Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Ep.117 Three Turkeys In Three Countries, One Spring
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Three turkeys in one spring sounds like bragging rights until you hear what it actually takes. I’m Ken Marr, and I sit down with Ontario turkey hunter and caller Adrian Hare to unpack a wild run that spans three countries and three very different birds: an Osceola in South Florida, a Gould’s turkey in Durango, Mexico, and an Eastern turkey back home in Ontario. If you love spring turkey hunting, this one is packed with the kind of details you only get from someone who has chased gobblers for decades and still pays attention to what the woods are telling him.
We start with Adrian’s background on the Quaker Boy pro staff and what competition calling taught him about diaphragm calls, reed counts, and why certain cuts create the rasp and realism hunters chase. Then we dig into tactics that travel: how to hunt quieter Osceola turkeys without overcalling, why a patient sit can beat running and gunning, and how he approaches morning birds versus afternoon birds. We also get into shotgun decisions like using a 410 with TSS, pattern confidence, and how regulations and shot size choices affect performance.
Mexico shifts the strategy again. Adrian explains why dry country makes water holes the center of the game for Gould’s turkeys, how fast these birds move, and what rocky hills and valleys mean for setups and calling. Finally, we come back to Ontario for a blunt look at turkey population drops after deep snow winters, why fewer hens changes everything, and what hunters can watch for as hatch rates and spring weather shape the future.
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Welcome And Spring Hunting Update
SPEAKER_02I'm telling you. The Hunt's an opening podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, Ken Mayer. I love everything hunting, the outdoors, and all things associated with it. Welcome. All right, hey, thanks for lending me your ears for this week's podcast. It is late at night. Uh actually, nope, it's early in the morning. Um but uh it's been busy lately. Why? Because it's spring and it's turkey and it's bear season. And if you haven't noticed a theme lately with the podcast, uh we're bouncing back and forth between turkey and bear hunting talks because it is that kind of beer. Um it's uh it's been fun, it's been a grind, it's been a good time. I just recently got back from Maine. We hammered down there, uh the battle the deer, the turkeys and ticks and the weather and all kinds of stuff. We had a blast and um we got uh showed up by some old tons there, but um we weren't there too long for the last day. We figured, you know what, let's get some uh some cakes in the freezer so we can have some turkey sauce at this beer. So uh we were successful. We had a lot of laughs, we had some interesting things happen to us. Uh so that will be a podcast on a later date. And then um I've got some hunters up here with me right now. We are uh one of them dumped a nice turkey this morning and uh we went bear hunting this evening, had two bear in uh both 12 yards away. We're in a ground blind, but they just weren't quite big enough. So uh nice white patches on them, but just not big enough for the boys, which is great, so we're gonna keep on hunting. Um this week, though, we're talking with Adrian. Adrian, he talked to us about you know starting with Quaker Boy in 1995. And uh for some of us, just to harvest one turkey a year could be such a grind in a town, like a nice picture on. Well, Adrian did that with the uh Osceola turkey, the gold turkey, and the Eastern turkey. So he did that in one spring, three different subspecies, three different countries, and it's gonna talk to us all about that. We talked about some turkey and the strategies, we talked a little bit about some unique characteristics with each of the subspecies and the difference between hunting them. Adrian is an interesting guy, great to talk to and has a vast knowledge of Turkey, and the turkey hunting experience. So it's a really great talk with this on the year as well. If you're out bow hunting Turkey or you're bow hunting bear, be sure to check out Fullik it R3 products and use code HUNTON2026, all caps, all one word. You're gonna save yourself some money at the checkout, which is great. Everyone loves to do that. So let's get uh chatting with uh Adrian. Oh, and if you were looking to get a hold of us to maybe come on the podcast or suggest somebody for it or just reach out to me, you can email me at HuntsOnoutfitting at gmail.com or you can find us on Facebook, Hunts on Outfitting, or find myself on there, Ken Meyer. Feel free to reach out. Some of you guys have been. It's been great talking with you from all over. Yeah, you know, I I saw on Facebook that you had uh a really good spring turkey season. Uh what was it? Is three birds, three countries in about a month?
SPEAKER_00Uh yes. Um I hunted uh South Florida. Um actually, I go down every year and hunt down there. Uh took a bird actually at uh uh mid-April, I guess it was, uh, in Florida. Uh that was called the Osceola. Um then I flew out from Florida to uh Mexico, uh Durango, Mexico, and I went and hunted the gold. Um it was a fantastic hunt too. So uh uh I was successful there and uh that worked real great. So uh back to Florida I went and I drove back home here, and well, this just this past week uh our Ontario season opened up and I've been lucky enough that I've taken two actually birds. Um we're allowed two tags here, so I've got them both used up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, you got one this morning.
