Hunts On Outfitting Podcast

Ep.102 Moose At First Light

• Kenneth Marr • Season 2 • Episode 102

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Four bulls grunting in the dark, a calm breath at legal light, and a 40-yard shot off a knee—that’s how Jen’s moose story begins. What followed was a masterclass in adapting on the fly: a last-minute elk tag surprise, shifting herd behavior after bales moved, and the grind of antlerless-only strategy on public land where every headlight means competition.

We walk through how planning and patience paid off on the moose—trail cameras around beaver-dam sloughs, an island of brush for cover, and a steady .30-06 anchored perfectly behind the shoulder. Then the season pivots. With a one-week, over-the-counter antlerless elk window drawing crowds, and crop insurance changes pulling feed sources, elk went nocturnal fast. We break down the lost-calf call for drawing cows, when bugles help for locating, and how small mistakes—like a loud door or a rushed top-load—erase chances in seconds.

The conversation digs into ethics and policy too. We unpack the viral video of hunters pushing elk from closed to open ground and why legality isn’t the same as fair chase. We weigh how concentrated pressure can hammer local deer during a fragile recovery after hard winters, and how predator realities—coyotes up, wolf bounties across the border—complicate management choices for ranchers and wildlife alike. Through it all, the heartbeat stays close to home: Jen’s aiming for a bow-killed whitetail, Dave’s focused on his daughter’s first deer, and the family is learning together where preparation ends and luck begins.

If you’re here for practical hunting strategy, ethical debate, and a freezer-filling moose tale told straight, you’re in the right place. Subscribe, share the show with a hunting partner, and drop a review to tell us where you stand on one-week antlerless seasons and herd-pushing tactics.

Check us out on Facebook Hunts On Outfitting, or myself Ken Marr. Reach out and Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!

SPEAKER_00:

We get to talk to both of them on how just wrap up. We do see a little on not knowing exactly the type of guns to the most silent setting of doors. As you can tell from the podcast profile pictures, when the moment of truth comes and it really can't get it done on one of the largest big animals in North America. I did have a little bit of a scale quality issue for some reason. But this story about that, but you could still build it here at the end. It's been really cold lately. Actually, across a lot of North America right now, it's been super cold temperatures. You've got to be looking after yourself. And especially your best friend or fast. With no choke dog food, the highest energy dog food. If you get their 3232 plants, that's delivering about 720 calories per cash. If you work your dogs and no choke will be there to help keep them going.com or you can find us on Facebook, Huntsonoutfitting. Or find myself on there. Some of you guys have been. It's been great talking with you from all over. So you guys you guys had the tags and then um You started you started off with Moose, right? Moose season was first before elk season.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um supposed to be elk season, but we messed that part up. So I was talking to you about that.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

In the last podcast podcast or whatever, but uh I say we messed that up like uh kind of a big mess up. So the status system, Jen had seven year status from for elk whatever. So so like there's two different draw systems for elk, there's ant lewis and there's either sex. And putting in year to year, we always do either sex. Um this year, especially kind of after your odds for Ant Lewis because we they released more tags, we had 60 tags in our zone. So putting in for the tag, um kind of mentioned putting in either sex and somehow we put in for ant lewis and didn't find that out till two weeks before the season. Um Yeah, I was buying my tag or my license, and that's when we realized that was a bit of a it's kinda it's yeah. Go through the app and check your what your draw results are. It just comes up elk drawn or whatever. So so we just kind of assumed at that time that it was an either sex tag.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

She was also drawn for moose, so pretty excited. She had both, so all the planning through the summer went into a bowl elk tag, either sex. And then two weeks before that season started, went and bought her tags. And when she was buying her tag, realized it was an Aunt Lewis tag, so that changed things up. So yeah, moose season was first, Aunt Lewis came after that. Usually the the uh either sex elk would uh would come before the moose, but okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so uh Jen, let's uh let's meet you. Your ears must have been burning on the last podcast I did with Dave. You were talked about quite a bit. Uh also Dave was talking about a strategy, but you were the uh the woman of the hour, the woman that made that I was not gonna say all that's possible. Well, Dave, you helped make it possible, but you were the lucky lottery winner to get not only their moose tag, but their elk tag in the same year. Um what was that like, Jim? Were you surprised getting it? You weren't expecting it.

SPEAKER_03:

