Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Britton Johnson (Former NBA Player): Choosing the hard
Join us as we sit down with Britton Johnson, former NBA player and Murray Spartan legend, for a nostalgic journey through his basketball career. Britton opens up about his formative years at Murray High School, including the influential impact his coach, Gordon Keener, had on his success. He recounts the highs and lows of his journey, from high school championships to the intense and contrasting coaching styles that shaped his collegiate career at the University of Utah.
Britton takes us inside the locker room and beyond, recounting his decision to attend the University of Utah and the challenges he faced during his freshman year. He provides an insider’s perspective on the unexpected ride to the national championship game against Kentucky, highlighting the importance of hard work and determination. You'll hear about the impact of Rick Majerus's tough-love approach and how it complemented Coach Keener’s nurturing guidance, ultimately molding Britton into the standout player he became.
But the conversation doesn't stop at basketball. Britton shares invaluable life lessons learned along the way, from embracing difficult tasks through an "easy-hard" list to the benefits of cold therapy. He reflects on how these principles have helped him not just in sports, but in his personal and professional life. Wrapping up, we explore the evolving landscape of college and professional basketball, the impact of NIL deals, and the critical role of coaching philosophies. Tune in for an inspiring and insightful episode that promises to leave you motivated and reflective.
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You know, one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid. Welcome to Above the Whistle with your host, devin McCann. All right, we're live. Welcome to another edition of Above the Whistle. Today we sit down with former NBA player and fellow Murray Spartan legend, britton Johnson. Thanks for jumping on the call today, man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:You got it, Devon. I'm happy to be here, man. Thanks for having me, of course.
Speaker 1:So let's start off. I mean, yeah, let's go back. You were a little bit older than I was, you know, in school, but we both went to Murray High and you had a lot of success at Murray High School. I mean, I started off the podcast by saying you were a legend. That's no, you know nothing light there. You really were kind of a guy that walked on campus and everyone looked up to Kind of take us back to high school and you know what was that experience like and you know just the recruitment of all these different colleges and things like that and you know, just the recruitment of all these different colleges and things like that.
Speaker 2:You know, if I could kind of wrap up most of my high school, I would say it was definitely surrounded. Or wrap up the you know, wrap up all of my memories into one bundle. It would definitely be the majority of it being basketball Right. I mean, those are your memories. I mean I was 6'10 by my senior year. I was 6'8 my junior year, I think 6'7, 6'6 my sophomore year. And so conversations were always centered maybe not wrapped around, that's a better word centered around basketball right. And so I loved the school, maria, I loved the teachers there. I had five siblings ahead of me that went to school there, um, and then my grandpa, johnson uh, went to school at murray high school.
Speaker 2:probably was a different building at the time, but he won a state championship for murray back in the in in uh, like 1940s, oh really okay and little side note, murray didn't win the state championship again until my brothers and I did, so our two trophies are sitting in that trophy case together.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go. There's a little fun fact. But you know what I played for what I would consider the perfect coach for my brother Jeff and I a guy that was sort of ahead of his time and Gordon Keener and didn't really care what people thought. And why I say that is because he'd sometimes let me play point guard at 6'10". You know, he'd let me bring the ball up the floor Even if parents were like, oh, he shouldn't do that, put him under the basket. He was the type of coach was like, no, he's the best dribbler, so he's, he's the best dribbler, so he's bringing the ball to the floor. He just was. He was a cool guy man.
Speaker 1:And well, I mean no nonsense. You look at basketball now, right, and I mean it is. It's a lot of positionless type of basketball, but you'll joke look at yokich. He brings the ball to the floor for denver at seven foot, so yeah yeah, I just think keener was ahead of his time at that time, for sure that wasn't happening yeah, so it was.
Speaker 2:It was fun. I I think about my experience at high school and in, and I I'm grateful for it. I know a lot of kids, a lot of grown men, grown women say they hated high school. Um, I would, I would be an idiot to say that and and I was fortunate, you know, to be in high school and have an athletic body and have older siblings. That paved the way for me.
Speaker 2:Teachers knew who I was because of my older siblings. They knew I played basketball. My older brother, joey, played basketball there, then Jeff, a year ahead of me, and so you know what I mean. I see all the different things that that kids go through in junior, high and high school and there's there can be a lot of reasons to hate going to school, but I loved it. It was fun and and and I and I can say that I'm grateful and I I probably should be have some gratitude that you know I was an athlete and um, we won a lot of games and there there was people that were excited to see you, excited to talk to you, excited to be around you, um, I know that not everybody gets that experience, so my murray high days were, were definitely fun so how?
Speaker 1:I mean? You mentioned coach keener. Coach keener was a pretty laid back, I mean, um, just a fun personality, a really great guy. How does going from a coach like coach keener to coach mageris what's the transition there? What's the differences? You know pros and cons of both? I mean there are definitely two different coaching styles there.
Speaker 2:Well, let me let me make sure I'm clear. Keener was easy to talk to, laid back of a guy off the court, but when we got into practice and into games he created a culture of you better like, be tough if you want to be on this team. And that prepared me a ton for Majerus. No coach on the planet can compare you for Majerus as far as the the craziness. But keener, no keener, yeah, kreener created a tough man atmosphere and and uh, not to a point where it was crazy, but like he rolled the ball out on the floor a couple times I remember and said whoever wants to go home, go jump on that ball.