SPEAKER_00Yes, sir, I did.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's pretty good. Um yeah, no, I'm excited to hear about all this. So if we could uh we'll just back up a little bit and uh kind of who you are and we'll get into a little bit how you got into uh to turkey hunting, because you do you do a lot of it.
Guest Setup Sponsor And Contact Info
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, I do. Um actually uh well I'm I'm Adrian Hare uh from Ontario, Canada, new low, um to be precise. Um I started working with Quaker Boy Game Calls back in 1995 uh because of of competition, turkey calling here in Ontario. Um, you know, uh the latter uh uh years that I started to get into it, I I started jumping over the border and and calling a little bit down there, and well, I got that bug. Uh you start uh shooting and taking turkeys, and before long, uh you're running all over the place. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02How so yeah, how did you get set up with uh with Quaker Boy? Because I mean, back in you said 95, right? Yes. Um that I mean that it was very new. I mean, what was going on for the mouth calls then for diaphragm calls? They weren't using I heard the old fellas used like lead or something.
SPEAKER_00That that was way back, uh way back years ago, yes. Um really can I started in 1988 uh turkey hunting, that was my first year. Um I had shot a Jake or a young bird then, and that's when it it kind of grabbed me. But um over the years of of you know taking other friends out and learning to call and stuff like that, I guess Quaker Boy got uh a little bit of a wind of me, and uh one day I got a phone call asking uh if I'd be interested in being part of the pro staff, and I accepted it and I took it seriously. So um from there, um, well, uh we weren't into lead mouth calls then, um, but there was uh a lot of great mouth calls. Um, you know, there was uh the old Turk, they called it the old boss hand, uh the Pearl Triple. Um and the funny thing is, is back then uh you really didn't know a whole lot about the different uh type mouth calls, uh, other than they did make a little bit of different sound, but it was uh I guess an ego thing that everybody wanted to uh call with uh these mouth calls with more the most reads in them. Um you know, you got calls that are two-readed calls, you got three-readed calls, four-readed calls. Um, and to be honest, every read that's in that call just makes it that much harder. Uh, it takes that much more air pressure to operate that call. And over the years I've learned quite a bit about mouth calling. So, matter of fact, now I'm right back. I run a two-readed call or two and a half readed call um now as it is. So that's what I'm calling my birds with.
SPEAKER_02And then, I mean, back then too, when you kind of got into it, was there we were did you have all the different cuts, like your bat wing, your ghost cut, your combo cut, your reverse combo, all those, or was it just more uh they were all kind of the same?
Three Birds Across Three Countries
SPEAKER_00Well, no, um there was different uh different type cuts. Uh there was like um the raspy cuts were like V V type cuts. Um uh I mentioned the old boss hand. It's kind of a cut on each side of the top uh read of that call, and that's actually just a two-readed call. Um, but just them two cuts on each side of that top read would give it a little bit of rasp and a different sound. So uh yeah, all these different calls were all built and they had little different cuts to them to produce different type sounds and tones.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's uh that's neat, just kind of getting into it then. And then uh was there was Quaker Boy making uh were they making pot calls and box calls then too?
SPEAKER_00Or yes, sir. Um they uh are uh a call company that uh covered um the whole uh arsenal of of turkey calls. Uh Dick Kirby was the founder of the the company, and uh uh Dick actually was a barber by trade, and he got into uh making turkey calls and stuff, and uh I'm kind of thinking that the haircutting came to an end and the calling uh took off. And yeah, he made pot calls, he made uh um box calls and different types of box calls, too. Uh uh the average turkey hunter, when he goes out and he looks at the calls on the shelf, you're gonna see um a number of different types of uh boxes, and all them different types of boxes actually produce different sounds, um, volumes like uh higher pitched and lower pitched and and that sort of thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Quaker boy, I mean, it yeah, it's a big name. I mean, I'm pretty sure I've got an old uh doe bleat kicking around somewhere, and buck grunt too. Uh that's Quaker Boy is my first, probably my first call it's I ever bought.
SPEAKER_00Right, sure. Yeah. I think we all do. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, they they got out everywhere. Yeah, that's uh that's pretty neat. Um so I'm excited to hear about uh I guess your first your first hunt for one of the subspecies this year in Florida. Tell me a bit about uh that hunt and then also about the osteola turkey itself, because from what I've heard, like they're they're not nearly as vocal as the easters that most people are used to.
