Big Decisions Beat Habits: How to Change Your Life Trajectory feat. Apollo Emeka

Alyssa sits down with Dr. Apollo Emeka for a powerful conversation about the choices that shape our lives. Apollo shares his journey from high school dropout to Green Beret, FBI agent, entrepreneur, and coach. Together, they explore why big decisions (not habits) are the true turning points. This episode will challenge how you think about discipline, shortcuts, and creating the life you want.

Why listen?
If you’ve ever felt stuck chasing habits or grinding through routines that don’t get you closer to your goals, this conversation will give you a new lens. Alyssa and Apollo show how changing your decisions and your environment can shift everything.

Key Takeaways

•  Big decisions change your trajectory...habits only optimize it.
•  You can create environments that make discipline easier, instead of forcing willpower.
•  A clear decision gives you criteria to avoid distractions and stay focused on what really matters.

It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.

Connect with Alyssa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssanolte/
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Transcript

0:01

Hey everyone. Welcome back to taking back Monday. I am so excited that you decided to say goodbye to the Sunday scaries and hello to a brand new future of work. My name is Alyssa Nolte And I'm Dr. Apollo Emeka and we are going to have a fantastic conversation. So Dr. Apollo, tell us what is your origin story? origin story. Woo. All right. Um, so I, I tend to see the world through decisions. I think there are three kinds of decisions that we make. There are inherited decisions, there are default decisions, and there are big decisions, but I'll tell you about the inherited decisions that I was born into. These are, you know, choices that I didn't get to make my parents made them for me. So, um, I was born into, uh, a relationship between a southern black man from Arkansas and a central Oregonian white woman. And my dad joined the Air Force, was stationed in Corvallis, and they met in the sixties and, um, pretty quickly, you know, fell in love and got married. And they were, uh, at the time this Supreme Court decision, uh, the loving decision had not been, had not come down yet. And so it was still illegal in many states for them to be married. And my, my dad was told by his mom to carry his marriage license with him everywhere he went because. Uh, you know, traveling with a white woman through the south, um, and saying, this is my wife. They'd be like, oh yeah, okay. Um, so that is the, the spirit that my parents had back in the sixties. And, uh, and that's, that's kind of that counter culture, slightly rebellious. I'm gonna follow my heart and do what I want, is the context that I was born into in 1984. Um. And they, I was raised in this kind of free spirited, if your heart wants it, do it. If your heart doesn't want it, don't do it. And in that same vein, um, my parents gave me the ability to choose when I would be enrolled in school from the time that I was nine years old. And I don't know what school was like for you, Alyssa, but like for me, most of the time it was like, no, I don't wanna be in school. Um, so I, I, I. Did not develop habits, discipline. I didn't check these boxes of like reading at grade level of graduating elementary or middle or even high school. Um, but I had these big, huge dreams of being on Saturday Night Live or being in the FBI and um, I decided. To, uh, uh, my mom got pancreatic cancer at, at when I was 17 and, and just died and five months later and I was in complete free fall. I had quit everything that I had ever started before, elementary, middle school, sports, everything. And I had these huge dreams and no habits, no pedigree, and I, and I thought, how am I gonna get there? So fast forward. So that's the origin story. Fast forward. I spent the next kind of 20 years getting there. I, I, I made it to the FBI, I ended up, uh, getting my doctorate along the way. I, I stayed in the military. I, I went straight into the military, uh, after I dropped out of high school and, uh, stayed in for 20 years. Combined active and reserve time. Half of that was as an intelligence analyst. Half of that was as a, uh, a Green Beret, army Special Forces. Um, and then got into entrepreneurship. So, uh, you know, you asked the question of origin story and, and now I just talked for five minutes. So you're welcome and I'm sorry. And thank you. no, no. I'm obsessed with that because everything that you kind of talked about is. Kind of the opposite of, you're kind of the opposite of what we would expect in an outcome of, of that story, right? Like, you know, getting married as a, as an interracial couple in the sixties, like, and from the south. Like, can you imagine all of the challenges that they had to overcome, but then being kind of that free spirit and, and my, uh, my motto in life is like, be all in or be all out. So I totally relate to that idea of like, either you're all in on something or you're all out on something.'cause there's nothing more frustrating for me than people who are just kind of like. Happen, but refuse to move on, right? Either you're doing it or you're not, but like everything that you're talking about would lead