Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Coach Kim Nelson: For the Love of the Game
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What does it take to become the National Baseball Coach of the Year? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Coach Kim Nelson, who has been honored with this prestigious title in 2023. Coach Nelson shares his incredible journey from being a standout player at BYU, mentored by the legendary Glenn Tuckett, to representing the USA internationally and transitioning into a highly successful coaching career. He fondly reminisces about his time as a player and deeply appreciates the collective effort of the Timpanogos baseball program, highlighting the invaluable support from parents, assistant coaches, and administrators.
Discover the heart and soul behind building a winning baseball program as Coach Nelson opens up about his career, his transition from professional player with the Twins to high school coach, and the early years marked by impressive achievements. Reflecting on over 700 wins and nine state championships, Coach Nelson emphasizes the crucial role of family support, the qualities he seeks in players and assistants, and the importance of hard work and love for the game. He also shares memorable seasons and the impact of senior leadership on sustaining success within the Timpanogos program.
The episode also takes a deep look into the evolving trends in high school baseball, with a particular focus on pitching strategies. Coach Nelson discusses the implications of changes in state tournaments, pitch counts, and the increasing trend of arm injuries and burnout among young players. As he addresses the challenges posed by travel baseball and the decline in youth participation, Coach Nelson underscores the importance of balancing team success with individual player development. Tune in for valuable insights and thoughtful reflections from one of the most respected figures in high school baseball coaching in the state of Utah.
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You know, one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid.
Speaker 2Welcome to.
Speaker 1Above the Whistle with your host, devin McCann. All right, we're rolling, all right. Welcome. Coach of Timpanogos Baseball and the 2023 National Baseball Coach of the Year. Coach. Thanks for jumping on the podcast today.
Speaker 2Oh, you're welcome, my pleasure.
Speaker 1So let's start there. I mean, when you hear National Baseball Coach of the Year, what comes to mind?
Speaker 2It just seems way out there, honestly. Um, you know, someone else kind of looked at numbers of 20 000 coaches or whatever it was and, um, you know, it's an honor. Certainly nothing that I've ever thought I needed to work towards or anything, just very kind people here at the State Activity Association who recognize, I guess, the years that I've been involved and push my name out there and you know, and that's what it it became. So I'm, I'm thankful but, uh, not anything I ever really had in my thoughts that needed or wanted to happen Nothing you aspired for no.
Speaker 1To happen nothing, nothing you aspired for no. Um. I did read, though, and I love this, um, when someone asked you about being the national coach of the year, you said if I could, I would change the title to program of the year. I love the humility in that. I love, you know, the recognition you have for everyone around you and everything you've built. That it's just not the, you know, individual award, but it's truly something that you've built over all these years, and it's the program, and I love that. You kind of mentioned that.
Speaker 2Well, there's just I know my name's at the top of Timpanogos baseball, but there are so many people who make it run and make it run efficiently had very good administrators who've been a great support. Probably first and foremost would be all the parents who step in and help. There's just no way that myself or assistant coaches could do all the things that are needed to make a program go well. And then certainly assistant coaches I've had a number of them over the years. Vic Valdez, I think we counted up, has been with me maybe close to 30 years now and he I don't think he ever really aspires to be a head coach. He just loves the game and we've been really good friends and he wants to help. And then there's been many others over the years and all of that together kind of makes Timpanogos baseball. So that's where I would really like to kind of push the program rather than just the coach.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, absolutely. Like I said, I respect and appreciate that so much. But I mean your name is kind of the headline out there. I mean people talk to you or talk about you rather as kind of the goat of baseball coaching in Utah, but before that I mean you were a hell of a baseball player yourself. So let's go back and kind of talk about your journey while you were a player, you know, and just kind of some of those experiences you may have had that kind of led you to aspire to be a head coach at some point. But yeah, let's go back to when you were at BYU. You were a two-time All-American, correct, correct. And what was your experience when you played baseball at BYU?
Speaker 2I played under Glenn Tuckett, who had been the baseball coach there for quite a few years before I got there and probably more than anybody else he shaped my ideas of loving the game of baseball, wanting to be a coach.