Quaker Boy Origins And Calling Contests
SPEAKER_00Not one bit. Um it it actually takes a lot of learning skill to uh be able to hunt these birds if you're hunting them under conditions of you know in the woods down there. Um you can hunt them in orange droves and stuff like that, where uh lots of times your your uh decoys, if you're gonna use decoys, will work you know as an advantage. Uh, if you get into the woods, you look for clearings or or along pastures. Uh the osseola is actually a very quiet bird. Um, what I've learned over the years, and uh just to make a point too, is I have actually hunted uh Florida since about 1994. Um so I I've kind of learned quite a bit about them, and you're actually hunting quiet birds. Um they will gobble a few times in the tree, uh, but one thing that you find down there in in Florida, especially South Florida, is when they fly out of the tree, everything on the ground is trying to get them. So they learn quite quick that if they're gobbling, they're getting chased. So, and even by the turkey hunter as well. So um, yeah, you're hunting you're hunting quiet birds down there all the time. So it's more of a sit and wait game, is what it is. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then I mean they're they're really unique too in the fact that they're only found in that one area of Florida, and that's it. There's no others in the world, is there?
SPEAKER_00Not one bit, no. Uh the only place is, well, you if you gotta know the lay of the land or the maps down there, but there's a highway 60 that runs uh east and west, and that's just uh north of Okeechobee or Lake Okechobee. Um everything south of that highway six is getting into the true Osceola. Um any birds actually that go to the north, uh, you're getting into more of a hybrid uh type bird, or even you know, a lot of the easterns. And I have killed birds down there where one day I've killed an osseola and a hybrid uh both side by side, and when you look at them, you can tell the difference. Oh yeah. Um yeah, the high hybrid's a way bigger bird. So um, yeah, osseolas aren't a real real big bird. Um if you get an 18-pound osseola, you're doing pretty good.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really? Wow, because the easters are, I mean, what, 22, 25?
SPEAKER_00Um, actually an aver uh an average eastern is is probably around the 18 to the 20.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So huh.
SPEAKER_02That's that's neat about the hybrid thing, because I mean there's not a lot of or of any subspecies really that can uh have produce hybrids like that. Now I wonder if those can those hybrids reproduce themselves.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure. They can. And yeah, yeah, and every uh every subspecies out there um except uh the golds, as far as I know, because there's only you know a few uh uh provinces or states or whatever they have there that have these turkeys, the rest don't have turkeys at all. But um, you know, anywhere across the United States, when you're traveling and you're taking these different subspecies, uh, you'll get that subspecie in that state. But when you start getting to the outside of it, um you start getting into uh mixtures is what you get. And the eastern um the eastern wild turkey is all over the place. So uh they tend to get mixed with, you know, whether it's Mariams or or Rio Grande's and Mariams will mix together and uh uh yeah, it'll just it'll just run and run. So um, you know, you uh you and you can actually see the the larger birds um in these um as far as the hybrids, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's uh that's really interesting. They're they're such a unique bird. Yeah. Um yeah, so also you hear a lot of stuff in Florida about the uh the python problem and all that, in that area where the osseolas are, is are the pythons a problem or they haven't quite reached there?
Diaphragm Call Reeds Cuts And Skill
SPEAKER_00Um no, the the pythons are there. Um it's I kind of chuckle a little bit actually about this because uh I'm not a snake lover. And uh I I have hunted actually osseolas right down in the Everglades, uh right where all them snakes are and where everybody seems to watch uh you know the serpent shows and and that sort of thing. But what I learned over the years was when uh turkey season is on down there, it's cool enough that these pythons aren't out and about, so you don't tend to uh uh run across them. So um yeah, yeah, and I and I I'll uh you know I'll be honest, I've never seen one. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, never seen one.
SPEAKER_02Well that's that's good, yeah. Um the because you gotta wonder too, I mean, if the if the turkey population there is in jeopardy because of it, because they're saying that I know in the Everglades that uh I think it's I forget the percentage, it's incredibly high at the amount of small game uh that's vanished, basically, that's non-existent anymore because of these snakes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. They've wiped out uh an awful lot down there. Yeah. I know um when it when it comes to the turkeys though, I really have to question whether the snakes would get too many of them. You know, turkeys are pretty sharp. Um, you know, they can see uh, you know, ten times better than you and I. Um and they hear about five times better. So when they see one of them snakes moving around, I'm sure they're not on top of picking it. You know what I mean? Like they're gonna avoid that situation.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was hoping they uh they can kind of keep away from them. Um exactly. Yeah, so uh yes tell us about uh how the hunt there kind of started and and how that went.
