Taking Back Monday
Welcome to "Taking Back Monday," the podcast designed for the go-getters, the visionaries, and the trailblazers who are ready to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries and lead the way in creating meaningful work.
We talk about building high-performance teams, enhancing leadership skills, and creating impactful customer relationships.
It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.
Taking Back Monday
Why Good People Leave: Toxic Bosses & Saying No to @$$holes feat. Lindsay White
What happens when you give everything to a job—only to realize you’re working for a toxic, gaslighting boss? Lindsay White knows this story all too well. After a 20-year corporate career in HR and strategic talent management, she made the bold decision to walk away from a job that was making her miserable. In this episode, we dive into what finally pushed her over the edge, the grief that comes with leaving behind a career path you thought was yours forever, and how she turned that moment into an entirely new future.
Lindsay also shares her no-BS philosophy on leadership, why self-awareness is the difference between success and failure, and how to build a workplace culture where people actually want to stay. Plus, we tackle the myth of the “natural-born leader” and why being charismatic doesn’t mean you’re cut out to lead.
If you’ve ever felt stuck in a toxic work environment or wondered whether it’s time to bet on yourself, this episode is for you.
Key Takeaways:
- Toxic Work Environments Take a Toll – Staying in a toxic workplace, especially under a gaslighting boss, can drain you emotionally and physically. Recognizing when enough is enough—and having the courage to walk away—can be life-changing.
- Leadership Is a Skill, Not a Personality Trait – Being a great leader isn’t about being the loudest person in the room or having natural charisma. True leadership requires self-awareness, intentionality, and the ability to create an environment where others can thrive.
- People Strategy Is the Missing Piece – Businesses focus on sales, marketing, and operations, but often neglect the most critical element: their people. A strong people strategy connects talent to business goals, fosters belonging, and ensures that culture is more than just a buzzword.
Key Moments:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:31 Lindsay's Career Turning Point
01:25 Toxic Work Environment
02:20 The Decision to Quit
03:22 Transition to Coaching
05:41 Reflecting on Leadership
09:13 The Role of Coaching
16:49 Challenges in Coaching
22:41 Influential Thought Leaders
25:39 Conclusion and Contact Information
Share your thoughts - send us a text
It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.
Connect with Alyssa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssanolte/
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Hey everyone. Welcome back to Taking Back Monday. I am so excited that you decided to say goodbye to the Sunday Scaries and hello to a new future of meaningful work. And I'm even more excited to introduce you to my brand new friend, Lindsay. Lindsay, welcome to the show.
Lindsay White:Hey, thanks for having me.
Alyssa Nolte:I have been waiting for this conversation. I think we booked this before the holidays. And then, you know, it's like you get rushed, you get busy, you take a break. And then all of a sudden, this is our first day back to real life. And I get to talk to someone as incredible as you. So I'm really, really excited for this
Lindsay White:Yeah. Me
Alyssa Nolte:So we were kind of doing, you know, that pre recording conversation. And you mentioned that you had a real like turning point. And one of the questions I ask people on this podcast is tell me about your origin story. Like how did you get to be this person that you are?
Lindsay White:Yeah. Yeah. And, and, I mean, there's been a few of them, but I would tell you the one, the most recent turning point for me is, um, I had a, you know, a 20 year corporate career, um, the last 10 years of it working in HR and strategic talent management. And I worked, uh, as a strategic partner with C suite executives and senior leaders, helping them build people strategy to drive their business plan. Loved doing that work. Um, and spent a lot of time working as the quarterback to create that, you know, that, um, really incredible. workplace culture on each of those teams. Unfortunately, I ended up working for a hideously toxic boss. And let me just say, I got to work with some really incredible people, some really remarkable leaders, some really incredible, um, individuals at a variety of levels. But I ended up working for someone who is a narcissistic sociopathic gaslighter. She was horrific. Uh, it made me sick. After two years, I'm a people pleaser. I don't know about the rest of y'all that are listening, but I'm a people pleaser, um, and a hustler and I'm very driven. And after two years of trying to make this human being happy, I finally recognized one day in a meeting where she was giving me shit. Sorry. Am I allowed to swear? Sorry.
