Talk Less, Lead More: Building Rapport and Real Influence feat. Scott Harvey

What do hostage negotiation and leadership have in common? A lot more than you'd think. In this episode of Taking Back Monday, Scott Harvey shares what 20 years in law enforcement taught him about communication, influence, and why good leadership starts with listening - not talking.

Whether you’re leading a team, managing tough conversations, or just trying to show your people you give a damn, this episode is packed with practical advice and powerful storytelling.

3 Key Takeaways:
→ Silence without rapport feels like you don’t care, why trust is built long before it’s tested.
→ The best leaders talk less and ask better questions, influence comes from listening, not lecturing.
→ Feedback is a gift (when delivered with care), uncomfortable conversations are the most generous thing a leader can do.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:14 Scott's Origin Story
00:31 Lessons from Law Enforcement
02:02 The Power of Communication
05:49 Leadership and Listening
17:37 Building Rapport in Remote Work
25:36 Conclusion and Contact Information

It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.

Connect with Alyssa
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Transcript

Alyssa Nolte: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome back to taking back Monday. I am so excited that you decided to say goodbye to the Sunday scaries and hello to a brand new future of work, and I'm even more excited to introduce you to our guest today. Welcome to the show, Scott.

Scott Harvey: 0:12

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Alyssa Nolte: 0:14

So we were kind of chatting in the beginning about, you know, your background. You've done podcasts before. You do a lot of other people's podcasts. What I really wanna know is what is your origin story? How did you get here?

Scott Harvey: 0:27

So I love that question because it is. It's the basis for what I do today. So I spent 20 years in law enforcement and in that time in law enforcement, I was a hostile negotiator. I was a media relations officer. I was teaching the DARE program. I was teaching our Citizens Police Academy, and it dawned on me about halfway through my career that I was communicating for a living. I was just wearing a police uniform to do it. I was also that guy when I was on patrol that would talk my way out of any potential resistance and fight. Like, I can take you to the ground, I just don't want to. I would much rather talk you out of it. And I think even further than that, I was a middle child of three boys. And so the middle kid is the peacemaker. Like my older brother, my younger brother, never been wrong about anything in their life. And quite frankly, I don't care. I'm just gonna broker the piece. So that's. Kind of when I realized that in law enforcement, I also realized that I could retire at at 43 because it was a 20 year hazardous duty retirement.'cause I started at 23 and I knew the public pension was a nice safety net, but it wasn't something to build a life on. And so about eight years left before retirement, I started speaking professionally at conferences that I was already attending. And that turned into those people that were there said, Hey, would you come train our staff or would you come do a program for our students? And that's where the speaking business started with eight years left into retirement. And when I retired, I was able to step directly into the speaking and coaching business. I. Without really missing a beat.'cause I had eight years to get that boat close enough to the dock to where I could step onto it. So I was running to a new career instead of running from my past career, just in the communication world because I learned early on the power of communication. My favorite movie as a kid is Dead Poet Society because that shows

Alyssa Nolte: 2:17

Yes.

Scott Harvey: 2:18

the

Alyssa Nolte: 2:18

Oh, captain, my captain,

Scott Harvey: 2:20

Oh, that movie gives me chills, Alyssa, like, and the thing is like when I showed it to my wife and daughters who are grown now, like they were like, meh. And I'm like, how can you met this movie? And my wife said, I think it's a boy coming of age movie. Maybe I. But to me it showed the power of your words to influence and change people's lives. And so I think that's largely the origin was, was back as the middle boy of three sons and, and the dead poet society. And then the police world set me up for the career that I'm doing today and I freaking love it. Like being on stage, connecting with people is my happy place.

Alyssa Nolte: 2:59

I haven't thought about that movie honestly in years. I think I watched it. We watched it as part of, um, a literature class, I believe in like school. And now that I'm thinking about it, it's. One of the best examples of of leadership, right? Because the main character is meeting those students where they are. We're not gonna call it, you know, early, early English literature. We're gonna call it the Dead Post Society. We're gonna put a name on it that you can resonate with that piques your interest as the group of people I'm supposed to lead. And instead of just saying, Hey, I'm the teacher, you're the students, you're gonna do it my way. He met them where they are and, and that is the truest example of. Incredible leadership.

