From Bowhunting To Better Deer Herds: How Local Clubs Shape Regulations

If you’ve ever wondered why some places enjoy long archery seasons and robust deer herds while others lag behind, this conversation puts the puzzle together. We sit down with bowhunter advocate Tracy Price to unpack how local hunters can turn know-how and passion into real changes—longer seasons, smarter regulations, and stronger herds—by organizing through clubs that actually sit at the decision-making table.

We start with the surprising reality in New Brunswick: archery makes up a tiny slice of total harvest yet faces one of the shortest seasons in North America. Tracy maps out why extending bow season creates more opportunity without risking herd numbers, and why this isn’t a gun-versus-bow fight—it’s a hunter-opportunity issue. From there, we dive into the herd science that matters most: age structure and doe-to-buck ratios. Passing on yearling bucks and improving doe tag programs can push herd growth toward that 30% potential in good winters, instead of the 5% many see now.

Habitat gets an honest look too. Clearcuts, monoculture, and glyphosate reduce browse diversity, pushing deer into towns and lawns where food and safety converge. We share practical ways hunters are helping: food plots built with farmers, clover and brassicas that draw deer off crops, and a nuanced take on supplemental feeding in harsh winters. Gear debates aren’t off-limits either—compounds vs crossbows, draw weight rules—and Tracy outlines common-sense changes like lowering legal draw weight to 35 pounds, aligning orange requirements with other regions, and adding a short bow-only window to the moose season without altering the draw.

The thread through it all is agency. Clubs write and advance resolutions, governments listen when memberships are strong, and policies shift when hunters show up. If you want better seasons, healthier deer, and a real voice in wildlife policy, this is your roadmap. Subscribe, share with your hunting crew, and drop a review to help more folks find the show. What change will you put your name on next?

Check us out on Facebook  Hunts On Outfitting, or myself Ken Marr. Reach out and  Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!

Transcript

Welcome And Episode Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:11

This is Huntsun Outfitting Podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, Ken Meyer. I love everything hunting, the outdoors, and all things associated with it. From stories to how-tos, you'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. Hey. Yes, absolutely welcome. Thanks for tuning in and lending me your ears as always. So this week I sit down with Tracy Price and talk about the importance of joining your local hunting clubs and how they can give you a voice for some changes to hunting regulations. And uh, you know, their strength in numbers, right? So if you more people join, you get more of a voice. We talk about that, we talk about deer herd management and how some of the answers on how to improve it may surprise you. We get into archery talk and lots more. Before all that, we learn who Tracy is uh and we talk with him for an hour or so, but we get to know him first. So that way you know who's talking. Uh then uh some of the talk is more area specific and some is quite broad and might give you some ideas for where you are at. Also, this weekend, February 6th to 8th, the Hoop Crew Hunts and Opening Podcast. Crew, two members of it, me and Caleb, will be at the Dallas Safari Club in Atlanta, Georgia. Um, we're hoping to uh to possibly meet some of you guys there that are gonna be there. We will we'll stick out. Caleb's uh tall and lanky, I'm not quite as tall, but we're gonna have red Hunts and Opening podcast shirts on. We're quite excited to be down there. I've never been to Georgia before. Uh I was already talking to Kevin from Blue Sky Outfitting that was on the podcast uh last month, talking about the wolf hunting in Alberta and Northwest Territories. He's gonna be there, so we're looking forward to meeting him and lots of other people. So if you're gonna be down there at the Dallas Fiery Club in Atlanta, Georgia, this weekend, February 6th to the 8th, uh at the World Convention Center. I forget what it's called. And it's the biggest, it's the fourth largest convention center in North America and Atlanta there. Uh come see us. Come say hi. Love to talk to you. And um there's gonna be a lot of people there, but we hope to speak to quite a few of them. We're excited about it. And when we get back, we'll be doing a podcast shortly after. Also after this week's podcast, next week's our big two-year anniversary podcast. That's gonna be a lot of fun. Not gonna want to miss that. So let's talk to Tracy. Oh, and if you were looking to get a hold of us to maybe come on the podcast or suggest somebody for it, or just reach out to me, you can email me, hunts on outfitting at gmail.com, or you can find us on Facebook, Hunts on Outfitting, or find myself on there, Kenmeyer. Feel free to reach out. Some of you guys have been. It's been great talking with you from all over. Well, Tracy, super happy to have you out here. I appreciate you making the drive out. Um can't wait to do lots to uh to talk with you about. Um but before we get going, you know, everyone's kind of wondering, they're gonna be hearing your voice and all that throughout it. Who is Tracy Price?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So I am the uh I'm the bow hunter rep for Archery New Brunswick. Uh and uh we started that about three years ago. Um and uh once I volunteered for that, it kind of snowballed after after after that. The uh I'm now the first vice president of the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation. Okay. I'm also a member of UGOMB. Uh gotta renew that here in the next day or two. And uh and uh I'm a graduate of the uh National Deer Association's Deer Steward Program. Yep. And uh yeah, I'm that's all my hats that I can remember right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That's quite a few, yeah. And then um so you grew up in a small town in New Brunswick, Canada. Price full and then uh how did have you been you've been hunting your whole life?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, yeah. I was uh I I can remember chasing my dad when I was five years old, bird hunting, and uh yeah, uh started deer hunting right when when back then it was eighteen, when when you could start deer hunting. And then I joined the military and I got away from it for a few years just because of training and whatnot. Yep. And then uh got back into it around like really heavy in 03.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So you had quite a you had a lengthy military career, thank you for your service. Yep. Uh what what was what was your position in that?

Military Service And Return To Hunting

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Uh I originally joined the Air Force and uh that didn't work out, so they asked me what I wanted to do. Um motion sickness or no uh flight training. I I failed flight training. Oh yeah, yeah. Um they asked me what I wanted to do, and I said infantry NCM, and uh they asked me a couple more times and I kept on saying the same thing, so they're like really infantry? Yeah, yeah, they thought I was nuts. And then uh but I wanted to be close to home. I was I was out in Cold Lake Alberta at the time and I was just like I just want to be close to home. I had some friends' parents uh pass away and and so took the opportunity. Yeah. And then I spent uh I was an N N CM in the infantry for from uh 2001 or 2000 2000 to uh 2008.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

And in that time I did a tour to Haiti with 2RCR, um, and another tour in Afghanistan 07 with 2 RCR.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, what was you yeah, because I saw on your Facebook you're in yeah, you're in Kandahar in 2007, so like that was pretty wild, was it?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, it was it was when when I was there because I didn't s I didn't last long there. Um the uh it was pretty quiet for the first few months because they're they're fair weather fighters.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

I I've heard that. I heard they have like they have actual fighting season, like we have hang season, whatever. They I heard that they have well it's it's time to start fighting again. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

So so it wasn't overly active. There's there's there's still activity, but um, especially if you're on the CLPs and stuff like that, like any soft targets they they would hit. Okay. But uh I I got wounded um in March, which is when it was just starting to kick off.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

You had a picture on there, was it you guys had a what's not a tank, but uh It was a lav. A lav. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

We got hit by an ID. It was a suicide boring ID.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