I was. Yeah, yeah. I um pretty well every year. Dave is the one to remind me to put in for the draws. So I actually did it this year and um then I still remember the night he was asking me to check because everyone he knew, no one got drawn, so I uh checked and lucky enough I had both of them, so made Dave pretty mad, a little jealous. Yeah. But uh yeah, I know I was pretty excited. I knew it was pretty big deal. You don't get it very often, I guess. So No. And uh and then uh at the time thinking I was gonna get a bull for m both of them was quite exciting, especially where Dave never hunted elk. I thought I was gonna be able to get the big monster bull elk and show it, show off for Dave, but uh didn't work out that way, but that's all right.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh well, uh Dave was saying too. I remember him talking to me when he found out that you got it and he said, like, I I don't know if you realize it's the work because he said you're like, Well, yeah, I I should have moved. Oh, I I should milk too. Yeah, sure, why not? Dave's like, we're gonna need a lot, we're gonna need another freezer.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Most of the work was on him though, not me. I just had to pull the trigger.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and you did. And but you you had a little hunting experience before this, right? You did uh you did some deer hunting, you got a really nice buck out there in Saskatchewan before.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, I didn't really hunt growing up. My family wasn't much of hunters, but knowing Dave from when I was quite young, I guess I went um bird hunting with him through high school, and I was actually pregnant with my daughter the first time I shot a bird and uh then um shopped him a few times back east uh while he hunted white tail and then out here I guess I I went out a few times, got two white tail out here, and but uh yeah, not an avid hunter, I wouldn't say, but I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it it is it is time consuming and for people, both people in the same health to be as obsessed with it as say Dave would be with kids. I know it's it's only one can be that obsessed. Um but are you more hooked now that you've I mean, especially taken down, you know, um nice moose that you did.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I would say I'm gonna say that I'm thinking the moose is probably topped it. I feel like it's not gonna be as exciting going back to Whitetail, but unless so unless I see uh a big one on camera, I guess. But no, I definitely enjoyed it and definitely want to do it again. Hoping Dave will get a elf take here next few years. We'll try it out again.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yeah, absolutely. So um I guess we'll start off with the moose. So when Dave was on before, you know, we talked about what his plan was and kind of the area that you were hunting. So Dave, walk me through uh in Jen the first morning of you guys like all right, let's saddle up, let's get out. We are off school, the kids are, you know, you guys are off working me, the kids are off to school. How's it start?

SPEAKER_02:

So the season started this year, it was on a Monday. Uh both of us work. Jen works Monday to Friday, I work Monday to Thursday. And so we kind of planned uh Thursday night. We had a friends close to town that uh they have a farm, and he was getting hammered with people, so it was close to the other mine, like where our mine site, I guess, where guys were calling him and saying they'd been seeing a big bull moose by his place. And so he told me about this bull moose, and so I'm like, okay, whatever. And he's like, You guys get first shot if you want, because he knew we had a tag, and they were close to town. Where we ended up hunting later on was probably a half-hour drive from town, like out where we used to live. And so we so I was like, okay, it's like, well, we'll probably try there early, just because we could try there in the evenings after work where we still had some daylight. And uh, I knew by the weekend we'd go back where I was planning to hunt. So uh Thursday night or Wednesday night, I guess, was the first night we hunted. So Wednesday after on the of the first Wednesday of the season, I guess, is the way you go. And we went out there and it's like kind of local, close to highways and stuff, but it's a big slew behind his farmyard. So it's all cattails, um, kind of a couple chunks of bush around it. So we knew basically if there's something there, we could call him out. We'd call them out quick. We tried that first night, we were out there probably three, four hours. We tried calling and everything, and uh no luck couldn't pull anything. I knew the rut hit. If there was just kind of a lone bull, he probably would have took off looking for cows. So we're kind of a at that point, I've already seen bulls chasing cows, so I kind of knew we were into the rut. So wasn't very optimistic at that point. Um, kind of hoping he was still around. So we tried that first night um Wednesday, and then so Thursday night after work, I said, well, let's just go get set up because Jen was taking Friday off work, and then I think we had the Monday, Tuesday. We're gonna try five days in a row and didn't need any of those days, but like so the Thursday night, we I said, We'll go back and we'll set up at our spot and we'll call a bit that night. So by the time we got back there, we had probably an hour of daylight to to hunt. So we got back there, we get set up, so we're setting up it's it's kind of a corner of a field going into bush, so like be good thick woods, these like aspens, and uh it's a lot of oak back there, but then it's on the edge of this big slough, big beaver dam slough, so there's a big pond there. And uh I've I've found it there before, there's a lot of moose in around that area. So we went out and set up in these bushes. We got kind of an island of bushes that we cleared out and we set up two uh like swivel chairs, and I bought a uh death grip tripod, so had her all set up on that, so she basically just had to grab the gun and shoot. Uh it was all Jen was prepared to do that. She was prepared to do that, yeah. So and nothing goes according to plan, right?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, so we went back there to Thursday night, just kind of hoping we'd do some calling, maybe bring something in for Friday morning, because we were planning on hunting Friday morning. So the plan was to go set up and sit, call for a bit, and see if we could pull something in there for the morning. Um, so we got back there, we got everything set up pretty quick, and we called, and within about 20 minutes or so, there was a big crash, bang beside us. I swear this moose fell down the hill beside us, and then it was uh the earling bull that didn't know what was going on, and he kind of jumped out in front of us, jumped the fence, and came out right out in front of us. And and he was yeah, he was really young. So Jen's like, oh I don't think I'll shoot him yet. And we're too small. Yeah, way too small.

