Heart-Brain Hacks for Better Leadership feat. Natalie Alesi

What if the key to better leadership isn’t another tool or framework, but your own nervous system? In this episode of Taking Back Monday, Natalie Alesi unpacks the science behind heart-brain coherence and how leaders can use it to build trust, reduce stress, and create more connected, high-performing teams. We talk about neuroscience in plain English, why consistency matters more than charisma, and how intuitive intelligence can be a strategic advantage in today’s remote world. Whether you're leading a global team or just trying to show up better for the people around you, this conversation will make you think differently about what leadership really requires.

Key Takeaways:

→ The science behind “heart-brain coherence” and why it matters at work
→ How to build trust in a remote, distracted world
→ Why stress isn’t just a feeling, it’s a barrier to innovation and performance

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:18 Natalie's Origin Story
02:26 Discovering Heart Brain Coherence
03:25 Mind-Body Connection in Leadership
07:26 Building Trust and Authentic Connections
09:42 Remote Work Challenges and Solutions
12:07 Techniques for Heart Brain Coherence
15:44 The Importance of Self-Awareness in Leadership
18:42 Neuroscience and Business Success
25:23 Influential Figures and Resources
27:10 Conclusion and Contact Information

It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.

Connect with Alyssa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssanolte/
Subscribe to the Taking Back Monday Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7158635254474272768/
Follow the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TakingBackMondayPod
Follow the show on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@takingbackmondaypod