SPEAKER_00Um in in Florida, you're you're meaning? Yes, please. Yeah. Oh well um uh uh I got set up actually along I was in the woods along a pasture, and I had known this bird was was there because uh somebody had spotted it actually down the road from from where I was. So I went in early uh morning before daylight, uh, got in, got set up, and I was kind of inside the woods a bit. Um and I waited for uh uh things to wake up, the bird started gobbling on the roost, and luckily enough, I wasn't too terribly far away uh from the bird. Um I called while he was in the tree, and he answered me, so I just stopped completely there and I let him fly down out of the tree. Well, unfortunately, like uh every turkey hunt seems to start out as uh once the bird flew out of the tree, he flew right away from me and flew out into the pasture. Um so I ended up calling him from there and he gobbled. Um they do gobble in the mornings as well, like as soon as they come off the limb. And uh I worked him in actually right to where I was I was sat up. So but he only had like 100, 150 yards to to come from uh to get to my position. But um one real neat thing is uh down in Florida, um I hunt with the 410. Uh the 410 down there's legal, so yeah, um yeah, yeah, I do all my osceola hunting with uh with the 410. And uh um yeah, I have actually even got some YouTube videos out there of osseolas that I've shot with that 410, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you just looking for the added challenge with it?
Osceola Turkeys Quiet Woods Tactics
SPEAKER_00Um well I'm getting older. Uh I'm finding these guns are getting heavier and heavier every year. So um yeah, and and you know what, like I've been like that since I started uh Turkey hunting years ago was to find uh some of the best uh um shotguns that I possi possibly could put together um you know to produce dense patterns. And I went from the 12 gauge to the 20, and uh I use the 20 here all the time, and I have now for years. Um you know, and I just decided, well, I heard people talking about the 410, so I thought, well, I'll try that out too. And I was luckily enough when I bought uh 410 for turkey hunting, the one I had bought was perfect. I didn't have to put a whole lot into it, so um, it shoots real well.
SPEAKER_02Are you shooting so what are you shooting the TSS with that or what are you throwing?
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, yes, with the 410 you pretty near have to stick with the TSS. Right, yeah. Um, you know, and it's lighter shot as well. Like you're allowed to use the lighter shot down there in Florida, not number nines, eight nines, I guess is what it is.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, here in Ontario we can't use that light a shot. Number sevens is as light as possible, but uh um and truth be known, I think I would sooner use a number seven over a number nine anyway. Um You got a lot of density, but you don't have that energy you do out of a salmon.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah. It's basically a gate load to get over that.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Uh so the turkey, so uh after he flew away and you were doing some calling, like were you thinking, you know, uh, maybe this guy's off, he's off to greener pastures for the morning.
SPEAKER_00Every every turkey that flies out of the tree, you have exactly that feeling. Like you're going home empty-handed. Um, you know, I I joke around with a lot of friends because I used to uh if I take a turkey, I'd text people on that and I'd say nap time. And when I said nap time, they knew I would kill the bird because uh, you know, when you get up at that four o'clock in the morning, uh lots of times you're ready for a nap come, you know, eleven, twelve o'clock. So um, you know, and then uh over the years I've learned that it's not all about four o'clock in the morning either. You can uh you can kill as many birds after eight o'clock as you can getting up early in the morning. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've recently heard uh yeah, I've recently heard that. Yeah, some guys were talking about that, saying, like, you know, ten, eleven o'clock and beyond sometimes can be can be pretty good hunting too.
SPEAKER_00Yes, sir. Yeah. Um here in Ontario, you can hunt uh right through the whole day until 7 o'clock in the evening. So um what a turkey hunter learns, um, you know, with experience, is there's specific ways of hunting birds first thing in the morning, and there's specific ways of hunting birds in the afternoon. And uh, you know, like I find a lot of the afternoon hunting here, uh, you know, you're scouting, you're watching uh for food sources and water sources because turkeys love to eat and drink before they fly up into roost. So uh uh we stop our hunting here at 7 o'clock, so the birds aren't up in the roost, they're actually still out feeding and that. But what I've learned is is uh you set up on like a food source and call sparingly, maybe have a couple of decoys out, and uh you you'll find them birds will work right into you. But uh one thing I found with the afternoon is you don't want to overcall birds. And you know, that can that can shut a hunt down pretty quick.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. Yeah, it's um and then in the mornings too. I mean, when when they fly down, are you just are you letting them normally talk to you first before you make any kind of sound?
