Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Exploring the Bonds Between Houndsmen and Their Dogs
What happens when you combine a passion for hunting with the thrill of a tight-knit community? You get an unforgettable journey into the world of hound hunting in Baileyville, Maine, with our guest, Michael Germanis. Michael, a seasoned houndsman and bear hunter, shares his captivating tale of starting with a beagle hunting trip and how it ignited his dedication to hounds. Discover the vibrant social fabric of bear hunting that brings friends and newcomers together, contrasting with the solitude of deer hunting, and listen to heartwarming stories of camaraderie that define this unique culture.
Embark with us on the exciting adventure of training game hounds, as Michael introduces us to Duke and the red bone pups, Gigi and Tawny. Experience the rigorous preparation and skillful maneuvers involved in cat hunting, especially when it comes to the elusive bobcat. Michael shares his insights as a guide who finds joy in facilitating the hunting experiences of others rather than pursuing the game himself. We explore the deep connections forged with these remarkable dogs and the dedication required to excel in this challenging yet rewarding lifestyle.
Wrap up the episode with a deep dive into the strategies and effectiveness of bear hound hunting, as well as the thoughtful selection of firearms and hound breeds. Michael dispels common misconceptions, emphasizing the anticipation and enthusiasm of the dogs themselves. We also explore plans for future hunts, including a spring turkey adventure and potential winter excursions. Whether you're a seasoned hunter or new to the sport, this episode offers a rich tapestry of stories, insights, and the unbreakable bond shared among houndsmen.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
this is hunts on outfitting podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken meyer. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to how to's. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast, all righty. Welcome to hunts on outfitting podcast. We are excited to have you listening in.
Speaker 1:First, a quick sponsor. Are you too busy for the dating scene due to always running your hounds, having a hard time finding someone to put up with your the bays and balls of your prize dogs? Then try huey's hounds. Men and Women's Speed Dating. Bring your hounds to scream and shout. It's what we're all about. All right, anyways.
Speaker 1:Social media it has brought with it a lot of downsides over the past, while as it keeps getting ever more popular. With that, though, a huge plus side is that being able to meet and connect with other like-minded people as yourself has never been easier. That is exactly how I met and became friends with today's great guest. Today we'll be talking about his journey as a houndsman and bear hunter. I would also like to say congratulations to the hunters in Colorado against Proposition 127 for winning. Against that, the hunting of big cats there will remain legal. As us hunters know, predator populations need to be managed.
Speaker 1:Also in this podcast, you will hear two guys named Bill in it. If you are looking for a great hunt in Maine for a variety of animals, you can look up Bill Galipsby of Grand Falls Outfitters and Bill Drzezinski of Hollaback Guide Service. Also, today's guest is on social media Good Old Boys Guide Service on Facebook and Instagram, look him up as well. If you were looking to do some hound hunting for bobcat, for rabbit, for bear and mane and their social media has some great pictures and stuff to look at, all right, let's get to it. For bear in Maine and their social media has some great pictures and stuff to look at. So, all right, let's get to it. Yeah, so, michael Germanis, thanks so much for your uh coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Anytime.
Speaker 1:So, uh, I was going to say how we met. It was neat, you know. So I put a thing on. It was a Maine houndsman. I think it was saying that, uh, you know, if somebody had room, if I could come tag along I'm from new brunswick and we cannot run bears here with hounds if I could, so in maine, if I could come tag along, and, uh, you know, just get to experience it and all that. I remember you'd reached out to me saying, hey, you can come along with us anytime and uh, yeah, it's great, this is my second year going down with you and just you being able to experience what you guys have going on there. The hound culture in Maine is quite strong, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a pretty tight knit. Everyone really knows everyone that hounds hunt pretty much in the whole state, especially when it comes to bear hunting. And yeah, I'm always game for new, new people, especially people that know hounds, sometimes tagging along and having a good time yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1:You know you're, you were really open to it and, uh, very accommodating and all that, and so is everybody that you know you run with and it's just. Yeah, it's great to see. I mean, the hunting culture in a hole is not that big and hounds are even smaller, so it is nice when somebody wants to get into it or see a different kind of it, to just come on in. I find that houndsmen are like that because it is a social sport. I guess you could say you know bear hunting.