a to a logical conclusion of someone who never makes it, is never successful, doesn't achieve a doctorate, doesn't achieve their dreams because you, right? You didn't have the habits, you didn't have the experience, you didn't have the nepotism of someone to, to put you into this kind Oh opportunity, right? And so. You, you made it sound easy, right? Like 20 years of trying to achieve your dream, but it cannot have been as easy as being like, and I decided to do it, and 28 years later, here I am. So let's go back and talk about what it was actually like to look at yourself and say, okay, I don't have the stuff that I need right now, so what am I gonna do to make it happen? Yeah. Well, and this is, this is where we start to get into that second kind of decision type of default decisions or big decisions, right? So I was born into these inherited decisions and everybody is, you don't choose what language you speak. You don't choose where you live. You don't choose who you grow up around, right? Like, these are things that are the consequences of somebody else's decisions that you are just living in. Uh, and then for most folks, they kind of like graduate to default decisions. What are you gonna do after high school? You are gonna go into the military, you are gonna start working, you are gonna go to college. Uh, and, and then, um, there are big decisions. And big decisions are the ones that are, you can tell it's a big decision. If when you think about that decision, it lights you up like 10 out of 10, you're like, oh my goodness. I would walk over hot coals in pursuit of this decision right here. Um, and so I, because my parents, I think. I didn't have the ability to decide kind of beaten out of me by school. In school, you're taught to do, you're taught to work, you're taught to check the box. You're taught to do the next thing to, you know, line up in order to to be in certain places at certain times. And so you're taught to execute. And I didn't get that stuff, but I also was kind of just doing whatever I was following my heart on a daily basis. Yeah. And, um, and so where I didn't have the, where I didn't have the, the habits and the pedigree, um, I also wasn't exposed to kind of the other, the other side effects of that kind of positive brainwashing of, you know, just kind of going along with whatever's being served to you. Um, and so it was, I was in this space where I knew. That I needed a big decision to change my trajectory. I knew that I needed better habits and better discipline. I also knew that sitting at home with my dad was not gonna be the way that I got better habits and discipline. And so I was literally thinking, what is the fastest way and the easiest way? This is kind of counterintuitive, but like what's the easiest way that I can build tenacity and discipline? And for me it was the military. And so I was like, oh, okay. I'm going to make a big decision. That puts me inside of a decision box where having discipline is gonna be way easier than not having discipline because at home with my dad, it was gonna be way easier to not have discipline. Right? But when you've got that drill sergeant in your face. 24 7. It's way easier to be disciplined than not. So, you know, people say that there are no shortcuts in life, and I just don't believe that even when it comes to something like discipline, I found a shortcut to being able to develop it. One of the things that, um, my husband and I are having a lot of conversations about right now is, um, we have young children, right? So we have a 6-year-old and a 10-year-old. He turns 10 tomorrow actually. And, um, you know, we're. Trying to show him that there are no shortcuts to life, right? Like that you have to do the hard work, but there are ways to create the circumstances that you have it a little bit easier, right? So to your point, right, if you wanna develop discipline, what better place to put yourself than in the military? You have created a circumstance in which you are more likely to succeed. In developing that discipline, you have stacked the odds in your favor of achieving whatever that outcome is. So, well, it might not have been a shortcut. It is like a cheat sheet for getting the outcome that you want. And I think a lot of times people look at the. At the outcome that they want. And they're not looking at the things that they can do to put themselves in the circumstances that they need to put themselves in, in order to achieve that outcome. Um, another good example, I had a, one of my very first podcast guests almost a year ago, um, he grew up in Connecticut, and so he grew up in like, like the blue bloods kind of neighborhoods, except he was a, you know, a poor white kid who didn't have any of those things. And so what he started to do was surround himself. Um, with those people, and he would ask those people who had a ton of money, how did you get your money? How did you make your money? What are the things you did to get to that point? Because he wanted to achieve that goal. So he started to caddy at a country club and to do those things because he wanted to surround himself and he made a big decision so that he would have access to those default decisions. