Actionable Empathy: How to Create Impactful Work Environments feat. Gill Brabner

In this episode of *Taking Back Monday*, Alyssa Nolte sits down with Gill Brabner, expert in workplace empathy and founder of Resound Training, to explore the transformative power of compassion in the workplace. Gill shares her ECA model—Empathy, Care, Action—and its role in improving conversations, preventing conflicts, and fostering engaged, high-performing teams. They discuss the connection between employee satisfaction, customer loyalty, and the bottom line, while offering practical advice for leaders looking to create meaningful change. Tune in to discover how to build trust, motivate teams, and inspire action for a thriving workplace culture.

Key Takeaways:

1. Empathy, Care, Action (ECA) Drives Results: Effective workplace empathy requires not only understanding and care but also action. Taking meaningful steps based on feedback builds trust, enhances relationships, and creates a motivated and engaged workforce.  
2. Employee Satisfaction Fuels Customer Loyalty: There is a strong correlation between happy employees and happy customers. Investing in employee well-being and psychological safety leads to better customer experiences and, ultimately, better business outcomes.  
3. Compassion Is a Strategic Advantage: Compassionate leadership fosters a culture of trust and collaboration, which improves team performance, strengthens brand perception, and supports long-term profitability.

Key Moments:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:14 Understanding Empathy at Work
02:28 The ECA Model: Empathy, Care, Action
06:35 Importance of Action in Empathy
08:25 Customer Feedback and Business Success
13:14 Challenges and Benefits of Compassionate Leadership
19:22 Inspiration and Final Thoughts

It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.

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Transcript

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome back to taking back Monday I am so excited that you decided to say goodbye to the Sunday scaries and hello to the future of meaningful work And I'm even more excited to introduce you to my new friend Jill Jill. Welcome to the podcast

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 0:11

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 0:15

So I was looking at your, your bio and your expertise in your background, trying to prepare for this conversation. And one thing that really struck me is that you are an expert at empathy at work. What does that even mean? What does it mean to have empathy at work?