SVB ID.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Because I well, I just I saw yeah, picture, I was like, something happened because it was fucked up and those look like they're built quite heavy duty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, yeah, and uh I had my head and shoulders outside the vehicle, so I took some shrapnel up my arm and ended up getting sent home. Yeah, and then uh when I got home I kind of on the fence on what I wanted to do. I I had been approached by a couple police forces in the past, so I thought about going that way. And uh and I decided to commission and go back to university and went back to UMB. I did a sports marketing degree. Oh yeah, recreation sports marketing. Just like advertising for like uh like CCM and things like that. Oh yeah. Is that it? Yeah, kinda like kind of pretty much anything, like from from doing high school sports to to doing case studies on NHL.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Like Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, it's pretty neat. Yeah, that is, huh. Yeah, and then I graduated uh that in twenty eleven, went back to two RCR and uh bounced around, did some uh different jobs from two RCR over to five C D C and then right before I retired I went over to JPSU with the uh uh back then it was back then it was called JPSU, now it's the transition center, but I I ran their uh personnel sport and uh did that for a year and then and then got out. Huh. And worked for Irving for a year. Yeah. Uh I ran the terminal at for Midland. Oh yes in uh in Fredericton, and uh that wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

No. Uh there was one big trucking company here.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So I uh that just wasn't for me. So I uh I left there and got a job back with D as a HR consultant.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Okay. Yeah. Huh. Interesting then so you uh you found time to hunt throughout that as well. Oh yeah. Um so you're you're you've got uh archery and be, so when did the bow hunting come in? Did you didn't grow up doing that, did you?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

No, I I was always an I was always a gun hunter. Um still have my thirty thirty out six, my browning. Yeah. Uh 30 out six.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Export.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah. Yeah. And uh yeah, I I I was an avid gun hunter, really had no d desire to bow hunt. And uh I fired a bow when I was like 18. I was like, yeah, sure, cool, whatever. Yeah. Well, I was into guns.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I used to say I was like, I don't know, like I like to hear I used I like bow hunting now, but I said I used to like hearing the bang. I was like, the hunt just didn't feel complete unless you heard a bang. Yeah. And then you know you get your first bow kill, like, oh that was pretty cool.

Discovering Archery And First Bows

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, yeah, that that that whack is something else. Whack beats the bang. Yeah. Oh yeah. But uh so yeah, COVID hit in uh in 2020, as everybody knows, and and everybody went to a standstill, so I I downloaded the Wild TV Plus app.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Oh yeah. We'll get flagged now that you said COVID on here.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, yeah. But uh yeah, I downloaded that app and I just binged it and everything I could find because we couldn't do anything. Yep. And uh and I got into Bozone Live in the fall of 2020.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Very Ryan uh Kohler's on the podcast here before, and yeah, he's very passionate about the Edmonton Bowzone and stuff out there in Alberta and yeah, yeah. It looks like a lot of opportunity there.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Between between uh how to hunt with why Ryan Kohler and uh and Bozone Live, I I got hooked. Yeah. I got hooked on the concept of it.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And uh went out and bought a bow that just before Christmas that year.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

And what did you get and what was your thought process behind because I mean there's a lot of brands and if you look at them, they're they're pretty similar, really. Your modern compound bow companies are are all I find quite similar.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah. So I uh I really had no idea what I was doing and and I uh still won't profess to be an expert. But uh I uh I had blown up my shoulder um twice in the military and once before I joined. So I I didn't know if I could draw a bow. And uh I always had it ticked off on my license because back when I got my license back and I think I got my first license in what ninety ninety six, ninety-five. Um they told us back then when I did my hunter safety in ninety-two to to check op bow. Oh because they knew the course was coming and the course came. And uh so I was grandfather, but I still did the course just because I wanted to feel good about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

And uh the uh so yeah, I I drove down to Bassboro, found the cheapest bow that they had at and it was on sale. It was a bear legitimate, and uh took it home and just started shooting in the backyard before Christmas and and found out that my shoulder could take it.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And I I dialed it right up to 70 pounds and really yeah, oh yeah, your shoulder can really just to test it. Yeah. And uh yeah, I I had no problem with it. I was I was pretty shocked, yeah, to be honest. And then uh after Christmas, I uh went and bought a hoit. Oh, I was gonna they are nice.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Those hoits are nice. I've got an obsession. Uh I do like that a lot, but yeah, your shoulder must have been fine pulling that back. Remember, mine's 65 pound draw weight. I'm a small guy, I can do it fine, but it's a weird muscle. Yeah. You know, it is it's a it's a first time I did it, I had you know some trouble because I was like, I don't think I used whatever muscles doing this a whole lot. But um, yeah, so yeah, you figured out quickly, like, ah, the bear's uh entry and yeah, it's going to like a bear's like a it's like the the sight on it is like an old Tasco site, you know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Like it's just not it's not your top top end yeah bow. I I still really like that bow. Yeah. When I first got my my hoit, I was like, I don't know, man. I really kind of like the bear because it was smaller. It was a little bit lighter. Yeah, like it it but the hoit when she got that thing dug in, man, she she's pretty good.

Crossbow Debate And Fairness

SPEAKER_01 12:37

You can feel the quality in it and stuff, yeah. Um so that's something so you didn't go the route of the uh crossbow because of your shoulder. What are your thoughts on crossbows?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

I did one year I bought a crossbow and and I did one year of it and I hated it because it's the old infantry guy, it's like carrying a C9 or a C6 to the tree stand. Oh yeah. Uh it's just a big blocky, heavy like I had a an X caliber. And uh I didn't really I didn't enjoy it at all. I think I sat with it twice.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

And just no enjoyment in it at all. So um crossbow wasn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Um my view on crossbows has changed over time. Um the reason why I got the crossbow is because I didn't think I could draw a bow.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

And that's fair because you had a shoulder injury. Yeah. I'm uh I might ruffle some feathers saying this, but I think I've said it before, I'm against them for unless you have an injury or you're older, or you're too young that you can't like I got a buddy, uh Dave, he'd probably be listening. His daughter's got a crossbow right now because she cannot pull back enough to kill a deer. Yeah. Right? Which is fine. And then she'll get older and you know, compound. But some people are like, I don't know, it's got a scope, it's got a trigger. I you know, if someone's you know, some people are like, Well, I don't have enough time to practice with the compound, so that's why I got a crossbow, it's like, well, then bow hunting's just not for you. And I think crossbows can be used, but I don't think they should be allowed unless those provisions, if you're too young or you know, you got an injury or too old during uh bow season. Yeah. Really.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, I I I was in that same boat um and then when we were debating on whether or not to include boat crossbow hunters in with the Archery New Brunswick Bow Hunter membership, um I took a deep dive into it and I found a study through I think it was Bow Hunter magazine. Yeah. Did it do that one? And it was uh comparing um the success rates between bow hunters and crossbow hunters. And what they found is that crossbow hunters are about 15% more successful than bow hunters. Because you really you have to get that it's easier. It is it's a scope and the trigger, it's a and one of the things that they said too was it's fifteen percent more effective, but what could skew that is that you're actually finding your game because you're not taking a bad shot. Yeah. Um so if you think about it, if if you have 200 hunters, 100 are bow hunters, a hundred are crossbow hunters, 15 more guys are gonna be successful. Uh it it's not it's a drop in the bucket.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, yeah, I know. But I guess like the part of the you know, the comp the earlier seasons in most provinces or states and stuff, and and you get, you know, a little bit of preference is just because you're putting in the extra time and practicing. Whereas with the crossbow, you can shoot it and practice, but it's not the same salad.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I say to all able-body archers, like if if you can if you're able-bodied, yeah. It is it's it's like taking the training wheels off. Yeah. Going going into a compound. Yeah. Um, you should definitely try it because once you do it, like it took me three years to get a shot at a deer. And and uh yeah, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

