Ep.124 Bird Dogs, Brook Trout, Fly Rods And A Redneck Hippie

Fly fishing has a weird power when you finally slow down enough to feel it: the sound of current, the rhythm of a cast, and that moment your brain stops sprinting. Ken Marr sits down with guide Erik Roach for a candid, funny, and surprisingly deep talk that moves from bird dogs and grouse woods lessons to the mental health side of wading a river. Erik calls himself a “redneck hippie,” and he explains why his favorite kind of guiding is not about ego or money, it is about helping people find peace outdoors.

We get practical for beginners, too. Erik breaks down fly fishing myths and why you do not need expensive gear to start catching fish, especially if you buy used, keep your setup simple, and practice on your local water. We also talk working dogs and upland hunting reality: why some breeds are a full time job, how to think about energy levels and home life, and why the best training is simply taking your dog hunting. From there we jump into grouse hunting fundamentals, including positioning in thick cover, ethical shot choices, and a straightforward way to think about gun fit.

The conversation turns serious around conservation in New Brunswick. We talk striped bass controversy, Atlantic salmon challenges, invasive species, habitat, headwaters, buffer zones, and why hunters and anglers lose ground when we fight each other online instead of protecting the water and woods we all share. If you care about fly fishing, bird dogs, upland hunting, outdoor mentorship, and real world conservation, this one will stick with you.

Subscribe so you do not miss what’s next, share this with a friend who needs an excuse to get outside, and leave a review with your answer: what outdoor ritual helps you reset?

Check us out on Facebook  Hunts On Outfitting, or myself Ken Marr. Reach out and  Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!

Transcript

Welcome To Hunts On Outfitting

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Hunts on this is Hunts on Outfitting Podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, Ken Meyer. I love everything hunting, the outdoors, and all things associated with it. From stories to how-tos, you'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, how's everyone doing? Thank you for tuning in to this week's podcast. As always, it's incredibly appreciated. So this week I'm talking with Eric Roach. Eric and I, we normally I have an agenda on this podcast when I have somebody on, but once in a while we just talk. And this is one of those ones. Eric and I talk about all kinds of stuff, but mainly his two passions, and that's running bird dogs, upland hunting, and fly fishing. Eric is such a great guy. He even brought me my very first, my very own fly fishing ride when he came out here. And uh, Eric, if you're listening to this, I know you will be. I've been practicing. I have been practicing. I'm getting some of the techniques down. I still got a long, long ways to go. Um, but I'm having a lot of fun doing it, so I really appreciate it. So also bear in mind, Eric and I both have um a touch of ADHD. So we do bounce around a little bit on this podcast, but uh I think you guys are gonna really enjoy it and you'll still be able to follow along, so stay tuned. We're just having a great outdoors conversation. Also,

Sponsors And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Eric and I are gonna be talking about some working dogs in this. And if you've got a working dog, if you've got a couch potato even, any dog, you want to feed them the best and you want them to be happy and healthy and enjoy the food that they're eating, but also have that food good and suitable for their body. Well, a nookshuk dog food is gonna help you do that. Whether your dog is super high active and you get their high active, high energy blend, or it's a lower active dog and you have just their easy 2616 blend just for really good health and maintenance, whether you're looking for marine, are you looking for other locally sourced natural ingredients in Nookshoks, got it for you. All different stages, all different sizes, all different activity levels. Check out a Nookshuk Dog Food. And it's summertime. A lot of you guys and gals might be putting out um minerals and things like that for your deer. Please check out uh Pro Expedition. Pro Expedition products, their scents and their lures and their minerals, they work great. I'm telling you, I'm saying this from experience, they actually do work. And uh this summer I've been putting some of the minerals out for the deer, and it just kind of helps good inventory on them and stuff. So uh just something to check out. And um I think you guys will be happy if you have your cameras out right now, what you're gonna find on there because of their products and hooligan archery products, you don't want to be caught with your pants down when fall comes here and you've got to get going for you know your fall hunts, whether you're hunting deer, moose, elk, bear, whatever it is, hooligan archery products, they're gonna hook you up, they get everything you need, and we're gonna hook you up here at this podcast because if you use code HUNTSON2026, all caps, all one word, you're gonna save yourself some money at the checkout. So just a little something to keep in mind. Um, and then for you Canadians, the Canadian access to firearms, uh it's an in-print magazine sent straight to your house. It's gonna tell you all the good stuff that's going on in Canada with guns. It's not a lot of good stuff, but uh there's uh there's a little bit. There's gonna tell you about gun shows, it's gonna tell you about laws that we're trying to get rid of, uh, it's gonna tell you about optics, where to buy them, it's gonna give you some deals, guns, ammo, accessories, uh, knives. It's all gonna be in there. Uh so let's uh let's get chatting with Eric. Oh, and if you were looking to get a hold of us to maybe come on the podcast or suggest somebody for it, or just reach out to me, you can email me, hunts on outfitting at gmail.com, or you can find us on Facebook, Hunts on Outfitting, or find myself on there, Kenmeyer. Feel free to reach out. Some of you guys have been, it's been great talking with you from all over.

The Redneck Hippie Mindset

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Eric, super happy to have you in person here on the podcast, because you know, I do a lot of phone calls and it's a necessary part of this podcast, but when someone can come in person, I love it.

SPEAKER_06 4:59

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, so um we'll get into uh we're gonna talk about everything, but we'll get into you told me this before you described yourself as a redneck hippie. And I was like, you know, that's cool, that's unique. So how would you uh how would you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_06 5:14

Well, I mean, I I guess I just love being outdoors and I like taking care of people. So my whole business motto is if I can get somebody out on the water, I'm not really concerned about making money. I'm just trying to guide people into find a better way. And I think fly fishing, especially, more so than hunting, is uh good medicine for people. So I kind of just have an easy approach to getting people outdoors and hopefully help them find some peace in the crazy world that's you know pretty fast paced. And you know, the redneck hippie, I guess. Well, dad used to joke about it because he's a Willie Nelson fan. Yeah, so you know, we like doing outdoor stuff, but we're not like you know, alpha male types, we're more just laid back, we just want to go have fun and uh you know, maybe not quite like potheads like Willie Nelson, but you know what I mean? Like we we certainly enjoy having a good time and you know not taking ourselves too seriously in that too, yeah. So I mean, unfortunately, we lost dad last year, but taking people out with my father was kind of like an experience in itself. Like uh, I don't think you'd meet a guy that truly hunted grouse as hard as he did, but then outside of hunting was so laid back. Like to see him put on his you know Superman cape, if you will, for hunting, his hunter's orange, going from a guy who was never phased to getting pretty worked up chasing a bird. That was his thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

That was his thing. Was that your first introduction to hunting? Because we're gonna talk about your fly fishing and everything. You've got you've got a working dog, right? You do some guiding for grouse mostly. So do you have a is it a Britney?

SPEAKER_06 6:44

No, so when I was at Hanscom's, we ran Britney's. Okay, yeah. Uh I did that once out of university in 2012, and then again last year, which was a good uh a good break from everything for me with what was going on. So I uh really sh uh really appreciate what Ralph did for me there. Um, but I have a lab. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Uh I'm a lab guy through

Picking The Right Working Dog

SPEAKER_06 7:05

Yeah. I was a Britney guy before I was a lab guy, but then I just realized family dog. Listen, if you want a hunting dog, but you're not sure how much time you have to commit, yeah, a lab is the only answer. You could train a lab dude just about anything. You don't see German short hair pointers running around airports. You might, but typically it's a lab or a shepherd, right? I mean, there's a reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

I like that. I what you saying if you don't know how much time you're gonna hunt, because like I've as you've seen when you got here, I have hands and those things, it's not negotiable.

SPEAKER_06 7:32

No, you have to work these dogs, yeah. And they're bred for that. So, you know, people get in over their heads with working dogs of all sorts, like they get German shepherds and expect them to be couch potatoes. Well, you you can't do that. You can't take, you know, I would suggest a British lab versus an American field lab if you're you know a slower-paced person. Um, just their demeanor is a little easier. Americans are a little more pumped up, blockier head on them too. The British, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, they're because I haven't seen a lot of them, but I I do know the look, the distinct look that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Yeah, and they shorter legs too.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, yeah, they almost look overweight. Some of them are probably, but yeah, they're just built a little blockier.

SPEAKER_06 8:12

They're a lot of overweight labs, and that's again to my point. Know what your personality type is before you go purchase a dog.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_06 8:20

Um, you know, these guys that are running these wire hairs and these German short hairs, that's a full-time job. As cool as those dogs are, I'm not knocking them. But a lot of people I find they get into this, and I'm not knocking anybody, I really don't want to put anybody's lifestyle down, but they all think they're gonna be field trial experts. Yeah, and then they don't work these dogs, and if they do do the field trials, they're only getting them out like two times a year on birds. I know it's like, well, what you gotta get your dogs out doing the job. It's like you wouldn't go spend a hundred hours a year practicing hockey and then never sign up when it came winter, right? And that's what I feel a lot of people are doing, you know, with these hunting dogs is they're training them, and then they might only get out twice a year. It's like, well, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, the most important thing is to take your dog hunting. Everything else you do after is to increase their skill set, but to you gotta play the games, you can't just practice, you know. It's like Alan Iverson. We're talking about practice, yeah. You know, and so I I laugh at that, and I I truly think though that if you don't know what you're doing, start with a lab because at worst you're gonna have a great pet.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 9:26

At best, you're gonna have a good hunting dog.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 9:28

And you may get that with the wire here, but I'm telling you what, man, I watch Wes's videos, man, and he's working them dogs in the winter on a bicycle.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

You've got to, he was saying that you've you've absolutely have to. Yeah. Wesley Tebow, yeah. Um with Marchamilko. I mean, those things, it's like a hound, kind of like you've got to you've got to get the work in. It's like, and it's good too, because I've got some buddies that have the Chesapeake Bay retriever.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

I guess they're stubborn.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, well, they're not pets. No. Both the both guys that I know that have them, they're told me that right from the start. They're like, they're not pets, they're strictly hunting dogs, but know that, right? Going into it. And they knew that, but I'm sure there's some people that didn't. But uh I love I love talking dogs, talk about that forever.