Speaker 2:A couple times you came along we had decent little crew of people with us each time and uh, yeah, maine's pretty good about. We have a few uh like hound trials throughout the whole state for bears and stuff that everyone not everyone, but most of the bear hunting community shows up too with their handsounds, and we all have a good time together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's one of my favorite things about the hound hunting is just the social aspect of it and it's not as individual as your deer hunting and things like that. It's like someone like, oh mind, if I come Like, yeah, come on along, the more the merrier usually.
Speaker 2:I love seeing other people's dogs work and stuff, so I'm always game for people to tag along yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, um, I guess we're kind of going off track just slightly ahead of schedule. So, uh, we'll do. You know, tell us er and and how you got into hunting.
Speaker 2:I'm Michael, I'm 26. I'm from Baileyville, maine, a small down east town, and when I was younger I didn't really hunt much. I grew up on a lake, did a whole lot of fishing and no one in my family really hunted. My dad hunted deer every now and then on the weekends and went with a few people running around bird hunting and stuff when I was younger. But uh, when I was 15, a guy I don't remember exactly how it ended up ended up coming up, but a guy, bill dureski, that you hunted with. He invited me out rabbit hunting with eagles and that was a big, big dog.
Speaker 2:I love dogs, dogs are my thing and I couldn't have my family doesn't like dogs, not one bit and uh, so he picked me up one day, took me rabbit hunting with eagles and uh, we were driving home. I'm 15, we're driving home and we drive by this house and he goes uh, I think they have beagle puppies right there. I said, geez, bill, don't tell me that. And uh, later that day I was riding my four wheeler. I ended up blowing it up, pushing up the road to my buddy's house that was a small engine mechanic and sold it to him for 200 bucks and I walked my self down the road to this house that might potentially have beagle puppies, and I walked myself home with a new beagle puppy and, uh, it's been one of them things that you get into it and you're stuck. I couldn't imagine not doing it yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:No, it's interesting. I mean, uh, if anybody listened to this that knows, you would probably never believe that you didn't grow up without dogs, because you know you're surrounded by them now and yeah, oh really into dogs. But yeah, that's neat how you got into it that way and just somebody you know bringing you along and just opening that door yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:All it took was just a little bit of, you know, a little help getting into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So you got into Beagles first, and then you know how did you transition from Beagles to your first big game hand.
Speaker 2:Well, beagles were first. I had one Beagle Sarge there for a while, just him, and I've always liked big dogs, the bigger the better. And uh, I saw a post on facebook a free blue tick coonhound and bill the guy that took me rabbit hunting. He was also a bear hunting guide and he had big hands of his own and uh, so there was this. It was a couple years after, I think I was 17 when I got him. Yeah, I was 17. And uh, guy posted, a male, young male, blue tick for free. I drove myself a couple hours, picked him up and that was the biggest. Once I started on the big dogs, forget anything else. That was all I cared about.
Speaker 1:You were really hooked. Yeah, yep bad, that was what. Yeah, you said he's about nine now.
Speaker 2:Yep nine years ago.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, yeah, and he's still going. Yep, nine years ago, yep, yeah, and he's still going.
Speaker 2:You know, fairly strong too. Definitely no complaints from that dog. He's been through it all with me. I've learned every bit of what I know next to that dog right there.
Speaker 1:His name is Duke. Yeah, no, he's, yeah, he is. He's quite a dog he's. He's tough, really tough, but he, I mean he's a meat dog. Right, you said you know you can take him out coon hunting. He's gonna tree coons he's. He's a pretty good cat dog, which, well, you know, we'll talk about here. It takes a very unique and special kind of dog to be a cat dog. And then you know he's running bears.
Speaker 2:Well, yep, I've hunted everything with that dog. Anything that would leave a track, pretty much I've run it. And uh, coons, bobcats and bears are what he you know that's what we chase the most. And uh, he likes for a while I think bobcats have always been his favorite, but he's always done really good on bear and coons. I pretty much just hunt them on coons just for fun and to train my young dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but definitely a meat dog, yeah, yeah so I mean, now we're talking about that, so you know you, you help guide, you can't you kind of call? It's really neat, you contract out sort of thing for outfitters, uh, to come there and run your dogs, and they hire you. So that way you're not worried about uh when you're guiding, you're not worried about where to keep people or finding the clients and all that, and then as the guide, they're not worried about you know, looking after dogs year-round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the biggest thing is main is to guide bear hunting. You got to have either a lot of land or a lot of leased bait sites through the logging companies and all the leases are taken up. You got to be on a list to get them when they come around, and so I don't have much land or any bait sites, so I pretty much have to contract out to other guide services.