Alyssa Nolte:certainly are.
Lindsay White:she was giving me shit about one more thing. Cause that's all she ever did when she, it was all, she only ever talked to me when she was calling to give me shit about something that was stupid. Uh, I finally looked at her and said, You know what? I'm like, I'm not interested anymore. And we were on a virtual call. So I was like, you know what? I'm getting a little emotional about this. So I'm going to go now and here in Canada, you have the opportunity to negotiate some severance. So I, I, I, I shut my computer off. I drove home cause I was on site. Um, and I walked in the house and my husband said like, are you okay? And I said, well, I think I just quit my job. And he was like, you did what? Uh, and I did, I never went back. I negotiated my severance. Part of that severance was the coaching designation. Uh, the first one that I did, I now have two. Uh, and I never looked back and now I'm actually think I'm pretty much unemployable, right? Like I'm just not interested. in working for people like that any further. And I often say, I don't work for asshole. I don't work with assholes anymore. Cause if you're an asshole, I won't work with you. And that's my choice. Um, and, but it was a defining moment. Um, I quit my job in August of 2017. I went straight into my coaching designation in August or in September. And 18 months later, I had my first coaching designation and it's, Completely shifted, uh, the way that my life is and way I work and how I work and who I am.
Alyssa Nolte:Let's fast forward, or I guess rewind technically, back towards when you started working for that person. Did you know from the onset that they were going to be this terrible, toxic, gaslighting person?
Lindsay White:No, you know, it was really sad. We, we, we had a, we, the team I was on at the time, we had a leader that we actually really appreciated. I'm still connected with her. Um, she's one of the best leaders I've ever had. She really saw my potential and helped me grow and she was moving on. And so very consciously we were as a team involved in the recruitment of a new. Director. We're an HR team. You're working for a bunch of really, you know, we know how to do this. I have an, I have a recruitment designation. I've been doing recruitment for 20 years. I know how the process works. I design and implement them. And in fact, um, you know, she was very skillful at presenting herself in a way that we all felt really engaged with. Uh, and, and the, that, you know, that's, you know, sort of one of the true hallmarks of being a sociopath, right? Like you, you can act your way through it. You don't actually have any real attachment to emotion. And so it was over a period of time. And the truth is I'm not, I'm, I'm kind of the anti HR lady. Like I don't fit in that. Yes, always do it. No questions. sort of scenario. Like I don't, I don't fit in that professional sort of outline.
Alyssa Nolte:Yeah, some HR people are very black and white. There is no, No, room for reality inside of their idealism.
Lindsay White:No, it's policy and process and it's yes or no. Um, and I, and, and, and, and particularly in the culture I was working in, you had to say yes, you didn't have the option to say no or renegotiate. Well, I just asked too many questions, right? Like I am, I am way too bold for that. Um, and so in particular, I stood out. Right? Because I didn't, I didn't fit the cultural criteria. Yeah.
Alyssa Nolte:come across and it's been an interesting experience talking to all of these people because a lot of the people that come on the show have left traditional corporate America to go be their own boss and build their own thing. Now part of that might be the types of people who come on podcasts and are willing to be guests, but I'm seeing that more and more in what I'll call like normal people, people who've never expected to build their own business, never expected to leave a nine to five, never wanted the risk that comes along with. Saying no to working with assholes. I mean, did you ever think that this is what you would be doing?
Lindsay White:heaven's no. No, I'm a total accidental entrepreneur.