No. And but it's supposed to be like that. That's why the rewards.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Oh, to be a bowl hunter, you have to love the hunt more than the harvest.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah. But I find that the crossbow guys are kind of uh people get mad, but um are the people that are able-bodied and shooting it. They're kind of like those people that want the participation trophy. You know, like I want all the benefits too. I just don't want to put in the work that you have to to get good with the compound. Yeah. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

And uh what I said to I was talking with uh Sylvan Caron, who's the president of the New Brunswick Tear Association, he's he's dead set against crossbows. Because he looks at Quebec. Quebec, a lot of people hunt with a crossbow, and very few people hunt with a compound. Why do you think um I don't know, Quebec? It's it's special, right? It is. Um it's its own.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I wouldn't say special, it's more like that red-headed step child, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

But yeah, they they uh they do things differently up there and and uh the their stats are really like he was showing me their harvest stats, like it's super skewed. Really? Um like you're looking at like one zone had 22 comp like bow kills and 148 crossbow kills. That many. And but that just tells me like you're probably looking at like you're probably looking at a thousand hunters in that zone that are hunting with archery tackle, and nine hundred of them are using crossbows, and a hundred of them are using compounds, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Um I didn't realize it's that popular. Yeah. There, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Oh yeah. And and it's growing in popularity across the states. Like um, I watch uh crossbow. Oh yeah. Really? Well, I I watch uh a lot of different shows on wild TV and and I also have the uh outdoors, my outdoors TV um app. And uh one of the shows I really like is Buck Commander. Yeah, yeah. And those guys were hardcore compound users right up until probably two, three years ago. And then they got a crossbow sponsor and and now it's all crossbows. And and to be honest, but they put in the entertainment process, yeah. An entertainment perspective, I don't find it nearly as entertaining watching a guy in a in a box blind with a crossbow as opposed to a guy in a tree standing.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Well, just you know, what just put a gun in his hands. And there's nothing against gunhunters at all. I I gunhunt. Um but yeah, just I don't think I don't know. I don't think that crossbow should be compared to compound bow hunting or the same um I don't know. It's hard to Yeah. It just i they just they didn't put in the same amount of work or anything to be able to do that.

New Brunswick’s Short Archery Season

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And if anybody wants to and anybody has a study out there that that tells me differently, then then we might change our approach at Archery New Brunswick, but right now it uh it's just not significant enough to we harvest six hundred deer in the province with archery tackle. Um that's less than five percent of the total harvest. Yeah. And it's point three percent of the total population. Um we are uh completely insignificant.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

To be honest, bobcats probably kill kill more deer in the province than what uh bow hunters you do. Wow. And uh yeah, it's uh we're we're we're dropping the bucket. Yeah. And uh and we have the shortest bow season in North America.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

In North America. Really? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Wow and it's significant. Yep. Uh I was going through the stats there the other day. Um we used to be second to Idaho. Last year we had 48 days, and we used to be second to Idaho, but Idaho Idaho had 53 days, I think it was. Um they just up theirs to 75.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

And now we're second to Washington State at 71.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

So we are drastically down.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I know uh even Alberta talking to different guys from Alberta and stuff, like if you're into bow hunting, you can hunt basically any species. Like a lot, like the rifle and stuff, it's over the it's a some of it's a draw and things like that, but with uh bow, like it it can be over the counter eggs and things like that, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah. And uh their seasons September 1st to November 30th, um, they get close, I think it's a hundred close to a hundred days. The national average in Canada is ninety-one.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And and we get forty-eight. Yeah. Um and and it's not a gun versus versus bow issue. Yeah. It's it's a hunting rights issue. Yep. Um, everybody in New Brunswick should have the same hunting opportunity, unless the deer population is completely in the tank, which it isn't. It's it's it's only been higher nine times in the last fifty years.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Really?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Um and it might even be more than that this year because we haven't gotten the population estimates from la from the big game report from last season. Yeah. Um the harvest was up by a by a fair bit. Like I heard wasn't it one of the highest? A couple hundred. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so the population's probably estimate's gonna probably go up again. And we could be um there's a couple seasons there that uh last year we were 162, I think was the estimate. And there was a couple seasons in the 160s, um, so we might be even like uh the highest outside of five years in the last 50. So um is the population healthy? Um no, there's a lot that we need to do in New Brunswick to get a d healthy deer population. Um but there's no reason in this province why um New Brunswick hunters should not get the same opportunity as everybody else in in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

As far as number of days.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

So that's where the archery and B comes in. So did you look at a lot of other clubs throughout North America and all that?

Herd Health: Age Structure And Ratios

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And well, when when I first uh got on this, the I'll tell you why, is uh I had I had had a meeting With Mike Holland about some different ideas that I had.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Uh New Brunswick's former Minister of Natural Resources. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

He asked me to come in and talk with his guys, and and I had that talk, and he told me Muzzle Loader was coming. And he he hinted, and there'll be archery in that. Um and then there wasn't. And that kind of got my feathers up. And Mike can tell you it did.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, because uh people uh because we have listeners from all over in in New Brunswick. We just started this two years ago. If you pay an extra ten dollars, you get an extra week of hunting for our deer season with muzzle loader. Yeah. Which I think I think crossbows could be included in that. And it'd be nice to have slug guns in there too.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Um but uh yeah, and then just leave bow season for regular bow season. Because we get an extra three weeks. What's that? Or bow. Well, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah, it's an it's an extra twenty-one days.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yes, for bow season before the regular rifle season starts.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

It's 21 days depending on when the first of October falls. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Because it's the it starts the first Monday in October.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Um, so you could start on the eighth, technically.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Um, and then also if it gets backed off, then you get a couple Sundays there that you're not allowed to hunt. Um, so yeah, it's uh it varies. It varies between 43 and 48 days. Yep. Um But yeah, the uh so when it didn't show up in muzzle loader, I I started looking into I started talking with some actually one of the guys on uh Bozone Live, uh uh Mike Bishon, he's an ex PPCLI guy. Um chatted with him a bit and whatnot, and he said, Man, you just gotta organize and you gotta get an association. I'm like, do you guys have he asked if we had a Bo Hunters Association? I'm like, I don't think we do.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

