Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Coach Quincy Lewis: Game Beyond the Game with High School Coaching Icon
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This week we sit down with Coach Quincy Lewis to reveal the coaching philosophy that made him Utah’s winningest basketball coach. Step into our conversation and experience the power of situational practices, the mental gymnastics of a comeback, and the sweet victory of sharing a state championship with his son, Cooper. Quincy's ability to instill resilience in his players is a testament to his masterful approach to coaching, turning high-pressure moments into lessons of triumph.
Embark on the awe-inspiring journey of Lone Peak High School as they chased a national championship. Quincy and I dissect the strategic moves and sacrifices required to transform a group of teenagers into a basketball powerhouse. From strategically scheduling tough out-of-state games to harnessing the collective spirit in pursuit of an audacious dream, these stories encapsulate the very essence of teamwork and leadership. Meanwhile, uncover the contrasts between high school coaching and the college game, including the unique Coach Lewis' experiences at BYU, where players return from missions with a new set of priorities that redefine their approach to the sport.
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You know, one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid.
Speaker 2Welcome to Above the Whistle with your host, devin McCann. Alright, we're rolling. Welcome to another edition of Above the Whistle. This week we have a special guest on. We have head coach of Lehigh basketball, quincy Lewis. Nine-time yep, that's right. Nine-time state champion, and I think you just overtook the lead, right. You're the winningest basketball head coach here in Utah.
Speaker 1Yeah, we had a great year. Craig Drury out of Provo, been there for a number of years, had eight state championships and he was a heck of a coach.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But now there's Quincy Lewis on top of that record book. Let's take a step back. Let's look back at this past year. I know, you know this was a special year. You won a state championship with your boy, with Cooper. How special was that.
Speaker 1Yeah, just, I mean just a tremendous experience, because I mean you know really, I mean, hey, he grows up with you for one thing, but then you know the other part of it is, you know, basketball is something you love, it's something you've done for a long time and you see how hard he's worked for you know a long time and then to be able to win, it is just kind of a storybook.
Speaker 2Absolutely. Did you guys have intentions I mean when he was four or five years old like I want to coach you when it comes to basketball, when it comes to high school?
Speaker 1You know, you kind of thought it might happen. You know he was with me at Lone Peak. You know just a little guy and you, you know just kind of a funny thing. I mean he'd always be at the practices shooting on the side hoops or around the guys. You know five years old, seven years old, you know whatever. And you know in his mind all that. You know what happened after the season is, uh, you, you know you get done with your last game and then you go into the locker room after and throw water on each other, you know. So he maybe had a little bit of an unrealistic uh expectation, but he was kind of built to do some big things.
Speaker 2Absolutely yeah. To see that, to be around that culture, to see the Gatorade or the water thrown on the players afterwards, that's awesome. So, yeah, let's take a step back and just kind of go through this season, especially when you were in the playoffs, you know semifinals just to get to the championship game. I know that was a. You guys were down a little bit, weren't you? Yeah?
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean we were down seven with a minute 12, and you know I don't care what your team is. You know if you win that game you've got to consider yourself a little bit fortunate. But you know, having won some championships, you know I lost one too. You know, having won some championships, you know I lost one too. But what you find out is you have to, most years you have to catch a little break to win it. And you know, the year that we didn't win it, we were up halfway through the fourth quarter and just couldn't hold it. But usually you have to catch a few breaks to win the thing.
Speaker 2Okay, I mean basketball, I think more than any sport, I mean maybe tennis, but it just seems like it's such a swing in momentum. How do you work with your players and keep them focused on? If they are going through a little bit of a drought, it's okay, we're going to just keep shooting, keep playing defense, we'll make a run. How do you instill that in your kids, especially high school kids, where they are so emotional and it is easy to get frustrated?
Speaker 1Yeah, that's a great comment because momentum is a real thing. In this age of analytics, there's no analytic for momentum. No, and it is very real out there. You saw it in our semifinal game in just a minute 12, what the momentum did for us and did to maybe the Harriman team that was just a heck of a team, but what the best thing that you can do is prepare for it and you know. You know we once or twice a week we'd work on special situations and sometimes we work on being up four points with 37 seconds left or being down with a minute 35, you know eight points and so you know. One thing I told our team is we were down and we're in a timeout. I said, hey, guys, we've been through this before, we've done this. Okay, just keep your cool and let's focus on what we've got to do. And they still have to make some mistakes, but if you're prepared, you give yourself maybe a chance to win it Right, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's crucial. I think the situational practices I don't think a lot of coaches do that and I think it is. We've been through this before. You guys, just keep your cool, it's going to be okay. We've done this. I think the teams that haven't gone through those practices and you know those situations and kind of drilled that, that's when the pressure just it mounts and you know that's when you see people kind of choke or you know, even at the free throw line, you know the kids that have just spent hours and hours practicing tend to have a little bit better result than those that haven't.
Speaker 1Yeah, it doesn't always mean things are going to go your way, but just you know, if you've been through that in your mind and maybe physically gone through it, then you know you have a shot at it. And so we pulled out a hard one, right?