Speaker 2There were so many things that he did that I still do. I catch myself saying the same things that he said way back when and you know, probably my mentor as a baseball coach happened under Glenn Tuckett and he helped kind of push me forward a little bit. He was on a committee and pushed my name forward to be on a USA All-Star team and you know I thank him for that and that was probably my biggest and best baseball experience was playing with USA on my chest and on my hat chest and on my hat and it gave me a whole different feeling of the importance of country. We played in a tournament in Nicaragua with I don't know there were probably 20 different countries involved and it was before baseball was in the Olympics involved and it was before baseball was in the Olympics and so this was kind of, in a way, I guess you could say the Olympics of baseball and it was such a great experience.
Speaker 1Now remind me, you guys played in the gold medal round of that as well, didn't you?
Speaker 2Yeah, it was really. It was really uh, interesting. We played, uh, we were in a, a group of 10 teams. We played all of them and and won nine, and then they kind of shortened that list and we played those teams and won all of those and then they took the four top teams from that into just a semifinal and final and we ended up playing Korea in the gold medal game, whom we had already beaten twice. But they beat us in that gold medal game 5-4 and so it was interesting. The only game we lost was that one. We had beaten Korea twice.
Speaker 1So they didn't do some sort of best of three or anything like that.
Speaker 2No, it was just one game.
Speaker 1Single elimination.
Speaker 2Single yeah, just four teams. Semifinals I can't remember who we beat in the semifinals and then played Korea for the gold medal and lost that game.
Speaker 1Okay, but I mean, like you said, I mean the experience of going with USA across your chest and representing the United States and playing. I mean yeah, I mean that had to have been such a just an amazing experience.
Speaker 2You know, as a young man, it was, you know, having never really been out of the country really at all, and then to be you, you know, somewhere far away, how humid, was it because?
Speaker 2oh, my goodness, you uh, it was, and it it was. It was interesting because it was back when there was no bottled water that we know of today, and so everybody was really afraid of drinking the water. I think I was one of the few guys and I'm not sure why who didn't get real sick, but the only thing we I mean my only Spanish out of all of it was leche frio. That's all Cold milk, just cold milk, that's all.
Speaker 2Drink and drink and drink, but I mean humid. We would really change into your baseball uniform and be in a full sweat. That's how humid it was oh, I can only imagine.
Speaker 1I can only imagine, um, and I'm sure that I mean how many you.
Speaker 2You played essentially eight, no 16 games uh, yeah, it was some somewhere in there.
Speaker 1We were there a full three and a half weeks um but I mean the amount of baseball over that you know short of time, in that sort of a condition, with the humidity and heat I mean, and, like you said, in conditions that you know you're probably not used to with, without having access to, you know, water and just different things like that, how do it have been you know? How do it have taken a toll on the team?
Speaker 2Well it did. You know, it was a really good group of guys. I had a lot of really good experiences. We had a shortstop who who got hurt and uh, I played shortstop most the whole tournament and I'd hardly ever played shortstop before and I didn't ever play shortstop afterwards, but it was. It was uh interesting, just kind of how it all fell together.
Speaker 1Now. Do you maintain communication or contact with any of the players on that team?
Speaker 2I did for a while, and, you know, exchanged Christmas cards with a couple. There was a couple guys that I got to know really well with a couple. There was a couple of guys that I, you know, I got to know really well and, um, you know, and in fact, uh, one of them I played in the Minnesota twins organization with, uh, you know, two years later and he advanced a little further than I did but still, you know, able to kind of rub shoulders with him in spring training and that was that was fun.
Speaker 1Yeah, so what was your experience? Like you mentioned the Minnesota Twins. So you came back from USA Baseball, did you still have another year or so with BYU and then you yes, it was my.
Speaker 2It was my senior year, it was my senior year and my junior year at BYU was my best statistically and actually was drafted by the Angels. But it was a token way down at the bottom of the list. Token way down at the bottom of the list and by the time the draft happened I had found out that I had been picked to play on this all-star team. And so the California scout who called me, he said well, you know, I don't really know that much about you. I know we picked you, we can send you a contract. It was $500 bonus and $500 a month to play in a rookie league. I think it was in Idaho Falls, and I just kind of went. You know what this opportunity with USA Baseball is, and I was. My scholarship had increased a little bit for the next year. It wasn't even really a very hard decision to make at all, but I did come back to BYU, played senior year, come back to BYU played senior year and then, after that year, signed as a free agent in the Minnesota Twins organization.