Speaker 1:But it works out pretty good yeah, I remember you tell me about that. I thought that was so, that was so cool. Uh, just hearing about that, you know you're able to just worry about running your dogs and your hounds and all that, and then the outfitter, you know, worries about the rest, and it's a win-win for both parties and your hounds and all that, and then the outfitter worries about the rest and it's a win-win for both parties.
Speaker 2:Yep, it's definitely nice. That's what we do for Bear, at least in the night.
Speaker 1:Do my own rabbits and bobcats Right. So then, when you got Duke, how did you go about training him? You get your first big game hound, but I guess you knew guys that had their own as well. But did you just kind of? Did you run him with the older dogs like you would with beagles or that was uh.
Speaker 2:So when I got duke, uh, he was like eight months old, green as grass, never been hunted a day in his life. And uh, bill, the guy that got me into rabbit hunting, bill Dreske and Bill Gillespie uh, they both had red bone pups out of. They were sisters. The dogs are sisters. You got to hunt with them. Gigi and Tawny, yep, yep, so they're like a month younger than Duke, so they were really good about letting me run with them, and so we pretty much trained those three dogs all together that first season, and so we did all kinds of stuff, from running them with older dogs to just cutting them on bait sites by themselves and seeing what they would do.
Speaker 2:So, that worked out really good having them the same age. Yeah, it worked out pretty perfect, honestly.
Speaker 1:Then you know too. I asked you this when we were going because I mean, you guide, you know, you help guide a lot of bear hunts and all that. And then I asked you I said, if you had to choose, somebody had told you like, look, you're either hunting bear every year or you're hunting cat every year.
Speaker 2:But you can't hunt both. So what would you choose? And you didn't even hesitate, you said cat, oh, cats every day, all day.
Speaker 1:So how?
Speaker 2:come cat hunting. It's one of those things we talked about bear hunting with people and stuff and, um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty uh loner when it comes to I enjoy hunting with a lot of people, but I also enjoy just being by myself and following the dogs through the woods and cat hunting. You don't need a whole, you don't need a lot of people. You know it's one of those hunting that you can do completely by yourself if you want to. And yeah, with the dog and uh, it's but one of the hardest things in my opinion and a lot of people's opinions to hunt with dogs and cats are just so smart that it's just a whole nother. You got to outsmart the cat, you got to have a good dog. A whole lot of factors got to come together to tree a bobcat in Maine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, they say what is it that if your dog can tree a bobcat, it can probably tree anything in North America?
Speaker 2:I was told that if your dog can tree a bobcat in the state of Maine, it can tree any game anywhere in the United States.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that's just so hard.
Speaker 2:I think our woods are so thick, our conditions are kind of crappy and cats are so smart.
Speaker 1:Our conditions are kind of crappy and cats are so smart, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And uh, I mean it takes a special kind of dog too, because I mean any dog that can run cat can probably run bear right.
Speaker 2:But not so much the other way around. In my opinion, if you got a hound, the best chances it's either going to hunt a coon or hunt a bear. Those are, in my opinion, the two easiest. Just the fact of you know they both have quite a bit of scent. And I mean, to be a bear dog really only have to have one or two good ones, and then all you need is pack dogs behind them, and a lot of dogs can make a pack dog right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So and then, speaking about the bear hunting, to remember, you told me this and I was like what really you were saying? You've never shot a bear like you've never intentionally gone out for your own bear never once I uh guide every year we kill about, usually harvest about.
Speaker 2:Since I started, uh, that first year I got duke I started helping guides and uh, you know 30 to 60 every season bears. We harvested over bait and dogs, but uh, I've never, never wanted to kill a bear there. I don't like their meat. Taxidermy is expensive and, uh, you know, maybe one day if just me and my dogs are out and we tree a monster or something or bay a monster up. But until that day comes, I I enjoy watching other people do it, especially people that have never shot a bear.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah, you tell me that I thought that was different, unique. But then the more I got thinking about I thought, you know, as houndsmen, I mean, are we really hunters or are we more houndsmen? First, because I mean I find a lot of guys are like that that you talk to, that are really into it, like we don't. Us shooting something is not the end goal, I mean, unless you're guiding, but we just want to see our dogs or somebody else's dogs work really yep watch them work, one of my favorite things watching a young dog figure it out and turn on and, uh, everything that I hunt.