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, snap. I love it. Um, I love that. And I, I think that there's just, there's so much. I think one of the bestselling books of All Times is Atomic Habits by James Clear. Um, and I think it's an awesome book. Um, David Goggins another special operations dude, he's all about building habits, building discipline, um, and I think that there's so much in our, in our culture that. That kind of professes that. Habits and discipline are the cure all for all of your problems. If you want, you know, if you want a better life, work for a better life. If you want a better life, grind it out. And I think that it's decisions, I think decisions be habits all day. I think, um, that. Habits optimize your trajectory. Um, but decisions change your trajectory. And, um, my wife was born and raised in, in Pasadena, Altadena, California. And just in January of this year, we had the Eaton fire and 94 structures burned to the ground. 19 people died. Um, we had to evacuate. Her mom lost her home. Um. Uh, it was my wife's childhood home and, uh, we were evacuated to San Diego and ashes started falling on us in San Diego, and I was, and some fires had kicked off down there. And at the time, I was already kind of, all of this stuff was swirling around. The impact of AI and tech on the economy and our social and political tensions and breakdowns. And uh, and then we had this climate thing like literally come right up to our front door. And so I was like, man, there's so many things that are going on that I feel like are getting more and more difficult to manage. And I was talking to one of my friends and, uh, I called, I called one of my friends and I was like, in the backyard of this, this Airbnb in San Diego. And I said, you know, I feel like I gotta get outta here. Uh, like out of the country. And she said, well, have you been to Panama? Like, I was just there and it's amazing. I was like, oh no, I've never been there before. And uh, and so I got off the phone with her and this was in January, and I like basically Googled all the reasons not to move to Panama. I was trying to break that notion, um, and I couldn't find, you know, so I'm Googling like. Panama Tsunami, Panama Safety Panama, you know, like, and uh, and I could not find a reason not to move to Panama. So I go in to my wife who's standing in the kitchen of this Airbnb and I said, are we supposed to move to Panama? And she said, maybe. And we, 48 hours later, we had decided we were moving to Panama. And 27 days after that, us with our, our then 3-year-old and 6-year-old. Um, landed in Panama and we've been living here for the past five, six months now. So when, you know, changing that I have shortcutted, a lot of the challenges that I and my family were facing in a different geography by changing it, we've literally eliminated. The climate challenge, the economic challenge. And so this decision box that we're now in this big decision has made it so that our, our habits and our actions actually need to be different than they were in in Pasadena. One of my, my favorite books and I talk about it. I mean, if you've listened to this podcast, you've probably heard me talk about this book a hundred times now. Um, it very much aligns with what you're talking about and very much aligns with those habits.'cause my issue with habits is that. You can have all the right intentions, you can even set a habit. But if you haven't created the right circumstances and environment for you to be successful in those habits, or if there are things that are out of your control that could change your habits, then like what good are they? Right? And so one of my favorite books is a book by Seth Godin called The Dip and the Hmm. Yeah, Have you read it before? I have, yeah. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's so quick. It's like a hundred pages. Yeah. It's tiny. just read it. Yeah. came in the mail and I was like, oh, this isn't even a book. This is a pamphlet. But, um, but the entire premise of the book is like the greatest people in the world only start things that they are willing to finish. Right? And if, if you are not going to be the greatest in the world at it, don't even start because there's this natural like, excitement, right? You moving to pan. Then there's going to be a dip. And unless you are willing to work through that dip and make that oppor and, and go past that point.'cause no matter what you do, the excitement wears off. Right. So when you were looking at, you know, changing your circumstances and putting yourself in a new environment, was there ever that moment in the back of your mind of like. Why in the world would we uproot our lives and take our young children, not only to a foreign country, but like several, uh, thousands of miles away from where you basically have existed your entire life? Yeah. Um, well, going back to that kind of high school dropout era. When I went into the military, I went on as military intelligence because a recruiter was like, oh, if you wanna go into the FBI, you should go Intel. And that'll be, you know, like, you'll Right, A natural leap. you'll be, yeah. Um, wasn't quite as easy as he said, but it was, it, it did help. Um, and, uh, but the first academic program that I graduated from was military intelligence school and, um, we basically have two responsibilities. As a military intelligence analyst, it is to understand what is the most