Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Retrievers And Rapids: Waterfowl Hunting With John Wagner
The social heart of waterfowl hunting beats throughout this conversation with passionate duck hunter John Wagner from Fredericton, New Brunswick. With over two decades of experience chasing birds across the Maritimes, John shares why the camaraderie of duck hunting keeps him coming back season after season.
At the center of our discussion is Knox, John's remarkable 10-year-old Chesapeake Bay Retriever. This isn't your average hunting dog story - John takes us deep into the fascinating history and unique temperament of "Chessies," a breed with origins in 19th-century market hunting. Unlike their Labrador cousins, these powerful retrievers bring an independent, headstrong nature to the blind that requires experienced handling but delivers extraordinary results in the field.
The stories John shares about Knox's abilities are nothing short of legendary - navigating class three rapids, breaking ice, and finding ducks in seemingly impossible locations. We explore the profound partnership between hunter and dog, with John emphasizing how proper training creates an unbeatable team. In one particularly memorable season, Knox's remarkable nose and determination meant they didn't lose a single duck.
Our conversation takes unexpected turns, from the shocking account of a hunting dog attacked by a great white shark during a sea duck retrieval to practical advice about shotgun selection and ammunition choices for new waterfowl hunters. John's enthusiasm for getting newcomers into the sport shines through as he discusses his experiences guiding soldiers and youth hunters on their first duck hunts.
Whether you're a seasoned waterfowl hunter, interested in working dogs, or simply appreciate authentic outdoor stories, this episode captures the essence of what makes the heritage of duck hunting so enduring. Listen in and discover why, as John puts it, "When you've got a tornado of birds coming on top of you, there's nothing like it."
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this is hunts on outfitting podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken marr. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to howos. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, we are happy to have you listening in on this week's podcast. New podcasts are put out every single Tuesday.
Speaker 1:This week we are talking to a very passionate waterfowl hunter, john Wagner. He talks about gear, about some past hunts that stick out, and tells us all about his right-hand man, his Chesapeake Bay Retriever. Now I learned a lot about this dog. I can kind of compare them to the labs. They're not the same at all. John's going to tell us all about them. We have a great chat, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1:We're talking about a very hard-working dog in this episode and to keep him going, he eats Anukshuk dog food All right. So for all breeds and levels of activity, anukshuk has a blend to keep your canine companion healthy and happy all the time. Just check them out on their website. You go on there on Anukshuk and type in your address. It's going to show you a reseller near you and that's how you can find where to get the dog food. They're not in big box stores, so they can keep the price low. There's no middleman. If you want to reach out and contact us, you can find us on Facebook, hunts on Outfitting, or email, huntsonoutfitting at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:All right, let's talk to John. Yeah so, john, thanks at gmailcom. All right, let's talk to john. Yeah so, john, thanks for uh coming on the podcast I had. We had a mutual friend, chris palmer, shout out uh that he messaged me and he's like you know. He said you talk to this guy, he's right into hunting, he's into, uh, hunting dogs and all that he said it'd be worth having on. So I was like, yeah, sure, I love talking hunting with absolutely anybody. So, yeah, we had a good chat last night and so you're up in what area of New Brunswick, canada?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Fredericton, and I'm pretty much everywhere around here Top of the province south and a bit in Nova Scotia at my cottage and PEI from time to time, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're a bit of a traveler, so you're a hardcore waterfowl guy. But what was your start into hunting is that? What got you going was waterfowl or you, you know, started off with squirrels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of uh, I used to kind of work for a summer camp so I guided a bit of uh canoe and that kind of stuff so I would run, run rivers and that kind of stuff. So I got into fishing and love that kind of aspect of the outdoors. And then I love being on the water and waterfowl was a big one for me. Um, I got into uh, bow hunting as a team kind of thing, loved being in the woods, but uh, it's a bit of a grind and a lot of mistakes. And I kind of like the social aspect being out with friends and uh, yeah, I've been kind of into golf my whole life so I find waterfalls almost like golf. You're out there with three or four buddies, you can have a good time, hang out and uh, work the birds and yeah, that was kind of the one that really made me obsessed.
Speaker 1:I would say, um, yeah, and then I guess it went from there and then into dogs and the rest of it okay, yeah, well, anyone that's listened to this podcast before knows like I'm a huge fan of the small game hunting, just because of the like you're saying, the social aspect of it. I like being able to share and enjoy it with as many people as you know you can bring along, and you know the big game stuff's a lot more individualism. So, yeah, no, I like that and I don't like being bored. You know you can bring along and, uh, you know the big game stuff's a lot more individualism. So, uh, yeah, no, I like that and I don't like being bored. Uh, I don't like sitting still or being quiet for very long, so yeah, yeah, that's, that's definitely it.