Speaker 2:And and he you know dudes that wanted to go home for practice, go home for practice. They'd go jump and dive on the ball. He would run us and he wouldn't let me or jeff or anybody act like they were above the team. I mean, I remember one time he blew up at me at east high school in the locker room and said I don't give a crap if you're a burger King All-American, stop taking stupid shots. And he was okay and confident to discipline if you were the best player or the worst player, and he was fair.
Speaker 1:I always thought he was fair.
Speaker 2:But my favorite thing about Keener, kind of going back, is I felt like he was ahead of his time in that he let Jeff and I play to our strengths. When I was 6'10", a lot of old school coaches could have said, okay, Britton, get under the basket and play like Bill Walton. Keener was like no, you get the ball, you bring the ball up the floor. My senior year, especially my sophomore year, he tried to play me as the point guard for varsity, as a backup to our starting point guard, corey Carlson, and I thought it was so cool because he knew that I could dribble the ball and I was good at it. So anyway, but off the court, you know, awesome dude just laid back and yeah, and you could talk to him about anything. Where, with Majerus, it was awkward to talk about anything other than just basketball, off of a basketball court, off of a basketball court, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So you go, you know from high school you're heavily recruited.
Speaker 2:What made you decide to go to the university of Utah? You know I went to Utah cause my brother Jeff did, and and they were in our backyard and my grandpa on my mom's side, grandpa, my grandpa Entz. He was a Crimson donor, fundraiser, Crimson fundraiser and had a lot going on up at the? U for football tickets, basketball tickets, gymnastic tickets. A lot of my uncles and aunts went to University of Utah. I have a huge cousin group on both sides of my family that all went to utah. The only one that really at the time went to byu was my grandpa johnson, who played basketball byu and he was a big influence in my life. But we were just, we were diehard youths growing up but we loved byu basketball.
Speaker 2:We loved mart Marty Haas in that era we just loved all basketball. My uncle, my uncle played for Utah state. Um, but uh, I went to Utah because they were the up and coming team. Rick Majerus was coming to all of my high school games. He signed my brother Jeff, who was being recruited by schools all over the country. Um and uh, and then, yeah, I just kind of fell in line. But I'll tell you again. You know I'm having these fun memories of my high school coach. He made it so much fun for me. Anytime I got a letter sent to me to the school. He made such a big deal about it and was so excited for my success, my brother Jeff's success, and you know he just was fun. You know he just was fun, you know, and wanted us to know, like, how unique it was to get these letters from these, these schools. And so I had Keener come to my uh coaching recruiting visits. So whenever coaches came to our house he came and joined as well oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess my experience with coach Keener was in football and you know I saw more of that laid back. Fun atmosphere that he would create. I heard that A lot of people said that he would get after you, but he wasn't the head coach. So I said I think he'd let Coach Meyer and those guys kind of do more of the discipline.
Speaker 1:But it's fun to hear you know what kind of team he ran on the basketball court. But I mean he definitely had an impact on a lot of people's lives and so it's cool to hear your stories and go to your recruiting parties and look at all the letters with you and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, not necessarily the parties, but when the coaches would come to our house and do visits, he would come. But he was a good coach man. We watched film on other teams. Uh, we had preparation, we had good plays. I just the night and day difference with majerus is majerus from mckinnon. Majerus wasn't necessarily. I mean he prepared me to win. We went to two state championships, almost a third, but majerus was just psychotic. He was. You know, the way he coached you is to demean you and put you down and and and destroy you as a human being so that you'd be so mad you would play as hard as you could, whereas my experience at Murray was Majerus I mean Keener loved to, you know, pump us full of confidence. He was hard on us, but hard on us in the right way, and so it was. It was a lot different man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so I mean you get to the University of Utah and correct me if I'm wrong, but that first year I mean you guys go to the national championship against Kentucky, correct? Yes, yeah, I mean, what was that experience? Like you know, coming from high school joining Rick Majerus' team and then eventually playing in the national championship that first year.
Speaker 2:It was interesting because I think I was naive to how hard it is to win in sports, because in high school, you know, I got to play with my brother Jeff, who was a two-time Mr Basketball. Um, uh, then I, I got to play with Corey Carlson, one of the toughest, hard-nosed point guards I've ever played with, and we had two tough guys, preston Price and Joey Stewart. That we, we, we were a cool, great mix of a team. And then me being six, eight, six, nine, and we won a lot of games. I mean their, their age group, my brother Jeff's age group, from their freshman year to senior year, only lost one home game. So then I do, I go through that, winning a lot of games at Murray, then to Utah, my freshman year. We go to the national championship and I'm just like, oh, it's just normal, the win, you just win. That's for whatever reason. I wasn't saying it was because of me, I just didn't know anything different.
Speaker 2:But when I joined, that team we were picked at the beginning of the year, not. I remember going on sports meet Sunday with Rick Majerus and someone said, coach, does this team have potential to make it to a final four? And I remember him saying absolutely not. We're losing Keith Van Horn and Ben Caton. Of course we're not going to go to a Final Four. And I remember just thinking, oh yeah, we're probably just going to be a good team again in the WAC and we lost one of the best players in the country in Keith. Well, little did we know that Andre Miller was about to come out of his absolute cave or shell, whatever you want to call it and be one of the greatest point guards to ever play in college basketball and in the NBA, with a 19-year NBA stint, and be an amazing player. And that was, to this day, probably the best team I've ever played for that Final Four team.