Scott Harvey: 3:40

And the way he reached every individual student with what they needed. And they would laugh at their peer who needed more than they did until he isolated that peer and brought them into it. And then everybody got it. Like that kid just needed to see it a different way. Hear it a different way. I. And to me it, it was a game changer to show the power of, of influence with our words. Um, because as I said, physically, I'm very capable. I learned that in the police world. I don't want to resort to physical. I would much rather teach you, motivate you, change your behavior with my words

Alyssa Nolte: 4:12

Well, it's more likely to stick too, right? Like if I throw you down, you're gonna get back up Eventually. If I, if I ask, deescalate the situation with my words and I build that rapport than like, we're just not gonna have this repeat of this situation.

Scott Harvey: 4:26

For sure. And the hoston negotiator, the, the thing I loved about that part of my job was I needed you to do what I needed you to do, but I needed you to believe it was your idea, because then you have ownership of it. And today in the business world, that's huge. Like, I need you to do what's going to make us successful as a company, as your leader, but I need you to own it like it's your own. So that only happens when I ask good questions, when I understand what your motivations are, when I know what your wins are. And as a negotiator, if I could get a resolution that allowed them to check as many win boxes as possible, they're gonna pick that option. And it sounds manipulative to say, get you to do what I need you to do, but with what I need you to do is in your best interests, then I'm doing you a service, a favor. By ask, by getting you to select that choice, if that makes sense. Like as a negotiator, I wanted you and everybody in there to come out alive. You were too emotional to understand that at the time, but that was my aim. And if I can successfully do that, we all win. In the business world, if I can make you successful in your job, we both win. You may get promoted, you may get a bonus, and I as your leader. Get to share in that and help you achieve more. And if that promotes you off my team, then I'm gonna celebrate with you.

Alyssa Nolte: 5:49

The interesting thing that you're talking about here is I think a lot of us as leaders, sometimes conflate position and our ability to communicate with the fact that we're just like. Megaphoning people, right? I'm just telling you it's a one-way street. I am broadcasting the communication and not accepting the communication in return. So how do you coach leaders or businesses or people who wanna be better communicators to to listen as much as they speak Peak.

Scott Harvey: 6:21

So I, I love that question because that's the secret sauce. So I always tell people, silence without rapport feels like we don't care. That's the key in business today. If you are silent and there's an issue, I'm gonna start looking for a new job. If I'm a team member, or I'm gonna choose a new place to do my business. If I'm a client or a customer, like I know there's an issue and you're not talking about it, silence is killing me. But if I have a level of rapport with you. It might support a short, short type of silence. Like when my wife and I are on a road trip, it might be an hour. Neither one of us says a word, but we've been married for 28 years and we have thousands of hours of communication that'll support that level of silence. So to answer your question, when we were looking for a new hostage negotiator, we weren't looking for the officer who was a good talker. We were looking for the officer who was a good listener. Because I've never talked to anybody into doing anything, but I've listened a lot of people into doing what I need them to do. Right? And so as a corporate executive, as a leader today, that's the one pushback I hear when I go in and train teams is they say, Scott, I don't have that kind of time. I don't have the time to really listen. Like I know what the solution is. I'm just gonna give it to'em and turn 'em loose. I'm like, okay, that may be true, but if you don't have the time to listen today. Then make time in the future for this same problem to keep coming up because if you don't get to the root of the problem today, you are band-aiding it, uh, and it will crop up again because you didn't address it. So you can invest time today and connect with your team and build a level of rapport that will get you through the difficult situations later on because they at least know you care. If they don't feel like you care because you've never taken the time to listen to 'em at the first issue, a first crisis that comes up, they're out. But if you are a good listener and you have listened to them, uh, periodically, they'll run through walls for you because they just know that you care.