SPEAKER_06 10:06

Man, dogs are the best, they're better than people.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, I

Fly Fishing Without The Price Tag

SPEAKER_00 10:10

do, I do love my dogs. So um, so you you you got into the guiding and all that through for the dogs, but your main your real passion you'd say is on the water.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

Yeah, so when I got out of high school, sports ended. I I tried to go play university ball, it's due, and then I blew up my knee, and then that was kind of the end of athletics for me. I mean, really, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm not even 5'10 playing basketball against grown men that are you know six foot four, six foot, like you know, I had my peak in high school, and then that was it. So then it was kind of like, what am I gonna do other than party, which I took a little too seriously, too. So if there's anybody listening, please stay away from that and get into fishing instead. It'll save you a lot of money and a lot of headache. You you think it'd save you money? Oh, yeah. The fishing? Oh, well, if you do it responsibly and you don't go on Instagram and look at what's trending for gear, you could you don't have to spend thousands of dollars, and that's a really big myth about fly fishing. And there's some good quality stuff out there, but you can spend a lot of money in guns, trapping, like you can waste your money.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah. Well, all right. Well, speaking about it, it doesn't have to cost a lot. Let's say what you know, what you showed up at my door with today, which I'm so appreciative of.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

Oh, yeah, the Berkeley. Yeah, so that was a yard sale fine. Lord knows when that was made, but there's nothing wrong with that fly rock.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I love the history look of that fly rock. You know, it looks really it's got some stories.

SPEAKER_06 11:27

Well, that's the thing. Like, you don't know, and you're gonna add stories to it, hopefully. You are in a beautiful area to fly fish. Like again, I thought you were from Havelock, which isn't far from here, 10 minutes to my fire miss. Yeah, but like when I was looking at the water shit on the map to try to figure out where to send you to fish, I wasn't looking down here. Like that pedacodiak system is there's some nice water that flows into that.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:49

Well, it looks like you know, I hate to put down somebody's river, but down towards Moncton, it never looked good when it was all that brown soup, right? So you don't realize that up here in the headwaters, it's it's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, I've got a buddy into it a bit Denver, and he got into fly fishing because he bought uh this house, and right behind him is the Kennebaces. Oh, so then Denver he took up fly fishing, right?

SPEAKER_06 12:08

And he does it every single night because that's how you get really good. If you can find your local river, and I mean he's lucky it's the Kennebaces. I mean, some of us only get pickerel rivers or trout rivers. So you're talking about me getting into fly fishing. So in university, my only real fishing at the time was we go to Juniper every year with dad at a camp with his old buddies and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

So for those listening, could we get people listening from all over all over the world? Uh would you scribe that northern that is almost dead center, really? Yeah, you know, I guess it's not northern, really, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Well, to most people it is because you know, most of us live south of the province, but it's it's getting pretty dead center. And if you were in Juniper and there wasn't gates on the roads from all the forestry, right? You could get pretty well anywhere in the province from Juniper. You could get the plaster off. Oh, yeah. It really is, and it's changing all the time. Um, but the deer are coming back there actually. Because when my dad brought the camp in the 80s, there was no moose. It was all deer. Like, if you've seen a moose in Juniper when he bought the camp, it was like it's a big thing. Really?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

And so when I think of that area, I think of moose.

SPEAKER_06 13:14

Well, you know, I don't know if it's due to the practices. Like, there's a lot of well, I can say this for certain.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I think it is logging practice.

SPEAKER_06 13:21

Well, it is because there used to be a deer yard up in Wapske, uh, which is outside of Plaster Oak, New Brunswick. If you guys need to go online and Google it, you can do that. Um, but they cut a cedar swamp marsh, and the deer used to travel all the way, as far as I know, from Kedswick Ridge. I heard now I could be a little off, but they actually call her deer back in the day, and they know this for a fact that they used to winter up there. So, what happens is in the late 90s, we had in early 2000s, because I remember sledding in it as kids, we used to go down the driving range of the golf course with that freezing rain. We'd have like five inches thick freezing rain with the GTs, dude. Yeah, and we used to do these GT wars where we crash into each other and jump off like a bunch of hooligans. So, well, as fun as it was for me as a kid, it was really bad for the rough grouse, yeah, super bad for the deer. So you add really rough winters, you cut their cedar swamp, yeah, and then the coyotes come because you're starving because you have nothing to eat. Because that's apparently I heard this on another podcast. In Maine, they were saying the coyotes wait in a deer yards until March. I can see weaker.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

So they they collar them there and everything because I got a lot of friends in Maine, and then uh one of them actually shot a collared coyote. He um he was able to get it all taxidermed and stuff, but uh, it's interesting they can tell so many things like that. Like here in New Brunswick, I'm gonna say we dropped the ball big time as far as doing studies on stuff. I find like do you know of anything being collared right now or anything like that?

SPEAKER_06 14:43

Well, I heard a rumor that a guy shot a turkey and got caught because it was chipped. Now I don't know if that's just I don't know. I heard that, and I was like, man, I don't know. I don't know, but that's pretty funny though. If somebody shows up to your house, you're like, hey man, I'm here for the turkey shot. He's like, I don't got no turkeys. Like, yeah, you do. Like that's the story I heard, but yeah, I I can't I can't validate that, but I thought I'd get a laugh out of it anyways. But uh no, I don't think we do enough research, and uh we can get into the converse, uh the conservation side of things and what I think we should be doing in this province later, because I know we were trying to get to the redneck hippie and me fly fishing and all that.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

We might both have ADHDs, which is a warning for the uh listeners that listen, man.

SPEAKER_06 15:20

If you if you're not a fan of the squirrel brain, I would suggest you uh tune off now and save yourself some stress. But um, so the fly fishing was really cool because I had a void. So between hunting grouse with my father, so I'd wake up after partying for like all night and like you couldn't miss the bus. That was a big thing with us. Like if you didn't show up in the morning, like you missed the bus, you weren't going hunting. Like dad's like, you missed the bus, you ain't coming. All right. So I never missed the bus. Yeah, and um, so we'd go and like I skipped class. I mean, I hunted a lot, like me and dad were just like we're like best friends, too. So we spent a lot of time in the grousewoods, and uh, and then in Juniper, you have to fly fish. So I had to eventually learn to fly fish. I actually didn't want to, I thought it was for elite rich people that came from the states, you know, that's what you think. That's what you see down here sometimes, yeah. And so I'm still convinced to this day that the fly fishing only rules in this province stem from some local guys fishing while some millionaire came back in the 1900s and was getting outfished, and he told the politicians, hey, I can't have these guys outfishing me, so they made they ban worm fishing. I don't know if it's true, but that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Because five fish is five fish, no matter how you catch it, with your limits. So I never could understand why that's a thing, because it takes access away from people, but on the flip side, conservation-wise, if it keeps people out of the rivers, the fish are gonna grow better too, right? So, like I I look at it both ways, but that was my attitude when I started. But then once you get into fly fishing, there's uh a mental health aspect, a healing, you're in the water versus bank fishing. I truly think there's a magic or medicine to waiting in a river.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:02

And people listening, if you haven't done it, you you really can't understand it. And I'm again the redneck hippie thing. Well, uh, you know, I like you know being the way I am and and stuff, but there's like a hippie side to it too. You know what I mean? Like you're out in the woods, you're doing your thing, but then there's like this peaceful harmony thing that until you've experienced it, you can't understand it. Yeah, and it becomes a way of life. It it really does. And I would encourage people to take it up. It's kind of like mix of yoga and fishing. I don't know. It's it's it can be relaxing.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Well, well, speaking about relaxing, just good for

Heroes Mending On The Fly

SPEAKER_00 17:36

your mental health and all that. You told me about this this group that you're doing some stuff with that I didn't even know about the uh oh the uh heroes mending on the fly. Yeah, so that's cool. Tell me a little bit about that. I have not heard of that.

SPEAKER_06 17:47

Well, so it used to be called Project Healing Waters, and like I was saying, they had a split, and I don't know what caused it, so they changed the name in Canada to Heroes Mending on the Fly, which I like because it mending is something you do in fly fishing. It's so like if you're letting your line drift down, for instance, you would flick your rod to the right and it would you mend the line to change the presentation, if you will, of the way it drifts. It's uh used a lot for like nymph fishing and stuff. And again, my ADHD, I just throw the fly out, fish streamers and big flies and strip it and try to get a reaction. I have to learn to mend it.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Well, I'm excited about learning more with fly fishing, like we're doing there. Just you're always moving and stop.

SPEAKER_06 18:26

It's better if people think I had fun. I had fun out there. So people think that it's gonna be harder and it's gonna be if they have no patience, it's actually better because you're doing something all the time rather than waiting. But this hero's mening on the fly, so it's super cool. I always want to get involved. I'm from Oromocto, so you know, growing up in a military community, you see a lot of people go through the you know, when I was growing up, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Because I think is it for those listening, is it Canada's largest base is engaged in the United States. It's the largest training area for sure.

SPEAKER_06 18:53

I don't know the largest personnel per se.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

No, but I think it's the largest training base of the British uh Commonwealth Commonwealth. Yes, yeah. So we have US guys down here all the time and all over. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:07

So you've seen a lot of that growing up, especially at the height of the Afghan war, people's parents, brothers, you know, you see that, and then I of course I went through my own struggles there in my 20s, and you know, I'm good now, but fly fishing was a big part of finding my healing. So I always want to give back to people because I'm like, hey, if it works for me and the minor stuff that I've had happen in my life, like what could it do for somebody else? So this year at Yugo, um, Joe from uh from Heroes Manning on the Fly was there. He's running it and he was looking for licensed guides, and I'm like, great. So I signed up along with Jared, who we were talking about, who wants to come on with us and do a show. He was pretty ecstatic. So I just shout out to him.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, we'll give him a shout-out too. And Jared does guiding, and you've done some guiding for him. It's called what again?

