Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Coffee, Cream, And A Career-Defining Buck
A chance encounter in pouring rain led to Ken Marr's first record book buck. What began as a frustrating morning with bad weather and an ill-timed coffee choice turned into the hunting story of a lifetime when Ken spotted what looked like "a moose" while climbing down from his stand. The resulting deer scored 154 7/8 inches net, earning its place in the New Brunswick record books.
Special guest Lane Lewis, a certified measurer for the New Brunswick Big Game Club, explains the fascinating world of trophy scoring. From typical versus non-typical racks to the precise measurements that determine record book status, Lane unpacks the Boone and Crockett system used across North America. He shares stories of measuring everything from massive non-typical whitetails to polar bear skulls that exceeded his measuring tools' capacity.
The conversation explores minimum qualifying scores for different hunting methods and game animals in New Brunswick. Rifle-harvested deer must score 140 inches (typical) or 160 inches (non-typical), while archery minimums are set at 115 and 135 inches. Even pickups—antlers found after natural mortality—can qualify for the record book.
Beyond the numbers, this episode captures the essence of hunting heritage and how record books serve to document exceptional harvests across generations. Whether you're curious about how your trophy might measure up or simply enjoy hunting stories, this conversation offers valuable insights into the traditions that connect hunters with their shared outdoor heritage.
Want to check out the New Brunswick Big Game Club record book or have your trophy measured? Reach out to Lane through the club's Instagram page or contact Ken through Hunts On Outfitting.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
this is hunts on outfitting podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken meyer. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to how to's. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. All right, thanks for listening in to this week's episode of the podcast. We appreciate it, as always.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, we, uh, we've got a great one for you. I got, uh, my friends sitting across from elaine and we're going to talk about, uh, I'm finally going to tell my deer story because I know people have seen pictures of it and this and that and, uh, I've just been waiting, I guess. But I was like you know what? I going to tell my deer story because I know people have seen pictures of it and this and that. I've just been waiting, I guess. But I was like you know what? I'm going to tell my deer story. Some people were curious Lane, you're going to be talking to us about a big game club, not yours, it's a province's big game club. We're excited.
Speaker 1:Also, a friend of mine was talking. He got this dog and the dog he's feeding it a Nook Shook and he wanted the Marine blend, which is great. And I was like, why do you want the Marine blend. Like you know, you can get the other blend too. He's like well, he said the breed that he has is more prone to having allergies or something to some of the chicken things like that. I guess that's that breed. I was like never thought of that. So the Marine blend uh comes in handy. So I mean some of you guys thinking you want a variety and all that, it's uh, it's got the variety for you. It's a one-stop shop. You just find a uh reseller, trusted reseller, online on their website. Put in your area code and they're going to show you who's around you 800, over 800 across North America. Um, also, have you ever considered if a Zempik is right for you? No, we're not sponsored by a Zempik Lane. Before we got started, too, you were looking at the Canadian access to firearms.
Speaker 1:I was it's like a newsletter. It's a magazine newsletter. What did you think of it? It's pretty neat. Lots of guns.
Speaker 2:I was surprised. Everything was in it, from guns to fishing equipment to scopes, to ammo. Deer pictures in there, it was everything.
Speaker 1:Everything and it ships goes right to your house and it's going to keep you up to date for you Canadians on what's going on in the gun world, shows coming up, new gear, all that stuff. So it's great, lots of good articles in it. Lane, thanks for coming out. I'm going to try to tell a story about my deer. I always ask for people for their stories on here and I'm going to try to give it a go myself, see if I can tell one as good as my guests do Before we get started. Lane, you've been on here quite a few times before, but for those listening in for the first time, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do?
Speaker 2:My name's Lane Lewis, I'm from Havelock, new Brunswick, and I work for the City of Moncton.
Speaker 1:You're in Canada.
Speaker 2:In Canada.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excellent, all right Lane. So I've been very blessed and fortunate to have several things in the New Brunswick record book.
Speaker 2:Officially three now.
Speaker 1:Officially three, but we're going to get started. I'm going to tell the story about my first one and then we're going to get into how you got going with this. The scoring, what New Brunswick wants, minimum for archery, for uh, for gun, what's accepted, what's not, all that, and it doesn't matter where you're listening to this, from what province, what state, what country. It's kind of interesting. And I mean, you know, even though we're going to talk about some of the animals in there from, say, new brunswick uh, lane, you ship the book all over. You can ship the book to anyone that wants it. I mean, you've got the one from nova scotia. If somebody came to you and said, lane, I've got this great offer, you can ship the book to anyone that wants it. I mean, you've got the one from Nova Scotia. If somebody came to you and said, lane, I've got this great offer, you can get the Iowa record book, which you'd probably be interested.
Speaker 1:Yep, you know just curious to see you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, when I get the one from Nova Scotia it was a buddy of mine and we traded I shipped him a Redskins one and he shipped me a Nova Scotia one yeah you know it's interesting to see.
Speaker 1:And then you know your guys' books are really well put together. You've got colored pictures. Some people have stories and all that. It's thick. There's deer, moose, bear in it. It's pretty interesting, it's good to look at. So my deer story. Well, where do I begin? It's 1993.
