Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Ep.125 When Protected Wildlife Becomes A Public Threat
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A sea lion the size of a small car starts lunging at people in a Southeast Alaska harbor and the town has to make a call. I’m joined by Brandon Ware out of Petersburg, Alaska, and he walks me through the full story of two aggressive male sea lions that were “terrorizing” the docks, stalking people, and creating a real risk for kids and dogs in a working marina packed with boats.
Before we get to the action, we slow down and get the context right: what Southeast Alaska is like day to day, why Petersburg is such a commercial fishing hub, and what waterfowl hunting looks like up there, from sea ducks and diver ducks to geese and even big sandhill crane migrations. Then Brandon breaks down Steller sea lion biology in a way that’s hard to forget: 1,500 to 2,500 pounds on the big end, heavy scarring from fighting, massive teeth, and a bite force that can change how you think about “marine mammals.”
From there, we talk wildlife management and the legal reality under the Marine Mammal Protection Act, including how Alaska Native subsistence and cultural harvest works. Brandon shares what went wrong with these particular sea lions, why non-lethal efforts didn’t solve it, what it’s like taking careful shots inside city limits, and the chaotic challenge of retrieving a 2,000-pound animal with a crane when a line snaps and the whole plan goes sideways. We also dig into the “why” behind aggression, including signs of sickness, parasites, and the dangerous pattern that starts when people feed wild animals.
If you care about hunting ethics, conservation, and real-world safety around wildlife, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share it with a hunting buddy, and leave a review with your take: where’s the line between protection and necessary management?
Check us out on Facebook Hunts On Outfitting, or myself Ken Marr. Reach out and Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
Welcome And Sponsor Shoutouts
SPEAKER_00Until this is Hunt Opening Podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, Ken Murray. I love everything hunting, the outdoors, and all things associated with it. Welcome to the podcast. I can't say how much I appreciate the guides and gals listening to this podcast and sharing it out. That seems to be the best way to grow it. Thanks to you guys sharing it out so fast. This week I'm real excited to share this one with you because we're talking with the Brandon Quare of Alaska. And this is probably one of the most unique animals so far that I've had the opportunity to talk to somebody about on the podcast. We are talking about sea lines. Brandon's going to tell us a story about two giant sea lines that were basically terrorizing the small fishing builds in Alaska until dispatching these ones. But it's not as easy as we think of these animals, these are two animals. And it was interesting to get the full story from. And along with that, we're also going to talk about some more animals in Alaska. You know, we could talk a little bit about ticket deer, the moose steel hunting. Waterfall hunting there. It was really interesting to uh to learn about a new area for me and uh talking about that. It's a super great guy and tell us one heck of a story. Um I think I got to really get into it. Also, for a lot of areas now, uh my area special tool is uh people have found out whether they want to be watery or not for a specific tag that they have put in for it to be drawn. Um and I know that my area of fendo today that a lot of people are going to be going uh boots hunting. Some excitement, some disappointment, that's all part of the fun. I'm lucky that I will be going with a friend of mine on a moose hunt here. And if you are going booth hunting, don't forget about Pro Expedition. Pro Expedition has lots of moose minerals and attractions to help bring those boots in, set up the cameras, and see what's coming in. And Pro Expedition is gonna help you get that. And also, if you're gonna be doing some archery hunting this year, uh check out hooligan archery products, use code HUNTON2026, all caps, all one word. You're gonna save some money at checkout, uh getting uh broadheads, arrows, chaps, everything. One stop shot, you're gonna love it. Checkout and it's really top quality and uh guilt to show on there. Howl is attached them and uh you know the broadheads called that's the tattooing through steel into bricks, you name it, they're gonna be able to handle it. So if you do happen to make a wrong shot on an animal and hit a shoulder blade or something like that, you know what? You're still in good hands. That arrows that broadhead's gonna take care of itself. Uh let's talk to Brandon. Oh, and if you are looking to get a hold of us to maybe come on the podcast or suggest somebody for it or just reach out to me, you can email me at Huntsonoutfitting at gmail.com or you can find us on Facebook, Hunts on Outfitting, or find myself on there, Kenmair. Feel free to reach out. Some of you guys have been. It's been great talking with you from all over.