dangerous thing that could happen and what is the most likely thing that could happen. So that is, you know, the operations side of the military uses that information to plan their operations and to do war games. So they say, okay, so our Intel folks have told us that if we do this, the enemy is most likely to do this, and the most dangerous thing they could do is this. And so if they did that, then we would do this. Okay. And then they're able to basically fight the fight. Uh, before they deploy any troops, before, uh, there are any resources committed. And I think that, so that was the first academic program that I successfully graduated, taught me how to do those two things. What's the most likely dangerous thing that could happen and what's the most dangerous thing that could happen? And so I think, you know, the more excited you are at about an idea, the more you owe it to yourself, but also the more permission you have to try to break it. Right. oftentimes we try to pump ourselves up and we try to say all of the ways that, you know, all of the, the, we try to find all the reasons why it can work or why it will work. And where my brain naturally goes is what are the most likely challenges we're gonna face and what are the most dangerous challenges we're gonna face? And so that, I can't remember what he calls it, but like the valley of uncertainty or what the valley something like that. whatever it is. Right. And when you're in that dip. You can actually, you don't have to go naively into that valley. There's so much that You shouldn't. and you should not. You must not. Um, so, so there's a lot that you can do in thinking about the challenges that you're going to, uh, encounter. And then you just say, all right, well what of these challenges can I mitigate? Then after I've mitigated, am I willing to live with the, the residual risk we call it, in the, in, in that world, you know, can I live? I've, I've figured out these are the most likely challenges. We're not gonna see family. It's gonna be, you know, expensive to travel. It's gonna be harder to get clients down there. It's gonna be, so if I can mitigate all those things, uh, down to an acceptable level, then I, then I make the big decision. I move with it. Right. Well, and and I think you're a hundred percent right, too many people focus on the what, what wonderful things could happen to me, and not necessarily what does it actually mean to make this decision? Because there's some stats out there that are like. 99% of all podcasts that are on Apple Music have, uh, 10 episodes or less. Right? And so if you make more than 10 episodes, suddenly you're in the top 1% of all podcasts out there. And, and 90% of all small businesses fail. Yeah. And, and you have to, I think, really have clear eyes on those decisions to say, this is the worst thing that could happen to me. I could lose my house. Am I willing to risk it? I could get fired from my job. Am I willing to risk it? And if you can't with your whole chest, say like, here's the reasons why I'm willing to risk it. Here's the things I'm going to do to make sure that that doesn't happen. And have really clear eyes.'cause I have too many people that I talk to that are like, and I could become a millionaire. I'm like, well, let's not. The thing you need to be thinking about if you're going to be successful in this. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing that's so wild about it is that it's just thinking. It's thinking. It costs you nothing, right? And so if you're afraid to think about the downsides of a decision, imagine how you're gonna deal with actually The reality. the reality of the downsides of that decision where you can't just. Think yourself in a different direction. You now have to act yourself in a different direction. So And sometimes in circumstances that are out of your control and there's only so much acting you can do. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, I, I, I think that that big decisions, I think big decisions went out over the overstaying in the, the inherited box, or even going the default route because. What we've found is that life is challenging, right? And so if you are not enjo, it's not only is life challenging, but it's also hard to achieve success on any measure, right? So like it's hard to actually become that millionaire or that C-suite executive or that whatever, get the vacation house in the place. Like all of these things are actually, they're all hard, right? The, the destinations. Getting there. So, um, and there's a chance that it's, you're not gonna get there in the way that you think, right? And so I think it's more than a chance. I think it's an, it's an almost certainty that it's not gonna happen the way you think. It'll, at least in my experience, Right. And you know, and that's, and part of that is like, maybe you think in 10 years I want to be in this place. And four years from now you're like, oh, I can't believe I used to want that. That's okay too. But what, what, what really sucks is when you're doing stuff that you don't want to do to get a place that you don't want to go or. Probably won't get to. And so then, and I think that's where a lot of people wake up with regret. Um, sometimes in their thirties, sometimes in their forties, sometimes in their fifties with