Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Coach Browner: Creating Champions in Life - The Bishop Gorman Football Legacy
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Step inside the huddle with Brent Browner, the visionary head coach behind the national champion Bishop Gorman football team, as he unpacks the playbook of success for high school sports greatness. Our conversation traverses the captivating landscape of nurturing athletes in the spotlight, where the stakes are as high as the passions that drive them. Coach Browner is not just about wins and losses; he's a sculptor of character, molding young men who can shoulder the weight of expectations and emerge as leaders both on the field and in life.
Together, we navigate the complex dynamics of coaching a team with a target on its back, where every game is more than just a game—it's a test of resolve, unity, and strategy. Browner pulls back the curtain on the recruitment process, revealing how transparency and integrity lay the foundation for a legacy that extends beyond the scoreboard. Leadership isn't given, it's cultivated, and in this locker room, the journey from raw talent to seasoned captain is as rigorous as it is rewarding.
Lastly, we tackle the logistical struggle of scheduling games that sharpen competitive edges and the relentless pursuit of excellence that defines the Bishop Gorman program. From the high school gridiron to the potential of a national super league, the landscape of high school football is evolving—and Coach Browner is not just a participant but a pioneer, steering his team through the triumphs and tribulations of chasing the dream of back-to-back National championships. Join us for an insider's tour of what it takes to build a high school football dynasty, where every practice, every play, and every moment counts.
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High School Football Coach Discusses Success
Speaker 1You know , one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid . Welcome to Above the Whistle with your host , devin McCann . Welcome to another edition of Above the Whistle On this week's podcast . I'm fired up sitting here with the national champion , bishop Gorman , head coach Brent Browner . Brent , welcome to the show today . I mean it's an honor to have you you walk into this facility . I mean you guys are one of the premier football programs in the country , so you know . Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down and meet with us today .
Speaker 2No , thank you for having me . I'm definitely honored , so thank you so taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down and meet with us today . No , thank you for having me , I'm definitely honored .
Speaker 1So thank you so much , yeah , yeah . So I want to start off . We were talking a little bit earlier before the podcast start . This last season you guys started out at the number two ranked team in the entire nation With high school kids . I mean it's hard enough with college kids and professionals . You know you give them that high ranking to keep them focused , keep them grounded . With high school kids I can only imagine I mean number two ranking in the entire country . How do you keep them focused ? You know one game at a time .
Speaker 2You know , I think obviously we were blessed to have that ranking to start with . I think the kids understood the importance of it and I think that's the biggest thing . They understood the importance of it , understood what it could set them up for for some of their goals they wanted to have for that season . So that's kind of what keeps them grounded , keep them them going as just them understanding one , being thankful and grant , you know , the gratitude of being able to have that , but then to understanding it , it puts them in a place where they're going to have a chance to compete for something that they've been wanting to do .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . So when you come to a , place like Bishop . Gorman , I mean year in , year out . I mean state championship is the goal , but the national championship , I mean you come here and you're playing for higher stakes , right ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . I think that's one of the reasons you know , the guys have come here A lot of people do come here . A lot of people want to come here is to be able to compete for that and to have a chance to do that and play some of the best teams around the country and , you know , do that whole experience . So I think that's a big , big part of why , you know , kids do come here for sure .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah , why you know kids do come here for sure . Yeah , yeah , yeah . So I mean you guys were nine and oh , in state last year . Uh , three and oh again some of the top 25 , um teams in the entire country , including corner Canyon . Um , as you know , I'm from the Draper area , so that one hurt it stung a little bit , but um , I mean how , how do you , when you look back on last season , what are some of the best memories you have from last year and downs through all those four years ?
Speaker 2as you're looking at them , you know , just every day in practice , kind of looking at them , Like I remember when Micah was a freshman , right , I remember when Elijah was a freshman , I remember those guys had , you know , their first day at practice and things like that . You could see that with them and but then you know , watching them be leaders , watching them really really take a really really exceptional direction toward their path as far as what they wanted to do , their discipline . You know how they , how they were able to kind of like gain that discipline , that that sustained them through a whole season or even for four years here . So that's one of the biggest memories of that is just , you know that class was just the first class and I was head coach and I was still learning , yeah , and I never know head coach before . So we all kind of learned it all together we would say a lot of times during
Building Character
Speaker 2that time .
Speaker 2So , um , you know just that overall experience with those guys and even at the end of the banquet , just kind of looking at them like man , like you know we all kind of came . You know , it's like the only thing we came up together , Right , Um , you know when , when I took over , we weren't where we had been . You know , even by a long shot , Right , I think we were like we're definitely , we're definitely one of the top 500 , maybe even 2000 or something like that . So we had really fallen pretty far from where we had been . So that's that class and that was one of the things that we had talked about just coming in Like this is a class that's going to be able to bring us back up to where we want to be at Okay .
Speaker 1Okay , does that create a special bond ? I mean you talk about Mikey , I mean you can tell kind of when you talk about him and some of the other players there's , you know , a certain love and just kind of a family , right yeah ?
Speaker 2yeah , I think it's , and the school's always been like that . It's a real family environment for these kids and for us as coaches . Like our kids are running around here , my kids run around here all day at practice too , all the coaches , stuff like that , and you could see that and that rubs off on you know they see us being dads and fathers , see us being dads and fathers , and you know they can kind of relate to that , as you know your second dad , father , you know the other father figure within this whole thing , as coaches usually are for these kids , um , and you know those guys , just it is . You just watch them grow from freshmen and it's kind of how they grow and how they develop the mistakes they make , the goods , the bads . And you know , as a football team in a program , through those four years we went through goods and bads , right . So we all kind of grew up all together , had some painful times , had some good times , and that's what makes family special , right , you stay together through the goods and the bads .