Life In Petersburg, Alaska
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, so Brandon, you are uh I've talked to people from all over North America. Um, you are the first person I've had on from Alaska. You're in Alaska, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yep, I am.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's uh that's really cool. So what part of Alaska are you in?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a good question. I'm in Southeast, and so uh I mean I'm located out of Petersburg, which is about 100 miles south of Juneau, 100 miles north of Ketchikan, a real recognizable towns. And uh we're actually funny enough, so we're closer, so in Southeast Alaska, we're closer to Seattle than say like the interior, Fairbanks. I mean, even I I think it's about the same distance to Anchorage as it is to Seattle from us. And so it's a pretty massive state. And so I'm based out of Southeast though.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Um, so what what do you uh what do you guys know? Is the you guys known for anything in that area?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah, so you know what? In Petersburg, we're uh we're really known for commercial fishing. Most of the Southeast is commercial fishing, but uh Petersburg itself uh is a uh a massive working boat town. We have all sorts of uh halibut fishermen, salmon fishermen, um divers, crabbing, you name it, we have it all. But um, we're also pretty well known for uh well pretty well known for our outdoors here. We have all sorts of guides. I'm I'm a guide myself, so I take people out fishing and uh I do waterfowl guy uh trips as well. Oh and uh fly fishing, saltwater, we do it all. But yeah, so we're we're pretty well known for our working boats, though. We have massive harbors.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, yeah, I figured. Um
Waterfowl Hunting And Big Migrations
SPEAKER_00so what what kind of waterfowl do you guys mainly hunt there? Like what kind of is it just ducks? Do you guys have geese as well? Like I wasn't sure what kind of went up to Alaska.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's uh we we get all sorts of ducks. We get uh we get we get your kind of run of the mill sea ducks. Well, I say run-of-the-mill, but they're they're pretty incredible. So we get like tarlequin, long tail, um all all sorts all sorts of stuff. And then uh we get all we get a lot of uh diverdling ducks, and so we get all like the pod uh the pond ducks, and then we get geese, we get um the greater and lessers, we get snow geese, sandhill cranes. I mean, we get tons of tons of birds.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you guys got sandhill cranes up there.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, we have a massive migration of sandhill cranes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we're based right on the Stakina uh on the Stakine um flats and uh right at the mouth of the Stakine River. And so we have it's a massive flyway up into uh the interior actually interior BC.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah, that's uh yeah, that's cool. I did not know that. It just I thought I was thinking of the more like um prairie birds, I guess you could say.
SPEAKER_01Oh, fair enough. We get grouse too. That's we get tons of grouse, but uh that's really kind of the only like quote unquote prairie birds we get around here. We uh no pheasant, no quail.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't think you guys had that. Yeah, no, that's right. That's cool. Um
Sea Lion Size, Diet, And Legalities
SPEAKER_00so I'm excited too, because we're gonna talk about an animal that I've uh trying to think if I've ever seen one in person, maybe, but uh know absolutely nothing about. And you know, I came across you from I saw an article I think on Facebook or something like that. It just popped up of you guys with this massive uh sea lion, right? Is it sea lion?
SPEAKER_01Yep, there's a sea lion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so tell me for those of us that don't know, listening to this and myself, tell me a little bit about the sea lions and like what the population's like there, you guys' interaction with them, and just a little bit about the species itself.
SPEAKER_01Oh, totally. So sea lions are a pretty interesting animals, so they're uh uh so uh you you most people know about like harbor seals and everything, they're they're 300 pounds maximum. Well, our sea lions get get up to anywhere from uh anywhere from 1,500 to 2500 pounds of the on the huge end. So I mean they're they're big animals. And uh as far as like the fit uh their the uh the the way their bodies uh the body is is uh if you look at their skull compared to a brown bear skull, their skull, their skulls are almost identical, except the sea lions oftentimes is bigger because they get bigger than brown bears. Right. And so yeah, they're pretty super interesting animal. They uh they they live, I think, up to 30 to 40 years old on average, I think they uh on average. And uh yeah, they mostly mostly live off of salmon, uh halibit, whatever, whatever fish they can get, herring. But um, and they're actually a protected species on under the Marine Marine Mammal Protection Act, the MMPA. But under the under the Marine Mammal Protection Act, there's there's a clause in there that says the Alaska natives of a quarter blood quantum blood quantum or more uh are able to harvest uh marine mammals for cultural use, subsistence use, um, and uh and foods or whatever it might be. So uh that that would that's what allows me to hunt like sea lions, seals, sea otter, marine mammals, and uh and so that's uh and so the sea lions, I'm normally I'll I'll get maybe maybe one a year. And uh the the form of cast. The one that you're referring to is a little bit more of a special case there. That was uh that was a pretty special case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited to get into that, but before we get right into that too, so I just want to talk. I mean, some people are like, well, why would you harvest these? But if they're living to be that old and they can get that big, I'm guessing they don't have a lot of predators besides maybe some sharks and orcas. Uh I'm sure they need to be managed, right?
SPEAKER_01They 100% need to be managed. And so the the idea with it is that uh killer whales, orcas are really the only only thing that uh predates them. I mean, we don't uh every once in a blue moon, you'll get a great white, uh you'll get a white shark coming up around like Prince of Wales and Ketchcan area. And we have some historical data saying that they do come up. And uh and the Quinket people, my people, have it have actually had interactions with them, but not nearly as much as like say the Washington, Oregon, or California coast. And so really the only thing that predates them is the killer whales, the locus. And so we have massive amounts of them around here. I mean, there's there's I'm sure anyone that's anyone that might be living in like California or or Washington or Oregon knows sea lions are per are everywhere, and there's and there's almost like an overpopulation of them. Up here in Alaska, we don't have necessarily the amount of overpopulation, but we still have a really, really large uh large quantity of them around. And um, and that's a that's relatively new uh a newer idea. So without um back in the 70s and 80s, you hear about these uh human records that largely were empty, and there wasn't weren't that many there. And um and I believe the Marine Mammal Protection Act went to uh went into effect in like 1971 or something like that. And so ever since then, uh they they came under uh and and the blood quantum stuff was put in for Alaskan natives, um the numbers just rebounded. I mean, we have some real really healthy salmon runs, really healthy habitat, and so they just started driving. And so uh yeah, I mean they they started really booming, and that's where it was also kind of a lost traditional practice of harvesting sea lions, no one really ever harvested them. And so when I when I was growing up and you hardly heard about it, but traditionally, I mean, traditionally we would, but just no one ever really did for a long time.
