Ep.111 Bear Charges, Bird Dogs, Traditional Archery, Guiding, Podcasting, And More!

A spring bear bait run can feel routine… until a sow comes in hard and closes the distance to two feet. We’re joined by New Brunswick hunter, guide, and podcaster Wesley Thebeau for a wide-ranging talk that moves from traditional archery fundamentals to the real workload behind running a bear outfitting camp, plus the bird dog obsession that takes over every fall.

Wesley explains how he got hooked on trad bow hunting, why “trad bow close” is a non-negotiable standard for many hunters, and how he sets baits to deliver true 10 to 15 yard shots. We dig into spring bear hunting strategy, tracking decisions, and why spring can outperform fall when natural food is everywhere. Then we get the backstory on March and Milco and how an unexpected partnership forms with NHL star Brad Marchand, including what it’s like to watch a world-class athlete bring that same mindset to archery practice and camp life.

From there we shift into upland hunting in New Brunswick, woodcock migration, thick clearcut cover, and what makes the region a legitimate destination for grouse and woodcock hunters. Wesley talks versatile hunting dogs like the Deutsch Drahthaar, why they demand year-round structure, and how fat biking groomed winter trails keeps both dogs and handlers ready. We round it out with wild game cooking, the carnivore diet discussion, and his push to improve the outdoor industry through United Guides and Outfitters of New Brunswick.

If you enjoy spring bear hunting, traditional archery, bird dogs, woodcock hunting, and honest outfitting stories, hit subscribe, share this with a hunting buddy, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Check us out on Facebook  Hunts On Outfitting, or myself Ken Marr. Reach out and  Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!

Transcript

Welcome, Sponsors, And Guest Preview

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Hunts on the Hunts on Outfitting Podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, Ken Meyer. I love everything hunting, the outdoors, and all things associated with it. From stories to how-tos, you'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. All right, thanks for tuning in to this week's podcast. Welcome and welcome back. So, this one, I've got a great one as usual for you in studio. With me, I was able to have Wesley Tebow. We talk about how he got into hunting, traditional archery shooting, bear hunting, co-owning a bear outfitting camp with an NHL starter that specializes in traditional archery shooters, having a close call with a mad bear, upland hunting grouse and woodcock, fat bikes, wild game cooking, working dogs, and lots more. It'd be shorter to tell you what we didn't talk about. We covered all kinds of things. You guys are really going to enjoy this conversation. Also, I want to talk about this new company. I just ordered some broadheads from them. I'm fired up and excited to try them out this spring bear season. Hooligan Archery Products, Canadian-owned, veteran-owned, and operated. This guy has, if you go on their website, Hooligan Archery Products, they are great. They've got mechanical broadheads, fixed broadheads, different configurations. And he's got on their Facebook page, they show all the tests that they do with them and how these broadheads stand up to take a beating. Whether you're going to be after Bear this spring or turkey, look them up, try them out. Also, GK Calls, GK World Championship Calls. I'm happy and uh very appreciative to be on with them as pro staff member. And if you guys are looking to get any duck or goose and now some turkey calls, uh let me know. Get get a hold of me, contact me, check them out online, GK World Championship Calls. And you know, Wesley and I, you're gonna hear later on in this podcast how we absolutely love our dogs and working with them and hunting with them and how dear they are to our hearts and just being out with them is what it's all about for us in in outside. And him and I both feed Nookshook dog food. Why? Because we want our best friends to have the best. And um it shows and the dogs, their their look, their performance, and just the ability to get the job done anytime we take them out, they're always ready to go. From sleek coats, nice teeth, and just endurance. A Nookshook dog food helps them stay like that, maintain it, and perform. Oh, and if you were looking to get a hold of us to maybe come on the podcast or suggest somebody for it, or just reach out to me, you can email me, hunts on outfitting at gmail.com, or you can find us on Facebook, Hunts on Outfitting, or find myself on there, Ken Meyer. Feel free to reach out. Some of you guys have been, it's been great talking with you from all over. So, you know, now more often than not, when I do have a guest on the podcast, I have a certain direction that I'm going in. I have a certain topic story to do, but with you, Wesley, uh, I don't. Um so before we get going though, and get talking for about an hour, uh, what better place to start? There's a lot of things to cover, but getting to know you first. A little background on you, where you're from, how long you've been hunting, and and I got all kinds of questions after that.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

That's good. Yeah. I like to answer questions. I think we've been talking for about an hour already. Before we even turn the mics on. No, my name's Wesley Tebow. I grew up in New Brunswick, uh born in Springfield, a small town, not the one here, but the one up there. Yeah. And I've been hunting, and I mean dad drugged me out when basically when I was a baby, started out hunting with him, and that's what really lit the fire for me as a youngster. And as a teenager, I hunted and I enjoyed it, but obviously there's other things you like when you're a teenager. And then it was when I I got married, settled down in my early twenties, and I got my first dog, a chocolate lab Cooper. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's when hunting for me. I I dabbled around trying to deer hunt, and I suck at deer hunting. Yeah. Don't have the attention span for it. But it was uh when I got my first dog Cooper, chocolate lab, that's when it was like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

That I really love.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

So you did you buy the dog trained or you trained?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Nope, he was a puppy. Yeah. I trained him, I guess you'd call it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was he was what they like to call a meat dog. He was trained, but not like well trained. I didn't have a clue what I was doing. But I mean, we hunted grouse, and then I started up land or uh started waterfowl hunting back in that that area. That's when I about when I met Matt and get into the waterfowl pretty so you've been podcasting for a while. Yeah, I think we started Waterfowl East Podcast in 2021.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Okay. Yeah. And then you've done that, and then you've got your Northeast Northeast Upland, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

So Matt, he's he's waterfowl east all on his own now.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

And I jumped into the upland. What got you guys wanting to start a podcast? Because even in 21, uh podcasts were still, I mean, they're kind of newish then to honestly, man.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

It's just we like to get together and shoot the shit with the boys, and we we both started listening on podcasts and really liked it. And just decided it was just one more feather in the hat. We might as well add to the waterfowl east that's kind of spectrum, right? And that's why I podcast right now. Like Northeast Upland podcasts. That's there's no intentions to get rich or make money or doing it. I just do it because literally because I enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it does go somewhere, great. If it doesn't, I still like doing it. That's why I do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

It's just I like seeing like the reach that you get, and then you know the people you get connected with and things like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Oh yeah. It's just fun to talk to people. It is, yeah. Like I love it. I love to shoot the shit.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So yeah, you guys been doing it yeah for a little bit then, lots of episodes. And then you had a mountain biking one.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, mountain biking action podcast. We did that. All kinds of Darren and Becky, they bought a store and that kind of fizzled out. Just owning and operating stores a lot of work.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Especially, I mean, I I've always hats off to these podcasts that have like, you know, their crew of people on and stuff, because I find it I have my friends come out when they can and everything, but as far as like if I had a steady co-host or something, I mean, it's hard to line everything up. People life, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

People don't realize how much work it is.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah.