Speaker 1Absolutely , absolutely . So I mean you talked about it . Bishop Gorman , you know , has always kind of been one of those perennial programs , but when you took it over , you know kind of a little bit of a downward trajectory . How did you come into a successful program like Bishop Gorman , though , and go ahead and kind of put your own imprint and fingerprint on the program ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I thought about everything like that . But experience of being a player I think helps probably the most right . So you know , you look at , when I was just position coach , I was just taking all the stuff that you know as an actual player I didn't like from a coach , right , like took all that stuff out and put all the good stuff in , right , and the same thing , um , you know , as taking over as head coach , you know I saw a lot of issues that we had , so I took out all the bad stuff and then started injecting some new stuff in different ideas and , um , you know , more principle based , more character based , um , and character-based and you know , more family-based , and I think that's that's probably the biggest imprint that I think you know changed the culture of the program .
Speaker 1Okay , so you talk about you know you you added those kind of character building , you know , I mean just the way you you talk , like I said , about some of your players and watching them kind of grow up with you over these last you know four years . What are kind of the key foundational pieces or characteristics you want to kind of instill in these young men ?
Speaker 2Yeah , you know , getting my master's is kind of in coaching too . I read a lot of books and did a lot of like searching for that like a different part of coaching . Right , we always do the X's and O's , we do all those clinics and everything like that , or even playing , and all that experience is great . But I think you know , going through and really focusing on the character of the kids , making sure we understand why we're here , um , you know what we're really doing here . It is high school football , right , and it's it's a stepping stone for the rest of their lives . Um , so you know , like the character piece uh , I don't remember if it was a coach teacher , somebody said that , but it actually gets scheduled . Like we have a scheduled time , like actually today is character building , so before we start practice , like we'll be inside that big lecture hall and we'll be doing character building for 30 minutes before we start . And the principle behind that is I watched it , it attempted to be done so many times by different coaches , but usually , as a coach , we do it after practice or we do it at the most undane time that you know it just doesn't work right after practice . Everybody's tired . You know the kids can't hear you , they can't listen . I mean , even as a coach , I mean I'm like I can barely listen to the coach talk about character because I'm tired from all the yelling and all the stuff that we do . So we really separated , we make its own , it's its own entity , it's its own entity , its own practice .
Speaker 2And when you do that , you emphasize it to the point where it is important . You know you have to have your iPad or paper and pencil . It's you're taking notes , you're actively doing stuff , you're actively talking . Nobody's just in there , just like everybody in the room talks , everybody gets asked questions . It's an active part where it's important . And when you make it important , then the kids understand it's important . If I just do it at a random time , or you know , I want to give this great speech about character and we've been outside in 115 degree heat for two and a half hours and I'm talking another 15 minutes outside , like you know , they just can't hear you . So , um , I think that's a big , a big switch and a big change of of what I thought was was one of the most important things to develop .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's . That's interesting because , you know , as I coach , a lot of times I you know I try to instill those characteristic type development pieces in the coaching aspect of things . But the timing of it you mentioned , yeah , like I usually do it before we , you know , we do our conditioning and kind of running to get warmed up and then I go into a five minute , you know spill on something . They're probably not listening that well at that point .
Speaker 2Um , I think to kind of have a dedicated time um set aside to actually go through that I think that that's huge .
Speaker 1Um , I mean , that's definitely a takeaway I'll I'll take from this podcast , that's for sure .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's it's one of those things , like I said it , you know it was brand new . I'd never done it before . You know , wrote a bunch of stuff up , had the PowerPoint slides , everything like that , and when we put it in the first time the kids were kind of taken up . They didn't know what to do . They're like what are we doing ? I'm like we're going to be sitting here doing character and they're kind of looking at me like so the film study is like you know , like how did you know what's good character ? What are these things ? What are morals ? What are values ? What are these things that you think everybody knows or they have a good grasp on ? But it's a very loose grasp . Yeah , right , you know , and , and sometimes even at home , as much as we do it , you get busy with everything else and you , you miss pieces you don't realize you've even missed . You thought , oh yeah , I cover , they should know this . And then you come to find out they don't really don't you know . So , uh , that , that that worked out for us , I think .
Speaker 1That's interesting . Yeah , I love that . Um you know , with that said um , do you involve , you know former players or or have just you know , business leaders ? Um you know former athletes or even current athletes that come in ?
Speaker 2Yeah , we do . Yeah , we do . We've had a lot of former athletes . We've been blessed to have some NFL players that aren't from here but have came back and done some things . Coaching staff has done it before too .
Speaker 2When we first started , it was really , you know , I didn't want them to always just listen to me , right , like sometimes you get tired of hearing just me . So , you know , coach Canfield , coach Kaz , everybody had a part of it . As we've kind of evolved and as we've got a little bit more busy , I probably much take over the majority of it now , but we still really , we really go back to some of the things that some of those other coaches brought up and they brought their own piece and it was , it was a different for the coaches too . Like , hey , yeah , like you're doing a character presentation Like this is what your day like respect , your loyalty , your this and um , having those pieces , uh , again , just listening to me all the time . Sometimes I was a good boy , so having other voices saying the same thing , um , and that's what you want is apparently you want other voices saying the same things to your kids , um , in a positive way . So it starts to stick right .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . So do you have kind of a curriculum you kind of go through every year , now that you've been doing it for three , four years ? So do you have kind of a program that's ?
Speaker 2got to change and you know , I noticed this this very last time . It's gone faster because I've got so many kids that have gone through so many years , so I've been implementing and changing different things , adding new things , um , only because you know these guys have a good foundation . Like I said , they do have to participate . Everybody's talking . So , um , when I'm listening to them talk and how quickly they're answering , okay , I need to step it up and I need to change some stuff .