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 0:29

Oh, that's such a great question. Well, um, we specialize in improving conversations within, within organizations and we do that through our Forum Theatre Workshops, which is where I have a team of professional actors and we create short dramas about workplace, uh, stories. They're real stories, real conversations, and our delegates who are our audience, um, they can, uh, interview the characters to find out more information. Um, in terms of the background and then they can redirect the scenario. So we, we co create the solution to the problem that plays out in our, in our short dramas. Um, and our audiences absolutely love it. It's a lot of fun, but more importantly, it's just a great way to learn. Because they are taking on some really practical skills. They're thinking about improving all of those interactions through, uh, what people say, their tone of voice, um, their facial expression, and so on. And then we really get to the heart of, of what makes a difference. And It's so important because, you know, there's so many managers out there that haven't received that type of skills development or training, and they're the ones that can end up in a really difficult situation where they've got to manage, um, a tricky conversation. And, you know, we want, we want to skill managers so that they can have effective conversations and get the best from their, um, teams and, um, prevent the problems. from escalating. That's the best place to be in, isn't it? To be able to, to have the skills so that you can quickly, um, have a conversation and prevent things from, uh, escalating. So just to come back to your question, sorry about empathy. Um, we've got, we, we developed a model some time ago, which we call ECA. which stands for Empathy Care Action. And what we were looking to do was to find a way to bring compassion into organisations. So we noticed that this was a hot topic of discussion amongst HR leaders and other people around, you know, how could we improve culture and how can we bring some compassion into the workplace. So we started to take a bit of a deep dive into what it meant to be compassionate and was it right for organizations? And interestingly, some of our clients started to put compassion into their value sets. And then it's like, whoa, so now you're saying that. You know, that's an organizational value. So what does that mean in terms of behavior? And, and what we, um, uncovered was that those three elements, empathy, care, and action are all embedded within a compassionate response. So empathy, what we're talking about there is building rapport and trust really quickly, and we do that by paying the other person full attention and listening, we're asking for their point of view, for their perspective on something. So that's enabling us to experience a bit of it from, from their, um, uh, perspective. And of course, in that being nonjudgmental, which is, which is crucial to building that trust. Um, So that's empathy, but it's also important to demonstrate that we care. And for that we say, it's not fluffy, it's really important. So we're saying to people, um, I want to understand your point of view because I care about what you think. I care about your contribution to this team. And as the manager of this team, I care that we are able to meet our targets, deliver, uh, what we need to for the business. So it's about, um, caring about the other person, caring about them as a person, so their physical and mental wellbeing. It's caring about, um, outcomes. you know, what we need to deliver. And it's also an opportunity to find out what really matters to that other person. And I think sometimes this is something that gets missed. Um, and it's just such a simple question we can ask, which is, you know, what matters to you in all of this, tell me what matters to you and then to follow it up with. Okay. And what really matters right now? Interestingly, we did a piece of research back in COVID. Um, we went out to HR directors and we said to them, what matters to you at this time? And we've got these, important corporate messages back, which was we, what matters to us is the health of the workforce, that the business is sustainable, that we get through this period and so on. And then we said, okay, and what matt what really matters to you right now? And then we really got to the heart of it because it was about my health, my family, you know, looking after the people I love. Um, and so then we start to understand people's intrinsic motivations and that makes a big difference to relationships and how we support teams and whether we can get engagement and, and create the environment in which people become motivated. Um, and then the final piece, which is action. So for this, I was fascinated to learn that We're not being compassionate unless we take action. We have to take action. We can't just say, Oh yeah, I've done, I've been empathic. I've told them I care. No, we have to identify the right action and either take that ourselves on behalf of the other person or support them, enable them. empower them to do it for themselves. So, so yeah, I love the fact that, you know, we, we've got to move to action. Um, and that really suits, you know, my own preference because I think, you know, we all need to be able to make decisions and take action, particularly in workplaces and, and it's also about celebrating, you know, how far we've come, there's always more to do. Um, But don't lose sight of just what we've done to date. All the good things that we've achieved. And take some time to reflect on those and to celebrate those. So that's the, that's the model in a nutshell. Um, And we've used that with our clients. We've used it with, um, frontline staff. So people in public facing roles, customer service type roles, and we've also used it with managers to help them going on a Monday. Have that difficult conversation, take back their week, um, as well as the Monday and say, I'm not going to, you know, spend the weekend worrying about it because I know I've got the skills. I can go in, have a really good, effective conversation.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 8:22

I've got a whole page of notes. There's so many good things in there. I want to go back to the importance of action. And one of the things that I tell people when we talk about empathy Um, I work more on like the customer side of the experience. Right. And I always tell people, look, if you are not going to take action based on what your customers are saying to you, don't even ask, because there's nothing worse than hearing from your customers and having them give you feedback and, and care about your product or your service. And just feeling like they're shouting into the void. I'm just submitting tickets and nobody's paying attention. I'm, I'm asking for new features and nobody's even responding to me. I'm doing these surveys and nothing seems to be changing. Like. It's almost worse to not even ask if you aren't really going to take action.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 9:03

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say you, you, you even need to go further than that. You need to take the action and then you need to let them know that you've taken the action, that you've listened and this is what you're doing. But, you know, either we've done it or this is in the pipeline, thanks to your, your feedback. I think that's the way to build the, the, you know, really strong customer relationship.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 9:27

Having that, that connection of you have had a meaningful impact, right? Cause everybody wants to feel like they matter, whether you're a customer, an employee, a member of the team, like nobody wants to feel like they're just shouting into the void and nothing is actually changing and they ask for things and nobody really cares or they get lip service, but they never actually see that thing happen.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 9:48