Why Podcasting Became A Passion

SPEAKER_00 7:06

And scheduling. And then to get a podcast that actually sounds good. Yep. I mean, when you think about it, I mean you gotta be you gotta be doing a lot of shit to have something to talk about once a week or every other week. Yeah. Or you gotta be on the phone or emails or messaging people to try to do it. It's a part-time job or some people full-time, but yeah. It's a full-time job on top of a full-time job.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

That's why I do it just for fun. It's not as time consuming.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah, it's exactly for me. Um so then so you've been you've been hunting a while, you got more serious into it when you got the dog. Yeah. Um I want to I'm interested to hear more because I know a bit about it, while you guys on Facebook with it and everything, the March and Milco outfitting. Where, before we get into how all that started, how did you get into guiding yourself? Because you didn't start with them, did you? Or did you? No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

So I started guiding. I never grew up around guiding or outfitting at all in my life. Yeah. Actually, uh, the guy we were talking about, Tony from Squat Pan Mountain Outfitters. Yeah, I got into traditional archery back in the like probably 2005-ish. Did you shoot compound? Never. No. You went straight. So another thing, Matt and his brother both bought compound bows. Yep. And I went to the bow club, they were shooting them and sighting them in, and they had these little kids' bows that were like long bows. Yeah. And I just picked up there's some arrows in those, so I just picked it up and just started shooting that.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And uh the local archery shop we had at the time in Woodstock, Glenn Martin operated it. He had a he had a freaking long bow in there. Yeah. And the funny story is it was a 70-pound Howard Hill Wesley Special longbow.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

And so it's quite a beast.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

People that aren't familiar with long traditional archery, yeah, 70 pounds is a lot very heavy. Yeah. Because there's no lid off.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Even on compound. It's uh, you know, so mine's 65. Remember pulling it back the first time, it's like, I don't think I use these muscles a lot because it's yeah, it's weird, right? It's a weird muscle. So I can't, I've never tried the traditional. All I know about it is that I I heard that you know, you can take out your compound, practice here and there, yeah, you're pretty much good to go. With I heard with the traditional, you've got to stay really consistent. You've got to shoot. I mean, you do with the compound, but not nearly as much as with traditional.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I bought that bow and I knew nothing about it. And then I and Tony, he's a traditional bow hunter, and that's who he caters to in his outfitting business.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

And I met him, or I don't know if I saw him online or something like that. Oh, excuse me. And uh anyway, ended up going over to his place. He's an outfitter, guides for bear and stuff, and he's we just he showed me how to shoot, and he's like, Man, he's like, that bow is insane. You're nuts for shooting a yeah. I shot 3D tournaments with it, and oh yeah, I didn't know anything about it. But luckily I'm a big enough guy I could actually draw it and found out that 50 pounds is actually adequate.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

How is it? So when you're pulling those back, you don't have a release, right? You it's your fingers.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

It's it's never like it's all instinctive.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

You just is it hard to not take your fingers right out? Like when you let go, do you ever get a little burn on them?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

No, you wear a glove. Okay, yeah. Or tab, it's a leather tab that goes on your fingers. I personally wear a glove. Yeah. So it it protects your fingers.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

So you don't have any flash with flash too, or whatever you want to call it, but okay. Because I think, you know, sometimes just pulling back on my 65-pound compound with the release and letting it go. Yeah, I couldn't imagine doing it with my fingers.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

No, it's uh it's a huge learning curve. But I mean I got obsessed with it. It just man, it is so cool to see these feathered arrows just fly right where your eyeball's looking. Yeah. Just I got addicted to it, started shooting 3D all the time, shot a bunch of tournaments, won provincials, and I actually haven't shot though in years now. Yeah. It just there's no opportunity up here. Yeah. I mean, you can hunt bear in the spring, but I'm guiding. Right. And in the fall, I mean deer hunting. I have no desire to.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, so then how did you how did you get in what was your first guiding thing?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Or what so I went over to Tony's and I met him, and that was through traditional archery. And then I was over at Bear Camp when he had people there. And I mean, I was a bear hunter myself at the time, and I had some of his clients they were asking me about bear hunting, because we have a spring season in New Brunswick and they don't. And he's yeah, he's in Maine. Yeah, he's in Maine, so it's fall only. And uh anyway, it started off with Tony and one of his friends came over to hunt with me in the spring just for free, just as fun and stuff like that. And they're like, holy crap, man, like you gotta sell hunts. He's like, This is insane. Like you guys like spring, spring bear hunting, there's no comparison compared to fall.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Uh yeah, I've never done it in the fall, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

It's it's a oh man, it's a waste. I mean, I it's bad. I'm an outfitter, I say it, but it's a waste of time compared to spring. Just there's there's so much more food in the fall, and people are eating. Especially up home. We've got tens of thousands of acres of corn and grain. Plus every frigging fence line is full of apple trees and berries and raspberries, and spring they come out of the den, there's nothing to eat hardly. I mean, plowed up cornfields and crap like that, and then bear bait. Bit of grass, yeah. Grass.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

But so they they were my first people that came hunting with me.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Kind of got the wheels changed.

Falling For Traditional Archery

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah. And then I started I guided for a long time uh without a camp or an outfitting business anyway, and for years. And I would guide for two weeks in the spring. I'd bring anywheres from six to twelve people.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Oh, really? So where did you put them up in like a local motion?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

They would stay at hotels and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

And how did you advertise? No, just boarding it.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

It was just connection with the uh tradbow community. Oh, yes. That's who Tony guided mostly was tradbow guys because there's there's there's compound close and then there's tradbow close. Right. Not most outfitters don't know what trad bow close is. So how close? 10 yards, 15. All my baits are maximum 15 yards. Really? Most of them are 10, 12. You're right on top of that. Yeah. Because I mean, a lot of these guys will pay to go on a hunt. It's like I shoot a traditional bow, I need to be oh yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem. They'll get there and they'll put them in a stand for 25, 30 yards. Yeah. And to them that's close. It's like, yeah, man, this is like twice as far as I need to be. Well, uh, like we can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah. So you specializing in that, the word we get it, like, hey, there's this fellow up in Canada in New Brunswick, that he can cater to us. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

And that's where that's where it started, and word of mouth just spread, and and I'm still most of my clientele is still traditional bowers.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah. So then how did it so explain to me with the March and Milco, because there's some people that don't know it's owned partially by Brad Marshaw, the hockey player. And um so yeah, how did you think so?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

That came through work through my day job. I do custom glass shower door installs. Yep. His family owns a big construction company in Halifax. Oh, okay. And I did installs for him, worked for his family for quite a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