Speaker 2:And I, I I kind of like being out on the water like there's been hunts in my life when you know we're well, let's go, try this river. We'll launch canoes at 4 am and paddle down in the dark and headlamps and that kind of stuff. It's really quiet. And then you get in there and then all of a sudden the birds are buzzing and the calls are going and it becomes mayhem quick. I think waterfowl is definitely the way to go. Um, I've done a fair amount of field hunts, but I think ducks on the water or marshes is definitely the one for me. But yeah, it's, it's next level, yeah, it's fun yeah, no, I, absolutely I agree with that.
Speaker 1:I got most of my buddies are really into the uh, the goose hunting and the cornfields and stuff and the layout blinds, which is fun. But I yeah, I don't know, just having ducks just come buzzing into a pond, you know, in the evening, early morning, and like I, I do like the water and just the ducks, like they're a little quicker, and all that, and you know faster shots and I like that absolutely and like, yeah, I guess I started once.
Speaker 2:I was kind of got into it. Uh, friend's dad who recently just passed away, rip um, had a eulogy at his funeral, actually just two days ago. He kind of got us obsessed with it and it was really cool. It was almost like, uh, opening day, duck hunting was christmas. You know, we would we go down to a place around gaugetown, um, every house just kind of around us would have kind of like get togethers.
Speaker 2:Everyone would be prepping decoys and you know, dogs would be walking around your feet and that kind of stuff, and everyone would get together, have a couple, and then in the morning we'd have a big breakfast at one of his friend's house, a doctor I guess. So we'd all kind of hang out and talk about our plan and then all the boats we'd launch off in the morning and go to our blinds. Yeah, I've been doing that since I was like I don't know, 17 maybe, so over 20 years for me, and uh, yeah, I don't think I've missed the morning. So we've always done that and it's really cool going out everyone together and wish each other luck and you come back after a good hunt and everybody has their stories. We're all plucking birds and I guess that was always. It was like a big tradition.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was really fun yeah, just the uh, the camaraderie sort of speak, you know, of duck camp and everything, yeah, it's, it's awesome. That's it's not always the killing, it's just, like you said, just the atmosphere and the tradition of it and all that and yeah, it's awesome. Are you a big duck eater?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Some guys know I like it but yeah, I mean I've been doing it for so long that I've figured out some ways that it's. Yeah, there's definitely a taste to it. I mean, I've heard people say I wish ducks were the same as partridge, but if they were then everybody would be duck hunting. But yeah, what I do really depends. But slow cook, throw them in the slow cooker, add a bunch of spices, that kind of stuff, slice it thin. You can kind of make sandwiches and that kind of stuff with it or whatever. Um, but if you mix it with, you know, you can do sausage and that kind of stuff. And I mean I, I eat everything I shoot. So I, I don't think I could ever do that, but you know, I, yeah, duck meat's a bit different, for sure I like it a it a lot.
Speaker 1:I usually just, you know breast it, cut it up into pieces and then put some butter on a pan, you know on the frying pan, and then just put it on there in little you know bite-sized pieces and cook it up like that and just eat it like that even.
Speaker 2:Yep, and what we do is like opening day. What we do is throw all our duck breast in there. Even the old guy we used to go with, he used to just pluck it right in the blind whenever there'd be a lull and we'd throw it all into a sink with salt and I found it took a little bit of the gamey taste out.
Speaker 1:I was gonna ask that, yeah, if you did that yeah, yeah and uh, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I find if you just add it with stir fries and all sorts of stuff, it's fine, it's yeah. And some days you're like it, it depends, like I don't know. There's guys that I've hunted with and they're like, oh, blue wind keel is the best, or whatever wood wood can be you know the best, or whatever. But it is funny. Sometimes you you'll hunt and you'll get a mallard that's been eating corn for a long time and you're like, oh, this tastes totally different than the one we just had down river early in the season. So it was on the uh, the city lagoon?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, this one tastes a little shitty. Um, yeah, but yeah, I was going to ask that. If you did that about the um. You Um, yeah, but yeah, I was going to ask that. If you did that about the? Um, you know, put them in salt water. Some guys do that to take, you know, like the wild taste out of it. I like the wild taste personally, but, um, I know a lot of people do that. It helps with the blood sometimes too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, yeah. And then, uh, yeah, I don't know Pretty much after that. Like, I got pretty hardcore into it and, uh, love just like getting out with different people. Um, hunting, hunting spots all over the maritimes is fun because there's just so many different ways to hunt. I find like depends on you know, you find a certain pond, you find certain marshes that are working well. Um, I mean, it goes like waterfowl is a scouting game, so as long as you and your buddies can find a certain spot where birds are going, that's the trick. Definitely don't go in blind. But yeah, we got pretty into it.