Alyssa Nolte:That I tell people that all the time. That's my uh tagline the accidental entrepreneur
Lindsay White:A hundred percent. No, it wasn't until I was in my coaching designation learning, right? The real tools and techniques. and and as peers, we would coach each other, right? That was a lot of our practice, especially early on. And so it was working with my peers. First of all, that I processed through a lot of what was left over from working with this toxic boss. So grateful. Help me work through the anger, the, uh, depression, the anxiety, you know, felt like I was in a straitjacket and then they challenged me. Well, if you don't think you want to go back to a traditional HR role, what do you want to do? Why don't you set up? Why don't you do it? You're like, and so that's where it came from. I would never. I was going to work at that. I'd still be working at that organization today. Another seven years later, that was my career. I had a path all laid out and certainly I had to grieve that. And I think that's part of it too. There's a lot of grieving that comes with leaving that career behind because you imagine yourself in that space to potentially retirement. So no, I would never, I would never have gone into business for myself. Uh, if it wasn't and I don't I won't thank her ever. Um, but she certainly changed my path
Alyssa Nolte:Yeah, sometimes we put people people come into our lives, uh for a reason that isn't always a good one But it you know, if you can find the silver lining I want to touch on the idea that you had there of grieving I think we wrap so much of our identities around what we do in work that you almost had to Greed, the loss of your, like yourself and who you were and, and what you had planned for the future
Lindsay White:yeah, 100%. And I do do some, you know, some career coaching work and, you know, work with people after they've exited their job for whatever reason that is. And it is a grieving process. It's not nearly as dramatic, perhaps, as losing a loved one. But it's the same process. And you're right. We have to actually let go of what we had planned, what we had envisioned, and who we were going to be. Right. And we do a lot of who we are is defined by what we do. And there's a process inside of that. And this is where the coaching is valuable to help you redefine who you are, not by the work you do, but by the values that you hold. And that's what people miss is their values become intertwined with the work they do or with the organization they work for. And there's a redefining process. What do I care about most? What do I value? How do I express and live and behave in a way that's aligned with that? That's what we lose. When we get too invested in our job.
Alyssa Nolte:on the flip side of that, you know, one of the things that I believe strongly and one of the core tenants of this podcast is that leaders have an obligation to create environments where their team feels. wanted and it's not toxic and you're not gaslighting them and you're not a sociopath. Like, tell me a little bit more about, you know, you, you believe in three things, great leadership, impactful people, strategy, and a culture that inspires. What does that actually mean to you? Besides, you know, three bullet points on a piece of paper?
Lindsay White:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how do you boil down an entire philosophy into something that can be easily shared? Um, so first of, first and foremost, great leadership to me means that it is authentic, that you are showing up in a way that maximizes your leadership superpowers. And we all have those. I believe everyone has the ability to lead. The desire is sometimes lacking or the skillset because being a leader is a skill, right? And so being But being a great leader means that you first and foremost are creating and inspiring other leaders. That's your number one job. The number two, three, four, that's getting the work done and doing it well and nurturing cultural spaces, creating a place where people feel like they belong. But number one job, creating and inspiring other leaders. Um, you know, people strategy to me is the key that unlocks talent, right? And it's the key that's often missing. You have a business plan. You're thinking about marketing sales. Maybe you're even thinking about operations. Are you thinking about capital? But what you're missing is the piece that creates all the value in your business, which is the human side. And so you have to have a strategy that actually connects those beautiful, talented people to the business plan. And that includes your vision, your mission, your values, how those show up in behaviors. What are the programs that create those beautiful belonging spaces? That's what people's strategy is all about, right? And then a culture that inspires. Well, it's a place where people feel like they can show up and deliver their best, right? Because that's ultimately, and people call me naive, but I believe that people want to do a good job. Are there the occasional asshole? 110%.
Alyssa Nolte:Right.