Speaker 2there, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1And you know, went on to the next game and played a very good game in the championship and even you know the start of that game.
Speaker 2I mean, Corner Canyon came out and you know they took a pretty decent lead. Same sort of thing. Right, you had to go ahead and regroup and stabilize the team.
Speaker 1No, and we, you know we were down 11-2. So it was starting to get to a point where we might have needed to call a timeout. But I'm not a guy who likes to call timeouts and we didn't call one and we just kind of let our guys play through it. But we've done that all year. Okay, let our guys kind of fight through some difficult situations where you feel like you need to call a timeout but you don't want to do it. You don't want to do it for a lot of different reasons.
Speaker 2Take us through that because you watch games and it's really easy for the armchair quarterback or whatever to oh, they should have called a timeout there. Why did they not call a timeout? What is the mindset? Why wouldn't you want to call a timeout and bring your guys to the sideline and drop a play?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's 11-2, and we've got off to slow starts before, and obviously this is a state championship, so the thing that you're concerned about is a little bit of momentum. So you're maybe one basket away, but we were defending well in the game and so I just felt like we just needed to make one basket. If we made one basket, I thought we were going to be okay, which happened the very next possession. But really, from a timeout standpoint, every coach has their own philosophy.
Speaker 1For me, I want to hold on to those timeouts for situations like the Harriman game, I have four timeouts going into the last minute and a half and I could really manage what was going to happen in that last minute and a half. And I also, you know, you know guys who are really important to have those guys on the floor and sometimes just use a timeout just for them. Yeah, so, like cooper, I mean I would call timeouts just for him, just let him sit there for a couple minutes because you don't want to take that guy out, yeah, and so maybe a timeout is a is a better way of a substitution okay.
Speaker 2Um, what about you know, the last minute, last two minutes, same situation, momentum's getting away from you. Do you call a timeout in that instance, or do you allow your team to kind of work through that?
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, so that that is a point where you might need to use one. You know, use one right there. So, yeah, timeouts are an interesting. Everybody has their own thought on how they but I, they but I like to hold on to them.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, when it's crunch time and the game's on the line, it's nice to have one in your pocket as opposed to not. So I mean, you've won nine state championships and you've done it at two different schools now. So Lone Peak, I mean you had great success at Lone Peak. You guys won a national championship game. How have you been able to win and build a program at Lone Peak? And now same thing here at a different school, at Lehigh?
Speaker 1You know I was really fortunate in growing up a coach's son and you know the best program in the state for years and years was Provo High with Jim Spencer and then eventually it turned into Craig Drury.
Speaker 1But my dad was an assistant for Jim Spencer and so he learned a lot from him and then developed a really good program at Timphew which I came through and I just learned a lot of those things there and then so that gave me a base of understanding of what needed to happen things there, and then so that gave me a base of understanding of what needed to happen.
Speaker 1But really I think, whether you're a coach or whatever business you're in, I think it's important that you reevaluate yourself and you're very honest with yourself. And so I learned this maybe after our third year at Lone Peak, where we didn't have a great year. We had won it my second year but then the third year we struggled a little bit and I got to the end of it and I kind of looked at it and said there's nobody else to blame but me, and it was the truth. And so from that point forward I got to a point when the season ends I reevaluate every single thing that we do in the program, from the players that we keep, to how we teach drills, to what we did in our banquet, to every little aspect of the program, and we try to just make everything better from year to year, to year to year, and I think that's how you grow your program.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I heard this the other day and I really really like this Failure is feedback, and I like looking at it that way. I mean, we're all going to have failures in life. We're all going to have failures in life. We're all going to have, you know, some sort of shortcoming. But as opposed to looking at it as you know, this catastrophic event and you know we failed and we're you know just we didn't do our best or whatever it might be but to look at it as actual feedback and how can I take this and grow from it and improve, so, yeah, I think it's a really good way to just look at failure differently and kind of shift the paradigm on that.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's how you get better. But the key is you have to actually do it Absolutely. And that's the hard part, you know, that's the hard part of actually looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, gosh, dang. You know there's some things that you can't control, that you go through that. Okay, I couldn't have controlled that, but there's what you find is there's, if you really look at it, there's many things that you could have maybe done a little bit differently. That could have made it better. Yeah, and so I'd write those things down. You know, write those things down and have a specific, you know, not a solution, but how I wanted to move forward with it to make it better.
Speaker 2Okay, so your third year you said was kind of a down year at Lone Peak? Yeah, Is it the very next year you guys go on?
Speaker 1Yeah, the very next year we won it, and then we won it the very next year after that, and then the next year we played for a state championship and lost. So we were in it three straight years after that, yeah, and so we kind of figured some things out and, um, kept moving it the right direction for sure, Absolutely, Um to the point where you actually won a national championship with max preps right, yeah, and that was, uh, that was a pretty cool deal.
Speaker 1You know we were out of state a bunch playing the very best teams in the country and uh, you know it was that was our goal that year. Yeah, we kind of got to that point and but that was a fun year.
Speaker 2Yeah, take us through that year. I mean, what was so special about that team? You know, was there just a couple special players on that team, or was it just the team chemistry? I mean, what was the difference?