SPEAKER_00:

You had expectations, did you, Jen? Like you weren't like, oh, I'm gonna shoot the first moose I see with antlers, or you you really you were after something specific.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. Well, see, Dave's already got a couple moves, so I had competition. I had to get something a little bigger at least.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So I was hoping for a big guy.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's good. So yeah, day two. She had a lot of expectations, yeah. Um so yeah, this guy kind of wandered around, then he he peeled right straight away from us, kind of went over this hill, and Jen's like, oh, he's gone. I'm like, I said he'll be back as soon as we call again. So I hit the call again. Sure enough, he turns and like pins her back up over the hill, like right towards us. And then we're probably half hour, 20 minutes to legal light at this point. So within 10 minutes of that, this guy's kind of watering front of us, and then all of a sudden there's a grunting straight behind him. Another bull's grunting behind him, so he turns and kind of like stares up in the bush. And then it's it's kind of nonstop at this point. He's grunting. This other young bull takes off up in the bush after him to see what's going on up there. And then before like probably within five minutes of that, we had two other bulls grunting in the distance straight away from us, and then like off to our right. And we're 10 minutes today to legal light, so just look at Jen's like, okay, let's get out of here right now, and then hopefully, like if things work out, they'll be here in the morning, right? So we pulled out, suck out of there nice and quiet. Everything seemed good, so we're pretty optimistic for morning. Um, went home geared up and said, We'll be there nice and early in the morning. So next day we go back in and sit down. We're 20 minutes illegal light, I think what time we were sitting down. So it was quite dark. And I didn't want to hit the call too early because of the activity the night before. So we had like four bulls that we knew of that were were in there the night before, so I knew if anything was real close that if we hit the call too early that we might miss it, they'd come cruising through and we wouldn't really get a chance at them. So we waited to like ten minutes of daylight probably and I hit the call and within seconds this bull pops out and he's grunting like he pops out of the bush, probably 150 yards away from us. And it's still illegal lights, not not enough that we can tell what he is. So I'm like, okay, don't know what he is, but uh as much as Jen's expectations were as high as she wanted, I knew I knew if we had something decent, she was gonna shoot it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But so I said a vocal moose is usually a bigger, bigger bull from what I like I've experienced anyway. Like the young ones can come in crashing and banging down a hill and they won't make a noise, where the bigger ones will be a bit more vocal. So this one's grunting and kind of coming our way, and he stops at like, I don't know, a hundred yards, and he's sitting there, and so like I'm glassing with other binoculars. Okay, it's like he's got paddles, looks like a decent bull. So I give Jen the binoculars. She looks at him, and what'd you say pretty quick?

SPEAKER_03:

I was like, Yeah, I'll shoot him.

SPEAKER_02:

Shoot her. So she decided pretty quick that she's like, Yeah, I'll shoot him. So we're still eight minutes through the lead of light, and he's sitting there, kind of staring at us. So he sat there for quite a while, and then he kind of made his way towards us, but as he came towards us, he went north of us, which would be to our left-hand side, I guess, of where we were sitting. And uh Jen's guns in a vice, basically, this death grip tripod, which oh, shout out the death grip. I love the tripod. But simple enough, I can loosen it off. So I loosen this tripod off. She picks the gun off.

SPEAKER_03:

I think at this point I was asking you, is it time yet? Can I see?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, she's asking, she's asking are we daylight? I'm like, we're three minutes into daylight, so we were good into legal light.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So then I loosen the gun out, she takes the gun, and we're in swivel chairs, so I'm like, pick your feet up because we're we have like a lot of bush around us and leaves and stuff. And so she picks her feet up and I swivel her chair around. And she's just kind of pointing out the back of where we're sitting, like where we walk into these bushes and by the time she shoots.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I remember driving in that morning. Uh, sorry for the side note, but I remember thinking and saying to Dave, Well, I hope the moose will stop for me if we see one, because I don't want to shoot it when it's walking. I've never shot anything moving. And Dave's like, Well, you so you might have to. And so sure enough, he's swiveling my chair around. I have to hold the gun, not have it in the tripod. I'm bracing it on my knee and he's walking and he's not stopping. So I'm trying so like trying so hard to just stay steady and follow this moves to make a nice clear shot. And uh yeah, so he was, what was he, 20, 30 yards? Oh, 40 yards away. He was pretty close, close enough that I knew it'd be really embarrassing if I missed him. So uh yeah, squeezed the trigger and and uh he took a few steps, I guess, and then just dropped.

SPEAKER_02:

Um squeezed, she went, she squeezed the trigger, so like still legal light, but darker, but I see the muzzle, I see a lead flying, so I think kind of instantly she hit a bush and panic sets in, and I'm telling her to reload, reload, and oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well I I remember the video you sent the picture of Jen with the Moose and then the video, and then you just you you watching the video and then you and then you hear reload, reload, reload, and then the camera goes out really what happened.

SPEAKER_03:

And then what you what you missed on on the camera was I'm like, I don't know how because I was panicking. Um but I didn't have to reload, he dropped.

SPEAKER_00:

So what what gun uh were you shooting again, Jen?

SPEAKER_03:

Um Dave.