Lindsay White:Hire slow, fire fast. I'm all over that. But I think the vast majority, like 99. 9 percent of people actually want to do a good job. Well, when you create an environment where they feel safe, where they feel like they belong, where they feel invited, included, when they feel like they're treated. Equally when they're or equitably that's when they deliver when they feel like they're connected something bigger than themselves when they understand the why that's what culture is right when you have those three things lined up when you have really inspiring leaders that are awesome what they do when you have a people strategy that helps them do that and when you have a culture where people feel like they, you know, have just get to do amazing work with amazing others that that's unstoppable. A
Alyssa Nolte:And I think you use this word a couple of times, but the intentionality behind those activities, Like, when I was a young leader, when I was first getting into it, I was not intentional at all because I was young and I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have the skills to be a leader. I was just in a situation that required it. And I muddled my way through that. But there are so many things that I look at, back at, I almost cringe of like, those are going to come back to haunt me someday. Someone's going to be like, Oh, I worked for Alyssa and she was awful. So don't believe anything she says now. Like the evolution of those skills. Um, you know, I was, I was, I'm sure that I tried really hard. But I'm sure there are things that I messed up on and have that self awareness to look back at. So when you're looking at a leader and they really are, they're intentionally wanting to do this, what are the things that you you see in a person that tells you whether or not they're going to be successful in that intent?
Lindsay White:Yeah. I love it. And I thank you for sharing your story because listen, the most important thing is as leaders. Yeah. We, we're never going to get it right a hundred percent of the time. It's progress, not perfection. Right. Um, so that's important. It is also key. And the thing you didn't use the words, but you showed us the ability to self reflect. If you truly want to be a successful and inspiring leader, you have to be able to develop the self reflection muscle, you have to be able to look at your own behavior. Actually analyze how, how that worked, not only for yourself, but for others, you have to be able to give and most importantly, receive great feedback and be thoughtful about it. And I think, you know, you, you just talked about that. Like now you're able to look back. It is unfortunate. People like yourself get in that situation every day. Oh, you're an expert at what you do. You're really good at it. We're going to make you a leader. But leadership is an entirely different skill set likely than what you were doing before that. And so we're going to give you all the responsibility and the accountability, but we're going to tie both hands behind your back. Best of luck. When you think about it that way, it doesn't make any sense at all that we do that to people. Yes.
Alyssa Nolte:confuse leadership and charisma, right? You might, you might be naturally charismatic. You might be that person that kind of people gravitate to that doesn't mean you're a leader. You haven't earned the right to be the leader, but but we confuse the two. Like, oh, leadership is a personality trait rather than a skill, something we learn, something we hone over
Lindsay White:Yes. Yes. And, and I think that, you know, if you have both, if you have the charisma and the personality, and let's be clear, I'm not just talking about. The person who is the loudest and talks the most, because often in our corporate environments, that's who we recognize as being a leader. They're at the front of the room. They say a lot of words. And everybody likes them. That is not leadership. You need to be able to lead, to be truly effective in a variety of different places and spaces. And one of the hardest is actually leading from behind, stepping out of the spotlight, using your ears and your mouth and the proportion God gave them to you and actually supporting others. As they discover and begin to lead themselves. So, yeah, no, the most charismatic person is not the lead. They're the Pied Piper, and they'll lead you right off the cliff more often than not.
Alyssa Nolte:Right. Right. Especially if they're not going to look around and say, Hey, wait a minute. The, the signs are pointing to this not being the right way to go.
Lindsay White:And if they're not listening, one of the most important, one of the critical leadership skills that is so underutilized and so underdeveloped is listening.
Alyssa Nolte:We, uh, we use a, a note taker in a lot of our meetings and one of the things that I love that it does is at the top it says speaking percentage. So it will say like, Alyssa, 79 percent or whatever, and I made it a goal one time to get that number down because I didn't want to be the one that's always talking in the meeting. Right, it's my meeting, I'm leading it, yada yada yada, but Sitting back and actually like listening and letting people have opinions, even if they're different than mine or different strategies, even if they're different than mine doesn't mean that they're wrong. And my growth can evolve based on hearing other people's ideas, opinions, and strategies.
Lindsay White:Oh, that's beautiful. It's really beautifully said. Yeah.