Florida Predators Pythons And Pressure
SPEAKER_00Um I guess you could pretty well say that. Uh uh one of my strategies of turkey hunting in the morning is is I listen to the birds, and the birds pretty well tell you uh what kind of uh of day that they're gonna have, or or uh I don't know if you've heard the terminology of taking their temperature, but uh that used to be a thing years ago too, is is uh you would try calling them one way and see what kind of response you got. And if they got cranked up with it, well, you just kept doing what uh uh what you were doing. Um I find uh I listened to the real hens, and the real hens will pretty much tell you what kind of calling that they want to hear. Um, some mornings you're gonna get them where they're not gonna say a darn thing. And if you're a turkey hunter sitting in a blind and you're calling and calling and calling, and no other birds are calling, um, I just hate to say it, but they totally avoid you. They they know it's not natural, so they're gonna. Um, you know, if if uh if they're doing some calling, well, you listen to them and see what kind of calling they're they're doing, because um lots of times uh they'll just yelp a few times, um you know, and and be sparingly about it, and that's the way you should try to call your birds as well. Um I've had other mornings where hens will come out of a tree and they are cutting and carrying on, and you know, they're all excited. Well, uh that's the time when you know you need to to learn to do them type of calls as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I I know you you hear that turmoil about taking the temperature, but I mean, yeah, it it rings true when we just uh like you're saying, just but that's a good idea, just letting the actual hand set the tone for the day. And let you for the morning at least to let you know what's gonna work and what doesn't. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And and it can't be any natural than that, can it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah, so Florida, so Florida was what went well for you, and you're able to get a nice uh nice old tone there.
SPEAKER_00Yes, sir, I did. Uh uh as I do practically every year, I I kill birds there. So um I've lost count, I'll be honest, Ken. I've lost count on how many birds that I've taken. Um it's actually ridiculous when you think back on it. But um, you know, that that's part of the course when uh when you're kind of hooked. So yeah. Uh yeah, yeah, I uh I took a real good osceola um in Florida, and uh um, you know, I'm always proud of doing that because if you can kill them birds and you don't uh you know you don't work them just quite the same as you would in Eastern, you're doing pretty good then. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, it's cool. So then uh and then off to Mexico. So I don't know much about the golds. I know that they are tall, they've got big feet and they're tall. Um past that I don't don't I don't know too much about them.
SPEAKER_00Uh that's exactly right. And and they're they're actually very large-bodied. Okay, they just kind of tower over top of, well, say an Osceola or an Eastern. Um they're they're a little bigger than than uh the Eastern as well. Um I can't give you a whole terrible lot about the golds because I really don't know a whole lot about them. I've only hunger them the once. Um, but I know the one I killed was 25 pounds. Um they weighed it and it was 25. So and and I found the feet on the bird was uh just incredible. Like I'm talking twice the size of a uh an eastern foot. Yeah. For sure.
SPEAKER_02So why why do you think their feet are that big?
SPEAKER_00Well, must have done. Um what I learned what I learned, and I had a very short uh learning time down there because I was only there actually for about four days. But what I found was I don't believe that they have lawnmowers in Mexico. They don't sell lawnmowers because everybody's got rocks all over their property. Yeah. And I I mean, like literally the whole yards covered in rocks. So obviously them birds are walking on rocks all the time. So I I'm gonna say that that's got a big part of why they have big feet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just a little extra grip and stuff, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So um, yeah, so how how did that hunt come about? I mean, you said this was your first time. Were you pretty excited? I mean, a whole new species of turkey.
The 410 TSS Choice And Patterns
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, well, I've done uh quite a few grand slams. Uh I lost count around 15 and I just kind of quit quit even thinking about them anymore. But uh that was a hunt uh, I'll be honest, I never figured I'd ever have a chance of doing. And uh here's the funny thing was back in uh in February, early February, no, it might have been January, sorry, um, I had a friend of mine that uh isn't too terribly far away, he phoned me up, uh, and he said, What are you doing on April 1st? And I said, Well, I'm gonna be in Florida. I'm gonna be down there, you know, hunting and that. And he said, Well, um, if you haven't got anything planned, uh, he said, You want to go on a hunt? And I said, Well, what uh what are we talking? He said, Well, I'm gonna book a hunt to Mexico. And he says, I want somebody to go with me. So he said, You're in. And I said, Oh, am I? All right, well, I've always wanted to hunt uh gold, so sure, I'll go. And that's where it all started off from that point. Uh we uh we booked the outfitter, uh, you know, George Breton outdoors, and uh away we went on on well, actually we showed up, I think, March 30th. We flew into Mexico and got a hotel for the night until they picked us up and and took us up into the mountains there to to hunt these birds.