Speaker 1:No, so there I was standing there, deer to my left, deer to my right, one bullet left and that's all I needed. No, so I'm going to start off by saying so, like a lot of people, hunting deer growing up I did when I could, but working, you know, when you're younger you're really eager to work all the time, make some money, and that really kept interfering with my hunting, deer hunting in particular. I could always get out for some duck hunting and you know some small game stuff right. But with that deer hunting I was always kind of picky, maybe because I used to get the Big Buck magazine, you know, I remember that and I think my standards were like really high Because I didn't want to shoot. You know, a smaller one. So I was like, oh you know, know, anyone can shoot that. And I was just picky for a lot of years, said I think it had a lot to do with reading that magazine and stuff. But uh, you know, it's good to have standards, I suppose. And uh, I, um, I did. I'd hunted deer a lot, a lot before when I could. Definitely, like I said, I was just picky, uh, but I never considered myself a deer hunter per se.
Speaker 1:I hunt deer. I get bored easily. I don't want to sit in a stand and I do some. That's a lot of the deer hunting is done around here. I like walking and I'd see a lot of deer walking. Some people find they scare them off and all that walking. I would see I'd see just as many walking as I would from the stand. But I don't know, I just got bored, get bored with it. But uh, I was working at west and I actually had some time for for deer season and I've been frustrated up until that year, quite frustrated the past few. I had some close calls, some big bucks I was after and all that. Nothing really came through. So I was like, well, if I don't get a deer this year, like I'm just freaking done. No, it wasn't quite that bad. I was getting a little. I wasn't enjoying it as much, I guess.
Speaker 1:So then I got a new gun. I got it out in Alberta because the taxes were cheaper there, so it was great. I remember asking we're staying at a hotel there for work and I asked the hotel owner manager at first I'm like. I said if I buy a gun, can I bring it back here? I said because I'm going to fly home with it, just figured I'd ask you know if someone brings a gun into a hotel. He's like sure. I said just don't be waving it around to everybody. Of course I didn't listen and that's why I don't have that gun anymore and a criminal record no, I'm just kidding. So I did get that gun, flew it home and I I wanted one last big game rifle for New Brunswick. So you know we're hunting bear, deer, moose and this gun has taken all of them. And I was looking at a lot of different guns and I settled on the Browning X-Bolt. I got the full synthetic, I got the 22-inch barrel and I got it in a 7mm 08. The thing shoots really accurately. It's so light.
Speaker 2:Extremely. I've shot with you and it's dead on. It attacks at 100 yards.
Speaker 1:Easy oh easy. The trigger has just that hair. You breathe on it. It should go off. The gun's nice and comfortable. If you want to sit in a stand, it's great for that. If you want to go tramping through the woods, I like doing that, it's great for that. It's short and it's tough and it has taken a moose and it's taken a few deer and several bear. Yeah, I really like that gun a lot. And you know, detachable clip and I'm shooting the Browning BXR I can't remember exactly, it's the rapid expansion bullets. Have you seen like I think the first bear shot with it? You're like holy shit, it made a mess, it blew the shoulder apart. You know, I think the first bear shot with it. You're like holy shit, it made a mess, blew the shoulder apart. For you know, the 7mm 08 would be considered a smaller gun, yep, smaller gun.
Speaker 1:Really so anyways, I love it. So then, yeah, so I had the hunting deer and I didn't have anything on camera. I've always been an occasional camera user. This year I got on the. This spring I got on the old uh cell cam train, like it good on that wagon, staying on that wagon. I used it for turkey. Hunting is great scouting then bear season worked really well for that you jumped right in.
Speaker 2:You didn't just dip your toes and I went from nine to three or four. Now, yeah, yeah, I love it I just like these things are.
Speaker 1:They are valuable because, uh, I've gotten a little more into deer hunting with the food plot and everything. I like doing that more than do hunting. Honestly, some of the deer just managing it, you know, working the ground, putting stuff in, trimming around the apple trees, putting cameras up, seeing what's going on. Yeah, I enjoy that part of it quite a bit because it's busy and I like to be busy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I don't like relaxing too much, but yeah, that year I uh I only had a little six point on camera, but again I didn't have much out. So remember I was, it was. I got up that morning morning I got my buck and it was just pouring rain and it was warm, and what time was. Were we in november lane?
Speaker 2:I think we're close I want to say it was the third week of rifle season, so like that, right around Remembrance Day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was just oddly warm and just pouring like just a beat hell. So I got up that morning. I was like I wasn't even going to go out. I was like, oh no, screw it, I'll go. So I got my for you Canadians listening, who know this place got my Tim Hortons coffee and you'll know this place got my Tim Hortons coffee. And you know, I screwed up that morning. Normally I get two milk instead of two cream, but I got two cream. And just remember that part because this comes back into the story later.
Speaker 1:So I get out there and as I'm hunting I'm just sitting in the stand. I was sitting looking at a logging road and it's about 125 yards away, roughly. So there I'm watching, it's just pouring rain and all that, and then all of a sudden I hear a knocking and it's nature and it's calling and I was like crap, that cream is coming back to haunt me and I was like, ah jeez, I've got to go use the bathroom. So I'm up in the stand. I was like, well, I'll just leave my gun here and I'll race back to my parents' house and you know, use the bathroom, come back out, hunt a bit longer, because I don't know what time it was in the morning, it was 9 o'clock probably or something. I was like I'll hunt a little longer. I don't like sitting too long, but just with it raining that much, I was like whatever. And um, yeah, so I'm like I left my gun out there.