SPEAKER_06 19:50

Uh A and I guiding. A and I guiding. Yeah, and so uh after his daughters, I I can't remember the names, though, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Um but he just had some, yeah, Jared's doing great with that. And if you're looking to do some some excellent fishing in New Brunswick.

SPEAKER_06 20:01

If you want to catch Sturgeon, he's your guy. Like there's a couple other guides too, but I'm not gonna like throw shade at him right now after I say his name. So call Jared. Um, there's a we have a plethora of wonderful guides in the province. We do, we love it. There's no shortage of good people that again, they kind of have the redneck hippie thing going. They get that life's fast and that there's more important things than money, and you know, and that's kind of the whole thing. You you know, you want somebody who lives life when you pay for a guide.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And you want somebody, I've realized this too. Most guides I've met are are are great, but I've met a few where their people skills are just a bit off, you know, and and Jared, Jared's awesome. Jared is awesome. There's some guys out there that aren't, and it's just it's it's it's a really as far as knowing your animals and everything that you're going after, I think it's just as important to have those people skills. It is there's a couple that I know that it's like well, you can say that about me too.

SPEAKER_06 20:49

I'm not gonna sit here and knock people because my yeah, my people skills are good if you're overtly friendly and excitable, but like there's some people where you have to tone it down for you got to know your crowd. And my social cues aren't great. So, you know, you get a hundred percent full throttle when I because as calm as I try to be, it's like I get excited when there's birds on the ground, or I get excited where I know there's fish. Like, I can't turn that part down. Yeah, like when we get into it, I am more excited for you and my friends that come with me. Most of my guiding has really been just taking people out from friends and stuff. Like I did do, like we've talked, I've done some guiding, but really I just want to get people out.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

You hope you get fun people because yeah, this year in Maine is funny. So the guy I went with, he heard the podcast and all that, Zach. Awesome guy. And um we end up setting a hunt with him, he gave me a great deal on it, and he was like, You guys are so much fun. Me and my buddy John Wagner, so you guys are so much fun to have and all that. I'm like, hopefully, everyone's like this, but they might not, because remember my buddy called me, he's like, How's the guy? I'm like, Oh, good as word, he called each other gay, like the first days of just joking around. But yeah, I said, You're not gonna get that with everybody.

SPEAKER_06 21:55

No, you know, you're not, and and I got fortunately with being thrown into. To the pheasant guiding world at a young age. Like I was there, I hunted at 16. You learned different things. I've learned, I've watched, I've watched some really good guides. And those guys are good because they understand how to read people, which is still something I'm working on. So if you're not interested in having a hyper redneck hippie who's trying to be calm and teach people on the water, just don't call me. There's you can call Ken, you can call some other outfitters, but like I'm not your guy. If you want to have fun and you know have a good time and just be in a joy being outside, then yeah, give me a shout. But you know, there is plenty of outfitters here in the province that can meet people's needs, and yeah, there's someone for everyone. There is, you know what I mean? Like it really is. And uh, but no, there's there this uh heroes thing, it's really cool too because it's not just veterans. Back to that. I get so sidetracked, my goodness. You do a podcast and you realize how bad you are staying on top of it helping with it. No, it's it's cool. So it's for first responders, it's for so you know, retired RCMP, or I don't know if they do current or not. I'm sure they do. Um, I I just don't want to speak out of term because I'm just getting involved and I'm really I really enjoy teaching uh and sharing the knowledge. So they do fly tying night and it's Canada wide, like there's chapters across Canada. So I'm just here based at Oromocto. It's growing in the province pretty quick. There's a lot of interest. Um, and I think it's good that it's a not just two veterans, but also EMTs and people who are you know on the front lines here at home. So I think it's really important, and I think those are the people who need something to um decompress because fishing it's a tough job. Well, it is, and you know, fishing allows you to turn everything off. I find hunting the difference between why I like fishing more and hunting. Like if you were to ask me what what are you best at? It's grouse hunting, there's no question. But I enjoy fishing more because it's a bigger learning process, you're never not learning, and everything shuts off when you're in a brook. I don't know what it is. Now, some people might be a lake, some people might be a river. Me, I like tight quarter brooks, maybe because it's like grouse hunting and it's kind of like something I'm familiar with, but it's very intimate when you're in a brook, and everything shuts off for me, which is good because, like you said, the ADHD squirrel brain, yeah, I talk a lot. You you get out fishing with me, you'd think I was mad at you. I don't talk. Really? When I'm guiding, I do because I'm instructing and I don't want to be boring. Yeah, yeah. And I'm trying like you get certain clients out, they know just as much as you. Now you're just waiting for them to get a fly in a tree and get it out for them. But when you're teaching, you don't want to overwhelm somebody, but you also don't want to make them think that you're mad.

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:29

Or that's how I would see it if somebody was quiet the whole time. I was like, does this guy think I suck? Or, you know, did I upset him? Or and I so you want to make sure that people feel at ease. But I truly believe that this program is gonna do a lot of good for people, and I'm really proud to be involved in it. And I want to continue uh putting my time into it because I do think it has value, and then not to say that these charities that help veterans and other people get out hunting aren't good, but I just think the medicine is really potent. Like, you know what I mean? It's more than Advil, like I think it's more like the elieve of you know, um, of the world, and I think there's a lot of good medicine in it. And that's why when you know I I came up with the fly rod because I was like, man, the amount of opportunities you're gonna get if you take up fly fishing, like those I bet you those guys there that you had on there, the was there three or four of them. Uh well, there's three in studio and then one had called. Yeah, those guys were riot, and I think everybody deserves a group of friends like that because those friends are the ones that you're gonna keep in touch with all year, yeah, and you're gonna build something to look forward to

Mentorship And Outdoor Traditions

SPEAKER_06 25:30

in life, right? Like if you go fishing once or twice a year and you have a really crappy job that stresses you out, knowing you have that trip coming out. Yeah, and people need that. And I I find people without hobbies, like, man, no wonders you got mental health, you know. Like if you're going through stuff, well, shoot, you got no you got no real break or anything to look forward to. I'd be pretty sad too. Yeah, and that's why I say like grouse hunting with dad, you know, was my priority while he was alive. Like, I had a friend of mine, shout out to Kenny. He he seen that me and dad were tight, I guided it with him up at Ralph's, and uh he was tight with his dad, and he said, You're gonna want to spend as much time with your dad as you can. I said, Yeah, he's like, make sure you do. And I took his words like and I took them seriously. And I'm so glad I did, because man, like, there's no better bond. And mentorship's important, and that was another thing I want to talk about. Was if you know somebody that maybe's getting into it, take them out because you don't know what gift you might be giving him. Yeah, or her. A lot of good uh a lot of good outdoors women in this province too. Yeah, well, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, I've got there's a there's a young guy who's actually up for a podcast the other night and stuff, and um, yeah, he's showing an interest in him. I'm like 100%, man. I'll take you. I got him a duck call, got him a turkey call, teaching them how to use that. It's like, I mean, yeah, anyone, anyone that's it, I don't the thing about hunting and all that, I don't expect everyone to be into it. I just don't want them against it. But if anyone's curious about it, 100%, I'll bring you out.

SPEAKER_06 26:56

Yeah, being against stuff you don't understand, and I mean I could be a hypocrite here because there's lots I don't, and then I judge quick, and then that's again the whole hippie thing. I'm trying to be a better human being here, like watch what I say, bite my tongue, which I've never been good at. But um, I really wish people would understand that hunting's good for the environment because if there's no interest in the animals, we'll lose them. Like people don't understand that. Like in Africa, they save the lions by hunting them.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, well that's that's yeah, that's a whole thing. Instead of them being poaching, right? Everything's gonna have a monetary value on it too to be kept. It does.

SPEAKER_06 27:27

And unfortunately, I wish it didn't have to be that way. Um, but it is. And you know, like how many people do you think give a crap about rough grouse unless they hunt them? Except for the odd bird watcher.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Right.

SPEAKER_06 27:37

Do you think anybody really cares?

SPEAKER_00 27:39

I don't know any bird I don't know many bird watchers, but uh I got a couple clients that feed them and watch them, but they don't leave their house. Yeah, but most bird watchers are looking for like your more exotic kind of birds, you know.

SPEAKER_06 27:49

Have you noticed more cardinals around? Uh so home, like they like I don't remember them being around as a kid. There's a lot more of them now. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. We don't have many around here, but um sorry, you said exotic bird, that's what I thought of. Like not like a dodo. Oh, it's dead, but what would be an exotic bird like a macaw? Yeah, well, that's real exotic, but uh imagine hunting those. How would you miss bright colors? It'd be brighter than a pheasant.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

How would you how would you lure them in? Just talking to them, I guess. Oh my god. A bunch of crackers. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, we're gonna do a podcast sometime on that about the importance, uh, this sidetrack too, about the importance of trophy hunting. Because trophy hunting is what protects animals more than anything.