Speaker 2:And then I got into guiding here and there. So I was guiding I work at CFB Gage Town, so I would take out soldiers from time to time and we hung out in like Majorville and different spots and yeah, it's fun just to get guys out. I got guys that I took out 15 years ago and now they're obsessed and they've got dogs and you know it's it's good to spread the community and DU dinners, delta waterfowl, it's all good. Yeah, like anything, you just try and keep the sport alive and get the younger, next generation in. I've taken, I've done three or four heritage waterfowl hunts. So I've taken kids out and that's always been fun. Um, taking them out and boats and stuff and just I don't know seeing them shoot their first ducks.
Speaker 1:It's obviously pretty awesome oh yeah, exactly, just yeah, growing. The more people you get into it, the more of a voice we have for, you know, combating, uh the antis and stuff like that. So it's always good to get more people into it. So have you taken a lot of people out that have never done it before and, uh, what do you tell them for shooting and stuff? Are they getting frustrated or they just kind of, oh okay, well, that's interesting how it works and yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:I mean. I find people are just blown away. Uh, once you start working ducks, that's the big one is uh them seeing actually ducks fly over, and then you just start working it with a call and then they start dive bombing in on you and uh, just kind of the teamwork that you've got between guys in the blind, kind of yelling back and forth what's going on and dogs going, and yeah, it's pretty cool yeah oh yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:speaking about the dogs, you've you've got one, but what got you into the dog? You're hunting the you know waterfowl and all that, and then you're like you know what I what I need a little extra help, was that it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think almost it's like an ethical thing. I've dropped ducks as a younger hunter and you're looking and you're looking, and I think you almost should have a dog in most of the places that you hunt. You'd drop a bird anywhere and all we can use as humans is our eyes where dogs their scent is insanity. So I think we should have dogs in every blind almost. Um, I mean, unless you're dropping them right out in front of you in the water, I think everybody should have a dog or at least have one in the blind. But, um, I find that and obviously I grew up I had like a duck toller a little bit, and friends that had labs around and stuff and I thought they were always pretty cool. But I had one friend. He had a Chessie and I was just like wow, that's like next level, that thing's insanity. So I don't know, I might have bit off more than I should have, but the first dog I've ever had was, yeah, I I got a chesse. He's 10 now and uh, he's been insane.
Speaker 2:Um, I kind of went full bore. I, I was in my 20s, I didn't have kids or anything yet, so I just I didn't have kids or anything yet. So I just trained him up and I joined Sunpoke Waterfowl Retriever Club here and even through the winter I would work with Derek and different guys on forest fetch and all the appropriate things that you should do. I got him kind of trained up to senior hunt tests and did that kind of stuff. But mostly it was about just having a really really good hunting dog.
Speaker 2:I didn't care so much about, you know, getting him all his titles. It was just I wanted him to be insane and be able to do can signals, whistles, um, the kind of stuff that you should have when you're out in the marsh. So you know, there's been. There's been times when he was like in his absolute prime, probably age I don't know, six or seven, I don't think we lost the duck for two seasons. He was just, he was bang on and his nose was crazy. But yeah, chesties they're something. I wouldn't recommend them on everybody, but I do love Chessies. My next dog, I mean. I've already got a down payment on one, so so that's what you're sticking with.
Speaker 1:So it's the full name. It's the Chesapeake Chesapeake Bay Retriever.
Speaker 2:Chesapeake Bay Retriever. So yeah, their heritage, it's a pretty cool story. So they were down in Chesapeake Bay. It was during when they used to actually shoot waterfowl for the market down there. So this would have been 200 some years ago and actually they would sell the birds that they would shoot obviously to restaurants and whatever and to markets and that kind of stuff. So how it worked was it was so the story goes.
Speaker 2:A ship wreck happened down chesapeake bay. It was two newfoundlanders, I believe, and or they called them newfoundland water dogs at that time and they took those dogs. Once the shipwreck happened and you know, obviously people down chesapeake bay, they were like, holy, these dogs are crazy, let's mix them with some of our upland dogs and they made this kind of breed. So yeah, chessies are insane. Um, so they just like use those for waterfowl for years there and they've got like a bigger, harder chest, which, so they say, is like Actually to break ice and they're super rugged, their coats. Water just like Runs off them like I don't know, knocks a shake and he'd just Be dry in one second. He fights waves Like no other dog I've ever seen and like their mouth and head is kind of big.