Speaker 2So I've been , yeah , I've been changing some stuff , yeah , I've been changing stuff and you know you start with , uh , younger kids too and they get you know a little bit more of the , the on the spotlight type thing .
Speaker 1Yeah , so have you seen any of the impacts of this out on the actual field ?
Speaker 2Um , yeah , I do , I know I see it more when we , when we're around , when we're around everywhere else and we're like when we travel , you know , when we travel , one of the things that I think one of the my favorite moments , probably going to all these seasons , is hearing the feedback from people that around the country , when we're on a plane or wherever we're going which we do travel a lot Um , just how respectful the kids are , how much , um , how much consideration they have , um , how they carry themselves around , you know , a big airport and things like that , opening the doors , yes or no , sir , those kinds of things .
Speaker 2You kind of see that , that reflection of that . So it's always good to you know , walk behind them . And then you know older couple like , is this , you know , is it ? Is it a college person ? Is this a college ? Like no , it's not a college . And then you kind of tell them it's high school Cause like , wow , I've never seen high school kids um , that respectful , that , that that nice and things like that . So it works . You can see it more probably in there than most places right , yeah , yeah , the way they conduct
Coaching and Developing Student-Athletes
Speaker 2themselves .
Speaker 1Um , cause I , because I would imagine , I mean , as you know , a top team in the nation you guys are going to have a target on your back constantly and there is just , you know , you're going to hear comments and people are going to be constantly poking at you guys and things like that . So to be able to keep your demeanor , have that conduct of just no , this is how we act , we're professional here , we're kind and courteous , things like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I could see the character development you're doing with the kids paying off in those instances , in those situations .
Speaker 2So yeah , I commend you on that . That's really it . Thank you .
Speaker 1I have not heard that before and it's really cool .
Speaker 2Okay , cool yeah , thanks .
Speaker 1So I mean , what do ?
Speaker 2you think the most ?
Speaker 1important quality for a coach to have .
Speaker 2I know that one has changed probably over the years and I think it changes by what your role is in the building . As I think about that question , right , as a position coach , you're tighter with the kids . It's like your little group , which I loved that's probably one of my favorite times in coaching is just being a position coach , having your group of kids . There's a compassion level that you got to have . Right . We always think football is tough and it is super tough , but you got to have right . We always think football is tough and it is super tough , but you got to have a real compassion and a real , you know , love for these kids and the bottom of it right , like that's got to be the guiding star of what you do . I think that's a that's a big piece that we all have . But I think as football coaches we all show it differently . You know it comes very like you . If you're a football coach or any coach in that matter you've been coaching for you know however many years you just get that compassion for these kids . You want them to do good . Sometimes it does correlate to it's almost like it's your own kid , where you're really really hard on them because you want them to do good , or you see these qualities that they could be great at and they're not achieving those things . And it's a temperament , too , that I've changed .
Speaker 2I think it was um Ed Orgeron . I was reading a book or heard a podcast something from him . He was like when I was a D line coach , I was hard as nails Right , and as a head coach you just can't be . Yeah , it's a whole different deal . So you have to learn . You know , I've had to learn a whole different side of me . Even some of my older players that come back like man , you're nice , now it's like not nice it's like it's a different deal , kind of like the uh , the dad , you know .
Speaker 1I mean I'll use my dad for an example my wife knows him , as you know , grandpa and you know , and he's a super , you know , just cute and friendly and super loving with the grandkids . He wasn't like that with me , you know you do you evolve and as your title changes , I grandpa , you can afford to be as dad , you got to kind of be more disciplinary and a little bit stricter .
Speaker 2So you know , same thing You're .
Speaker 1you're seeing the macro picture . You have to kind of , you know , take a step back and be a little bit more all encompassing and a little bit kinder . Exactly , let exactly let those uh position coaches be the hardest nails guys , right yeah , yeah , and that's , and it's .
Speaker 2It's important to have good coaches that are willing to do that and willing to instill that so you can because , again , you I . One thing I've watched , and it's the it's the weirdest thing and I would relate it to something I don't get into is like the seven on seven . So we let them do the seven on seven on their own . They , they have their own teams . I think it's great . Um , it's not always , sometimes a little bit much . We practice a lot , so it's not always my favorite thing , but they love to do it , right , they love it , so you can't take it away from them . They love football , right ?
Speaker 1It's a part of football they love . If I was .
Speaker 2And I stay away from it a lot because I know whenever I show up to like a game , I could just see like a different demeanor , like they're all like crazy nervous . I'm like I'm just watching . I'm not , you know , like this doesn't judge if you're going to play or not , I'm like you know just those kind of demeanor things . So I get what you're saying . It is a different deal when you see so many different light .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , like that , did you go and recruit these guys and actively bring them in . I mean , how have you kind of built that leadership team around you to have success ?
Speaker 2Well , let's start . Offensive coordinator Coach Canfield was here before . We kind of like ships in the night when I had just got hired back . He was just leaving . So that was a guy that I I really respected , loved what he did for the time that we were together . So when I took over as as head coach , he was one of the first guys I reached out to about hiring . At the time Chris Brown was here too . He was linebackers coach , strength coach and a guy I trusted with everything , love to death , and I promoted him through what we had already kind of done .
Speaker 2And a lot of stuff is in-house and it goes to the thing of a lot of resumes and things like that going through and understanding kind of the culture here and the real culture . That's kind of that nobody would understand unless you're actually in the building . It's . It's even hard to say it like that Right , when I interview somebody or hire somebody , I'm , you know , in the interview if you're asking like , hey , you know , you know why do you want to be here ? Well , I want to win a national championship . Well , you're probably not going to get hired , you know , like that's not what we're doing here . We're developing young men , we're making sure that . You know the .