That's so true. That's such an important point. And I think we have to value the customer's time. And if the customer has taken the time to complete the feedback, to send back the survey, to provide a comment, then we should at least respond to that, shouldn't we? Um, in a positive way, thank them for it and use it to move, move things on, you know, in a positive way. Um, one of the biggest contracts we won. Many years ago, it was on the back of a complaint. Um, so we had run a free workshop. We'd invited people to it. Um, People loved it apart from this one person who objected to, um, a line in the script that the actors had delivered. Um, so I arranged to go and see her on a one-to-one basis. Took me a little bit of time to, to get that meeting in the diary, but we got it in the diary. I went and saw her. I apologized, I said. what we were doing to ensure that, um, the actors, the actors had come off script a little bit and they needed to pull back and stay within the, the boundaries, uh, of what we were doing. We were very new at the time, um, to this work. It was right back at the beginning. So I explained the process I'd put in place to put those checks and balances in, um, and we had a nice conversation and, you know, I left it there. Six months later, I had a telephone call from that person saying, um, this need has come up in our organization. We think you'd be, um, the ideal provider. We do have to turn it around quickly. Could you come in and have a chat about it? So I said yes. So I'm sitting there and then she's telling her boss about the event that we'd run and how great it was and she's talking to them about the scenario that she'd complained about and saying how great it was and that's the one she wanted to bring in to the organization. So you never know where these things go. But the important thing is, is to respect everybody's point of view and to listen to it and to, um, you know, let them know what you're doing as a result of that feedback. So

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 12:14

I can imagine that most people's reaction to that would be like, well, it's one person out of the, you know, 80 people who enjoyed it. So let's just move on. Like, it almost took a lot of bravery to go talk to that person and like, have a conversation around their, their concerns.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 12:30

I think, I think it was just that need to demonstrate that there was integrity in, in what we were doing and integrity in our approach. And if we'd made a mistake, I wanted to have that opportunity to explain that we were. We were putting it right. Um, nobody, as you say, nobody else took offense. Um, it was something particular to this person, but when you're working in a very dynamic way, um, you know, things can happen. And I think it's the same, isn't it? When staff are interacting with customers, you know, it's very easy to come off script and say something slightly different and to get the tone wrong. And if we do that, then I think we do need to apologize.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 13:15

So thinking about, you know, empathy and use the word compassion, I can think of a lot of like traditional businesses who would say things like, well. That's too fluffy for us or I'm not their babysitter. I'm their boss and they're going to do the work because I said they're going to do the work. I actually had a conversation with a, a VP of sales who said something to the effect of, when we were talking about like an initiative we wanted people to do. And there was a task that people would have to do. It wasn't a super enjoyable task that, but they had to do it. And he said something like, well, they're going to do it or I'll come for their scalp. And I'm just sitting here thinking like, I would be scared to work for you. Like if, if it wasn't the best experience, what is the business use case for having compassion and, and having this ECA approach for your business? Why does it make sense for the bottom line?

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 14:03

because you get better engagement, you have higher motivated teams and people pulling together because they feel valued and supported and all of that leads to better results. you know, a higher performing team. So I think that's where it's, that's where it's coming from. And I think from the, from the neuroscience perspective, um, you know, it's so important for people to feel safe at work, psychologically safe, and to, um, enjoy their work, get the most out of it. As I said, to feel valued, to feel that they're connected to the purpose of the business, what, what the business is all about. And. I mean, certainly, um, you know, there's, since COVID, there's been quite a, an issue around engagement, hasn't there, within organisations. So, I think ensuring that people feel valued and listened to makes a difference. And, excuse me, and it doesn't cost anything other than a short amount of time and a willingness. to engage. That's all it is. And then willingness to listen to the other person. Um, and what we want, particularly in sales, what we want is positive energy. You know, it's so much easier to sell, isn't it? If we've, if we create that vibe, that, that great energy where people love being part of that team and, and wanting to contribute and to be there. It, it's so difficult if, um, you know, if it fills, um, So, the best service comes when, when, you know, there's a buzz about the place. Even in places like healthcare, where you would Obviously expect a level of compassion at all times. We also want people to feel valued and supported and that they're making a difference because they are. You know, the receptionist, the way the receptionist groups, groups the patient and their family members really matters. Um, And so in turn, they need to be treated well. That's my philosophy. Um, and I, I always challenge managers who come to me and say, Oh no, this, we want, you know, we're interested in profit. We want the bottom line. Um, and I say, well, Try it, you know, try this approach because I'm sure if you, um, develop that rapport with your team and create a positive environment, then you're going to get results. It's far easier than, than coming down hard on people and, um, just sort of having a negative energy about the place.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 17:01