SPEAKER_00:

Dave, we talked about it last time, but I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so Winchester Model 70, it's a 30 odd six. She was shooting 180 grain Nas layer trophy ammunition is what's called. So they were a heavy bullet. It was good, it was perfect for what she needed. So when she shot that moose, she hit it right behind the front troller, right where you want to hit it. And when we skinned the moose out, it was literally in the hide on the opposite side. So four eight through them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so Jen, you were yeah, you are like uh I don't know what kind of gun it is, but I know it's kind that worked.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. She did the trick. Yeah, three shots with that and dropped everything within 20 yards. So she's doing pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh yeah, that's pretty exciting. The adrenaline is going after that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. You didn't get it to do any like weird uh ritual thing. Did you ever see that thing on Facebook? It's like this guy, he's like, We convinced he convinced his wife that he have to drink a beer that's being poured over the booth.

SPEAKER_03:

I would drink the beer but not over it.

unknown:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Someone's like she's gonna kill him when she finds that he made that up.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

No, nothing too wild. No.

SPEAKER_02:

They I think you had left to go went down over the hill to get the truck or something and I went and picked up the truck and Jen yeah once we walked up on it she realized how big moose are pretty incredible. That was the thing I was talking about. Like it's I don't know I hunted moose in New Brunswick but like it's hard to get an idea of how big they are here when they're walking through a field compared to the middle of the woods in New Brunswick. But like they're they're a big animal. They're so big here and like so yeah so yeah once you when you walk up on them you get a a way better idea of how big they are and so I went up and grabbed the truck and Jen sat with the moose and like yeah I pulled right up to the moose. Like that's I knew everybody in New Brunswick how easy it was to load this moose up.

SPEAKER_03:

But um I sat there with my hands on the the hide trying to stay warm.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah no but I mean you must have been worn from adrenaline I mean b what a thrill to shoot a moose of that size that close. I mean and it it seemed to happen kind of quick too really Yeah it did.

SPEAKER_03:

I uh I didn't start getting cold till after I guess because we barely had a chance to sit down and wait.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah I know it was quick and well for the whole season yeah she was a little over four hours getting here. So my my brother Mike out there in New Brunswick he waited 20 years for his tag and like this year he finally got it and never got his moose and Jen sat for four hours over here and shot a moose.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's it's kind of a salt in the wound for that guy but yeah well that that's hunting that's the thing especially you know big game hunting I mean that's just yeah that's the way it is that's how it works. It can come down to just shit luck. Yeah for but you know yeah I'll take shit luck over anything else.

SPEAKER_02:

Well I had eight cameras so like probably eight cameras for moose and elk so I was looking for bull elk and moose and I had lots of bull elk and this is the same spot like within the same area there I probably have four cameras within a kilometer um of e of each other and majority of my pictures were elk I had the odd moose on it like not a lot of moose but I knew moose were in there is just to try and like there's a lot of willows they kind of move around they're in the they're in the uh beaver dam area like yeah it's it's hard to just get them on camera that's all like and I and I knew like the the farmer there has seen moose in there like we've hunted a couple times like there's lots of moose in there but elk was the main thing I was after too at the at the start of it. So that all kind of changed in time or whatever but we had yeah to have four bull moose grunt no there's four four bull moose in there the night before we were we were pretty sure there was gonna be something around the morning but I was wasn't sure it was going to be something decent but yeah she got a nice we figure it was three and a half year old moose. Um by the time we took it the butcher hide off on the hooks was five hundred and thirty some pounds I think. No five seventy five seventy. It was a really good sized bowl.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah like Yeah we got lots of meat freezers are full.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah that's good no that's nice how was it did you help Jen uh you know quarter him and get him out of there well um well I helped hold his uh back legs up while he was gutting it.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh yeah and so I got full of the blood. I didn't do much of the gutting myself but I I tried to help. And then when it was we had it hung up um at our friend's dad's shop I guess there and skinning it and everything I helped with that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I've done the skinning before on deer but a little different on a bigger animal but yeah I tried to do my part.

SPEAKER_00:

That's good. Well at least you tried. Um no that's yeah if you don't know what you're doing I've done that too like uh how about I just uh I hold a dantler's up here or something you know but yeah I could be over here taking selfies.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah yeah I I don't help because I don't have patience so it's more I'm I dive in and if she's too slow I just take over but we we had uh the farmer we hunted off of he's he's really good he has a overhead crane right in his shop and he let us use that and it was really slick yeah getting it all done but he got a little gift basket out of it at the end so yeah I'm sure he's happy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah he's he's pretty pumped actually uh he's got cattle and like he eats beef nonstop so it's a little different taste when you get some moose and he actually loves it yeah yeah that's great and then uh so you guys got that taken care of and then you're like alright you look Jen dead in the eyes you're like it's elk time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah yeah pretty much yeah the elk season changed for us so like it went to Antalus and Antlis there's a lot more antlotus tags uh there's 60 ant lotus tags compared to the 20 uh either sex um and the odds are definitely changed on that so like Jen the the crappy part for her in this whole situation is like it's one single tag technically status wise so like uh your antlers and your either sex going the same status so she lost five year status on this one tag which basically gave her a hundred percent chance of getting the tag so that was kind of the issue with it the other thing this year that's kind of salt in the wound is uh the government decided to open up Antlis elk for a week of hunting in our all of our southern zones so yeah she blew five year status on a tag that she could have just bought for thirty dollars right yeah so so yeah there's issues there in an argument there we can go on for days for that but politically and stuff yeah yeah yeah exactly but uh anyway so but her analyst tag season is different than the one week they had that was open season so we were still gonna get out when we could so uh hockey starts up though so we had a boy that's 10 and in hockey and gymnastics for the daughter and so like to try and get nights that were both available to go out was limited but when we got out we got out um on the weekends or a couple weekends we got out a couple days straight um on top of that open elk season um the the insurance company out here basically decided they're gonna cut uh crop insurance on farmers so our whole plan from the get-go was to sit on the farmer we hunt on basically we're shot our moose with all alpha alpha bales and as soon as the snow hits usually the the elk are all over his bales and he had major issues with it for years and years uh he's lost up to a hundred bales a year there's there's that many elk out there so crazy yeah it's a lot of money yeah it's a lot of money and their solution was to basically cut crop insurance and open up a one week season season to everybody um which the elk aren't dumb when they get shot at they're not coming out in daylight so it wasn't a solution I think that worked but they they there's using the hunters is the right way I I guess like I I look at the positive that way like using the hunters was the right way of doing it. Well better than some places just they're like uh we'll just dump a whole bunch of wolves hope for the best yeah so yeah better than that dumping the wolves isn't the thing still no um and then like and just where he's at like there's there's a lot of elk in that area so like s south from him like like in a small area you'd probably get away with having the bales out but like where he's at there's definitely a good herd of elk so our plan originally was to sit on these bales and and shoot a cow off those uh but where they cut his crop insurance and he wasn't going to get anything out of his bales and the risk of leaving the bales there to graze them uh he ended up pulling the bales off that land and put them on his home quarter and so the the first snow hit and I'm like well the elk might still be there so we went in and we walked like he's got three quarters there in total I think and we walked all of it and there wasn't an elk track to be seen so elk obviously moved with the with their feed they're gonna eat during the winter so uh we we hunt in there a couple times we were in there and checked it out a couple times and like no luck um so we moved over there's some wildlife lands I knew there was elk that were they were by and so we went over there we caught like we'd seen a trail coming across like in the snow pretty fresh we're like okay they're crossing here so they're feeding on the other side of the road so like there's kind of a small valley there so they'll hunker down the valley. So like good crossing so I said we'll we'll try and sit in this spot in the morning so we went back there a couple mornings but every morning we went back there there was already somebody parked there and it's like when they've seen our headlights they would get out and be walking in the field ahead of us and that's a competition like there's 60 tags in the zone and there's only so many herds that these ammo dogs are going to be in right like they're not gonna be spread out like moose or a deer or anything like that. They're they're herded up pretty good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah it's like it's like moose hunting here in New Brunswick I guess not the herds but it's con it'll on its zones it's condensed.

SPEAKER_02:

Like it's just gonna be this kind of condensed area yeah yeah yeah the moose are definitely spread out here they'll they'll spread out here moose but like the elk are going to be pretty condensed into certain areas so like there's definitely like good herds here in certain sections but you're gonna be battling with other guys especially for 60 tags in our in our zone like you're gonna be battling with them so so anyway we found this herd we tried to get on them so we tried there a couple times we get there in the morning this guy would see us and he he'd be wandering in before we got there and he beat us to it whatever it's public land it's how it works right and uh so the one morning we come up and he's parked there and he gets out of his truck and he's walking in and I'm like ah whatever so we're gonna go back and check this other piece and maybe by chance we'd have El Code there. So we pull around the corner there's another another quarter of uh the quarter here is 180 acres I guess we can put it that way. So like a quarter of wildlife land so public land that's 180 acres is uh on the far side of him I guess like so to the he's to the east we're to the west so when we come around the corner there's 30 elk standing in this field and uh kind of shocked us and I've been slowing down I'm like okay so I'm like pull up to the tree line I'm like okay we we got time we can get out to this the edge of this field and we'll catch them before they take off go into the the bush or whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

And uh Jen's like okay so she gets out and I get out and Jen slams her door I didn't slam it it shut loudly shot loudly behind her sorry yeah yeah they'll do that too if you don't watch them she looks at me and says sorry don't you tell that to the kids they're gonna be eating elk this year.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah and then she grabs the gun and she's my gun's a top load through the clip there's no clip it's just a top load okay and she's trying to load it and it comes over to me freaking out and she's like I can't load it like I'm trying to help her I'm helping her load it so she was putting one in top load and she was cycling it in and pulling it back out and it was flying back out so she'd put it back in she'd cycle it back in and pull it back out.

SPEAKER_03:

You suppose to tell people that's a good thing nothing was charging you.

SPEAKER_02:

It's part of the story yeah yeah yeah it's part of the story it's it happens I don't think grown men that do that there are grown men to do that yeah yeah and this is all panic like this is kind of like we're trying to be quick and apparently not quite open by the time we got in the field we never even seen the ass of an elf going to buy it they were long gone.