Speaker 1Well, you, know it starts with. It starts with players. You know any, any great team it starts with having really good players, and we had basically six Division I players on that team, six Division I players. So we had really good players and the cool thing was they're basically all homegrown kids and so they've known each other since third grade and they were unselfish too.
Speaker 1And we had a kid, eric Mika, who lived in our boundary since fifth grade and then he had left and went to Waterford for his freshman and sophomore year. But then he came back. His junior year sat out, but his senior year he played with us and he was a heck of an addition. Yeah, absolutely, he was 6'9" and we'd lost him. He was supposed to be with us the whole way through.
Journey to the National Championship
Speaker 1But Nick Emery, who was a dang good player. I went to Nick before the season and he was basically the best player in the state and averaged over 20 points a game as a sophomore and freshman. I said Nick, you're not going to score as much this year. I need you to be maybe in the 17 to 18 range. And here's a kid that could go out and get 30, 80, 90,. Wanted to really yeah, yeah night. He wanted to really yeah, and I said, but if you do this, we're gonna have a chance to maybe do something really special this year. You know, and and it's super hard to win a state championship, but to win the national championship, I mean there's, I mean there's so many things that went into that. Uh, but that was the first step was getting him to buy in, say, okay, eric needs touches, okay, and you can't shoot it as much. And and so he averaged 17 a game that year, did he really?
Speaker 2He did. Did he you know at first? I mean because you, I mean he's a 17 year old, 16 year old kid. Was there resistance to that?
Speaker 1or did he buy in immediately or no, he bought in immediately and we had a great culture at Lone Peak where we kind of said, hey, listen, you come here and you buy into our team how we do things as a team, then everything individually will work out for you. From a college standpoint, from an awards standpoint, he ended up being Mr Basketball that year and averaging four less points than he had the year before. And that kid, he was a winner. He was a competitor. If you were not on his team you did not like him very much, but if he was on your team you liked him a lot.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's one of those type right when he can get under someone's skin. Yeah, definitely, so you guys go on and won the national championship game. Who did you guys play? And?
Speaker 1let's go through that a little bit. Who did you guys play? And let's go through that a little bit. So with max preps. You know it's a compilation, so there isn't that actual national championship game.
Speaker 1Right right right, but what you do is you get into. You know the best term in the country is called the Palms and we were in that and we were in three other out-of-state tournaments where we're playing ranked teams. A team we played out of Philadelphia hadn't lost in three years. They had like a 60-something game winning streak, oh wow. And we played them in a I guess it would have been a quarterfinal game in one of these tournaments and we beat them. So we had a lot of steps along the way that we had to kind of conquer and we were a top-ten team going into that year with Max Preps, usa Today, all these people. But then we put ourselves out there. I mean, when they came at the end they do strength of schedule and I think as USA Today we were like number two and MaxPreps we were number three.
Speaker 2Strength of schedule in the country. So is that the administration? Is that you who does the logistics on scheduling, when you know you have a good team, a special team, and you really want to put yourself out in the national spotlight? How does that work?
Speaker 1I called the person from Max Preps and said I knew what kind of team we'd have because we traveled with these teams in AAU and we'd been ranked the year before. I said what do we have to do to win a national championship? What kind of schedule? He said this is what you're going to have to do, and it was pretty much. I mean, we played a few in-state games in Utah, yeah, but all the preseason was pretty much out of state, and so we really were able.
Speaker 1You know, we had some people with some foresight and vision with Alpine School District, to be honest with you, that allowed us to do this. Now, all the tournaments were paid for by these tournaments. It wasn't like it was coming out of our pocket, but they had some vision. This is something special, this is something unique. So they allowed us to be able to do it, which was a big deal. That was a big deal. And then we got in the best tournaments there were and said, hey, basically you've got to go win all your games there, and then you really can't have any games under 20 in the state. I mean, that's essentially what it is. So some of the most pressure-packed games were the games in the state, where you have to win by a certain margin.
Speaker 1Yeah, you're winning by 12, and everybody in the stands is going oh, this is easy. Wouldn't it be great to be Lone Peak? Well, no, stands going oh, this is easy. Wouldn't be great to be lone peak? Well, no, you're.
Speaker 2You're you got to win by 20 to get to the goal that you it's like the old bcs, like I mean, you had to win with style and you had to win with so many points and things like that to stay ranked high.
Speaker 1Yeah yeah, so it. But we I mean we played on espn that year against aaron gordon, who's now in the playoffs, and we that was like the second ranked team in california we, california we were up 40 at one time in the game and so we played very well at the right time.
Speaker 2Now did you guys? I mean, you talked about this, that was the goal. That was the goal. Yeah, how much did you stress that to the team?
Speaker 1Yeah. So we came in at. Our goal was always to win the state championship, but with this team, we basically had everybody back from a team that had won two in a row already, right, and so you're coming into that next year and you're saying, okay, what can we do to top this? What's?
Speaker 2next.