Speaker 2The biggest reason why I got into coaching was only just because I didn't have a lot of help when I was coming up and made it pretty far , I thought with like zero help and I thought like , hey , what if I could help or give somebody some knowledge that I didn't have ? And I wonder how far they're going to get . And that was the biggest reason why I got into it . And that's really the kind of guys that I'm looking to hire more than anything Guys that can instill the knowledge of them , playing the knowledge of them as far as being good mentors and stuff for these kids , because they are the biggest .
Speaker 2You know , I'm a piece of it , but a position coach , like I said before , your position coach means everything to you . Your head coach is a head coach . Your position coach is your guy . He's everything to you . So having the right group of guys around these kids is more important than just making sure you have a good name or your x and o's or what you've done . You know , hey , we , we did 10,000 yards passing and did it like that . That's all great and all that . But you know how do you relate to the kids . So I might have gone off the rail with that question a little bit no , no , you know , you know like getting those guys in , like it's .
Speaker 2It was always important . And then we were , you know , luckily , when Chris moved on to go to Hawaii . Um , chris had brought uh , another great coach , uh , coach Cosgrove , uh , which ended up taking over a strength job and defensive coordinator . So having guys in the building is good because there will be turnover you know .
Speaker 1So that's the big part . So I mean you've talked about it a little bit but I mean you guys had eight seniors this last year , right , signing national letter of intents . I mean that seems to be a big thing for you and give me you know , correct me if I'm wrong , but you guys kind of make a big to do about it . You know , have kind of a whole presentation and everyone you know kind of a whole presentation and everyone you know kind of announces where they're going . I mean , is that kind of the highlight or one of the highlights every year for you to see ? You know , hey , I helped develop this kid and now they're going to go on to the next level and go play college at .
Speaker 2You know yeah , that's the , that's the ultimate goal of the program . I and I get it . I understand , you know on the outside you're looking like you're just worried about winning a national championship , worried about winning a state championship . If I told you , we don't talk about it that much in the building , like we just don't really don't talk about it a lot .
Speaker 2I mean , you wouldn't believe how much we don't talk about that piece , but we do talk about that development . We do talk about you know making development . We do talk about you know making sure that they're ready to go . Like our job is to make sure they're prepared to go to college . Like this school is a college preparatory school . 98 percent of kids that go here go on to college . Some some fashion right . So football is the same way . Like we are part of the arm of the school is we're getting them in their specific area , getting ready to go to their school . For whatever they're going to go to , just like robotics , just like theater does , just like every other part of the school , has a function with that . That's the . That's the main goal and it is uh , it's something again I , when I was getting my master's , I really stuck onto after reading a book is just knowing your own measure of success means you're defining what success is for you , not what out outward .
Speaker 2If you let the outward world define the success for you , then you'll just always be disappointed , like you'll always be disappointed . It'll never be enough . You'll always be looking on Instagram and figuring out why you don't have this or why you don't have that , and that's like my measure of success , like how many , how many guys are we able to place , whether it be high level , division one , division two , division three , juco , whatever it is making sure that any kid that goes through the program is one , is prepared to go day one and be a college football player , and then making sure that they get to the right level where they can play , and that's one of the biggest like that's .
Building Leadership Through Hard Work
Speaker 2That's the goal . That's what we talk about more than anything we don't talk about . Hey , we're going to go win a national championship . There's runway state championships here .
Speaker 1Like we just it , we just don't talk about it we just that's a byproduct yeah everything else you're doing right yeah , I mean , you do the small things eventually I mean , bill walsh was notorious for that right the scoreboard will take care of itself right , exactly you just do the small things . Focus on what you can control . I know that's cliche in football world right but it is , it's focus on what you't control right we just talk about .
Speaker 2I mean , it's we ? There's no magic pill . No , it's hard work and discipline . That is it . There's nothing else , there's no other . You know , nothing else is going to get you anywhere else besides those two things . And that's what we talk about and that's what we instill , like literally every single day with the kids . It's hard work and discipline . It's hard and you know you can work hard and be disciplined and still not get what you want . Like that's life .
Speaker 1It is . Sometimes the talent is just not there . You can have all the heart in the world .
Speaker 2Sometimes the talent is lacking . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1But I think , more often than not , it's the talent that's there , it's the hard work and discipline that are lacking .
Speaker 2Right , exactly .
Speaker 1Yep . So do any of these recruiters come and ask you like okay , you know we're looking at this kid . What ? What do you think of him ? Like , what are the top two or three questions that a recruiter would ask you about an individual that they're , you know , pursuing ?
Speaker 2Right and it kind of goes back to okay , so the the job , our job , is to make sure they get onto college . That question is the foundation . If anybody's going to get a scholarship , you could be the best kid in the world and 90% of the college maybe somebody takes you , but 90% of college are always going to ask myself or position coach , what kind of character is he , what problems has he had , All those things . So it goes back to why do we spend 30 minutes every Wednesday on character building ? Because that is the number one thing that's going to get you to college , beyond everything else that you do . If you could be a great player , all that stuff .
Speaker 2If you don't have that part , or if you're a coach , like yeah , he's , you know , you know , as a coach , you got to tell the truth too . Like you can't lie to him because then they won't respect you and then they'll mess up for everybody else , Right , Um , that comes through here that wants to go to that school . So it's that's why we spend so much time on that piece , because it is the ultimate piece of deciding whether I mean , before they offer you a good coach will text me , call me , and it's always hey , I want to get a little insight about him . You know what is he . You know how's home life . You know how are his grades . How is he as a teammate ? What's his character like ? Has he ever been in trouble ? Like that is every day for every single kid that gets a an offer , like before you're going to go on somewhere , your head coach , whoever it is , is going to have to sign off on those things absolutely .