SPEAKER_00:

Well they they heard the door clean they're like that could have been anything and then they hear the gun getting fidgeted like I think that's hunter.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah exactly outsmarted me so they they knew anyway so they were gone pretty quick. Basically I think when we slammed the door we should have just packed up and left but we tried loading the gun and everything it didn't work out. That was honestly the closest we came to see shooting an antlers elk. So like and then we had other opportunities we probably could have taken advantage of but we had a moose in the freezer and I think people were farmers and like oh they want all the elk shot would have been mad at us but like it was limited time for us in that time zone. Like if it came if it was either sex elk we would have had a lot more time to put in um so we were a little more limited getting into uh September October with the boy playing hockey and the daughter in gymnastics so when we could both get together and get out hunting so it's we we got out enough that I thought before the season we would had enough time but I was way too optimistic and I'm just too loud. Yeah and the door slamming didn't work yeah yeah uh but yeah you underestimated it a little bit but did you get a chance to practice your elk bugling much at home I elk bugled all summer long yeah I was ready to elk bugle and like so I got looking after I'm like okay I just wasted all this summer learning to elk bugle and get out there. So like I didn't do any in during the season or anything to mess around with them but yeah um I did look and I was like okay it's like we're we're Animalist elk hunting so can we call out a cow elk and and like a lot of the stuff I was reading was saying like yeah you can't like a a lost a lost calf call will call out a cow elk. So like I did try some of that when we we were walking these this land or whatever and and uh but I mean like they they all gotta be there to hear it and stuff. So like I think they just moved on to the next food source is what I figured at the end of the day. But um but yeah like they say you can call in a cow elk using the the lost calf and that was a something I seen kind of when I was like researching calling elk and stuff like that was like the lost calf is a it's a call that works during the rut too because it pulls in all the cows and the bulls will follow right so it's kind of a good call to learn. The bugle is a good one for locating but like when you get when you get into just bringing air the whole herd in that lost calf seems to be one of the main ones but that's it just their uh their parental instincts kind of kick in does it yeah I think that's that that from my understanding I've never shot an elk I've never really we we hunted an antless elk this year so I'm no pro at it but uh it looks like it's a pretty common call to use is like cow calf call will will seem to pull that herd in like you're looking to pull the cows and it's gonna pull the bulls in right so like same thing during antlow season is like a lost calf will the the cows the cows seem to be interested in it and you'll pull them in but never get the opportunity or on the herd enough to to get a shot at that but they get so condensed here after the snow flies on uh on feed sources and like there was a location like I I knew of that uh they keep standing corn they graze corn for cows.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And yeah and there's uh there's a lot of elk that hit it at night and uh there's a farmer across the road like he basically is on the the line of the bush and there's a there's a really large piece of bush behind him uh woods behind them that uh the will the elk will hold in and then they cross over into this corn and everybody was hammering him this year by the sounds of things and then like from what I've heard he he gets permission he's great at giving permission but he'd give two days to you so he'd give you a split it up. Yeah he'd say okay you get you get two days if you get something great if not you're done and then on to the next person which I thought was pretty fair like I thought it was a really good idea um and we didn't dig into it too much because like to try and light up two days for us this year that late in the season was was tough. So we didn't we didn't go after it just because of the fact so it's like okay we'll just stick to our other spots and uh I mean if we didn't have a moose in our freezer probably would have dug into it a little harder and and went after that but like I think a lot of people that went in there would have had luck.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So like you basically once you get the snow yeah you could follow the cows into the bush and it it's just when you shoot one in there you're gonna have a lot more work involved in hauling it out right so yeah yeah no exactly um and then too I'm I saw a video I think you and I were talking about this it wasn't too far from you but these guys they I don't know how much how often you deal with this they were chasing elk from an area that they couldn't shoot them into an area that they could. I think that was quite a big video on uh Facebook.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah that became pretty popular here and that that has to go with this open elk season.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And like I don't know like so our zone like it's it's hard to explain zone to zone. So they open up all the southern zones to this open elk season. Well there's some of these zones don't have any elk at all and some of them have a little bit of elk and some of them have a lot of elk right so so everybody could buy a tag And then all I had to do was indicate which zone they would be hunting in. So you get down around the park. So like we got uh park south of us that that holds a lot of elk. I mean our zone itself owns holds a lot of elk. And I noticed it in deer season. So like where I hunt for deer, um it's where we were hunting for elk. And like I've hunted there for years for deer. And I've I hunted it this year, and like so for the years past, like you would see nobody back there. Like you'd see the odd vehicle, like there's there's not as many deer where there's if there is elk and moose. Like it's pretty common here, like your deer be will be in pockets, your kind of elk will be in pockets, they'll be mixed in. Um and I had a lot of deer more south of here, which so that's where I would hunt deer. But I hunt deer out here for the elk are like it's it's just not hunted as hard. So during deer season, it's a little calmer. So this year, rifle season hits, and uh it was bonkers because of that one week of elk season. So basically everybody would come here, okay. I'll I'll just hunt 35 for elk. So they'd come here for their one week of elk season, and they also hold the deer tag, and they're Saskatchewan residents, so it doesn't matter. So they're shooting either a deer or an elk. And I heard more gunshots back there in one day than I heard in the past eight years of hunting back there.

SPEAKER_00:

Like oh, yeah, yeah, that makes it a lot tougher. Just like a shooting.

