Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Brad Clifford: Elevation through Adversity
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Brad Clifford, a former tight end from the University of Utah, joins us to share his remarkable journey from a sports-filled upbringing to his collegiate football career in Utah. Despite his talent for rugby, Brad chose to focus on football, a decision influenced by strong personal connections with coaches like Kyle Whittingham, Gary Anderson and Kalani Sitake. Through engaging personal stories, he discusses the complexities of the recruitment process and the pivotal role mentorship played in his athletic development. Brad's insights offer a candid look into the challenges young athletes face when transitioning from high school to college sports.
Discover how Urban Meyer's pursuit of excellence compares to Kyle Whittingham's empathetic coaching style, as seen through Brad's experiences. He shares an unforgettable freshman-year punt return mistake that illustrates Kyle's balance between public critique and private support. This journey from redshirt freshman to senior year, under Kyle's mentorship, highlights the transformative impact of a coaching approach that combines accountability with empathy. Brad's narrative underscores how recognizing and developing talent can redefine an athlete's path.
Beyond the field, Brad's transition to founding Elevation Health is marked by his personal experiences with injury and mental health challenges. He emphasizes the importance of integrating mindset, psychology, and physiology for true health optimization. Brad's story speaks to the need for personalized health approaches that go beyond traditional treatments, considering individual biological and environmental factors. As we explore the intersection of sports, coaching, and wellness, Brad’s journey inspires a holistic view of health and success, emphasizing the importance of comprehensive lifestyle support.
Instagram: @above_the_whistle
Tik Tok: @above.the.whistle
Utah Tight End's Path to Success
Speaker 1You know , one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid . Welcome to Above the Whistle with your host , Devin McCann . We're live All right . Welcome to another edition of Above the Whistle . Today we have Brad Clifford , former tight end of University of Utah and owner of Elevation Health man . I mean , I've known you for a handful of years . We go back to the OR days of medical sales and everything . Thanks for being on the podcast .
Speaker 2I appreciate it , man . This is super exciting .
Speaker 1Yeah , awesome .
Speaker 2This is like one of my favorite type of topics to talk about Sports , sports , that's up your alley , right .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Um , well , I just want you to give us a quick background on you . Know where you're from um . You know where , where you went to high school and how you ended up at the U of U .
Speaker 2Okay , yeah , so I , um , I'm born in California , southern California . We , my parents , moved us to Utah into holiday , um , when I was about , I think , nine years old , nine old , eight or nine years old .
Speaker 2I'm from I always claim I'm from Utah but most of my family's from Southern California so we had a lot of ties there Grew up in holiday , went to Olympus High School , was big into sports I think most of our generation's upbringing we played a bunch of sports , you figure it out . So I played all the sports growing up and then kind of honed into the ones , that one I was decent at and did suck at right , and then , uh , the ones that I liked obviously , yeah , and where your friends are and things like that , right of course .
Speaker 2yeah , you start realizing I think at 14 I was still pitching and I was just like this is so boring , like I hate this sport so much Like why is my dad making me go ?
Speaker 2And I think I talked to him in the car and he was like , yeah , you don't have to play sign if you don't want to , cause I had . There was other sports . So , yeah , started , they started falling off at like 14 . So it was , you know , basketball , um , let's see , before high school , basketball , football , um , and I think , yeah , that was about it for for a little bit . And then I got into high school and ran track , played rugby , um , was was football , and then basketball , um , and then , as you know , high school went on . It was clear that football was kind of my sport . I actually was probably better at rugby , but at the time there weren't really there were partial scholarships and it wasn't really like a full trajectory , like what do you do with this sport , even though I loved it and I probably was a better rugby player , um , but I decided , you know , decided , like football is a thing . The dreams were all with football . You know , I grew up with the , the jerry rice .