Speaker 1:I'm going down the ladder, then I see these does are out in the field like way down. I'm like, oh, there's some does there. And then all of a sudden I see this other big body deer, lift its head up and turn and it just looked like a moose. I'm like holy shit. So I, uh, I couldn't believe it just looked like a moose. I'm like holy shit, so I couldn't believe it. It's just huge. It looked like something out of a freaking you know magazine. And then I was like, is this crazy? This is happening. I was like, well, let me do a mental checklist real quick. It's deer season. Yeah, I'm deer hunting, yeah, and there's a giant buck down there. Yeah, and I don, there's a giant buck down there, yeah, then I'll have my gun.
Speaker 1:So I like carefully get back up and the buck was eating somebody. He was you know, he was rutting pretty hard. He's paying attention to the does. So the does. They were kind of onto me, the buck didn't care at all.
Speaker 1:So then I quickly get up there, come back down, get the gun. And then, uh, I up the ladder. I just kind of reached in, grabbed the gun, came down because I figured if I went right up into the tree, stand and you know moving right up there, they'd see me. So then, um, I get it and the does were like starting to look around, but it wasn't too bad yet, and then I just kind of ducked down and then there was grass and some branches around me so I was like I gotta stand up. So I stood up and then they saw me. And then they saw me and then they take off and I had nothing to rest the gun on at all.
Speaker 1:And, uh, this is where that hair pin trigger comes in handy, because if that trigger had any kind of pull at all 100 I think it would have missed. So the buck started going with them and I was like he was he wasn't running, but he was moving and I normally, you know, wouldn't shoot big game animal on the move. But I was like I felt good in it and he's shot. And then it looked like he's hit, but I couldn't quite tell him they're just gone and that was it and I was like holy shit, so I just, like you know, kind of freaked out, breathing a bit and then I was like I'm gonna wait, I'm gonna go back to the house and grab some dry clothes and shit myself or whatever. Sorry, whatever I had to do and uh, I'll just give him some time.
Speaker 1:So I'm like running back and I remember I called my wife. She was on her way to work and I called her. I'm like screaming. She thought I was getting chased by a bear because I was all out of breath and I was screaming and I was like I just shot, like, basically, a moose. She's like you shot a moose. She's like, no, no, like it looks like a moose and all that. She's like, oh, okay, because you can't shoot moose. I'm like I know.
Speaker 1:I know that. So I'm going back and I'm all freaked out. And then nobody else was around that morning except for my friend Cody Edgar. So I called Cody, told him I said I might need some more tracking. Cody's like okay. So we came right out, right on Cody, he's off that. So we get out.
Speaker 1:So Cody comes out and it's just pouring rain still and I left my gun after I'd shot. I put it back in the stand, yeah, so I left it there. So Cody comes out, so we start looking for the deer and I'm just not thinking because you know, I'm just thinking about the deer and everything that's going on and all that. So I left my gun in there. So we're like scouting around looking and we're like, okay, we can see where he's hit. We're just following tracks. We didn't see any blood at all because it's raining so hard and everything. He didn't really bleed much. So we see this blood or sorry, we see these tracks. It looked like a bigger deer like moved quick, not just the does running like something you know, I don't know if you want to say flinched or whatever, but just reaction.
Speaker 1:You can see a bigger set of hoofs, hoof marks. So we follow that. And then Cody's like looking in through the woods, he's like you got him. I was like what he's like? Yeah, he's like he's laying right there by that tree. He said I think he's dead. And then I couldn't see. I was behind him, it was so thick. And Cody's like oh no, he's up. He's like he's gone right. So I was like jeez. So we quietly went over there, checked by the base of the tree. Finally we found a bit of blood. We're like it's good, dark blood. We're like all right.
Speaker 1:He said I'm like I couldn't believe I didn't have the gun with me. So I run back to the tree, stand, grab the gun in case we see him again, go back out and we're looking and looking. And then we go a bit further and then we come down to this little I don't know, not a valley, but this little knoll or whatever in the woods and then there he is laying right there. But I was like I was real cautious. I was like get the gun all set. I'm like I'll go in first and give him a little tap and I was like all right, he's officially dead. I was like holy shit, and yeah, that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So you guys were all at work, remember? I sent the picture to you and Cody just snapped one quick, like it was pouring rain. I only have like two pictures with this deer. I think Some people take like a whole photo album Lane. No, but I only have like two. It was pouring rain and this and that. So I just sat there and Cody just snapped a quick picture and we're just like taking it all in Like wow, that picture turned out. It looked fake.
Speaker 2:It did, running in the woods at the time running equipment and I didn't have service, and I remember I got a text from you, I got my first buck and it had the picture sent through, but it wouldn't load. Oh, and I'm wondering, all day waiting for service. I'm trying to find service all day, when it come through yeah it wasn't fully loaded because it was blurry too, so it made it even look even faker and I'm like okay, can like you photoshop this photo like good, one looked like it yeah and then then you started sending me pictures.
Speaker 2:Later on that day they come through of it laying in the back of the truck.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, you really did shoot that deer so we ended up uh, I ended up hanging it at your you guys were living home then hanging at your parents house and stuff and then, yeah, you guys got home from work, you and your brother and your dad and everybody, and you're like oh, wow yeah, it's cool, I couldn't believe it, yeah, so that was pretty good, that was surreal.