He looks like his dad. You see it when it on TV, like at a game or whatever, you like I've shown his dad before I'm like, holy crap, it looks like him. Yeah. I remember when Brad used to play for the uh the local Moncton Wildcats, and he stuck out because he had a big nose on him, and he's pretty short.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

He's a unique looking man, he's tiny, he's a small little fella.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

But I mean, he's a damn good hockey player.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah, he's not bad.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

He makes two. Yeah. But I met so I found I worked for them for years, and then I was just having a conversation with one of their project managers, which is a family member, like a cousin of his, and I found out that they hunt. I'm like, what the frig? Like they see all seem like a bunch of city boys to me. I didn't know they hunted. And anyway, found out that they don't just hunt like they're like avid hardcore hunters.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Really?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yes. Yeah, I think they own multiple places in Newfoundland. I heard of that, yeah. A ranch in Colorado. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, they hunt like big time. Huh. Big time. So that happened, and I just started talking about bear hunting. They wanted to because they don't have a spring season in Nova Scotia either. Anyway, so they come up bear hunting. It was Brad, his brother, his father, and a couple of their cousins come up.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Were you feeling the pressure? Because was Brad a big kind of celebrity then? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Brad's a bad that was, I don't know, it's been five or six years. Oh, yeah. I mean, he was a big deal. Yeah. I knew who he was. I don't really follow hockey much. Yeah. I knew who he was, and I'm just like, but I knew his reputation on the ice. Yeah. So I'm like, man, I hope this guy's gonna be a good one. I hope he doesn't lick me. Yeah, I hope he's not a complete asshole anyway. And uh no man, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that he is the most normal down-to-earth guy you could ever know.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah, he did have a reputation, especially five years ago then on the ice. Well, he licked that guy, you know, this and that. He was dirty, yeah, rootable shit. So yeah, I guess him coming down with if I was you might be thinking that too, like, what is he gonna do? But he's good. It's a little that's his job.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

That's how he made everyone knows him. That's how he made his name in the NHL, man. He's an agitator. Yeah. It's a and he's a good points getter too. Yeah, yeah. Like a lot of people don't realize too that he uh he was only drafted like 72nd. Yeah. Most people drafted 72nd aren't even making a career.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

No, and he just got uh what was it, his thousand point?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, he went from being drafted 72nd to one of the best players in the game. Like he's one of the one of the greats. Yeah, like uh is his brother. His brothers play they're gonna you know what, man? That's another thing I've learned being able to hang out with Brad over the years is there's a lot of people with as much talent or way more talent, they don't have the mentality. Right. Man, his mentality at that level for any athlete, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:52

It's gotta be it to mention.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

I mean I've never hung out with anybody that's on that level before, other than him. And holy shit, man, his mentality is on like a hundred times.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Like a Tom Brady sort of thing, because he's at yeah, you know, he's he's all he's a high, high performing NHL athlete. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

And that's the difference, man. I mean, like I said, if you're drafted 77, I mean he's a good athlete. There's no question. Anybody in any professional sport is a very good athlete, but there's other people that never made a living at it that are probably way better than him at that sport, but they don't have the head on their shoulders. That's literally the difference maker in Brad and other people that don't make it. He's just man, his mentality is crazy. Like and the re one of the things he came up bear hunting one time with me, and we actually used to hunt some mornings, and we we snuck in to the bait on a bear and he shot a bear in the morning, and he he thought he missed because we never found the freaking thing. He thought so he thought he missed, sat and hunted until like 10 o'clock, never saw anything. Came back, that man shot his bow the entire time. From the time we got back to the camp to the time we left to go on the evening hunt. Hours, hours, man. He shot the entire time, never even stopped for lunch. I think somebody might have brought him out a bite of food or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

That's interesting because you hear about guys at that level, like basketball players and things like that that they're gonna be. But that's the guy from Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

He literally never stopped shooting for oh, it was what, 10 o'clock, 11, 12, 1, 2, 3, for five, six hours straight.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

You got to realize then I know why this guy's in the NHL.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah, this is why this is the difference, man. And the amount of sacrifices he's made to get where he's at, the amount of family functions and events and birthdays and stuff that he's sacrificed and missed because he had to go do that practice, or he had to go work out, or he had to go do whatever. That's the difference, man. And that's all up here. Right. That was and it's been really cool to see.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

That's neat. Yeah, so I obviously the first time them coming down then went well, but you're feeling like a little bit of pressure, I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

I mean, and I mean you always feel pressure. I mean, anytime someone's giving you money to go hunting, you you want to want to be successful.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

I think I'll put I want it more than they do. I realize sometimes too. Like I'm like, oh man, I really want to you realize that they're along for the ride, they have good time, what happens happens. But I know I kind of get that in my head, like really want it for them. But um yeah, so that went well.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

And then Yeah, they come up for a couple years or three years or something like that. And then one winter, Brad's just like, you want to buy an outfit in business in February or something like that. I'm like, Yep. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, yeah. So we found uh Alton Morrison, Deerville Camps. I went and met with him. He was getting older, uh actually way old. He was in his eighties. Okay. And uh just sat down and you told him, like, buddy, you don't got much time left.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Let's work out a deal.

Spring Bear Guiding For Traditional Bows

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, well, I just in a random way. Asked him, I said, Are you interested in selling? I said, I've been guiding for years at that time, and uh I would like to take a step up and become an outfitter, and it's easier to buy an outfit that already has an allocation of bear tags than to try to get your own.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

So yeah, we bought that together and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

That's cool. Yeah, I've always wondered that how that how it worked, and yeah, because I see the pictures and everything, I knew that Brad was part of it, but I didn't know exactly how.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah, and I mean I know I told him from the beginning, I said, listen, man, I said there's not gonna be any money in this for you, but you'll always have a place to come and hunt with your family every spring. Um if you want to go on a moose hunt, if you want to swap hunts, like if you want to say somebody like that's a thing. A lot of people, like to us, it's just a freaking bear hunt. But if you live in a place that doesn't have spring bear hunts, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Well, it's like me, I paid to go on a hog hunt in Florida. And down there, but you want to go, it's just a peg, right? Why would you do that? To us, it's real cool. It's super cool.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah, yeah. People it's like it's like talking to Brad about going to Newfoundland. Oh, yeah, you have to come up and shoot a moose and a caribou. It's like, can I bring my dogs? Thermigan hunting? Like, what? Yeah, yeah. That would be cool doing it. For me, I just I want to chase my bird dogs.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that's cool. So yeah, uh so then the you you're busy with that, the spring bear hunting. You you cater to traditional bow hunters.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

That's my most of my clientels. Most of them are bow guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

So not many, you don't have hardly any rifle.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Uh like one. Really? And wow. I've been guiding since 2008. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Well, no, three maybe.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