like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I spent all that time doing a thing I didn't want to do to get to a place that I don't even want to be. And it's a, it's a tale as old as time, really.'cause how many this podcast exists because so many of us have ended up in places where we've, we've killed ourselves and created. Created an experience where we are just unhappy for something we don't even really want. And, and so let's pivot a little bit though into your, your post-military story. You mentioned that you are in entrepreneurship. Tell us about your business. What is it that you do and, and what does a post FBI life look like? Yeah, so, well, right after the FBI, my wife and I brought in, bought into a franchise business and we, um, scaled it to seven locations in about three years and we sold it. And I had folks like, yo, how did you do that so fast? And I was like. Like this. And they were like, I will pay you to keep having these conversations with me. And so that was about eight years ago. Um, and I've just been helping, uh, executives grow and scale. So when they're entrepreneurs, it's growing and scaling and we've, um. Uh, had some really cool exit stories and some really cool launch stories that we've been a part of. Um, but my jam, the thing that lights me up, the thing that I have big as, you know, big aspirations and big goals, um, uh, but the thing that lights me up on a daily basis that makes it me, that makes me less. That makes my happiness less dependent on reaching my goals, is working with non-traditional executives and helping them make big decisions that truly light them up and fulfill them. Um, and that make the path forward, you know, obvious, make all the little decisions fall right in line because the big decision is so bold and uh, and so enticing. The path forward becomes clear. So I do that through coaching, through speaking and facilitating. And one point that I want to. Ru and like what I've seen in entrepreneurship is they have a bold vision but or a bold, big decision, but they haven't fully committed it to it. And then when a new big, bold opportunity comes along, they pivot to that and then they pivot to the next shiny thing. And so how do you keep people truly committed to this big, bold decision that if they actually want it, how do you help them make sure that they don't get distracted by other good things? Um, one of my mentors once said to me that. I needed to learn how to say no to the good things so that I could say yes to the right things. Um, so how do we keep people from, from squirreling in whatever direction based on what's exciting, sexy, or interesting at the time? So this is, uh, this is such a mind blowing tool that you can use right now. And, um, I am, I'm building out and developing my decide big framework. And so I've been doing these discovery calls with people. To try to see, you know, what is it that makes a difference? And this, uh, I discovered this tactic of how do you, how do you formulate a big decision that is going to hold your attention? And so what you do, I don't like to use the word goals anymore. And suck. Nobody likes goals. goals, they, they do suck. They like, they're, they're side quests and the brain agrees, like the, the brain, a goal has no impact on the brain. A decision on the other hand. It creates commitment, it creates cognitive dissonance in the brain that that must be resolved. And so I don't use goals, uh, I use decisions and, but, so while, but people come to me with goals, right? Like everybody out there has goals right now and isn't thinking about decisions as the thing that we should be striving towards. So take any goal that you have, take all of 'em and uh, just write 'em out and then, um, assess each one. On what I call the happiness scale. If you woke up and this thing was accomplished, scale of one to 10, one being you're regretful and resentful, and 10 being you are over the moon, ecstatic, fulfilled, where would you be? And when I started doing this with people, I found that the average was about a six, six and a half. And so people, you know, write these things down. Like, run a marathon, make $300,000 this year, dah, dah, dah, dah da. And then it's like when you actually, okay, now envision yourself there. How fulfilled are you? Right? And it's like a six or a seven. And so it's like, wait, you're just one or two above neutral, right? You're one or two above neutral off of this thing. And so then what I do is I ask them, okay, well what would turn this from a six into a 10? And then that's when they start saying, well, okay, yeah, if it was, if I had this, this, this as well, right? Or some people, some people are listening and you're like, oh, what? Guess what, Apollo, I just did this and it's a 10 for me. So then what I do when people come in with tens, I say, all right, you've got this goal making X amount of money a year. Let's imagine that next year we get hop back on a call and you made that money. And I go, awesome, happiness. Scale one to 10, one, you're regretful, resentful, 10, you're over the moon, ecstatic. And you're like, I made the money and I'm a two or a three. And I'll say, what would explain you being a two or a three? And then that's when it gets real and people are like, oh, well I guess, okay, if I made that money. I was working