Alyssa Nolte: 8:23

To, to come back to, um, almost the movie theme, and I'm, I'm gonna blank on what it is. Um, but there was a quote that has always stuck with me, and it's a little tongue in cheek, but it's like an older gentleman yelling at a boy like, you are you listening to me? You know? And the boy goes, I hear you. And what he means is, I'm not listening to you, but I do hear you. And I think that is a huge, that stuck with me. I don't even know what movie it was, but that scene has stuck with me because. There's a huge difference between hearing people, which is a passive, I'm not really absorbing what you're saying. Kind of phrase and listening to people you might, if you're not, if you're wasting your time just hearing people and you're not listening to people, then you are really wasting your time.

Scott Harvey: 9:03

And theirs, and it feels like you don't care. You know? That's the thing. The silence without rapport feels like we don't care. I had a law enforcement leadership instructor years ago when I became a sergeant. He told me, he said, listen to your people. They'll tell you everything you need to know. And I've never forgotten that. Like if you genuinely listen and you have your finger on the pulse of your team, those are the things that that. Bond people together. And today, let's be honest, we can't pay people what they could make someplace else. But I tell people all the time, I don't care if you're paying somebody a million dollars a year, if you have a toxic culture, they'll find another place to be. And if you are paying somebody a little bit less than, let's say they could make down the street, but you have an amazing culture, they will love coming to work every day. They feel like this is a place that knows me, that accepts me, that I matter, and we are running towards the same thing. Now, this is not an excuse to pay people less, but let's be honest, there's always a job that pays more. If they're looking, they'll find that job, but they'll only be looking if you've not taken the time to listen to 'em, connect with them. If you do all those things, they're not even looking because these are my people and this is where I belong.

Alyssa Nolte: 10:20

I, I wanna dive into the idea a little bit. Like, okay, so you come to me with a problem. I'm your leader, and I listen to you, but unfortunately, you're not gonna like the answer, right? Because sometimes, sometimes, you know you do have a problem and you're not gonna like the solution. Like, I do this with my, you know, my 6-year-old. Like, yes, I hear you. I understand that you don't want to go to bedtime. I do agree with you that bedtime is the worst. However, the right thing to do is, is to go to bed.

Scott Harvey: 10:47

Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Nolte: 10:48

I think that there is a process by which we build, we build trust with our team. We build rapport. But I also think leaders have to do a better job of communicating the intent behind their decision making, right? So you come to me with a problem, I give you an answer you don't like, it can't just be like, and I'm the boss, so there's my answer. So how do you, how do you communicate the underlying reason that maybe doesn't make sense if they don't have the context you have as the leader?

Scott Harvey: 11:16

So it depends. There's a sliding scale on this. You know, in the law enforcement world, we were taught to follow orders, right? Because seconds matter. So I need you to do this and I need you to do it without question, and