So uh I put it out there on Ibn Hunters, yeah, uh, the Facebook group. And uh Kevin Fisher, who's the executive director of Archery New Brunswick, he uh he got in contact with me and and said that Archery New Brunswick wanted to be the voice of it uh of of Bo Hunters. So uh that's how we kind of got the ball rolling initially. Um I started representing Archery New Brunswick at the Nebraska Wildlife Federation uh meetings, and that's how I got involved with them and got uh lasso'd into the vice president position. And uh oh yes, and I'm also on the board of directors of the Canadian Wildlife Federation because of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Oh, because of that.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah, yeah. So um it's it's snowballed, and uh but we're having an uphill battle in in getting any change uh because there is a very uh gun hunter versus bow hunter uh attitude in the province. Um but like I said, this is not about um that. This is about if you wanna if you want to pick up a bow and you want to go hunting earlier or later, um, you should have the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah. Um so have you like I said, have you have you you looked into Edmonton and all that, but if you compare it across North America and talk to other uh bow hunting groups and all that and just kind of seeing? Because I mean, uh like we were talking before the podcast, it's too bad New Brunswick of finds lacking well, I'll say they are lacking terribly. Like you look in uh Alberta scene's pretty good, BC and stuff. Most of the states like very progressive in their wildlife conservation and boots on the ground and biologists out there and they're they're tagging things and radio collaring them and this and that. Uh here unless I don't know of any. Really. Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yeah, the theory. There's been a few studies they're trying to find out what's uh what's going on with urban deer um and stuff like that. And they they do do uh with Roadkill, they were doing uh fetal uh fetal measurements um for to der determine when the rut peak rut was.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

And and stuff like that. But um no, we we're kind of behind most other places. Yeah. We don't have a big game management plan, which I as far as I can tell, we're the only province that does it.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Which is crazy because you know, we've got excellent hunting and stuff here. We we should be capitalizing on that more and making sure to have it, you know, renewable going forward and more research done on it and everything, just to, you know, utilize it to the full extent and just make sure it's healthy and everything.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah, yeah. The uh we are like when I when I was at the Canadian Wildlife Federation, I I met representatives from BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, every province and territory. Yeah. And uh talked to them about the bow hunting situation and they couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Um they could not believe that we we get and and even even with our combined when I say bow hunting days in other states and provinces, um bow hunting encompasses firearm season and and muzzle odor. Most people switch, right? They they don't bow hunt into rifle season, they they switch to rifle and they go to muzzle odor when that happens. So when I say four forty-eight days, that's the total number, including rifle season.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

It if you look at just uh if you look at our muzzle loader season last year, we're at 53 days. And again, you go to Washington State, they get 71. And how most states and provinces do it, it's pretty much a minimum three to one ratio. And and the reason being is if if you if let's say we tripled the number of days for bow hunting, we current last or two years ago we harvested 600 and 12 deer by bow. Even if the bow hunt a bow hunters bow hunters if we tripled it, they would take 1200 animals.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Right.

Let Them Grow: Education Over Mandates

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Um again, that's less than one percent of the total herd population and and uh still would have a insignificant hit. But if you tripled the rifle season, which everybody would love, um You'd see a lot more dead deer. You would wipe out the a third of the herd.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. That yeah, yeah. Is that on par for most places?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Most places can do more than that because the herd is in better shape.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Um, like I said, we we have good numbers right now, and and we've we've benefited off of quild winters. A lot of quite a few mild winters. Um I think we're going on 10 years. But um a healthy deer population will grow at 30 percent year after year.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Now, how much do you we've I've debated this before with different people, and I was like, I don't know, I'd just like to debate, but I don't think I have leg I don't know enough to have a leg to stand on. How much do coyotes are they opportunists? Like they'll they're eating more roadkill and stuff deer, or are they taking down a lot of deer here, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 29:12

They'll take down deer for sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah. Um button. Do they take down as many as we think? Um I think they some people think they take down a lot. I mean, do I hate coyotes and I always try to manage them the best I can, but are they actively killing a lot here, you think? I think we I think in New Brunswick. Um Brunswick, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

How do I put it? They get more credit than what they're due. Um there's coyotes in every other state and province that has white-tailed deer.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Um we if you talk to people about coyotes and deer in New Brunswick, y people think that they are the reason why we don't have a good deer population, because we get a n we get a bunch of snow and the coyotes just go to town on them. Yeah. Um but if you've ever been to Georgian Bay in Owen Sound, Ontario, in the middle of February, there's eight feet of snow. Um and there's more deer than you can shake a stick at.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Really?

SPEAKER_00 30:13

There are deer everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Um I wondered like if the deer population would be that much better if, you know, because n not many people trap and stuff anymore or anything, if we really hammered down at the coyote population. Do you think that would you'd notice the deer population thrive even more?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I don't think it would have a a massive impact.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Um again, like I said, and if you look at Alberta, they they have way more coyotes than us.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

And they have wolves and they have mountain lions. So if if those predators were that big of an impact in Alberta, we would hear about it, right? And they do have an impact. Don't don't get me wrong. Yeah, I don't want to discourage anybody from hunting coyotes. That's true. But there but there's other things that we need to do to our deer herd to get it so that it'll survive winter. And like I said, um a healthy deer herd grows at 30% per year. Ours is growing at about five. And that's with good winters. Now, why do you um it has to do with sex ratio and it has to do with age structure.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Um, we're not recruiting a lot of young deer because um we're so hard on the on the yearling buck population. Yeah.

Forestry, Glyphosate, And Habitat

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So here's something. I've talked about this before with people. I think we debated on the podcast before one time. Uh would you be for antler restrictions? Um the places that have done it, did they did they do it in Quebec? Was there a place in Quebec? They trialed it in a couple zones. I think it worked well, didn't it? Yeah, and I know in the states and some places like Texas and things like that where they do it, I think it has it's quite positive, really.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

The likelihood of getting an antler point restriction passed uh through through the government is is nil.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Um, but we we have a we have a resolution Archery New Brunswick does um with the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation this year, and the president of the MBWF loves it. Um DN I've already briefed DNR on it. Um they they like the concept of it too. Is uh based on New York State's model. Um they did an education and promotion program. So they put it in their their hunter safety, uh their bow hunter safety, they they put it in their hunter hunting trap book on websites, advertised on Facebook, everything. Um let them let them grow to let them or let them go, let them grow. Well program.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

I mean, some people are you know, they're just like, oh, I just want it for the freezer. It's like you can barely see the nuts on it.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Just let it be like a button bucks. Like, I don't know. Well, it it's not even that. Like um I I say that to people too, like um a 250, 230 pound deer is a lot more meat than a hundred and ten-pound deer. Yeah, um, but um I get it, like if people really need to feed their family, they gotta do what they gotta do. But the the benefits of passing on that yearling buck for the herd health is massive.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Really?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Um because what happens is if you have too young of a deer pop uh buck population, those young bucks will take up too much of the breeding.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

And if they take up too much of the breeding and we get a hard winter, um, they'll they don't make it. Um I've literally had the deer biologists say, I don't know why you guys care about um yearling bucks, they don't survive the winters. Um well that's the reason why we care about them. We need more yearling bucks to make it through the winters to be able to have three-year-olds, four-year-olds and five-year-olds.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Um and it it makes for better hunting.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Aaron Powell, so you're saying like you say you have uh you have ten, and of that ten, eight of them could die. So if you have twenty, then you're gonna have that much more you know, making it. So that's what yeah. The biologist didn't get that or Yeah well Yeah. Um we won't get into that. In a random about way. Um so that that's why so New York State preaches that. Let them go, let them grow. Yeah, and they don't have that antlers.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