Speaker 1What's next? And so in August I came back and said our goal is to win the national championship. Now I didn't know if we could do it and you have to have a lot of things that kind of fall your way. You have to have teams that are out of the state, that lose. I mean things just have to work out for you. But I knew that, hey, if we're reaching for the stars right there, we'll be motivated to get to that point. But that also could help us win state championships too, Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2Shoot for the stars reach the moon.
Speaker 1Yeah, hey if you want to get lazy against the Utah school and have a tough game or you're not motivated to do that, then you're not going to win the national championship. But the truth was, is we just like anything? You have to keep getting better, better, better, and so at the end of the day, it was going to win the state championship for us and maybe a national championship.
Speaker 2How much did the players buy in and kind of police, that standard among themselves?
Speaker 1Yeah, oh yeah. They wanted it and they knew this was different than anything anybody had ever done. This was unique in boys basketball in the state. Nobody ever considered a team from Utah having a chance to do something like this and um and so that you know, we had guys who are highly motivated guys, you know, self-driven, and then you put the carrot in front of them like that and they, they went after it have you?
Speaker 2I mean, I'm assuming you stay in touch with a lot of these guys. A lot of them went on to play college and you know, now have families and things like that. Went on to play college and you know, now have families and things like that. Do you see a correlation with you know, with their drive at that stage of life and in basketball and how that kind of transitions over into family life and career and things like that?
Speaker 1Yeah, the guys that you know you have, like, a TJ Haas, you have a Connor Toulson and you have Mika and you have Emory. I mean you've got guys who have now you look at where they're at in their life and they've been really successful people. Now, because you win the National Tournament doesn't mean that you're going to be a successful person, but what it does is it does give you a foundation to really build from.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely that framework and what you build and work to succeed and things like that. It gives you a lot of the, just the characteristics you need to be successful. I think Now you mentioned AAU. What is your take on AAU? Does that I mean as a head coach, do you want your kids playing AAU? Do you want them, you know, just focusing on, hey, the high school basketball? I mean, are there goods?
Speaker 1and you know positives negatives to A basketball. Well, for many of the years at lone peak we, our kids, didn't play okay because, uh, we had just such a high level of player and we were sponsored by under armor and nike and things like that, that we could go kind of do our own thing and be in those tournaments. But au serves a really good purpose for many kids in the state and allows them to get um be looked at by colleges, and so it. It can be a really positive thing, um, you know, for for many kids, um, but it serves its purpose. And high school, you know, has its own purpose. There is some overlap between the two Um, but but it's. But it is different.
AAU and College Basketball Coaching Dynamics
Speaker 2Okay, okay. So with AAU basketball, do you think the coaching you know, and just seven-on-seven football is one of those things where you have a lot of head coaches with football, that kind of look at it and you know there are some negative effects to it. You know they're a little bit more flashy and showy in their game. You know the footwork when you're playing quarterback you know might not be as crisp, things like that. Does AAU have some of the same things where you know they're playing a little bit more freelance and you know it's a little bit more selfish ball? And look at me, is there?
Speaker 1that kind of mentality. It can be for sure, depending on what club you're with. You know it can have those elements, and you know me being maybe a little bit more of an old school guy. I would hope for fewer games and a lot more individual work in the offseason.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1But, like I said, you know, au, it's a necessary vehicle for kids and the betterment for kids in getting places. Okay, so there's a piece of that that is necessary.
Speaker 2Okay, so after Lone Peak you went to BYU as an assistant, right, let's kind of go through that experience, and I mean coaching high school kids and then going up to the next level. I mean, what was the difference, you know, coaching a college-aged athlete as opposed to someone in high school.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean you're obviously you're dealing with more mature kids. You know that you know, skill-wise, are a little bit further advanced, and you're dealing with some different mentalities. All the kids have been stars wherever they've been, but I found that the leadership principles, though high school or college, those are the same. Those things don't change. Okay, but you have kids who are interested in being really good there. There are some that have got to a point where they kind of realize what their plot in life is in college and it becomes a little bit more of a job and I'm getting you know this is paying for school and things like that and that's kind of where they've got to. But then you have others that you know they want to take it to another level.
Speaker 2Yeah, is it hard to you know you? You have an athlete I mean BYU especially, you know, if it's an athlete that went on a mission, came back. They are a little bit older, a little bit more mature, possibly, you know, married at this point. Is it hard to keep them focused if they have some of these things outside of the game of basketball?
Speaker 1Yeah, especially at BYU. I mean that's a challenge that those coaches can run into, because you know, now they're getting married or they do have kids and maybe basketball isn't quite as important to them, you know, but they are a more mature kid, which is an advantage. But there's other kids who are married or have kids, or you know that they still have that same drive, that edge, and you know what Actually the mission helps them be even better. You know, and I think of a kid like Kyle Collinsworth, who I coached, and Kyle, I mean that guy did everything that he knew how to make himself better, from taking care of, you know, like his fitness and his body, to being a better player, and you know he wound up being in the NBA a little bit. So every kid comes off that mission a little bit different, okay, a little bit different, but for the most part, from a basketball standpoint, it's a really positive thing.