Speaker 2:Um, they're a solid dog. You got to be careful. Um, I mean, out of nox's litter, nox is perfect size, he's like 75, 80. I've kept him lean on a nook, shook and stuff, but uh, shout out there. Yeah, there's one dog in his litter that was like one 10 and I was like that's a good dog, yeah, but yeah, but I mean, they're good for geese, they're good for anything. Um, I've hunted him in like almost class two, three rapids. We were just dropping ducks right into the rapids and he would just jump off the bank and jump in. And I've hunted him over ice. Um, yeah, they're, they're next level, but uh, yeah, I wouldn't call them them exactly the family dog that some people want or a waterfowl dog.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I always tell people like I came back from what was it a month in Hawaii and was excited to see my dog and he picked him up at the tunnel and he ran right past me for a ball. So, like you know, he loves me, but it's not like an obsession, like a lot of dogs, he's just all he thinks about I think all day is ducks or a ball. But whatever, he's a working dog yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I like when we were talking last night, you're saying, saying, edwin, I always kind of compared them to, you know, like labs, but they're quite different than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're super headstrong and actually, yeah, one of the other crazy stories about them is like when they were bred to be down there in Chesapeake Bay and be at the markets is they were actually. It's a new family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they would leave them on their boats and protect the boats with their ducks in it, while the boys would be in the pubs or at the market or whatever. So they were a bit of a guard dog too. So you do have to be a little careful with them. Like a lot of people, older guys, that I've hunched with, they're like jeez, you have a chessy, like will he bite me? Or like those are headstrong dogs and stuff. And I made sure like I socialized the shit out of them, like I had them around kids and people and other dogs early on, because I knew there was that chance. But I think if you like had one at your house and you kept them away from people and dogs, they could be a little standoffish, like he's. He's been a bit of a guard dog for me a couple of times in certain situations, like his bark and he's he's not happy when people show up on an ounce at night.
Speaker 1:We'll put it that way well, I mean, you know that's handy, but uh, yeah, I just don't. I've not ever, never really been around one. So, like I said, I thought they're like a lab, but they're, they're definitely not. That's neat. And you're the thing, too you're saying about they're bigger chested and that they thought you know that's used for breaking ice. That's uh, that's pretty cool, that's unique for breaking ice.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool, that's unique, yeah yeah. And like he's solid, like I sometimes forget, I'll be hanging out with a buddy's lab and a smaller lab and I'll just bang it on the chest and be like, hey, buddy and you know, kind of like knock the dog over and I just forget how. You know, like Knox is just next level, he's just like pure muscle.
Speaker 1:He looks like I feed him creatine and steroids but yeah, well, I mean it helps for duck season, right?
Speaker 2:yeah and uh. The good thing too about him is like I've hunted him right into january, like last day. I've never been nervous of him being cold or anything in the blind, like he's just tough as nails.
Speaker 1:Well, tell us about that day. You said what was it? Was it a six or seven man limit? And he was working it and didn't miss a duck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, he's, he's just and he vibrates in the blinds Like boys, just. I mean, like a lot of waterfowl guys have seen it. But to see a dog that they're so committed and you like you can't even really touch him in the blind, like he just gets and he'll spot ducks in the air before most guys. His head's on a swivel, like kind of just always looking around, and he's just when he, when it's game mode, it's like I don't know, it's kind of like a working horse or something. He's just, that's all he thinks about. But uh, yeah, we had, uh, we had a good shoot last year with him and yeah, he didn't miss a duck. And you know, send them across you know water and then up into banks and we saw ducks drop in there and I'm out there with whistle directing, with pan signals and yeah, you can, you can usually get on them. The chessie scent is insane, like they. They have them for search and rescue and stuff. They have them in 9-11 looking for bodies and stuff, like they're. They've got one of those big noses on them, so they're pretty cool dog. And uh, yeah, he'll.
Speaker 2:There's times when we've shot ducks and I was with a buddy. He's had dogs forever too, and he was just like man don't I was about to call him off. He's like man, don't call him off, let him work, let him work. And that's the thing with these kind of dogs you just got to let them work and they'll eventually find the duck. And sure enough, all I saw was his tail and he got into this muskrat hole or something. Anyway, he was way down in there and he pulled out this green head mallard and just like that's. All it took was just let them work. You know those dogs, they know they know what they're doing, and it's almost like you just got to stand back for a minute and let them do their thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing about working dogs especially. You said that he's, you know, quite headstrong and stuff. And I've got hounds, I've got the coon hounds and I got the beagles, and around the house they're, them. Being so headstrong is incredibly, uh frustrating to say the least sometimes. But uh, but when you're out hunting though, it's a really good trait, because they they're so headstrong, they're not going to give up, they're going to work and work and work and they're going to get that scent going, get that animal tree, get that rabbit going and, um, yeah, I just it's a trait of, I think, any good working dog, but at a in home situation it can be, uh, it can be a bit annoying yeah, yeah, nox lives in our garage like he's not much of a house dog and I find he he's uncomfortable and he almost looks nervous in our house environment.
Speaker 2:I mean, he's the very best with my son, he's grown up with him and like when we brought my son home from the hospital we like lift him in the face Like I've never been nervous around anybody. But uh, yeah, there there's something else. He's just like you know. He's literally like a firm animal sometimes I just like give him the space and you know when it's time to go, he's just full bore. And to see him, I don't know. I've always wished like I had like a GoPro on him, because he has like a hell of a he's at the end of his career kind of thing. He's coming down for sure. But I probably got a year or two left with him. Have like a hell of a he's at the end of his career kind of thing. He's coming down for sure. But, um, I probably got a year or two left with him.