Speaker 1Have you ever had to unfortunately , you know tell the truth and talk to someone and say , hey , yeah , always .
Speaker 2yeah , you have , because the . The reason why you tell the truth is because if you don't and they go , then it's going to taint the rest for any other kid that's going to go behind them . Or like , hey , yeah , we got this kid and you know , they said he was this and he wasn't , so we're not going to go recruit there anymore . Luckily we don't have to live in that world a lot . You know , this is a very , very tough program . We were really tough on the kids so they understand that piece very , very early . So if they're that kind of kid , they don't usually stay . Yeah , right , this is . You know you find out really quick . This isn't the place for you and you don't . You know either you get in line or you you got to go .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I'm assuming you know , like any good program right , I mean , it starts from the top down . But with that said , a lot of the enforcers typically come from within . And so you know those seniors , those juniors , you know some of those kids you started as freshmen with . I'm assuming they start taking more of an active role as leaders , as you know . Just being vocal on , hey , this is our standard , this is how we measure ourselves , this is how we conduct ourselves .
Speaker 2And they kind of enforce it you know , within the ranks .
Speaker 2Yeah , they do , and the best part is when you're doing it right , those guys will do a lot of that piece . Um , as the after every practice , you know , the positions meet each other . That's for me as a head coach . I don't meet with anybody , I just meet with the captains . So that's kind of my position group and we do just like the whole team gets a character building the captains get . You know , we spend time doing leadership , because here's the hardest thing and I've always been kind of a captain at the places I've been , which just kind of is what it is . But there was no . You know , as you're coming up , there's no . You just become captain , right , like hey , everybody's , what's your captain ? Okay , what do I ?
Speaker 1do now ? Yeah , like , yeah , what do I do now ?
Speaker 2All right , yeah , you're there . And then you know , the biggest change , too , that I made was you have to teach them how to be leaders . You know , first thing , you know the . The question you have to pose them that they've never had poses how do you get somebody to do something that they're not already doing ? How do you motivate them without yelling at them and cussing at them ? And they kind of look at you blank like cause they don't know what other tools to use . So you're trying to give them tools so that when they go and they're your voice in the locker room or the voice wherever you guys are at that they're able to do that in the correct way . Otherwise , just naming somebody captain and putting a C on them doesn't it ? Just fades , it doesn't work and it doesn't sustain it .
Speaker 2And one of the things that we've done just happened . What I love it is we've been able to have it went from four captains to five captains . The reason I did that was we've been able to have a junior be a captain for the last four years actually . But what that does is it's it already has somebody that's already been through the leadership part , so they're already kind of ready to go Right and and then when we're in the January part , when we get back and started , you already have there's already a captain still on the team . It's not like everybody's trying to figure out who's captains .
Speaker 1Who's your first ?
Speaker 2Yeah , there's no reset , like you already have somebody that was there . Luckily , we have got two of them this year that are already , you know , kind of built in . So it was funny , I think . I asked we were , as coaches , like hey , we got to pick captains , cause we have two . It doesn't feel like we don't have caps . Like , hey , we got to pick caps before we get done with spring ball and all this stuff , because usually we've already picked them , because you only have one right . So that's a big piece .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2Now do you guys as coaches select ?
Speaker 1those captains , or is it kind of , you know ? No , the kids pick .
Speaker 2Yep , kids pick , we just tally it up and then you know sometimes we think you know , here's your coach you're looking at . You know sometimes we're looking like , well , it's getting close , and they're close , you know , which is kind of cool , as you kind of look at it like okay , this is who . I love the way the kids pick , because it lets you know who they see . Who we see and who they see sometimes can vary , differ pretty well , or for them you'll see , like is it a ? What I think it always starts at first is the popularity contest , and you saw first my concern , you know , is always is it just the most vocal ?
Speaker 1Because just because you're vocal and loud and brash doesn't mean you're a natural leader right . You could just be a brash asshole .
Speaker 2Right , exactly .
Speaker 1You like to talk , and so I think allowing the kids to kind of , you know , select who they think is the captain , but then also having the oversight on the coaches , is probably smart .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . And , like I said , what it does is it shows us who they are as a team , right , like who they're picking and that kid's character . It shows us what kind of team we're going to have , right , like you kind of say , okay , this is quiet team , you got three or four quiet guys , one , one more vocal guy . Sometimes you can see a little bit louder team . Right , you got three or four loud guys , only one quiet guy , and you know , it's just , it's a cool , it's a cool experience . I mean , it's cool for me to kind of watch what they pick and just see you know where they're at , see where they're mentally at , because we always think we know , but we don't know .
Speaker 1Right Now , do you adapt your leadership training based on the personalities of these different , you know , captains .
Speaker 2I tell them more to be themselves within what they need to do . Like , all of them are going to have a different piece , right . You're going to have the quiet leader . You're going to have kind of those characteristics of each , each one . You kind of get all those , luckily , in each piece . You'll have a captain of captains which is going to be the captain of those captains , right , and you just tell them more . Moreover , you're looking to be who you are , because nobody's going to believe you if , all of a sudden , you've been quiet the whole time , you just start barking and yelling all that stuff . That's not gonna . That's not why you got picked right . There's something that you're doing that everybody else is respecting . Do that , well , and then when you need to interject , then you interject . It's going to mean a lot more than than you know being loud just because you're a captain . Now , right .
Speaker 1Right , right , okay , cool . Um , what did you take ? You mentioned earlier . I mean , you were a player , first and foremost you . You went to Northern Iowa and then you went to arena football . Um , were there coaches that you know you kind of worked with ?