Speaker 2:To get back to your question, it was fun, man. It was hard playing for Majerus. I didn't even get to touch the floor in the beginning. That's kind of what my TED Talk was about is utilizing that strategy of making hard choices that were deemed as hard for me at the time to give myself opportunity to get on the court, in the practice court and then in the games, sort of just followed a strategy of identifying things that were hard, like getting to practice early being being hard, lifting weights being hard, staying after practice being hard, all those things and then eventually I kind of found my way into the lineup and was playing with confidence and got to be a part of that team and play 20 minutes a game towards the end of the year. But what a wild ride. I mean it was. The NCAA tournament was three weeks of my life. That gets brought up almost every day of my life.
Speaker 1:I mean there's almost.
Speaker 2:There's almost rarely a day that goes by where someone doesn't bring it up to me like hey, you played for Utah National Championship. Oh, you guys lost Kentucky, you know, I mean, there's just always somebody that I'm running into and the fact that yeah, when you hear that, I mean I'm sure it still stings because you guys were up what 12 points going into halftime, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:So I'm sure you know there's there's those memories still and you know it's they're good memories, but then there's still the the agony of defeat there that you have to kind of relive every day if they're constantly.
Speaker 2:You know what overall it's. It's a. It's a. It's a great memory. Um, I'm not a fanatic and I've got a good fun balance. I feel like in life and perspective and I and I've got an incredible wife and kids and, um, you know, I was raised in an amazing family not to say well you always no, no because for like 10 years after the national championship.
Speaker 2:It made me sick to think about it. I think, yeah, I think, that perspective grows and you mature and you, you, you, you. You run into harder things in life that are more difficult than winning, than losing a national championship, like having your best friend die of cancer, which which, uh, happened to me four years ago. So, yeah, there's, there's things that you know you can put it into perspective like, okay, it wasn't that bad. But I'll say this I love my memory of my freshman year, but when it's actually the national championship night, monday night every year, it makes me sick. I'm not gonna lie like everyone watches the game, everyone wants to watch it watch it ollie, I'll watch it.
Speaker 2:But I'm just the whole time just sitting there with kind of like flashbacks and memories of oh what if I would have done this different when I was on the court. I remember turning the ball over. I remember taking a stupid shot. I remember letting my guy get hot. Was it my fault? We lost that 12 point lead. And you sort of like, yeah, there's that one night of the year why I I know everybody's so excited to watch- the national championship game and I'm kind of like ugh yeah, makes me sick.
Speaker 2:But then I can pretty quickly laugh it off and just enjoy the game. I mean, life's too short to like let something eat, eat away you. I mean I didn't. I didn't miss the, the game-winning free throw, or you know. Do something stupid where it was like a memory of me losing the game, but yeah I was part of the team and and we lost.
Speaker 1:How many people play in a national championship game?
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:Devin too, even though that you've lost the fact that you were there. I mean, I mean, 99% of the population can't say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you know you're, you're nice to say that and you know what was really cool the city of Salt Lake and the state of Utah treated us after that game almost like we won the national championship. I mean, I didn't, I didn't pay for a mill for like a year after that game. I mean, and you got to remember that was when the jazz went to the finals too. So Utah was a basketball state and it was fun to be a part of that. You know when you're six foot 10,.
Speaker 2:you walk around. We were walking around like rock stars and the state of Utah and the city of Salt Lake treated us like we won that game Cause they did a parade for us. When we came home, I mean we all dressed up and went down and had a a private meeting with the, with the first presidency of the LDS Church, you know they congratulated us. We met with the governor. They gave, like our team, a key to the city. They treated us like we won the national championship, which was really sweet and kind of all the fans. And fans remember that forever. I mean does it hurt.
Speaker 1:You guys lost. I mean, as a fan, I still remember that. I remember that team going to the Final Four and the National Championship and just falling just short. But I mean that's a memory that will be etched in my mind forever, absolutely, I mean listen, I have nothing but fun memories.
Speaker 2:Majerus was tough to play for but like like I take him times two to get that experience again.
Speaker 1:And so.
Speaker 2:I've got teammates from that team. We barbecue almost every summer, like either Mike Doliak's house or somewhere, and get together and just reminisce, and the coaching staff was hilariously fun, the players were fun, and so it was. It was a memory that'll be etched into my, my brain and my, my heart for the rest of my life, right? So what was tough was what was tough was going on a two-year mission, coming back and thinking, oh yeah, I'll get back to the national championship. And you know, we didn't. We didn't get anywhere close, and so I mean that was a unique team. That team had five guys playing the NBA Three that really had significant careers, and Mike Doliak, hanno Metala, andre Miller I kind of touched the NBA waters, you know, dipped my toe in them, so did Alex Jensen, and so it was fun, man, cool team.