Speaker 2:But like to see his highlight video if I had a GoPro on him, just like tackling geese out of the air and like pulling on, pull himself up on ice and the ducks still moving and he's like floating on almost like a ice sheet going down the saint john river. Boys like are you gonna call him off? I'm like no, he's gonna get this duck and sure enough, and usually gets them. I've seen him even go like down under roots and stuff in the river and like I mean he's just next level, it's crazy in the current and stuff. And just like how did he just get that duck? Like yeah, I just got back from a fishing trip and boys, we all just sat around and had some drinks and talked about Knox for a bit, just like his highlights of I don't know jumping off like 12-foot banks into the water and chasing stuff. But yeah, they always say you only have one really good dog in your life and I'll bet you he'll be it. I've heard that I.
Speaker 1:I hope that's not true, though I, yeah, I know you hear that. I mean, I've currently got six working dogs and they're all pretty good, um, but yeah, I know I hate that saying because I was like man.
Speaker 2:I hope everyone's good, but yeah yeah, yeah, no, they're, they're fun and they're just like, I don't know, to see them work with all the training you put in with them and stuff, and it's like it's pretty. It's pretty freaking cool. And yeah, and I love coming back from like. There's been times when we come back with like four man limit and then all of a sudden we'll be walking back and he'll just bring another duck out of the woods and we're like we didn't shoot that and we're way, we're way'll be walking back and he'll just bring another duck out of the woods and we're like we didn't shoot that and we're way, we're way away from our blind and he just picked up a cripple from somebody else's crew, maybe the day before, who knows, but it's a dead duck either way. But that's going to be hard to, you know, defend an DNR. But yeah, we've got an extra duck here, but that happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 2:I swear, my dog just found it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they've heard that one before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no we didn't shoot it, my dog just go along and happened to grab it, like, oh, yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, exactly, license his voice. Yeah, I remember it was two years ago and I was with my friends, uh, ryan, with Salies and Logan Elliott They've been on the podcast before and they'll probably hear this and we were hunting this. Uh, really good. Uh, duck pond is quite large and there's some other guys hunting it too. We'd offered for them to hunt with this and uh, they're like no, no, we'll hunt over here. You guys, the training could have been better, but anyways, it had the instinct and, um, they were shooting away and they weren't getting anything. And then the dog could hear us shooting and then, you know, splash and like ducks hitting the water.
Speaker 1:And then, sure enough, we're like, we hear something, we look and the dog had left them. It was swimming over to us and it was like getting ducks for us. We're like, it's like boy that's embarrassing yeah, their dog abandoned them. And then it's like five, ten minutes later, like calling for the dog, like yeah, he's over here getting our ducks, but it's like, geez, that's uh embarrassing. But the dog, he, he wanted some action and we were. We, uh, we had it for him, but it's uh yeah, oh, go go ahead.
Speaker 2:They can't. They can't stand it when they're not being worked either. A lot of times, if it's a slow morning, you'll get a look from a dog. Let's just pure disappointment. Like, where the hell did you just bring me? Yeah, I thought you scouted this, but yeah, it's, it's wild.
Speaker 2:What they'll do Like it's pretty cool and I what they'll do like it's pretty cool, and I mean I'm not, it is I would, I would have a lab any day, or like you know there's there's a couple other breeds that are good, but uh, yeah, I mean it doesn't really matter what you got, as long as you put in the work. Um, I think that's what a waterfowl guy needs to do is, if you're gonna get a dog, make sure you put in the work, because other hunters I don't know, it's almost like one of those you know codes. If you're gonna buy a hunting dog, please put the work in, because there's nothing worse than a crazy animal in the blind. That's just you know, going nuts and yeah, and just you know not doing the appropriate things that it should be doing in the blind.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, we were hunting with a guy last year and his dog retrieved really well, but as far as staying still in the blind, not so much the ducks would be coming in, the dog would already run out and they'd flare off and stuff and it's like, yeah, your dog needs a bit more work. But I know it's not the, the breed, necessarily, or you know the lineage it's. You know everyone always says the dog, whoever's got the best dog is whoever works the dog the most. That's with hounds or you know upland dogs, retrievers, doesn't matter what yeah, yeah, and I mean training's really good.