Speaker 1you know , as you went through football , I know you kind of mentioned earlier , there was a lot of things that you wish you had had when you were younger . But you know , when you get to you know some of those higher levels . Were there things that you were able to kind of take away from some of those coaches or yeah , you know , I took a lot from other players truthfully um you know , I look at you know , as we were gonna do this interview , I kind of thought about coming up like you
Player Development and Team Preparation
Speaker 1know I was .
Speaker 2I was different , probably grew up different than most Iowa . Parents were not into sports . Dad was , you know , state champion wrestler back in the day , track star , all that stuff . And then when it came to me he just was like you got to go to school , it's all about school , school , school . Didn't want me playing football , told me I was never going to be good , all that you know , like just kind of on my own , because I wanted to do it as I went to college . I think that kind of background kind of stuck with me . It was more like I'm doing it on my own .
Speaker 2I remember I was a sophomore , I'd started as a freshman in college . As a sophomore , jerome had came down Peterson , he came down from the 97 Nebraska National Championship team and he was a corner . I was a corner and he was better than me Seniors . I mean he was better than me . And there's two things you can do at that point in time . You can get mad or do all that stuff where you can learn Right , like you can . When he comes in , you can act like just a terrible person to him , right and nothing like that . Or be honest with yourself . I tell the kids all the time just don't lie to yourself and don't lie . I didn't lie to myself Like he was just better than me , just started . I mean , the crazy thing . I had just started playing corner . I was playing receiver all the way up until then . I got switched , as you know , in spring ball . So I learned a ton from him , learned a ton of different things , because I was open to just getting better , because your ego didn't get in the way right , and you allowed .
Speaker 1I'm assuming you just asked him questions upon questions . What's going ?
Speaker 2on , kenny har came in same thing , like we had a lot of guys that came in and just learned a lot through them . Not that you know , not that it wasn't . You know there's a different development that happens at each level . Right College is a different development , high school is a different development and professional is a different development . And I think the development mostly comes in high school . If you're done right in college , it gets to a point where you're you kind of got to know what you're doing already , cause if you don't , by next year somebody else is going to be coming in .
Speaker 1I was going to say someone else will .
Speaker 2Yeah , and then as a professional , you just need to make sure you know the playbook and if you don't have the skills already , they're not there to teach you skills . No right , like you got to have , that piece has already got to be done , so that might went off the rails a little bit , but that's uh , that's where I kind of got most of my stuff . I had great coaches , um , and I took a lot of things as a coach now that I liked that they did , and I just got rid of all the stuff I didn't like . That okay , okay , you know yeah , no , absolutely .
Speaker 1I think that's what anyone you know , anyone smart , that's what they do . You know , don't recreate the will . Take the , the things that that work and implement them into your life , and the things that don't get them out , you get rid of them . Yeah , um , I mean so you are , you're a defensive guy . Um , you guys had probably one of the most offensively prolific years this last year . As a defensive guy , I mean , do you take credit in , you know , putting a , a scout team on the the other side and getting them to play at a high level , or you know ?
Speaker 2I think you know . The truth is I love special teams the best . Okay , because as a head coach , I'd love it probably the best , because the first , that's the only coordinator that actually deals with every single kid on the field Right , definitely by trade , I'm naturally a defensive guy , offensively , like I said , when I first went to college , I got recruited as a receiver , so I've kind of been through the whole ring of all those things . Our offense is you can't just shake a head , I can't even believe some of the stuff they were able to do , but it came from so much hard work , so much discipline . Obviously you can't take away from anything that those guys are able to do . You can't take away from anything that those guys are able to do . But some of the stuff that we did was just the coaches did such a good job for so many years with that group of guys . Like I think even in your game corner cannon game , there's plays that we ran in there , that I think , coach Canfield , we had practiced , like in May , like in spring ball , and it just happened to be that we didn't practice all week for those stuff . Like it just happened to be the right time at the right place for that .
Speaker 2I think the year before it had to throw coach off a little bit . The year before , um , we had a couple guys that weren't able to play in the first game . So 10 minutes before the game , coach cosgrove basically scrapped the defense we've been working on and we ran a whole different defense 10 minutes before the game . It was didn't , they didn't get , they just weren't able to play that game . Um , so just , you know , different guys were in the game , we , you know we hadn't really . You know they had practiced it . We do a ton of practice . They put a lot of work in . They know the concepts . I think , and that's the biggest thing , they're developed to the point where , if we do make a change , we can make it having to without worrying . Are they going to know what to do ? They know exactly what to do .
Speaker 2Like I said , it's not that we hadn't done that defense before , we just weren't planning on doing it that day , right , but personnel-wise we had to switch personnel . So we said , all right , this is the best defense for that personnel . Same thing with offense it's a very , it's a . It's a . It's a such a well-run offense because it's just what the defense gives you . It's not a greedy offense , it's hey , if they're under this , we're into that , very this , we're into that and it's . It's very , it's very methodical in that process , right , it's one of the funnest things to kind of watch too . It's just the maturation of those guys and how they've been able to develop into the players that they are confident . You know not . You know that was the other thing too .
Speaker 2It wasn't a cocky office , it was confident yeah they stepped on the field like they just knew they'd put so much time , so much work in that it was gonna work like whatever was , whatever coach called , it was gonna work right right it didn't work that time , it's gonna work the next time .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know so so I mean , you're , you know your quarterback . He's moving on um this next year . When does the process start for you guys and I ? I mean I'm sure I know the answer to this , but you know , when does the process start for you guys to start looking at next season ?