And over a five-year period, I think it was a five or an eight-year period, they went from fifty-seven percent of their buck harvest was yearlings down to twenty-five.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And that's without restrictions that's just them preaching it. That's just suggesting it.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yep. Just an education program.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Wow, hats off to the hunters there then.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah. And then uh and then the other thing factor is the age or the uh buck to dough ratio. Um it's good in some areas. Um and most of those areas is w are where you're seeing a lot of deer.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Um you think too many doughs is because you hear some people like, oh, there's nothing but doughs. We need to shoot more dough, shoot more doughs.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Well, we need a controlled dough harvest. Um ideally, if all things created equal, you'd want a one-to-one. Uh one buck for every dough and and to keep a balance. Yeah. Um in New Brunswick, don't want to go one to one.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah. Um actually in the US, it's almost like uh I'm thinking right now, I'm thinking Iowa, Illinois, things like that, because you watch the hunting shows and there there is some of them, it does seem one to one, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah. And uh down there, it you'll be hard-pressed to find a well-managed state that's not two to one. Really?

unknown 35:30

Yeah.

Food Plots, Baiting, And Urban Deer

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Wow. So we need to get to like a two to one, three to one um ratio, and that has to be controlled. Yeah. Obviously. Um if we went just a general tag, I I think we would run in the same issues if we went three or triple and gun gun season. Yeah. Um but um uh we need a better dough tag program, in my opinion. Um I have I have ideas about how that could work, but um some people listen, some people don't.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how it is. But I know I've always said that on here, I've always hats off to the the states for their QDMA quality deer management because I mean you the proof is in the pudding. I mean, you go out there driving up there, watching TV, things like that. It is from the looks of it, really well managed. And then but you you gotta wonder what's working, where the you have sometimes you have the antly restrictions, you have an urn a buck. We have to shoot a doe first, then a buck or the or higher. But you you see too food plots in this, and that's a lot bigger out there too. And I don't know, that's private that's private land. That's private land, yeah, how much that plays into it. But then their forests, I mean, here, this is another whole bag of worrants, but we do spray a lot of glyphosate here. I don't, but there's certain companies here that do.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

You think they don't in Iowa?

SPEAKER_01 36:47

They do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah, I suppose on the corn. Yeah. Glyphosate is definitely a major issue. It is.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Because but you but in the corn thing, forests you aren't eating more so the corn right then, but here they're spraying the glyphosate to kill all the hardwood, which the deer and the moose in some areas of the woods, that's what they survive on. Yeah. You know, during the winter and all that, and I think other times of year too, I suppose. Uh, and they're spraying that. I mean, how I've I've seen I'm not gonna say where in New Brunswick, but it's land owned by the company that owns most of this province. And I I've never in my life seen a tumor like that on a deer. This deer had a tumor, it was around its neck, like front shoulder. It was damn near touching the ground. I was like, I've never that was crazy. Yeah. And I, you know, I don't think that's normal.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

I I would say the forestry practices in general are bad.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

They're hurting the deer.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I was up in Dungarvin area there um in bird season, and it was incredible. Uh it literally in places look like the prairies. Yeah. You could not see a tree for miles.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

So you guys have been pushing for that with the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation, everything's just better forest practices. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah. That's one of the things that we're going to push.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Uh like I go to Maine every year, and I'll tell you, Maine, their logging industry there is probably bigger than here. It's massive, and their forests are they're great because they do like strip cutting and stuff. There's no spraying there, there's no clear cutting the way they do here. And the the wildlife, because I mean, their woods is the same as ours, basically. It's boreal forest. It should be similar, but it's been planted back here, monoculture, and their wildlife is ten times more abundant, in my opinion, that I've seen there than here. But it's left more natural. Yeah. And their wood pop in their wood business is still thriving.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

You know, but oh yeah, like don't get me wrong. If if we didn't have glyphosate in the forestry industry, there there would be an improvement on the deer.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

You'd notice quite a difference. You'd notice a difference. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the uh yeah, the clear cutting and all that. But yeah, so that yeah, that's interesting. So our our population. So have you have you learned things from other provinces and states too on besides forestry that could help improve the deer population? Those two big things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

The age structure and and the uh and the uh sex ratio are the two big things. Yep. Um and uh that like honestly, we get those two things sorted out, um we will be in a much, much better place. And I'm not saying that the deer population is ever gonna be 300,000 years.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It it never will. Um but the key is when you have that higher winter, you don't get knocked down by 40, 50 percent.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

And uh that's the goal.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Uh we gotta get them winter survival.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah. More deer to survive, so that way the ones that are knocked out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

It's made up for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Uh what state or province do you find does the best job with their well, I guess two questions, management and their bow hunting practices.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

That's a good question. Um Roughly. Missouri's pretty good. Mississippi's like overrun.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Well, what what what's Mississippi? How many deer can you legally shoot a year there? One person.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

I thought it's like eight or something.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

I could be wrong, but I think it was a like our our our deer per square kilometer is two point one, two point two. Uh their deer per square kilometer is like fourteen. Really? It's insane. Like uh almost two million deer in the in the state.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Really?

SPEAKER_00 40:32

But it's like no winters. No, no winters. And uh and we didn't have we don't have the egg land. That's that's big.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Um but yeah, like Missouri and Iowa are they manage their herds really well. Um Illinois used to be like flagship. Now they're starting to get a little bit have some issues.

Extending Seasons And Policy Resolutions

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Well, I don't know how much you know about this, and this is uh, you know, this is an area that no one wants to talk about a two lot a lot because we want to pretend that's not gonna happen here and avoid it, but CWD. Where I mean I know it's in some provinces of Canada in the States, and there's some areas that seem to be getting hit real hard by it. Uh have you guys been monitoring?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

I don't know if the province is monitoring that at all.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Um because where's the closest place that is known to I think it's been as east as uh New York, I think. Okay. Yeah, because I know Saskatchewan has it.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah, it doesn't tend to be really prevalent in in uh but that m that might no, I think that's EHD and blue tongue. Uh not really pl prevalent up north. They're starting to see it in Missouri, Iowa area because of global warming. Um but uh I I don't think we have a concern for that here yet.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

No. So how do some people like all baiting's spreading it and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 41:54

What are you would that's I don't know enough about it, but yeah, that's that's in in those states that don't allow baiting. Um but um like I said, we we don't have a C B CWD issue here as far as I know. Um if we did you'd know it.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Yeah. Yeah. And that doesn't come with high population, does it? That just comes it j just it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Uh it's a I forget what it what causes that. Something in the soil.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

I know it's in the soil. Okay, I know it's in the same family as the like mad cow disease and stuff. But um yeah, all right. Well, no, that's good. Um so what else is going on with the uh wildlife around here? Um like what do you mean? Well, it healthy, I mean the bear population and the bear population is beyond healthy.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah. Uh we have way too many bears.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Did it go up a lot you find uh uh I don't know if you know this not during COVID when we didn't have the Americans coming down here? I think it did.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

No, when I was in the military like in 2016, between 2012 and 2016, you could see a a drastic increase in the training area.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Really?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Um not a lot of pressure down there for it on them. And uh it got to the point where you could not travel the training area without seeing a bear. Oh yeah. And and when we I was running courses and whatnot, and we'd be doing reconnaissance patrols and stuff like that for for PLQs and running into bears all night.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Oh yeah. And they weren't scared.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Were they scared or no, they'd come into the camp at night.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Really?

