know show me don't just tell me Yeah of course We all want what's best for the country We all want economic growth We all want us to pay less tax and earn more money We want consumers to be really confident and spend in their homes we want construction to march on and new houses to be built to meet government quotas But hell cause if you

Kevin D Bannister 20:27

Yeah.

Damian 20:27

that It probably isn't gonna happen And what you can't do and this was talking about 20 or 30 years ago when I was younger man with a fuller head of hair at MFI you know God rest its soul you can't cut your way to profitability You've gotta invest and not just in infrastructure You've gotta invest in people have got to feel good because if they don't they're not gonna go out of their way to bring about the growth that government wants And if small businesses are indeed the backbone and I believe that they are I think the government right at the time But if that is the case then Lots more investment in small businesses is absolutely necessary And go back to my point on VAT If you want to stimulate the construction and RMI model don't even consider changing VA threshold cut VAT on home improvement cut VAT on those types of projects get BRI moving again And there's been lots of lobbying on that topic but it's a speculation to accumulate I'm not entirely sure especially after today's budget that government good enough to make those big bold decisions haven't managed to do it to date and today's budget would suggest that they're not any closer to doing so either

Kevin D Bannister 21:48

Yeah, and I would agree with that. I think, um, from a growth point of view, you need to apply. But there's bold and it is investing. Um, and when we saw this after COVID when they wanted people to get out into the hospitality, they introduced new rates for VAT, things like that. do you mean just from a consumer confidence point of view? Dropping rates, whether that's completely to zero for a short period of time or just a lower rate of sort of 5%, something like that. you are telling the country that you want people to take advantage of this. I was expecting some tax raises I was hoping that there would be some targeted. tax policies reliefs in a sense,

Damian 22:31

Yeah

Kevin D Bannister 22:32

stimulate certain areas. I mean, whether that was this industry or, or other industries I think at the moment they're still in kind of damage control, uh, sort of territory, um,

Damian 22:43

capable of it giving They they have made some cuts you know to the hospitality and leisure industries So they clearly recognize that they are industries that are struggling but I don't think they're struggling I mean they may certainly be uh and retail industry They may very be well be sort of up and front uh in terms of our attention because they're sitting in high streets um up and down the country now So there's a very visible decline But I don't think they're any in any more decline or any more of a state than the RMI market or or where it can potentially be if they don't get things right Um And and you know we we may not be as obvious but we are no less important and no less of a contributor to the economy So you know I think they do have the capability to do it but I you know I just don't think there's a a real plan I I you know I don't I don't think Rachel's got it wrong is what I think

Kevin D Bannister 23:42

Yep. I would agree.

Damian 23:43

Yeah

Kevin D Bannister 23:44

and this isn't even from a political point of view and the same as what you've said, I just don't think they've got the priorities and the kind of plan, like you say, for example, the next budget in 12 months time? At present, I will expect it to be the same as this budget. Just a scramble, to try and make things balance as opposed to invest.

Damian 24:06

Uh and the only thing that I could see changing is if there's a new government you know and that perhaps will be the thing that bucks that trend You know and again don't get me wrong you know the challenges of a new government there there'll be no magic pills We we've still got

Kevin D Bannister 24:19

yeah.

Damian 24:19

in this country from a number of um perspectives And um you know we are clearly spending more than we can afford Somebody needs to pay for that Um and you know it would appear that labor's only plan to recover that is to tax the people that are earning it And you know I can kind of understand Now that's easy pickings for government but there are so many areas of waste in this country where we're spewing ridiculous amounts of money that if they plug one or two of those holes You know perhaps the good honest hardworking of this country wouldn't be hit in the pocket as they have done today

Kevin D Bannister 25:02

Definitely. I suppose one last question then, from what we talk about, I think I know the answer, but do you think that they broke their manifesto promise with the kind of.

Damian 25:12

Evidently they did there's no question about it It's not even an opinion it's a fact Um I do believe that they have and you know I think their response to that will be well you know we continuously and dynamically The state of the country and we make decisions based on what we are presented But you know I can't see what's changed massively since they joined they followed a government that had come out of a pandemic and a global crisis They were surely in a good position to be able to make some very difficult decisions that wouldn't necessarily be entirely popular but would actually safeguard the worker and that's surprising from labor you know labor apparently the worker's party right I mean going back many many years my dad was staunch labor because he was a worker you know and he wouldn't vote for those you know I won't say what he Called them but those blue lot

Kevin D Bannister 26:09

Yes.