SPEAKER_00Huh. Okay, yeah, that's interesting. I said I don't know much about that part of uh of the world, but it I I found it really cool. So yeah, you keep you keep adding in anything you're thinking because uh I'm I'm really soaking it up and learning. So um dumb I figured that. I figured they would being that size and everything, they wouldn't have much for predators except for the killer whales, the orcas there. Um so uh how much being that size, how much fish are these things going through a day?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's a great question. You know, I don't have the number off the top of my head, but I mean they could probably um I know that like sea otters, for example, which have a little bit faster of a metabolism and they're significantly smaller, they have to eat half their body weight at least and shellfish a day, a shellfish a day, and that's for and that's for an 80-pound animal. And so sea lions significantly larger. They uh they do have they do have pretty good fat stores, and so I'm sure that they they just gorge themselves on whatever they can and uh build up that fat for the so for the skinny season being the wintertime when the salmon aren't running as much. But um, I'm I'm sure they're they're probably eating a lot dozens. Yeah, they're eating dozens of salmon a day, if not more, if not more when they're able.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So I mean, definitely need to be managed. Uh, I know the fishermen in my area here, like with the steels, um, they're it's really becoming a problem. And we're like where I'm at uh on the East Coast here in New Brunswick, and then also Nova Scotia and Canada here, we're having uh I wouldn't say a problem per se, but we're definitely getting an influx of great white sharks. And a lot of that I think has to do with the the steel numbers. They're they're through the roof. Yeah. And the fishermen are uh they're getting they're they've they've opened up a hunting season on them finally. It's still by draw, but they have because uh you know our politicians have realized that this is going to impact the fishery.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%. 100%, yeah. Uh that's insane. More great white sharks up by New Brunswick. Yeah that's a that's a little ways north.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. Um it's crazy. Uh I had a guy on the podcast, and this guy that he knows, his dog, they were out uh duck hunting on the on the water there, and his dog was actually killed by a great white shark. Never in a million years would he ever think that would happen, right? Here. Yeah. But um, yeah, no, that the shark number's going up, and I think it's uh they're saying it uh most likely has to do with the amount of uh seals.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep, that's the thing, is that everything needs to be managed and it's gonna get it's gonna get managed one way or the other. But that's uh that's just insane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um so alright, so we got a little uh history and a little bit about the sea lions.
Harbor Warnings And A Nuisance Call
SPEAKER_00So so tell me the story about like how why I would come across this, because I mean I found it on Facebook. I was like, that's really neat, but um what is there's a little bit of a story on this big monster that you guys got.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally. So I think I really just gained attention because I think it was for the most part a first. Like it was in straight, it was pretty a pretty cool idea just a massive animal. We uh so uh a little bit of context, we uh I had heard that there's problem sea lions down down at our harbors here, and there are signs posted everywhere saying day danger, sea lions, uh be aggressive sea lions. So watch out because we do not recommend, and the city put out an or uh announcement, we do not recommend that small children or uh or uh dogs be walking on the dock there because those sea lions are starting were starting to get aggressive and stalking people, they're lunging, trying to grab one, and then when you have an animal that's bigger than a brown bear with uh that's being aggressive, aggressive like that, it's a real problem. So they'll they'll stalk people? Well, not normally. These ones were there. So there's two of them that were. Yeah, but there's one that was huge that was stalking people, and another one that was smaller, and they're just getting aggressive. I mean, we've had problems with sea lions in the past where people were feeding them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh there's actually a story when I was a kid that uh there's a man there's a man that was baiting up uh some commercial fishing gear sitting on the edge of his boat, and that a sea lion that had been fed jumped up and grabbed him, and from the middle of his back got down below uh down below his buttocks, uh it completely tore it, tore him. And 77 stitches completely, and he just had a hip replacement, so he had to go get that hip rub uh fixed up and almost drug him into the water.
SPEAKER_00That is insane.
SPEAKER_01Really? Yeah, yeah. So I mean they're just not in the wild, they're I mean, in the wild, they're pretty even keeled temperament. I that they really won't bother you all that much, but fit but uh these sea lions that are hanging around the harbors, that there's just like a bear that's been that's been too socialized to people, they just kind of lose that fear.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then they're dangerous, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah, so these uh so, anyways, back to back to this big sea lion and uh the sea lion story. I uh I've been hearing about it, and so I called up our chief of police because we're a small town of about 3,000, and I asked him, I said, uh, I hear you're gonna put down a sea lion as any way I can get part of the hide once you're done, because I didn't want the entire thing going to waste. And he goes, better yet, he's like, Do you just want to go take care of the problem yourself? He goes, There's way less paperwork for me to do to uh to get get your permit to shoot within city limits than there is for me to get a permit from Noah to go to go take care of these nuisance sea lions. I was like, let me clear my schedule. So uh yeah, we ended up clear clearing the schedule. And uh next day I brought my brother out with me, and uh we launched this little skiff that we that uh we had, and we looked like three hours for the sea line for these sea lions, and we couldn't find them, and we were about to call it a day. Well, I get a call from the chief of police who had actually just gone out deer hunting and was pulling back into the harbor when he saw that when he saw the sea lions. He goes, They're in the harbor, they're in the harbor, call me up, and he's that's no, no hello, no nothing. Just like hurry. So I raced over. And uh I guess I raced over. Well, one of the problems sea lions popped up. There's a smaller male that been that had been harassing people, jumping all over the place. I pulled up and I was using a 4570 with uh 405 grain bullet from about it's a hit, but from about 10 yards away. I mean, it was right there. I pull up, I put one right behind the fear, and uh and it didn't it didn't kill it right away. It dove, and I was like, what? I mean it's uh 10 yards away from a 4570 and it popped back up and I got got a had a follow-up shot on it, just toast done right there.