Speaker 2:I really I could probably go the rest of my life with just training animals and walking away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's yeah, even like with the beagles. I rarely, once in a while, but I don't often shoot the rabbits, unless you know I'm guiding or something. But a lot of times, you know, just letting the dogs run, just seeing how they're doing, just training them, exercising them, you know that's what's all about. The coonhound's a little different. They want blood.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's a little different. They want blood. But uh yeah, just seeing the dogs work and I almost anytime I take my beagles out. Unless, like you said, unless we have clients or something, I don't touch a gun. I just enjoy listening to the beagles run, try and get to a good spot, see the rabbit, the the hair and the beagles cross and my dogs enjoy a little fur in their mouth.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a little different, but yeah, exactly so. I mean, with the hound hunting I was talking about that. There's a lot of misconceptions with it and I'll say this now I met quite a few guys and seen a lot of houndsmen I have yet to see a fat houndsman. I have yet to see a fat houndsman. I mean it's, it's. It's not easy, is it? It sounds easy. You know people here that aren't into it. They're like oh, you just put your dogs on the game.
Speaker 2:They sniff it out, treat it or bait up somewhere, it's whatever, but it's the miles that get put into training a hound or the whole process of getting a good, say, bear pack or a good rabbit dog, a good coon dog. All they usually end up seeing is the finished product. What we've worked for for, you know, years, training puppy, and that's the walking from the truck into a tree or something simple like that, and even that sometimes can be. You get a tree in there seven, 800 yards, sometimes further than that Some people and walk, just walking a pack of dogs out of the woods. If you don't have good handling dogs, that can be quite the experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the picture that I plan on using for your podcast cover, as long as you're okay with it, is that one where you know we'd been out bear hunting all day and Duke wasn't moving. His collar was showing that he wasn't moving. So you're like I'm going to have to go and get him. And then you know how you and I the guy that had the key to the gate wouldn't come out, so we had to walk what is it? Two miles on just this old road, and then from there it's another what? Half a mile or more through the woods to get to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was two miles down the dirt and then 800 yards off the end of the dirt, down through the woods, across that heath and that stream yeah, yeah it was quite the walk.
Speaker 1:It was, it was, and then we got him and then duke ended up having was it a broken ankle?
Speaker 2:I don't think he ended up breaking anything. He uh ended up coming out of it a few days later, but he couldn't put any pressure on his front right paw.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, no, yeah, because when we got him you weren't sure, but yeah, he couldn't put any weight on it at all. No, and then we were coming out and we were going through. When I took your picture it was going through that swamp basically and you know Duke's, he's a pretty large hound he's uh what, 90 pounds, 85 to 90 yeah, yeah, 85 to 90.
Speaker 1:I remember you coming out and I was like, can I take your picture? And you're like, yeah, sure, and I took it and I was like, there's, you know, there's a picture that that's a good representation of being a houndsman. You know what? You carried him on your shoulders out and we were going up and down and then through the woods and all that. And I remember you. You never complained once, not once, because I yeah, people that aren't into it and then have these misconceptions about it, you know, think that you know mistreat dogs and this and that they don't realize like these dogs mean the world to us. And you were, you know, caring about and not one complaint, not never thought twice about it.
Speaker 2:You know that's your dog, you're getting them out yeah, I do a lot for my dogs, especially that dog, that dog right there's me and him been through it all together and he puts his heart and soul into every hunt and the least I can do is carry him out of the woods a little bit when he's hurt and you. He's getting up there in age now. He deserves a little piggyback, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was cool just seeing that when I asked to take a picture, that's Hansman, whatever the dogs need got it. Just the amount of hard work. People think it's easy. Yeah, it's not, it's. It's not an easy hunt at all. I mean there's easier days, but the lifestyle itself is uh, you know there's a lot of work every day you gotta.
Speaker 2:You gotta feed and take care of them, whether you're hungry or not. A lot of people don't see that part of it either.
Speaker 1:No, or the vet bill. Sometimes you said that Duke's had a couple visits.
Speaker 2:Duke for a few years there. He was a regular at the emergency vet. I used to have a pretty gritty pack of plots. Yeah, we had some pretty wild vet bills there a few years yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, what were you saying too in in your, in maine, or in your area at least that once bear season starts, the vets they don't take any new clients because they're they're prepared and have schedules open for the bear hounds?