Transcript

0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome back to taking Back Monday. I am so excited that you decided to say goodbye to the Sunday Scaries and hello to a brand new future of work, and I'm even more excited to introduce you to our guest today. Welcome to the show, Natalie. Hi everybody. Thanks Alyssa. It's so great to be here today. So a couple of episodes ago, and by a couple, I mean like 20 or 30 episodes ago, I started asking this one question that's kind of become the staple of this podcast. And so I'm gonna ask you today, Natalie, tell us what is your origin story? I. Uh, I love that you asked that question. It really made me think, um, about growing up in business and. You know, we don't really, we're not taught how to grow up in business. Uh, there were a lot of things that I and witnessed much, probably like many others, um, with conflicting viewpoints, strong personalities, uh, really, you know, different opinions, struggles, uh, in managing, politics. Rapid change. It kept me up at night. Uh, I was stressed, overwhelmed, and what I realized is that my day job was also infiltrating my personal life, and it started to give me. Health issues, quite frankly, right? Where I was stressed and I was overwhelmed and being in leadership, right? We wanna show up for our team members and the people that we work with, our colleagues in a very positive light. and so it, it kind of got me thinking around 3:00 AM is 3:00 AM moments you know, how can I make a difference? How can I make, uh, a change? And we all work? I would say in. Companies where we have a lot of cross-functional dynamics, cross-functional teams, um, have my own team, right? And everybody's so smart and everybody wants to do right, and everybody wants to help. But the inner workings of how we work together and thinking about how do we that in a, in a, in a more cohesive way, in a more heart, human centered way, uh. It really became a passion of mine. Um, and I've always had an interest for alt what would be considered alternative healing techniques. and I, I happen to stumble across neuroscience, uh, which is the study of the brain and, and the nervous system, kind of like the, the operating system of the human mind. And I learned about something called Heart Brain Coherence, which is a technique that you can use to reduce stress and impact and influence others that you work with. uh, that's where I kind of came up with this idea of integrating, uh, neuroscience customer success, which is the field that I'm in. Uh, and obviously leadership. And I came up with something called the Success Synapse, which is really combining and integrating all three of those, uh, and navigating our day-to-day jobs in the workforce. That's really cool. We've had a, I had a couple of people on the show that have really talked about that, that mind body connection. Right. And at first you, you know, when you first hear it, you might dismiss it as like, oh, this is just kind of woo woo kind of stuff. Right. But there actually is real science. I. Behind this hard data, hard facts. And like anecdotally, I had a conversation with, um, so in my, my very limited free time, I coach a high school dance team, right? And I noticed that they were having a really hard time getting through one of their routines. And I said to them like, what is it about this routine that is holding you back? Why are you breathing so heavy after we run through this routine? And they're like, well, we're just, I just don't know that I can get through it. And I said, all you have to tell yourself is that this routine is so easy and it's not that hard, and you'll just get through it. And I think they looked at me like I was crazy. So we started, I would say, this routine is what, and they would have to reply so easy, and they would make fun of me for like the first week, and then all of a sudden it started to click for them. Like, oh wait, no, this is actually working. She, she's not full of shit. Like this is actually working. But how many times do we lay in bed at 3:00 AM and let that, that moment of, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this. What am I doing with my life? Creep in? Rather than saying, okay, I might not like this, but am I willing to make a change or do I need to change my mindset? I. I love that story, and I think what resonates too is that stress. There actually is a physical reaction in the body, and this is where you have spikes of cortisol, the stress hormone, and. Staying awake at night, ruminating about things. It actually impacts our ability in how we make decisions when the body is stressed. And there's something called the heart rate variability. And one of the interesting things that I learned as I was, um, as I've been studying neuroscience and this, this just still. Fascinates me today, is that the heart emits an electromagnetic field that can actually be measured with today's equipment three feet from the body, and that the heart contains 40,000 neuro cells. That actually are in the brain. And people think that the brain tells the heart, but it's the heart that is telling the brain. And so to your story with your high school kids, which you were really doing is you were synchronizing their ability in the mind and the heart and coming together, and that's really. That's really the coherence. When we can get into these states of stress and balance between the heart and the mind, we really can rewire the brain for new experiences to handle things differently. So what you were doing with those, with that group, uh, was quite scientific. You probably just didn't even realize it and. happens in teams is the brains that the, the, what happens in the brain is that you have neural networks and the neural networks that fire together wire together. And with a team, you create what's called neural synchrony, where they're all focused on. One goal and how they're gonna achieve it. And so over time, what that does is it rewires our brains for the teams to execute better together to achieve whatever the goal is. kudos to you. That's, uh, that's a great story. The interesting thing though is I don't know that that would've worked if they didn't have. A degree of, of trust and belief in me as their leader and their coach, right? Because if I'm just a random stranger and I'm like, Hey, you know, if you just change the way you're thinking, everything will work out for you, right? You wouldn't believe me'cause you didn't know me. So as a leader who's trying to implement this, Natalie, how are you, how do you do that in a way that your team believes it?'cause if they don't believe it, it won't work. Yeah. I mean that's so important in leadership, right? And I think really that is a foundation of building trust. So. What you're talking about there is what I think many leaders and organizations face today is there's such a tremendous amount of change and it all comes back to an authentic human connection. And there's so much in the world today that I would say divides us. have, we have all different things that while it's great to celebrate someone's individuality, there's a lot of things that is divisive in the world today. And I think one of the challenge as leaders in building that trust is. Is us coming back to the fact that we're all human that we want to be vulnerable. We want to be heard, we wanna reduce fear, we wanna be authentic. bringing that authenticity to your team, hearing them, um, validating them, it's all a matter of that synchrony that is really a heart led. really a heart led ability to, to be able to do that. Um, and it takes time, right? Trust