Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Hunting Giant Canadian Moose With Terance Boss
The vast wilderness of Northern Alberta holds some of the most magnificent bull moose in North America, and few know this terrain better than Terance Boss. In this captivating conversation, Terance shares his journey from hunting as a 7-year-old boy alongside his father to becoming the owner of Boss Outfitting, one of Alberta's premier moose hunting operations.
What makes this discussion particularly fascinating is Terance's deep knowledge of how the landscape and wildlife have transformed over decades. He describes a remarkable shift - how moose populations have migrated from the northern bush to prairie regions, while whitetail deer have expanded dramatically northward following human-created access routes. These seismic lines and oil exploration roads created new habitat edges that fundamentally changed wildlife distribution patterns across Alberta.
Terance's approach to guiding is refreshingly client-focused. Unlike many outfitters, he exclusively offers one-on-one guiding, pairing each hunter with their own guide to maximize success. With his team boasting over 150 years of combined moose hunting experience, it's no wonder they maintain an impressive 90% success rate. The hunting experience he describes - from the canvas tent camps with electricity to the meticulous planning that goes into each day's hunt - reflects his commitment to quality.
Perhaps most telling is his philosophy toward harvested animals: "Once we shoot that moose, I work for the moose now." This respect for the animals and commitment to proper meat handling speaks volumes about the ethics driving his operation. For hunters dreaming of their first Canadian moose hunt, Terrence offers invaluable practical advice, including why you should bring your familiar rifle rather than purchasing something new for the occasion.
Whether you're planning your own moose hunting adventure or simply fascinated by the dynamics of wildlife management in Canada's northern regions, this episode provides rare insights from someone who has witnessed these ecosystems evolve firsthand. Hear the full story by visiting bossoutfitting.com or finding them on Facebook.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
this is hunts on outfitting podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken meyer. I love everything hunting, the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories totos. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. All right, welcome, and thanks for joining us on this awesome podcast, this episode here.
Speaker 1:We're fired up and ready to go, because we are taking you to Northern Alberta to Boss Outfitting with Terrence Boss. Okay, terrence is in Northern Alberta. He specializes in moose, big moose. He's going to tell us all about how he got into guiding some of the other animals that he guides for, and then we talk about his favorite animal to hunt, and that's the Canadian moose. Uh, these guys his, him himself and his crew, crew we get to hear these guys take it seriously. They do a great job.
Speaker 1:If you guys want to go on their website, boss outfitting, you can, or on facebook, boss outfitting, to follow them there and see the caliber of animals that they're taking. They have guys from all over the world. Come and hunt with them. He's going to tell us how the hunt works, what to expect, what you're going to see. All that it's very interesting. It's a lot of fun to listen to. Also, if you're looking to get in contact with me to come on the podcast, suggest somebody for it, or just give me a shout out, say, hey, you're wrong on this, or I've got an idea for that on this, or I've got an idea for that you can. At huntsonoutfitting at gmailcom, give me an email or you can follow us Hunts on Outfitting on Facebook or myself, ken Mara, we're going to get right into it.
Speaker 1:Terrence, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. I know you're a busy guy Lots going on. You know you've got moose season coming up, but I want to talk to me. I know you're a busy guy. Uh, lots going on. You know you've got moose season coming up, um, but I want to talk about, uh, you know where you live and then what was your, your first start into hunting yourself? Like, who took you?
Speaker 2:well, I'm sure it's. Like most other people, it's their, their dad or their grandfather. For me, for me, it was my dad, my uncle and my dad and one of my cousins would go out hunting every year and, of course, moose is what you know we all wanted. It was an over-the-counter kind of tag and you all hope to get a moose and it was really important that you got one because the meat was a big deal right and we didn't really know what we were doing. Most guys, you know there's some people that knew what they were doing, but we just kind of got lucky at the beginning and, um, we're just hopeful to bring home a moose. I think I bet you I wasn't seven, eight years old going out there. Oh okay, it was the greatest, greatest time of my life, like as a kid man. I look back now and think I wish every kid got to do that, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know yeah just to experience that.
Speaker 2:So that was your early start into hunting, was going out with your dad and your grandfather have you always been kind of up in northern Alberta, canada, right, yeah, so my dad's family is from northwest of Edmonton, about an hour. And if you go about another hour northwest of Edmonton you get into some pretty solid crown land or government land and that's where most of the moose were back in the day. All the private land, the moose were all poached out. There was no moose in the prairie parkland country because they were all basically hunted out by locals because people needed to eat, right, it was. It was pretty heavily hunted. So we had to go way out to the bush and the bush is where all the moose were, where, oddly enough today there's more moose in the prairies now than there is in the far north.
Speaker 2:But so we would travel that jeez, vehicles were crappy. Then, you know, we'd drive two, three hours and and get out to the bush and hopefully you could get a moose. And you know, atvs were not. Uh, you know two-wheel drive hondas, they didn't even make a four-wheel drive. Then guys were riding trikes and these were the guys with money had those machines. Most guys would hunt on foot and then pack their moose out. So it was very limited, the access wasn't great. But uh, you know. I remember trying to learn to call moose when I was a kid, and there were so many moose that you didn't really have to know how to call. You could get lucky and still get one, you know.
Speaker 1:Not like today. So you think they've really caught on today.