Speaker 2:Here. Usually there's a couple emergency vets that are, you know. They know come bear season that it's going to happen. Someone's going to end up in there and you know, for anything it could be a dog getting into quills, like we had happen that day, yeah, yeah, or bears tearing dogs up and, uh, this year in particular, a lot, a lot of that made posts and notified a lot of people that they were not taking emergency uh or any new clients, no emergencies. You had to be a client on their list and they would have you know. If you were on their list already, you could get in, but if you weren't, you're SOL.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even for the bear hound. So yeah, it's tough, but it's good that you know that some of the vets are prepared for that and realize that it's part of the job, I guess, and ready and willing to help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of the emergency vets they get it. They're really good and they know that it's part of it and it happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the dogs live for it. So I mean somebody listening to this that's never done it before or anything they're thinking like, yeah, you guys just send them after bears and you know they're getting all tore up, but I mean, you know the dogs live for it. No hound I've ever seen that hunts would ever be forced to hunt. The hounds force us to hunt, if anything really.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of things you can make a dog do. You can't make a dog hunt, no. And a dog like Duke? You walk out in the morning, all my dogs. They even hear the jingle of a collar or see a collar in my hand. You'd be scared to see the look on their face when you pull out of the driveway without them. That's what they live for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean somebody listening to this not knowing how a bear hound hunt works. I mean, how often is it that the dogs do get tore up? I mean, it's not every time they go out. The dogs live for it, it's part of it. But you're not sending them into certain death by any means.
Speaker 2:I'm not. This year I didn't have a single dog. No one that I hunted with either this year ended up with any dogs hurt. I know one buddy that had a dog hurt this year uh, two buddies that had dogs hurt this year. But I mean, it's one of those things. Last year I had a couple of dogs get a couple of small cuts, but it's not, it's definitely not. You know, it's one of them. Things that maybe once, twice a year, depending on the dogs certain dogs they aren't scared of much.
Speaker 1:And some dogs will never get touched by a bear, right, it's just, you know just all individual dogs and stuff, but I mean it's not, it's not, it's definitely not.
Speaker 2:No, it's definitely not an every time. A lot of times it's not even an every year. It's not a yearly thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean most bears. You know they do want to just get away from the dog and go up a tree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of the time. Most of the time dogs get hurt is when you know maybe a bad place shot or something a wounded bear. That's usually when accidents happen and dogs get hurt, but it's not very often.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah. So I mean with the uh, the bear hounds too. Some people, like you, know why use hounds at all. But I mean it's been proven there's no single method more effective in controlling predator populations than using hounds. And I mean you guys too. We have, we can bait here in New Brunswick. But I mean some bears are smart. They only come into the bait at night, that's it. They're only going to come in at night, you're not going to see them during the day.
Speaker 2:But I mean with the hounds, you have a chance of going after those bears. Yeah, bears are definitely, uh, you know, more nocturnal animal than they are diurnal. And, uh, they that hunting over bait. It's one of those things that you can try just about every trick in the book. If a bear doesn't want to come out in the daylight, it's not going to. And if you look at the statistics on all the bigger bears the smart bears, those are the ones that get killed by hounds. Bears, the smart bears, those are the ones that get killed by hounds. And it's usually the smaller bears that are killed over bait because they're trying to get there earlier, before the bigger bears come in right they're trying to get it in a snack before them, big bears move in and push them off yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean because some people like, well, why use hands? I mean, the main woods is like here in new Brunswick, it's so thick and dense you are not going to spot and stalk those guys and then, like we were talking about, with the bait, your big smart ones, they're not going to come into it a lot of the time. So I mean hounds are they're, I think, necessary really in trying to hunt them and control the population, because there is no shortage of bears definitely not, and the bears are very, very.
Speaker 2:People don't believe it when you say it, but you're sitting on a bait site. 98 percent of the time you're not even gonna hear that bear come in. Yeah, you're just gonna look up and it's gonna be sitting on the bait in front of you. You might catch a glimpse of them out, you know off to your left or something off to your right, but you never hear them walk in and they're just such silent, warry, elusive creatures that it's almost impossible to spot and stalk.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. I mean sorry.