Speaker 1:And you know Andre Miller and I think a lot of people forget. You know, obviously he had a great career. It was fun man Cool team and Andre Miller I think a lot of people forget. Obviously he had a great career and he kind of had his coming-out party in Utah that run to the championship. But then he played, like you said, 19 years. He was kind of the Mike Conley before Mike Conley before Mike Conley. I mean, he was just a, you know, just a steadfast, great point guard, you know just a natural leader and someone you'd want on your team and he played for for I mean 20 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the best point guard I've ever, probably the best teammate I've ever had as far as like, understanding the game, knowing the game. If you ran the floor and you were open, he was going to hit you. He didn't need.
Speaker 1:Do you know if he coaches at all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he coaches, I think, in the D League. I know University of Utah is doing everything they can to get him, but I don't think he really wants to go there and be an assistant. Yeah, but he's a pass-first point guard and he's an intelligent passer. He doesn't need to be dribbling the ball all the time. If he rebounded it or you threw the ball in bounce jump, he would look down the court and fire it down the court where so many point guards think they always have to be dribbling, like if you play with, like Russell Westbrook, the guy's going to dribble the ball until his nails fall off, right.
Speaker 1:If you play with Kyrie Irving, he's going to dribble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not going to get the ball. Andre just wanted to do the right thing all the time that, and he was a tough defender, one of the best defenders I've ever played against. He has a big body. He's not only strong, he's just super smart. I'm not kidding you. I think Andre and Alex Jensen were the two smartest players I ever played with.
Speaker 1:Really In all my career, yeah, and you got to play with them, yeah, in college on that team.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it was fun. Let's go back just a little bit with respect to your first year in college. You mentioned that, Rick Majerus. It was hard to kind of get playing time, you know, at the beginning and and you're a little bit, you know, just frustrated and disappointed and things like that, and one of the assistant coaches kind of pulled you aside and you mentioned a little bit when you brought up your Ted, your Ted talk, right. That's kind of where that whole mindset came from. I mean, I would like to dive into that a little bit deeper because I think there's so many valuable lessons that can be learned from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so are you still there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 2:You know what it was? Just for the first time in my life in the sport of basketball, I hit a wall. Time in my life in the sport of basketball I hit a wall and and kind of like the first major wall I hit in my life period, and I couldn't figure out how to get through it, how to get more playing time other than just pout and be a little baby. And um, you know what this assistant coach just said Brent, I'm going to help you. And he pulls me aside and he hands me this piece of paper that's um 60, 70 critical facts of human nature. Things like having friends is easy, being a friend is hard. Um, dirty is easy, clean is hard, you know, talking is easy, listening is hard. And and he has me read this in his office and says what do you think? And I'm, I'm like I, I get it, coach, I, I think what you want in life that you're going to enjoy and appreciate, you probably have to get it by, you know, taking a hard path. And he says, exactly now, I want you to flip that piece of paper over and, if you believe in that concept, make an easy, hard list. That's going to give you the opportunity to play on this team, to get minutes, and that's what we did.
Speaker 2:We sort of, you know, I just I just created this list of things that I knew that were hard for me. Like I hated waking up early, you know, and getting my day going, and I was a teenager, right, I loved sleeping in, so I wrote that down. I liked eating fast food. I was lazy with my diet and I needed to gain weight and get stronger. So I wrote down to follow the nutritionalist's diet plan, which was eating tons of protein and I mean pretty much eating everything but a little bit healthier and everything right. Um, and he says, just stick to that list and let's see what happens. So I do it and it's not even I remember like the minute. It happened.
Speaker 2:Just sort of slowly I started to see changes in my game. Because of, because of following this sort of easy, easy, hard strategy, I eliminated things that I was choosing that were easy in my life and I started doing things that were hard. And next thing, I know I'm playing minutes, I'm getting in tough games and by the end of the year I'm playing 20 minutes a game, and so I keep that thing with me, but I take it with me on my mission. And when I'm out doing my church mission and talking to people and knocking on doors, I'm like, wow, it works in this scenario too, cause all I ever want to do is not get yelled out as a church missionary. I don't want to go knock on a door, but I'm seeing opportunities that I'm creating for myself and others by choosing hard.
Speaker 2:Then I stick to the pattern in my pro career. After going through really hard times getting cut from teams, I use it in my life, my marriage, my relationships. I start using it to help other people and I just recognize it's a pretty simple strategy, a simple formula that I think everybody knows about, but sort of putting it in a game plan setting where, hey, I'm going to like wake up today and identify things that are hard and choose to do those. That's what's helped me in my life and that's what's created opportunity for me, and that's why I shared that story on that TED talk and they were like, yeah, let's have you give this and do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it's such a simple concept, but the application of it is is very difficult, right, um, and creating those, those daily habits that just compound as you do them, um, I mean, everyone thinks the, the success, like, you see very successful people out there and you think there's some sort of magic pill or you know, they just got lucky or something. Yeah, but people that are really successful are the ones that just, they're not afraid of the grind. Right, they'll get up and do those hard things and they'll do them daily and they'll they'll create these habits. And you know, just, um, I mean, I don't know if you've ever read the book atomic habits, but you, you create these processes, um, and put them in place where you just do these things daily and slowly. That's when you start to see the difference. Yeah, the difference between average and great. It's really not that big. But people that go above and beyond are the ones that make that jump. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2:I love that. Well, I started to find other things in my life that I'll apply it to, and so recently as of January 1 this year, 2024, january 1 was the first day I was able to do a cold plunge. I hate cold water. I hate it more than anything. I never used to do cold water plunges when I played basketball. I would just ice my knees. But I've got I've got a bad knee and I have a bad back. I have a bulged disc in my back, and so somebody told me that this cold plunge would change change things for me. So I tried it a couple times last year and I hated it. But I said, said okay.