Damian 26:10

because they weren't talking the same language and You would therefore expect some of those very basic principles to eek through to today But it doesn't seem that they have I think if anything uh and again the leader of the opposition Uh one of the last things I saw before I turned the tell you off here Kevin was that not the party of the worker but perhaps the party of those that are living it on state and That probably is the case And don't get me wrong I think we have an absolute responsibility fiscally and ethically to look after those people who need looking after Um but I don't think that that's a blank check for everyone I think at the moment it is and that comes at a cost and that cost is being born by a taxpayer And that taxpayer is my member and me and you and all of those people in here that work for me So of course I'm gonna be rooting for them and fighting for their corner that's my job

Kevin D Bannister 27:09

Well, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. um, it's great to obviously just hear views from other people, but also just. From the industry. I think it's to help these business owners understand where they stand. Unfortunately, it's a little bit of a scratching of the head at the moment. Um, but I think, like you say, there's more detail to come. Uh, obviously the documents they provide are very large. Um, and we will see what's in the small print, um, to, see if, I suppose what they say backs up as well.

Damian 27:40

Sure

Kevin D Bannister 27:41

so

Damian 27:41

The next

Kevin D Bannister 27:41

thank you.

Damian 27:42

few weeks will be quite telling but we'll start to see that information leak out and um and see how it affects us really But you know if you're working and you're in the bracket of paying tax if you're saving you you've been affected today and not in a good way

Kevin D Bannister 27:58

Thank you very much. Um, and for, yeah, all your members. Um, good luck.

Interview with Richard Hibbett

Damian 28:04

we'll continue to look after em Kevin We'll continue to represent them We'll continue to help them save in other areas Our focus is on making these businesses stronger Um and I am and always have been Kevin a believer Strength in numbers So stick together and we've got half a chance Um and you know that's just nature Right

Kevin D Bannister 28:30

Definitely,

Damian 28:31

Super

Kevin D Bannister 28:31

Well, thank you very much.

Damian 28:33

pleasure Thank you

28:34

Don't go anywhere. Next up, we've got Richard Hibbett Richard, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Richard's Reaction to the Budget

Richard Hibbert 28:39

Hey, I'm, I'm Richard from KSO in Sudbury and the KBSA national chair, so retail business in Sudbury and National chair of the KBSA.

Kevin D Bannister 28:48

Okay. That's great. So what is your first reaction to the budget?

Small Business Struggles and Government Policies

Richard Hibbert 28:56

I, I think it's the same as, as, as probably all, all budgets. There's, um, there's a give it in one hand, take it in another. Um, I do get a little bit frustrated that small businesses don't really get the, the real. Pride of the nation that they deserve. You know, we give so much already and they're, every year they're taking a little bit more away. I don't, I don't think there's enough, probably for small businesses at the moment. Um, it's probably not as bad as I thought it might be. But, you know, with, with the way small businesses work and the way, um, you know, we can, we can really leverage things for the government with, with. The tax we pay. And, and that side of things, um, supporting us is, is always the best option, I believe. But, um, I think they could have done more for sure for, uh, small businesses.

Kevin D Bannister 29:55

Definitely. I think one thing,

Richard Hibbert 29:57

I.

Kevin D Bannister 29:58

that kind of comes up with this as well is whether do, do you think the government understands business?

Richard Hibbert 30:10

I think they understand business. I'm not sure they care. I think that's the, you know, that I think too many people look at, you know, look at my business. Yeah. I'm. I guess over the years I've been between a million, a million and a half turnover. It is a, it's a, if you look at it against Amazon, I'm a, you know, a little.in the sand. Um. But when you collectively add the small businesses together, we pay far more. You know, we employ people. We, you, we occupy buildings. We put back to the local community. We support the local community in, in employment, and we, and we pay a lot of tax, whether that's in PAYE, national insurance, you know, and whatever taxes we, we generally don't qualify for a lot of the. Grants and, and, um, r and d developments and that side of it to get, um, any of the, any of that side. And it's difficult for us to, um, for apprenticeships often, so we, we tend to do our own recruiting and, and training. So I think we get a lot of the burden with it out, a lot of the credit and, um, it hasn't been horrendous. The budget. There's, there's been little, little gains, but you know, there's been little more chips offered. That you can't see. Little, little things like not raising the allowances that over time are gonna gonna just mean that everyone's paying a bit more tax. Um, it's kind of, I hate the way it's all a bit sneaky.