Speaker 2:I don't know that they've caught on to to to like calling you. Mean I don't think they've caught on to to that. I think what's happened is the moose population has changed, so there's better access, there's better equipment. Atvs uh allowed us to access the farthest reaches of some of the remote territory and, uh, the hunting pressure has changed things as well, as, of course, predators use the access as well.
Speaker 2:So in alberta is a little bit different. There's a lot of oil field exploration, right, and so, until you've seen it, if you just google it, google anywhere in the in the wilderness in alberta, get on google maps and look at that, and there's these straight lines that go for miles and those are seismic lines. So, uh, you know, in the sixties and seventies there was a lot of oil field exploration and they just take a big old D six dozer and put the blade up and drive and knock timber down and then the second machine would come and clear the trail and then they'd run some seismic shots with some other machines. Pretty soon you have this wonderful trail and in the winter you could drive it with an ATV like nobody's business. It was clear as day.
Speaker 2:So all these access points allowed us to enter some territory that had never been hunted before, and that was up till about 2000, and in the 2000s is when they kind of stopped doing that and started to do more helicopter, seismic and different means of looking for oil. So the access is is reducing now on these cut lines, but even today we still hunt those cut lines from the 70s, you know, and you guys are still traveling them trails open and stuff, just to be able to access it and go in yep, somebody has, either forestry has or hunters have, or you know who knows what kind of exploration has gone down there.
Speaker 2:But there's tons of access and so that's how we accessed it back then and I think that alone helped us and other predators reduce the moose in the north. But I'm sure there's other reasons. But the hunting was easy back then. There was lots of moose. The limiting factor was how do we have atvs? Can we get in there? Can we get a moose out? Some guys wouldn't even hunt more than half a mile from any road because they just couldn't get the moose out right today you go wherever you want, you get an argo right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then when you grew up hunting in that area too, I mean, was there much for white-tailed deer in there, and has that changed? You think they've kind of pushed the moose out?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I don't know that. I don't know if the white-tails chased them out, but I remember in the early 80s when you saw a white-tail up in that far north country, you were shocked. It saw a whitetail up in that far north country, you were shocked. Yeah, it's just big heavy timber, lots of willows, uh, giant spruce and aspen trees. But as soon as the oil companies came in and started making some roads and trails, you got a lot of grass and clover growing and those whitetails moved in and I think it was about 83 or so. We saw a whitetail deer and there were some other moose hunters that seen it. We all kind of stopped on this road and we're all staring at this deer. Everybody was shocked to see a whitetail.
Speaker 2:And then, I would venture to say, in about 2006 in that same area, we were seeing like 150 deer a day whitetails. So the habitat changed and they just exploded in there. Habitat changed and they just exploded in there and today it's back down to. You know, if you're going to go bomb around on those roads, you'll see 30 deer a day is a good day. Um, so it's, it's come back down, but it's not really natural like natural territory for white tails until they open those oil fields up.
Speaker 2:And so there's some people that think that because the white tails are there, it brings in more predators, and the predators sometimes prefer moose, and so, uh, they do something called alternative prey management. So what they'll do is they'll go in there and wipe out all of the white tails. Now wipe out all of the let's I hate say non-n but non-traditional species in that area. There's always a few, but now there's a lot. So they're going to wipe out all those whitetails. They figure that's going to reduce the wolf numbers. I'm not so sure that that's that's accurate, but you know there's a lot of people in that, in that train of thought right now.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard, it's always hard to say trying to manage predators and stuff. Um, you know, I want to uh kind of get into, before we get onto moose too much more. It's like, how did you you've got your Terrence boss boss outfitting? Um, how did you go from your hunting out with your grandfather and your dad and uh, and then it just progressed obviously. And then I'm always curious how people start outfitting. It's like we were talking earlier a lot of people hunt, not a lot of people outfit, right yeah, um, I have a pretty interesting story.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I loved hunting, of course, and that's how you gotta start. You gotta love it, yeah and uh, you think there's there's this perception that these outfitters are getting rich shooting all the moose. That's not quite the case. I mean, you got to love it, you really do. And so I hunted a lot when I was a kid and it turns out that I wanted to do something with fish and wildlife. So I decided I want to be a game warden.
Speaker 2:So I went to school, I took biological sciences, renewable resource management and completed that, and I was going to be a fish and wildlife officer. So I started volunteering with you know different fish and wildlife officers and it was fun until I realized that all the work happens in hunting season. Right, all your big days are in hunt season. So I had to make a decision. Excuse me, you might have to fix that, but all the big, all the big jobs happen in hunting season. So I thought, well, option B is I'm going to put out an email and I emailed every outfitter that had an email in Alberta, and I think there was about 30 outfitters that had an email address and half of them offered me a job because they knew I was in school biology and renewable resource management.
Speaker 2:So I took the very first job I could. That sounded cool, right? You don't just take the average job when everybody's asking you to work.