Speaker 2:January one I had my wife come down to me to this, this pool. That was like almost 38 degrees and I said I need you to make me stay in there for five minutes. She's like well, quit being an idiot, just do your easy heart thing, just choose the heart and stay in there. So I go down there and I'm psyching myself out and I finally do it. I stay under the water my shoulders and everything for five minutes and it was awful for the first minute and a half. But if you've heard about this cold plunge phenomenon. After the first minute and a half your body goes numb and from there on out it's nothing but benefits, like you feel amazing in the water and then you get out of the water for the next six to seven hours your body feels amazing, your brain feels amazing and since that day I've probably done it I mean literally.
Speaker 2:I just did it an hour before you and I talked, I jumped in the car. I've probably done it over 50 times and I've never not stayed under for five minutes. And it's always hard every time. But it's the whole perfect, easy hard. It's hard to cold plunge, but the benefits you get, the opportunity to get your body to feel right, your mind to feel right I mean some people like joe rogan and people that he has on his podcast they'll. They'll relate cold plunging to snorting a line of cocaine, which is hilarious because I've never done that right. But it literally gives you this incredible, just crystal mind clear, body clear and amazing feeling. I almost feel like I just took a bunch of ibuprofen when I cold plunged, because my body sort of just feels amazing. So I've applied the easy hard to that and I can't think of a better analogy to use than cold plunging than cold plunges.
Speaker 1:I owned a business several years ago. I sold it I think three years ago now, but it was called Recharge Sports Performance and it was in Draper and we had the cold plunges and this is kind of during the time that cold plunges were starting to become a little bit more of a fad or a talking point. Okay, cryotherapy was really big at that point. Yeah, and I just I looked at all the research and I I just liked the idea of doing, you know, cold therapy. You know we would do contrast, we would have hot and cold and go back and forth. But that the mental aspect of getting in a cold tub there's just, like you said, that easy hard to get in there. It's extremely difficult, it's difficult a lot of people yeah, and to stay in there.
Speaker 1:Um, joe robin will talk about it all the time. You know, um, I don't know if you're cold, plunge that first minute. You say after that first minute, um, you know, you kind of get used to it. Your body becomes a little bit numb. You kind of create this little thermal insulation layer. Yeah, the water's kind of stagnant, but if you have jets in the in the water's moving. That that is five minutes of pure hell at that point, because you can get that. You know the one I just did.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I know exactly what time. The one I just did. I go to this spa down here in st george called earth, and the jets are moving and so, you're right, you don't actually get the thermal layer, so it's, it is brutal. But yeah, I mean I get out and I've been driving, now, you know, for the last hour. My back feels great, my mind feels great, so it's just like I, I'm obsessed with it. My kids laughed their heads out because they're like that's all you talk about, dad. Yeah, I'm like, I know, it's just been a game. I wish I would have done this back when I was playing in utah, because, funny enough, and I was talking to the owner today I would have cold plunged and then went to practice oh yeah where back then in the 90s and the early 2000s people would practice be sore and then they'd cold plunge.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I just love all the scientific studies that have been done now because I can go jog and feel like I'm jogging at a rate and a speed that I can't do if I don't cold plunge.
Speaker 1:Right, don't cold plunge, right, so well they talk about. This was interesting to me is you have, you know, different types of fat cells and there's brown fat. Yeah, actually, when you get in a cold tub, they see, you know, um, that there's actual, you know, fat loss with cold therapy, that that brown fat you actually see it like lighting up on a radiograph and that you know it's you're burning brown fat. Yeah, doing cold therapy, which is a great health benefit, along with you know several others, and then, like I said, just that mental component of it I think is so wonderful. Yeah, um, this morning I just saw this actually it was on Instagram and it was Hugh Jackman and he played Wolverine for the last, I don't know 15 years of his career and he's doing the new one with Ryan Reynolds.
Speaker 1:But when he first started playing Wolverine, he was on set and his wife was there and he jumped in the shower early in the morning at 5 a. He was on set and he was, you know, about to shoot and he jumped in and it didn't have any warm water and he just wanted to scream but he didn't want to wake his wife up, so he just kind of held it in and he thought, like you know that just holding it in and just being on the verge of just, you know, just wanting to jump out of your skin and stuff like that, he's like that's the the mindset that wolverine has all the time. So that's kind of the way he did method acting with wolverine every time he shot a scene he would do a cold plunge first and then actually uh, shoot the scenes well, I could have used cold plunging to deal with Majerus.