Speaker 2Yeah , obviously we're thinking about it all the season before , just kind of what's going on , what's coming up with that . But you know , we start January , january , yeah , we start January . And here's the deal . If we didn't start in January , the kids would be started .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2They're
Strong Work Ethic and Schedule
Speaker 2working . You know there's a period where we do things on purpose , where they work out by themselves so that they can kind of get that . So it's establishing work ethic right . We're making sure they understand a work ethic . And work ethic is every single day , whether you want to do it or not , whether it's . You know you're happy about doing it on things like that . But you can only really get that if they do it by themselves . Like it's not mandatory for the first two weeks , but everybody's here , yeah Right . Like if it's mandatory , then it's like oh well , you're making a beer . No , and the hard part is like sometimes I can't get him to go home , you know .
Speaker 1Like , hey , man , I don't know if I'd go home too . I mean , this place is incredible .
Speaker 2So you know that's that that part of it is , and it's a it's a crazy long process . We always it's the grind . It's been talked about the grind for years and years and years and it is . It's a big grind and when you can get through that grind , I , the guys that were able to play last year , they've they've had that grind for four years and they just understand it , they embrace it . There's no , you know , it's just . This is what we're that hard work and how much work it's going to take to be good .
Speaker 1It takes so much work .
Speaker 2It's not . We didn't show up .
Speaker 1No , no , yeah , yeah , it's always . I mean , there are programs out there that , yeah , it's you know , may start rolling around . It's like , oh , okay , it's time to start thinking about football again and and I , I'm all for you know playing multiple sports and you know having activities outside of football , but if you want to be a champion , I mean it takes the grind , as you said , and yeah , that process starts early . Um , with the , uh , the amount of games you guys play out of state , how involved are you with kind of deciding , okay , these are the teams we want to put on our schedule ? Um , how far out does that even occur ? You know things like that .
Speaker 2Uh , pretty much me , much me um . And you know , we , we talk as coaches like hey , who we get . I think the process is it's a lot harder than people think . They're like oh , why don't you play this team ? Like well , sounds good . Uh , do they want to play us ?
Speaker 2I know you want us to play them . Do they want to play us ? So actually finding teams that want a player are are a lot trickier than people think . Then dates and times have to match up and then travel . There's a lot of pieces that go into just getting any single game right . Like I think people think it's easier , like , oh , you should just play this team and this team and this team Like , well , they don't want to play us , they already have a game and they can't travel . So how is this game going to come about that you want to watch ? I think it'd be .
Speaker 2You know , I think as high school football changes and even as college football changes , I think there probably be some stuff down the line that will make it easier on everybody . But you know , we just look for , you know , to your point , like what do we do ? We talk about national championship . No , there's gonna be a point when we really really announce the schedule of the guys and I'm just trying to pick four teams that can whip your ass . And what are you going to do ? And that's the talk . I'm going to pick four teams that can beat you Period , point blank . That's what it is , and I tell them all the time . You're probably not the best team on the field at the time . They're more athletic . They have this , they have that . There's this dude , there's this dude . We have a lot of guys too .
Speaker 1Don't get you know not to say that .
Speaker 2But you know , it's just what are you going to do with that information , you know , and just kind of put it to them like that , like we're gonna go play whoever the best we can go play , yeah , and things happen like we .
High School Football Logistics and Challenges
Speaker 2Last year was a pretty much the craziest debacle ever with that piece . We were searching to get more out of state games , so petitioning for that , and then when the association all the way came back , they took out of state games away , which made , you know , wasn't what anybody in the association wanted . You know , I don't think for for us to play more in state games , so that that happened . And then there was a point where we lost games and it can be pretty nerve-wracking because I don't think we didn't get the Miami Central game scheduled to , like May 1st , 22nd or something like that , something crazy .
Speaker 1Late in the , something like something crazy . Late in the- .
Speaker 2Crazy , crazy . And it was like we're searching to find anybody who's in the top five we can play . They think there were two or three at the time , or no . There were three or four at the time , right ? So everybody else already had schedule full , so there's nobody else to play . Luckily they had one opening . So we had to change all the schedule I had before . A lot of times I'll have a schedule built in january , okay , and by february , april . That whole thing got scrapped because either the team we really want to play can't play on that week , so we have to go back into the drawing board and we have to figure , you know , fix it and try to just play that . You know it's more .
Speaker 2Just the logistics of it Like if it's a top five team , like they're going to trump everything else , yeah , so we might have had something else on the schedule , but guess what ? I got to play this other team . I got to play the top five team , but only , unfortunately , they can only play on this one date .
Speaker 1Do you ever foresee you know kind of a super league , if you will , for high school football , where you do you take the top ? You know 50 programs across the country . Yeah . And do divisions with it , or are we starting to get so off the rails with ?
Speaker 2what I think you would need pretty big , pretty big , heavy backing by a network that would put that on . That would be the biggest piece , because the travel is the hardest part , right , the schooling , because kids still got to go to school . It's not , you know , college all the way Right , so they have to go to school . I think what you could see is and I've always kind of said this so play your schedule , do all that stuff and at the end of the year , like an ESPN or or one of these rating systems has okay , we got the top four . You start with top four teams , top four teams and our ESPN poll , we have these four . So I know you have a state championship , but you could play for , uh , esp and national championship .
Speaker 2So what you'd have to do is , instead of playing for a state championship , you'd have to opt out and you have to play just those games , right , and you just you do it by region . You know , like one and two , or one and four are on the east coast , two and three are on the west coast . They just play those two games , or it could be one and two . You just keep reaching because you know , obviously because of travel and the restrictions of that and then you play another game after that . I think that would be the first piece kind of going through . That would be the easiest way to kind of do it .
Speaker 1Are there talks around that , or is this just something yet ?
Speaker 2People have always kind of talked about it . I think it's getting more and more real and I think the reason being is some of the the teams that have predominantly been in the top four have dominated their state to the point where I don't think anybody in the state's gonna be like oh man yeah , we're sorry to see that , sorry yeah sorry , sorry to see you guys go go and go play for that and I think you'd have a .