Speaker 2Okay. Okay, so you mentioned kind of star players. Basketball is one of those games where you have five people out on the court, but if you have that one or two just kind of star players, it can elevate a team. How do you work with the guys that might not be that star player, that might be more of the hey, your importance is on defense or rebounding, or you're doing some of those other things that don't show up in the stat sheet quite as much? How do you get the buy-in from everybody and get that team chemistry?
Speaker 1Yeah, not always easy, right, Right, I've had a lot of those guys, fortunately for me, because I've joined a few games, from Jackson Emery to Tyler Hawes, to all these guys and most recently Cooper Lewis, and so here you have a guy like this. Last year he's averaging 27 a game, yeah, and so it's not equal opportunity. You want that guy shooting the ball most of the time, absolutely the ball in his hands, but you know the value of like what a Bryson Brownlee or a Gabe Cowan and some of these people that we had around him, what they were doing, from their defense to their leadership to their rebounding, I mean it's just. I mean you're not going anywhere without those guys and they have to feel valued and understand that, even though their name won't be in the paper, you know, like other guys, but their value is high.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I know you mentioned this to me off camera, but you know, with this last group that just won the state championship with your son, a lot of the team chemistry with that group was actually done on the golf course, right, yeah, kind of yeah, kind of explain that.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know it's not a requirement that these guys are best friends off the court, but I'll tell you what it makes for a tight-knit group, a brotherhood, you know, if you can have that. And it was kind of an interesting thing. It was completely organic and Cooper had tore his meniscus in the end of June and he couldn't do anything except for he didn't want to sit on his hand. So he'd go out and he'd go golfing and pretty soon he would get a couple of guys to go with him. And the next thing, you know, we have seven, eight guys on a regular basis, two or three times a week. Wow, going golfing through the whole summer and in the you know, in the fall. And they're all competitive.
Speaker 1You know, yeah, oh yeah, I'm sure put a buck on each hole you know, or something like that you know, and uh, and it wound up being a great thing for our team because they were so tight-knit. So you, you know you talk about being down 11-2 to start the game against Corner Canyon. This is such a tight-knit group that they trust each other and they're tough that I think when you have that behind the scenes it's not going to bother you as much. Yeah.
Speaker 2Do you think you know, with sports there's a lot of just kind of unspoken chemistry? You know, with sports there's a lot of just kind of unspoken chemistry. You know, just a nod, a certain look, things like that. I mean, that stuff just doesn't happen right. It comes from this team chemistry and hours spent together and things like that.
Speaker 1Yeah, and we did a lot. You know we went to Seattle, we went to Phoenix twice. You know we did a lot together in addition to all the games, practices and everything that we did, but not only just that time, but it's a trust, you know, and you know, and really, bryson Bromley, he and Cooper have been best friends since third grade. You know, because they were together with each other at Lone Peak and you know you watch one of the plays that happened in the Corner Canyon game and there's a steal and Bromley winds up with the ball and Cooper's down on the wing. It's kind of transition and he's being denied, which he is most every game. You know, and you just see that there's eye contact there and he goes back door and that's something that has developed over a long period of time.
Speaker 2They know what each other's doing. So could you quantify? I mean, do you think that gives you kind of a? You know a certain like five, six points a game, just because of that chemistry?
Speaker 1No, I really do. I think with this last team and I haven't had teams as close as this team.
Speaker 2Really Even the national championship team.
Speaker 1That team really got along well, but this team was really really tight.
Speaker 2So I mean, this is cliche right. I mean this is a typical ESPN-type question or whatnot, but National Championship Lone Peak team versus the 2024 Lehigh team.
Speaker 1Who wins? Well, it's pretty hard to say anybody's beaten that National Championship team. They were so, so talented and they and they played very well together. Yeah, you know, but this last team that I had was just a just an ornery tough, mean you know team with a little bit of swagger and then I'm sure if I ask cooper that question, I'm getting an answer on that and then you have one guy like him, you know, and the Easton Hawkins was a heck of you know, and Grayson, those guys are really good players, yeah, but you know the overall talent level of that national championship team.
Speaker 1I mean, it'd be hard for I mean that's a pretty good team.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. So in recruiting with basketball you have a star. You know someone like Cooper, but I, but I mean when he started he was on the younger or on the the smaller side. Yeah, um, you know, probably not getting nearly as many looks as you know someone that's taller, yeah, how I mean. And you, you coached at the college level, you coached at byu. How does someone that is slowly developing, you know, or developing a little bit later, but you see their performance trajectory going up, how hard is that for a college recruiter to kind of be able to notice that and say, hey, this kid's a little bit smaller but he's growing still. But I mean, he has talent.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's not easy and in this era of people trying to get offered by the end of their freshman year and sophomore year, I mean you've got to be really careful with all those things, because there's so many things that are going to happen with kids from their freshman to their senior year in high school, and so you know, when you go out recruiting I mean you could be watching 17U, but you also could be watching 14U and some younger kids and the thing that I always try to do when I went out there was say, okay, I really the things I'm most interested in is skill and toughness. I'm not going to worry about what the kid's body looks like right now as much, or you know how big they are. Those are the two big things. So if you know how big they are, those are the two big things. So if you know the body and all that's the easy part.