Speaker 2:I got in a helicopter and they flew me in and dropped me in the bush by myself in the middle of nowhere. Okay, yeah, if we're if we're gonna do that today, I'd be super spooky about it, but back then, when you're a kid, you just let it rip right. So they dumped me with this helicopter. I set this camp up and didn't make. I wasn't afraid at at all. Today I'm a little bit smarter. We should have been a little more leery about that, right, yeah, but that was my first guiding job, wow. And after that I decided you know what I like hunting too much, and if people are making a living hunting and guiding people. When I was 19 years old, I was pretty good at calling moose and I figured I'm as good as any of these guys that have been here for 15 years and I probably wasn't as good, but I thought I was. So I thought, heck, we'll give it a shot. And that's kind of how I got started.
Speaker 1:Wow, I just went out on my own. That's neat. They literally, I guess you could say threw you to the wolves when you first got started. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly you made it, you came out from it. Was that you think that was kind of like the test thing or that was just the way that Outfitter was set up? That you know, this is what you do we drop you off in the middle of nowhere and set up camp.
Speaker 2:Well, the truth is, when you're an outfitter and you're taking individual, unique clients not everybody's the same. This is not whitewater rafting, yeah Right. That outfitter and I do it too sets up to accommodate a client or a set of clients, and he had a helicopter camp set up for these guys. So one helicopter flies in every 10 days and, uh, I was on the first one, hunters came on the second one that day, and so those hunts are set up that way.
Speaker 2:Now you're always going by the seat of your pants because things go wrong all the time. You could fly in there and not find a place to land. Right, you could fly in there and find out there's no water in the river. There's all kinds of things you could find. So you're always, in a way, you're always kind of winging it, and and the guys that are best at winging it are the guys that do the best work, right, like those are the best outfitters, the guys that can deal with uh, problems that show up and uh, in front of a client, you got to look like you know what you're doing and you got to not lose your cool right, like the river's dry. What are we going to do?
Speaker 1:Like this is a problem. Well, you deal with nature and animals, the two most wild animals, the two most unpredictable things possible, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so throwing me to the wolves, I don't know. I mean, I guess you could have thought of it that way, but I thought it was the coolest thing ever Getting dropped by a helicopter and going moose hunting. Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So I mean you did that. That went well. You realized, like I said, game warden, busy times, hunting season it was definitely going to limit the amount of time you were out.
Speaker 2:So you guide for a lot of things, and then you have your trap line thing, which is really cool. But what? What do you guide for? What's your main uh specialty, I guess? Well, I, I absolutely love moose.
Speaker 2:Moose hunting is absolutely my favorite thing, okay, yeah, yeah, it is, it is, and it's probably because it's the first thing I ever really hunted for. Um, I think I shot a deer before I shot a moose. I really think about it. But I mean, deer, deer were never my focus when I was young, but, and even my family, a deer doesn't feed very many people. But secondly, I hunt bears a lot and because it's an off-season thing and if I have a choice of hunting or getting a, let's call it a real job. I don't want a real job, so we're going to go bear hunting. So bears is the second thing I really focused on. We put a few guys through doing that and then in the winter which is also kind of an off-season thing we do we hunt wild bison. There's some wood bison roaming around up here in the north that it's open for hunting and, uh, take advantage of that situation all winter whenever we can get out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you guys are practiced up to be able to get those things out. After, uh, dealing with moose, you know all fall, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Eh yeah, well, difference is the moose on. No, there's no snow and then the yeah, you have water to deal with. Where bison is, everything's frozen and you can snowmobile across something in you know 30 seconds. It takes you an hour to drive around with an ATV, so it's a whole different set of problems at minus 30, minus 40.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know. I'm glad you said that what your favorite animal to hunt was, because I mean you guys, if you people go on your facebook page and stuff boss outfitting or you guys have a really great website, that's well done, boss outfitting um, you guys get massive bear, enormous, uh, moose, bison, white-tailed deer. I mean, what do you say, you guys? You had one client shoot, was it 190?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got a few in the 190s over the years. Wow, of course Alberta's not at its peak right now for size, but they're still very, very good genetics. And you do run into, you know, guys shooting 190-inch whitetails here now and then, and like the absolute truth is, I didn't shoot a whitetail myself last year and I don't think and I mean I don't want to sound like one of those guys, but I don't need to eat a deer, but I love hunting, so I'm going to hunt every day whenever I can, and if I don't see a deer over 170, I probably won't shoot it. I would rather let them grow and and become something real big, you know. And, uh, last year I didn't shoot one, but I did see a couple in that 175 range, probably without exaggerating too much. Yeah, there, there, there's some good deer here there is.
Speaker 1:I mean Alberta is known for having, you know, large, really large bucks, but I mean bear too, cause you guys have a lot of a color phase bear there as well.
Speaker 2:Well, so that's yes, in some locations there's a lot of colored phase bears. So if, if I was, if I was a hunter looking for a bear hunt, that's the questions I'd ask is what is your ratio of color phase bears? And hopefully whoever you're talking to is going to answer truthfully, and I'll tell you that I focus on big bears. I don't necessarily look for colored bears, although we do get some. The ratio of colored bears where I am is about one in 20, which I think is pretty low. There's other areas that are, like you know, four and four and 10, 40%, um, pretty good color ratios. The difference is a lot of people hunt in those areas and the overall size of those bears is kind of harvested down a bit. And so to get a seven and a half foot color phase bear out there is is pretty tough where in my territory to get a seven foot bear. It's exciting and I'm happy to get a seven foot bear, but it's not uncommon at all. Yeah Well, it's a regular occurrence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's funny you say that Cause I mean, looking back, I follow a lot of outfitters and uh from Saskatchewan, alberta, on Facebook and stuff and uh, true, I've never I don't know if I've ever seen a really big color face bear, seen some huge black bears like fully black, but color face.