But wow. That's yeah, that's neat. That's your guys' specialty. So uh compared to compound, do you find them just as deadly in the right hands?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, because if you're if you're shooting a trad bow, you're obviously a dedicated hardcore hunter. Like these tradbow guys are the most hardcore excellent boardsmen ever. Another level.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Okay. These guys are like the elite athletes in the hunting industry. But it's so funny, they're all so friggin' humble and just kind and good natured. They never brag. Like, man, I got one guy, Bill Terry, he's been coming with me since like 2018. He's 83 or 84 or 85 years old. He's a he's a marine. He's had like five knee replacements. The guy has killed more shit than the plague. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And all with a trad bow. Really? Like these guys are hardcore, man.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

I wondered that when I was going to ask you about the level of clients, because here, I mean, a lot of bear cans, it's their first big game animal or first animal maybe in general. But were you you're catering to the traditional bow hunter specifically that you would your clients you know you're not getting any newbies, right? Oh yeah, no. Like these guys are saying another level. Very few. That'd be that'd be I think that'd make it a lot more not that it's not enjoyable to have somebody on their first bear hunt, but just with your guys, you don't gotta worry about them doing omelets.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Oh, you don't have to worry about shit with these guys. I mean, these these guys are these guys are in camp or teaching me.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I mean these guys are unbelievable woodsmen. Yeah. And I mean they've hunted all over the world, from Africa to Alaska. Wow. They've shot everything, and they do it with a friggin' trad bow, man. Like the hardest way you can hunt, other than maybe an adult, or go knife in something. Yeah. Like it's they're they're all unbelievable woodsmen.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

So give me the setup on a traditional see you said roughly 70 pound draw weight. Uh that that's pretty extreme.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Most most guys are shooting 50 to 60 on the heavy side. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

And then what are your arrows, broadheads looking like? Like they're not interchangeable, the broadheads, are they like your tr compound?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Things sort of are, but most guys are shooting fixed blade, either two or three blade. I prefer a three blade. I shoot a VPA three blade. Okay. And I just like that. It creates a better wound channel, in my opinion, allows big fat bears to bleed better. And I mean most guys are getting pretty they're getting f into the technology. They're shooting carbon arrows and stuff like that. Some guys even have trad bows with carbon limbs. Oh yeah. Stuff like that. I mean, there's some old school guys that shoot wood arrows with glue on the bottom. That's kind of what I think of. There's guys, there's actually guys that shoot uh homemade bows, self bows.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

So what they take it's not an alder branch, but what do they use? They use ironwood, like uh horn beam. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Uh that'd be like your southern state. Osage would it? Well, we do have some. We have some horn beam here. Okay. It's super, super dense. Yeah, it's tired wood. Yeah. And like I think Osage is another popular one they'll use, and they'll make their own self boat out of a damn tree. That's neat. They'll use their own wood arrows and glue-on broadheads. And some of them even use uh like they'll use like a flint broadhead. Really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

And it works. That'll take down the big bears. It'll work, yeah. Yeah. So what's it like? Um, because in you know, here in Canada, New Brunswick especially, we cannot the guides can't carry a sidearm. We're working on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

You go NB.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah. It's um yeah, it'd be an uphill battle with who's in charge of the country. But so what's it like with those guys going in? They've just got that traditional bow because I mean I'm that you guys are tracking a bit.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

That's all they've got there. And I mean it's I've like I said, I've hunted bears for twenty-five years, and I mean, when you're around tons of them every year, you just get kind of numb to the danger, I guess. I mean, I'll track a bear at night. If they feel it's a good shot, I'll we'll go in at night with nothing but their bow. Right. And so far, everything so far, so good. Yeah. Like I said, this spring baiting was that crazy Yeah, if you want to tell that story on here. Yeah. So that was that was definitely a uh that was a big eye opener for me. Like I said, you get desensitized to the danger of a bear, and I mean 99.9% of the time you're you're you're totally good. I mean, you gotta be smart.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

I mean with blackberries.

How An NHL Star Joined Camp

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, with blackberries. You gotta be smart. I mean, if you see a sow with cubs, I mean back out cautiously. I've had that happen like probably a hundred times. A sow with little cubs, she'll treat the cubs and she'll stand her ground and be nervous, and you just back out slow and just all is well. This time I was I was baiting, and I always take my dogs with me just because they need to run. Yeah. And anyway, I'm on a little teeny old uh Yamaha Kodiak four-wheeler. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just putting down the trail, pulling a sled full of bait, going to the bait, and my dogs are coming 50 yards in the woods, coming 90 degrees to the trail that I'm running down, and they got a bear chasing them, which is no big deal. That's happened plenty of times. And uh they hit the trail and they come to me, my dogs run right straight to me, and then just stand there and start barking. The bear hits the trail that I'm in the direction I'm headed and starts running towards me, and I'm just like, oh yeah, I wonder how long I shut the four-wheeler off. I'm like, Oh, wonder how far before she sees me in the wheeler and turns and runs away. Right. Anyway, it was about 15 yards before she turned off, which is fine. That didn't I wasn't worried at that point, that didn't even bother me. Anyway, and she turned off to my right, and then I get off the four-wheeler and was like, just calling the dogs in. Yeah. Come on, you can't take her. Anyway, and she only went in about 20 yards to my right, and then she turns and comes right at me. And that's when I'm like, okay. Oh, this is new. This is I'm standing behind the four-wheeler, like behind it, and I get a big bag of cheesies on the back, and I mean, that's when I start making noise and start hollering at the bear. Like, I'm okay, this is no joke now. So I'm just pounding my hand on this big cheesy bag, just slapping it and just hollering like hell at her. So bad, Boog, my oldest dog, he's like sitting there cowering because I'm like wonder if he didn't. I'm like big dog hollering. Yeah. Anyway, she came running right at me and literally turned. She was two feet away from my feet. Two feet. I was ready to dive behind the floor.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Push the bike in the room.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

I was literally at the last, I was ready to just literally dive out of the way. And I've been bluff charged over a hundred times. Like, I mean, you'll they'll be clicking their jaws and huffing and slapping trees and slapping the ground and run at you, but you can tell that that's just a show. You know it's just a bluff charge. This bear, from the moment I saw her to the moment she turned away, had the same open-mouthed pant, never made a peep, just staring right into my soul, running right out. This was totally different. Yeah. And I mean, the only thing that saved me from getting perforated was just because I stood my ground and she legit just checking out by a bloody miracle man. Right. And anyway, she turned and ran down the trail 50 yards, then stood up on her hind feet, and I had dug my phone out, and I got a video of her standing up. Yeah. And then anyway, I'm like, okay, this is it, it's over. And I'm just like, holy rig, that was crazy. Like, that was the scariest moment because I could tell I've been around enough bears, I could tell by looking at her that okay, this is not a bluff charge. This is a legit charge. This was for real. And anyway, and then all of a sudden the video cuts off, and I'm like slamming my phone into my pocket because she starts coming back. Anyway, she came back to that 20 yards away in the woods and standing there with her paws up on a tree, big maple tree looking over at me. And that's when I got on the four-wheeler and I started heading into the bait, which she pursued us. Anyway, so we she pursued us into the bait, and I'm like, I had unhooked the sled because where I was, I had a big black jet sled with uh just a ratchet strap strap, yep, holding on. I had unhooked that where the encounter was. She was she was standing 20 yards away looking at me with her paws up on the tree, and I was squatted down, unscrewing that, staring at her, getting the sled unhooked, and then I jumped on the wheeler, and I just had one bag of cheesies, and I drove it into the bait, dumped it, and I'm watching her the whole time, followed us into the bait, and you can see I posted a little short clip on the trail cam. You can hear me hollering at her. Like, go on, get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Did you do you think did you run into her again?