Alyssa Nolte:So let's talk about the other side though. We, you know, self awareness not super easy for a lot of leaders, but have you ever just had a coaching client where you're like, you know, we can do this thing, but. I can tell you right now, this, this, and this means it's not going to be successful.
Lindsay White:Yeah. That's actually a really great question. Um, you know, I'm pretty straightforward, right? And that's, I shoot from the hip. That's who I am. And so when I. first engage with a new client. We have our very first session. At least the majority of it is talking about how we're going to work together. We create the framework for our conversations. And one of the things I articulate right from the beginning is that if they are not invested, In the process that there is no point in us spending the time and the money, right? Cause I'm not, I'm not being paid to be your best friend. I'm not being, I'm not your therapist. Like just to be clear, I'm your coach. And so what I'm going to say to you is going to be provocative. I'm going to push you. I'm going to provoke you. I'm gonna light a fire. I'm going to ask you the difficult question that likely nobody else in your life has the balls to ask you.
Alyssa Nolte:Mm hmm.
Lindsay White:I'm going to make you feel uncomfortable. So if you're not ready for that, then perhaps there's a different way we need to engage or a different time. So I'm very clear right from the beginning. And very often, um, people will say yes. And then there are moments when they're like, I don't feel like this is working for me. And we talk it through. Um, but I've never had someone who I've had to say, you know, this isn't going to work for us. Because after that conversation, they self select pretty quickly if it's not for them, right?
Alyssa Nolte:And I, I think setting those expectations is so, so important up front. I, I worked with a, a company that did, um, executive coaching and they were bringing in all of these coaches for their executives and they were, the company was subsidizing the cost, but they didn't create the right expectations. So, The coaches were frustrated because the program wasn't being followed correctly and the coachees were frustrated because they came in with this expectation of this person's going to give me all the secrets to the universe and all I have to do is show up for 90 minutes once a month and all my problems will be solved and they didn't realize that this was more, more accountability, less teaching and less education. They were treating it like one on one training instead of one on one coaching. Right?
Lindsay White:you know what, that is a tricky, because there's a difference between mentorship and pedagogy, which is the teaching, consulting, which means you're hiring someone for their expertise, and coaching. When you're thinking about engaging with coaching, one of the foundational things you need to understand is that coaching is about you, not about the coach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alyssa Nolte:Mm hmm.
Lindsay White:I believe all of my clients are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole, which means they have or can find all the answers. What they need is a guide.
Alyssa Nolte:Right, to help them unlock, unlock, what's already inside of them.
Lindsay White:Exactly. And that's my job. My job isn't to tell them anything. Now, to be fair, depends on the scenario, because sometimes I am hired as a coach and consultant. And so there is opportunities for me to offer things that I do know or have learned or expertise I do have, but it's all in the way you offer it. So here's this framework for feedback, this feedback model, what do you think about this? How could you implement this? What would this look like? How would it feel using it? Right? So there's an opportunity to provide some things and still do that in a very coach like way. But that is doing, that's doing everyone a disservice when you're unclear about. What is coaching so many people don't understand what it actually is and they mislabel themselves and they mislabel the work they're doing.
Alyssa Nolte:I think that that applies to almost every work experience. Like how often as a leader outside of coaching, you know, when you fail to label something in a way that that makes sense and can be consistent. Because I've worked with people where, like, they would label it one thing and then I knew if I just waited three or four weeks it would be something entirely different and then wait three or four weeks it's gonna be something entirely different. How do you translate those same ideas into, into top down or leading from behind?
Lindsay White:Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, that's the leading from behind is a perfect example of being mislabeled. I think people feel like that's a very passive way to lead. Um, that it's very lazy, perhaps in some people's view, but in fact, leading from behind is still incredibly active. You are, you are holding space, you are creating the environment and you are energetically attached to that environment where you are actively involved in listening and observing how others are interacting.
Alyssa Nolte:Mm hmm.