Speaker 2:You're right, they don't seem to get that big because people are eager to uh, to take them yeah, exactly, if you're sitting in a stand and 18 bears come into your stand in two days and there's a colored bear that's six foot two and only one, you're probably going to take that bear, if you're allowed to take two bears and a six foot two bear is a good bear. In a lot of places here it's kind of average-ish, yeah, but you're coming here, it's a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. Yeah, sure you. You take that six foot two color phase bear and then maybe try for the giant for your second tag and hopefully over seven feet yeah, exactly, um, all right, so that.
Speaker 1:So the moose hunting is your favorite, so I want to talk about, I mean, the moose here in new brunswick, and I know it's different all over canada, in the us. I mean our moose season here is, uh, when if you're a, it's on the draw system, the lottery system, and if you're a non-resident, you have to come with an outfitter, and our season used to be three days, now it's five. Uh, we hunt them in choppings and swamps, a lot of calling, you guys, it's a. It's a bit different in alberta.
Speaker 2:You guys have a much longer season, right yeah, the seasons are broke up but generally speaking, if you wanted to hunt moose in alberta as a resident you could start most places september first, I think even in august there's a couple seasons last few days of august it'll open. So by september 1st you can start archery hunting in a lot of places. Um, and then there's it kind of graduates. There's some units that open on september 7th for archery and uh, once the season opens it usually stays open until november 30th. So depending on what territory you're in, the season can go from september 1st to november 30th. Wow and uh, a lot of time yeah, that is uh.
Speaker 1:So you're saying what you guide, is it what? Roughly about 20 hunters a year for moose?
Speaker 2:yeah, I like. I'm in the range right now about 20, 18 to 22. Depends on the year and the group sizes that's a lot.
Speaker 1:Uh, that I know what it's like here getting ready for a moose hunt for one. I mean everyone's coming together and getting bikes and trucks and trailers and everything ready to go, all this scouting and everything I mean you doing that that's, that's a lot. So, uh, could you walk us through? I guess when someone comes on a moose hunt with you sort of what a typical hunt, if you can uh, it's going to look like yeah, absolutely like it's from a from a hunter's perspective.
Speaker 2:So, if we're starting right at the beginning, I talked to these guys on the phone. I talked to a few guys today and they don't really know me like the new guys don't know me. Repeat clients are, they're like buddies and they're easy to deal with, but the new guys are nervous. They don't know who you are. They know they're taking a chance. Right, it's hard Like I don't want to be in their position choosing an outfitters not going to be easy because you got to get the right fit. But so I talked to him a few times. We get feeling comfortable with the situation and there's a lot of money there at stake. You know this could be a once in a lifetime hunt for these guys, so I try to make them feel like this is the right, this is the right place, this is the right thing to do. Um, you're gonna have a good time and you're gonna get you know as close as what you paid for as we can get, because moose are still wild animals, right. But so once we get these guys comfortable with the situation, uh, I'll meet them at an at a town near us, hopefully within an hour.
Speaker 2:Most guys drive up so they can take the meat home. The odd guys will fly. Uh, flying with meat across to the states is pretty difficult. Flying within canada with some frozen moose meat isn't so bad. But most of my clients are out of country so they'll drive in so they can take their meat home. I'll meet them, we'll make sure their licenses are right, get them into camp. Um, you know everybody's nervous and they're eager and they want to go hunt and my guides are just like like a team of horses. They just want to go Right yeah.
Speaker 2:And if the season's open, sometimes we'll cut them loose the day before the hunt's supposed to start. We'll let them go because just we want to hunt. That's what they're we're there for. Um, if the season's not open, we're all watching our watches until the bell rings, you know. And so everybody's off in their own direction and each hunter gets one guide. I I prefer to do that. Most guys charge more money for that. I just don't even offer a two-on-one hunt. Every guide has their individual hunter to deal with and we work as a team. We all set up, we set up our days together. We have a group scrum at like five o'clock in the morning. All the guides know what's and the hunters don't see this. They're probably sleeping still. We all decide where we're going, we check the wind, we know what we're doing. We make sure we don't run into each other, because if you do, if you're running into your own guides and you're calling each other, you look like a bunch of clowns. That's not what you want that.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing, it's a good point, right?
Speaker 2:that's something to mention and it happened, happens all the time. The funny part is the client would never know if that's another moose or not. But it's the right thing to do is get those hunters apart, get them, them all, in good position so they all have a chance at a moose in the first morning, you know. So we'll head out, we'll do our hunt in the morning and, uh, if I have six hunters in the bush and they're hunting seven days, somebody's probably going to shoot a moose that first day. The odds are in your favor, right, cause half of your hunters that come up just want to shoot moose, so bad. So the first bull they see is going to drop. The other guys are going to get a little picky and let one or two go before they get a little nervous and they'll take one, you know, or wait till a giant comes.