Speaker 2:Oh, bait hunting's, you know a little bit more of a chance, but in my opinion hound hunting is the only effective way to hunt bear Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I agree.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, like you said, them coming in, you're better off hearing a squirrel or a deer, you know, coming into the bait than you ever would a bear we have a lot of uh clients that come up from down southern states, ohio, stuff like that big deer hunters, and uh, they're always telling me how the I don't do much deer hunting. So, uh, they always tell me how the I don't do much deer hunting. So they always tell me how like blue jays and stuff will tell on a deer when it walks in. And here it's the complete opposite. If you're sitting in a bait, it's when the squirrels and the birds go silent, that's when the bears walk in.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, speaking of clients and all that. So you are good old boys guide service and then you work a lot with the two bills, with the holler back guide service. So if somebody's, you know, looking to do a bear hunt, don't know what to expect and all that, but they're interested in it, could you kind of walk us through I, I know how, but you know really well, kind of a typical I mean, how's the day starting, how's the bear hunt starting? Wake up in the morning.
Speaker 2:On a hound hunt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on a hound hunt.
Speaker 2:On a hound hunt. We're up usually before daylight, usually five-ish these days. Check your cell cams, see what's going on. Just check your cell cams, see what's going on. We uh, we usually meet up with our clients and if I'm hunting with bill and bill, we meet up at the local gas station. Everyone grabs a coffee and snacks, whatever you want for the day. We uh, load up, get the. I usually have my collars on and stuff, but some people throw their collars on them. When we get there and tracking collars and we decide what you know, if we got a picture on a cell cam, we decide what bait we're going to go to. If not, we go check cameras on other baits and head out to our bait sites. We can't cut dogs loose until legal shooting hours, so we usually have a little time to spare there in the mornings, yeah, and we decide what bait we're headed to. We go to that bait and cut dogs loose and the hunt's on.
Speaker 1:That's right. And so I mean how you start off too. You guys usually take out your best cold-nosed dogs and get them out where the bear was at the bait, and then once they get kind of, I find it it's neat. It's like a diesel engine starting. You know you'll hear some squeaks out of them. They're trying, they're trying, and then all of a sudden they'll start lighting up a bit more, and then you're like all right, they've got the scent going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely With. You know, go to a bait site. You want to pick your best. Start dogs usually only one or two, Some people like a couple, more than that, maybe three, but uh, cut them loose on the bait and you know every dog, most dogs. You can kind of tell what they're doing, so it's fun to. But just by the sound of their voices it's fun to sit there and listen to them on the start and you can say, oh, yep, still cold trailing there. Oh, I think they just got a jump. And me, bill and Bill, our dogs, they're pretty. They are really good at telling us what they're doing with their different tones of voices and they get it up and moving.
Speaker 2:Those are usually your older dogs, dogs. They're veteran dogs. They know what they're doing but can get a little tired. So, first chance we get, if we either have to cut them through the woods just to the sound of them, or if they cross the road, we'll get to it and we'll put in young dogs, put some speed in there, sometimes pick up the old dogs, depending on what you got out there and what's going on that day. But uh, here in maine you can only have uh six dogs on the ground for each, each bear that you're chasing. So say you cut two at the bait site to start it. You can only pack in four dogs after that, or you can pick up your say two that were in there and pack six in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean, how long somebody's wondering you know, how long does a typical bear hunt with hounds last? I mean, I know it varies, but what would you say on average?
Speaker 2:That's one of my favorite things about bear hunting is, you never know. It's always different. Every chase is so different, but I'd say on an average probably seven to 10 miles the dogs are putting on. Had some that have been up in the 25, 26-mile chases picking tired dogs up, packing new dogs in, but usually it's I'd say 7, seven to ten miles a couple hours, two, two to four hours. Usually I'd say from cut time to you're walking into a tree or a bay up or whatever might have happened that day yeah, because I mean the bears have, they've got pretty decent stamina on them eh it's pretty crazy to think about how, you know, come hound season, a lot of our bears have two, three, sometimes even more inches of fat on them and they can still.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we got outrun both days that you come up and hunted with us. This year, yeah, some of them bears can just run all day long oh, it's crazy, because the cat hunting that you do, that's so much.
Speaker 1:If the cats, it's so much more different where they are, what they're? Sprinters really. They're not marathon runners. They're going quick but not for long distance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, usually in a cat chase most of it's. I've heard the same with mountain lions. Most of the chase is the cold trail. As long as with bobcats, as long as you have a smart dog that's not going to make too many mistakes and stays close on that cat, if you got especially if you you got good snow, they definitely ain't going too far right.
Speaker 1:And then the bear you know you're they, they can go. I know it's surprising for the size of them, but I mean you've seen two where the bears they're not even running or anything, they're just walking. The dogs are just kind of around them, you know, trying to put some pressure on for it to tree, but sometimes the bears just they really don't care no, I chased a sow bear a few years ago.