Speaker 2:That's the mental that probably would have helped me out a ton. I'm obsessed with it, as you can tell. I have not missed a week of doing it actually not San Diego in January, and I was there for four days and I would go down to the ocean and all these morning surfers are wearing dry suits and that water was freezing cold and I'm walking out there in my, in my bathing suit. It's six in the morning. They're just looking at me like what is this idiot doing? Like I just remember them all staring at me, like this guy's out of his mind. And I just went out there and just, you know, dunked under to my neck and came out bright red but feeling amazing. So I'm a fan man and I do love the easy heart connection there, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. So I mean, let's take that and, you know, kind of go one step further. So you know you're highly recruited in high school you go to the U of U. At what point do you think, hey, I might have a shot of going to the NBA. And what was that transition like, going from, you know, college now to the NBA?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I kind of always thought I was going to play in the NBA, since high school, I mean. When I was selected a McDonald's all American, you know, I, they, they told us all the stats of how likely you are to go to the NBA. And and Majerus always recruited me as though you know, hey, I'll make you like Van Horn, you come here, you'll go to the NBA. But playing for Majerus was so difficult and I felt like my confidence, I couldn't get my confidence right playing with him and so I did doubt it a little bit. But after my junior year I had a good junior year I thought for sure I was going to play. It's just, my senior year was filled with injuries and problems, but I knew that I was fast enough and I could move, jump high enough and I was 6'10, that I would play somewhere. You know, I just didn't know how that would be. And I look back and I don't want to live in regret. I wish my NBA career was longer. I think if my knee was healthier and I would have had a little bit stronger mental fortitude, I probably could have played longer. I mean, all the tools were there right the speed, the body, the quickness. It's just. Yeah, you know, it was just.
Speaker 2:I was kind of a journeyman. I didn't get drafted, so I had to constantly try and make a team and get a contract and sometimes you get put in the right spot where that's easier said than done. But I was in the Orlando Magic where it was a losing team and so the coaching staff, the general manager, constantly looking at the team, evaluating it, hoping that someone's going to make the team better. Well, if I could have been drafted, maybe by the jazz or team that was, they didn't really need me, but I just needed to come in and make a few things happen here and there.
Speaker 2:Maybe it would have been different, but I don't regret any of it. I love the experience I got. And then I got to go to europe for seven years and play over there and it was, um, I was definitely not the guy that had the storybook. Uh, you know professional career. It was just filled with ups and downs, rough moments sprinkled with a few fun moments, but, um, for the most part, my, my pro career was a very difficult one that I wouldn't say was like the storybook career yeah, um, but like I mentioned earlier, I mean you still, you had that professional career, right, like 99.9 percent of people don't have that experience, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean you, you got to the, to the big show, you played in the NBA. You, you, you know, went overseas and played for how many years. Like those experiences, I mean how, how they shaped you into the person you are, the father, the husband. I mean how have those difficult times kind of shaped you into who you are as a man nowadays?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you, my dad gave me the best advice when he could tell I started to get good at basketball and I was getting a lot of you know, popularity was growing and people are notoriety. I mean, everybody was excited about me. My dad used to always say fame is fleeting, so don't let fame absorb you. And it was the best advice he could ever give me because I'll tell you, man, when, when ball stops bouncing, it stops bouncing and things change for you in this life. I don't. I don't regret again any, any of my career. I I regret again any of my career. I just tried to look at each moment as a moment to learn from and so, yeah, definitely the ups and downs and traveling all over the world and meeting different people and playing for different coaches and learning to get along with different teammates, some of them I had nothing in common with, but I'd have to room with them on road trips.
Speaker 2:The NBA is the only place that really you would never have a roommate. But in college, playing overseas, playing in the minor leagues, you always had a roommate. So you had to get to know people that were from different cultures, different backgrounds. I mean, I'd have a roommate that was from Compton, california, that never knew his father and grew up on the streets. Then I'd have a roommate from Serbia who saw bombs dropped on his city. I grew up, I roomed with, you know, teammates from Idaho that had somewhat of a similar upbringing that I did.
Speaker 2:So all the different roommates I had and teammates I had, what an experience I got to have of learning about different cultures, learning about different you know people's upbringings and not thinking that my little naive world of Utah was the right way. But, um, you know that there's different ways that people were born and raised into this world, and so I got to use a lot of just experiences of things I saw that maybe I would take and not take into my family. And I've been married for 22 years. I've got three awesome kids that I think kind of like me as a father. You know I think I'm doing a pretty good job, but it's been great, you know, it was great for me to get that experience. Have any of them played basketball it's been great, you know it was great for me to get that experience.
Speaker 2:My son, who's on a mission right now in Africa with, with, you know, the LDS church, he, um, he played high school basketball and he played on a really good AAU team and he's contemplating trying to walk on on a team when he gets home he might, he might go, you know, try to walk on it like utah tech down in saint george or cedar city or somewhere. But he, uh, he was a six foot eight good athlete. Just, you know, didn't get the quite the looks that I did, you know, when I was playing, but he's, he seems to keep getting better, even right to the day he left his mission. So he's talking about giving it a shot and if he's, if he makes a team, he does, if not, he's okay to move on. You know, he's just about giving it a shot and if he's, if he makes a team, he does, if not, he's okay to move on. You know he's just a great kid that loves basketball and sports. So we'll see.
Speaker 2:Then. I have a daughter that plays volleyball at Crimson Cliffs uh, high school in St George, and then my youngest daughter, my 12 year old, plays tennis. So everybody's having some fun playing sports in the family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. What would you say is the most important thing? I mean, you mentioned that you played on several different teams with. You know different teammates from various backgrounds and different parts of the world. What creates good team chemistry?