SPEAKER_02Oh that's uh yeah, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it was. Uh uh, and I was really surprised because it didn't take me too long before I used up that tag. Um, I think I was about 30 minutes.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00That's about as long as I was 30 minutes, and I had these birds all come in, and there was a number of different birds that came in, and I had this one picked out. It took me a little while to to let them separate, and finally he, you know, produced me with a shot, so I took it. And uh, yeah, I'm gonna say about 30 minutes and I had my royal slam, too.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um well so what it how do how do you hunt them? And I mean, they're they're such a different subspecies. Did do is there much calling going on? Are you just setting up over food sources there? Like what's it like in Mexico?
SPEAKER_00Uh actually, um yeah, you can call in birds every bit as uh good as you can, the easterns or or even the other subspecies. Uh they gobble. Um they act just the same uh uh as uh any other bird. Uh what they do is they target water sources. That's the biggest thing down there because it was so dry. Uh there was absolutely no water anywhere, none in the creeks or anything like that. Everything was dried up, and there was just like little ponds that were dug for cattle and stuff, and that's the areas that uh that these this outfitter would concentrate on. So if you got around them them water holes, um, you know, first thing in the morning, that's the first thing them birds want to do is come to the water holes and drink and and games on. You can call them right from there.
SPEAKER_02So are they do they hang out like I like the other ones? Do they hang out in much of a flock? Are they kind of more solo or the fairly social birds?
Gould’s Turkey Hunt Durango Water Holes
SPEAKER_00Well, we were Yeah, we were there right at the start of the season. So a lot of the birds um were hed up. So there was actually a quite a few birds together. Uh you could uh in some of the flocks that we've seen, there'd be, you know, 20 birds maybe in um, you know, with with hens and and everything. So I would imagine throughout the season they would start breaking up and start moving. Uh what I did notice with these birds though is they would come and go rather quick. Uh these these birds knew knew how to move. So um, you know, as far as them walking uh two or three miles, it was nothing for them at all. Uh they would do it. Yeah, they would do it. So yeah. They put they were just just just like a machine out in the woods.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, they put those long legs and and feet to work. Exactly. That's right. Now, would they have many predators in Mexico?
SPEAKER_00Well, you know what, that's uh that's a good question. I guess they got coyotes because I seen coyotes there. Um well I shouldn't say uh uh you know too many, but I did see one anyway, so I know they got coyotes. Um bobcats, I think, and they had cougars too, uh, he told me, but I'd never seen any bobcats or cougars. So, you know, I I would think, yeah, like there's kind of the average predator that they'd have. But um as far as snakes and stuff like that, I uh I'll be honest, I've never seen a snake. Oh, well that's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Cause what I mean, it was there a lot of trees there or was it fairly open?
SPEAKER_00Tons of trees. Uh tons of trees and very hilly, um, and and I'm talking straight up, straight down type hills. So yeah, uh valleys, a lot of valley type stuff. Um the lower areas would have more of uh a prairie look, only you know, stones everywhere. Um yeah, like uh uh Mexico, that part of Durango, Mexico is just covered in stones. Like there's just stone everywhere. But even the roads, uh you drive for an hour and a half in a vehicle and you can't go any farther faster than about 30 miles an hour because you know, just the the roads are just rocky, you know. So it would take it would take time to try to get someplace there. And they don't have any road maintenance, so you know, you're dealing with everyday traffic on them roads.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, yeah, that'd be different. So it not a great farming uh region there.
SPEAKER_00Um no, other than cattle, yeah. Um, you know, that's about that's about all cattle. Um well, I've seen some donkeys, but and some horses, but um, yeah, nothing uh um nothing that would be like we got here at all, or or even in New Brunswick.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, yeah, it's quite different. So you talk about the hills. Uh I'm going turkey hunting. I'm leaving on uh well I this podcast to be out later, but I'm leaving Sunday for Maine. Uh the area we're going to is quite hilly. How how do you handle the hills and stuff going? Because the turkeys would rather go uphill than down, correct?
SPEAKER_00Um no. No. Um I I can't I can't agree with that of now, like from over the years. I've called as many birds downhills as I have uphills. Oh, okay. Um yeah. Uh they like they would sooner work on a level, if you really know what I mean. Um but uh not very often I ever caught birds halfway up a hill. You know what I mean? It's either they're on top or they're down below. It's one or the other. You know, and and lots of times you you want to get on their level to try to call them.
SPEAKER_02So But you don't find it matters if they go up or down. I just heard they they'd rather go up just because they can the way their eyes work, they can see better than when they're going down.