Speaker 1:So I mean, that day that morning I got home, that was just shit luck. I'll say that that wasn't skill or nothing, that was complete shit luck. But up until then I had put in my time, I had hunted as much as I could, and um, yeah, it was just picky and and all that and uh, it paid off it. Um is quite a deer and and really happy and blessed uh to have gotten them. And uh, yeah, I still I'm still not a huge deer hunter. Like, if I wake up in the morning it's real nice out. If I wasn't already planning on deer hunting, if I didn't get up super early, I'm probably taking the beagles out and running snowshoe hare. You know I like deer hunting, I do. And now that I'm doing the food plots and management and stuff like that, a little more deer hunting more. But I mean I do like my small game hunting, I do like that.
Speaker 1:So the deer got scored and the official score on it net, what it grossed but gross doesn't matter net was 154 and seven eighths. So it's a good size deer. He had an 11th point on him. That was quite big and that that knocked a lot of points off, that deducted quite a bit. And you know we, you talk to people who have like a really nice deer, big, beautiful buck, and you're looking at like, yeah, it's not gonna score, well it, because they'll ask, you know you've looking at it like yeah, it's not going to score well, Because they'll ask you know you've had it laying, like you know that's going to score pretty good. It's like, well, no, because it's scored as a typical and it's just it's not going to.
Speaker 1:But some people get hung up on that. It's like you know you've got a great deer, Don't worry about it. I mean, don't let it get to you, it does not matter. You shoot a nice buck, that's fine. Absolutely, it doesn't matter. If you're happy with it, Good, Be happy with it. I don't care what it is, as long as you took it legally. But for some people, the scoring thing you know it's cool to see and the fact that there needs to be why people don't like the deductions and all that, there's got to be a line.
Speaker 2:A standard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's got to be a standard and you guys have it. So, lane, why don't you take it from here and tell us a bit about you got into, why did you get into the scoring and all that for the New Brunswick Big Game Club.
Speaker 2:Well, the main reason I got into it was because I was struggling to find measures in my area and to get certificates printed and I knew a lot of people that had animals scored and they didn't have their certificate. And I said, well, no sense of complaining about it when I can help the problem. So I kept messaging a couple people and I tried for a couple years to get a course lined up. And then I got in contact with a guy and he said, if I can find four or five other guys that'd be willing to take the course with me, that we could put one on and to learn how to score yep, well, we all.
Speaker 2:He said he'd like for all of us to have the basics down, just to save a lot of time because it was only a one day course. We, and all the guys that did it, had the basics down.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We wanted to go in like in a non-typical points and splits and that all that. Anyway, that's what the course was about. But and it worked out, we did a, we did a course and this spring and we actually did it at my parents' place this spring and we actually did it at my parents place. It just worked out better location wise for everyone else. We found a week, saturday that worked out for everybody, and I had a bunch of guys from St John come down and we scored three or four deer, a couple moose and some bear and went over some. I brought some sheds out just for different with splits and a couple with a kicker and just to go over cover all the basics on how to score different things.
Speaker 1:Because I mean there's a little bit. I mean there's a little bit to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah and a lot of deer. They got little characteristics that score different and I wanted to cover all my basics that's right.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, so you guys scored. So I didn't even know this till you told me, because when I was out, uh, I talked about this on other podcasts about, uh, this area that we coon hunt in and the beaver had put up a dam. So I asked the landowner. I said do you mind if I go in there and trap the beaver out, because it's kind of hard to get across, that you know coon hunting? He's like sure. And then he talked to me about these, this deer and deer. He heard it might have been jacked and apparently it's a good size and all that. And sure enough, we find the carcass down there. I mean, this is months after deer season, probably three.
Speaker 2:Oh, this was like February.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our deer season ends in November, so it's a bit after. And we find it down there and sure enough, it was big, it was a nice buck. Shame, that's how it was taken. But anyways, whoever shot it never gets it. So that's good because it was jacked. But yeah, I found it. And then you said Lane, I didn't know this. In the big game book here there's a category for pickups, stuff that you find.
Speaker 2:Yep deadheads, we enter them. It's not a different category. It's in the same list as harvested animal. It just says beside your name in brackets that.
Speaker 1:Pickup, pickup yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, but it's not. It doesn't have a separate category for just deadheads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this one scored just over 144.
Speaker 2:I can't remember it's the sheets right there.
Speaker 1:I'll look quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 144 and 5-8s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not bad. And then I haven't hunted bear in uh a while black bear in the spring here because uh, uh, since I started farming, you know, six years ago, I've just been too busy in the spring because I had sheep. Now I have just all cows and I was always lambing in the spring and it's just, it's just too busy. But this year at the cows they calved on pastures way easier, wasn't as busy. So I was able to hunt bear again for the first time in six years and I said I wanted to get one with my bow and I was hoping to get it in the Brunswick record books and I had some big ones come in that I couldn't get to come in the daylight. And then, sure enough, that nice one came in, nailed it with the bow and he made the record book. Yep.
Speaker 1:For here for 17 and 8, 16th, I don't know it's behind you 17, 8, 16th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because bears go to the nearest 16th of an inch and deer and moose are the eighths so I'm lucky to have three.
Speaker 1:Uh, hoping, hoping for more. But uh, so lane. Why don't you tell us? So run through each animal that's in the record book and what the minimum score is for rifle. The minimum score is for rifle.
Speaker 2:The minimum score is for archery I knew you're gonna ask me that and I have to double uh for deer, the the minimum for open, which is muzzleloader rifle crossbow, because uh, the province doesn't acknowledge crossbows as archery good because we run off the boone and Crockett and Pope and Young scoring systems.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's how you do it.