Speaker 2:So after that first day there's usually a moose on the ground. So the text messages start flying around 11 o'clock and we set up a plan to go pull this moose out. So whatever hunters want to go and help haul this moose home, they're welcome to come. So we'll run out maybe 5, 6 ATVs, we'll clear a trail, we'll get to where this moose is, we'll try to haul them out whole at all costs because I want to keep the meat clean to me. Another outfitter told me this once years ago. I have a lot of respect for him. He says once we shoot that moose, he said I quit working for you. He says, like I work for the moose now right yeah, that's good, that's very that's respectful right.
Speaker 2:I find, yeah, not always enough respect, you know, sometimes with the animals that we take, and I like that a lot yeah, and so I don't say that because some clients could take it the wrong way, but it's, it's how we think, right, like when that moose is on the ground, it doesn't. If you got sore feet, that's okay, you stay here, we'll deal with it. And that moose is getting back to camp. That meat's going to be as high quality as absolutely possible, and so we'll haul that moose home and we get them in the tree and, of course, if there's six hunters, one guy gets a moose. Most guys are high-fiving even if they don't know the guy. So we're all winning, right.
Speaker 2:We always call this moose home, so we get them in the tree and we get them skin skinned up and that guide and that hunter get to deal with that moose from there on out, and the other hunters, when the, when the weather starts to cool in the evening, head back out. Or whenever the weather or the opportunity changes for the calling sessions to be good, that's when we head out. So it could be we could call all day if the weather's right, but typically three hours in the middle of the day are dead water. It's made for scouting or having a nap and getting ready for when the moose hunting is good, because you don't want to stir up those moose when they're having a nap. You don't want to stir them up and and get them aware of your presence in the middle of the day when things aren't going to happen for you. So we try to stay out of the good territory in the middle of the day. So, uh, that's kind of a, that's kind of a day's hunting yeah, it's same here.
Speaker 1:I guess the afternoons are definitely a lot slower and you know, just kind of just go, but don't be, like you said, trying to rile them up at that time.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not that we don't hunt the evening.
Speaker 1:We do, I meant the afternoon. Sorry, yeah, just the afternoon. Yeah, the afternoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So if you're going to have some activity, and you've got to remember, guys are traveling from a long ways, so sometimes when you sit down at 1130 and it's hot, they want to go hunting. So sometimes you got to take them on a tour just to keep them busy. But the truth, the truth is it's extremely rare, um, to get a moose, but you know, between 11 and 3, uh, it does happen and it's possible. So it's okay to go. Look, just stay out of your prime area, like go to some area that it's not something you plan on hunting that evening, because you'll probably just, you know, disturb it too much right, right, um, you know, I like that.
Speaker 1:You said that too. It's one guide, one hunter. You don't even offer anything different. Because I mean, you see, I see that a lot. When, uh, you know you're looking at different hunts and all that, no matter what the big game species, they'll say, um, oh well, it's, you know, it's two hunters per guide or it's you know this much more, for one hunter, one guide. But I like that it should be. When you're hunting something especially like that, like a moose, you know you want to have just one-on-one yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2:It's always an upcharge to get your own guide and stuff with most places, yeah, but I think my objective is that everybody gets to shoot at a move right, and if, if I gotta, if I gotta suck up a little bit of the expense and have an extra guide kicking around or two, as opposed to other camps. That's what I'm going to do and I want to see I I want to see 100. I know it's not always, you know you can't expect to have 100 success every year, but man, we're running some of the camps at 90. That's for a long time, yep. So what happens, though? And part there's a lot of reasons. I mean, we have I have five guides that have been guiding for me since day one, since the day I started, and, uh, that gives you over a hundred and some years of moose hunting experience, when the four of us are 150 years of experience when five of us are sitting around a fire, like. So that's part of it, but another part of it is when that first hunter tags out and that moose is dealt with and it's under control, that guy, that's kind of freed up, he's going to help the other guys, cause I don't know if you've had this experience.
Speaker 2:But if you go and call a moose and everything's going great, that's wonderful, you're a winner. But if you go out and there's moose there and you're calling and you're failing and they're just not answering, you start to lose your confidence, right, and it's just sometimes just to get another guide with you to say, hey, just, you got this, it sounds good, everything you're doing is right, you're just having bad days. Sometimes you need that backup, and so whoever's struggling the most which could be anybody it could be the most veteran moose hunting guide out there it could be struggling and it's like it's in your head and you start to give up on your moose sets too early and you walk away from moose that you shouldn't be walking away from. To get that extra guide to come with you, just for that extra level of confidence to know that you're doing it right. That's shooting moose, that's going to change your game. Just to have that extra guy, oh yeah, big time, and that's what matters.
Speaker 2:I tell my new guys I'm like there's one thing you need to know when you're calling moose when you sit down, you got to know your wind and you got to make sure it's going away from the moose Right. Number two you have to believe he. You're going to walk away from that moose every time You're going to give up. You have to believe they hear you and that's it's the truth.
Speaker 1:Well, let me, you know, that's a great way to put it and it's it's awesome to hear too that you have the same guys I mean as an outfitter, uh, people that have repeat clients. They come back and see the same outfitters. That shows, you know, that's good, right, you don't have a high turnover and, um, yeah, it's probably handy too that you guys know how each other works and what everyone's like and stuff and uh, just helps things go, you know, smoother when you're dealing, like I said, with you know, wilderness and animals, the weather, uh guys coming, you know, do you recommend bringing their own guns, is it? Do you find it's a big deal to bring it across the border?