SPEAKER_00But Well, I you know what? Like uh I can't disagree with with that uh let's say let's call it terminology because I was told the same thing way back in 1988 that turkeys won't come downhill. Um you know, it's it's easier to call them uphill because uh you know they uh they can travel uphill easier. Uh what I really found is lots of times turkeys will roost on the edge of hills. So when they're in trees along the edge of hills, when they fly down, they're not gonna fly downhill, they're gonna fly onto the top, you know, where they flew in to start with. Um, you know, like uh as far as uh uh working the bird, uh if it's gonna come downhill, like it's just like you and I. It's gonna walk down on an angle, you know, uh, you know, trying to come come to your your position.
SPEAKER_02So Right, yeah, yeah. No, it makes sense. Um yeah, so I guess then on to the next country, Canada. So you know, Florida w went well in the States to Mexico, and then uh and then you're home in Canada to uh to complete the three subspecies, three countries.
Rocky Terrain Big Feet And Moving Fast
SPEAKER_00Yes, sir, and uh actually I I really got uh um a renewing here because when I left there was all kinds of birds. Uh we had birds all over the place here, so um I felt more than confident uh uh uh when I left that when I came back uh there was gonna be uh places to to take some of these birds. Um I have a quite a bit of property to hunt because I grew up with all the farmers and stuff around me. So um, you know, I got a lot of farm country here that I can hunt on, but when I got back, I found that um I'm gonna say probably 75% of the places that I normally hunt and has birds didn't have birds. And they didn't even there isn't even sign of birds in the area. Um the birds are really concentrated, and luckily enough, right here at my house, um, because I'm on a lower uh lower level here, um, so we had a few birds, but I'm gonna say just a few birds here and there, and that's it. Um I was really surprised, and they're saying that uh winter killed a lot of birds off this year because we had so much snow, um, you know, and our winters were long, and I actually can see that uh being out there. Um we just there's not the hens walking around that you normally see, and hens, there's usually, you know, way more hens than there is gobblers, uh, because they're the producers of of the the species, but um, there's not even hens. Like the hens have all died off as well. So um right now our population, there's there's birds to hunt, but it's it's way lower than it was before I left for Florida.
SPEAKER_02Really? That's too bad. So that that's what they're thinking. It is it is the the deep snow?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we and we've had a couple of bad winters in a row here, so you know that's really really gonna take its toll on it. But um when I got back, uh I only got about four days to really see around before our season opens, and I was a little bit worried. Um, I was a little worried uh just being able to try to find birds to hunt. And uh luckily enough here in the last couple of days it's it's turned out pretty good because I knew these birds were in these spots. So um, you know, and I had a buddy come from Pennsylvania, he hunts uh with me every year on opener for a couple of days, and and he went home empty-handed. Uh we had a hard time finding them, and when we did find them, he was going home and I was still hunting them. So I was luckily enough uh where I was able to use both of my uh two bird tags in in Ontario here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so well how how I've wondered that how do the turkeys deal with the deep snow and and stuff? Like what are they eating? How are they managing, I guess? Apparently not too well if it's really deep, but yeah.
Turkey Hills Myths And Level Setups
SPEAKER_00Um I think where it boils down to, Ken, is uh um a lot of The turkeys eat things like pine seeds, um, burdock bushes, um, you know, they get into trees and they'll they'll eat old uh grapes off of grape vines and that sort of thing. And uh when it gets to the point where the snow gets too deep, lots of times you start seeing these birds up in the trees and they'll stay there all day long. And they know like there's just no way that they're gonna get down on that snow and walk around and find food. And they'll literally stay in the trees until they just about starve themselves to death. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's it's quite sad, actually. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, so that's you just just hoping for uh for mild winters.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's right. And mild winters and drier springs. Now our spring so far hasn't been real bad, but uh the drier spring, I say that because that's where you know the hatch rates come in into effect. So um, you know, it's uh you you kind of pray every year that you have a dry spring so that you get uh get some new new birds in the area.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh were down significantly because of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it would be hard on the growth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um so yeah, so how did how did you manage to get the uh your last your Ontario bird there? I mean, was uh after hunting the osteola and then the goulds and they're going back to the Eastern? I mean, how was the transition to getting you know, working them?