isn't built overnight. Um, if you're, you know, I'm in the customer success, uh, realm and trust isn't built overnight with our customers, right? It's, it's that repetition over time, that you, that your team and your customers feel supported and that they can count on you. um. Something I think is profound when we think about transformation and change, right? It's kind of combining emotional intelligence, intuitive intelligence, um, that allows us to create a connection with people. At the end of the day, it's about people. Yeah, I, I think that's so important too. Like, I work from home, right? So I'm in the middle of Iowa. My team is spread out all over the country. My clients have never set foot in the Midwest, and so I. There's that human element of it, right? But we're separated by technology and by screens, don't get me wrong, like I love remote work. You're, you're gonna pry that from my cold dead hands. However, you can't replace that human to human connection. And there's something that you have to do if you're. In this kind of environment, you have to work twice as hard to build those relationships, to make those connections. But I wanna come back to something that you said about, you know, building that trust is about that repetition. I think that we have to also double down on the fact that that repetition has to, has to pull up the word consistency. You have to consistently and repetitively. Show up for your people because if you are, I, I, I was a psychology major, so I'm so excited about this neuroscience conversation. But like, if you're creating cognitive distance for your team where your behavior and actions and your mouth are saying different things, they are never going to believe you, no matter how sincere you are trying to be. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Um. I have a team, global team, and we are also, many of us are remote. Uh, there's a few folks that can go into our offices, but it's, it's the majority. It's a, it's a remote team Right. I think that's a challenge that leaders today that has historically have grown up. In a business where they've been in four walls, uh, it's a skill to learn how to a connection Yeah. world when there are so many different distractions and sometimes people can feel, uh, isolated. Yeah. And I will say that even in a remote environment. As human beings, we all of us possess, uh, a superpower of, of what I would call your intuitive intelligence. have you ever like walked into a room and you can tell if there's been an argument or that it's tense, uh, or there's like maybe some dense energy, right? We all kind of p possess that ability to, to feel those things. Sometimes we have to work harder at it. Some, it doesn't always come as natural, um, to some folks, but. One of the techniques in the heart brain coherence is a breathing technique where you can get your body and they actually have little monitors that you can put up to your ear that that monitor your heart rate variability. And what happens in the human body is that when you become stressed and they, they actually train this, uh, in. Uh, high stress environments like law enforcement or ER doctors. If you can get your body in a state of heart brain coherence through doing different techniques, you actually have the ability. To impact the energy of the people that you're communicating with, and that you don't necessarily have to physically be in an office to do that. can feel the calm and that energy, even through remote or virtual environment. It's easier when you're in person for sure, and Yeah. replaces that experience of being in person. there are techniques that allow. Leaders to bring that energy to the table, to, build consistently that trust. that was a challenge. I think that. In working with my team that we did face, but it was the consistent vulnerability the couple times a year that we were in person really connecting. Um, perhaps I'm biased, but we are one of the highest performing teams, uh, in the organization that I work for today. And, um, is a, what's the word I wanna use there is, um. A, a, a high connection, uh, and fun positive vibe on the team where we're very collaborative, very supportive, and it's really changed the way that we've executed and our customers feel that as well. So, I find it fascinating. Another example of this too, Alyssa, is, I don't know if people are familiar with the story of the Miracle on Ice. Where it was the US and Russia hockey teams back in the eighties where US was the underdog. Right. And they kind of, the coach came in and did what you were sharing that you were doing with your team, right. Bringing them together. What they did is they all had one goal. They believed in the, and trusted their coach, they ended up winning. Uh, they ended up winning the. The game, right? They beat the Russian hockey team and the coach did that through creating that neural synchrony within the team. Obviously trust was the foundation, but he was able to build that. I. I think that's something that you, you talked about the word intuitive, right? Truly, truly great leaders do have a level of that intuitiveness, right, of what's going to work, what's going to sink your team. Whether you realize that you're, you're doing something that's sciencey or not, you are doing something that has that intuition. If you want to be a great leader, if you want to create this, this. Feeling of all having the same goal and working in the same direction, but maybe it's, it's a, a muscle you're trying to build. Right. What would be the number one thing you'd have that leader start doing? What's the first thing they should start working on? Oh, that's a great question. The first thing I would say is you have to have the ability to be self-aware. Yeah. you do not have self-awareness of how you come across to your team, um, I'm not quite sure you're going to be able to build a connection with others if you are not able to look at yourself and build the connection with yourself first. And I know that sounds kind of silly, but as I've worked with. Different organizations over the years, and I think about my experiences with some strong, difficult, uh, perhaps personalities. It, I started to kind of psychoanalyze people, um, and go, wow, I'm not sure that that person is self-aware. I know I can come across as very passionate and, uh, I am from Jersey. So, uh, people always say, oh, there's a jersey girl in you. And I say, yeah, you can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can't take the jersey out of the girl. And I'm very aware of that. Yeah. Um, so I think having the self-awareness is the first thing. The second thing I would say is. You know, the most innovative companies and the innovative leaders, they're brave and they're always looking for what's new and what's different to create a competitive advantage, let's say. Yeah. And. Using these different brain, coherent techniques to in, in, in essence rewire your brain for making a difference, making a change, and bringing that into the day-to-day way that you run your team. Those practices that leaders can bring to the table will, they will really see the impact the positive nature. For how their teams execute. Um, and you know, what a, what better way to empower our workforce and your employees to really tackle the challenges that, uh, we're, we're facing, especially in a world of, of AI today. Right. And, and I think it's, you know, we're businesses, right? We're here to make money. And sometimes it's hard to sit down and slow down and say, okay, let's do something that doesn't have a direct connection to my