SPEAKER_06 28:28

People don't get that. That term, unfortunately, it's like a term that's been along too around too long. It gets a negative connotation. Um, trophy hunting is actually what saved all the animals in America because they started going for big horns. They used to be uh, you know, they used to be market hunters, right? And so people don't understand that because that's when the Boone Crockett Club came out and the things. Yeah, like was it which Roosevelt was it? Yeah, it was Teddy. Yeah, I was pretty sure it was Teddy, but I didn't want to misspeak. But uh, I mean, shout out to him because you know now the downside to them was they shot everything out, and all their hunters came here and kind of shot out all our stuff in New Brunswick. We have quite a heritage here of outdoor guiding, and again, it's kind of why I want you to have a fly rod. You're gonna be doing this, that's part of our heritage, and it's a special heritage. And uh again, I could get into the conservation of fish in this province, but uh, we'll talk about that a bit. But uh no, the mentorship's really important. Like, I can remember as a kid, like how cool I thought it was to be a hunter. Like, dad would come in his little red ranger just in kindergarten. I can remember running out to that truck, he'd throw the hunting hat on me. There'd be tin bits, as much junk. Yeah, so if you guys want to know how to make a kid an outdoors person, just Timbits or Mrs. Dunsters, actually, because it's local and they're better now. That's what we switched to as I got older. But Miss Dunster donuts, chips, get the kids so it's the most fun you can have. Don't worry about it. Like, my dad should have left me in the woods, man. I used to honk the horn if I didn't go in the cover with him. If he was more than 10 minutes, I started blowing on the horn. That he should have beat me black and blue, man. He really should have, but he had the patience in mentoring me, you know, it made my life worth living. Yeah, you know, doing this hunting and this fishing. So the fly fishing, he didn't really like he got me trout fishing, that was it. Like he I was trying to teach him to fly fish at the end, and it was his Shakespeare rod like was the culprit. It was the worst fly rod. Like, there's some good Shakespeare's out there, but this one was not one of them. Yeah, it he might as well have been out there with a like a great big piece of pine tree, just throwing it around like Fred Flintstone. It was terrible rods. So by the end of it, I kind of got him a little dialed in, but yeah, I don't think he was gonna be the next Lee Wolf by any means. Or but yeah, so that mentorship, if you can give that to somebody, now obviously it's different between a father and a son, or actually, I had a guy I guided, his mother taught him to hunt, actually. Okay, yeah, and I thought that was super cool. She was a single mom and she taught him to hunt. I'm like, that's dope. Yeah. And you know, we uh we do have actually I was out fit guiding a guy from the the heroes, and uh we were in junction, and there was like a lot of people there because it was right under the bridge there. Uh there was like three, like I don't know if they were single moms, uh, but there was three women with their kids there. And I'm like, wow. I'm like, this is cool, man. Like, you know, you wouldn't have seen that in the 90s. You'd like not that I I don't ever remember going to the wharfs and or Mokto and stuff. It was always like dad and boys, so now you're seeing the evolution of it, and I think it's important because you know, we need as many people in the outdoors, and you know, like it shouldn't, it shouldn't be relegated to just men. I think that's stupid. Like, you know, these boys' clubs thing, like, man, like you you want to go somewhere and hang out with a bunch of dudes, like you know. Bring the women, bring the women. Like, I don't have a problem now, you know. If if it starts, you know, you start hitting on buddy's wife or something, there might be a problem. But you know, uh, other than that, no, I think you know, and my sister used to go hunting with dad too. Now, she never took an interest in the in the taking of an animal, but she loved going out, and Melanie was like a magnet for all game. Like, if you wanted, if there was one giraffe that lived in New Brunswick and you want to see it, you'd have to take my sister, you'd see it. Like she was just a magnet. Oh, you'd see bear, moose, cranes in the middle of the road, like things you shouldn't see where they, you know, they shouldn't. It was just wild every time Melanie went out. So it's probably maybe I should take her moose hunting. You know, honestly, if I get drawn, Melanie, you're coming. There's no uh no if, ands or buts about it. But so no, that was really important for me, the mentorship. And I just hope through this um this program with heroes, especially, that you know, I can maybe provide a small piece of what dad provided for me um to somebody else. And the same is with grouse hunting, too. Like I got friends that you know, they they maybe been out once or twice Hollywood hunting, but they don't really know how to get after them without a dog because again, kind of like fly fishing, you think it's for rich guys. A lot of people think you either need a bird dog that's a pointer, yeah. Or, you know, a lot of people take the stereotypes of the guys just driving around, you know, and just that bird stands there, which is fine if you Hollywood hunt. I've done it. Um, I personally like letting them get off the road and chasing them. The cat and mouse game is the most fun you can have. Like, that's a hunter to me. Like you're using now, it knows you're on it, yeah, and you're using your senses to try to one-up it. Um, so they're you know, getting people to learn covers and take them out and explain how they evade you, what they're gonna use, where they're gonna fly, how you're gonna double bump them, even triple bump them. Like, you know, you're not always gonna get a chance at a grouse, they are very fast. A lot of people think they're stupid birds, which they can be, but it's just like humans. There's dumb ones and there's smart ones, right? You know, and you you learn by getting lucky. Like if that person misses, that bird's educated. Yeah, you know, you gotta be good to be lucky and lucky to be good. That was one of my dad's uh one of my dads, he was a man of quotes and sayings. I like that one. Yeah, we can get into that later. He had some pretty money ones, but uh yeah, actually the one that sticks out was one of the last ones. I said, Dad, I said, Are we stupid? He said, What do you mean? I said, We dress up in all orange, spend thousands of dollars on gas a year to chase a little wood chicken. People must think we're dumb. And without a hesitation or a pause, he looks over, he goes, Yeah, but it's fun though. Like he didn't even flinch, you know what I mean? He's like, We're not having any of that negativity, Eric. Like, you know, he's oh dude, he was he was money.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Glass is always half full.

SPEAKER_06 34:14

Oh, that guy full. Yeah, he kept her full, he kept her topped up, man. And uh, you know, anybody who's hunted with him will will tell you that. And I'm uh hopefully you'll be able to come up and meet some of the guys. They uh they certainly loved it. It was weird this year without him. Uh we still had fun. Yep, and that was a big thing too. Like when he passed, I was just like, man, like, do I even want to do this anymore? The guiding for the well, not the guiding, just the bird hunting yeah. Well, I have maple, so I owe it to Maple to keep her hunting. But I was like, man, and all my buddies were like, we're going out and we're doing this. Was before I knew I was going back pheasant guiding. Uh, we're gonna get a hundred birds this year, we're gonna do this, we're doing it for Ricky. So their positive energy kept me really motivated, you know. Um, because it it's weird. Like, and you talk to elders and seniors, and uh, you know, would

Everglades Fish And Gators Up Close

SPEAKER_06 34:58

they a lot of them quit hunting when they lose their buddies? Like you get these 60, 70 year old guys, they lose a buddy, they stop fishing, they stop hunting. And again, you know, if I could dog, or dog, yeah. Oh, that I can see for sure. Um, you know, a lot of duck hunters stop.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I know I can think of a guy that was pretty hardcore into it, and yeah, his dog passed and he he quit.

SPEAKER_06 35:17

And the problem is with that is we age, our brains need. I took a bit of gerontology when I was at St. Thomas, and the big thing is if you slow down and stop doing what you love, that'll age you. That'll age you, and that's where Alzheimer's and you don't keep your brain sharp and dementia and all that, like you gotta keep your brain ticking and staying active. Well, movement is lubrication, and uh, you know, dad was a big believer in that. Like, he started working out in his 60s so he could hunt till he was 80. That was his goal.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Awesome.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

Yeah, like he was 70 years old keeping up with two 30-year-olds on the regular. So if you are an avid bird hunter and you want to know what the key is, is watch what you eat and stay in shape because you don't see too many big burly dudes in their 60s walking around the grousewoods. You just don't, yeah. And it'd be hard to if you were a big fat man, it'd be hard to climb up into a deer stand, too. Yeah. In your old days, them little things are rickety, man. Them metal deer. I don't know how people get up them and not make any noise with metal tree stands. Well, they go they go really early. Yeah, but you get itchy, you wiggle, and everything hears. Yeah, I don't know. But you know, that's a key to life. And I think if you want to be a successful grouse hunter and fly fisherman, you stay in shape. Give again, gives you a reason to stay in shape, like an athlete, right? So, not that I work, I work outside a landscape, so that's my gym.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That's hey, yeah. I I've had enough. It's like you farming, man. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, not paying for a gym membership.

SPEAKER_06 36:33

I probably should, but anyways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

The farming, yeah, the farming definitely does. Um, no, that's that's awesome. It like you said, it's so important to have something for people to look forward to. I mean, if you don't do anything in your whole life, but you know that once a year you're going on a fishing trip, you're gonna you want to go to that. Yeah, you want to keep going, keep working, keep doing stupid shit because like you know what? For this week, this year, we're going out fishing or hunting or whatever. You know, it it's people need you should have that.

SPEAKER_06 36:59

You should. It should be more than once a year, too. I think if you could do it for seasons, like you know what I mean? Like you like because some people really are busy with their jobs.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Like, you look I'm lucky, I'm able to go out.