Ontario Winter Losses And Hatch Rates
SPEAKER_00Well, I you know, I've done it for so many years now, I can jump from one to the other and uh I'm pretty pretty well used to it. But um, yeah, we kind of knew this uh this bird was in the area with a bunch of hens. And uh I went in after my buddy had left, went back home, and I got set up actually in a blind. I had a blind there, and I'm not really a blind hunter, but it was an afternoon hunt. Um I had heard actually a friend down the road said he had seen the flock of birds out in a specific field. So I was about uh half a field or so away from where he had seen them. Um I just sat up and I noticed that calling wasn't really working a whole lot. Uh you could call to the birds, they'd gobble, but they weren't coming to you because there were so many hens, you know, kind of in the way. But I got set up for an afternoon hunt and I put out uh I've got a Jake decoy here and a hen decoy. And afternoon hunts, that's what I do. I I set up decoys, a couple of decoys, and just sit back and I do more watching instead of calling. And uh that's what I did. I had them all set out, and I actually sat for about three hours, even uh could I'm gonna say a little better than three hours, um, you know, waiting them out, and every now and then I would yelp like um three, four, maybe five times, but no more no more than that. Um then I'd wait for a half an hour, two quarters of an hour before I ever did it again. So I only called like a few times. Um and I was to the point where I was just about ready to say, you know what, I've had enough of this, uh, time to go home, get something to eat. And uh I was just about ready to get up, and I spotted a hen come out in the field uh down to my right. Uh so I watched her, and I was hoping that maybe a gobbler was you know hanging around with her, and uh there wasn't. Um I happened to turn to my left and I noticed four hens walking in the same field uh to my left, and one of the hens started the elf a little bit, and sure, lo and behold, I heard a gobble, and I wasn't sure just where I'd heard it, but I heard it, and it only gobbled once. And I'm gonna say it was probably five minutes later he comes into the field strutting and carrying on to these four hens, and so I yelped a couple of times on the mouth call out the window, and uh when he gobbled back, he answered me. So I sat quiet and I waited and waited. He got a little closer and a little closer, and um yeah, I I was calling a little bit, yeah, and he's coming, and he seen that Jake and decided that uh he was you know going to get rid of that Jake uh away from his hands. So he came right to the Jake T decoy and it was about a 15-yard shot. Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it worked out pretty good then. Yeah. Uh when when you're putting out decoys, do you often or ever put out a full strut, Tom?
Afternoon Decoys Light Calling And Patience
SPEAKER_00Can I don't. Okay. Um over the years, I'll be honest, I really haven't had a whole lot of success with Jake decoys. Um, I don't know what it is about this one that I got, but it seems to work fairly good. Um, and it's just uh it's an Avian X decoy. Um it's not a strutter, it's just kind of standing there, if you know what I mean. Yep. Um and just since I've been having success with that decoy, I've been using it. But really myself, I've learned that over the years, uh Jake decoy is good for the first couple of weeks, but then I'll drop it. I'll drop it and stop using it because uh, you know, once they get hunted a bit with other hunters, everybody's got Jake decoys, they start to learn pretty quick that that red that they see that don't go good with them. So um, yeah, they tend to stay away from the the jakes. So, you know, I'll just use like a plain hen, like a feeding hen is what I really like.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. Yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I'm always curious about that about what people decide to use for for decoys and and the luck that they've had with with what.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, the Jake decoy I got right now, I wish I knew exactly what it was, I'd tell you, but I really don't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but I have killed in the last couple of years more uh gobblers with that Jake decoy than I have in my whole career turkey hunting.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really? Wow. So this thing's yeah, it's the golden ticket.
SPEAKER_00It's working like you wouldn't believe. Yeah. So and I have a I have a YouTube channel, so uh like I've got uh kills on the YouTube channel with this decoy, and uh yeah, they just come right to it. So yeah, it's been it's been well worth uh carrying it around.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. What's your uh what's your YouTube channel? I have to check it out after this.
SPEAKER_00Um Adrian J. Hare. Yep. And that will that will come up, yeah. So perfect.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I mean, yeah, that uh that wraps up a incredibly great spring for you. Uh I'm glad you're able to come on the podcast and kind of talk about it because after seeing the pictures and stuff, I'm like, oh that's uh that's pretty neat. So um yeah, you probably are tired after the uh the marathon.
YouTube Channel Plug And Closing
SPEAKER_00I I've enjoyed uh chatting with you, that's for sure. And uh yeah, it wears me down, it really does. And I'm actually a contractor by trade, so I gotta get back to work here, so I can't uh the fund's gotta stop sooner or later, you know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it always does. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, again, thanks, thanks so much for uh for taking the time. And I know you're out this morning and everything busy, but uh it was yeah, it was great chatting with you and and just hearing uh hearing out your your story from the spring.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well great chatting with you, Ken, and all the best on your trip to to Maine. Uh I am be. I'd love to hunt the Maine at some point too myself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I'm really uh really looking forward to it. I think we've got a got a great guy we're going with, and he said there's lots of birds in the area. We're gonna be in uh Augusta.
SPEAKER_00So Oh, cool, cool. Good.