Speaker 2Just did it poster you know in that zone , I think ton of , and then the michael jordan picture . So basketball , football , were my thing . And then until probably I think after my sophomore year , I was just like , okay , basketball is going to be my thing in the off season , fair , yeah , um , I tend to foul out a lot in games and I'm probably not going to be the most skilled basketball player , and so it became basically football and rugby and track for just speed .
Speaker 2I started getting looks in my junior year . I had a pretty good season and we had the Nike camps back then .
Speaker 1I don't know if you remember those . No , I do .
Speaker 2So I went out to Stanford's Nike camp and then did another one I can't remember exactly where in California , and started to get conversations going , things like that . The atmosphere is so much different , man . We had Oregon come on a recruiting trip and I had to run a 40 on the track at like 530 in the morning . Now kids would be like talk to my agent .
Speaker 1Right , exactly .
Speaker 2I'm not doing that . Yep , um , but um , yeah , I had had some good conversations um got recruited by all the in-state schools . Utah wasn't really recruited a whole lot back then . Our first kind of breakthrough guys were like loti , nata and , um , I forget his first name , but , uh , his teammate . His last name was bradley the quarterback .
Speaker 1Yeah , for went to nebraska yep , yep , um .
Speaker 2And then we had a couple guys out of northridge so we weren't really on the radar of most places , right . So to get people in was kind of like , um , you know , a risk for the recruiting channels yeah , for the most part . And then in in-state , you know , byu and utah really relied on a lot of walk-ons still for their talent and they would offer the top guys and do that thing . So Bronco wanted me to play defense at BYU . I didn't want to play defense .
Speaker 2I was dead set that I was going to be a wide receiver and the best wide receiver ever . I still had that like ideal um and had a great senior season . Um . What I thought was going to be an offer for a wide receiver at BYU was not okay .
Speaker 2Ended up going to Austin Colley , which was probably the best but uh , at the whole , the whole time from my junior on , kyle Whittingham was recruiting me and I absolutely just loved Kyle , loved our honest conversations , things like that . But I also was recruited really heavily by Gary Anderson , kalani Satake and Aaron Roderick , really hard for SUU . And I mean , gary , I have a funny story with Gary . Gary tried to get me to commit right on my trip and I said you know , coach , I can't like I'm still , I'm talking to Utah .
Speaker 2I still want to go there . And then the night that I got home the same day called me late , like you ready to go and I , like no coach , I'm not ready and aaron , I think kalani sent me texts or whatever about it , and then the next day um gary got announced as the defensive line coach for utah and I'm like dude , dude , come on man and ultimately what Kyle like our conversations were hey , I love you , you're going to have a spot , you're going to be a scholarship player .
Speaker 2The pathway for that is you got to come walk on first year , you'll get one after your mission . And I always trusted him . My conversation was Urban was the coach then .
Speaker 2So Urban wasn't going to give me probably a look , cause he had gotten guys that were already doing really good job . Um , like John Madsen was a was a funnel kid that walked on scholarship . We had a Derek Richards walk on scholarship . Like he had this good thing with the Utah kids that they would just kind of earn their spot if they were good enough , yeah , and then he could just offer whoever he wanted outside the country , which was smart , like I look back on it super smart .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , for sure , cause you had this intense group of kids that wanted to prove themselves .
Speaker 1So I get it now . Yeah , I was kind of at the time , yeah .
Speaker 2Pissed chip on the shoulder Um me the offer for for wider secret . So I walked on , went on , went on a mormon mission . Uh , it came back . Um , it was . We went to the festival . Okay , my first , my first year , went to the festival . So this is 2004 , right , yep ? Um went to the festival developed . I had a really good um developing year . Urban's offense was awesome , yeah , and I instantly molded into an inside kind of tight end into his offense , which was like a big fifth wide receiver , a hybrid .
Speaker 1Hybrid kind of guy .
Speaker 2Yep and I loved it . I did that for the scout team O for our starting defense against guys like Morgan Scali and Eric Weddle and all these guys . They were really good , and I developed into that spot spot , and I really loved it , and so , in my exit um , it had already been announced Urban was moved , like we're moving on and all that thing . Um , what I love , though , is , um , as much as I dislike urban as a person that I fully find publicly saying um , we had you know our personal things or whatever .