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Wow. So it'd be uh be easy hunting, yeah. Um Huh. Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. It'd keep you on your toes, I guess, as long as they're I don't know, you hope they're uh friendly fire kind of thing, but with the bears, yeah. Um yeah, no, it's i like I said, it's interesting talking about the deer populations here and like looking around at the other provinces and states and trying to figure out what needs to be done, what what's working and what isn't. But I mean your guys' big goal is to try to extend The bow hunting here.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

And I've said this to the the DR team, I've said it to Rod Cumberland. The US spends annually about$500 million on whitetail research.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Really?

SPEAKER_00 44:29

That's free. Wow. For us. We'd be idiots not to not to pay attention to it. And it's evolved. Just like we So they put that information public stuff out there.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah. Wow.

Moose Tags, Draw Weight, And Safety Rules

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Just like we we now know that DDT is not really good for spraying in classrooms. Yeah. Back in the 50s they didn't. And we're talking when we when we instituted our whitetail management policies that we have with the do tag system that we have and so on and so on. Um that was um 30 years ago. So um 30, 35 years ago. Yeah. Um times have changed and and and knowledge has changed. And we can do things that like I said, I call it fortifying the herd. Um things that make it so that when when that winter hits, we don't get decimated. Yeah. And on good winters, you get that 30% growth. Yeah. So um that's what I like to see here. And like I said, as far as the bow hunting side, like again, it's it's about New Brunswickers being able to have the same opportunity as everywhere else. And listen, I I wish we had the deer population that we could go um a hundred days of rifle.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Um and not have an impact, but it would be it would be devastating. Same with muzzle odor. If you went a hundred days of muzzle odor, it'd be devastating.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

But bow and crossbow, we're not even looking for a hundred days, we're looking for 75. And uh we can handle 75.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Um our deer population is double of that of Nova Scotia's approximately. Um, they're getting they got 96 days.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Really? So I didn't know it's that long.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's that's the issue that we're trying to push for Archery New Brunswick.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yeah. Here here's a question too. I don't know, maybe it's too much of a biology one, but I mean I've always heard not to, but when we have a really harsh winter or something, you hear people like putting hay out for the deer, giving them feed or whatever. Is that hard? I heard that can be hard on their guts and stuff because they're not used to that kind of roughage or whatever that time of year, because their stomachs have already adjusted and the microbes or whatever you want to call it to winter gross. And then they get that and it just kind of it can be hard on them.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah, yeah. Winter feeding can be very dangerous. Okay, that's if you're not doing it properly. And and with the right nutrition.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Right. That's the keys. Yeah. Hmm. So yeah, I know, because I've talked to people about that before, and like I don't think that's good for them. Like, yeah. I don't know. So uh what's do you have a good memorable uh hunting story, your first bow harvest?

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Uh well, I uh it it's more the it's funny, like I said, yeah, with bow hunting you have to love the hunt more than harvest. Yes, yeah. Um so I have better stories about knock eating deer than thanks that's all part of it.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

The when I sh I shot my first one, not this past fall, but the fall before. And uh and it wasn't one of my targets. He was on my target list. Uh my target list had gotten smaller and or bigger and bigger as I wasn't um I wanted to get that first one with the bow. And uh I thought this deer had his antlers outside the ears. I thought he was three and a half, and and when I shot him, he was definitely a two and a half year old.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Oh yeah.

How Clubs Influence Regulations

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Um but yeah, he uh he came in on a rattle really with six does. He was chasing six does and and uh he came in and uh presented a perfect quartering away shot and and I heard him. Yep. And uh right after that I was talking to my neighbors and uh for him to come out and help me with the track and drag. And uh one of my other targets came in that was definitely an older deer. Oh yeah. And uh yeah, it was it was it was funny. Yeah. But uh yeah, the first year I bow hunted, I had my target buck, a beautiful eight point at 60 yards, and couldn't get him any closer. And uh I'm not I'm not shooting at 60 yards, yeah. Um not Levi Morgan. Um but uh and then the next year I had my target buck at 30 yards face on and he pegged me. Um I use a lifeline I don't know if for tree stands. Yep. Um I think he saw that move and he just trip tracked it right up the tree. Really? Yeah. So um, and then then I shot the one. And then this year I had uh a nice uh two and a half year old eight point come in and uh I I was gonna try to draw on him just to try to draw on him to get the practice. Yeah, but uh he pegged my movement.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

He did, yeah, yeah. I wonder, you know, in some areas where people are hunting more out of tree stands than ground blah and stuff, the deer they probably do that from their nose stuff, they learn to look up. Really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

I know turkeys do.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Yeah. Uh that spot there I was hunting this year. Uh I had a I had a turkey there every day.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

And and as soon as it would hit the corner of the field, it it would spot me and just. Well, their eyesight's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah, it's unreal. Yeah the turkeys. Like people are like, oh, it's a big dumb bird. Like, pfft, not really. No, they're pretty smart. I've never found them dumb for a second, but I've had a lot of people say that. Like, their eyesight's unreal and they're you know, their hearing for not having ears, just that, you know, bone canal thing in there, whatever. It it's pretty crazy what they can hear.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

You know, yeah, I I seen seen quite a few turkeys this year. Have you? Yeah. Um, yeah, like I was hunting uh Majorville Gemseg area and then uh out towards Tracy and Verticon Junction. And yeah, like um I do food plots. Um I have permission at a bunch of different firms and I do food plots on the farms. So what do you what are you planting? What's your uh go-to clover for the summer and and and whatnot, and then you get into the brasscas and the and the tubers and the do you mow the clover? I don't just because I don't have the uh the uh the ability to. I I do everything with my four-wheeler.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Um my neighbor got a tractor this year, which was great at one of my spots, yeah, or two of my spots. Um, but before that I was using like a uh called the groundhog through Rackstack. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And uh that thing worked like a charm. Like I was doing half acre food plots with that thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

A lot of laps.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, you're you're there for two, two and a half hours.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yeah. Yeah, groundhog's just a thing on the four-wheel that you hook up, it's it's disc. Yeah, basically. Yeah. Small disc that hooks your hitch, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Yeah. Yeah, but uh, I love it. It it it takes my deer season from from what used to be basically like middle of September, start baiting and and then hunt it in the fall. Yeah. Now it's 365 days a year. It's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah, yeah. I that's I like putting in the work for I'm lucky I have the t I have the tractor, but putting in the work for the food plot and and everything, I like that more than hunting, honestly. You know, yeah. I like just being active, being at it, you know, planting it, fertilizing it, and uh just watching it grow and you know, hope that you work the ground right and put the seed in properly. And you know, with the clover, I do mow it, um, unless it's I know that we're like this past summer we had a drought, then I I sh kind stopped you know, mowing it just to I don't want to burn it kind of thing. And it it worked. Um the still came up fine. I've mowed it three times and then I didn't mow it again because we didn't have rain for basically a month and a half. Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's still but no, I I like that. It's a lot of fun just putting in putting in the work for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Final Takeaways And Listener Support