Kevin D Bannister 31:49

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 31:50

and I just wish they'd, they'd come out and realize how good small businesses are and how much the country needs small businesses in, in the local community. And. Further afield and, and at government level it's, it, it just needs them to, to realize it. And I know I, I dunno how I quite feel about, um, the announcement a couple of weeks ago when, um, another party came out and was very pro small business and that, you know, I think they kind of. I think they all get it, but that, that's where they've put their sand, their, you know, their, um, their line in the sand is that, that I think maybe this time labor have gone, let's support people on benefits with kids and that side of it, we'll get a good buy in that way. The conservative generally support the richer community maybe. And I think, um, the reform groups are kind of going. Let's go for the, the small business vote. Uh, and so it is frustrating. You kind of want all of them to work together for the right of the country, but it just does seem it's a bit flippant at times and, um, playing with people's lives a bit too much maybe.

Kevin D Bannister 33:04

Yeah, I think one of the things was around as well. It kind of feels a little bit like. Which they're so focused on balancing the books that it's kind of, we balance the books, then we worry about what, what, what else it affects. Um.

Richard Hibbert 33:19

Yeah. Yeah,

Kevin D Bannister 33:20

I obviously, I was saying today I come from a financial background, so obviously it's important to balance the books, but at

Richard Hibbert 33:28

yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 33:28

time, you have to invest to, like,

Richard Hibbert 33:30

Hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 33:31

if they've got to invest in somewhere and that's either putting kind of money into places or it's through incentives. I mean like reliefs in different areas or, or something like that. and it just kind of feels a little bit like. The focus is like there's all, you know, there's all the, there's all these different things going on in this budget and,

Richard Hibbert 33:54

Mm-hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 33:54

wrong, there always is, there's always loads of different

Richard Hibbert 33:56

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 33:57

but it kind of feels like there's loads of things that are big enough to talk about that then distract you from other things that are going

Richard Hibbert 34:04

Oh yeah. It's always the case, isn't it? That's, that's what frustrates you the most. It's, it's kind of like,

Kevin D Bannister 34:10

Look over

Richard Hibbert 34:11

uh,

Kevin D Bannister 34:11

over

Richard Hibbert 34:11

making a noise over there. Yeah. So you're not seeing that bit and Yeah, it, I mean, it's, I don't think you are ever gonna make everyone happy. It's, you know, that's not what. Life is, it's just with, with small businesses, it's, it's the fact that over the last few years it's anything they can benefit from, whether that's dividend payments, which don't get me wrong, are, are beneficial to, to business owners like myself. We still pay tax because it's still, the corporation tax is still taken into account before that comes out, so you're taxed on it anyway. So whichever way they wanna look at it, you're taxed on it. There's, there's national insurance, there's all sorts of things. But by now closing that and adding another 2% to that, it, it's just it. Well, let's not raise, you know, corporation tax. We'll hit'em on this way that, you know, it's gonna hit'em as hard. But we've kind of snuck it through and on other things and

Kevin D Bannister 35:12

Well, and

Richard Hibbert 35:12

yeah. I,

Kevin D Bannister 35:13

part of the reason why I say do they understand business as well? Because. think there's the consensus that obviously you've got investors out there that obviously get paid dividends, so

Richard Hibbert 35:24

hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 35:25

I get the, the basis of wanting to maybe tax them a bit more, but it's kind of like at the same time they forget that. There's all these small business owners out there that get paid in a similar way, and like you

Richard Hibbert 35:38

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 35:38

pay, um, you pay your corporation tax and then you pay your personal tax on like, on top of that,

Richard Hibbert 35:45

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 35:46

afterwards, so it's not like you only pay that sort of investment tax, um, at

Richard Hibbert 35:52

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 35:52

And, and it is not, I remember when there was no, there was no dividend tax obviously. S up, um, in a different way, but there wasn't that extra tax. So, and we've gone from sort of like being a few percent to kind of seven point half and then you, when now we're, so we're in the double digits now. Um, and that's on top

Richard Hibbert 36:15

And the allowance is gone.

Kevin D Bannister 36:17

Yeah. And on

Richard Hibbert 36:18

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 36:19

corporation tax as well. So.

Final Thoughts and Moving Forward

Richard Hibbert 36:21

Which is bonkers. There, there needs to be, there definitely needs to be a, a small business like set relief on that because ultimately taking a little bit off us guys, it, it just stagnates us with the employment, with investment on anything like that. Um, and the way it's done. Doesn't help with dividends and different things. You can, you can ultimately end up losing money and still paying corporation tax, whichever way you, you wanna, um, you wanna label it. But, um, yeah, I, I just wish it was a bit more honest and they came up and said what we're gonna do is we need to raise this amount of money and why we're gonna do it is we're gonna take a little bit off small businesses here and we're gonna do that. And it would be, I think they'd get more buy-in as well because ultimately they've gone, we're gonna put 2% on this, but we are holding corporation tax. Uh, and we're gonna hold the thresholds and everyone's like, oh, they haven't put tax up, but, you know, ultimately over the next few years, taxes going up.