Alyssa Nolte: 11:26

Right, and not, not overthink it, just do it

Scott Harvey: 11:28

Just do it. But sometimes after the fact, we need to come back and explain that thought process so that they have a context for the next time. Like, I need you to do it in the moment. Later on. Once the crisis is over, we'll do a debrief and we'll talk about why we made that decision. So in the business world, we're not always making life and death decisions, right? It's different than the law enforcement world. But if you have to, as a leader, I tell people, you're paid to say no. That's, that's your job. Anybody can say yes. A bad leader says yes all the time, right? A good leader says no, but in a way that your team understands, right? And so sometimes I tell leaders that it, it doesn't always work with a 6-year-old, unfortunately.'cause they're prefrontal cortex isn't developed enough to understand this. Uh, but with a team, it's easy to say. Listen, I, I want to discuss this with you. I always say, discuss one-on-one, uh, correct. Individually praise in public. That's what we do. So we pull somebody aside and I just tell people to call it out in the beginning. Say, this is gonna be an uncomfortable conversation. This is gonna be an awkward conversation, but I want you to be successful here. I think you have a lot of potential and in order for you to be successful. We need you to do this, this, and this. Right? You phrase that in a way that if you do these things, you are going to be successful here, and that's genuinely what I want. As your leader, I want you to be successful. You're not a threat to me. Your success is my success, and I genuinely want to see you even outgrow my team. If that happens, I'm gonna celebrate that with you. If you start the conversation that way, they become less defensive. And it's not seen as an attack. And I even tell people, I, I want this to be a productive conversation. So if I say something offensive, please let me know. I'm not trying to offend. If you say something offensive, I'll extend you the same courtesy, right? I'll say, we can't talk about that, or Please don't use those words with me, or something like that so that we get better at the end of it. That's what we want at the end of this. We want both of us to leave this conversation better than we came to it Now, they may not understand that as they leave the conversation. It's the next day when their emotions have come back down that they're like, you know what? They didn't have to have that conversation with me. They did, and that's a cool thing. Like they did that to make me better. In the moment I felt defensive and I felt like I was being attacked. But the way they left the conversation was. If I can do anything else to help you, please come let me know. You can do this. You are very capable and I want nothing more than to see you succeed. If that's how you leave the conversation. When they settle down, they'll realize I've never had a boss care enough about me to have an uncomfortable conversation with me. Uh, because that's what we need to do, is we need to have uncomfortable conversations. The, the. Opposite that I see with a lot of organizations is you have leaders who say, well, I don't wanna micromanage. It's not a big deal. I'm not gonna bring it up. And they don't course correct their team. To me, that's the meanest thing you can do. You see somebody doing something that's going to cause harm to them or the company, and because you want to be their friend, you don't correct them. To me, the people I love the most in this world love me enough to correct me when I need it. The people who don't care about me will let me continue down a horrible path.

Alyssa Nolte: 14:52

The, and there's a little bit of, I agree with everything you're saying. There's a little bit of skepticism though, because I've had bosses that. Aren't correcting me from a place of, of love and like growth. They're correcting me from a place of I'm the boss, you're the employee, and I need to take you down a peg. And so in order for that to work though, you really have to build, um, I'll come back to this word, rapport. Um, you really have to build that rapport. What, what is the cheat sheet? What is the hack? How can I get started on building rapport with my team that allows me to create an environment that's psychologically safe enough for me to hold them accountable?

Scott Harvey: 15:30

I think the secret way to build rapport is to listen. To ask good questions. As a leader, we feel like we should be the ones talking. I think the best leaders say very little. They just ask good questions and they listen to the answers. So, if I am your leader and I know what you value, whether that's your kids, whether that's your good name, whether that's your skills in this area, and I know that's important to you, then I know how best to motivate you. And you come to me and you say, I'm really having a hard day. I see that. Um, has your kid ever had a hard day? How do you help them through that? Like you reframe it in a way that puts what they value in the forefront. And I think you're always gonna have bosses who have, um, I. Bad intentions or they don't care. That's when it's hard as a, as a direct report for me.'cause then you kind of have to lead up and you have to do the best you can in that situation and understand this person. If that's the way they are, they're probably not gonna be your leader for long. Uh, because they will self-select out or the company will find someplace else for them to be. You've just gotta do your job, be respectful, uh, be respectful of people even when they don't respect you, um, and do the best you can until that person either leaves on their own or they find another place for them in the company. I don't know if that answers your question or not, but those are my thoughts.

Alyssa Nolte: 16:55

it does. Um, my, uh, one of my friends owns a, a software business, a a website business. They build digital marketing websites and stuff like that. And you know, when we start businesses, we, the first thing you do is like, set your core values right. And for some people those are words on a wall. Um, but as you were talking, I was thinking back to his, he has one core value for his company and it's give a damn. Give a damn about your customers. Give a damn about your employees. Give a damn about your work. And I'm like, that is the best core value I've ever heard. Because it's exactly what you're talking about. If you just care about your team as people beyond assets on your org chart and, and see them as people. I work from home though, that's really hard to do. Like all of our meetings are so tactical. So for this post Covid remote world, how can you, how do you build rapport when. All we have is a Zoom conversation.