SPEAKER_00 30:29

No, she never ever showed up on camera again. She had cubs somewhere there, yeah. But I mean, I scared the life out of her, thank goodness, and she did the same to me. Yeah, yeah. Like, man, what a panty that was. So she she left the area you figure out. She she disappeared, yeah. She was gone. That friggin' poor thing scared the hell out of her. Someone else's problem. Pooh, mother. But yeah. And then anyway, I just friggin' I I managed to get the bait site baited with that one bag. Yeah. And then I I pulled back up. She did eventually I stood there and was hollering at her, like being aggressive still and keeping my dogs at heel. And uh she eventually just walked off to the right out of my sight, and I just drove up like my head's on a swivel looking around. Got to the jet sled, literally ripped the I had two more bags in the jet sled, literally grabbed them, ripped them open with my hands, dumped them on the ground on the trail, looking, grabbed the bags, grabbed the jet sled just in my hand with a strap, jumped on the wheeler and like took off. Get out of there. Oh yeah, I left the bait right on the trail. Yeah. But it like I said, it was just I I've been bear hunting for over 25 years, I've been bluff charged a hundred times. Nut doesn't scare me one bit. Like I've climbed down at a tree stand, I had two bears over 200 pounds sitting 10 yards away, climb down the tree stand ladder with my back to them, and I've just got a recurve in my hand, turned around, and they're still standing there. I'm like, huh, you're still standing there. Yeah. So I just turned to walk away to go back at the truck I was done hunting, and then I hear them take off. So I was like, right! I hollered because I was oh sh. I didn't know if they were coming or going. They were going. You'd hear running. Yeah, they were going. I've been walking out. I was, man, I was just I liked the rush of it. I was stupid when I was younger. I'd finish up a bear hunt. If it was a moonlit night, I'd sneak out of my I'm I'm only gonna recurve, no gun. Like not even a compound bow. And I would just walk out in the dark, no light, just using moonlight. I had a dr I had a bear tree right at my feet, like five feet away. Couldn't even see it. If we were just walking down the wood, I was walking out, I could see the trail outlined by the trees that I followed. It was an old, old plantation. The trees were in a row. He was walking into the bait and I was walking out. You can it just treed right in front of me. It woofed and barked and hollered and went up the tree.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

And went because you can when they start getting close, sometimes I find the bear you can smell them a little, that musky bit of smell.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

But when you're at a bear bait, it all smells like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

The whole area smells like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I don't know what it was doing if it just wasn't paying attention or couldn't see me or what. I mean you're dressed in camels. Wasn't expecting it. And it's all mossy ground, and he's just walking out. But I mean that didn't scare me as bad as this sow that's mother. Like that was legit.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, that'll keep you feeling alive. Oh man, I love that rash. How many how big of an area roughly are you doing and how many baits are you guys running?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I'm running 50-ish baits. It depends on how many hunters are coming. Up up to 50. Yeah, that's a lot. And I mean I'm covering Carleton County, zone 10, zone 16. So I'm I'm running a fairly decent word.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

See, you're busy. Very busy with that. So then uh this brings me to my next question, talking about you got into you had your lab early in your earlier years, then you got into your versatile.

Two Foot Bear Charge Story

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah, so Cooper. I mean, we had a good run with him. He lived to be eleven or twelve, and we had fun chasing grouse, and I ju had just started waterfowl hunting, ran him a little bit on that, but not so much. Uh he was a good combination of a pet and hunting dog. And then I just started looking into other dogs when he had passed. And I actually Googled and found a Deutsch Drathar. And I'm like, what the frick is this thing? And I started reading about it, and I kept reading about how this is the hard, hardest core hunting dog you could buy, they can point, they can blood track, they can retrieve and do it. I'm like, huh, that's interesting. So I just started doing a little bit of it. It piqued my interest. So I started doing a little research on it and reached out to some people in the field in the world and talking to them. And I mean I I'm I mean I live to be in the woods 24-7. And that's one thing. Like to buy them, buy one, you've got to have basically a proof of hunting that you hunt not just a little bit, but a lot. Like these dogs are a 365-day year commitment. And anyway, it just looked like something that I wanted to try because I wanted to get a dog that would point grouse. I I mean hunting them with a flusher is not bad, but it's it's rough. It's not great. Yeah, I don't have much experience with that, but it's a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah. And anyway, yeah, I got into that and got my first one, Jace, and never looked back, and I still love the breed. They're friggin' awesome.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

So cause that you got into that and you do all this bear baiting and guiding, and that takes a lot of effort and energy and time, obviously. And then you get into this, but then you got into the woodcock guiding. And would you say that new I I haven't really done it, but would you say that New Brunswick is one of the premier destinations for woodcock hunting areas of the It's absolutely world-class for ghost and woodcock. Yeah. Like it's So then you started guiding that. You even were able to guide you guys had a TV show down, Canda and the Rough. Yep. A lot of fun. How hard is it to try to film little tiny woodcock flushing and taking off and getting the I mean, you aren't filming it, but they Oh that and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Like they had never filmed that before. And that's why they wanted to add a bear hunt in there, which I didn't. I I wanted them to come just for Upland, but they just they'd never done it before, just Woodcock and Gross. And you were the first foot candidate in the rough. Well, that's what they said anyway. Yeah, because they've been at it a long time. Because they were like, How are we gonna f I mean they got big ass cameras, they got backpacks and gear, and it's like Hope you guys are good. Yeah, I mean, it's like, no, we can do it, boys. It's like the dogs are gonna be on point. So you're gonna have time. And I'll tell you what, it's a good thing we had time because man, to set up the shot and they got some crazy It's not like sitting at a tree standard just zoom in and out, you know, no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

You're in and how where so those listening that may not know, woodcock are in thickness.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Oh, yeah, it's super thick brush. Clear cuts like eight to fifteen years old, twenty years old. You barely see your hand. Super high stem density, like it's hard, hard to get and the grocer in there too. Right. And it's just it's thick.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

So how yeah, walk me through well, walk us through, I guess, uh uh how the hunt works, people that don't know about the woodcock hunting, and what what is the alert to it you think that people come from all over the US and Canada and Europe to hunt woodcock? I think for a lot of them it's just it's like me.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

I mean, it's about the dogs and that they just love to see the dogs work. It's like I always tell people, it's just a crazy thing, man, to hit a clear cut. Your dog's running wide open, bells going, and then all of a sudden it just goes silent. Your dog stands there long enough for you to walk your stupid ass in there with a shotgun and kick a bird up and shoot it. Like I mean, it's just what what other type of hunting can you do? Anything remotely like that?