My team does a lot of research, particularly on the customer side, lots of surveys about customer satisfaction and customer experience. And one of the through lines that we found was a strong correlation between happy employees. Equaling happy customers, happy customers, equaling a better brand perception at a better brand perception, equaling a better bottom line. And one of the things that we're finding now in our research is, you know, there was a lot of talk a while ago around quiet quitting for your employees, people who have just kind of like given up and you

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 17:30

Yeah,

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 17:30

psychological safety. We are now seeing a trend of quiet quitting from your customers, customers who are leaving your brand because they feel no connection or loyalty. And so, you know, where go the employees? So go the customers. And I think it's really important for us as leaders to say, Am I doing what I can to deliver on profit, which is making great connections with my customers. In my opinion, the quickest way to do that is to make great connections with your employees, because we know happy employees equals happy customers.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 18:02

and I think all sales people should prioritize the customer service team in their relationship building internally, because they're looking after their customers. So we need to, we need to be treating them well and supporting them because, you know, they can have quite pressurized roles, can't they? If they're on the phone all the time, or dealing with online transactions. So yeah, we need to be We need to be valuing, you know, everyone in the system. Um, and when we do that, like you say, we, it will come through, it will come through in, in improved sales and, and a better experience. And, you know, we spend so much time at work so many years. Um, we want to have great workplaces, don't we? We want to have great companies to work for. Why would we do it any other way? So,

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 18:59

If I'm going to spend more than half of my life working and then the other, you know, 30 percent thinking about work when I'm not there, why wouldn't we all want to have a place that we're, we're proud to be a part of living in a system that makes us better. And by making us better makes everything we're trying to do as an organization better. Who doesn't want that?

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 19:20

exactly. Yeah. Who doesn't want that?

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 19:23

So we have a tradition here on taking back Monday. We really want to know who inspires you. So in your experience with all of the incredible thought leaders, you've had a chance to meet or to hear from who is really taking back Monday.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 19:38

Oh, um, so who am I thinking about? Um, we have some really great, um, clients, um, and one particular client, so a health, a very large healthcare organization here in London. And, um, their complaints team really took it back. Um, because they, um, when their, their new team was formed. There was a lot of outstanding complaints and they, um, have done the most amazing job at, um, addressing those. And, um, we supported them in developing a whole range of resources. digital resources because they've got a very large workforce with thousands and, um, uh, all, all to support people to prevent complaints, address complaints, um, and provide those better patient, um, staff interactions at the very beginning of the patient journey, which is when they call on the phone, when they come in for an appointment, um, and I've met some really awesome, awesome people, um, on that journey. And that, that, um, piece of work's now up for an award. NHS Trust, um, in London, uh, they've done a really fantastic job.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 21:09

I love that. And if someone's really connecting with you, Jill, they want more of you. They want to learn more about your approach to, to empathy and compassion at work. Where can they find you online?

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 21:20

So there's our website, which is resoundtraining. co. uk. Uh, we have a YouTube channel, which is Resound Training. And that's for our training videos. Um, on LinkedIn, uh, my personal profile, Jill Brabner. They're our, our, our, uh, top places to go and find us. Um, and, and do get in touch cause we'd love to hear from your, your, uh, listeners, Alyssa. And, um, yeah, we will certainly respond to everyone who gets in touch.

alyssa-nolte_1_08-27-2024_124447: 21:57

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking back Monday with me. It was a great conversation.

gill-brabner_1_08-27-2024_184448: 22:01

That's brilliant. Thank you.