Speaker 2Okay, and then you were there. You mentioned two years, correct? Yes, played in their rookie league, which was in the Appalachian League, and I was in the thriving metropolis of Elizabethton, Tennessee, and then the second year went up to an A-level, which was in Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2Okay, and then what made you decide to go ahead? And, you know, come back to Utah and kind of hang it up. You know it's a little shocking when a general manager comes up and basically hands you a pink slip and says your services are no longer needed. Something like that had never happened to me and it was. It was interesting because my, my parents, who had never seen me play professional baseball, uh, they got to Wisconsin like on Monday night and watched a game, and then on Tuesday is when I got released a game, and then on Tuesday is when I got released. So my parents were there, which was good, and we, you know, we were able to kind of travel around the Midwest a little bit and do a little sight scene.
Building a Winning Baseball Program
Speaker 1So that was, that was fun. But yeah, that definitely helps having that support system there. So you come back um, you know from Twins and did you go right into coaching.
Speaker 2I had a few classes to finish. You know, at BYU I was on that five-year bachelor's degree program. I guess I knew I wanted to coach, yeah, and still had to do my student teaching. So that and a few other classes took another year there, and then also my wife and I got married during that period of time. So it was just time to get moving on to the next chapter of life.
Speaker 1Absolutely. I mean I think we're all grateful that you know you did put the page and got into coaching, because I mean correct me if I'm wrong I mean you were up to 700 plus career wins in high school baseball. I think it's nine state championships now. I mean it's an impressive resume.
Speaker 2Well, thank you, and like we said before, it doesn't come without certainly a lot of help, and there's no way to do that without the help, and especially the support, of a wife and family.
Speaker 1Absolutely. You were saying your kids would probably be the ones that will miss this most.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, they've just been followers of American Fork for 15 years, Timpanogos now for 27. You know there aren't many games that go by, that there isn't one, two, three or up to seven kids and wife and spouses who are there, so that's been fun.
Speaker 1So when you I mean you mentioned just the collective you know support and help when building a program. What do you look for in your assistants? What do you look for in? You know some of the qualities when selecting players to play on the team. You know what do you do to nurture that and to develop raw talent.
Speaker 2You know, I think the things that kind of go for any job or participation and that's, you know, someone who doesn't mind hard work, has a love for the game. And if there's a love for the game, I think then the work becomes much easier to do. And you know, certainly, assistants that are, you know, loyal to your program and want to do what they can to help young men.
Speaker 1Baseball is one of those sports where I mean you hit three, you bat 300. That's extremely successful. You know there's a lot of failures within the game of baseball, a lot of times you can go through slumps. How do you work with players, especially, especially, you know, high school kids, that are just full of emotions and hormones, and all that to begin with? How do you, you know, help them to deal with losses and slumps and just some of the other challenges they may encounter during the season?
Speaker 2You know, I don't think there's any magic formula. I think most of that kind of comes from their own upbringing and their own families. And you know, there's been some kids who are, you know, are very good at it, and there's some kids who are not very good at it and there's some kids who are, who are not, and but, like you said, it's the better players are ones who, uh who, who can deal with some disappointment and uh, failures in some respect, but you know, they're able to put it behind them and and then just put their best foot forward and remember that it's not where you've been, it's where you're going.
Speaker 1Now, are you able to identify these players pretty early on and, if so, do you kind of put them in more of a leadership role to help with the culture of the team?
Speaker 2I think that's important. We've tried to do that, some years a little more than others, and probably the. You know you could look back on those state championship years and you could really see a core of senior kids who had learned from older kids when they were younger and knew kind of what was expected and what was needed. And you know and I, if there's a few things that we've talked about that make the program go, but one of them certainly is, and I depend on, is seniors who, uh, who know how to work and every one of those state years you could look at, my best players were also my hardest workers.
Speaker 1That's just something that has a way of perpetuating year to year, from one graduating class to the next one.