Speaker 1The kid's going to grow up, you know, and the kid can get on the weights and get stronger. I mean those things are easy, but the skill and toughness, those are two big things. And even in high school, those are two big things I really look for, you know, in our kids coming through, because you know, if they're not committed to being a great player, then I mean you know that's tough and then it's hard to improve a kid's toughness. You can a little bit, but not a lot.
Speaker 2I was going to ask. So I mean skill and toughness, how do you coach those? Then I mean what are the two things that you're so we do.
Speaker 1You know, at Lone Peak and here at Lehigh we've done a lot of individual work. That is a primary focus of what we've done in our program. That is a big deal trying to help kids be better and motivate them to be better, but when they leave our gym it's still up to them. So as a coach you have to be not only a really good teacher as far as individual things, but then you have to be a motivator and getting them to want to be really good, because you can't hold their hand through all of that. And then you know with toughness, that's something that you know happens day in and day out and it's an accountability as to what they're doing. And that happens little by little and I do think kids can get tougher.
Speaker 2Can do you.
Speaker 1I think they can get tougher, but they can't go from being not tough to the toughest Right right I don't believe. I don't think that can happen.
Speaker 2Yeah, you can raise the bar slightly, but yeah, you can't take someone down low and turn them into a bulldog. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, so you mentioned skill work and working individually with them, do you? I mean, is that just? Let's get back to the basics? This is what you know. It's the, the small things that that lead to great success.
Speaker 1Is that kind of the philosophy you guys use here? I mean, I think if somebody came and watched our practices at at Lehigh, they'd probably be bored to death because we because we we do the same things day in and day out. We do 10 to 15 minutes of individual work with guys. We do a lot of drill work. We're trying to pay attention to detail when we do our summer camp in the summer, our individual camp, I mean we do games and some things like that, you know, and fun and hand out some trophies, but really all that it is about is teaching our individual workout and teaching each thing in that individual workout and how to do it. So the kid has it in their hands what they need to do if they want to be really good.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, so you mentioned, you know and we talked about this a little bit off the podcast but the BYU opening for the head coach position. I saw online multiple petitions saying, hey, coach Lewis should be the next head coach. They ended up going a different direction with that, but you had mentioned, you know you've had great success at the high school level and you would be open to going back to the college level. Yeah, what propels you to want to go to the next level and, you know, be a head coach at the college level?
Speaker 1Well, that's kind of the last thing you know. For me a little bit is, you know, maybe a head coach at a college level, and you know it has to be the right deal. I've been in this thing for quite a while, yeah, and you know. So it has to be just the right situation. And you know, I would have loved to have had the opportunity at BYU. But you know, good luck to the new coach.
Speaker 2Absolutely and.
Speaker 1I really like. You know Brian and Tom there who are running athletics and those guys do a great job, but at some point, you know, that would be a great challenge I'd like to take on.
Speaker 2Yeah, would you be willing to move out of state and go somewhere else?
Speaker 1Yeah. I think at this point you, this point, I'd be more open to that Now that my son he's kind of done with his playing now we're a little bit more open, those kind of things.
Speaker 2And now we talked a little bit as well. Cooper is going to I mean, he's filling out right now different scholarship opportunities or places to go play basketball. Yeah, different scholarship opportunities or you know places to go play basketball? Yeah, Would you kind of, would you ever try to be an assistant on whatever team he might go to help them and then, you know, try to get into a head coaching position?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think you keep. I think you keep all things open with college. Okay, knowing what your ultimate goal is yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Somewhere down the line. You know, and you know he's probably sitting there. You know he hears. This is like. You know. I'm done with you, dad.
Speaker 2I did my time. I heard enough of those dinner table conversations.
Speaker 1you know so I'm you know no, but whatever he chooses to do is great yeah.
Speaker 2That's awesome, um, cause your dad, dad, he, he coached you as well, right? Yeah, so you mentioned, I mean, you have nine state championships as a player, yeah, but you want a couple couple with him. Yeah, with him yeah, so so you can relate like hey dad, I'm done no, there's, there's.
Speaker 1Uh, there were more than one occasion where we get home and mom knew there was not one word spoken at the dinner dinner table, because things didn't go right in practice or whatever.
Speaker 2Do you kind of take the experiences you had as you know, you're the player, your dad's the head coach Did you kind of take some of those same feelings you had as a player and keep those in light when you were coaching your son? Yeah, I tried to Because, truthfully, coaches' kids they have a little additional pressure on them and, you know, keep those in light when you were coaching your son.
Speaker 1Yeah, I tried to. Yeah, because, truthfully, coaches' kids, they have a little additional pressure on them. Yeah, you know, and I don't know if generally people understand that you know, because they look at it and say, well, that coach's kid maybe has an advantage. Yeah, maybe they do. They quite possibly do have a little bit of an advantage because they kind of know what's going on there in the program and you know, obviously they can communicate with their dad or their mom, you know. But one thing I can tell you for sure is there is an additional piece that those kids have to deal with that nobody else has to deal with. Yeah, that makes it tougher.