more than I do. No. If I was working as much as I do right now, no. If I wasn't working less than I do right now. Right, because then it puts parameters on it like. It is easy to say I wanna make a million dollars, but it's easy to say that I will, and I'm willing to do 75 hour work weeks and never have a vacation and never see my children, and also like have to sell my soul to the devil to make it happen. Exactly, and that's what, when we have goals that are not decisions, they. They're just all floating out there and we don't think about how they can interact with each other, either support each other or conflict with each other. And ideally, we want these things to be supporting each other, right? So like one decision that I make also supports these other decisions to be a present father, to be a good partner to my wife, right? So we want to put all of these things in conversation with each other. And I say that a, a good, big decision. And I have a 4-year-old, you have a three-year-old, right? You say no, seven. Uh, six, six and six and 10. Six and 10. Uh, I remember that age. Well, like then you probably remember the run on sentence, the, and then I went Oh, that still happens to me. Yeah. so for me, that's how you can tell a really solid, big decision is when it feels like a run on sentence. When it's like, yeah, I want to make a million dollars, but I want to do it by working less than I work right now. Building stronger relationships with my family, being a more present father, being healthier, being, and so when we do that. It's like, oh yeah, shoot. That is it. And I've had people on these calls in the last couple of weeks as I've been building this out crying when they read this toddler's run-on sentence of a big decision. And so like you're hitting that limbic. Lizard brain. That's just like, I need that. And then we take it to the prefrontal cortex. Because to your point, all of those things have now become criteria. So now when you're looking at the, the milestones and the activities that you're going to, that you're gonna pursue, and. In service of this big decision that you've made, you now have criteria, oh wait, this one is gonna take me away from my family. Oh wait, this one is gonna compromise my sleep, which is gonna compromise my health, which is gonna compromise my ability to show up. Oh, wait. So when we have this big decision that is a 10, when you look at it, these other things that would be distract. Because what we're wondering with these other distractions is, am I gonna be happier over there? Right. Is that, is that actually my 10? Is this my 10? Exactly. Exactly. So that's how I say, you know, it's, it's not about fighting to stay focused on a thing. It's about creating a decision that is just gonna like, it's gonna light you up and it's gonna become obvious that like, no, that's not my thing because that thing is gonna mess up my family life. No, it's not that thing because that thing's not gonna make enough money. So I am, I've gotta be honest, we are over time, simply because I am loving this conversation. So hopefully our listeners will forgive an extra long episode today. So, uh, honestly, it's so good. I can't, I, I'm dying right now having to end the episode, but thinking of all of the people that you know, that you, that you, uh, actually know, that you aspire to know, that you, you wanna point us to who is leading the charge, who is taking back Monday? Um. Who's taking back Monday? Uh, you know, you, you even prepped me for this question and I was like, oh, this is, this is gonna be hard. Um, but I think that, um, anyone who is, who is leaning in with their full self, so I think about like Simone Biles being this person who has all these habits. And made the decision to like, yo, I'm not competing right now. And then coming back and saying, I'm going to compete. And I'm gonna be, and I'm still gonna be the goat, And I'm still gonna be the go. That's right. So I think, you know, those examples where people are like, I'm gonna go with my 10, and right now my 10 is going back and sitting on the bench and letting this other person step up and take a shot. Um, and so, you know, there are, there are so many of those people and I feel like. You know, PO Post COVID, post George Floyd's murder. We've been exposed to so many people, um, who are just like, you know what, thi I am not in my 10, I'm in a two and now this is what a, this is what a 10 for me looks like. So I think, you know, even as big as Shonda Rimes leaving. A, B, C, and Disney because they wouldn't give her sister passes for Disneyland and now she's crushing it on Netflix. So I, again, like these decisions, I think there's so much power in making a big decision to say, I'm not gonna try to build better habits so I can stay living this three, this two life. I'm gonna, I'm gonna follow my heart. And if someone is, is ready to decide big and they need your help, where can they find you online? Come find me on LinkedIn. It's like my TikTok. I haven't done any dances yet, but I might. Okay, so Dr. Apollo Emeka on, uh, on LinkedIn and I would love to connect with you there and, and get into a conversation. Well, this was a truly incredible conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on taking back Monday. Thank you and thank you all for listening.