Speaker 1I mean, it seems like there's a certain standard that you have within your program and obviously the seniors, those that are hard workers, like you said, that just kind of you know reverberates through the program. You know, just by their examples, I'm sure you know some of those guys are vocal, some leaders aren't, but it seems like there's a standard that is a high standard and everyone knows that, and the seniors work with the underclassmen to to teach those ropes to them, and that's what kind of breeds that success, Would you say. That's true.
Speaker 2Undoubtedly, and I I can still remember no-transcript and you know it was a struggle. But in the year 2000, it was our third year, those seniors just kind of helped to get that started and you know we actually got to a championship game that year, lost in the last day twice, but that was a real beginning in my mind of kind of what needed to be done from year to year. And obviously some years it goes a little better than others, but some of that transfers every year.
Speaker 1Is there a season that you look back on that, you know? I mean nine state championships. I'm sure they're all memorable, but is there one that you kind of look back on, you know, a little bit fonder? You know, maybe the struggle to get there um was more difficult, or you know, so it was just a little bit sweeter. Or I mean, what's one of your favorite memories? Coaching?
Speaker 2yeah, I've been asked that a number of times and it's mostly by a player of one of those years who wants me to say it was their year, I think. But um, I, I, they all have their special memories for one reason or another. But, um, in a way, our very first year at Timpanogos, I look back on and think of how hard it was to kind of get it all started. We only won four games all year. We were like four and 17 and 18 or something like that, like four and 17 and 18 or something like that. But how satisfying that season was, even though there was only four wins, just because of, I think Orem won the state championship that year and in both games they played us. We lost by one run. We ended up.
Speaker 2It was a funny year. They had everybody in the state tournament and obviously with our record we were down towards the bottom and we played Bingham, who was one of the top teams and their center fielder makes a diving catch with, like the bases loaded and if that doesn't happen, we would have advanced in the state tournament but passed a really good team. But all of that it was just. I just look back on with fond memories of just how hard it was. Maybe the expectations were, were not very much, and and I think we exceeded that. Maybe that's what makes it as a fond memory for me. But certainly the state championships, um, you know, seeing the smiles on kids' faces, you know, and all that goes into the state championship, I mean, all of them are really great.
Speaker 1Yeah, what do you think is more difficult? I mean you mentioned the expectation may have been a little bit lower with, you know that, first couple teams. Is it harder to win after you've already won the state championship and the expectations are to go back and win again? Or is it, you know, harder to try to get a program off the ground and expectations are really low and you know confidence of kids might be low?
Speaker 2yeah, I, I think it's harder harder to after you've, after you've won it maybe some of those kids were part of that. Um, I think it's harder to repeat because you've gotta know, fill in some cracks with people that have, you know, not very much experience. But you've also got to temper those kids from thinking, oh, we did it and we're just, things are just going to happen in the right way for it to happen again, because there are so many things into a state championship that have to happen in the in a right sequence, and lucky breaks here and not having to face this picture there, I mean there's just so many things that go into it. That it's. It's so hard, hard, but it's hard to get some of those kids to think of it that way that they would work as hard or harder to get back there because they've already had some of that success yeah, I mean they always say it's it's harder to maintain success than to achieve it.
Speaker 2I would agree.
Speaker 1When it comes to baseball, I mean you just mentioned, you know, not having to face a certain pitcher or things like that how important at that level I mean it's important at all levels, obviously but pitching in the high school level, how important is it to have, you know, one or two just aces on the mound?
Speaker 2So you know, the state tournament has changed in the last four years relative to the state tournament and the format. Relative to the state tournament and the format before that time, if you had two good pitchers, the way the format was, those two pitchers could pitch. You know, in the days that they had you play, you could really go through the tournament with those two pitchers and we did that a few times. Now, you know, I just, for instance, a year ago in the state tournament, were to pitcher numbers five, six and seven and eight and in some cases some of those kids hardly have any varsity innings and yet you're depending on them to help you advance and it's much more difficult.
Speaker 1What are your thoughts with this change in the evolution of the game in regards to pitching? I mean, back in the day it wasn't uncommon for someone to go seven, eight innings, I mean and I'm talking more Major League Baseball at this point, but you know, now I mean you get to the top of the fifth and you're pulling your starter. Do you think that's a good thing for baseball? And you're pulling your starter.