Speaker 2:But also guys, like I've seen guys show up to a duck blind and I'm like where's his shot caller? And they're like, well, I don't have one. I'm just like, okay, see how today goes, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think I think shot callers are great for many aspects keeping your dog in control but it's also safety, like I mean, there's been times I've had to buzz nox when he's been after a whistler or something, and that thing is like gone and I'm literally I'm saving his life because he could, he'll be, he'll swim till he'll die, kind of thing. You know, he could be swimming down to St John if I didn't, you know, buzz him back. But yeah, I think that's, that's a big piece of technology. Luckily we have, because I've heard stories where old guys had a chessie and it's gone over to the island and started eating the duck and they couldn't get it back because they're just a hard-headed dog. Yeah, I couldn't imagine having knocks out without a shot caller because, like, I don't know, they can whenever he finally just wants to be like, yeah, screw you, make it happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean that's, yeah, any working dog like I like said with the hounds as well. I don't shock them much, but it's there if, if I need to, you know if they're going straight for a road or something like that, or you know you never anything right.
Speaker 1:100 yeah, yeah, no, they're, they're key yeah, and then you know too you're talking about, you know how he is and all that. It's a shame. And you know this comes back on the uh not to get all going on this, but when people are selling these dogs, breeders to put them into working home, because look how much your dog does and always wants to work on that and then you know the breeder could sell it to you know somebody else that just you know they just want it for a couch potato and right.
Speaker 1:You know it's not it's not going to go well yeah, I, yeah, I can't believe that sometimes.
Speaker 2:I mean, the good thing is like a lot of waterfowl guys that have dogs, you know, labs and such they're. They'll actually, you know, they screen people and they want to know are you actually going to hunt or run this dog? Because it's just unfair to them. They're like they're workhorses, like let them, let them run, let them do their job that they're bred for. I couldn't imagine knocks in a city and just be nuts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, absolutely. And then, um, you had another story, uh, if you want to tell about, uh, it involves very large fish yeah, that's brutal one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I've, I've done a bit of sea duck hunting myself and uh, yeah, this happened this year. I mean people can look on ctv news and stuff. It's uh, it's out there, but uh, it's kind of been in the back of my mind. I don't, I don't hunt so much. I hunt a bit on the northumberland straight close to my cottage. Uh be close to amherst, so I've hunted, knocks there and shot black ducks and stuff on the water and had them go out and retrieve. I mean I swam there, I windsurf and water ski and all the rest of it there.
Speaker 2:But down near the bottom of nova scotia it's an unfortunate story is, uh, dude I know sent his dog out and uh, after a sea duck and uh, yeah, I was coming back with the duck and uh, great white came up just like a bass lure and hit him. And uh, yeah, I was coming back with the duck and uh, great white came up just like a bass lure and hit him and uh took her down and let her go. I'm guessing the great white did onto her thinking it was a seal, but didn't feel blubber, so probably let her go. Once it was just bone muscle, like a dog would be. And, yeah, she got back to the boat and unfortunately bled out, so that's something you got to be careful of. I guess that's a new one for a new one, to really give yourself anxiety out on the ocean, but yeah yeah, no, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean I know guys um in the states and all that you got to worry about um poisonous snakes and alligators uh, you don't think often that, like, well, you know, you got to watch out for sharks, great white sharks.
Speaker 2:I mean that's crazy, yeah yeah, but it's like it's crazy, I think I don't know. I've been hearing from by his biologist. He said the amount of great whites that are kind of like between you know, cape breton and bigby, andoonenburg and all those areas. They're just, they're there and yeah, they kind of just go back and forth and it's possible. I mean, I don't know, they're always in the ocean. But yeah, that's a new one and I mean a seal and a dog would probably look fairly similar from the bottom so you could see how it could happen. But yeah, so yeah, that's a friend of mine. I don't know if he's going to be she-duck hunting so much anymore. I would say no, no.
Speaker 1:I couldn't imagine having to think about that. You know like well you know, there's a chance that your dog could get whacked by a great white yeah yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:And then there's people that surf right around there and I'm just like, okay, good on you. I guess, yeah, you should feel it. That wouldn't be what I would do. But yeah, no, no, I mean dogs are pretty cool and I like how you can do different things with them. I've got Knox into shed hunting, I don't know. Okay, probably like seven years he was like four or five when I started doing that or something with them and he's found some moose sheds that have been pretty big, and this year he found a dead uh, whatever you call them, like the dead head deer skull.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a nice eight point and he's found some really big um sheds over the years of deer. So yeah, it's cool and it's, I mean it. Sheds over the years with deer. So yeah, it's cool and it's, I mean it's nice. You're out in the woods and all of a sudden your dog brings you back a big shed for your garage and you're like, well, this is sweet, yeah. But yeah, I just like randomly, I was on youtube and some guy down the states and he's like, try this, and I bought it. I usually don't buy crap online, but anyways, it was like a almost like a chapstick and you just rub that on your sheds and it's got the scent. So I had a shed in the garage and I throw that out in the woods for him and he started getting really into it.
Speaker 1:So really that's how you it's a chat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean that's what they'll do, they? And I mean that's what they'll do. They'll just get the scent. And I mean that's what they're bred for.