Speaker 2:And Pope and Young only counts vertical bows.
Speaker 1:So, compounds long bows, like your traditional bows and your compounds bows only count as archery See, that's the only thing I don't care what people take and what they take it with, as long as they take it legally count as archery. See, that's the only thing. I don't care what people take and what they take it with, as long as they take it legally. But an abled-bodied person trying to claim archery whatever with a crossbow, I'm against. It's got a scope, it's got a trigger. You're able-bodied, practice with compound or longbow or whatever, like everyone else that's doing it, and just do that. I don't like that. I think it's cheating.
Speaker 2:I've heard a couple guys try to enter crossbow kills as archery. No, just not knowing, just assuming because, they shot it in archery season. And then they got talking with the measurer and they're like, oh yeah, you shot that with a crossbow. That's not an archery, that's open class. Yeah, but for a minimal open class it's 140 inches net. So after all your deductions, right and for your open non-typical, it's 160. Okay.
Speaker 2:So if you have more than 15 inches deduction, you can score it as a non-typical. You don't have to, because every deer I think there's been three in the world ever that has not had a typical frame.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to say three. But every deer has a typical frame. Yes, it might not make it with a typical frame, but if it's got yeah, I want to say 15 inches you can go. You can score it as a non-typical. But, it's going to be 160. And then with archery in the province we run at 115 inches.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not a massive deer at all.
Speaker 2:And then non-typical for archery is 135.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so for bear. You know I was surprised for bear, for Pope and Young, because mine's 17, 8, 16. It's not the big one I was after, but happy with him. Good, clean bow kill. I was really surprised at the pope and young's minimum for black bears 18, 18.
Speaker 2:I was like that's not that big really, that's pretty decent size.
Speaker 1:Bear though size. But yeah, I was a little surprised uh. So what is it for archery uh in new brunswick?
Speaker 2:uh 17 inches for archery in the province okay, and then what about rifle or gun? Open class is 19 inches 19? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's not bad. And then for moose.
Speaker 2:Moose is 160 for open class and 140 for archery.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so do you have the record for the largest open class whitetail taken in New Brunswick.
Speaker 2:Do I.
Speaker 1:Do you know it? It's in the book somewhere, but is it up? I haven't looked at the book in a little while.
Speaker 2:The biggest one ever shot in the province.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's well over 200 inches.
Speaker 1:Is it? Yeah, it's, 230 something 230 something shot in New Brunswick. Yeah, open class, that's huge. Yeah, jeez, do you know what year, long time ago?
Speaker 2:Yeah, years and years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've been scoring. Now, what's the biggest buck you've scored?
Speaker 2:The biggest buck I scored net is it was a non-typical, it was 185 inches non-typical. Oh, it was a non-typical, it was 185 inches non-typical.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was non-typical, non-typical and its typical gross score was 175.
Speaker 2:Okay, that was open class.
Speaker 1:Yep, so people listen to this wondering tell us the difference between someone brings what's a typical, non-typical whitetail, the rack. How do do you what defines that?
Speaker 2:because there's some people listening like I don't know what they're talking about well, you have the option too, because I but if you have, every deer has a typical frame which is their, your main beams, your g2s, g4s, so and so forth, and they have to match per side. So if you get an abnormal point, like if you get six on one side as in your case, looking at your deer on the wall and five on the other, the abnormal point would be that sixth point and that counts as a deduction for your final score.
Speaker 1:So you measure that how long it is and use that length to deduct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we got a first scoring system.
Speaker 1:So if my deer had broken that off, he would net much higher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that wouldn't have been a negative yeah.
Speaker 1:I think he was going to net almost 170 if it wasn't for that I want to say.
Speaker 2:it was 166, I think it was Gross. I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember. It's been so long it's been scored.
Speaker 1:So that's how okay, so that's how you do it. So what so people? They can have an option.
Speaker 2:Yes, cause every like I've measured a couple deer. That well, this big one that I got it's non-typical scores one 85. But his typical score is 175. So he can enter it as a typical or he can enter it as a non-typical.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, Because it made it for both. It made the threshold because it made the 140 and the 160. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Now some deer have make it only on the typical score. So if, like for yours, it made it as a typical score is 154.
Speaker 1:The non-typical score didn't, because it's deductions, yeah and it's not not very many deer make non-typical but yeah, for people listening, I guess simplify it in a way. Most deer that you see, you know, say it's a, it's a 10 pointer, five points on one side, five points on the other. That's including your brow tines and everything and both sides look pretty similar. That's typical, yep, and then your non-typical is that stuff that looks like it went through a friggin. Uh, it looks like those things that grow off of trees what do you call them that, which is broom or whatever? It's just a mess yep that's your non-typical.
Speaker 2:Any kickers off any of the tines or any splits. Those are deductions. Drop tines. Any abnormalities is a deduction from your.
Speaker 1:So you guys are using the Boone and Crockett, pope and Young scoring system. This is the same across the world, north America, north America anyways. You always hear that thing like well, if you can put a wedding ring on it, it counts. What is that officially, though?
Speaker 2:It has to be one inch it has to be one inch. For deer. For a moose it has to be longer than it is wide.
Speaker 1:Really Yep.
Speaker 2:Because you see on top of their paddles a really short, narrow point.
Speaker 1:All these nubs sometimes yeah.