SPEAKER_06 37:08

Well, I'm self-employed, I do what I want when I want, and that's always kind of been my attitude, like you know, um, which has been detriment sometimes, but um, you know, not everybody has that luxury. No, like you do shift work, you do, you know, you got three kids at a young age, like you know, it's gonna be hard if you especially if you want to get into it and you don't know because you got to invest money, and that's another thing about like gift giving. One thing I find about our culture is beautiful is that people acquire all this stuff, and then they want to see new people get in. Like, I've been handed uh a lot of stuff. That's how I got into fly tying in Nova Scotia. Was this guy I worked at uh I've done everything like kind of like low end though. Like I worked at Better Buy Sports, I'm a terrible salesman. I'm too honest. Yeah, I like they were trying to get me to sell like this is 2014, 2013. They're trying to get me to sell 25 back then, $25 bass lures to people. Bro, they're made in the same shop. A lure. You imagine oh, they're tournament lures. What's that mean? They came out of a different shop out of China. Yeah, like like I can't do that, man. Like, you know what I mean? But um, but I worked there and this guy kept seeing me buy flies. His name's Darien Adams. Shout out to you, you changed my life, man. Um, he got he said, Listen, I got a fly tying kit. I want to give you because you're you're ridiculous. You're spending all your paycheck here, bad. So he taught me how to tie a woolly bugger. Uh, but I taught myself, so I tie backwards. I tie like a lefty. Okay. And I'm right-handed. I tie towards my heart, I tell people. Apparently, you're supposed to tie away. I don't know if it makes a deal. Fish don't seem to notice, but I like the old timers get real mad at me. Really? Oh, yeah. They're like, you're tying backwards. I'm like, it's worse. It catches fish, but I mean, I'm glad it gives you something to talk about, but you know, and you know, they don't get mad per se, but they they definitely point it out because to them it seems so alien. But these are the same guys that would cast right-handed and then have their real right-handed. You know how yours was set up, you're using your left hand? Yeah, it's a lot more efficient that way. Yeah, they would switch their rods hands to reel in right-handed, but then if they have to strip, you're gonna take it's just more like I so they're saying I do it backwards. I think they all fish backwards, you know what I mean? So, but uh, some nice old vintage reels cannot be changed hands, and those some of those like young uh JW Young reels from England and stuff, like they're beautiful, and you might want to learn, or some of the old old hierarchies, you may want to learn to fish, yeah, you know, the old-fashioned way because they're just so nice, yeah. And yeah, like, but uh no, so anyways, I learned all through gift giving, I learned you know how to tie flies. I've had rods, reels given to me for cheap, and and you'll find a lot of that in that culture because people want you to go down, yeah, have the same experiences and if not better, right? Yeah, I don't want to see somebody go out, oh, you need like I remember this shop, their introduction rods were, and again, this is going back a few years ago, so now it might not seem like a lot of money, but an intro fly rod for like $400. That's a lot. Seems like a lot of well, that'd probably be like $600 in today's you know at least value of our dollars. So wow, what a big step when groceries are as expensive as they are to say you need to spend six hundred dollars to get started. No, I got all this used stuff, I got on the auctions bad last year. Like it was kind of like my coping mechanism. Yeah, so I got into auctions and I started, oh, I'm gonna buy and sell fishing shit. Yeah, man, bro. I can't sell nothing. I end up giving it away. You know what I mean? Like it is cool, like you know, whatever. I'm not I'm not hard up, so I can afford to do that and give gifts. And I think you get more out of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

I'll tell you, I I'm so appreciative if you bring that fly right up and show me like I'm gonna be using that. That's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_06 40:37

Well, I really want to see you get get some fish in, yeah. Fishing in. I seen you did the striper thing. Now we'll probably touch base on the stripers because there's a lot of controversy over them. So uh being in the our watersheds here, but uh Merri Machine's got a good fly fish. Like, if you fish above Red Bank Bridge, you have to fly fish. I don't know why you'd even go with tackle, man. Honest to God, the fight's so good on a fly rod, and it ain't hard to hook them. Like, literally, I was in a regular passenger kayak, like you know, or passenger kayak, just like a cruiser kayak. My buddy had a fishing kayak, so he was able to cast nice line out. I'm there, man. I look like I've never ever been in a kayak or fish because like I'm sunk low, I can barely get my rod out. So I couldn't figure out how to hook them. I'm like, man, like I gotta figure something out. I'm like, okay, I'll just paddle really fast and troll this line. Well, it started working, but the problem was my rod is stuck underneath my like crotch, and I'm trying to pick it up to set the hook backwards, and I'm trying not to roll in the kayak, but I managed to hook like a dozen in like an hour and a half, man. It's not bad. That worked, right? It worked, and you know what? If I can do it like that, anybody can go do it in a hopefully better equipment or a better floating vessel or whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

That's the thing about the fly fishing. I mean, uh, I was I guess I never really got into it because I was kind of like intimidated by it because it seems like there's a lot to it. What do you have to say? Because I mean, you think about just your regular spin rod, you just throw that out, spin in, no big deal. The fly fishing, it seems like there's a lot into it, and there's a big entry into it, but I mean, what do you have to say to that?

SPEAKER_06 42:02

Well, there is and there isn't. I mean, you know, if if you said, Eric, I'm going striper fishing, I'd give you I'd actually give you 30 pound tests because it's a little heavy. But if you did get into something or wind knots as you're learning, just different things, like things could happen, or if you hook the mother load and you, you know, there's a stick or it runs you somewhere, it's 30 pound, you're bulletproof, right? Um, I give you four or five flies, you know, the extra liter that's just like the spool I gave you, and you could go. That's it. That's all you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

It seems like there's way more to it than you can. Well, there is when you can look at yeah, it's like anything. You can make it as complicated as you want to do.

SPEAKER_06 42:36

Well, that's it. I mean, my goodness, I mean, you look at our tree.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:39

I mean, all you need is a stick, a string, and an arrow. And I mean, we've evolved it into basically Lord knows where it's gonna go next, but I like how many times can you reinvent the wheel? But they seem to find a way to market.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Oh, wider every year.

SPEAKER_06 42:51

Yeah, which is cool. Like, and I'm sure it does make a difference. But you know, I I kind of wonder where technology is making us weaker outdoorsmen.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Yeah, we we have a hot topics uh podcast that's gonna be coming out in a few weeks here about um about that, about like the use of cell cameras and stuff, and has that made us more reliant on stuff and has it made us worse woods less of woodsman.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Absolutely. I mean you can't it's like that in every s spectrum. Like look at mechanics now. You've got to be an electrician to work on a vehicle. Well, that's why they call them technicians. Yeah, not mechanics.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Right, but you know, so I mean yeah, I don't like the way that's going

Keep Gear Simple And Learn More

SPEAKER_00 43:30

with with ATV, side by sides, tractors, pickup trucks, cars, the electronic side of that. I don't like the way that's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 43:35

Well, I mean, if I can't fix my imagine they start doing that to my lawnmowers for my landscaping.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:40

Like if I can't, you know, I have a hard enough time anyways, because I'm not all that mechanically inclined. But if I can't change a belt because there's three computer chips, you know, and some of these electric, everybody's like, Oh, you should get electric equipment. You gonna fund it? Yeah. That stuff's expensive, man. Like it's holy geez, the batteries, like, they don't have the life for it. No, not commercially, you couldn't do it home. Homeowners, I will say this leaf blower battery leaf blowers are dope. If you're just a homeowner with a small yard, like please go that route. So I couldn't imagine my mother just reefing on a pole cord in her six. You know what I mean? Like that's a good way to get injured, you know what I mean? So I uh but yeah, I'm not a fan of it. And I think that's with hunting too. Like you got these guys with like therma cells basically now covering their scent. Dude, your grandfather was going out in blue jeans, reeking a whiskey and cigarettes and shooting bigger bucks than you. Like, at what point do we say, hey, like this is a not saying it doesn't work, but at what point do you really need to feel that you need to spend that money to be good? And it's the same with fly fishing, like that rod I gave you, you know, that's a flea market fine, but I could give you I think it's awesome. Well, I could give you a modern fiberglass rod, and for the average person, it's not gonna make a difference until you get to a certain level, and like you get these people going to Florida throwing line for carp tarpon, carpon, carp mix with a tarpon, but no, uh that's that's the big leagues.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, like that's well, since we're that's wild. Since we're jumping around here and everything, you were saying that you've gone fit fly fishing in Florida. Yeah, I did a little bit more. Tell me about that because that sounds really cool. So I got this job three years.

SPEAKER_06 45:07

Oh, dude, they've got monster bass and stuff. I was going for a peacock bass and I never got it. Like I could see them, but I think they're a little more weary than I thought, or I just didn't know what I was doing. I'm gonna tell you this. As a Canadian, I thought I respected wildlife. Dude, I was flirting with gators way too much down there. I got way too comfortable. So uh I get this 3D mapping job and we're out in the Everglades.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

3D mapping?

SPEAKER_06 45:28

Yeah, so they were doing LiDAR measuring the coast, uh, the recession of the coast and the receding of the banks every time they get a storm. So FEMA would subcontract, however, and it would land in this company I worked at's lap and we'd go down. That's cool. And I would have to set up these little tripods and then take measurements with the pogo stick, like my terms for uh being in uh a uh whatchamacallit there. Oh my god, gapping out. I'm not a surveyor, I just got a job and drove around and did what they told me. So like my terms are terrible. But yeah, so we'd fish in the meantime and uh shout out to the park ranger there who didn't arrest me. So we go and we find out in Florida, it's not like here. You have to buy an ocean license. It's not like tidal water where you can just go fish. Right, or you have listening.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

If if you're hunting if you're fishing tidal water here in New Brunswick, you do not need a fishing license.

SPEAKER_06 46:15

No, so so I I listen, I did my due diligence, I found out the rules, like I wasn't gonna mess around, right? Like, especially down like I I'm I'm there working on a visa or whatever it is, and I'm like, I'm not gonna get in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

I don't want to jeopardize it.