SPEAKER_00When he popped up though, was he with it or uh not much.
SPEAKER_01I mean he was definitely on his way out, but it was just like I still you you know you're a I you're a hunter, you probably understand. You don't want him to suffer no matter what. So that's why I was just like, I put put another one in his head, and I was all patting myself on the back and patting my brother, patting my brother on the back, and you're like, ooh, we took care of it, and all of a sudden I hear, and there's the big one, and I look over because there's people by that at that point we had a small crowd watching us, unfortunately.
The Harbor Shoot And The Chaos
SPEAKER_01And I mean they're kind of off to their side, and uh I turn around, and there's this big feeling. It was a problem one. It was both of them were problems. This one was the scary one, though, because he was the one that was jumping up and lunging at people. And uh there's a video that I saw the day before um uh of uh of him and all start up and all beat up, and the chief of police were trying to get uh we're trying we're trying to use non-lethal to get him out of the harbor. Well, they tased him at one point the day before I shot him. They didn't yeah, they tased it, but one of the chaser farms got stuck in him and the other one bounced off. That's crazy. They hardly even phased him. I think they even shot him with like a beanbag shotgun and uh all sorts of non-lethal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean he was already he was already there.
SPEAKER_00Beanbag done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. He was angry, so uh that's where I pulled up, waited for him to go out in an open spot. I uh it took me a little bit of waiting because I was like, I there's million dollar boats all around me, and I'm like, I'm not gonna take a shot next to a million dollar boat. Yeah. And so I waited for him to circle out. He circled right out in the middle of the open, and I put one right in the top of his head. I mean right in the top of his head. Now the other sea line, if I when I did that, it kind of dove but didn't thrash or anything. It kind of it was on its way out. This one, it just pissed it off. Really? It started ramming, yeah. I mean, it started ramming boats, ramming the docks. Yeah, it was insane.
SPEAKER_02Cow. That is insane.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it I I've never seen anything like it. It was going crazy, and I couldn't get a follow-up shot on it because it was just moving too fast.
SPEAKER_00You didn't want to shoot someone's boat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. And that like I didn't want ricochet or anything. I was in the middle of a harbor, which is in the middle of town. And so ended up Exactly. So it's raming stuff, and uh finally uh it got really right right behind this uh big commercial fishing boat. My brother jumped up on the commercial fishing boat. I threw the 4570 to him, and he pulled right up above it and pulled the trigger and uh point blank and it did the trick. And uh and that's when we realized how much we screwed up. It was like it was like this thing's gigantic. And we were looking at it and we had a game plan. So the game plan was we had this big J hook that was we call a shark hook. Yeah, and so we used that to land big halber. We'll put it through the halbert's mouth and then pull them in. That usually doesn't go anywhere. It was brand new one though, so razor sharp. I tried putting it through its mouth and it wouldn't put penetrate the cheek. Really just that tough skin. It was that tough. And so we ended up uh I ended up having to reach into its mouth, which is terrifying, and just uh with uh with a Victorinox, which is like a razor blade, and cut through it, cut a hole in its mouth and uh run a line through. And the idea was to tow it over to this crane dock and use the crane to pick it up. Well, my skiff couldn't tow it. I I didn't I thought it for sure to be able to do it, but but it couldn't. So I was like, well, what do I do now? Well, we ended up getting the uh harbor security skiff, which is a little bit bigger, bigger skiff, a little bit bigger engine, and uh and the city didn't let me use it. So I towed it over to the crane and uh had my dad operating the crane because only Alaska natives can it can can help out help out with this process unless we had proper permitting. Well, so we get it over to the crane, and I dropped my brother off at the other sea lion, he's skimming out the other sea lion while I'm dealing with this big one, and uh we start lifting it out of the water, and uh the idea was just barely lift it out of the water enough so its fins are out, and I'm able to get a lifting strap underneath its fins that way we can pick it up and deal with it when it's up there. Well, we lifted it out of the water, I'm underneath it just enough. I'll put the strap underneath its fins and the line snapped. And and all of a sudden, 2,000 pounds is falling down right in front of me. And so I push away from it just in time, and it just sunk like a rock. I mean, it was like all the way down the bottom fast. And I was like, Well, there it goes. And I looked up at my dad who's operating the crane on the top of the dock, yeah, and I go, What do we do? And he goes, We made every reasonable effort. Nothing else we can do, which is what the law says for harvesting animals. And I was like, well, I guess so. I was like, well, take care of the problem. I'll see you later. It's a crab bait now, I guess. And so I was gonna, I was helping my brother out. I went back over to him, helped him skin out the other one. Well, I get a phone call from our chief of police again. He's all excited. He goes, I got a diaper on it. I'm like, you what? I got a diaper on it. He's all excited. And uh it was insane.