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah, and uh I find it helps with getting permissions with firms. Yes. Um, because I'm basically putting in a distraction crop. Yeah. Yeah. And deer will prefer a high nutrient uh food plot over some crops. Yeah. And the first year I I did my food plot down in down Gemseg. Um the the farmer couldn't believe that the deer weren't t hitting his peas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

And uh and then So you you had brassicas planted then and that that kept uh the peasant.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah, the clover, clover, brassica, and and uh and uh what else was in that thing? Um brass's clovers, uh there's deer radish and and uh turnip for the fall. Yep. Um but that clover was they really hammered it compared to the the other crops. There wasn't a ton of deer there, but um like he didn't do nooses tags or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Um but then another farmer let me let me have another spot and I I did this basically like the same type of uh blend. I um what was one that I was using? It's from a rack stacker. Um Field Edge for the for the falls and then uh walk and toss for the uh for the summer. And uh and the farmer that that farmer was planting peppers. Oh yeah, he found the deer just hammered his green peppers and whatnot. Really? The green peppers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Was he like uh he must have like a produce stand kind of thing? You don't hear of guys planting that much.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Um the deer liked the green peppers. Yeah. Really? Like a lot, like enough to plant your own in a food plot, you think?

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Uh no. Okay. No, no. I've never heard of he he he said that they estimated them. Really? And when I put the food plot in it, they hit the food plot instead.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yeah. You know, I've heard to plant too, somebody was telling me, is uh tomatoes.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Apparently they love tomatoes.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yeah, I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

Um I'm trying to find the holy grail right now of uh what what bears won't eat. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um I I've heard uh I've heard that uh uh fortified cottonseed.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

I can't find it in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

No?

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Fortified cottonseed. Yeah. I'd not I don't think I've heard much about that.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah, I'd like to try I use Rack Stacker Deer Feed and uh Rackstacker is a big supporter of Archer New Brunswick. Um if I could mix in some fortified cottonseed and into the rack stacker mix, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Give the bears an upset stomach and see I find the rack stacker stuff, uh I got some free bags of it and tried it. It is absolutely amazing for coons. Oh yeah. For raccoons, it'll bring them in like you wouldn't believe. It's great for hunting them with halens.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Raccoons love everything.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Um but uh yeah, for the deer, no, the I I didn't have much luck with the deer with it, I just had those free bags, but boy, did it bring it drew in the coons like crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I uh I used to use be beef finisher and then I switched over to the deer feed and and I was telling my neighbor this there.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

I know someone that baits bears with beef finishers. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Yeah, and uh I I decided um I I have a feeder in my in my backyard. Okay, yeah. And uh and that's the deer get the same thing all the way through deer season. I have a stand 400 meters behind the house, and they get the same feed all the way through deer season and into Christmas. Yeah. And uh the uh I tried bee finisher, um, just a bag of it, because stuff's expensive. Yeah, it is and uh the deer weren't going for it. And then and I've never had a problem with deer not coming to bee finisher. Yeah. But as soon as I put that rack sack or deer feed back in, they were hammering it. Oh yeah. That evening. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Do you find like is there there's a lot of places where you can't bait. Do you think that's ever an issue here or not really being able to bait? I mean, with the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation stuff, do you guys have a lot of things?

SPEAKER_00 56:38

With that herb with a herb with our herd winners, I like main supplemental feeds, um, their northern herd.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Do they? But uh, as far as hunting though, baiting is like Um Because you see, I remember you watch Northwoods Law and like if if they go out and find like a handful of corn, they're you know, they're like, Are you are you kidding me here? You know, like they're ready to throw them in jail. It's like holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

But like they allow baiting in in I think Missouri and and Kansas.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

There's a lot of places that they do allow it, yeah. Yeah, taxes, Georgia. It's corn. Everyone's getting corn. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Yeah. Um yeah, I I don't think baiting's a major issue. I used to be dead set against it.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Um but I I don't think it's what changed your mind on it. Um while talking with Rod Cumberland that some good supplemental feeding in certain areas is pretty much puts that little bit of fat on their back to help get them through the winter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

But uh I'd like as far as feeding in town, um, don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

But uh but I uh I have a th I'd like to see a study done on that. Uh what's in the stomach contents of urban deer versus non-urban deer. Because there's some there's something attracting deer to to towns, and it could be safety from predators, but it could be clover and lawns. Who knows? I think it has to do with lawns. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Because you see some people put all this time and money into their lawns, and it'll be December and their lawns just snapping green. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Well, I had I had problems with grubs and I read that you put clover in your uh in your in your seed mix when you're overseeding. Yeah. And and um as soon as I did that, rabbits and deer were all over.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So is there so urban deer, do you think so? I know some places you can get sponsored and you can do some bow hunting in for urban deer. Is that you think gonna become a bigger thing where the suburbs are spreading, the deer population is spreading? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

They literally hunt in people's backyards. It's it's crazy. Um but yeah, there's so many factors like safety-wise and whatnot. Yeah. Um but uh like Quispan Cis, they give out nuisance tags. Yes. Yep. And uh I think St. Stephen they do as well, and St. Andrews and and uh just with the urban sprawl that's happening now.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Okay, and it's bow only, obviously. Yeah. Crossbow?

SPEAKER_00 59:07

Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Because I mean I wonder that with the urban sprawl and with the deer population possibly going up in these areas because they know they're safe, they know there's lots of food, there's no there's probably not really any predators. Do you think that uh you're gonna see more studies done possibly in the States and things like that on urban deer hunting? You think urban deer hunting's just gonna become a bigger thing?

SPEAKER_00 59:30

I don't know. Um I think the the allure of going out and and finding that big buck in the middle of nowhere and Stacey's backyard kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And shooting off a back deck or something.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah, yeah. Um pop up out of their above ground pool and smoke it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

But it it is getting like you see it on hunting shows now, like they're literally in people's like Oh yeah. They're sitting in the tree stand, the kids are playing on the deck.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Like, is it Lee? Something Lee uh I can't remember his name. Anyways, he uh Jeez, I can't remember uh Seek one with Lee Ellis. Okay he's like he's like real big into like the urban deer hunting. I mean deer hunting all over, but the urban deer hunting because yeah, it's just it he's in the States, it's just becoming such a big thing there. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if it'll if it'll kick off here. Um we have so few bow owners.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Yes, that's one of the things.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