Speaker 2So, as a coach and a parent, how do you kind of go back and forth, you know? I mean you leave the gym, you go home, you just had a loss. I mean it's hard to you know, kind of take that coaching hat off, especially when your son's in the same house, under the same roof.
Speaker 1How do you transition that, yeah, outside of the court, uh, I kind of let him be more of the guy that would bring up basketball, okay, um, then then me, you know, occasionally I might bring something up, but I let it be him more than me. Um, and then on the court, you know there's, you know there's. Only you know so many times that you can actually really really get after them. You know, because the relationship's a little bit different.
Speaker 1Yeah, actually really really get after them. Yeah, you know, because the relationship's a little bit different. Yeah, it's just what it is, you know. And so maybe you go to your assistants and say, hey, make sure Coop does this, make sure he does that, you know. And so you do have to treat it a little bit differently because it is different.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely as far as assistants. You know, building a program I mean you're the head guy, but I mean it's. You know there's a lot of other pieces involved and assistant coaches are a huge part. What is it you look for when you're trying to hire and bring you know people in to help you build that program and to coach the team?
Speaker 1Yeah, they're super important to what happens in your program and they don't get any notoriety but're incredibly important. And I've had basically the same guys for my 16 years in high school. Oh, wow, you know, I've had one. One guy's been with me all 16. Another one was 12 and so I I haven't had a lot of change in my assistance over the years, uh, which has been a big deal. But the first job I ever got was at byu, hawaii, working for a guy named ken wagner who had been really successful coach at Dixie and then at BYU-Hawaii. And I went in the first day and he said he goes, what do you think the most important thing is? And I said, well, I started diving into. Well, I think I can help you offensively and I can do something individually, teaching guys. And I went through five or six things. He goes, you know what. All those things are really important, but they're not even close to what the most important thing is.
Speaker 1And I sat there dumbfounded, you know, first year, yeah, I flunked and he said loyalty, loyalty to what we're trying to do and everything that comes after that is way down the line and that I have found is 1000% true is you got to get guys with you who are loyal to what you're trying to do and you can help teach them what they need to know from a basketball standpoint. But the loyalty part you've got to have good people around you because they'll make you better. That's what I've been, fortunate. The only thing I think, through the career I've had that I'll pat myself on the back for is I've got the best people around me and they've helped me.
Speaker 2Yeah, oh, absolutely, um, but I think that's also a credit to you and just the type of person you are, you know, um, loyalty comes from just having faith in somebody, and, and, and what they believe, and, and I, I think you, you know, obviously embody that and people, uh, naturally want to follow you and and and you know help you do what you.
Speaker 2So when you have these assistant coaches, do any of them have aspirations to go on to be head coaches somewhere else and, if so, do you help them with that career path and help them move on? I mean, you've had guys 16, 14, 12 years with you. You're obviously now the AD at Lehigh. You're stepping away, retiring from coaching. Is one of your assistants going to take over that role?
Speaker 1Yeah, we'll see here really soon, but I have had assistants that have been interested in coaching, and then I've had former players, like, for instance, nate Austin, who's now at BYU. He was an assistant coach, he was one of my guys, so you kind of start getting your own coaching tree a little bit.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1But I'm really excited for any of my guys that are able to get a job and do anything to help those guys, how often do you stay in touch with former players? Yeah, you know, like Nick Emery, for instance, he texted me the other day he said hey, what's up, what's going on? You know, and he's got a business now that he's just doing fantastic with. Yeah, they're doing really well with that.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know about it, I know about that business. Shout out to Wally Cases, wally.
Speaker 1Cases. Yes, and Jackson, his brother, who I coached, is also involved with that. But I talked to those guys you know on a regular basis. Okay, I actually saw Nick up at his house in Idaho and went fishing with him, and so those you know all, all the relationships I have with former players and coaches, I mean those. I mean, at the end of the day, that's.
Speaker 2that's the that's what it's pretty fun.
Speaker 1That's fun, but the relationships are most meaningful.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I think you know, just yeah, that love, that camaraderie, the brotherhood that you build in the trenches of you know, a tight close basketball games I mean, but those things just they endure over time and to be able to, you know, look back 20 years from now and, and you know, just kind of relive those memories and stuff, I mean that's really that's what it's all about, that's fun. Did you, as a coach, when you know some of these kids went on to go, you know, play college or or NBA? Did they ever reach out to you and, you know, ask for advice? Or or did they ever reach out to you and ask for advice? Or did you ever send a text and be like, hey, I just noticed this, oh sure.
Speaker 1You know, I never want to get in the way of a coach that they're playing for. And oh, that coach should be doing this or that. I never got into that.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1But I've always just tried to say, hey, just be encouraging with different things. Or send them a text and say, hey, you know, just be encouraging with different things. Or say, send them a text and say, hey, great game. Or hey, things are looking good. And I can remember, you know, one of my first guys, jackson Emery. He had went to BYU and he wasn't playing the first half of his freshman year.
Speaker 2I mean come on you know right.