SPEAKER_06 46:28

So I get the inshore because we're inshore. Well, the first lake we go to apparently connected to the ocean, and was a saltwater lake. So I'm catching fish and I caught a little um they call them sea trope, but they're part of the drum fish family.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

So there's red drum and all this, and I caught a couple things, and here comes a ward, and I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, okay. Like you always get nervous, even if you're not doing anything wrong. It's like getting pulled over the roadside, you just don't want to deal with it, right? Can I see your fishing license? Sure. Where are you from? Canada. And right then his tone changes. Like he's like, he realized that this is, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, man. And uh so, anyways, he's like, There's only one other lake you need to worry about in here. Well, I mean, it's a pretty big park, the Evergreens Park, right? So, anyways, don't be accidentally, and I truly mean this. Go set up somewhere else. This looks like a great place to fish. No canoeing. Said nothing about no fishing, no signs. They really need to work on their signage, but so I catch this. Um, I wasn't fly fishing for this one. I had a little dock runner, which is like an ice fishing rod. They're super cool, and I caught this uh cichlid, I believe they're called, and they put up a good fight. Well, doesn't he drive around? He's like, Boys, I told you this is the other lake you couldn't fish at. And he just laughed and dropped, man, dude, that guy was chill. Like thank goodness he was because he could have really made my life miserable. So thank you for being a good sport about it. Uh so then there's a big Cypress park, which is next to the Everglades and uh outside Everglades City. And this is a cool place. And there's gators in the ditches, there's all these vultures in the trees. Like you're in the jungle, dude. So we stop and we're fishing this culvermine. This guy named Dave from Stanley. Shout out to Dave, he he'll laugh at this. Uh, he cooks a cichlet and he's reeling in all of a sudden. This huge gator comes out and tries to snap at it. He's like, We gotta go. I'm like, Are you kidding me? This is the best day of my life. This is awesome. Yeah, like I have no response, and they got signs everywhere don't mess with the gators, don't do this. I'm like, pfft don't pet him, don't feed them. Yeah, yet I'm afraid of a moose. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like so, anyways, looking back, I was a bit dumb. I was young and dumb. So we go to the next hole and I see these fish. I'm like, and we got a fly rod at uh Walmart at Cortland, which Cortland makes high-end line, but this was an affordable rod, and it again, like I said, great rod. It worked very well. Dave ended up with it, but I cast it to the cichlet and I got it. Well, there was a gator in the middle of the, and I got pictures of it online. You can see me smiling because I hooked this. Well, the fish ran under the gator. The gator starts going ballistic. Somehow I don't lose the fish and I'm reeling it in. This gator's freaking out, and I'm just all smiles, man. And I'm like, this is the coolest thing ever in my life. Like, this is amazing. You know, life is again like most people who go to Florida, they wouldn't take the time to fish, right? So, again, like it made being there so much more enjoyable. And I met a bunch of new friends and I followed them on Instagram and stuff. Like the guy was telling you, taught me how to do that sideways cast up the right up the stream. So uh he's oh man, what's his name? Mountain Hippie. I can't remember his handle, but he's out of New Jersey and he catches some big stripers in the ocean on a fly rod. Like he's legit.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

That's cool.

SPEAKER_06 49:29

And uh, but yeah, so anyways, that it was cool being around the uh all the wildlife there and stuff. But I was fishing in these um in these like dikes and dugouts that they have all around Florida because it's low, it's it's really close to ocean level, yeah, right? Yeah, I was like, man, I should probably be watching out for snakes and stuff. Then I just happened to look down and one slithers away. I'm like, dude, like I couldn't live here, I wouldn't make it in Florida, I'd be dead. Yeah, you know, I'd get bit by something, something would get me. Like I you grow up here in New Brunswick, like what do we have to worry about that you can't see, right? Well, now ticks, we didn't have that when I was a kid. No, you know, them are scary, dude. This silent thing, and like you know, half the doctors in the province don't believe is real, right? Yeah, like you know, there's a lot of people don't believe in Lyme's disease still. And it's like, how can you not, as a medical professional, look at what they're doing in the United States with all the peer-reviewed stuff?

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:20

Like, I got a buddy who's sick with it. Well, he's an acquaintance, he's a really good guy, though. So I say buddy because you know, we're friendly like that here in the Maritimes. His doctor does not believe in it. Well, and like he can't get help. You know, it's not so ticks are a real deal, so be really careful with your dogs and you know, check them because they'll they'll crawl in on your dog. They might not bite your dog, but they'll crawl on your couch and get you while you're sleeping. Yeah, you know, they're sneaky.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Yeah, but yeah, Florida with snakes. I know I was down there when we were down hog hunting. Yeah, that looks cool, bad. Yeah, it was it's pretty cool. I plan on going back again. And um, there's a snake going, it's a cotton mouth, and I just see it just like, oh, give me the wheelies. Because I was like, that thing bites you, you're you're in trouble. You're done. You're a couple of things.

SPEAKER_06 50:57

You're pretty well done. I think, I mean, I I imagine there's people who survive them, but like, man, yeah. So like as much as it'd be scary shit. Yeah, so you gotta be that's why guide really helps. Like if you're going somewhere that you don't know, like even if it's New Brunswick, like your learning curve is gonna be so much smaller if you go with somebody who knows.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:14

Like, even for me, like if I go up to Long Lake, say, where Clay's got his thing, I was gonna go with dad and we decided to go to Juniper instead, which was worth it because we could finally got into some big trout up there after all these years. But um I'd pay somebody there to take me because I don't know the lake. Why am I gonna spend all that money to get up to Plasterock to go fish and not catch fish? That's crazy. Hire a guide because if you were a guide, you know, especially if you're a guide, hire a guide because you want somebody to hire you, right? That's kind of the whole like give and take of the industry. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I try to do with you know, handing stuff out. And you know, I I don't sell my flies much. I have sold some. Uh fly tying's been a great, great hobby. Um, and now I'm into building rods, which is you know, I I got too many hobbies, but fly tying, like, I don't know how many flies I've handed out. You know, I want people to fish my flies. I don't tie the best fly going, but I know they catch fish, and I want people to catch fish. So um, again, the pay it forward thing is is and I'd encourage other people to do that that are listening. Like, you know, it's uh it just it feels good, and you don't know what's gonna come come around to you through karma in the universe, right? So, like if you take the time to be a good human being, it'll come back to you. And I feel like in the outdoors world, there's a lot of us. Yeah, there's a few bad ones, but you know what? You get that you got bad drivers and good drivers. You got it in every walk of life, right? So a lot of bad drivers around recently, though. My God, Fredericton, even in the 90s, Reader's Digest ranked Fredericton as some of the worst drivers in the country. Really? Yeah, my dad always used to quote that. It was one of one of his other favorite sayings, but yeah, yeah. Oh, he oh my god, yeah, he gets so worked up. Like for a guy who was calm, he d driving, we like stupid people would get him worked up with driving, but uh yeah, he was a treasure. He uh he really liked grouse hunting though, and and you learn a lot through doing something for so long, like you know what I mean? And there's still so much to be learnt about it, too. Like I can only read so many books,

Grouse Hunting Skills And Gun Fit

SPEAKER_06 53:05

but you have to go out nothing beats boots on the ground, right? No, it really doesn't. And like, you know, now it's it's learning how to hunt grouse with a dog.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

That's a different the a working dog's a whole thing in and of itself, right?

SPEAKER_06 53:18

Man, like I got more grouse before I got a bird dog than I did ever did with a dog, and I'll tell you why, because your positioning's totally different. Your positioning becomes okay, now if this dog happens to bump a bird out of the cover, where do I need to stand to shoot? Because in the grouse woods, it's like I compare it to shooting against Shaquille O'Neal. Like, if you're gonna shoot over Shaquille O'Neal, you better take a side step to get open because you can't shoot through trees. Like the trees are like his arms coming up to block you. Like you might like I see guys on the internet shoot through that shit, and I'm like, dude, I'm not saying you're unethical, but how many pellets are getting eaten up in that stick and you're getting one pellet in a bird? I've seen birds take full shots and fly away, and they can go a hundred. I've seen them go a hundred yards plus and then drop dead. Really? Like how many, oh yeah, like people think they're weak birds. Like, I'm here to tell you I've stepped on them on the way back looking for them. Like if people are like, You're crazy. I use shot under eight. I'm like, you must be one heck of a shot every time because I've shot them with shot size six, five. I wouldn't recommend going down to a four or five if you're doing a lot of wing shooting, but if you're doing like kind of like all around hunting, like your wing shooting, your road shooting, you're you know, you're doing all that stuff, five or six, five's gonna carry further because it's all about physics. Like your pattern densities, it comes down to your chokes and your gun. Each gun's different. You really gotta and have gun fit too. Yeah, if you don't have a proper fit and gun, you are gonna miss shots that you don't understand why. So the easiest way for anybody listening to check your gun fit. My suggestion is to take a rubber band and a cut piece of straw, strap it to your barrel, and if you can see right straight through that straw, your gun fits. The minute you're looking a bit up into the straw or down, your length of poles off. If you're right or left, your cast is off. So then you can, you know, you can you can make a gun fit, but most people don't know that. And then you're getting into bad habits with your form because now you have to do everything right and correct it. So then if you go buy a new gun, because you've saved up your pennies and you want that Benelli or Beretta, well now you're gonna bring those bad habits to a new gun that may fit you.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

And then you're gonna have to go through all of it. So like if anybody listening before you go spend money, check your gun fit. Um, you know, that whole you know, elbow to arm thing, like with the trigger, it kind of works, but then everybody's face is shaped different. Everybody's, you know, if you're a woman in in hunting, you know, your your chest shape and you know, can it can vary. You could be the same height and be a totally different physical build than somebody else, right? So like gun fit is very important for grouse hunting, it's number one in my opinion. Then your ammo, you know, and I'm not a big b I used to be a big believer in gauge. That that if you got an ounce of pellets, you're good to go. Yeah, yeah. 410, you better be in like it's good for kids because you teach kids to get close, and you should get close to grouse. That's why I don't just believe in wing shooting. I think it's good to teach people to learn to walk up on a grouse. Because like I get a kick out of it because like when my dad was growing up and his grandfather, it wasn't ethical to shoot a grouse on the wing because first of all, shells were expensive and everybody's poor in New Brunswick. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then if they get wounded on the fly, it's not honoring the animal. So you shot them in the head and they dropped. Now there's this whole other side of grouse hunting, and we're we eat it, we eat our own in hunting and fishing, unfortunately. We have all these infighting cults that like we need to stop. Yeah, but like now it's you have to shoot them on the wing to be ethical. It's like why? As long as we're going out there and we're honoring the animal, like, would you say you can't you can only shoot a turkey if it's moving? If you shoot a turkey flying or in a tree in the States, they'll they'll crucify you.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:56