Speaker 2:Oh, border crossing is nothing, it's so simple. As long as you're not a felon or something, and if you can cross the border under regular circumstances, you'll have no problems bringing a firearm in. So anywhere in Canada we're all under the same law. You can bring a firearm in with a firearm declarations form as a matter of fact I'm sure it could change at any time, so a guy has to really look at the current regulations. But you can bring four firearms in every time you come. So a shotgun, two rifles, yeah.
Speaker 1:So guys coming in, they're talking to you on the phone. You know I'm curious like, all right, I've got whatever gun. I'm thinking about buying a new gun for this occasion. You know, what should I get? What would you recommend?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I'm glad you asked that question. Maybe we talked about this before. But my recommendation on a new rifle is don't do it, don't get a new rifle. Yeah, I know you want to Sure, make an excuse. Go buy a rifle, tell, tell everybody around you you need a new rifle. That's cool. But that's not my advice. You can even blame it on me. Go buy a 338, but bring the rifle that you shoot every day. Because here's what happens bring a. I don't care if it's a 270, a 30 out, six, whatever. Any 30 caliber is fine.
Speaker 2:Most of our moose are under 50 yards. Some are up to 150, which is pretty close. The problem is a moose is going to come in there to 20 yards. He's going to poke his head around the tree and he's going to give you about a four inch square to shoot through. You know he's legal, you know it's a safe shot. And here you are and you're going to miss and shoot a big poplar tree or something. Miss and shoot a big poplar tree or something and guys get nervous and they start shaking and then they need to reload and they can't find their safety.
Speaker 2:So if you don't have, if you have, a new rifle I need. I don't want that. I want you to feel very comfortable with what you're shooting. I want you to feel natural about it. I know it sounds funny when I say, hey, I don't want you to miss a 20-yard shot, but it happens often. Oh, yeah, yeah, a moose comes charging in and they're snot blowing and trees moving, and then you see one of his eyes and like a 50 inch rack poking out and when he takes two steps you're gonna have a shot, but that's it. That's the only thing you're getting.
Speaker 2:And here you are with a new rifle and you forgot your safety on, or you forgot to put your clip in. Yeah, or whatever. If I could tell you stories, that's a whole other podcast. We could talk about how many guys forget their bullets because they have a clip now, or whatever. Yeah, bring, every one of my guys has a story. Hey, I forgot my bullets when a moose is standing there. Every guide you know. So bring the rifle that you shoot deer with, maybe not a .243. That might be a little small, it's doable and it's legal. But you know, .270, .30-06, 7mm caliber doesn't really matter, just be able to hit what you're shooting at.
Speaker 2:And secondly, yeah, shot placement Make sure you can hit what you're shooting. Make sure you're comfortable reloading your safety, a place that makes sure you can hit where you're shooting. Make sure you're comfortable reloading your safety. And secondly, if a wolf walks out at 250 yards, 300 yards, we're allowed to hunt wolves all the time, like except at night. You know the can't shoot at night rule. But um, you're gonna have to try. He's not coming closer. So kind of know where you're gonna shooting, have to try, he's not coming closer. So kind of know where you're going to shoot out to 300 yards, you know. And if a wolf walks out, at least you won't regret giving it a shot.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. I mean, what a cherry on top. If you do get a moose, you know to have a nice wolf. What is the wolf situation out there? I mean, you hear all this stuff. What's going on in the US with the wolves seems to be getting a little out of control. How do you find it is there in moose country? I mean, they've always been there, the wolves, so is the population more in check?
Speaker 2:Oh man, you're going to hear a different story from every person you talk to, but I think the way it's happening right now is some units, some areas, are getting overrun with wolves and, yes, it could possibly be from the whitetails supplementing their survival that weren't there before and that's the alternative prey deal. But wolves are very prolific in a lot of areas. Right now in Alberta we have a caribou problem as well, so the government's taking measures to reduce wolf populations wherever there's caribou, because the caribou are basically the brink of extinction. Some of the herds and a lot of people blame it on bad habitat or habitat management, but the truth of the matter is the last caribou will be eaten by a wolf. It won't be killed by logging equipment. So to keep the predators under control is a good idea, and back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, wolves were worth a good dollar, so trappers were really putting in a lot of effort. Well, right now a wolf is $ two, three hundred bucks on the fur market, so the trappers aren't really throwing a lot of time after those.
Speaker 2:With fuel expenses being at a well, I hate to say it's expensive at a dollar 13 a liter. I don't know what you guys are paying, uh, quite a bit more. I saw a dollar 13 today and I thought, man, that's still high, but you feel your snow? Yeah, and that's pretty good as opposed to the last two years. Right, yeah, but nobody's killing wolves, because it there's no money in it and used to be a very, you know, viable industry. So it's basically we're getting a few here and there, so the wolf population is very strong in a lot of locations. Um, this is part of the reason. In the prairies in southern alberta, let's say, if you look at a map from red deer, all red deer district, all the way north to edmonton, there's piles of moose because there's no wolves. Yeah, right, very few.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's such an, you know, top apex predator that are unbelievably good at what they do, and yeah, you just hear about them, you know, putting a beating on some areas. So yeah, I was just kind of wondering about that, because I, you know, I know it's not a new thing to Alberta though, either, so wasn't sure if it was a little better rather than them being introduced.