Speaker 1But Jackson, you know, had high expectations for himself, which is one of the reasons why he did so well. And I said, just hang in there. I mean, at the end of the day, the college coaches are paid to win games and they're going to play the guys who are going to get them there, and I go, you just keep doing your thing, Keep playing hard and doing your thing. And he did and he wound up being on one of the best teams that's ever come through there. You know, a starter on that team, yeah, and being a heck of a player. So, yeah, I've been able to talk to guys through the years and that's kind of the that is kind of a fun thing Because you see a lot of these guys. You know, like Tyler Haas, when I first got to Lone Peak he was a seventh grader.
Speaker 2So I've watched him come way and then to see him become the all-time leading scorer at BYU, I mean that's pretty fun, that's pretty cool to watch him. And so, yeah, I mean the landscape of college basketball has changed, as all college sports has changed, especially with the NIL and transfer portal. How do you think that's affected the game of basketball? I mean there's always been the one and done, you know, with college basketball, I mean you have a team like Kentucky and they have all these high, high, you know, five-star recruits come in play one year and then it's a stepping stone to the NBA. Yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 2Do you think the transfer portal, you know, has affected some of these kids where, if they don't start immediately, they want to jump ship and go somewhere else and they don't stick it out Because it just seems like right now that seems to be the path we're headed down, Because it just seems like right now that seems to be the path we're headed down. Yeah, when you know a lot of that is where you build resilience, you build character, you know you hunker down and work on the basics and the skill sets to be able to be a starter.
Speaker 1You know what. Everybody's a junior in college other than your cream of the crop schools. You know now, and I mean I remember when I was at Utah Valley as an assistant there and when it was a JUCO and we're turning over 11, 12 players a year and your biggest challenge, and the thing that the portal to me hurts the very most, are the schools that are built on culture.
Speaker 2Okay, so like a.
Speaker 1Duke, yeah, like a Duke. And I think it's no coincidence when you look at Coach K's career. When he started having to do the one and dones a lot more. His teams never did quite as well as they had done in the past, and it wasn't that he didn't know any better. You know, or even like Calipari at Kentucky, you know these are culture guys and now they you're pulling out one of their really strong suits that they have as a coach, and so I think that was really difficult. So I think that for the schools that are out there right now, you've really got to fight to create your culture and really fight to have four-year guys that can, because there's going to be more turnover now than ever, for sure, but you've got to keep those culture guys. You know, because culture I mean you can talk all the X's and O's you want, but having a strong culture wins the championships.
Speaker 2Yeah, so how would you go ahead? You know you get hired as a head coach for a college basketball team. Yeah, how do you? I mean, what would be your mindset going into that to build that culture, to recruit the right key players, to build that foundation?
Speaker 1You have to get guys who are wired the right way and you have to get guys who are interested in becoming better players and then sell them on individual improvement and them knowing that, hey, maybe as a freshman you may not play right out of the gates, but that doesn't mean you're not going to be a great player here. Yeah, you know, and you know I look at, for instance, like a St Mary's. Yeah, and you know one of the things those guys do is they develop their players and you know you look at what they've done with kids who didn't play as much their first or second year, like a Marshalonis recently. If you look at his numbers and you look at it over four years and now he's the player of the year, the WCC what you see is individual development and buy-in to what the culture is there, and so you really got to fight for that as a coach. There is going to be some transfers. You know that's going to happen, but you really got to fight to have that culture.
Speaker 2Now what about NIL deals? How do you think that affects? I mean team chemistry is already hard and then all of a sudden you have that star player rolling up in a brand-new car.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's a piece there, for sure. That is a challenge, and I'm all for kids getting paid a little bit because they deserve it. With all the money that's out there right now, it's a business. I think what people don't understand is you know what A lot of that has already was already there in the first place, and now it's just out in front of everybody, and so it's not like this is all brand new, right right, you know these things have been happening, you know, and so yeah, I mean Reggie Bush this week just got his Heisman Trophy back.
Speaker 2I mean yeah. That stuff had been happening for a long time and it was unfortunate that it got taken from him.
Speaker 1He was the best college football player that year hands down. Yeah, I mean I can remember. I played at Wagner College in New York, small Division I, and we play at Syracuse and we're getting on the bus after the game.
Speaker 2Of course you know we got beat At Syracuse and we're getting on the bus after the game.
Speaker 1Of course you know we got beat. You know I'm getting on the bus and I look out there and and it's under the carrier dome and all their players are walking out to new cars Like how's that work?
Speaker 1You know I'm, I've got about, you know, $1,100 in my account. You know how's that work. You know, um, so it's been going on for a long time and so I think, uh, it's just out, it's just out in front of everybody, and then maybe a little bit more with the smaller schools are trying to get involved with it a little bit more, but it's, you know, that's a challenge?
Speaker 2Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, well, I appreciate your time today. Um, this has been great. Uh, yeah, I. You know, whatever career path you go on from here, I mean you've had such great success. You know, hopefully we'll see you at the college level here very, very soon.
Speaker 1But yeah, I appreciate your time and thank you so much. Okay, I appreciate it, yep. See you guys on the next episode. Thank you.