Kevin D Bannister 37:24

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 37:25

Um, so I just wish there was a, there needs to be honesty and there needs to be trust within the government these days. And I think, I think the, the general public and business owners have lost the trust of, to the point where I'm thinking, well, do we want any of them in, you know, it's, um,

Kevin D Bannister 37:41

Yeah. And I completely

Richard Hibbert 37:43

it's.

Kevin D Bannister 37:44

I, I think, um, one thing that me and Damon were talking was that you kind of feel like you're scratching your head a little bit after, after this one.

Richard Hibbert 37:53

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 37:53

the la the last budget and, and I, done a u-turn. I, I wasn't planning on doing this episode. Um, this is somewhat last minute just because of how. Big, like la the last budget was sort of placed on a basis that this is a one, a one-off. We need

Richard Hibbert 38:12

Mm.

Kevin D Bannister 38:12

cash to fill some

Richard Hibbert 38:14

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 38:14

And then we're on a level playing field. Um, and then now it's kind of, obviously we have the kind of, yeah, one minute we're gonna be doing, um, uh, income tax and all this, and then it's like, oh no, we're not doing that anymore. And I think it just feels a bit chaotic at the moment. Um, and it.

Richard Hibbert 38:32

I always feel that they, they say certain things to sort of. See how much people shout and then they go, all right, I better not put that through. You know, like, so it seems a bit silly. It's, it is, it just needs to be done for the right reasons and in the right way. And then with honesty on the flip side, US independence and small businesses, how do, how do I put it in the best way? We do get on with it. Um, we do carry on, we do find other ways and, and other means and, and push on with it. I guess'cause we have to, we are reliant on, you know, my business is relying on me and if I go, well,

Kevin D Bannister 39:13

Yeah.

Consumer Confidence and Market Sentiment

Richard Hibbert 39:13

what's the point? I've got two more percent. You know, it isn't gonna happen. If I think about it logically and I look at my, my bottom end and I get the staff together and I, you know, change the displays and get, invest in the business still, then we're gonna grow and we're gonna carry on and we're gonna. Pay more tax probably and, and whatever else. But that is the beauty of independence is we do crack on and, um, we work hard. We work hard for the country in the day.

Kevin D Bannister 39:45

Do you think that? my hope I suppose was that although there were gonna be some hard choices, obviously the hope is that they would look to, at least with still some sort of confidence in the consumer market. And I, kind of feel. Personally that they haven't, um, more through a directional. as much as we can say, let's grow, let's grow. what, what, what's the plan on how we grow?

Richard Hibbert 40:11

Yeah.

British Resilience in Tough Times

Kevin D Bannister 40:11

I think at the moment it just. dunno, from your point of view, does it, does it, do you think that this because I think a lot of people were on pause, but No, because of how, how much was being leaked and how much was going on with this, A lot of people have just held back. Um, do you

Richard Hibbert 40:27

Yeah,

Kevin D Bannister 40:28

any confidence in the consumer market? Well, as in with consumers like to, to

Richard Hibbert 40:35

I mean, I mean with. With it. The beauty of English people or British people is that we do get on and we don't wallow in self-pity too much.

Kevin D Bannister 40:47

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 40:48

I mean, I've seen other countries that hit recession and stone recession for, for feels like years, but the British probably get to a stage and when you know I'm gonna do that kitchen,'cause you know, I've had enough of looking at this kitchen and we do crack on and we do sort of stiff up a lip, whatever it is, and, and crack on. Things like this, do put that sort little, or let's just wait until then. And I think the worst is the timing is so crap that it's the end of November and then people go, especially on big purchases,

Kevin D Bannister 41:23

Yep.

Richard Hibbert 41:23

go, well, let's wait. Let's just wait until let's get Christmas. We can spend a bit of time looking at it over Christmas. So for businesses, we've probably got two months of slow.

Kevin D Bannister 41:32

Yep.