SPEAKER_02 37:42

And then the woodcock, too. I mean, not a lot of area. What areas actually hold woodcock?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

So they're heavy east coast, they do get somewhat west.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Because they're a migratory bird.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah, they're a migratory bird. I mean, they do get as far west as like central North America, but not in very big numbers.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Like the most like in the US, is there any higher concentrations of them there for hunting or not?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Not like we have no okay I mean so last year was the first year I really pursued woodcock because I've just been a gross hunter, but our gross numbers are dropping, and I know we have good woodcock numbers, and it was the first time I really pursued them. So I talked to guys like Kyle Price and Robert Little and just picked their brains because they've done it.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

But do it a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

And uh man, we for a three-week period we moved on a b on a low day, 45, on a high day, 75 birds. Wow. Like it was nuts. That's crazy. And you're only talking about hunting two to three hours in the morning, two to three hours in the afternoon. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

So the numbers are very oh man, we're gonna do that. Here in my area, I don't I don't see anything near like that. I don't hunt them, I guess, but just being out in the woods, I'll I will see them, especially in the spring.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Bring out a dog in October and you might see something.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

So how I guess compare the two, because most people listening they probably know, but the difference between a woodcock and a graft grouse, spruce grouse.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

So the the difference in the birds? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

I mean size.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Grouse are probably tw about twice the size of a woodcock. I was gonna say at least. Yeah, at least maybe three times bigger. I mean they live here. They don't migrate. Woodcock migrate, grouse eat plant material, stuff like that. Woodcock primarily eat worms and bugs. Is that that long beak? Yeah, that's what the long beak is for. So they need soft soil, and that's kind of what you definitely target to get after them is areas of summer soil. I find that yeah, wet, wet, swampy stuff. How how heavy are they?

SPEAKER_02 39:42

The woodcocks. Oh, fragile. I've never weighed one, but they're teeny. Like they're not they're not a pound for sure. Oh, fragile. You'd weigh those in ounces. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Like their whole breast is between the size of a golf ball and a big one. A huge one would be like a tennis ball.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

And and the females are the biggest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

They're bigger than the biggest. So then how well do they hold compared to grouse?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

So Woodcock are they hold awesome. And they're that's why a lot of people like them. They do they're a super good bird. They hold really tight. Good for training dogs. Awesome for working your dog. And there's just so many of them. And they're a little bit easier to shoot. Like a rough grouse is their nickname is the king of all game birds because they're out of all the upland species in North America, they're the hardest to to kill. Um they're hard on dogs.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Camouflage both species, the woodcock and the grounds.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

They're well camouflaged and they're just grouse, are just so hard to kill. They'll run on a dog, they fly crazy erratically, and just they're really hard to shoot and get pinned down on a point, really.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Just to stay still? Because I find when I've flushed grouse, people are like, oh, they kind of go in a circle. I have a damn hard time finding them after they flush, but with the woodcock, I've seen it, they kind of go up and down. Sometimes they're and I find they they seem a little easier spot.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Typically, migrating birds will do that. Up and down? Yeah, they'll just pop up and down. And if you get a bird that picks up and just flies away, it's probably a local bird.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Oh, okay. That's interesting. Yeah. They know the area. Yeah. So what was it like when you did have Canada and they're off the TV show down and like the learning curve for them of like trying to film it? Did they get the hands?

Running Fifty Baits Across Zones

SPEAKER_00 41:25

It was good. I mean, like I said, I've done this long enough. You could kind of position the guys. I could tell them exactly what they needed to know, and I gave them enough confidence that they were going to be okay. And the bear hunt backup was a bonus too. So it they they were confident they could get it. I mean, it was hard because like I said, you still got to tramp through the woods, but I mean they they had a great hunt.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

And once they flush, though, I mean you're aiming for something the size of tennis ball. A tennis ball, barely. And they they go quick and it's so thick. They are quick, yeah. So what kind what kind of guns do you recommend? Is 12 gauge just too big?

SPEAKER_00 42:01

I mean, you can shoot a 12 gauge. It's more it's more the distance of the bird away from you than anything. Like I shoot a 28 gauge for gross and woodcock. Cylinder choke, I use seven and a half shot.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

And I mean you you gotta let the bird get out there some. Yeah. Even with my 28 gauge, I've shot a gross just instinctively that was too close and and there was not an edible part on it. Oh, yeah. With a 28 gauge. So 12 gauge would be even worse. Yeah, yeah. You just gotta try to talk yourself into letting it fly out there a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

So have you taken guys, many people out, guys and gals out that have never done it before? Yeah, I actually. What do they think? Do they have a hard time hitting? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Okay. I had a couple up from uh Boston last fall, and they'd never done it before. I mean they did shoot a few birds, but I mean they had a great time. Put them on a crap ton of birds, like hundreds. Yeah. And I mean they hit a few. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Were they were they surprised at how quick they are?

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

They were.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah. And they thought it was impossible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

It looks like we hunted with it. I shot one once. I remember I was out and I knew the spot where there was some, and uh one flew up, shot it, saw it go down. It was in this old uh clear cut. And I looked for probably two hours. Not maybe not clearly. I couldn't find it for the life of me. I was like, I'm not doing this again unless I have a dog. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. And it was so thick too. This I how old was this clear cut? Maybe it was oh seven years old. Yeah. Maybe and everything was just thick, thick as can be. And I'm trying to do that. That's the hardest part about looking. I was like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

You can't get your gun on the damn bird because you're whacking trees or bridges. Yeah. That's the biggest issue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

So I mean I was surprised I hit it and then looking, looking, I was like, nah, I'm not doing it again unless there's a dog so they can find the thing 'cause I was pretty disappointed.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

So a hunting with a dog is the best.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, that's neat. So then you you've incorporated that into your your hunting. Yeah.