Speaker 2:But if it's longer than it is, it still has to be over an inch. Oh it still has to be over an inch, yeah, but if it has a gradual grade and it's three inches wide at the cutoff and it's only an inch and a half. It doesn't count.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's what it is for deer, though an inch, yeah, because I know they say say that you can hang a wedding ring on it. No, it's going to count. Okay, all right, that makes sense, and then? So how do you do it for bear Bears? Is that probably the easiest score?
Speaker 2:Bears and cats are the same. The skull is front to back and side to side, and then you add the two.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, alright, he wasn't real wide, but he's long the score sheet's behind you.
Speaker 2:You can tell me your measurements.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna Like. I said it's 17 and 8 sixteenths and then Lane, so the measurements were length, 11 and 2 sixteenths, and then the width was 6 and 6 sixteenths.
Speaker 2:And then you just added 2.
Speaker 1:Well, that's pretty simple.
Speaker 2:Pretty simple.
Speaker 1:So, Lane, you know you do this out of your own pocket. Yep, we pay you for. You print up this very nice Big Game, Club Achievement Award, presented Yep, and that's great.
Speaker 2:We pay what you charge $5 for that $5 just to cover the ink cost think it's really nice, really well done.
Speaker 1:And then you know but you're doing this, which is great for the club. You're not paid for this. People are bringing you deer, moose, bear from all over any time of the year. Can you score this, can you score that, can you score this, can you score that? And you do because you meet some great people. You get a great story out of it.
Speaker 1:But it's nice that you do it out of your own time and pocket and it just helps keep things like this going right and no matter what state, province, country you're in, it's good if you guys have a club like that. Like I said, some people get too hung up on like, oh, I've got a big deer, but I didn't make it because of these deductions. It's okay, be happy with your deer, but it's nice to have big game clubs like this. Just just like I said, you have to have a standard, so not. You know it's a club, so not everyone can be in it, right and um, it's just, it's just good to have and just good to keep going.
Speaker 1:You know anything to do with the outdoors hunting, you know let's keep that stuff going. You kind of get into it two lane because a lot of the uh club members in it. Some of them are listening. Possibly they're that are running it or they're not old. They're're older. I'll say that they're not old, but they're getting up there in age. So it's good to have people like yourself, younger, getting into it and just kind of keeping that going. Like I said, anything to do with the outdoors to keep it going. Any clubs you know.
Speaker 2:Same with any club If you don't use it, you're going to lose it. I don't want to see this drift off in the wind and just become nothing anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, exactly, and it's nice to have and the books are really well done. Like I said, they're full-colored pictures, lots in there to look at, a lot of people, not everyone, but you can put a story in there and everything. It's quite thick, it's nice.
Speaker 2:If anyone's looking to get one. How do they find it? They can get a hold of you and you can relay the message to me or they can message me on facebook or instagram and I run the the new brunswick big game club instagram page. You can message that page and I can get a hold of you and work out the details and try to get you one.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, if anyone wants to contact me, you can on Facebook. Ken Meyer or Hunts on Outfitting or huntsonoutfitting at gmailcom Lane can ship it. Anyways, he'll find a way He'll get it there. But, like I said, it's interesting, even if you're not from here and all that. It's a great book. It's cool to look through. I mean, you're not from Nova Scotia or anything. You're flipping through that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like to look through it.
Speaker 1:I know in Maine I've got a friend in Maine. They keep track of everything, even like the heaviest raccoon and stuff like that and it's cool. You know, it's really interesting to hear about and stuff I haven't looked looked into shipping to the states.
Speaker 2:I know it's an option, I just don't know price-wise. Well, how much are the books? $25?
Speaker 1:$25. So if you're buying from the US, your dollar is worth a lot more than ours right now, so that'd probably cover the shipping, Do you think? I know it's not big game, but would they ever put turkey in there? We're working on it, Really Okay.
Speaker 2:Now that there's an official season, we've been looking into it.
Speaker 1:Really, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:But I don't know how I have to look into some scoring systems because I don't know how you totally measure them.
Speaker 1:If it's beard or it's spurs, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I know you'd have to look into that. We have talked about potentially putting it in the book.
Speaker 1:Okay, because I was curious about that. I know it's not big game, but I don't know if it's kind of candid like big game in New Brunswick. I don't know, it's not, it's a bird, but we're new to it here. We're excited, had a great turkey season this year, got two hunters they're turkeys A lot of fun. This is only our fourth year, I think, in New Brunswick with a turkey season. It's a draw system. It's kind of hard to get your tag at the moment, but the population's looking better, so it's neat. And then what was it Speaking of big game scoring and all that the Boone and Crockett, I think just recognized back in December I think it was Javelina, which are kind of like a wild boar, just a little smaller.
Speaker 1:So that's neat. It's just cool stuff like that and knowing that these people are working on doing this and that with these clubs and just keeping them in the spotlight in a good way. What's your favorite animal score? You love it because you get to have especially deer and moose and all that. But just people come to you and want stuff scored. But before you answer that, I got another question did you score a bear recently? That's not black yeah, I scored.
Speaker 2:A guy actually get brought a black bear for me to score. He made the record book and, uh, he said I'll be right back. I got something to to show you and he brought me a polar bear skull.
Speaker 1:Right, did he get you to score it? It won't make it in New Brunswick, obviously.
Speaker 2:I couldn't score it because it was too big for my caliper Really, and it maxes out at 15 inches.