Speaker 2:A youth hunter ended up harvesting her, but she was 230 pounds and she walked for 19 miles, didn't care that the dog was within reach of her the whole time that's crazy, just does not care.
Speaker 1:No, it was. Uh, it was interesting. So the day before I got down, we were talking with the bills and their hunters that they had in from ohio. Uh, wayne and shane, they, uh, they were saying that, um, they'd shot the bear and you know it died, but it got stuck in the tree. It just like collapsed right in the branches and was held up, so they had to cut the tree down in order to retrieve the bear. How common is that? Does that happen much?
Speaker 2:It depends. Usually it doesn't happen a whole lot. This year it happened on two different occasions but sometimes they're sitting in the crotch of a tree or just fall the right place the right time. They end up stuck. The uh. The first one that happened to this year was in the crotch of like a big yellow birch tree and, uh, he got stuck in the crotch of it and we cut the tree down, the tree fell and it it fell a good, I'd say, 40 feet and got caught up on a bird tree and the bear was still stuck in the crotch of that tree. All that and the big fetch up and it still was stuck right there in that tree, just dead as a doorknob.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, that's crazy. You put a headshot on or something and they don't move far, and if they're in the crotch, they just fall into the crotch and get stuck, or on a couple good branches and get stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well then, speaking about that too. So somebody's coming down on a bear hunt with you guys and they're like, well, you know, what should I bring for a rifle? What are you suggesting to them?
Speaker 2:Your little larger .308, .30-06, all those are great rounds. The biggest thing is you really don't want to scope. If you're going on a bear hunt with hounds, you don't want to scope, because if you have to walk into it and get bait up on the ground that can be dangerous for the dogs because you're zoomed in on a scope and it's not always the easiest to see right. Or if you have an opportunity to shoot one crossing the road hard with a scope and you know if they end up treed, they're usually only oh, at the most 50 feet off the ground usually, so it's not a far shot. So you don't need a scope and so really anything with just iron sights and something that's going to leave a decent hole.
Speaker 1:Just to really. I mean because bears don't the right shot placement. I mean they're, they're going down oh for sure.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know I had. I've had clients say that. You know people told them they can't use a, can't use a 270, can't use a 243. In my opinion, are those the best rounds for a bear? No, but they had a client this year dropped a bear rate on the date site with a 270 and it's 100 shot placement. The biggest thing. If you're hunting over bait for a bear, you want a round that's going to leave a hole, because bears have so much fat that when you shoot them, if they don't drop right there, that fat will fill that hole and they won't leave a blood trail until there's too much blood and then it starts coming out. But it can make for really hard blood tracking. Their fur absorbs so much blood too.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, I mean there's. I've seen guys, yeah, shoot bears, put quite a devastating shot into them, but they still go a little, a little ways and like, as far as trying to track blood, yeah, it's, sometimes it's next to impossible the way they clawed up yeah, it can be really hard.
Speaker 2:A lot of times you got to look at like trees, see if on the side of the trees that they rub it up against it, because they're first holding all that blood there and the only way you can see it is when they rub up against something right, right, yeah, yeah, that, yeah that's, but the only way sometimes.
Speaker 1:Um. So there's gonna be some houndsmen listening to this and they're probably curious what are you running for your pack of dogs? I know you've had a lot of different dogs and you've hunted with a lot of different breeds, but I mean, what is your preferred breed and what are you running for your pack of dogs? I know you've had a lot of different dogs and you've hunted with a lot of different breeds, but I mean, what is your preferred breed and what are you running with now?
Speaker 2:My go-to is a good old blue tick that right there is a hard voice to beat. All my blue ticks are kind of old-fashioned AKC looking long-eared houndy hounds. I got right now I have Duke, who's a blue tick. I got Daisy, my female. She was on puppies when you were up here. She's a blue tick. I picked up a young male about a week ago, actually A year old male blue tick. Looks just like Duke pretty much. Then I got Trigger. He's a three-quarter walker, quarter blue tick. He's quite the dog. But I used to have quite a few plots. Plots are a hard. You get a good plot can be a hard dog to beat. A lot of people really like walkers around here and English have actually become big bear dogs up here the last couple years. In my opinion the best, I think, overall dog if you get a good blue tick, walker cross or a good plot.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with the blue tick walker cross. That's my female, Greta, and she's yeah, she's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good mix and I'm 100% not a walker guy everyone running around out there with their overgrown beagles, you know. But uh, I'll admit, a good walker.