From Lab To Drahthaar Dogs

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah. Uh like I said, Jace died suddenly. He ended up with cancer. So I had to get all of a sudden had to get another dog because I only had the one at the time. And I had to get another dog. I had to get him trained up. So I guided 2024, fall 2024, just very little. And then this fall I had a few groups in. And I mean I'm just getting into the upland guiding. I've done it my whole life, but I'm just getting into the guiding of it. And uh you gotta have a few dogs to cycle. Yeah, I've got two now, and I'm actually gonna look at getting another, a third, probably maybe even a Deutsch Kurzheir.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

That's the German version of a German short hair pointer.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

I like the German dogs.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Well, I remember the first time really upland hunting was uh I guess last year with a buddy of mine and his uncle, and you know, you'd see in hunting magazines or videos and all that where there's a bunch of there's people that go out with a bunch of uh bird dogs, you see them all in different kennels and stuff in the truck. And being a houndsman, I'm like, do they run them all at once? Because that's what we do with the hounds. You know, or you'll cycle some dogs and if you're doing it a full day, but for the most part you have several on the go. And then I realize that the dogs in the thick stuff are tiring within an hour or two. Well, and they don't know enough to pace themselves. So I realize that's why you bring so many, because every hour or two hours you're switching dogs out.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

And the hotter it is, the quicker they burn out. Yeah. Yeah. Our our falls, the the weather's changed. October's a lot hotter than it used to be. So and that's another reason I'm kind of looking at a Kurtz Hire is just their short coat. Right. Handle the heat a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

So because my youngest guy, Chester, he's got a coat on him like a friggin' sheep. Yeah. He's super dense, gets hot real quick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

So I want to talk too a little bit about, you know, it's always important to exercise your dogs off, you know, at a season and everything. Some people lack on that. Uh see that you got into the fat bike thing. Tell me, I'm curious about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

It looks like fun, you do it in the winter and man, when you got dogs like these, like I said, a Deutsche Dryhir is not for everyone. I honestly I hardly ever recommend them.

unknown 46:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

It's like the hounds, I tell people that. People like because sometimes they can be nice and cuddly and stuff, right? But I was like, don't it's not a good first dog for one. Yeah. And if you you gotta hunt them. Do something you right?

SPEAKER_00 46:23

That's well, and I mean our dogs are man, that's the thing about a wire hair. They're they're the most cuddly damn dog there is. Like they sleep in our bed, they're right in your face and love you to death, but their desire to hunt and run and chase and their energy levels is way higher than you could ever imagine. And just being lit outside to pee and fetch a few times is not gonna satisfy them. So I mean, if you're gonna get a dog like this, it's you've got to make an absolute life commitment and your life's gonna change. Everything you do, not just in October, November, December, but like 12 months of the year has to revolve around those dogs. And for us, that's the decision we made. Like, I mean, I live to be outside. Everything we do from camping, hiking, mountain biking, hunting, fishing, whatever, is all outdoors, and they can take part in it. Like we camped across Canada and the US for almost a month, and I mean we took our dog because we were gonna be hiking and doing that kind of stuff every day. So yeah, and we used to ski and we've always hiked, but I mean these dogs need running every day, so I bought a bought a snowmobile. I built a bunch of mountain bike trails out back, and I bought an old Skidoo Chandra, built a drag, and now I groom the trails and we bought fat tired fat bikes. Yeah, yeah. They're just mountain bikes with big fat tires you can ride on a so they're made from the snow. Yep. Yeah, okay. Yeah, they got studded tires. Oh yeah, yeah, that's cool. And my wife and I each have one, and now Andrew, my buddy, he's got one, and Dusty's got one, and I are we run our dogs every single day. Yeah. So it's minimum three point two kilometers to I mean, sometimes I'll do run them well, we're doing three point two K to ten kilometers ourselves, and the dogs are doing at least two to three times that. Yeah, yeah, just running back and forth here and there. So it's I mean, it's good exercise for us and good exercise for them. We go in go in the house at night and they're pretty chill.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

And I mean Yeah, a tired dog's a good dog. It is, especially when it comes to working breeds.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Oh, and and I mean, like I said, for these guys, it's not just a oh, maybe we can run it the they have to.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Or you're gonna just come get tired and yeah. Yeah, you're gonna have a bad, bad time.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

They can be a little crankier too, and and we've got two males. Yeah. They would be fighting all the time, they'd be getting into shit, tearing stuff apart, just jumping all over you. Just if you don't entertain them, they're gonna entertain themselves.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Very smart dog.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Exactly. Um Yeah, no, I I've just seen your pictures and videos of things like that. I was like, oh, it's kinda interesting.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I used to do a lot of biking when we were younger and well, if you're ever gonna go out west or anything like that, I mean, if you're gonna be hiking high altitude, like you want mountain biking is probably the best form of exercise you can get for that. Like I mean, I'm a big dude, but my resting heart rate's like forty-eight to fifty. Oh yeah, yeah. It's low. Yeah. Because then for the biking. You're on a yeah, you're on a mountain bike. I mean, you're biking for an hour to three hours with a heart rate of 130, 140. You're really building your heart and lungs.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yeah. It helps a lot. It keeps you. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

A little more fit than I might look. Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

No, yeah. No, you uh yeah. It definitely it would help a lot, especially with all the running around that you're doing coming up soon with bear baiting.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

I mean, that that's been clearing. Man, you do that for two or three months straight.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Yeah. And then speaking about keeping fit, um the eating comes into it and all that. So I want to s your dad's big into the cooking and stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. So tell me because uh he's had some videos and things like that. Tell me a bit about that, because I see that your dad's really into the wild game cooking and everything.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Yep, dad, I mean, man, I gr I his side of the family is like mega carnivores. Oh, yeah. Oh man. Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Like my grandfather is wild. He ate game meat and fish that he caught like just unbelievable amounts. I'm even the same way. Like, I eat probably 80% meat. Like a typical meal for me is pure meat. I'll have like eight pork chops or three chicken breasts or a steak or burger. Like, I just eat a lot of meat. And dad, a few, well, I don't even know how many years ago, he was in bad shape. Like, dad was 5'10 and like he got over 270 pounds. He was in bad shape. And he ate like shit. And I don't know where he discovered this carnivore diet. And I mean he ate meat, but I mean, if you eat too many calories, you're gonna get fat. And uh he found this carnivore diet and just completely the weight just fell right off him. And not only that, like over Christmas time we'll eat kind of he'll splurge or whatever. And I mean, dad's 70, and like you'll have arthritis pain, and he goes carnivore, all of his arthritis pain is gone. Blood pressure is perfect, he's on no medication for anything, and all of that is just from literally being carnivore.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Wow, like it's it's I know we're made to eat meat. It's like some people try and say we're not like people have canine teeth. Any one animal that has canines that doesn't eat meat, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

And I mean, you don't even have to eat 100% meat. Like I'm not I'm not currently omnivores. Yeah, like I I I guess my diet would be more keto, I guess, if you could call it. Like I eat probably eighty percent meat and then twenty percent fruit and vegetable, cheese, yeah, stuff like that. But I mean, I don't eat any bread really, don't really drink any don't drink milk, just drink water, electrolytes.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

What was it like when you had uh well, you had Brad down, like seeing him eating being an NHL player?