Scott Harvey: 17:47

That's really hard. Uh, I, I'm a fan of Zoom, uh, when we can't get together. I am not a fan of Zoom when we can, so the across the room office, zooms, make me insane. Go to the conference room, get together because there's a difference when we breathe the same air, there's a vibe that we get when we're in the same room. If you can't do that, um, I. It's difficult to make those connections because once the Zoom call's over, I'm out. If we're in the conference room, once the meeting's over, I may hang out for another couple of minutes while you talk about your weekend, or you talk about your kids' soccer game or whatever it is, and those are connections that can't be replicated on Zoom. So I feel bad for this. Newest working generation because that's really all they've known. If they enter the workforce around 2020, they've had five years of virtual. And I heard a, a young lady in a coffee shop say to her friend, she said, my, I have to go to Florida for a meeting. And it makes me so mad because this could have been a Zoom call. I. And I'm like, first off, we live in Kentucky. If you're going to Florida, how mad can you be? Right? You're going to Florida. Right? But I, I am not mad at her because that's all she's ever known. She doesn't understand when we get in the same room, it's the ride in the elevator. It's the lunch that we shared. It's the drink we shared after the meeting where we really connect and things change. Uh, because now I get to know you. You're not just a face in a box.

Alyssa Nolte: 19:17

The other thing I think we're losing in this, um, you know, not to be like, um, that generation, you know, the next generation, um, I'm a millennial, so I'm, I've been living that my whole life. But there's also, um, what I call like bullpen osmosis that you're missing, right? So if I were, if you work in like an open environment, you work in a cubicle, nobody loves cubicles, but you do pick up things that you wouldn't pick up otherwise. So if someone asks me a question, and we used to have a bullpen where I worked, um, if someone asks me a question and I shout the answer across the bullpen, you heard the question and the answer without having to be a part of the one-on-one conversation. So you pick up things simply by being in the room. And that we have lost too. And I, I feel like there's gonna be a lot of knowledge transfer issues in the coming years as people move up the ranks, because they're gonna miss out on all of that like absorption of knowledge and they're gonna have to actively learn it. And they just maybe don't even know that they should.

Scott Harvey: 20:13

Yes. And creativity is a team sport. And it doesn't mean the creative team. It could mean the finance guy sitting there with his cup of coffee while you talk about creative things. He's like, what about this?

Alyssa Nolte: 20:25

Mm-hmm.

Scott Harvey: 20:25

you never thought of that?'cause you're inside the bottle.

Alyssa Nolte: 20:28

My, my husband's a CPA and he, I run creative stuff by him all the time, and he has good things because he's an outside perspective.

Scott Harvey: 20:35

yes. We can't read the label from inside the bottle, and you miss that when you're not in the team environment. And you know, I also work from home. Now, you know, this is the home office, but at least one day a week I'm in a coffee shop. I need to be around the people, even if that means I have headphones in and I only have headphones in, if the conversation next to me is way too juicy, like I'm invested in whether or not they're gonna get together at the end of this or not. Like I'm such a people person that I'm distracted by that. So I've put the headphones in, but I wrote my book in a dozen coffee shops. Because I'm productive when I'm around the hustle and bustle. Even if I'm not participating in the conversations now, the extrovert in me is waiting for somebody to come and sit at my table and talk to me. Like that's one of the reasons I'm in the coffee shop. But I also literally need the people to be more productive and to feed off their energy when I can't produce my own, if that makes sense.

Alyssa Nolte: 21:33

I, uh, a hundred percent makes sense to me because I just started a monthly coffee meetup of local business owners, leaders or people who are just interested in meeting other people, and almost exclusively the attendees are people who work from home, who need a reason to see real people. In the real world and that isn't related to a youth sporting event or, or something like that. And so I was blown away by people who wanted to come to this simply because they wanted to see people and be in the real world for an hour. And like, don't get me wrong, I don't think I could work in an office again. I do love working from home, but there are times where I'm like, should I just go rent like a coworking desk and see if I can, you know, go do that for a little bit. Because I needed that, that space.