So what what's some of the things that your your club offers? And I mean, how important do you think it whether you're New Brunswick or Pennsylvania or Nova Scotia or you know, Detroit, city somewhere, how important it is to support your local clubs like this if you can, if you're into bow hunting stuff that helps it's a voice for you? I mean, I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Well that's the biggest thing. Like our with the from the bow hunting side, um we offer um the memberships thirty dollars. Um you get a package that that uh includes a window sticker. I think I gave you one. Yes, thank you. And uh and that gives you the voice. Um we like we're part of the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation. The New Brunswick Wildlife Federation is part of the decision group that makes decisions on regulation changes. Um it's uh it's a resolution process, is what they do. So, like for example, this year with Archery New Brunswick, we submitted, I think, five resolutions. One is they increase uh deer season for Bo from September 15th to November 30th. Um and another one is to, and again, we we could talk about moose. We have one of the best moose populations in North America.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Really? New Brunswick has one of the best. And uh I know we've got some big ones here.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

Yeah, we have uh our our population density is right there with Newfoundland, uh central Alberta and Yukon.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Um Wow. Our hunter success rate is the highest in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

It is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Seventy-two percent last year.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

You guys non-residency podcast like really? Yeah. Um I didn't notice that I know we've got the moose population seems good here. I mean, you've seen where I'm living. We don't have a ton of moose here. It's just not the area, but we have a few, but there's big ones. I know every year you see a lot of just monsters.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

So we're so we're looking to add uh five days to the current moose season. Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

And because right now it's currently those wondering, it's five days. It used to be three. Yeah. Now it's five. So you guys are looking to add early five. Oh, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

And uh and again, we have the shortest moose season in in or in Canada. Yes, five days. Yeah, we sure do. And uh like Alberta, I think you can bow hunt for moose for like a month.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Or a month and a half. Yeah, I think it's at least a month.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Um but uh there'd be no change to the to the draw system. It would just be if you have a bow license and you did the bow course, you can go for those five extra days.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Because I know a lot of people that will I know a lot of people that want to do bow, but they're and they'll bring it and stuff, but they're so pressured because everyone's got guns around them. It's only five days, it might not get drawn again for a long time. So they're like, I'm gonna bring the rifle.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

I I think I annoy my my neighbor every time I say if I get my moose moose license, I'm taking my bow. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

No, that'd be great. It's only five days, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Um, but yeah, I'll probably take it for the first three.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

But um the uh so yeah, we're not looking to change the draw system as far as harvest. Like the person that's gonna harvest a moose at 20 yards with a bow is gonna harvest one with a rifle the next week. Um so it's not gonna be have any impact on on the number of moose harvested at all. Um, but it gives people an extra five days to get out and get to the camp and have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Um and then another resolution you were talking earlier about uh somebody not being able to draw a bow, the 45 pounds were trying to get that down to 35. Uh Alberta just did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

They did. So they they've thought that 35 pound draw weight is lethal.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

For for deer and bear, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Okay, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

Yeah. And uh when the 45 pound came in c came in, became popular as as the weight is back in the 80s. And again, technology and everything changes. Um, changed. Yeah. Um a 35-pound bow is gonna give the same kinetic energy now that a 45-pound bow back then would. Really? So um, so that will get more youth into bow-hunting, yeah. Uh keep seniors into it longer. And uh hopefully people away from crossbows.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Yeah. And then uh we're looking to get rid of the the need to wear hunters orange to and from the stand outside of uh deer and moose rifle season. Um again, we're one of three uh well, there's three states, there's no other province um that requires wearing uh hunters orange at all during only season for deer. Um so we just want to be in line with everybody else. Yeah. And then uh what else um we put in for the the education program with the uh to pass on yearling bucks.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

Um I think that's it. Yeah. Well, that's quite a bit right there. But I mean, like I said, it doesn't matter what province state you country you're in. If you've got an organ organization like this or anything else like that for hunting, it's good to be a part of it and uh it's helps be your voice. You know, there's there's strength in numbers. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

So so then what how that works is Archery New Brunswick is part of uh of the New Brunswick Wildlife Federation. And um oh yeah, we gotta get into the other benefits of the uh the membership. So you get twenty percent off a gun dealer for anything other than uh firearms, ammunition, or uh firearms parts.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Twenty percent. That takes Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Even with a forty percent discount through the states because of the duties, the taxes, I know Sitka's not as expensive as you think.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

It's when from this US to Canada, there's like a brokerage bullshit fee or whatever that really ramps up the price. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

And then uh we do draws. We've well we're s hoping to still do the draws this year, but last year we did uh draws, two separate draws for Rackstagger products. Uh that's members only, uh no other purchase necessary, just you're a member of the club, you're you get in on the draws. Yep. And then once we get the membership to a certain level, um we want to get into uh Alberta does the game awards. So you different species of different categories. You uh if you harvest them, then you get like certificates. Right. And and then if you harvest so many of all categories, you get what's called a master hunter.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

Yeah, uh there's one this year in Alberta, I think it's Jason Acorn. Uh he got it in Alberta. Yeah, he's got a lot of people. I know Logan Johnson has got TV show the boneyard. Yeah. They do a bell buckle and it's really cool. It's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

And uh and I'd like to get a big big big game contest going.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Um, but we gotta get the membership up. Right. Um it's uh it's too much for one guy to do. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh and then uh so we're part of uh Nebraska Wildlife Federation. The Nebraska Wildlife Federation is comprised of 30 different clubs. So Pedacodiak Fishing Game, Albert County Hunters, Sackville Fishing Game, uh, Frederick Fishing Game, uh, and then all of the province. Um Archery Brunswick's in there, the Nebraska Cure Association's a member. Um and these clubs meet and they go over different uh regulation changes that are being proposed by the government. Government sends them sends us a letter and and we get to go over it and give our feedback. And uh and then at the AGM in uh May, uh all these different clubs can submit resolutions and then we take the resolutions and we vote on them and we debate them and and have a vote, and then whatever passes from that goes to uh the government. But it's really important for um not just to be a member of Archery New Brunswick, but if if you're a bow hunter or you're or a hunter in general, um you want to get involved in these clubs.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Um doesn't matter where you are, it's your voice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

And and these clubs are the backbone of the regulation system. Same with you. UGUMB is is equally as influential as as we are, um, but from the outfitter side, right? Yeah these are the hunters and anglers of of New Brunswick. And uh these clubs are not getting younger any younger. And uh we need young people to join these clubs to keep them going because if that voice goes away, um some rights might you want to bet rights will go away. Yeah. Um we're we're seeing it with firearms, we're seeing it with um the hunting and fishing way of life is being attacked at every corner.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

And uh and we need to maintain these clubs to keep that voice going.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

And there's some that are doing really good, like Sackville Rail Run Club has like, I think, 400 members, and uh Tracky has a big following, and and a couple of the clubs up north have have big memberships. Yeah. But uh like Frederick and Fishing Game, I think we have 40. Okay. Um I know Petakodac has a has a good membership base, but most of them are are there for the uh range. And I I went and sat in at one of their meetings and they had uh I think twenty or thirty people there.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:57

Um not bad for the area.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

Yeah, yeah but uh but like I said, uh it's really important for people to get out and get involved in these clubs because uh it's uh it's how we keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Well, Tracy, on that note, thanks for coming out and hopefully uh this falls on open ears. So and uh in conclusion, join your local clubs, it doesn't matter where you are. Yeah. Because it's it's your voice and it helps helps move things along. So yeah, perfect. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Anytime. Okay, so if you're still listening and you made it this far, uh rating a review on Apple and Spotify would be much appreciated from you.