SPEAKER_00He sounds like a great guy. He sounds like a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01Oh, he's he's honestly a blast. He's a good he has a he has yeah, he's a cool guy. But yeah, he called me up and said he got a diver on it. He got special permission from Noah, National Oceanic Administration, uh, and whatever administration, and uh the people that that manage it, and they gave us a special permission to hire a non-native diver to help us with the retrieval of it. And uh so sure enough, it took us to call him three divers, and on the third diver, he ended up saying yes. Well, it turns out this diver had history with the sea line. Really? It pinned him to the ground. Yeah, so we had harbor projects going on the year before. Yeah, that same sea lion had pinned him to the ground and held up held him under for like a half hour. What?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he was more than happy to get the dead sucker up there.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, he was he was just stoked that to hear that we uh hear that we took care of it. And so he ended up strapping it up, we lifted it out of the water, and those are the pictures you see of me and my entire family next to the sea lion. I mean, the other one was about five to six hundred pounds, we assume. So it was a big animal, really big animal. Yeah. That was the the bigger one I got was about two thousand. Wow. Maxed out the crane.
SPEAKER_00That is crazy. And to have an animal like that size, just so it was terrorizing, but like stalking them and like so if somebody was going with a small kid or a dog, like would they in like they were in real danger.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%. I mean, most people were in real danger when they got around it, but it it it would definitely it was looking for something small to uh to make a meal out of it. So it really it would have yep.
SPEAKER_00So a dog would do, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, a dog would do the trick for it, I guess. And uh what's crazy is I was talking with people. I mean, you know, you have this happening, and all of a sudden the stories start coming out of the woodworks about like letters people had it built. And it I wasn't I I wasn't doing it to like get gain a bunch of attention or anything like that. It was more of just like the community has a problem and I want to help help out, and it just turned into a big deal where people were coming out of the woodwork talking about the their their encounters with it, Todd telling me how grateful they were for it. So it did it did feel pretty good, you know, being like, man, it's helped out the community.
SPEAKER_00You didn't want to be, but you were you were the hero. You and your brother. Yeah. You know, you guys were I mean, this was this was a monster, right? You guys were you could say modern day dragon slayers, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, taking on a beast like that, that's crazy. I mean, uh I I've never I don't think I've ever I don't think I've ever seen one, but just just a I mean they're beast. Now an orca, would they struggle with one of them? I think I saw this thing, maybe it was on the Discovery Channel or something, saying that like the orca is going after them. They've got to be careful because if they get bit by one, it's it's gonna do some damage.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. It 100% will do some damage. And what's really incredible about it is uh is they're those killer, those orcas are so intelligent though that they they figured out how to get them. And so what's funny about it is uh we have a bunch of buoy, navigational buoys around our town, and the sea lions jump up on those navigational buoys. Now, I don't know, have you ever seen those uh have you ever seen those videos of uh orcas in like Antarctica knocking seals off big big ice flow? Uh huh. So they'll make a big roll. Yeah, they'll do the same thing, same thing to our navigational buoys here. It's incredible to watch them. They'll knock them off and uh yeah, and eat them that way, or else they'll uh they'll teach our young, they'll actually toss them back on top of those navigational buoys and teach your young how to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've seen that. They're they're so intelligent, they'll show their young, like, look, when they're up on here hiding from you, you can still get them off. Or I've seen them them go and they'll go if they're up on ice, they'll go straight towards the ice and then they'll go under and they'll make this big wave and it'll crack the ice and they're teaching their young to do that. I mean, that's smart.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah, but oh, it's incredible. But yeah, no, those are really the only thing that uh predates them, and I and the only thing that'll really mess with them, but like you're saying, they still gotta be careful because those are big animals.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, how strong their bite must be just incredibly strong because they said if they do manage to get a bite at an orca, that orca is gonna be it's gonna be in some pain.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, you know, I um I ha I had the number off the top of my head. I can't I can't remember it right now, but I mean their bite force is huge. I mean, their cheeks are just m are massive, and uh their teeth, their teeth are bigger than any bears I've ever seen. I mean, they're they're they're they're four or five inches, uh uh four or five inches at least on the uh canines and just sharp and uh and thick.
Why The Big Sea Lion Turned
SPEAKER_01Now what's interesting about this big sea lion though was um it is what what we think what happened was he was sick. And so, and then he taught the yellow, the smaller one that was aggressive, uh, was learning his same behaviors. But this big one, without skinning him out, he just covered in worms. Just covered in worms. Really? Like I've never seen anything else. Yeah, maybe he'd be yeah, we're figuring that probably eating so many fish over such a long lifetime that it was covered, and then on top of that, he it looked like he had a tooth infection. And so it was it it just he was probably not feeling good, all pissed off and hungry and trying to grab whatever he could.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Oh, I got it here. So it said sea lines, it can be up to about a thousand uh pounds per square inch bite force. Holy. So that's that's a lot. It's a lot. Wow. Um Yeah, so those two hanging around the hybrid. Now, it is it odd that they got along.