Speaker 2Do you think that's a good thing for baseball? You know, from the pitching end of it, I don't. I hate to see a sixth inning relief pitcher, a seventh inning, an eighth inning and a ninth inning and you know, you got a hot pitcher who you know, who is doing what he can to get people out. I just, I just and maybe that's more of the high school coaching coming out in me, but I it's, it just is, I don't know, it kind of drags the game a little bit when you have so many relief pitchers, the game a little bit when you have so many relief pitchers.
Speaker 2The part of the game that I don't know if you could say disagree with or have a hard time with is just everybody's trying to hit home runs. And it was so refreshing for me to watch the playoffs in the World Series last year and watch the Diamondbacks actually bunt and move runners and you know, just do things, which that's how I grew up and that's almost that's. I do that in a lot of my own coaching and you know we just don't have the guys to hit home runs like they do. But I, I, I hate to see the game evolve to that at the major league level yeah, it is interesting.
Speaker 1I was at wrigley field just on monday. I was in chicago and a buddy of mine were, you know, watching as they were warming up and every player out there on the field is just a unit. They're all 6' plus 220 pounds, just huge guys out there playing baseball. Like you said, it's all launch angle and hitting home runs. It's just a different game than it was just 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker 2It really is. Uh, you know, and even looking at the diamondbacks, you know some of the size of their players. I mean, they are obviously very good athletes, but they're uh smaller and can really run, and I, I just thought that I just I really became a Diamondbacks fan.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely so. Where do you see the future of high school baseball heading? Do you think there's going to be changes or developments, you know, within high school baseball, just like pitch count, even the pitching clock. Do you think that will ever become a thing in high school baseball?
Speaker 2You know, in the high school rule book there is actually a pitch count, I mean pitch clock rule. Nobody advises by it because you know nobody has clocks, but it's there, it has trickled down to college, obviously, and at some point much the same as the shot clock in high school basketball. Eventually it may get into high school baseball too. It might be a little ways off.
Speaker 1Do you think that's a good thing?
Speaker 2Well, I like to keep the game going, I just do. I want the catcher to catch it, get the ball back to him, the pitcher to toe the rubber, get a sign and go, and it just makes a lot better game and for players to play, you know, your defense behind you is a little more on their toes, I guess, and people to watch. You know this is the whole other spectrum of it. But I watched a grandson's game the other day and they played an hour and a half and barely finished two innings. And it wasn't because of the score, it was just because it was so slow and you know the umpires didn't do anything to keep the game moving Between innings. It was just so long. And I'm going oh, this is why kids maybe start going to some of these other sports is just because it. It just is not a fun game when it's so long.
Speaker 1Yeah, have you seen that? Have you seen um an erosion of athletes going into baseball?
Speaker 2Oh, undoubtedly. You know, just for instance, when we first and there's a few reasons for this, I think, but when we first started at Timpanogos, it was not uncommon to have 60, 70 kids try out. In Pinocchia, it was not uncommon to have 60, 70 kids try out, and in the last four or five years we have 35, maybe 40 at the most. Oh, wow. And some of that has to do with other sports. You know they started high school volleyball. This year They've started lacrosse the last in the last two years. So some of them. And then the other reason for some of the erosion really is travel baseball. At a young age A kid wants to play, tries out for a team at nine years old, doesn't maybe make that team and then maybe starts looking for some other options of what they want to do because they think that's their baseball experience and it's coming to an end.
Speaker 1What are your thoughts when it comes to travel teams? Because when I grew up, you know, I grew up in Murray and we had, you know, little League Baseball at Murray and we'd go play the Four Diamonds and that's just what you did. Now, I mean, if you're not on a traveling team, you're not really playing with the best talent and it seems like there's a huge gap between what is just kind of your recreational baseball and then you know, some of these travel teams.