Speaker 2:The culture that I saw that created the best winning environment, whether you had a superstar on your team or not was a culture where a coach knew he could coach and treat the superstar just like he could the rookie, and that came from the superstar allowing the coach to do that.
Speaker 2:Let me give you a perfect example the San Antonio Spurs Greg Popovich could yell and scream and coach Tim Duncan just to say and scream at the rookie.
Speaker 2:I guess I should say vice versa he could scream at the rookie the same way he screamed at Tim Duncan in practices, and the fact that he could coach a humble superstar like Tim Duncan the same way he could coach a rookie, that created a level of respect for the whole team and an environment where no one's above the team. And then I saw the opposite where, when you know, I played for the Orlando magic and I watched our coach coach Tracy McGrady, the superstar, a little bit different than he did the rest of the team and I actually love Tracy McGrady, he was one of my favorite teammates but I think even Tracy would look back and probably, you know, say that he would have allowed the coaches to coach him maybe just like the rookies, and see that that would have benefited, because if Tracy's not going to listen to the coach roll his eyes or walk away from when they blast him, then the rookies coming in are going to feel like they can do the same thing. And I'll just tell you that team didn't win a lot of games.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:If we won any games, I'll admit it was because Tracy put us on his back and carried us, but there just wasn't that winning culture there that I saw on other teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like nowadays more coaches that give a pass or allow the superstar to kind of have these just extra benefits, as opposed to coaching everything the same. It seems like it's a different coaching philosophy now and I'm kind of with you I don't think that's the way to do it.
Speaker 2:Bro, coaching is night and day different now. You can't yell at these guys. You can't yell at college players, college players and their NIL deals and their transfer portal. If you hurt the pinky fillings of a player now, you're putting at risk that player's going to go to the transfer portal. I never once in four years talked to my dad about transferring. I'd come home and tell my dad coach majerus just called me a mother, effing piece of you know what again. And my dad would say well, all right, well, let's figure out ways we can learn to ignore him you know, and now it's all about transfer.
Speaker 2:Go get more money, the, the call, and then the nba is worse. Like players, don't get yelled at. If you yell at a player, that the player's gonna pout and and the player's making 50 million dollars a year. The coach is making two million a year. You know it's it's. It's just a different world. You have to be their friend, be their buddy, coddle them and then hopefully your x's and o's can make a difference.
Speaker 1:But no man, there's no coaching like there was back in the in the in the 90s and rick majerich probably wouldn't be able to coach in today's world. Um, just with all the you know the political correctness that that happens nowadays. But I mean, yeah, you come in as a freshman, you're not seeing playing time. How easy would it be to just go ahead and say, okay, I'm going to the transfer portal now. Like I just don't think that's the the mindset we want to create with these young men. Yeah, I don't know what's going to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what's going to change it. I don't know that it'll ever change once this, that's a hard door to close, but you know to close up, and so I think you just kind of have to embrace it and figure out.
Speaker 1:There's 30, there's excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt you there there's 32 high school or 32 states that are allowing high schools to have nil deals now that's insane.
Speaker 2:Have you noticed? Have you met? I did not know that that's insane man. I mean, listen, I don't. It's not that I don't want anybody to make money, but, um, wow, that is absolutely incredible. I mean, and, and maybe it's good, because maybe some of these athletes won't ever have that chance to make that kind of money again. I hope they're smart. I know this much. When you're young and you have money, the first thing you want to to do is show it off and show everybody else that you don't have money. You don't have the mental life skills and learning skills to say, hey, I should save this in case this doesn't last. Everyone that gets money when they're young thinks it's going to last forever.
Speaker 1:You're invincible at that age, you do? You kind of mentioned it earlier too, I mean in your own kind of background. I mean you went from high school to college. I mean you won everything. You never had that kind of just hey, I got punched in the mouth, I have to get back up. We lost. It was just, it came easy for you.
Speaker 1:These kids that have the same thing and they're getting money thrown at them. They've never had to go through a trial or you know. Like I said, take a punch and bounce back from that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to my philosophy easy, hard, and it's not that it's like the kid's fault he's getting money, the money's being provided to him. But I hope that those kids, these high school athletes and the college athletes, are making a hard choice and reaching out to get help, like financial help or a mentor or someone, and not just making their own decisions. That would be what I would do with my son. I'd say, son, you're going to go find a mentor and go to lunch with them, or I'm going to help you find a mentor that's going to teach you what to do with that money, because the first thing I know you want to do is go blow it on shoes and clothes and a new car, and that's the dumbest thing you could do. Right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean going back to the point that these, these are kids. I mean they're, you know, 16, 17, 18 year old kids that don't have life experience and they just want to, like you said, kind of flash their money and go buy some sort of materialistic car, house, whatever it might be, as adults. Where do we need to step in, though, and kind of set parameters and say, hey, you know what, we probably shouldn't have NIL deals for the high school level, or even an 18-year-old college. I mean, granted, they're in college, but I mean some kids are 17 years old when they're in college. Maybe we need to kind of set a little bit of a boundary with what and I nil deals can can actually be, uh, facilitated and and what they look like, and things like that. I'm I'm game for that, but, uh, in high school, when kids could go straight to the nba, right yes, yeah, because kobe b Kobe Bryant went to the NBA the year before me.