SPEAKER_00 52:20

Was he pretty picky or like that time of year was I mean I don't serve bad meal. I mean I serve meals that I like. Like my favorite meal is like a red eye steak. So do you do all the cooking there when the clients stay? You do?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Also, you're really busy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Brother, she's seven days a week for three months and it's 7 a.m. to midnight or one a.m. sometimes earlier or later if we were chasing bears. Yeah, that's a lot of work just doing the cooking, along with everything else. You don't have to do that because uh but I mean the business is young, I wanted to put as much money back into it as I could. And because I mean we've only got three little hunting camps. We don't have anything fancy and no vehicles and stuff like that that we all had to buy, so put a lot of work into it. But dad just retired this fall, so he's gonna be I'm gonna hire him. Do some cook. He'll be the camp guy.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Yeah, that'll help a lot.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Um Yeah, so it's been great. We've talked about a lot. What's uh what's next? What are your you doing the podcasting and you're doing the podcasting?

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Outfitting. I mean, the end goal is to just do the outfitting for a living.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

You plan on upping the upland hunting.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Oh yeah, I'm I I want to book as much as I can. I would like to get a full fall, like all of October and maybe even summer November. And I mean I doing turkey hunts too. Hopefully it'll pick up more.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

I guide as many people as I can to that, locals or or Americans, whichever it's uh you guys have a lot of turkeys in your neck of the woods.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

It's insane. They're their numbers are just going crazy.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

We're getting better here, but um yeah, because how new is the turkey season to New Brunswick for five years.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Five years, okay. Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

And you guys the population's really exploding. That's all coming in from Maine.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah, they just walk across the border.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

And I mean, up home just with so much agriculture, the amount of food they have is crazy. They're really nomadic. They'll wander all over and before too long you guys will be just clear full of them here. It's getting better.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

It's getting yeah, I like it. The farmers uh they're not as big as a farmers hate them here. Yeah, they do. They do hate they hate them here too.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yeah, I went around uh I went around to get a petition signed for to get more bear tag allocations with for United Guides and Outfitters and went to a lot of farmers and was like, hey, will you sign this petition to get outfitters more tag? Oh yeah. What about turkeys? Yeah, yeah. Every single one. What about turkeys? What about turkeys? Yeah. Like, I mean, you take a flock of 25 or 30 turkeys rolling through a freshly planted field.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

I mean they're tearing it up.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Oh man, they're eating a lot.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Yeah. I mean it's no wild boar, but it's a it's a pain.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

It's not wild boar. I don't think we want that now.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

No.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

I think that'd be devastating here.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Yeah, and then so you're doing all that, you want to up get the upland hunting more. And then also see your vice president. United guides and outfitters in Brent's which is a fairly new organization. Yeah. Um that's just a voice for the industry.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Yeah, I've always I've always been passionate about passing it on and trying to better the hunting and outdoors industry here. And United Guides and Outfitters right now is just one of the best ways to really do it. And it's an awesome organization led by a bunch of highly motivated people. And it's just a really good thing to be a part of because I don't know if everyone notices, but New Brunswick is way behind the times. We're not as far back as we used to be, thanks to Mike Holland. Yeah. Mike Holland made it We're not real progressive here, though. No, man. It's awful. Canada in general, I find, is it's terrible compared to the United States.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Yeah, other people are way, way ahead.

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SPEAKER_00 56:02

Like they're so far ahead of us in their wildlife management and their hunting practices and just they're just their general knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Even you know, I've talked about this before with people. I've never seen or heard of them radio collaring anything here that I know of. And this and that you you see in uh Alberta, some, British Columbia, in different states, but I mean, that's they're doing that. It's big lots of research and and everything. Yeah, it's it'd be nice to see a bit more of that here and just a little more interest in our renewable resources.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Yeah. And somebody's gonna advocate for that. And for me, that's United Guides and Outfitters. It's a good organization. And that's not the only thing we're doing. We're looking to just improve the outdoor industry in general here. Yeah. Try to get everything we can better.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Right. Um and then uh so people are looking to uh to look you up, Wesley. You guys got March Milco. Yeah, March Milco, Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Yeah, Facebook, Instagram, got a website, you can contact us there anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

And then uh obviously if someone's curious about getting into uh traditional bow hunting, he'd be your resource.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Yeah, I can I can point you in the right direction for that. I'm not involved with that anymore just because I'd rather chase my bird dog and lack of opportunity, but I still am alphabetically deadly. Yeah. Yep. I still could get you definitely involved in that if you're trad bow curious.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Yeah, and then uh and then your northeast upland.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Yeah, Northeast Upland podcast, YouTube channel, social media. And then you also me that's me and Dusty Babin and Andrew Davenport. Like I said, we just we love to chase our bird dogs, we love to film our hunts. Yeah. Put them on YouTube just to watch.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Um then well yeah, because you you have on YouTube Chasing the King, you guys have some.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, so that we changed it to Northeast Upland. It is just okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to get good footage, as we were talking earlier, of uh, you know, shooting grouse.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Oh, yeah. You pretty much stick a GoPro on your forehead and go after it. And like I said, we do it because we really love it. And just man, it's just fun to watch your hunts.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

That's how Waterfowl East started. Right. We just enjoyed watching our hunts and filming them.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

And then it just kind of ballooned from there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

I mean, YouTube channel up to like 13,000 subscribers, and now Matt's doing a TV show and just a steady progression from there.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Yeah, just and consistency with it. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean that's overnight.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

My goal is just uh I want to guide as many upland hunters as I can, try to become a little bit bigger name in that industry, I guess you could say, and just and just enjoy chasing bird dogs and other people that enjoy chasing bird dogs too. Yeah. And waterfowl. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Well, Wesley, it's been great talking to you. It's obvious that you're passionate about it, and it's uh It's my entire life. It's always nice to chat with somebody that is passionate about something like that in the outdoor industry.

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SPEAKER_00 59:01

Uh and that's the good thing about it, man. There's so many people around here that are just so passionate about it, and they might not be on social media. Mm-hmm. That's where these podcasts come in handy to sit down and talk to guys like Robert Little who have given the spotlight. Yeah. I mean, Robert's 70 years old and has hunted grouse and woodcock his entire life here and field trial and just to just to listen to the history of it and stuff like Alton Morrison, the guy we bought our camps from, started outfitting in 1980, has eighty years of hunting experience and just some of the stories he sat down around the campfire and told, man. I mean, like that shit's incredible. Yeah. Like to hear about what hunting was like here in the 50s, 60s, 70s. It's freaking wild. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Yeah, it it's it's nice to to hear that bit of history.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

There's a there's a ton of passionate people here in this province that people don't even know about.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

And I mean, like Clay Harrison, four generate fourth generation outfitter man. Like the amount of experience that that man has in the woods and on the water is more than most people would ever get in ten lifetimes. Well, exactly. Like guys like that, and to be able to hang around with them and talk to them and just it's just great. And if you're passionate like that, I mean to hear those stories and that life and it's friggin' awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

Yeah. Yeah. Well, perfect. Thanks. Till next time. See ya.