Speaker 1:Yep, oh, that's neat, that that's how you started, just with a kind of chapstick thing, because you see guys that do use the dogs for shed hunting and it's always curious how they do get them on that. Yeah, it's like that. And then you've been fortunate enough to shoot uh, quite a few banded birds as well.
Speaker 2:I yeah, I think it seems to just be this kind of area around frederton. I think they band with fair amount of birds I don't know if it's more, or muck doe or where um, but yeah, we've, we've got a lot of ducks banded. We got into some geese that quite a few in the flock were banded, kind of like felt bad after we shot so many. We were just like, well, geez, we just had a great hunt. And then we looked down and we were like, oh shit. And then I think one of the boys got a hold of one of the guys who banded. He's like, geez, boys could have given them a year, but we, we didn't really know, but that's how it goes. But uh, yeah, and then I shot, uh yeah, one band of double banded birds in sussex.
Speaker 2:It was a pretty cool hunt, uh and uh looked down at the number and I was like, well, this doesn't make any sense. So I kept running it through the canada, whatever site on my phone and it wasn't working. So then reached out to a buddy who's a guide in pei and also a biologist and he's like I think you should try this. And anyways, I got a hold of some some professor in Denmark and it was a flock from Greenland. Yeah, so he told me all about it. It was pretty excited. It was one of the first shot new brunswick and there's I know a couple guys that have shot them recently.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, they the small flock of like 300 geese in greenland and they fly down east and winter in new jersey. So yeah, I got that's cool featured in a magazine about it or something. Take Em magazine. Oh yeah, yeah, it was pretty cool. I really should have mounted that bird. I don't know why, I just kept it banned, but he was kind of cool. He had little white spots under his wings and he wasn't huge. He wasn't like a giant goose by any means, but I don't know wow, so he came from greenland to new brunswick, canada?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's. And then?
Speaker 2:they uh, yeah, winter in new jersey, and then they go all the way back up every year, I guess. So, yeah, yeah, I don't know how many bands I've shot, but a lot, I guess. It just seems. They just seem to be around, I guess, and uh, and then I hunt in Nova Scotia and I don't think I've ever got one. So I guess it just depends where you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the luck of the draw. So I mean, what's your go-to uh gun and ammo setup when you're out, you know, hunting ducks.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, over the years, obviously I went into the pump first. I think everyone, if you're going to get into waterfowl, you should start off with pump. There's nothing wrong with a 20 gauge. I think 20 gauge are great A little less recoil. They still drop birds from way out too. They all work. And then, I don't't know work your way in. And if you want to go semi, most of the guys I hunt with, once you get experience, I mean seem to be the way to go. Um, I mean you can still miss with the semi, so I don't think it really matters but um. But yeah, I run a.
Speaker 2:I've kind of been a Browning snob for some reason. I kind of worked my way up. But I had a Browning BTS as my first. It was a heavy pump but it ejected below, which I kind of loved. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it was kind of a cool gun. I should have kept that one. And uh, then, uh, yeah, then I had a browning um gold or something for a bit tried an sx2, that's winchester was heavy, but then I got into the maxis and never went back.
Speaker 2:I mean it's light, I find it fits me. I think that's one of the biggest things is waterfowl. Guys need to just go into a shop and try everything and see what fits. I mean the A5 maybe is a bit bigger than the Maxxis but that might fit people better. You could look down the barrel a little easier with that one, so maybe use that, but Maxxis has fit me great.
Speaker 2:I use an improved choke. I think it's a modified improved choke. It's kind of a little different. I got it out of the states and I got this kind of big, yeah part attachment to it, but yeah, I don't know really whatever fits, I think that's the biggest thing. Just make sure you get a gun that you can kind of swing and throw on your shoulder really fast and obviously practice a little bit of ski shooting. I find with our hunting our group of boys we start early with we like to go down, do the traditional hunts down in the south of the province. So we'll hunt teal and wood duck for the start of the year and they're fast and if you can shoot those you can shoot anything after that. I find Once you shoot those early season, you make enough misses and you figure out speed and where you should lead a bird. Then when you're on black ducks and mallards and geese. It's fairly easy after that. They're a lot slower bird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too. You say that about the 20 gauges are fine because everyone thinks waterfowl, 12 gauges right. And if I didn't hunt geese I uh, I wouldn't own a 12 gauge because, like you're saying, the 20 gauge is great, it's quick, it's fast shooting. Uh, like you were saying, the 20 gauge is great, it's quick, it's fast shooting because low recoil, it really is awesome for ducks, it's just. Yeah, I own a 12 gauge specifically just for goose hunting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, yeah, I guess my Maxxis is a 12 gauge, but I've never I did hit three and a half for a season when I was younger and I found in a goose blind or duck blind, didn't matter. I would shoot the first shot and then it would just be hard for me to recover. I'm a smaller dude and, uh, I would not, I wouldn't recommend three and a half for many. I mean, you can shoot mostly anything with three inch and we. So what I'll start the season with is I usually start with number threes, uh, for smaller ducks, and then work my way into number twos or BB. Twos and BB are all you need for most, um, birds. So, yeah and uh, yeah, make sure you you give them a bit of lead, cause, uh, aim at their beak, I guess.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it depends, yeah, no, it's a, like you're saying too, practice. I mean, the skeet shooting really does make a difference and help, in the grand scheme of things, when you are out duck hunting.