Why? You went you went outside, you spent all your hours. If you can make the shot clean, why is it that we're fighting with each other? One state it's legal, one state it's illegal. Like, you know, you're calling me a poacher, it's legal here. You know, like we need to stop infighting because it's gonna come a time where we need each other. Oh, well, you didn't support me when they were banning dog hunting here in Montana, so screw you. People are petty like that, right? We need to unite as hunters, and like there's some scary bills being passed in the states, like that Oregon thing I sent you, man. Yeah, what's up with that? Yeah, you know, so we need to come together collectively and put our differences aside. And you know, so with grouse hunting, though, like back to that with the shot selection, if you're just getting into it, it's fives and sixes because wing shooting is a whole different beast, you gotta have form technique. It takes time to build up to that. Your reaction time on a grouse, and if you're hunting with a dog, snap shooting, and like you're like it's not something you should just rush into, you know what I mean? Like, learn to hunt grouse before you try to take a dog out to hunt grouse. People get way too into it. Oh, I'm getting a bird dog, I'm gonna learn to hunt. You gotta learn to crawl before you walk, son, and then run, right? You know, so you gotta be really careful, and um there's a lot to it, but it's it's rewarding, but don't rush the journey and you know, back to the um staying together with um and conservation we were talking about earlier. I wanted to touch on while I was here. Um, fishing here in the province. Like, I'm like I truly believe that we are blessed to live in New Brunswick, but we have had a lot of years of mismanaged outdoor adventures, like having Mike Holland come in with a breath of fresh air, but he's gone. We're back to they get random politicians who probably can't even tie a pair of work boots up. Oh, or or or know which end of the gun to hold. Yep. And no offense to Buddy, but like we can't have like it's unfortunate that those are the people that get put in positions because now we're going back to you know, people that don't understand it managing our sport. Like, so now for fishing, we've had DFO run New Brunswick. I don't think we've had an interprovincial thing. So we've had since the 1800s, we've had invasive species here, we've had chain pickerel and smallmouth bass. Well, you tell those guys you want to get rid of them, like bass fishermen, tournament fishermen, they're gonna go nuts at you. There's enough room for all the fish here, but the problem is they haven't been managed properly. So, like, yes, we have a lot of smallmouth bass here, but in most watersheds, if you take out a good percentage, the ones that remain will grow bigger. So it all depends on your viewpoint. But here's the thing we need to take care of our water as a whole, and if we take care of our water the way we need to, it will also help hunting. So we need to get all of these little like I'm a striped bass guy, I'm a salmon guy, I'm a trout guy. Like, we all need to shut up, come together and say, look, how can we make the water better and the hunting better? And if we all work together, we can put all our resources together and do one big project as opposed to these stupid little ones that yeah, like you're you're raising money at all these dinners and shit. But like, man, like what we're not really getting much done at the end of the day here. We need to come together. So, like, my solution would be okay, you got all these people who aren't hunters that are involved in small trades, like, say, these people who are trying to save the monarch butterflies, or there's a woodland toad or the woodland turtle that you're seeing a lot of lately. They seem to be on a rise, which is great. Yeah, yeah. Well, all of a sudden, say here in your area, your county what county are we in here? Uh, Westmoreland. Are you still Westmoreland? Uh, part of it, yeah. Part of it. Okay, say Westmoreland picks a river system every year, right? We're gonna protect the headwaters, we're gonna plant trees along it. Which, well, what kind of trees do you need for turkeys? What kind of trees do you need for deer? Well, I mean, we all know good grouse habitats, good everything habitat. So let's get all these groups together to pool their money. Well, the butterfly people, maybe they want this many acres along the brook of uh milkweed. Okay, we'll do that. And then if in return we've got a tractor at our company, we can bring in this, we might have this equipment.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:54

And so the different resources. We need to protect our headwaters. That's the problem. People keep thinking, you know, we need to do this, do that. Do you know in Nova Scotia their liquor store pitches in to fix the St. Mary's River?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Really? Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah, super cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:07

So we need something like that. We need people in that are gonna push for that. But the problem is, like, I can't run for politics. Shit, they wouldn't let me in that building.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

I'd get mad and throw something at somebody.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:15

I would hurt, yeah. Like, I'm not I'm not gonna say I'd get violent, but I would have a hard time remaining calm with those knuckleheads, right? So, like I said, my call was a breath of fresh air because he could stomach that stuff. I don't know how he did it, but it was amazing, and we got some stuff done, but we're still years behind where we need to be conservation-wise. So until we get people, and I hope people hear this and they're shaking their heads at me, maybe, but you know, maybe it'll get some people to wake up too. Because if, say, for instance, all the water warms up and there's gonna be insects that don't do well that certain fish feed on, and then other fish feed, it's all gonna trickle down. The ecosystem's fragile. So we really need to make sure our water stays cold. And people are like, Well, the salmon are dead anyways. I really don't like that kind of attitude. Like, I'm gonna fight to the last time. And I think the salmon are worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Yes, they're still here. Well, we're we're world renowned.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:04

Well, this is it. And I'm not saying they're ever gonna come back like the 70s, but nothing is yeah, like the deer herd's never gonna come back because there was no predators here for how many years until the coyotes came back? So that's like say 70 years, I think it was the late 1800s when they shot the last wolf. Like, I don't know for sure. We're never gonna get rabbits and deer back like we had. Yes, but we can still make it good for the kids that are coming. That's another thing I get a crack out of these organization groups. We need youth hunting, we need youth fishing. Well, if we don't save the friggin' habitat, man, they ain't gonna have nothing left. They're gonna be fishing in mud puddles essentially, right? Right. So we really need to come together. And again, I'm a bit like I'm a bit crude when I say these things, right? Like, so I'm probably not the guy to champion this, but like until we come together as a as a community and stop infighting about which fish should be in the merrimachi, like, what are we doing? Like, there's enough room for everybody, but things do have to be managed because there is carrying capacities, right? Like, you can't, you know, you can't have an influx of one thing and then not manage it. I'm not saying they should be eradicated because the striped bass, for instance, they're they're native, but all of a sudden it they just boom. So are they bad for the salmon? Well, they're not helping, but I'm not gonna point it at the striped bass. Like at one point I would have.

Headwaters, Habitat, And Conservation Unity

SPEAKER_06 1:03:20

But as I've learned, you know, you got the seals, they ban seal clubbing in Newfoundland. Well, that has an impact. Seals eat a lot of fish, they do, yeah. Like people were telling me the other day, they're what actually caused the cod to go away in Newfoundland, not the you know, but there was the the boats too coming from other countries, but so you got that. Then you got them fishing salmon, which they got shut down for a while, but then we had no no good home for the salmon to come back to. You imagine going to the ocean, coming back, going through all the trolling nets, then you got to deal with the seals, then you gotta deal with the stripers, then you gotta deal with the smallmouth bass for your young on the way out, and then you get home and your brooks all messed up and full of silt for clear cut. Yeah, well, they need somewhere to come home to, and that's the only thing we have control of is what they come home to.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:06

So let's make their home better. And if we fail the salmon, at least we try. But this giving up attitude, I really don't like because trout habitat needs good salmon habitat, you know, the lamper eels, like the whole system's really fragile. And we really, really need to start working together. And my idea is to build bigger buffer zones around all the headwaters, but by bringing all these different groups in to build them up together. Do it around rivers because we're never gonna get the clear cuts fixed. Like some of these clear cuts, man, and Juniper, you can go to crook rips, um, it's a put it's a launch in and launch out for boats. Literally to the road, it might be 50 yards, it's clear-cut as far as you can see on the other side. And they were supposed to put laws in that protected that against that, and it's still happening. I called Mike one day and shout out to Mike because he would actually take people's calls as a politician, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yeah, Mike Collins are former uh minister of natural research.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:01

Yeah, like you know, he took I took a picture, I said, Mike, this is not what the rules said it was gonna be. I was at the Young's Mackenzie Brook, uh, which is feeds the Nashwalk outside of Fredericton, and I was catching Smolton there in August. That's good. Like, usually you'll catch salmon par, but to catch salmon smolt in the brook, like accident. Obviously, I wasn't targeting them for anybody who's gonna be like, Oh, you can't fit, you know. Um well, then the next year I get there and it's cut, like, you know, there might be 50 yards. I say, What happened to this new buffer zone? Well, that brook wasn't part of the how can it not be? The pool at the mouth of the n where it meets the Nashwalk is protected from June 15 onward for salmon.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:36

So how are you telling me the brook doesn't qualify? That's not Mike's fault. But like these rules, like they're kind of just like to try to get people who aren't aware to think that things are being done right. So we need to come together and make pushes for the right things to happen because clear cutting is no good for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

No.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:54

You know, like walking companies, but well, I mean, man, they're kind of like, I mean, how am I Do you need to make?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

Yeah. And I mean, you know, their trees, like I like how they do it in Maine, they have the strip cutting, right? That that's sustainable, that's great for everybody, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:09

Well, then they get different size lumber too. Like, I don't think most of our big stud lumber that we're like building houses with, like, from what I've been talking to my carpenter buddies, it's all coming from Saskatchewan.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:18

Ship all the good stuff to Texas, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:20