Speaker 1:And it was over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, and he said it wasn't a very big polar bear skull.
Speaker 1:Gee, because you can score. Well. I mean, you score for the Brunswick Big Game book, but people can bring you stuff. You can score it right. You're not Boone and Crockett.
Speaker 2:Not yet I'm looking into getting.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been looking into getting a Boone and Crockett official so I can officially enter any North American roasted animal, and I have to go to the States for that for a couple weeks. But I'm looking into it. But you're looking into that?
Speaker 1:See, that'd be cool because so that way well, if someone goes on a hunt, come back, say that guy with the polar bear and wants you to score it, then you can officially put it in for the Boone and Crockett which is it's all North America, right?
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, that's pretty neat, the polar bear thing and he ended up giving me a claw as a keepsake. He was very appreciative of me scoring his bear and it was a big bear.
Speaker 1:He made the book and he gave me a claw there's lots of polar bears because people, like you know, coca-cola is going on. They're extinct almost, but they're not. I mean, and the pictures I've seen of them and stuff, people hunting them, they're not skinny either. Like they're not skinny either. They're going on, these things that are big and fat.
Speaker 2:He works up to Nunavut is why? Okay, he's in Nunavut and he said he sees them. They're problematic bears and they have to shoot them, because this is when a bear gets comfortable around you and if it wants you dead, you're dead. There's no stopping a problematic bear, so you have to kill it right, yeah, their pictures I've seen are huge.
Speaker 1:You said the skull, like compared to the black bear, was just crazy like no comparison not even close. Really, it looked fake jeez, yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, yeah, so sorry. What's your favorite animal to score out of the three?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna have to go with deer I just I just love deer yeah and I mean it's the most popular that I've scored.
Speaker 2:I've only scored a couple moose and a handful of bear. I just like, because I do it all in my house. I just yeah, I don't, I'm not into travel and I'm set up in the basement with the printer. Like I print the score sheet right off there for you and the certificate and I have everything set up and it's just cool to come down and we'll talk hunting and well, they've got a story they relive the whole story it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Listen back and it's pretty cool. I measured. I measured a couple deer that they were close coming in the book and I always hide the score because it adds it up as I'm scoring on the computer, so I hide it and then I scroll down after and they were. They just squeaked in, but they were quite excited when I told them that they made the record book.
Speaker 1:Like I said, there's some really nice deer and stuff shot that don't make it because the deductions be happy with it. But when you do make it in it's a cool feeling too. But, like I said, it's a club In clubs. Not everyone can be in it. That's right, but be happy with what you got. And then, you never know, next year somebody that you know couldn't make it in before might get it. Just it's luck.
Speaker 2:And it's nice, you know, to have a number to strive for. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:To push yourself to aim towards at some point in your career. Said like, say with my deer, um, you know, putting lots of hard work and all that before another year is nothing, and then that one's just I'd go use the bathroom and see him, you know. But it just comes down to luck a lot of it. Uh, unlike some other species where it's, you know, really skill and hard work and dedication. I mean you do that with deer too, especially with me. Now I've been putting in a lot more scouting and like putting the food plots up and this and that and just putting a lot more boots on the ground. Um, you too, lane, you're all over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hunting for them stuff, let's think you know, when someone's coming to bring you an animal score, they're gonna have a story. You guys gonna have a chat, you know um it's. Uh, some people want you to go to them though.
Speaker 2:Hey, I know you don't I don't even give them the option.
Speaker 1:No well, well, like I said, you're doing this your own time, printing up this, all that form they should come to you.
Speaker 2:We are looking at putting some booths in at some shows in the next year for people that are unable to make it to my place. I think we're putting a booth in at the sportsman show in Moncton this spring and we plan on going to the United Guides and Outfitters show in January.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And we're going to put a booth on there and we're going to put a post on ahead of time and say there's been one at Chipman before the Chipman Sportsman Show. Yeah, I was unable to go to that one, but we had a booth there and I guess they said it was a really good turnout. They were scoring nonstop all day.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we plan on having a nice booth with a big backdrop set up and we're going to like to put some mounts on display, something to catch the eye yeah, because a couple years ago they had one at the guy's outfitter show and it was lined up there all day.
Speaker 1:We were there with our friend that got his deer scored and it was yeah, you're right, it was busy, holy cow. And that's the other great thing about this. Is people just curious. We had a friend last year at the Chipman Show, morgan. He had this old rack of antlers that they had in their camp.
Speaker 2:Those grandfathers or uncles Relative of his Shot shot many, many years ago.
Speaker 1:And, uh, he brought that in to get scored, which is, you know, that's cool, just curious, right, it's neat, just to see you know what would this score, just stuff like that. It's uh, it's fun, yep. And even if it doesn't make it, then you get to see like, oh wow, this deer, I didn't think it's that big and still scored you know 110 or whatever, right, and uh, yeah, and there, yeah, and there's no timeline on getting scored.
Speaker 2:A guy can score. If you have an old rack of your grandfather's that he shot in the 80s, I can still score and enter it. Yep, as long as it's after its 60-day drying period.
Speaker 1:I can score, yeah, so that's another thing, right? Yeah, that we didn't touch on. It's got to be dried for 60 days 60 days, since they shrink a little.
Speaker 2:Some do, some don't. Every deer bear, everything's different. My bear actually grew a 16th of an inch from its green score.
Speaker 1:What Must have been watering it?