Richard Hibbert 41:33

Um, I mean, for us it hasn't been too bad, and I'm hearing that other people, it's not been too bad at the moment and we've had some people coming back who haven't gone ahead for the last couple of years coming back. So there's positives out there, but it definitely gives a full, you know, a red light, just, just, or an amber light. Let's just hold, um, until this, and, and na and naturally, after this point, people sort of understand a bit more, you know, two, an uber rich, maybe it's two and a half, seven and a half thousand, they're gonna have to pay a year. Maybe that won't make a difference with their decisions. And if they're Uber, uber rich, they've probably got someone looking after their tax anyway to stop and paying taxes and things like that. But it's normally a DR line in the sand, but coming so close to Christmas then just right, we can't really ramp up at the moment, which is a bit of a pain. Um. People. Then at the same time, people then get into Christmas, forget, and it comes to April when, when most of it does kick in. So gi I dunno if it's cleverly done, so it must sit by Christmas and you have a few drinks and forget and, and then April comes and you go, oh, what's happening now? Um, but yeah, I, I think consumers do crack on businesses, do crack on especially new, uh, our small businesses. We adapt. We crack on and I think, um,

Kevin D Bannister 43:00

Yeah,

Richard Hibbert 43:01

I'm hopefully looking forward to a good 26

Kevin D Bannister 43:03

Yeah, I totally agree that like as a, as a country we do, we do, don't we? We do. Just get on with it. good or bad,

Richard Hibbert 43:12

mm.

Kevin D Bannister 43:13

We are that, and I, and I agree, there are countries out there that do wallow, um, just stay in recession like for a long time. Um,

Richard Hibbert 43:23

Yeah, I think it's the people though. I, I, I generally don't think it's the government.

Kevin D Bannister 43:27

yeah.

Impact of VAT on Home Improvement Industry

Richard Hibbert 43:27

don't think the government could, you know, fight us out of a paper bag that it literally is the people, I mean, the, uh, you know, you can be proud of your country, I think proud of the population in general. It is just, you know, they, they do crack on, um. It is a lovely thing when it, you know, when you are all a bit tough together, that you do just,

Kevin D Bannister 43:52

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 43:53

you do crack on.

Kevin D Bannister 43:55

Do you think that one thing that Damien mentioned was, uh, something that he's been talking about is the VAT element,

Richard Hibbert 44:01

Mm-hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 44:01

essentially in the home improvement industry. And you mean doing something with, obviously there was talk that it could get heightened essentially, um, before the budget. Obviously that

Richard Hibbert 44:12

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 44:13

Um,

Richard Hibbert 44:14

It was talk of 50,000 I think, wasn't it? Bringing it down to

Kevin D Bannister 44:17

yeah. Bringing, yeah, bringing the sort of thresholds down, which

Richard Hibbert 44:20

threshold.

Government Incentives and Economic Growth

Kevin D Bannister 44:21

It brings micro businesses into, into a whole new realm of compliance for one, but also, um, jumping even from a consumer point of view, the cost is more to them and obviously it just trickles all the way through, one of the things we were talking about was that if the government had a. plan in terms of how they're gonna get this growth. They could be looking at incentives in sort of this industry, but other industries as well. And actually looking at things to, you know, whether that's a reducing of VAT or something. for us, a bit like what they did in COVID, so with the restaurants and things,

Richard Hibbert 44:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 45:00

they reduced it because obviously they wanted people to go out and spend some money in these places. And I think that's the thing that. I think was missing out the budget really was that where are the incentives for businesses to do better and,

Richard Hibbert 45:16

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 45:16

and to get this growth. Um, it's kind of, kind of hoping that there's growth by the end of the year. do you think these sort of things would help the industry?

Richard Hibbert 45:26

Yeah, I mean when they dropped it years and years ago, we did get sort of that influx and then we got an influx before they raised it. Um, and then it sort of carried on as normal. So you definitely get some influx to a degree.'cause everyone wants to make that saving, don't they? Especially if it's a big purchase. One thing I find a bit I struggle with a little bit is like, what, what necessarily is the difference between, I know there's some industries doing really well, um, or some businesses within industries doing really well and, and not, and sometimes it's luck, you know, sometimes it's judgment, sometimes it's risk. It, you know, there's lots of different ways. But the, the hospitality thing, I, I struggled to see the difference between, you know. Our members of the KBSA kitchen retailers, they're employing people. You know, they're, they've got, they're buying in lots of product there, some are manufacturing. They've got lots to, to get through in terms of work and, and, and cycles to p, you know, customer service and all that. And I often find that, you know, it is a, it's, it is probably unfair on who's supported and who gets the most out of it and things like that, which is difficult. Um, but I, I definitely think they needed to encourage some spending. Um, and it's funny that even a small percentage is a, is normally'cause you, you know, what pot you, we do this with staff. It's like. If we do a million pound in turnover, but our margin is 32% and then we do 1.5 million, but we're making 20%, you know, you, you know, it is that way up and, and sometimes even, even if they've dropped it back to the 17 point half percent, because what they've done now is obviously all my growing up was 17.5%. It went down and then they put it up even further. So it was like a few people benefited for a little while, but then they threw it out again. And now it's normal for 20%. But actually the most of my life's been 17.5%. And, um, that two and a half percent, if we can get that growth, it's gonna bring more money in still. Um, but it's also gonna, even if it's. So loosely helping people in a small way, it just gets that, that feeling of, oh, let's go. And especially if they think it's temporary.