Youth Baseball Overuse and Burnout
Speaker 2You know and there is, and you know there's like there's some good things to it and there's maybe some not such good things to it. There's some good things to it and there's maybe some not such good things to it. Certainly some kids who would have had options at a younger age playing on a team and then they don't make it and then they're done. Or you play on a travel team and you're playing against better teams from other school or from other areas and maybe your experience is made better. So I don't know. The good part is maybe the kids that I see at the high school level who are better players have all come up through the travel and some other kids who maybe are now just growing into their bodies but their skills are not quite there. They just haven't played at the level and some of these other kids and you know, just trying to merge that together sometimes is a little hard. One thing that I've seen from travel baseball is I've seen a lot more arm injuries from kids in high school that I never used to see.
Speaker 1I was going to say is there a concern about overuse injuries?
Speaker 2I mean, you do you see a lot more Tommy John injuries nowadays, so I'd say in the first 20, 25 years that I coached I could maybe think of one or two kids that had arm trouble and in the last 10 years at Timpanogos I can count maybe eight, nine or 10 kids who all had arm surgeries.
Speaker 2Wow, arm surgeries, Wow. And you know making coaches aware of that. But sometimes at a younger age you get overzealous parents who think that their job is to make sure that everybody you know that they win. And sometimes they'll pick up players from other teams to go play in other tournaments. And we want this kid because he's a good pitcher and they'll throw and whatever the pitch count rule is in that tournament. They'll get right up to the level of it and then the kid comes home and he goes and plays on his other team and that coach wants him to pitch on that team and it's just. It's really difficult and parents need to be very, very aware of that. If you have somebody at a young age who has a good arm and loves to play boy, somebody has to be looking out for their protection.
Speaker 1Yeah, what are your thoughts of just burnout? Not only injury, but just burnout? I mean, some of these parents are a little overzealous and potentially push these kids a little too hard with the risk of, you know, just burnout by the time they even get to the high school level with the risk of, you know, just burnout by the time they even get to the high school level.
Speaker 2You know, and I've seen it a couple of times. In fact, one of our really good players from a year ago played, you know, in the spring, played the summer and then we had there was a fall program and he came to me and just said, coach, I have got to take a rest, and I think some of it was. He had his expectations of playing in front of some college coaches and he wasn't getting some of the feedback that he wanted from that and he was just burned out. The rest that he did during those few months were really really for him, but he's the only one that I've ever really coach. I've got to. You know I've got to take a rest. You know, in Utah we're a little bit different in just because of our weather. I mean the weather kind of makes us have a rest a little bit in baseball and but still, you know, with arms, and you know I love to be out there playing sometimes, just to get away and do some other things is a good thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, absolutely as a head coach in high school, do you? You know, when you do have a star player on your team and you have college recruiters coming, or even you know big leagues recruiters coming, what's your role in trying to help those kids?
Speaker 2to help those kids. Well, I can think of one young man a while back. He had put some feelers out and he had some contact from a very small school in Oregon and he signed a letter of intent to play there and um had a little get together with friends and such for his signing and um, and I didn't get an invite to that little thing because he said I, you know, we thought that you, you know, weren't really not that I wouldn't be happy for him, but I really wasn't pushing that for my kids. And that kind of made me open up a little bit and think about, hey, I need to, I need to maybe talk about this.
Speaker 2My role as a high school coach is to do what I can with my high school players.
Speaker 2But I am so happy for anyone who has that opportunity to go on and play, who has that opportunity to go on and play, and I want them to play for the love of the game and to help our team win.
Speaker 2But the things that come from coaches, college coaches, scouts, and that it has to come to me it should become as a result of what you do as a team and I'm and again, I'm very happy for that to happen.
Speaker 2But the more that I try and just hey, you have to play this position because that's what a college coach thinks that you should be playing. Well, you should be playing a position that's going to help us win, and to me, that's how I try and run our program, but I am for sure wanting to help and do all I can to help somebody get beyond high school if that's what they truly want to do. And right now there's some apps that kids can sign up for. I mean, I'm getting some emails and stuff from coaches all over the country of small schools and you know for some of our kids that I that I've never got before and I think that's great. But they get them because of really how, how, how well your team is doing and that's. I just want that to be a little bit more of the focus.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely as it should be. Well, I thank you so much for your time, kim. I'll let you go, but thanks everyone. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Above the Whistle. If you like the program, click the like below and make sure to give us a follow. Thanks, guys.