Lindsay White:Right. So that you can lead even more effectively. It gives you a different perspective. And so I think that's a perfect example of how people feel like, well, if I don't talk a lot, if I'm not the one at the front, if I'm not the one coming up with all the ideas, if I'm not the one that's managing the conversation, then I'm not leading. In fact, I think that's completely untrue.
Alyssa Nolte:Right. You're managing, You're not leading.
Lindsay White:right. And you're taking up all the oxygen in the room and that leaves very little for everybody else. Right. We manage tasks. We lead people. That's the difference. When you can make that shift in your head, that shifts the way you show up as a leader.
Alyssa Nolte:Absolutely. So we were actually introduced via a mutual friend who knew what we were both up to and, and was like, Hey, you two got to meet. Um, so now it's your turn to put someone else on the hot seat. You know, thinking about all the incredible people that you've met or, or listened to, or thought leaders that are out in the market, who in your mind is taking back Monday,
Lindsay White:I have to tell you, you know, when, when you asked me this question, the first person I thought about is Dr. Brené Brown. I really, um, I'm a little bit obsessed with her approach. Um, you know, just in general, right? So one of my favorite books is The Gifts of Imperfection. I have this incredibly like dog eared copy because I read it basically every year. And, you know, then her philosophies on, um, leadership, so dare to lead and, um, those kinds of books that she's written have been profoundly impactful. I think first and foremost because it's a very human centered approach. Right. I mean, that's what she does. She's a, she's a shame researcher, right? And in our workplaces. our traditional command and control leadership style has created a great deal of shame. So it actually makes real sense that her research led her down to, you know, down this hallway of leadership development. But I really appreciate that she, you know, she embraces this with such a storytelling style. I think as leaders, we can all learn from that. We're far more approachable in the way we articulate, uh, what we're trying to accomplish. And then of course, just You know, making it far more human so that we don't have the Sunday scaries. We don't have as many of those regrets that you and I have talked about, right? That we can actually just embrace that we're human and that we are innately imperfect. Um, but that we have the opportunity to learn and grow. And that's really, you know, at the heart of what she talks about. Yeah.
Alyssa Nolte:that. I love her. Um, I, I came across her for the first time. I was listening to Adam Grant's podcast and she was a guest on the podcast. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with this person because there's something about her. And I'm sure you've heard her speak, but there's something about her and the way that she talks that you just feel like she believes the words that are coming out of her mouth. They are not lip service.
Lindsay White:And I, let me just say, I love Adam Grant as well. I think he's wonderful. I love Simon Sinek. I think he's fantastic, but that's what they all have in common. These are people that truly deeply believe that every single person has the ability to be a great leader
Alyssa Nolte:Yeah. They're authentic to what they're trying to do.
Lindsay White:100 percent and that we can change the world if we can all show up more effectively as leaders. Not just at work, but in our families, in our communities, globally, right? That's what they talk about. And I love that.
Alyssa Nolte:And they just have different, different methods to help you unlock those shortcuts. But at the end of the day, all of their, they're all doing the same thing. Let's make, let's be good people. Let's build a good world. Let's live good lives.
Lindsay White:Yeah, 100%.
Alyssa Nolte:So Lindsay, if someone is really connecting with you, they want to hear more. They, they want to learn about your coaching or your other things that you've got going on. Where can they find you online?
Lindsay White:Yeah. So you can find me at highvoltageleadership. ca. That's my website. I hang out a lot on LinkedIn. So you can find me there. Lindsay White, come and connect with me. And I'm also on Instagram and my handle there is at highvoltleadership.
Alyssa Nolte:Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me and taking back Monday.
Lindsay White:Thank you so much. What a great conversation. Thanks for joining us on Taking Back Monday, where we say goodbye to the Sunday scaries and hello to meaningful and fulfilling work. If you enjoyed today's episode, let's connect on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And if you found value here, share the podcast with your network. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review. It helps us inspire more leaders to join the movement. Until next time, let's take back Monday.