Speaker 2:He got it green, scored at 19 and 10 16ths and it officially scored at 19 and 11 sixteenths and then officially scored at 19 and 11 sixteenths.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, huh, that's different.
Speaker 2:That's why when I scored yours I didn't know how much and it was close, I just roughly scored yours and I knew it was just over 17. Yeah, and you were like, oh, what a score. I'm like I'm not telling you until 60 days is up, just in case. I didn't want to get your hopes up Like, oh, it's over 17,. Then it dries and it's under 16 or under 17.
Speaker 2:You don't make it I didn't want to get your hopes up. And then I just randomly, I just printed your certificate off and sent you the picture. I'm like how does this look?
Speaker 1:You're like, oh yeah, that's right. No, I was happy. Yeah, like I said, it's neat. But yeah, what other things? There's no other big stipulations or anything with it, right? But yeah, it's got to be 60 days dry and stuff it's got to be legally shot and tagged.
Speaker 2:And I mean it's hard to prove, but if I do have speculation that it was legally shot.
Speaker 1:I can't enter it. If someone is First Nations and they are allowed to shoot deer and moose and stuff out of the regular season, are they allowed to enter it?
Speaker 2:No, I can score it, but I can't enter it Right Because it has to be tagged Now. If they bought a license and a tag, then I can score it, but I can't enter it Right Because it has to be tagged Now if they bought a license and a tag, then I can't.
Speaker 1:But that would have to be shot within season.
Speaker 2:Within the season. I have to have. No matter who it is, they have to bring a tag with them.
Speaker 1:Right, because in New Brunswick our move season has been extended to five days.
Speaker 2:It used to be three Three.
Speaker 1:It's five days now, so it's not a very long time, but if somebody you know, first Nations native person, shoots one outside of that five days though you can score it.
Speaker 2:I can still score it for them, but I'm not allowed to enter it in the book.
Speaker 1:That's fair, right. I hope you get your Boone and Crockett scoring thing because that'll be cool. If you just think about the unique animals, there's a few people around the area with some deep pockets who have been fortunate enough to go on some hunts from all over the world and it'd be neat to be able to have those people start bringing you stuff to score. You know, like I said, like that polar bear, or you have somebody bring you an elk or a musk, ox, something, right.
Speaker 2:My dream is to score a caribou. I'd love to score a caribou. Okay, yeah, a big one with a big shovel on the front. I don't actually know how to do it, but I've got a book to yes, well, tell us about your book, Lane.
Speaker 1:You brought a book with you.
Speaker 2:Well, I just wanted to talk to you about a bunch of different stuff, but I got it through the club Just one sec. Yeah, it's actually from Boone and Crockett's official site and it runs through Pope and Young as well, but it shows me how to officially score every animal in.
Speaker 1:North America. What's the title of it?
Speaker 2:Lane how to score a North American big game.
Speaker 1:It's pretty cool because before the podcast we were going. I'm going on a bighorn sheep hunt with a friend of mine in September in Alberta. So you're on there. It shows you how to score all that and cats and everything Every big game animal in North America Like the title says Muskox is in this Pronghorn caribou, whitetail and coos, deer Cows as some people call it, roosevelt elk.
Speaker 2:They're all. What is it?
Speaker 1:the North American Grand Slam, or Super Slam as some people call it, like Roosevelt elk, they're all. Well, there's two. What is it? The North American Grand Slam or Super Slam? Is it 29? I think it's 29 big game animals to complete that.
Speaker 2:I think it's 28 now, because they took polar bear off it.
Speaker 1:They took them off. Yeah, really.
Speaker 2:Because non-residents aren't allowed to hunt them anymore.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you're not a resident of one of the Northwest Territories or Nunavut, you can't shoot one.
Speaker 1:So it pretty well makes it impossible to get your— that's the only place.
Speaker 2:The polar bears are In North America.
Speaker 1:What about—because I know it's on that list Is Walrus in there.
Speaker 2:It's in this book somewhere. Is it Okay?
Speaker 1:because I know they are part of the North American Super Slam. That's an animal you don't think about much, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to look it up, because I actually don't even.
Speaker 1:Well, you should just measure the big old tusks on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you go right from the middle of the eye socket down all the way across the front of the tusk to the tip and then you do four mass measurements.
Speaker 1:Well, lane, appreciate you coming on. Thanks for having me. If anyone's curious, I don't care where you're from. It's a great book the New Brunswick Big Game 5th Edition book. You guys are working on the 6th Edition. People have been asking when's that going to come out. You got a rough timeline.
Speaker 2:I don't have a timeline, but I'm it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work and it's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:We still have a lot of fifth editions to get rid of. We'd like to push them out before we start on the sixth. And I've been going slowly, going through the record book system on the computer, reading everything, going over everything. I, the record book system on the computer, reading everything, going over everything, I found a couple errors we need to fix and we should be close. But we wanted 500 entries since the last book and the last book was 2016?.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:So we would like 500 entries. We should be close. It's not already there. But if you get an animal that you think might make the record book reach, hit up lane lewis or the new brunswick big game club on facebook or instagram and if you do have a record book, there's a a list on the front of all the measures in the province and it'll show you their number, their email and their location oh yeah yeah, so you can find the nearest one.
Speaker 1:It's a nice book too. They're all hardcover. Yep, they're all hardcover books Like uh it's, it's nice, it's good, it's fun. If you're bored during the winter or something, just flip through, read some stories, see some critters, you know Uh.