Kevin D Bannister 48:02

Uh, definitely. I think that's the thing, Germany, even if it was a case of right over the next three years or two, well, even if they did it as a year and then extended it a bit

Richard Hibbert 48:11

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 48:12

was stunt duty. They did a similar thing with that. Um, and it's, I just, I think that was the bit that I, I expected some, some grabs from tap,

Richard Hibbert 48:23

Yeah, I did.

Kevin D Bannister 48:24

but I thought there was gonna be a little bit more kind of Um. Focus, I suppose to in, in something like that a bit, kind of a bit, just something, a bit out of the box to kind of go,

Richard Hibbert 48:38

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 48:38

we are, this is, you know, we are doing this to grow the economy, whereas there's not much in the budget. I can go, well, I mean, yeah, that helps like different process of people and it helps different people in different ways, I can't see how in a year's time growth is gonna be any different. Um.

Richard Hibbert 48:57

No.

Kevin D Bannister 48:57

Obviously

Richard Hibbert 48:58

And it and

Kevin D Bannister 48:58

revised it down already.

Richard Hibbert 49:00

yeah, and it, and it is that. Again, I'll go back to trust. It's like everyone get an electric vehicle, everyone do this, everyone do that. And then they go, right, we're putting mileage charge on now'cause we're not getting enough tax on thing. Anything. Yeah. You've just completely like got, yes, it's been good for some businesses who can do the salary sacrifice and, and all of that. But you, you're kind of, um,

Kevin D Bannister 49:25

the whole, and I think the.

Richard Hibbert 49:26

just

Kevin D Bannister 49:27

They

Richard Hibbert 49:28

laughing on, you know.

Kevin D Bannister 49:29

yeah, these policies were put in to encourage people to buy these things, so.

Challenges for Small Businesses

Richard Hibbert 49:35

Yeah, it's almost like in you imagine me selling kitchens really cheap.'cause I know in three years they're gonna tax the kitchens and it's come to the business owner, they'll be like, you know, like, but you know, it is just that side of it that really grates on me. Um, and they normally do throw a few incentives out there just to go, oh look, we're gonna drop. I know they've, I know duty on them. On, uh, fuel is, is still lowered at the moment, but it's still high. You know, it's still a, you know, and, and, and it's high in different areas. So, you know, if I drive to Ipwich, I could say five per liter anyway, which is bonkers. So, you know, it's practically, it's, it's, it's different for other country, but. I, I think we're still, especially, I've been, I guess I've been in business 20 years now and they've, they've never really done anything that's really helped me, and I'm still here,

Kevin D Bannister 50:33

No,

Richard Hibbert 50:34

so.

Kevin D Bannister 50:35

Yeah. want everything to sound, I suppose so negative, but I think you are right in that. everybody in business has generally been going, they're starting out, been in business for a while, there's good times, there's bad times. Um, that is the way things are. But at the same time, I I, I'm the same as you. going through COVID. They, obviously there was protections in place for employees and things like that. The business owner didn't really, you know, there was elements for self-employed, but the, the average business owner didn't really get much. Um, there wasn't really much there. And then we come out of COVID, We've put corporation tax up, we've put this up, we've put that up, put employment tax, uh, like NI

Richard Hibbert 51:21

Most had a loan

Kevin D Bannister 51:22

and

Richard Hibbert 51:23

to pay back.

Kevin D Bannister 51:23

Yep. Loan as well. And then, and then to then I, I, the, the dividend part was a shock. I did not

Richard Hibbert 51:30

Mm-hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 51:31

Um, and, just kind of, it is a little bit like, well, what, what else, what else can you do?

Richard Hibbert 51:37

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 51:38

stop as well. Um, I, I mean, at the same time, coming outta COVID, we were always gonna have to pay a load of money back that it was always gonna happen.

Political Promises and Long-Term Planning

Richard Hibbert 51:49

And yeah, and I don't, I don't think, I know there's been lots come out about the government, but I, I think that was one of the hardest things that anyone could have faced. Um, and trying to keep businesses, you know, ultimately they kept a lot of businesses in business and a lot of people paid through the furlough. Um, and we, yeah, we were always gonna have to pay that back. What annoys me is sort of labor using it as look how, look how much the deficit is, but kind of take that year out.'cause I mean, how long in total were we closed? Nearly half a year. Eight months I think. I think we were closed that year. So take that out.