Speaker 1:Blue tick cross is a hard dog to beat yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I second that 100 is funny. I remember we were out and your friend jackson has the plots. We were going out and then I remember Duke kind of lit up and then you just looked at me like the day a plot has that kind of voice is when I'll get another one. Yeah, you just can't beat it.
Speaker 2:Plots are good dogs, but you don't ever find a plot with a voice like Blue Tick yeah, that big deep. You don't ever find a plot with a voice like Blue Tick yeah, yeah, that big deep ball. It's a hard thing to beat, especially in you know coon hunting side of it. You're sitting in the base of a coon tree in the dead, silent night in the Maine woods listening to a big Blue Tick ball. That right, there is a hard thing to beat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that just keeps you coming back for more.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's been great. I mean I remember when we went to Bill's his camp there and there's the hunters down, and then I remember Wayne from Ohio that was down you guys had guided him to and he got a nice bear. He was saying, you know, we just ran there all talking hounds. And here I am from New Brunswick, canada, they're from Ohio, you're from Maine, we're just everyone just nonstop talking, just talking dogs. And he said isn't it neat how people from all over and all around were sitting around this fire and just endless stories and conversation, just us all passionate, you know, talking dogs.
Speaker 2:A couple of hounds been together talking about dogs and you can be in for a long conversation. A lot of good stories, yeah no, it's just great.
Speaker 1:I find that, uh, you know there's hunting and then there's the houndsman world and it's just uh, it's just really neat, it's really uh, it's a small world really and it's almost like, uh, like a brotherhood or something, I guess.
Speaker 2:It is. You look at it like the hounds don't stick together. Then you got the bird doggers. They have their own kind of same type group. But you can put any group of people that have hunting dogs. It doesn't matter what they hunt, If they have hunting dogs or working dogs, you chances are you can sit down and have a pretty solid conversation with a group of people about any kind of working dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, exactly yeah, I mean it's just yeah, just dog a dogman to dog. Yeah, oh, exactly yeah, I mean it's just yeah, just dog, a dogman to dogman. You know and just appreciate your, I know you're same way as me and a dogman is. I just love any, any working dog, whether it's a, you know, a collie herding or a police dog, or you know, just love talking working dogs in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got you know, I got my Corsos there. Yeah, Working dogs, but I don't really work them, but any working dog in my opinion. I don't know if I told you this when I was here or when you were here, but my overall goal bucket list before I die is I want to hunt everything that you can possibly hunt with a hound.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you did that, that's cool yeah, I don't even care about killing them, I just want to be there and experience every aspect of dog hunting yeah, yeah, no, I remember you saying that and I was like yeah, that's, that's a great bucket list, right there.
Speaker 1:Be a good dog yeah yeah, well, I'm sure you'll be able to do it.
Speaker 2:You've hunted quite a bit already, Done a few I'd like to. Next big one's going to be. I got to go hog hunting again. Yeah, With dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I definitely want to try that as well. I've been on the hog hunt, but not with dogs. Yeah, I definitely want to try that as well. I've been on the hog hunt, but not with dogs.
Speaker 2:But you, you did a little bit in florida before right I did a little bit, went out with a guy, just uh, it was like a half day hunt. We only ended up finding one small 15 pound hog, but uh, yeah, it was still a good time, though, watching them dogs work, but I definitely got to do it again and a little more action next time hopefully.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, well, mike, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast. My turkey call is in the mail, it's on its way to me because I'm going to be practicing it, because I'm going to be doing the turkey hunt with you this spring. Really looking forward to that. And yeah, I said it's been great coming down. You guys are an awesome bunch to hang out with. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Anytime Looking forward to the spring.
Speaker 1:I'm going to practice. I'm going to be practicing all winter with my calling. Hopefully there's definitely turkeys down there.
Speaker 2:Might have to get you down here this winter. We'll do some rabbit hunting and some cat hunting together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was kind of thinking that. I was kind of thinking that actually, yeah, yeah, A couple free days again and come down. Yeah, yeah, I should. I should come down for the cat thing, just where. This is my first winter that I'm really going to try to hammer down with the hounds and and see if we can get one. So should, uh, should, come down for some learning.
Speaker 2:For sure You're welcome Anytime. Oh, thanks.