SPEAKER_01It it was a little bit now because both of them were males. And so typically what they'll do is that these big sea lions will have harems of females uh around them, and so like they'll have a bunch of females and uh they'll chase off other males. But it was weird that uh both of these were males and they were kind of hanging out, and and we call the big one the Beachmaster because that's like that that's their rank among other sea lions and like in the social structure, is that he really controls the territory. Like the he was the only like big male in the area. So I imagine once that little smaller little sea lion, air quote little. Yeah. But once that little sea lion probably hit a certain size, he might have gotten run off.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, no, that's interesting. So the big one there, so there was there other females hanging around, or were those two just kind of exclusively the only ones in that area?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's tons of females hanging around.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but they're no they're no trouble to you guys. You guys never had an issue with them.
SPEAKER_01No, so it's really only I I think it's only ever been the males that we've had issues with. The males are significantly more like aggressive towards each other, aggressive towards other animals. I mean, if you walk up on like where they're hauling out and it's and it's and it's breeding season, the males will still get aggressive like uh aggressive like ATH. It's like an animal going into rut, you know. I mean, they just get shots of testosterone and they're ready to go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Huh. So if somebody if you guys had like a a non-local there and they were just going around, they see a sea line, they're like creeping up to take a picture, and these ones here where they didn't have that fear of people, like they could be in some real danger.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%. And so that was kind of the fear too, is like for locals, but then we also have a pretty large uh like uh rental boat fleet that uh that well a few of non-locals, and we have all sorts of like like it was December when it happened, but in a few months we had bear hunters starting to come up and all sorts of people coming up for guided trips. So that's where it's like we got we had a problem we had to take care of in a relatively quick manner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, talk about a liability for uh tourist season.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Great big monster like that. Uh yeah, going after people. So so he he was just he he lost his fear and he was just cranky with people. Yep, that's exactly it. Wow, and and so and then stalking people. I mean, that that's terrifying an animal that so I what they just kind of creep through the water at people or something like that, almost like a crocodile, or yeah, that's I mean, they'll dive, and so they're they're incredible swimmers, and so what's cra crazy is like uh I was in a canoe the other day out in front of town, we had a sea lion pop up right behind us out of nowhere, and it spooked me.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I wasn't really afraid, I wasn't afraid of it once I realized what it was, but uh it spooked me a little bit. Yeah. Because uh they're just that they'll dive down 20, 30 feet in a in an instant and all of a sudden pop right back up. And so it's uh it's just uh it's it's crazy how fast like for how big they are, how fast they can disappear.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And then uh are they fairly intelligent animals too, do you find?
SPEAKER_01You know, the they're definitely trainable. So that's where like when you start feeding them, they start, they start. I I I wouldn't say they're they're super intelligent. No, but um they start they definitely like at most predators start recognizing patterns, they start recognizing where to go to get the easy meals, and they'll hang around.
SPEAKER_00Yeah,
Skinning A Giant And Saving The Hide
SPEAKER_00gee.
SPEAKER_01So um so this one here, so what what did you end up doing with with all the Yeah, so um I ended up well, so I skinned it out, and it took me about five, six hours to skin it out by myself. I went through every knife I owned. Oh my gosh. It was I'd use a crane. And uh the height at some points was like two inches thick, if not a little more.
SPEAKER_00So is it thick for that? Is it for fighting with other males or tolerating the cold water? Is that it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's I it's for fighting for both uh uh fighting for the most part. I mean, once it gets to get to a certain size, I mean they're that they'll fight each other all the time. And they have a pretty good bubble blubber blubber layer, and so uh they stay pretty warm that way. And their hair isn't super thick. It's it's uh mostly hollow. Okay. Um but it's not super thick, so they have good blubber layer and then they have that thick skin for fighting. So I mean they're just built to be tough. Be tough, tough animals. Yeah.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00Well, I suppose like the being that size, like when they're coming into shore and things like that, like you'd think if they were delicate, they'd break open on a rock, basically, right? But they've got that thick skin that they can be that heavy and come up on shore and just be able to, you know, scrape against rocks and stuff and not worry about it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. And uh what's interesting is this guy how it was just all scarred up from fighting over the years. I mean, all over his body, he had scraps, his scars. I mean, I'm sure he probably had run-ins with other animals at some uh with uh killer whales at some. He had to have had run-ins with killer whales at some point. And so he had his height tells a story. But um I I want to say anywhere for uh between twenty and thirty at least. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Like probably twenty-five, thirty years old. That's cool. But yeah, so you you can eat sea lion in the paint, and they're actually I've uh I've I've never actually harvested the meat off of one. But I'm going to start because I was still like I was talking about a group of people that tried it and they're like and really trying to revive some traditional practices.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they're like, they're they're they're they're like, no, they're made of food. He's like, it's like eating beef. It's incredible. And so on. Yeah, this one I definitely didn't grab any meat off of though, because I because like I was saying, it was just kind of nasty, all warmed up and scarred up and old old and gross. But uh, so I ended up uh dumping the carcass and uh and then I I I regret this. I never held on to the head because I was so exhausted. I dealt with it for days and days on end. I flushed the high, I I got it, seen it out, flushed it, did all that. And it was just I was so exhausted, I was like, I don't even care. So when I dumped the body, I dumped the carcass, I I dumped the uh the head with it. But uh it was at the spine, I I kicked myself all the time because I was like, I want to go back and look for it, look for it. And I did, but I wasn't having been able to find it. Be good Eurofind that head. Oh man, that would have been an incredible Euro mount, but I was like, ah, I I I'm gonna I'm just leaving that one uh resolved that I'm gonna regret it. And I'm like, I'll just have to go get another euro uh another another sea line to get a euro mount.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So uh tell how so it took that long to skin it, and you said what you went through all these knives and everything, like just so tough.