Kevin D Bannister 52:33

Yeah,

Richard Hibbert 52:33

It is, um, it's a different, to, to, today would've been a different, we'd have been at a different place and today would've been a different story, you know?

Kevin D Bannister 52:43

definitely. Definitely. So I suppose on that then, the, one of the questions that I asked today was do you think that they broke a manifesto promise with this budget?

Richard Hibbert 52:55

yeah, to a degree. I mean, uh. I kind of, I struggle to ever listen to their, their manifestos because I know they're gonna break'em. You know, they're, or they're not gonna be in long enough to keep'em, then someone else is gonna change'em. So it's like, this is the silly thing. It's when labor stand up and go, we are gonna do this, and then we chuck'em out and conservative come in and go, yeah, we don't like that. We get, we are doing this. And I think that that's one of the things with, with, um, politics that. Greats on me the most is it doesn't allow for long-term growth when you've got people fighting to be at the top fighting each other the whole time. I mean, COVID was the only time we probably stuck together and, and backed each other, and then afterwards we back stabbed because now, you know, we had to stick to do it. But I think there needs to be a lot longer term planning

Kevin D Bannister 53:49

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 53:49

place because if, if labor, if something happens and there's an election. Early, mid next year, then all of this is gonna be, it doesn't matter what's happening with this up until 2030 because they're gonna change it

Kevin D Bannister 54:04

Yep.

Richard Hibbert 54:05

and depending on what they wanna do. And obviously if, if reform come in, it's gonna massively change

Kevin D Bannister 54:10

Yeah,

Richard Hibbert 54:10

and that, that's scary in a lot of ways. It might be good, it might be not.

Kevin D Bannister 54:16

yeah. No,

Richard Hibbert 54:16

Um,

Kevin D Bannister 54:17

I think we need to. You know, we need a coherent plan, I

Richard Hibbert 54:23

yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 54:24

that, and,

Richard Hibbert 54:24

Oh yeah,

Kevin D Bannister 54:25

and, but the, and the problem, like you say, is between all the parties, obviously it's, uh, it makes sense is it's all at point scoring. Um, do I, it is frustrating sitting there when you watch the watch our budget, all the kind of the jibs and all that, all that kind of stuff. And I like just get on with the like. importance, I

Richard Hibbert 54:48

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 54:49

part of it, but I mean, from the average person that, I mean, they just wanna know what's gonna affect them and what they need to do. I think, I suppose it's, you mean where will we be next year? Um, I suppose will we be in the same position? Because I, I, I don't think there was anything in the budget that kind of really alluded to. A way forward, um,

Richard Hibbert 55:17

No, but I think we've, I think people have had enough of, I think almost the budget in Christmas has come for everyone to draw. Line under what's happened.'cause the last year to 18 months for a lot of people have been pretty average and tough. Um, probably the budget and Christmas will come and people will go, we need to move on. You know, we can't be negative anymore. And that, and that's, you know what I say with the British government, it, it's a British government. British people. Is we do get to a stage, I think year, 18 months is probably long enough for us to be in this situation that now enough people will want to crack on. Um, and that can only be good. I'm, I'm, I'm fairly positive about next year, um.

Kevin D Bannister 56:04

and that, and that's the thing I, I, I am as well, and I think I just, you just want what, as a business owner, um, you just wanna know that, you know, the playing field is, you know, a reasonably set. There's always gonna be ups and downs and opportunities and things that are gonna trip us up, but. we don't wanna have this thing every year, right?

Tax Fairness and Corporate Responsibility

Richard Hibbert 56:26

No, and I, I do, I do think other countries support their country and their businesses maybe more, and the British people do support. Wider businesses, the bigger businesses, you know, Starbucks coming in, Amazons, all of these that come in, they make enough money not to, if they're taxed properly, they're still making enough money to not go, let's leave the UK market because you know, at what Amazon make on the UK market is just bonkers. And what, as a business owner and a British person, what I'd be saying is. If you're in Britain, you are under British rule and you pay your tax for everything and you're under that, there's no hood winking and you know the double Irish and there's no transferring money to, if it's been, if the turnover's in this country and the expenditures are a bit like an audited account, no, sorry, you're not paying Amazon America license fee. You know, that's not being counted. There's your tax, then you can pay your license fee a bit like a dividend,

Kevin D Bannister 57:44

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 57:44

know, bang. There you go. That's the, that's the law. And you are the same as as KSL kitchens, KBSA, you know, whoever it is, you are the same and you're gonna be treated the same, and you're gonna pay your tax based on what you, what you earned. And, and that's, that's probably the biggest thing anyone can do.