Speaker 2:Well, the population fluctuates with the ungulate population. So you got to decide what you like, because the environment here has been changed right. I mean, there's oil field, roads, there's logging I'm sure you have. There's nothing really natural about where you are there either. And if you decide that you want your moose population to be a little bit better or enhanced, you can augment and manipulate the situation to allow more moose on the landscape. You can just reduce wolf wolf numbers, reduce the cow harvest and your moose population will rise quickly. So you have to decide what you want and I think right now, knowing that wolves exist is pretty important to a lot of people that don't hunt. And there's a lot of wolves out there, and there's a lot of bears out there, and there's a lot of bears out there. There's more bears than you can possibly imagine. Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen videos of people doing baits in Alberta, you know, and there's just there's bears.
Speaker 2:There's like 20 bears surrounding them so I keep real good statistics of my bear baits, when they're hit, how they're hit, how much bait we're using very, very uh organized big chart. There's a big chart in my guide shack on the wall. The hunters don't really get to see it but we we mark it all down and and I'm telling you the average bear bait uh, on a good night of sightings we'll see six to nine bears, different bears, the best bait this year there was 19 or 20 that come into the guy which could be a mistake, like he could have counted one a couple times. But if a guy walks into camp and says he saw 72 bears, you know you got to take that with a grain of salt. But if a guy walks in and says I saw 11 bears, this one's missing an ear, this one's got a lamp, this one's got three cubs right and they kind of got a handle on it. I'd record that. And it's six bears to a bait every night. That's kind of the average.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot, though. I mean all your different baits and areas. I mean that and areas, I mean that's uh, that's a lot of bear, it's a lot of mouths to feed tons, tons of bears. Yeah, uh, when, when hunters come into the moose camp, what uh like, do you have them staying out in tents? You're not doing the helicopter thing like how, how's it set up? I guess what's camp like?
Speaker 2:so I haven't done a helicopter hunt in a while. That was just the first one I ever did like working for a guy. But how my camps are right now is I have a mobile camp. I have all canvas tents, 14 by 16s, and a couple of hunters stay in each one, or a group of hunters might be two, might be four hunters in a group kind of stay together Because you want to stay with your buddies and carry on and part and whatever and make fun of each other. Right, it's part of the whole deal. And so we we put all the groups together and and individuals are get a lot of husbands and wives. They get their own tent and we'll try, we'll try to put it off a little ways so they don't have to listen to the Kai and the boys getting rowdy of the kai and the boys getting rowdy whatever they're doing. And then we have a separate cook tent. It's a larger tent. It can accommodate probably 15 people eating at any given time, so that's where all the food is prepared. That's kind of a social area. And then the guides stay in their own tent off in the other direction.
Speaker 2:Somewhere we have wire. They call their brewery cable. You can hang lights from it and stuff. It runs through every tent. It runs off the generator, so every tent's got a plug in it for nowadays, phone charging we never. We never had Google maps or nothing when we started, but we always had power and now we can charge all of our gear. So that's kind of how the camp is set up. Typically, we can drive to camp on good weather, and the reason I want that is so if we have to go to town we have to take a moose to a butcher because it's cold, too warm. They have to cool it down. Then at least we can get out of there, take care of that moose and have it processed properly, rather than hang in a tree when it's too warm. That's sort of how the camp's set up.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah. So I mean they're getting a really cool experience. I mean especially people that are coming from areas way warm Say someone's coming from Florida or something to be out there in the northern Alberta bush and moose camp. I mean, what a you know, it's amazing, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Well, you got to remember these guys sit at home. They've deer hunted florida, let's say little tiny 60 pound whitetails, you know. And so they come up here and just to see a whitetail doe that's 190 pounds they're shocked. They're like that's got to be a buck without antlers. I'm like no, that's just a big old fat doe. She's been eating out of a greenery somewhere. But for them to come and do this, you got to remember they've been thinking about this their whole life. Right, a moose hunt is? I don't know, I'm sure there's something in Canada the hunters here dream about doing. Maybe go to Africa. But you think about it and you dream about shooting moose your whole life, because you've watched it on TV and you know what it is for me life, because you watch it on tv and you know what it is for me I. I used to dream about bass fishing. I never saw a bass until I was 30 years old right and so you watch bill dance and all these guys fishing.
Speaker 2:You're like I gotta catch a bass. So you go to florida and the first bass I caught was like nine and a half pounds. I had no idea. It was even big. I had no clue. And so these guys come to canada and they shoot a moose with four points, or they shoot a moose that's 50 inches wide. Most guys are ecstatic with anything, because it's just this experience of a lifetime and they may never get to do it again, right?
Speaker 1:So very cool. Yeah Well, I was going to ask too. I mean it must be amazing. I'm sure you have a lot of guys come in that have have never seen a moose before, and for someone that's never seen a moose before and for someone that's never seen a moose in person before, I mean they are, they look like a I don't know dinosaur or something. They're huge. They look like out of this world. The first time you you see one up close and personal, it's amazing yeah, that big nose on them.