Scott Harvey: 22:22

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I get that. I, I don't think I would want to be 40 hours a week in an office. Uh, but I think there is some synergy that we miss when we're not that, uh, and I. The coworking desk to me doesn't appeal because I can buy a lot of coffee for what a coworking space costs, and I can work in different coffee shops all the time because not only am I an extrovert, I, I tend to be a DHD, and so the same environment all the time. It's a little boring. And so I really geek out when a new coffee shop opens and I go and I'm like, this is either my vibe or it's not. Uh, and I'll be honest with you, I like my coffee shops darkened brooding, like I don't like the bright, airy, cheery music type place. I need a darkened, brooding coffee shop to do the kind of

Alyssa Nolte: 23:05

give some lo-fi music and, uh, dark wood. So for our coffee meetup, we're actually just going to a different coffee shop every time, so it changes. We're rotating to local coffee shops. Um. Uh, I could literally talk to you all day, but we are running out of time. So, um, I wanna ask you, you know, when you think about all of the people that you have had a chance to meet or that you know, or that you aspire to know, who is leading the charge, who is taking back Monday?

Scott Harvey: 23:32

So I am a huge fan of John Acuff. I don't know if you know John or not. He's a speaker and an author, and I. I met him for coffee one time, even though we weren't friends. We're best friends now. That's what I tell people. Like, I'm best friends with this guy who's making 30 to 50 k each keynote he does, right? We're best friends. But what I love about him is the books he writes, uh, and the way he speaks, he puts the cookies on the bottom shelf. Like there's no big words. There's a lot of humor. Uh, because what I learned in the speaking world is in the writing world is when I can tie my principles. To an emotion. Uh, for him, it's humor, right? For me, if you're in one of my keynotes, you are going to shed a tear, which sounds manipulative, right? But what I'm actually doing is giving you the best chance of remembering the communication content that I'm teaching because your brain stores in a different file when it triggers an emotion. So he does that through humor. I do that with a little bit of humor, but also some poignant stories. And I just, you know, I'm going to his event in April. He's hosting his first event and I can't wait to reconnect with my best friend, John Acuff.

Alyssa Nolte: 24:39

I am gonna follow up on that really quick. I just had this conversation this morning, um, about the fact that we as people like to think of ourselves as rational creatures, we're logic driven and decision. We make decisions based on facts. We are not. Every decision we make is emotional and we rationalize with facts after the fact. So, um, to your point, like using humor and using emotion and, and that human connection. To drive home factual points that's rooted in science. It's not even just manipulative. So,

Scott Harvey: 25:10

and, and the people who are very fact driven. Your husband being in the accounting world or in the, in the actuarial world, whatever, even that type of person will pile up enough facts. Until they feel comfortable making the decision, it's a feeling, it's an emotion. And they would, they would argue with me, and I'm like, you can argue with me all you want, but it is an emotional decision every time you buy or do business with somebody.

Alyssa Nolte: 25:34

Exactly. Exactly. Um, Scott, if someone is really connecting with you, if they wanna learn more, if they want to, you know, become your your new best friend, where can they find you online?

Scott Harvey: 25:44

They can find me@speakingofharvey.com. There's links to all my socials at the bottom of that website, but they can also email me directly, Scott, at speaking of harvey.com. As an extrovert, I answer all of my emails. I know there are VAs who would do that for me, but I just love connecting with people. So

Alyssa Nolte: 26:01

come sit at Scott's coffee shop table. Right. Come sit down at the coffee shop table with him.

Scott Harvey: 26:05

if you are local, we will not communicate through email. We will go and get coffee somewhere.

Alyssa Nolte: 26:10

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking back Monday with me. This was great.

Scott Harvey: 26:13

Thank you.

Alyssa Nolte: 26:16

Thanks for joining us on taking back Monday where we say goodbye to the Sunday scaries and hello to meaningful and fulfilling work. If you enjoyed today's episode, let's connect on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and if you found value here, share the podcast with your network. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review. It helps us inspire more leaders to join the movement. Until next time, let's take back Monday.