Kevin D Bannister 58:05

Well, and I think

Richard Hibbert 58:06

Um.

Kevin D Bannister 58:07

that you are, you are completely right because you take something like that of the, of these big companies that are, that you mean essentially can essentially shift their profits, uh, overseas. that would cover any whole that that's even being spoke

Richard Hibbert 58:25

Massively.

Kevin D Bannister 58:25

instead.

Richard Hibbert 58:26

how many, um, as a, as an accounts person, how many businesses do you see that are turning over a hundred million plus. But always shown a loss, but there's lots of people within it earning

Kevin D Bannister 58:43

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 58:43

staggering amounts of money.

Kevin D Bannister 58:45

Yeah.

Richard Hibbert 58:46

ultimately, if I had a business, um, and comparable, if I'm turning over one, one and a half million, if I'm losing oh, what? 150,000 every year, I'm not gonna be here very soon. So, you know, you know, some of the appliance brand, not appliance brands, but appliance sales companies that are constantly losing tens of millions of pounds on hundreds of millions of pounds. It doesn't, it doesn't add up, does it? So it's like, it just needs to be that fair and, and like, like they're doing now, I guess they're taking a bit more off, off people with a higher rate of house. I'm not so sure on that because they've, you know, they've earned it and they've paid their stamp duty and everything else, and they're paying the tax and, and whatever else. But where it's a, where it's an unfair playing field, it needs to be addressed and especially when we're, we're giving back, allowing our wealth to be, you know, spent in the UK and taken elsewhere. And that, that's really gotta stop.

Kevin D Bannister 59:54

Definitely. I completely agree. And yeah, I, with the, like you say, with the extra charges on, on the wealthier homes, but the thing that I suppose find bizarre about those, some of those policies is, is they don't bring in a huge amount of money. They're more, therefore headline like,

Richard Hibbert 1:00:13

Hmm.

Kevin D Bannister 1:00:13

we, we are taking money from the rich. Um, and you mean I, I think there's an element. do you mean from their point of view they will say, well, I pay my council tax like as anyone

Richard Hibbert 1:00:25

Well adjust the council tax. And why? Why? Yeah. They, they don't wanna do that.'cause they don't want the local councils to have it. So it's just, it's just, and the mad thing is local councils now are not taking on new developments and things like that. So my house, I pay full council tax. And it's, I'm at the bottom of the road where for a mile they're all paying counter tax and they all get the streetlights done, the street, looked after the street's clean, everything like that. And a developer's added another 17 to 20 houses on where I've moved into. And they won't take that on. So every house down there have to pay any 500 a year. So basically I'm paying. The council tax, we're not getting that all that benefit and then having to pay it again. You know, it's not a tax, but it's, it is another tax because you're not taking on the the houses. So in theory, I'm paying council tax, but you won't take me on to what, you know, I'm paying it for the police and all that. But

Kevin D Bannister 1:01:24

Yeah.

Concluding Thoughts and Moving Forward

Richard Hibbert 1:01:24

there's just so many, so many stupid things in that need. Just if a business owner, business, small business owners went into the government tomorrow, um, there'd be positive changes. That's for sure.

Kevin D Bannister 1:01:37

Definitely.

Richard Hibbert 1:01:38

Sensible, sensible thought and planning.

Kevin D Bannister 1:01:41

Yeah. Alright, well we'll leave it there I think. I think we've covered a lot. I think. Thank you for coming on. Um.

Richard Hibbert 1:01:49

No worries.

Kevin D Bannister 1:01:50

It's great to have you back. Like I said, I didn't expect to be doing this episode. It was kind of a last minute one, and, I think it's, I think it's important that people understand where things are. Um, but I, and I, I do think, I, I do like the phrase of, and anyway, we, we just crack on. Um,

Richard Hibbert 1:02:08

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 1:02:08

we do. So I think,

Richard Hibbert 1:02:10

Yeah.

Kevin D Bannister 1:02:11

I think we're, we're ending on that, um, that we all just need to crack on into the new year.

Richard Hibbert 1:02:18

Well, small businesses will sort the country out again.

Kevin D Bannister 1:02:24

If you're still with us right to this very end, I'd like to thank you for that. obviously this is a much longer episode than normal, um, but I really appreciate you joining us. Um, and it also shows us where some of these points are for us as business owners and where we want to spend some time, uh, to think, reflect, and improve for the new year. So thank you again. Um, if you need any help, do not hesitate to reach out. Um, but I'm Kevin d Banister and you've been listening to the KBB Unstoppable Business Owner Podcast.