Speaker 2:Yeah and ducks are a different thing, but like, yeah, then you go pheasant hunting. It's a whole different ball game.
Speaker 1:so You've done a bit of pheasant hunting. Did you have your dog along for that, or?
Speaker 2:uh, no, I never really got him into.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've shot partridge with him and he'll walk up to it and he's been force fetched so I'll tell him to pick up anything.
Speaker 2:I'll pick up a loaf of bread, but, um, no, I when I've done pheasant hunts, I've gone with guys that have gsps or wire hairs or setters and stuff, but so, yeah, um, but the cool thing, uh, about knox is like, um, I mean, I think this province, I don't know, I think it's a weagle, but uh, I think you should be able to use dogs when you've wounded an animal, because, yes, yeah, it's crazy, like when he's on blood, like I was out with him on a moose hunt, or he was just at camp, anyways, and another group they lost the moose and anyways, well, I just had him out there and for it was the day after, but man, he'd follow blood or it was crazy.
Speaker 2:Anyways, I think the moose did finally get away, but I just did the walk with him and I was this is crazy like just little drops he would find, and you know, we were, you know, just out for a walk, but it was cool, just to see what he could do. It's like he, I think. I think that would be. I think that'd be cool if you could do that, cause I don't know kind of cool to see a dog work on blood trails.
Speaker 1:Well it's. It's legal in a lot of the States and all that Not all of them, but quite a few in Canada. Um, I don't know if it is in any provinces, maybe some, but it's not really a thing here. But yeah, it definitely should be.
Speaker 1:I I mean, it's just, uh, part of your due diligence to try everything possible to find a wounded animal. And, you know, with the right, it's not just necessarily the dog that's trained in I think they should be leashed and stuff like that but just also the handler, because we had a girl in here on the podcast talking about before and, like she, she knows her stuff, she's well versed in you know tracking and all that and what to look for and everything and when to put you know to go in or like let's just give it some time, and you know that's a lot of it too is just having the person trained. But if both the animal and person are trained, I think it it, you know, should be a necessity everywhere for sure be available yeah, I mean yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:And if we did some kind of course or something that you got to do, I mean I would definitely do that course with them. And yeah, I mean, I don't see any harm in it as long as you've got your dog on the leash and or in some kind of control, that if you know they found the animal and the buck jumped up and he wasn't going to jump on it or chase it or do something to the animal. But I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Speaker 1:But no, I mean ethically, I think it's yeah, it should, it should be, you know, definitely legal that you can do that, because the amount of game that people have lost is, you know it, you're just sick to your stomach and it happens every year to, unfortunately, you know lots of people and um, with a dog, that could, you know, end a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, yeah, and I mean I couldn't think of anything worse and I mean it keeps like if somebody shoots a giant bull, you know, then you, you can, you can find that bull or your dog can be like yep, he's not here, so then you can.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know, we've got a short season, then you can move on and try and find another bull yeah, or at least be able to sleep that night knowing that, like, all right, I didn't really hit it. 100, yeah, 100. Well, you know, john, thanks for coming on the podcast. It was really interesting to learn about the Chessies. I didn't know anything about them. Like I said, I just always lumped them in with the lab category. I guess not, though, anymore. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for this waterfowl season and hopefully, like I said, you come on down here.
Speaker 2:like I said, you come on down here, I'll take you out coon hunting and with the beagles, and then this fall you know, see the chesty mark I'll have to get you out for uh, I have to get you out for waterfowl hunt. It's pretty pretty wicked.
Speaker 2:It's a it's a good time. I mean, I like to deer hunt and, uh, I like to get after moose and bears, but I don't know waterfowl hunt. It's just like getting everybody together and you know you can, you can take kids out. It doesn't matter about noise, it doesn't matter about scent yeah, it's, it's a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Stay real still. And yeah, no, it's all. It's all the things I like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean duck holes and the rest of it. There's another part to it that you've got to learn all these little tricks, but once you've called a duck back, it's pretty cool Working birds, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just the interaction with them, whereas with deer I mean not really you can some, but it's just yeah, it's cool. And then you know you screw up on one group. There's another group coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, and when, I don't know, you got a tornado of birds coming on top of you. There's nothing like it. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, can't wait, we'll have another.