Or the states. Like, we get shit lumber here. Like how we build straight houses here, shout out to the carpenters. Yeah. How do they build a straight house with bent wood? Yeah. Amazing. But um, yeah, so that's my bid on conservation. I just think it needs to be better cooperative. And I hope people take that message seriously because like the inf like I go on that Facebook, man, it makes me sad. Like social media has been good for hunting, but it's also been really bad and the same for fishing. Like double edge. Oh man, and I used to get caught up in those fights. I really did. Like it's so anybody out there saying, hey, that guy's a jackass, he argued with me on Facebook. Sorry, I'm trying to be a better person. I really am. But the fighting is terrible. Like it's just, it's really it makes me sad because like we're watching it disappear while we're busy over here, you know what I mean? And we're not paying attention. We need to, and that's why, like, if you don't hunt but you fish, well, maybe a conservation group is still good for you to join, like the Rough Gross Society. Uh, I don't know if it's 90% or 100% now, the Rough Grouse Society goes right back. Like, there's other, I'm not gonna name it, I don't want to knock any other conservation programs, but a lot of them pay people. So only like 10% of the funds raised actually go to conservation efforts, right? So Rough Grouse is one that if you don't want to do that, it's really good to give to because it go to their dinners and stuff because the money does go back. And now they got two younger guys in at the national level that seem to be really keen. Heard them on the bird shot uh podcast, and they want they're moving and shaking, like they want to do big things, and uh that's what we need. So I'd encourage people to not just hunt but to get involved with whatever local chapter you do have, but have a good attitude.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Well, just help save what you have because I mean you you think about all those conservation, not I'm not gonna call them conservation groups. Um, sorry, like the PETA groups and stuff like that. They're organized and they're coming for us.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:03

They're way better organized.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Yeah, we've got to just keep it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:06

I mean, they're a bunch of Looney Tunes, but they're organized, you know, and not being organized is a huge problem. You know, it it doesn't matter what avenue you're in. Like, for instance, look at landscaping, right? I'm not the most organized guy, and I'm also not running a multi-million dollar crew.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:20

Now I'm too busy wanting to go fishing and hunting to really even care about the redneck hippie thing, right? Like I'm just happy to make enough money, help people in my community, yeah, you know, seniors and stuff, and help them with their yards. But if I was organized, shit, dude, I'd have more money to go hunting, right? You know, so just even at that level. But when you look like you said, them P to people, man, they're angry. Like, I feel like they must be angry when they wake up in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:44

Like, I don't want to knock anybody, but you help me. Yeah, I again I'm trying, can I try, man? Trying to be more positive. But like you'd have to be some negative to wake up and just want to come after people. Because like I don't want to I don't wake up and want to go after them. I just want to go to work, you know, spend time with my dog, my girlfriend. Well, I probably should have said my girlfriend before the dog, but you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like, I just want to be happy and get out fishing, and then that's the problem. They wake up, they want to go at us. So we're already a step behind, right? And until we come together, you know, I'm not saying we're gonna lose it, but like that thing in Oregon is freaky. So for those of you who don't know, I don't know if it's fake news, I really don't think it is. They're passing a bill out there, apparently, that or they're trying to get it passed that's gonna ban farming, you know, everything that has to do with animal cruelty in their eyes. So I don't know if they're gonna just starve. Yeah, they're trying, you know, they're gonna be able to do that. The fact that they're even the fact that that's even a moving is scary. Like, what are they gonna eat? Like, well, you can't harm crickets. Yeah, you can't even eat crickets because that's life too. I get a kick out of these people, they don't think their plants are alive. Yes, like they're alive too, they're a sentient being. Like, if you play music for a plant, it'll grow different, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

Really?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:57

Yeah, I mean I've heard actually I've heard that. Yeah, that's no joke, man. Like, I've talked to like I meet a lot of people in the run of a day gardening a landscape, and I'm telling you, man, there's real, there's real medicine.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

I've I've actually have heard that, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:10

When you think about every house we build developing, we got an urban sprawl problem in New Brunswick, too. So um, every time you cut an acre down to build your lot, how many animals are you displacing and insects? You're you're you're shrinking the carrying capacity. Eventually, if all those animals just move out, they're gonna compete with each other, get diseases, and die, right? So nobody is without fault with wildlife. Well, these people that are vegetarian and vegan, you think of where their food's coming from. They're cutting down forests, they're cutting down forests, and then they're cutting down the the hay or whatever else or whatever crop they're gardening, and how many animals live in that? They're chewing it up, and then they're spraying pesticides on it. Yeah, like do you know PEI has like the worst rates of cancer in Canada because all the potato spray?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:50

Yeah, they got beautiful trout there though, somehow, but I wouldn't eat them.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:54

Well, I mean, shit, we eat stuff here too, Lord knows what's been sprayed, but you know, like it's it's bad in PEI, right? Yeah, so you know, that spray stuff, like, you know, stop spraying New Brunswick's a really funny one though, because we had this whole motion for that for a while, which is good, but they don't realize the farmers are spraying more of it than the wood harvesters are. I'm not taking the forestry, you know, I'm not giving them a pass, but I'm just saying our farmers use it too, and then you're eating that. You know, that's pretty scary when you think about that. The shit that's making sure that hardwood trees don't grow is being sprayed on your potatoes and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Yeah, that's pretty scary. I know that's a whole other conversation thing there. No, I know.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:30

I don't want to get us too far in the weeds, but I'm just saying, like, so all everybody's responsible for the environment, right? So when they come after hunters, I get really upset because we're the ones out there enjoying it and keeping the knock.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

I think we care more than anybody.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:43

Oh man, do you think the scientists that go out there like once a month and reporting back to DNR, like, no offense to the people working hard there, but like they don't know everything just because they went to school for a couple years, and you know, if like they can only do so much, their jobs demand so much. How are they gonna manage the moose herd, manage the deer herd, know how many grouse are around? Like, there's they're short staffed, man. So if you're relying on the government as a person who doesn't hunt to keep an eye on nature, well, you're already fooled. You know you can't count on them for anything else. Why would you believe they're gonna manage our wildlife properly? New Brunswick is a perfect example of what happens when you don't manage it. We almost lost our moose herd. We lost the caribou, which likely would have happened anyways, just through forestry.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Well, I think the agriculture and the wait till deer.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:24

Yeah, when the deer come up, that that brain works. But again, with the Americans are coming, that whole thing, like that that's a book title, by the way, folks. It's not blaming the Americans, but when you guys lost your hunting, um like your population of wild animals, many people came to New Brunswick as like a tourist destination. You could shoot bear, moose, caribou, deer. Like, why wouldn't you come? So New Brunswick, unfortunately, was just like great money, as we always do. Didn't really think to manage it, and we almost lost our moose herd. I think 67. I don't remember when they shut it down, but I think it was before World War II, was it not? Do you know? I'm not I'm not very okay. Yeah, my history's only so good. I remember 30% of everything, right? But um, I'm pretty sure it was the late 60s before we got our moose hunting back. Like we we damn near missed the moose, and if we don't smarten up, we may end up there again, too. Like, again, like people don't realize stuff. Like the moose fences had a huge problem. Like, yeah, they saved lives, but you know, shoving fences down the highways every which way across the province, I mean, they migrate, things need to move, you know. Just these little things we do as humans interfere with nature, and we don't we don't stop and think about what we're doing. Yeah, so until we come together, make good plans, get good people in positions that can make change or promote that care, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:40

You know, that care.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:41

Yeah. So again, like so if you're too busy arguing on Facebook about which fish you like, but you're not really putting that energy into making things better, like always leave something better than you found it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:52

I guess is my message here, you know. And what and I got actually now that I got a public sphere here to talk on, what is it with Bud Light cans and littering in the woods? Like, if you see every beer can in the woods, you notice most of it's Bud Light. Or do all the assholes that litter drink Bud Light?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

Well, I find it's a variety, but yeah. Oh, home, it's Bud Light street.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:11

Oh, oh yeah. I don't know, maybe if it's just like the beer drinkers in this county versus the Dex County have a favorite liquor, but man, there's a lot of Bud Light cans in the wood, dude. Like, and I don't understand why they don't pick them up.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

Yeah, I know. I'm I'm big against littering. I'd yeah, you know, it's just stuff like that, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:25

Like, so I think we little baby steps, like try to leave it better. Like, you know, I I can remember, man, we found a bunch of beer cans by a brook one time. I won't say where it's a good fishing hole, but there was like a brand new thing, a bug spray. We found spinners and everything. Like it was littered amongst it, but like we got going rummaging through the stuff to clean it up, and like we were rewarded with you know your cleaning efforts, yeah, yeah. It was sick. Yeah, and the bugs were bad there, so it really worked out in our favor. But yeah, it's uh it's pretty good, man. I uh I really enjoy this this lifestyle. Like, I don't think there's a better way to spend your days than you know, outdoors and being abroad. And uh I know we've kind of juggled a lot in this topic, but uh these topics, but uh I really appreciate your platform too because it gives people an opportunity to learn and hopefully you know create new ideas too, right? Like we need to have fresh perspectives. That's

Final Thanks And Closing

SPEAKER_06 1:15:19

why, again, like I was saying earlier, getting outdoors women involved, it's a perspective we've never had. You know what I mean? Like it's a new it's not new. There's always been outdoor when my great great grandmother used to fly fish in a dress and the rest of goose, but it wasn't common. Yeah, used to smoke cigars too. That's how she got smoking cigars, I guess, was to keep the bugs away.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

Okay, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:39

What a terrible please don't pick up smoking to keep the bugs away, folks. But like, you know, back then, right? Yeah, so that we've always had some, but I think it's great to get you know, people that wouldn't normally influence other human beings into the outdoors, right? Because the more we have from different avenues of life, the better the sport's gonna grow, right? And uh, you know, yeah, like I said, the single mother's taking their kids out fishing. Well, we clearly need for women to know to fish because people don't stay together anymore, you know what I mean? So, you know, it's uh sign of the times. Yeah, so we need we need more of them. Yeah, and I'm a big proponent of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

Well, I mean, you know what, Eric, I think that's a perfect place to leave this podcast. It's right there. So uh you've been an absolute treat coming out, and I'm so thankful for the fly rod, and I will be practicing with it. All right, all right. All right, so until next time. Cheers.