Speaker 2:And even the more shocking thing is, and why people miss them is when that moose you can't see that moose till he's 30 yards away usually, and when he pops out of 20 yards and the trees are moving. This is why guys miss, like I've had guys miss at 10 yards with a rifle. You know they're shaking and the moose is there and they can't. You know they're just losing it and then that's cool, whatever. I mean, it's part of part of the excitement of the whole thing.
Speaker 1:I you know well know, well, yeah, exactly, we just tried. So yeah, I mean it, it, the people I find too that haven't been around them. You know, I've still find it amazing how something that big, with you know, sometimes a great big rack on them can just barrel through the woods Like you so quick. It's unreal.
Speaker 2:Oh, and not make a sound and not make a noise, like I tell my guides. I tell my guides, if you hear a stick break when you're calling, it could be nothing. If you hear two sticks that break in the same direction, chances are a moose is breaking those on purpose, like two or three or four in one direction. Okay, this moose is actually responding to your call. They don't always grunt, because when they do, the wolves show up right or whatever.
Speaker 2:There's predators out there that are listening for them, just like we are. And so when you hear that moose coming and they poke their head out at 20 yards, but you heard three sticks break 500 yards back like that shocks me that a 50-inch rack won't break a stick all the way in yeah, right, yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how they do it and, um, yeah, like I said, people that have just never seen a moose in person before must be amazing. But I mean, I'm sure you have guys from all over that come like a lot of stuff there they've probably never seen like even. Uh, do you guys see many mule deer in that area?
Speaker 2:Yeah, southern Alberta is actually a real stronghold still for mule deer. Peace country puts out some really good ones. Um, the biggest mule deer in the world came from Alberta. I don't know if I don't know if many people really pay attention to that, but just west of Edmonton, here a couple, a couple hours, 200 kilometers, uh5 inches that deer was, yeah, and I don't know if it'll ever be beat. But the genetics of the genetics of those mule deer that live up in that, in that essentially hilly moose country, yeah, are just great genetics. Not so many like the mule deer. Population has shifted again. It's more, uh, the best mule deer hunt is still in the prairies. Uh, and the peace river country. Peace river is a big agricultural area and there's still some great mule deer there. Um, but swan hill slave lake valley view used to have great moose hunting and great mule deer hunting and now it just seems to be moose and white tails. The mule deer are at a minimum now. Not sure why.
Speaker 1:Not sure why. And in your area too, I mean, do you guys have a lot of elk moving around there? Are there more agriculture areas?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so an elk is a grazer, so they're going to need something on the ground where a mule deer is both browser, more so right, and a moose is all browser. So when you're looking for elk you need to find some decent grass. And when the snow gets three feet deep and those elk are struggling, they really love to find the guy with the best bales in the country and conquer down in his yard. So there's, if it wasn't for farmers being in that peace country, those elk would struggle and uh, even right now there's like almost a damage control hunt happening in peace river.
Speaker 2:I looked at the tag this morning and I think there's got to be two or three thousand antlerless tags in some of those units for cows. Really, yeah, and like it's not a very high success hunt. Don't get like they have to give that many tags because we're hunting private land. You can't always get access. The elk are always on two or three different farmers in fe and maybe that farmer will let you hunt, maybe not. So unless you really do your research in advance, you're not going to be successful. So when they give out 2,000 tags, I don't really know what the success rate is, but it's not 100, I'll tell you that I'd venture to say it's closer to 30 or 40%, if that.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow yeah. Definitely harder than people would expect. I'd venture to say it's closer to 30 or 40% if that. Okay, wow yeah.
Speaker 2:Definitely harder than people would expect. Yeah, it's not shooting fish in the barrel. Like I say, though, the limiting factor is getting access to the land that the elk are feeding on. There could be 300, 400 elk hitting somebody's bales, and it's not like that as much today because they are trying to reduce the numbers, because they are doing so much damage, um, basically, to the hay and whatnot in the winter. Yeah, um, you know, I've seen groups recently of you know 90 in the winter that's it I'm sure there's bigger ones, but yeah, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:I mean they're decent sized animal too. Um, it's all interesting just learning about different areas. You know the hunting and the animals and kind of what the situation is there. Uh, yeah, terence, I mean I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast. Hope to have you on again. Uh, really interesting talking about. Uh, you know, especially, we've got moose season around the corner for most people in the country. Um, yep, so said, if people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way?
Speaker 2:Well, my website is bossoutfittingcom. It hasn't changed in a lot of years. It's been there. If you get on my website you can find my phone number. I have a reasonably good Facebook presence. I'm not super good at the social media, but I try to put some stuff out there that I think is pretty cool. But the best thing to do is get on that website and check it out, and, man, I'd much rather talk about hunting than work. So anytime we can do that, I'm happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, yeah, I mean, like I said, your website boss outfitting. Uh, I found it. It was easy to navigate and you have great pictures and what you offer and everything, and it was well put together, like I said, very easy to use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1:I got a pretty good designer.
Speaker 2:She's been doing websites since I was 19 years old. I think she did that website.
Speaker 1:And evolved it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's been around forever, that's pretty neat Good deal.
Speaker 1:Well, like I said, I'm sure I'll be talking to you again soon and I can't wait to see some pictures and wish you all the success this upcoming season.
Speaker 2:Right on. We'll keep in touch, ken. Thanks for having me All right thanks.