p and l. Right? So how do you make the case for leaders who, who want to do this, but works in an environment where. If it's not a moneymaking activity, especially in our customer facing roles, then it's not an activity. People give any time or emotional connection to. I think, well, one of the things I would say is that any foundation of a business to make money is in its people. So you can have all the greatest technology in the world, but if you do not have the right people in the right roles. To build the connection, to build a culture. You may be successful, but you won't be as successful as you could be. And to me, it always comes down to the individual people, uh, within an organization. what they found is that organizations that give whole company wellness days, right? So what happens in the human brain is you can have things where. team members are very stressed because they don't have clarity on their priorities, or they have to make lots of decisions, and they have what they get, uh, what's called decision fatigue. maybe they don't have the social connection because we're not providing the ability to connect. Uh, maybe they lack purpose or they're lacking motivation. What happens is that all turns into chemical processes with our hormones and our body. And so when you really think about how do we become profitable and maintain our competitive advantage, it truly is from within the human body that that magic or those superpowers occur. So I think it's helping organizations look at the way. That we support our employees differently. Uh, because what ends up happening is that when your employees are happy and they have those mental breaks and they can get into a coherent state, it actually triggers oxytocin and dopamine, which are the feel good hormones that ultimately wire teams and organizations to come together. And that's where innovation flourishes. And so if people are coming in and they. Have all of these other stressors from life or kids or pets or whatever, right. And they're bringing that into their workplace with all of these other demands. You know, I think, I think innovative businesses are starting to look at the human potential in a much, much different way. Right? It create And what, and again, just to kind of add to this. We have in our brains, neuroplastic neuroplasticity. the thinking here is that. You know, in childhood the brains are wired a certain way and that it can't be changed. Well, with neuroplasticity, what's actually happening is you're able to change your brain and rewire the brain so that the brain itself is reorganized. and this really has created a dynamic where. It creates space for the new and for the innovation and what business doesn't want that. Right? So it's really looking at human led, heart centered ways of connecting. I. Let's go back to that miracle on ice story that you. Talked about earlier in the show. One question kind of occurred to me as you were talking about this from the leadership perspective, and that question was, let's, let's imagine a scenario for a second where you had, you know, the coach, you had the guys on the team and everyone has bought in, but there's one, one bad Apple who hasn't really bought into this thing that you're trying to create. Can you still be successful in getting everyone to neuro sync? If there's someone who is kind of poisoning the well. Well, I think it certainly creates, um, and this is, this is a challenge I think that many leaders face that lead multiple. Teams. Right. Um, and I love that you asked that question because the reality is, is that it still comes down to understanding what's going on with that particular person who may be having a hard time. And let's be real. I mean, that's all of us from time to time, right. Life gets in the way. Uh, and there's different strategies and different management strategies and leadership strategies around how to help team members when maybe they're not totally bought in. but I think it goes back to, again, a foundational understanding of what's causing right. That friction. What is causing, um. Them to not get on board. Right. Yeah. it even starts, you know, one of the things that we do, uh, in customer success on my teams we look for culture fit. When we're starting the hiring process can we make a connection when we're hiring folks, will they support the team dynamic? Do they have, uh, an area of expertise or an energy is going to support the broader team? Yeah. so we do, I would say. Rigorous interviews to make sure that we're really hiring the right culture fit. Because I'm a believer of if you have the right skillset, you can learn the skillset if you're passionate about what it is you wanna do. So I think it comes down to understanding, right? What's blocking that person from getting on board and addressing it. And it goes back to building trust, So depending on. Who has what problems in their day life, right? In their day-to-day life or maybe outside of work. And then really hearing, uh, the person and understanding where, where they're coming from goes a long way. It goes back to that, you know, human led, heart centric, uh, approach. Yeah. I, I think that that is the, the central theme of everything we're talking, right? Uh, the human led emphasis on the human, the human, the human part of what. We all have that. I think sometimes we let go in favor of tools, technology, and process. And we forget that there's people at the center of it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Natalie, you obviously are very well educated in this topic. You, you must have done a ton of research. Who else should we be listening to? Who is leading the charge and taking back Monday? Uh, well. I've spent the last several years studying neuroscience in different capacities, listening to lots of different experts, and I would say the one that has made the biggest impact for me, kind of tying the personal, looking at a personal level, um, of, of neuroscience. And healing ourselves is Dr. Joe, uh, Dispenza. He's probably been one of the most impactful leaders in speaking about neuroscience, uh, that has impacted me and really fueled my passion, in this area. And then, um. other organizations I would say that are starting to emerge, uh, in business that we're seeing. Uh, and another organization that has been impactful for me is the HeartMath Institute, based in California, and they have a free book called The Science of the Heart. You can download it, and it talks a little bit more in depth about what happens in the human body and the brain, uh, as it relates to neuroscience, and they have. 20 years of research, uh, in studying coherence and what we can be doing as leaders to influence, uh, and support sort of this heart centric human led, uh, approach. So those would be the two folks I would say, or I, well, the one fo well, uh, blah, um, Dr. Joe Dispenza and, uh, the HeartMath Institute. Awesome. Okay. So, um, if someone is really connecting with you, if they wanna nerd out on science, they want to, to talk about the approach, they wanna learn more about HeartMath, where, where can they find you online? How should they connect? Oh, okay. Well, I would say it would be LinkedIn, so you can just look up Natalie Lesi, A-L-E-S-I on LinkedIn, and I do have, uh, a new newsletter around customer success, neuroscience, and leadership that folks can subscribe to if they find it interesting. Also, on LinkedIn, it's on my profile. It's called the Success Signups. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking back Monday with me. This was a great conversation. Thanks Alyssa for having me.