Speaker 2:Tracy McGrady went to the NBA my year. We were both the same age. But yeah, I don't remember when they cut that off. I was in high school and they allowed that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean I do wonder if at some point we will need to put in some sort of restriction where you know NIL deals can only happen after a certain age or things like that, to kind of protect some of these young kids from making poor choices. But I mean, like you said, maybe it's just providing them a mentor and, you know, providing the resources where they can learn to make the correct choices with the money they're given.
Speaker 2:sure, because I don't know that you reverse it. I think you just kind of figure out ways to make it so these kids, you know, 10, 15 years down the line aren't a mess. Yeah, because when I was at college I went to school and still learn. You know vocation skills not vocation skills, but like you know life skills because I was being told that you might not make it to the NBA or the ball's going to stop bouncing. One day You're going to have to hang those shoes up. What's next? The weird thing that I've never asked anybody. So these NIL deals, like there's a kid at BYU making 400 grand and averaged like six points a game last year in basketball I don't remember which one it is. I mean, are these kids still required to go and maintain their grades and have good grades to play on this team?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna assume yes, right, but I mean they're still a student in you know, parentheses or quotation marks? Athlete? Yeah, like they still have. Yeah, go to classes and you know, at least try to get a passing grade. So, yeah, they're still student athletes at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good to know. I mean, if they have somebody that's mentoring them and helping them and maybe teaching them how to put that money away, I'm not saying they can't spend some of it right and have some fun. I mean I would have loved that.
Speaker 2:But I just anyone yeah, I just hope that this isn't going to make a mess of these young athletes when they're in their 30s and their money's all spent, and they didn't spend any time learning new skills or learning what they were going to do next. So I'm not jealous of it. I think it's great for them. I just don't want to see it ruin some of their lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's no jealousy from my standpoint. It's just the fear of what direction are we taking this, and is it a good thing? No-transcript. But on the flip side of that, I mean, if you're getting all this money and you're just spending it on cars and jewelry and things like that, you see all the time these stories where Mike Tyson makes $100 million and still files for bankruptcy. Mike Tyson makes $100 million and still files for bankruptcy. So I just don't know if that's the right path to go down to allow these kids to make money in high school and college. Right?
Speaker 2:Well, I just hate, too, the disadvantage this whole NIL thing puts the smaller teams like a Wyoming University or an Idaho State University, where you're like those teams, you love that they get that birth into the NCAA tournament and there could be that Cinderella team. But how do these teams get anybody to come to them Before I might be able to get a really good athlete to come to University of Wyoming or or utah tech or weber state like a damian lillard, because I paint a picture of what it means to be loyal to this school, what it means for you to come here and network and get an education here.
Speaker 2:What does that mean for future? All of that stuff's out the window. Now I? I was told the other day that kyle winningham now has to spend time negotiating with these players. These young high school punks come in and say, hey, I want this much money, san Diego State's going to pay me this much, or Texas is going to pay me that much. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to consider you guys until I get this much money. And it's like this is Codwiningham, a respectable grown man who's seen not just a thing or two, but a million things or two in the game of football and has to negotiate with these 19 18 year olds and listen to their parents, say, no, my son needs this, maybe even us. His parents need this.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, throw up throw up, man, I can't even like handle it yeah, I mean, well, that's where nick saban, nick saban retired and said college football is no longer college football. Yeah, because of that exact same thing. Yeah, and that's like I mentioned earlier. I think that's, I think, the course we are on right now. Something needs to happen, and whether that's there's, you know, because football, really football, and basketball are the ones that really drive all of NCAA sports, and maybe you just kind of create these minor leagues with the top 40 schools and then you get back to actual college athletics for some of these just smaller universities, or some of these Olympic sports like softball and swimming and track and field. There needs to be something that happens, and I think there will be here in the next couple of years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hope you're right. I don't know what's going to happen. It just seems kind of to be a little bit out of control at this point. The transfer portal is just freaking crazy, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:It is. Yeah, yeah, the transfer portal is just freaking crazy. Yeah, right, it is. Yeah, yeah, um, I think we got cut off a little bit, but I was just saying I mean, you walked into the u of u, you didn't play those first. You know handful of weeks how easy would it have been at that point just to say, hey, I'm just going to go into the transfer portal yeah, I, I mean I never thought about it, I never talked to my dad about it or my brothers or anybody.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm sure we mentioned transferring because Majerus was so hard, but it was never any kind of a thought that was put into any kind of an action.
Speaker 1:But then you would have had to sit out then. Now you can transfer and play right away. If you try to transfer when you were playing, there's repercussions. You had to sit out a whole year yep, did you?
Speaker 2:sit out yeah, and that was tough. But now you, not only can transfer, you can go get more money, and it's just it's the wild, wild west man it is.
Speaker 1:It is man. Well cool man. I appreciate all the time. Um, you know, we'll see how this uh podcast. Hopefully I can do some edits with the uh the breakage in in coverage. But, um, I really appreciate you jumping on here, man yeah, you got it if it's.
Speaker 2:If it's not, if it's way too clunky, we'll. We'll figure out a time to get together in person, if we can, or do it over the phone. I don't know. But I apologize, but it was fun to talk with you, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, likewise. All right, man. Okay, well, thank you everyone for joining and we'll see you next time. Peace, thanks, thank you.