Speaker 2You know , let's say the number three team said no , I want to play for my state championship . Well then you just pick the number five , I think , out of the top 10 , you could figure four teams that would probably opt out and do that , you know , and have to work some stuff magic around that . But I think that would be more of a realistic way to do something first and see the interest and then you know kind of that . Like I said , we'd love to play more out of state games as much as possible and just challenge yourself and just kind of represent the state as as much as possible , like through that .
Speaker 1Yeah , now what about like the Trinity league ?
Speaker 2I mean , there's talks about that with bishop gorman I know , you know , I would you always hear that I put like this nobody from the trinity league has ever reached out and said hey , would you guys like to join ?
Speaker 2okay so until that , until somebody actually reaches out and says , hey , we want you to join , then you know , maybe that's a real thing . But I think I understand why there's a . I understand why that would be a cool thing . I understand you know how that could kind of help out a little bit . It's just there's a lot of weeds that travel JV freshmen how does that work ? How much travel are they going to be able to ? You know , like there's there's so many different pieces within that . But yeah , I've never had anybody at least to me and say , hey , come join the trend league .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , um , so do you have your schedule already set for next year ?
Speaker 2Yeah , no , yeah , we're , we're , we're pretty much done , waiting on a couple of contracts just to be finalized , but yeah , we're , we're pretty much done . I don't think we've put it out just yet , but it's , it's pretty close , okay cool . Yeah , it's not like last year , where you know yeah , um .
Speaker 1So I mean , there's a saying that you know it's harder to maintain success than it is to achieve it . So you're on top of the mountain right now . Um , I mean , what do you do to stay up on top of that ? Uh , that peak .
Speaker 2I think , um , it's going to go back to you kind of talk about our offense , right . I think it's going to go back to you kind of talked about our offense , right ? We didn't so much emphasize , hey , you know which was some crazy stats . You got to score every fifth play , or you don't ever punt . It was more . Just play good football . What is it you're supposed to do at this time ? Right , like , if you're supposed to go out of bounds , go out of bounds . If you're supposed to hold your block , if you're supposed to do at this time , right , like , if you're supposed to go out of bounds , go out of bounds . If you're supposed to hold your block , if you're supposed to hold the edge , hold the edge . Like all the , all the little pieces that that make up a good football . Play like . That's what we're looking for you to do , every single down , every single time , with the discipline to do it . Every single time you get a chance to like we talked about that . I mean in that big uh meeting with you saw like we'll , we'll have a . I don't know , I remember who I stole this from .
Speaker 2It's like good , bad and the ugly as you go through a game . The kids don't often seize their side , defense seize their side special team seize a little bit of both , but really they haven't watched the game . Even when you come in Saturday , what do you do ? You break up and you go see offensive guys go through . You fix all the mistakes . Defense , fix all the mistakes . You come back , eat , lift , run , run , do all that stuff and then you're done so . On monday we come back in and I'll broken down from offense , defense , special teams , good plays , bad plays , ugly plays , funny plays , things like that through the game . So it it shows both sides . Obviously , during the game too , coaches are doing their job , like our kids are on the tv getting coached up . There's no , you're not watching the game , right , you're watching what you do so you can be ready for the next time . And I I like that , that aspect of it , because it does teach them good football .
Speaker 2We'll go through , like you know , and it shows everybody in . You know we do a lot of soul searching , are in front of everybody . There's no , you know the film doesn't lie , tape doesn't lie . You know what you did is what you did . Don't lie to yourself , right . The only way you can get better is you don't lie to yourself . You keep lying to yourself . You'll never get better . So we do that in front of everybody and it shows like , hey , you're the best player in the country and you're supposed to go out of bounds right now and you're dancing around doing whatever . Or you know , this is you know , this is you know , this is why we didn't make this is the block that cost us this piece , or hey this is you are the star receiver , but you didn't hold the edge , like you're supposed to , on this play .
Speaker 2Yeah , all those things that come in , or hey , this is an amazing thing , and we do a lot for the guys that don't get in as much , right To like , hey , look at , look what you know , just because it's a play every time , look what he's able to do . So , um , that's how you , in my opinion , how we talk about everything . Um , we don't make it about more than what it is . If you , it's a byproduct , if you're doing the right thing on each play , every single play , you're gonna be successful yeah , yeah , yeah , I I think your , uh , your mind's mindset , your philosophy , everything is just it's spot on .
Speaker 1Like I said , I've I've never heard anyone kind of bring in that character development piece and and had such an emphasis on that , um , and then you know , like I talked a little bit earlier about the whole bill paul's just the scoreboard will take care of itself . If you do the small things , I mean that's , you would think you would walk into this program and you guys would be talking national championships and that would be . That's the focus and that's what we're going for and it's anything but it's . You know , yeah , it's different , I know it's , it's awesome explain it right , because a lot of guys .
Speaker 2I mean , I've had guys that have coached against us at different places and you know within the first week , like man , this is not what I thought it was . Yeah , because you just don't know . I mean it . We , we have a saying it's not the building's great , there's this great right room , there's this great field , this is great . All this stuff , all this stuff doesn't matter , it's the bodies in the building . If you don't have great bodies in the building , great people in the building , all this stuff is it's not going to get you what you want it's not going to just make you like it's just having it here , it's not going to work .
Speaker 2You got to have the guys that are dedicated , that are going to work , and you had to have good character guys that are able to do the two things work hard and be this one .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , it all starts from the top . Um , I commend you . You're doing a phenomenal job here and I appreciate the time you've taken to sit down with me and to sit down with us on the podcast , and you know , good luck on the next season .
Speaker 2I appreciate you . Thank you so much . Um been great . Thank you so much for having me .
Speaker 1Yep , All right guys . See you on the next episode . Thanks .