SPEAKER_02:

So those those zones that hold the elk, so that's what you've seen down there, and that's exactly what was going on. It's like that herd of elk, it's in farmland, which doesn't hold a lot of bush down there where they were at. So they can kind of like manipulate what they want them to do. So like they were basically pushing that whole herd to where they could legally shoot it instead of where they legally couldn't shoot it. Like it was I don't know. It's a hard way of hunting, like easy way, uh we easy way of hunting if you want to do it that way. But it's like, is it really ethical at the end of the day? And like, do you feel good at shooting that animal at the end of the day? Like like you're chasing it for miles to get it to the point where you can legally shoot it.

SPEAKER_00:

You shoot it, like I know, like if yeah, like you said, I mean, if if you can live with it, whatever, I guess, but if you want to Yeah, there's there's ethics definitely come into play on that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's it's a conscience thing, I guess. Like it's conscience and ethics, and like at the end of the day, I I like feeling good about what I shoot and being able to brag about it, not necessarily brag about it, but like show it off, I guess, a little bit. Be proud of it. Yeah, be proud of it, like and then like like that whole video, like those guys like ran up on the guy video, and it's like we're trying to get him over, like they were pumped about what they were doing, and like it just didn't seem right at all.

SPEAKER_00:

It made us hunters as a whole look bad. Things like that, it it just it it's not a good look for anybody.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's a hundred percent what it is, and that's that's what that one week season was, and like like I said, you look at it and say, okay, we used Hunters for the issue, which is what I think we need to do. Because Manitoba not too long ago, we had talked about the CWD go getting across in the Manitoba border, yeah, and they got they had the government flying around and trappers shooting deer, and they shot over 600 deer. Like that became an uproar pretty quick, and like using the hunters the way to do, and they still do it over in Manitoba, like right across the border. They still open up these tags for Muleys because Muleys is what they're finding CWE and more than so than the white tail. Okay, and they're monitoring it really good. Um, it's just this was this just seemed like a last minute uh uh issue. Like, okay, we're gonna resolve it by we'll open it up for one week and we'll shoot all the cow elk we can. It's it's like they got 10 years behind. Yeah to be able to open it up to 100%. Like so Jen's tag was one of 60 in our zone for Aunt Lewis elk, and she we didn't we weren't successful. We did we did try. We didn't try as hard as we would have if she didn't shoot a moose. I'm gonna I'll be honest, like we would have put more time in.

SPEAKER_00:

But would have shut doors a little quieter, maybe, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, shut doors a little quieter in the truck.

SPEAKER_03:

Like I learned my lesson, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But like it's at some point, I got too far behind. So like 60 tags this year, great. Maybe we should have been 60 tags last year. Maybe we should be 80 tags last year. Like they should have up those tags for the zone earlier than to get to the point to open it up during deer season where everybody so like to me, our deer population in this zone took a shit kick in this year, which is already down a lot from the past two winters, because everybody came here with an elk and a deer tag and could shoot whatever they want, right? So zones like us that hold elk definitely took a beating for their deer population on top of their elk, which I don't think it really made a huge difference because those elk aren't stupid. Like when pressure hits them, they go nocturnal and they're not moving during daylight very well. Like, I don't think a whole lot of elk were shot during this open season.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'd say like I said, at least at least they didn't do the wolf thing. Because I mean I I've got people that I talk to in the states and all that, and I think it it's man, it's bad. Like they're like, oh, too many elk will just really force it to the wolves, and it'll sort itself out, and then the wolves are going after everything. And it's wiping out populations and then they're you know they're going after farmers, cattle, and stuff. And like it's it's it's a mess, and it's it's really bad, and it's kind of hard to put that genie back in the bottle after it's out. So at least the government is seems to be looking at it somewhat and trying to use the hunters and everything, but uh sounds like there's still a bit of a learning curve for them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like the the wolves here are are definitely migrating south. Like we have wolves here. Um there is a bounty. I'm trying to think, I think it's Manitoba side, but no mid north from us. It's like a hundred bucks a wolf.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And like it's not like we have a crazy population of wolves, but it's more the cattle population, right? Like the cattle farmers do not want wolves here, um, which is a good thing for deer and elk and moose and everything, but like it's a there's there's no happy medium there. Like, if you have more elk and moose and deer, your bales and your feeds gonna get hammered a little bit more as farmers here. Um, but the wolves are gonna demolish your your cattle herd. So it's there's a bounty on them in Manitoba, it's like a hundred bucks a wolf. So you shoot a wolf, you get a hundred bucks. Um, coyotes have kind of taken off right now. So we got a bounty on the RRM for 20 bucks a coyote right now because there's nobody trapping them because the fur prices are shit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um and then like you go you carry on with that, like the the hunting itself is taking out so much, but like our winters have have really hurt the deer. So trying to hurt help the deer, not help the elk, like it's it's there's a balance there that's really tough to to battle. So I could see like the issue for the government or the department environment to try to to balance it, I guess. Like it's it open up this one week season, I think. Maybe they thought they were doing the right thing. Yeah, they probably did. But like open up during deer season probably wasn't the right thing for certain zones.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um so so it just it took a lot of criticism from the hunters at the end of the day. Um, and videos like that, like the guys chasing the whole herd of elk down to where they can shoot them. Those don't help us at all, right?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, that uh yeah, I remember seeing that. Like, what are they doing? Like there's other ways to go about it.