SPEAKER_01Yep, it was insane. So we ended up uh so I ended up going through my normal skinning knives, and uh, and then I ended up using those Victorinoxes again, and I went through a bunch of Victorinoxes. I mean, it was just insane. And uh, but it took me about five, six hours to do it by myself, and then once I was done with it, I called up my brothers and they helped they helped me load everything up, get get it all taken care of, and uh and left from there. And then I have the I got the hide stand, uh, the hide stand uh at a tannery out of Anchorage, and um and now we actually our police department put in nine orders for uh we make trapper hats and all sorts of garments with it, and so it was nine orders for trapper hats for for the department and uh a sea otter and sea lion. So it's it's good but getting put to good use.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. That's cool. I I was just curious, uh, yeah, what you guys end up doing with there's so much to uh to deal with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh my gosh. It's tons of hide. And then I have a few other ideas that I'm working on with it. I'm kind of taking my time with it though. We got a lot going on, and uh, I got the hides that I I just I'll pull them out and show people just because it's pretty incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Keeping Wildlife Wild Around Town
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. So with it gone, with those two gone, do you think that anything will take its place or it could be a long time, or what are your predictions?
SPEAKER_01I even so that happened a little while ago. We'll see some big males uh out out in front of town at uh in the water uh in front of our harbors, but nothing nearly as aggressive. Like nothing nearly as aggressive. That and our chief our chief of police always jokes, he's like, if they do, I got my local exterminator ready.
SPEAKER_00So Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, you know you're all set now, you guys know what's going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we got we we got our uh got our program down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Um so yeah, no, I was just wondering that it but you say it for them to be that aggressive and actually be targeting people and stuff, it's it's fairly rare, even with the big males.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I so for for them to be targeting people, that's definitely a learned behavior. And so that typically they don't bother people. And so even with these big males coming in, they'll leave us alone. As long as they aren't getting fed and they aren't getting getting sick, uh, typically they're not too much to be concerned about.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. Um, so in your area though, have you guys ever heard of like dogs going missing or anything from sea lions?
SPEAKER_01You know, the every once in a while, uh not too much from sea lions. Um every once in a while you hear people that tell stories of like a sea lion went after my dog, but typically they're not not often.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah, I was just I was just wondering what if you guys had like that worry there or not really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I mean well, we're we're definitely pull our dogs out of the water if there's a sea line around. Like but uh typically the they they aren't really targeting them, so we we leave we tend they tend to leave us alone. And then um and then our b our bigger concern is just like is uh our b honestly our bigger concern is just the wolves and the bears around their dogs.
SPEAKER_00Right, yeah, wolves are just brutal. And then you guys have grizzlies too there. So I mean what's yeah, what's that like? You guys got sea lion monster beasts in the in your hire birth and all that there, and then you guys go out in the woods and then bam, grizzlies.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you what, I never go fishing and I never go home out in the woods or hiking or anything without a 44 mag. So I keep it on me. But uh, you know, our our b our brown bears that we have here, we don't have nearly as many as we do black, but there are some around. But typically we we don't have to worry about them too much around here. Um black bears, we don't gotta worry about. I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with black bears. They aren't that they they're not that terrible thing to be concerned about. No. Um so we we definitely keep our head on a swivel though, and we'd be bear aware, and then when we're when we're on the water around sea lions, um we all always keep a head out. We try to be careful around them and uh just not feed them, not get them used to people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that's the problem. I mean, I've read books and stuff like that on like animal attacks uh and things, and where it's wolves or it's bears or even mountain lines sometimes. And it's w you hear about this all it turns, you know, you'll hear about an attack, and like all it turns out there was a log truck driver in this remote area that used to feed this wolf part of a sandwich or a bear and things like that. People don't understand you you're doing so much damage. You've just signed that animal's death warrant or somebody else's because of the, you know.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. You hear like a fed bear is a dead bear, so that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh and what's funny is uh is we actually this last year, so uh we had a we have a black we had a black bear problem in town getting into trash cans. I mean, that's not unusual for Alaska, but these bears are starting to get up, we're starting to get pretty emboldened. And we actually had this one little like it's probably uh it was probably like 90 or 100-pound black bear actually uh poke his head into someone's kitchen during a barbecue. And that black bear, that black bear got the like I said, Fed Bear, dead bear. That black bear got euthanized by our local police department, and um they ended up giving the hide and the skull to our local tribe, and they're like, we don't know what to do with it. And so they're like, Brandon, do you want it? I'm like, sure, I'll take it. And so it's just the same kind of deal. It's uh it's uh fed bear, we gotta just always gotta be vigilant. Don't feed the wildlife, keep a uh keep them wild.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Sea Otters, Seals, And Subsistence Use
SPEAKER_00Um so then and then you do a little bit of hunting for uh seals too, as well, do you?
SPEAKER_01Yep, I do seal and sea otter mostly. And so they're big.