SPEAKER_02:

No, that was that was cowboy stuff for sure. Like, it's I don't know. I it's not where I that's the way I hunt anyway, so it's like I see it totally different anyway, but um I can see people wanting to shoot an elk, and that's where I seen like I had people around me uh that oh, do you do you know where there's any elk and stuff like that? Like they're asking me, and they have friends coming over to our zone to try and shoot a cow elk, and it's like man, I just hunted for three weeks for cow elk, and we didn't get anything. So, like I can try and tell you where they're at, but like the the cow elks are like they're very like if there's pressure on them, they're not coming out. They're they're the ghost, they'll stick to the bush, they're not they're not pushing out in the in the open very often. Especially like the cow elk season, that that one week season, that's not during the rot, so there's nothing really motivating them to move around. They don't need to be on the move.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they'll just eat at night, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and they can so like where we lived, and like I worked nights for years, and like I would see them on the way home coming across the road back to the bush at four in the morning, which is like three hours before daylight, three, four hours before daylight. So like they they're not dumb, but yeah, they move at night, they go feed at night, and they'll hunker down in the middle of the bush in the middle of nowhere. Like during that those months when there there is snow, you can you can definitely try and jump on them, but it's gonna t cause you a lot more work when you get in there, but yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, um yeah, it's uh yeah, I don't know what uh what the solution is, but I mean uh Jen, uh where are you at on this hunting thing you uh gearing up for next year, already making plans for it, or what are you thinking?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'd like to get out gear hunting next year.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

Um I like Dave was saying, it is a little trickier with both of us wanting to uh get out there when we've we've got the kids. But uh um yeah. I I'm sure I will get out. Uh hoping Dave will put up some cameras for me to do the grant work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Is there more of a healthy competition now that you have a moose? You're kind of more in the game. You ha you you do have a nice deer, you look into like, uh maybe if he shoots a deer next year to, you know, up him with antler size.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, absolutely. That's good to hear. Yeah. Nice.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I have um I have a bow that um Dave got for me a few years ago and I've practiced with it a bit. Um, I'd really like to get um more practice with it so that I don't um hit my arm with it when I release it. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Once that hurts, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, I got bruised pretty bad. So I I definitely need to work on that so I am a little more confident because I think it'd be pretty pretty re rewarding to uh be able to take down a white tail with my bow. So maybe that'll be my goal for next year.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, that's that's a really good one. Yeah, just I find that's the way it is too with hunting. You you try to keep progressing and setting yourself new goals and things like that. And that's a that's a great way. I mean, you got nice moods this year and you've gotten nice bucks and just talk about getting one with your bow now. I mean, yeah, that's that's the progression of of hunters to like, well, if I did it this way, maybe I can do it that way and try new things.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

What about you, Dave? You got any uh got any new goals? Get an elk someday?

SPEAKER_02:

I got goals, I lost the goals.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh my goal is to get my daughter a deer now. Like she started this year and uh stick around her safety. Um we geared her up with a crossbow because she can't pull a ball back. So crossbow goes in our muzzle loader season here, little early to start. Um so we got out lots and she watched a lot of bucks, and like I created a monster there because she wants the big one already. So like first year hunting, and she passed a lot of deer. Yeah, that's a lot of deer that I know a lot of people wouldn't pass. So like her patience was impressive. A lot of uh he'll be a good one next year, Dad. That's that's uh that's pretty mature of her. Yeah, it was good, and like uh a friend of hers shot a deer this year, so like at the end of the year, she shot it in a rifle season, and and then she's like, Oh, like she shot one that I didn't. I was like, Well, you you've seen lots of deer that size, like you could have like some what you wanted to shoot, and but she and she's like, Yeah, I guess, and so maybe she'll be less patient next year, but I think yeah, like my issue. I show her a few pictures of deer that we have there, and she kind of gets her eyes locked on on a certain deer, and she's she's ready to shoot that one. So we had one deer this year as a really good five by five, so like a nice 10-point. And I've had him there for a couple years now, and uh and bow season would have been great because he was there like 20 minutes early, but as the time changes, by the time uh muzzle loader and crossbow season hit, it was kind of right at dusk. And there's a lot of days we went and sat and watched five, six deer coming through there, and we had a buck ten feet in front of us, and she passed all these deer, and five minutes after we left that deer would show up on camera. So it's frustrating for her, but yeah, she had fun doing it. So my goal is kind of to get her get her on the board, get her a deer.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's awesome that you guys do your household sounds like a lot of fun and slightly chaotic during hunting season.

SPEAKER_03:

Just a little.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we would get chaotic. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, uh Dave Jen, I appreciate you guys coming on the podcast and you're busy, especially with hockey season now and everything and work. But um, you know, you guys had a great hunting season and um learned a few things. And uh again, yeah, thanks for coming on. It was uh it was fun to hear about it and hear from both of you just reliving the experience.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, thank you, Ken.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thanks Mark and thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00:

Anytime so if you're still listening and you made it this far, uh rating or review on Apple and Spotify would be much appreciated from