SPEAKER_00The sea otters are I've I trap, I do a bit of trapping here, and the pictures I saw that you had the sea sea otter, they're good size.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, so I mean the biggest one we've ever gotten was like 110 pounds. So on average we're going after yeah, they're huge, and so they and those suckers can be mean. I mean, I do you get any uh river otters around yet?
SPEAKER_00Um not that I've seen like we yeah, we've got we've got uh like just regular otters that I've trapped here, and like the biggest one, um maybe I don't know, uh 35 pounds, maybe. I have seen videos though, like I wouldn't I've got coon hounds and the you know hunt hunting coon and stuff, and I've seen videos of like uh just a regular otter taking on coyotes and like whooping their butt. So I would not have my dogs. We came across one once when we were out coon hunting, and I saw what it was, I'm like, no, I'm like, get out of there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, they are, I mean, so otters are just they're giant rodents that are just mean. They're just mean, so that's where sea otters can get they can get pretty mean too. So that's where uh that's always fun. That's always fun. We're using varmint rounds when we hunt for them. I'm using a 17 HMR. Oh, yeah. It does the trick, that's for sure. But uh the thing is you have to hit it. The shop placement is everything. And if shot placement's a little bit off of the 17 HMR, I'll reach into the water to grab a sea otter after we get it. And uh, I've had them turn on me before. That's scary. Like, that's oh my gosh. I mean, it's just like that they are they are meters not and just strong. And so that's where it's like when they've turned on me, put them back in the water and figure out how to get how to get at it and like put it down. But yeah, it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy. You've grabbed them and like thinking they were dead, and they're like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bite you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, we've we've had them like grab try and grab onto us. And seal, I mean, uh seal are are different. Seal are like they're they're a pretty easy animal to harvest, all things considered. And so um, but sea otters are just the the toughest animal I've ever I've ever seen in my life. Really? That's for sure. Oh yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_00I can't believe they're gonna be able to get it.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. No, they they get huge and the softest fur in the world, too, with over a million hairs per square inch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so they can withstand those cold temperatures so easily. I know fur, I I wish it would make the comeback because I mean, it is so nice. I mean, fur and then I used to I used to raise sheep or raise cows now, but and wool. Yeah I mean, nature's natural fibers are just so incredible. They work so well.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and it keeps you warm and it's yeah, it's that's the best and and sustainable. That's what I tell people all the time is that is uh it's fur is sustainable. It's a it's a great good better for the environment than any other material.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh absolutely. And um Yeah, that's that's crazy. I had no idea that sea otters got that big. I want to say maybe twenty-five pounds, give or take, is the biggest one I've gotten. Long. I've gotten some long ones, but um I'd never want to wrestle with them or anything, but I I can't imagine over a hundred pounds. That's crazy. So yeah. Oh yeah. Um now what would they have many predators come at them?
SPEAKER_01Basically the same thing as uh same thing as sea lions is the killer whales, and then uh when the young the young will get predated by uh by eagles. Right. Eagles and then if the wolves every once in a while, but that not super often.
SPEAKER_00No, the wolves would have to be pretty ambitious to try to go after one of them, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean the sea otters will haul out, and it's pretty it's it's not super uncommon. I mean uh but what when they're hauled out, the wolves wolves are opportunistic. They'll go they'll go after them if they're hauled out, but uh that's it's not nearly as common as like wolves going after deer or anything else, or I I even say beavers probably.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. We have a lot of beavers picked up here by uh the bears. The bears will definitely come and go after them. Yeah. Um yeah, that that's that's really cool. And then the seal, so do you guys eat the seal?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, so we do all sorts of. We use just about the entire seal. So we'll get like we'll we'll render the fat into oil, we'll uh you use the hides, um the liver, uh the live the liver is like a common delicacy amount among our people. I don't I don't eat it all that often, but uh and then the intestines. The intestines are actually I mean the small intestines are actually a quick delicacy. And uh I'll try and keep them all the time, uh, whenever I can, but sometimes just easier to leave them in the gut pile. Um and then the meat, we'll we'll we'll butcher the meat, I'll butcher up the meat, and uh and usually whenever I whenever I get a steal, it's getting passed around around to elders and everything. I'll I'll take some of the meat myself, but uh but but I I much I'm uh truth be told, I much prefer deer and moose and duck and yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I've never had a I'd like to try it, like I said, where they opened up the season here. Uh it's by lottery only. I'd I put in for it, I'm hoping sometime to get it just something cool, something unique. Um 100%. But with the amount of fish and stuff, dear, because what is it? I can't remember, is it polar bear or something? You can't eat their liver, something like that, because of the amount of fish that they eat, but the there's no issue with eating anything. I think it's the mercury levels or something, but there's no issue with eating anything on the seals.
SPEAKER_01You know, not much. So the biggest thing is that you gotta make sure you take care of it properly. If uh if you take care of it improperly, botulism can be a problem. Right. But besides that,
Final Thanks And Goodbye
SPEAKER_01not much. But hey, Ken, I actually um I'm actually having to take off, and I really appreciate you having me on here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, um hey, thanks for giving me your time, and uh I wish you the best of luck and like to talk to you again. And this was really interesting, Brandon, and I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on, and uh well yeah, definitely would love to talk to you again.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. All right, take care.
SPEAKER_01All right, you too. All right, bye bye.