Speaker 2Um , I really , really admire about him and I and I learned early his ability to um , organize people , organize mission , organize vision . And then the biggest life lesson that I learned from him really early that has always stuck with me , that I absolutely admire about him wholly as a coach and as an organizer and a driver of excellence is his attention to detailed analysis . And this story I love telling a lot is he had our execution , our plans to win every week . Most of it didn't really change , but some of it changed based off the opponent . But I mean it was statistical things Like if you win the turnover margin with this amount of detail , you have a 95% chance of winning the game . So we were all like holy cow . So it's an impressionable thing when you're a young kid You're like they've done all the math , this is a science and you start learning that well I think it was at that time right .
Speaker 1Analytics are kind of yeah , coming in sports like before .
Speaker 1It was just , it was a gut feeling , like yeah , you just , I like that player , because I just I I have a gut feeling about that guy yeah , and then analytics start coming into it , especially in the baseball um oh yeah , with moneyball and all that , and then it slowly started coming into football more , where they really started diving into the , the numbers and numbers don't lie like it's black and white big time and so I think he may have been , you know , kind of at the precipice of that , as , as that was starting to come into more football even big time and he was a military kid right , so he grew up kind of around , you know regimen analytics , all these things yeah , and so it also you know .
Speaker 2Anyways , the personal life didn't feel like he ever really gave a shit about me okay , um that's a lot of people feel like that and a lot of people don't , because he had his guys and when he had kids he had his guys . Oh my gosh . I know John Madsen loves Urban .
Speaker 1Really Loves , loves Like a family member .
Speaker 2Yeah , which that's life . Yeah , subjectively , that's just life .
Speaker 1Yeah , for sure .
Speaker 2But I am very objective about Urban too , Okay , and so the analytics part was so impressionable on me because you've got to see it play out in real time . Utah wasn't really anybody , and then all of a sudden they were like , oh wait , they're beating Texas A&M . Wait , now I'm on that team and then I've got to see it live kind of happen , More of an observer spot because I was redshirting and I've really got to appreciate that His ability to game plan not only from analytics of like our operational goals to win has to be this .
Speaker 1But also for this opponent .
Speaker 2It's got to be this . Now we can week out . That was incredible , but he was so detailed this is the story I can't remember who we were playing specifically , but I mean everybody's got their assignments Offense defense , position groups everybody's got assignments . I mean everybody's got their assignments Offense defense , position groups Everybody's got assignments . Urban had game plan . The opposing coach's mannerisms Wow . So he's walking the field and he knows the… Doing the mannerisms of the opposing coach . He knows what the coach is going to do on certain segments of the game . Oh , wow . So he would get to a place where kind you know , kind of um , influential momentum , swifts in the game , like you got to make a good head coach call . Yeah , he would do things like he would call fake plays or set up calls based off of that opposing coaches mannerisms and what they were doing .
Speaker 2Cause he had been scouting the coach , that's impressive , yeah , and that was something that I learned from him . I was just like oh my gosh , almost everything matters , you know what I mean ?
Speaker 1Oh , 100% and so .
Speaker 2I do love that . And then when my mission came back and Kyle , I have the utmost respect . He's like my goat . Yeah For you , for me . And a lot of people dislike Kyle and a lot of people love Kyle but he for me is on my mount rushmore so how do we contrast urban meyer to you know , yeah , kyle whittingham ?
Speaker 1I had a podcast just a couple weeks ago with casey satara and you know corner canyon and I kind of likened coach care to kind of an urban meyer in casey satara to kind of a kyleittingham . I mean , how would you contrast those two personality types and just the way they coached ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so one demanded excellence , which is not wrong . Like I'm not going to use bad or good , because this is completely personal . It's why I can still be objective about Urban and I still use so much from him , so obviously he's not a bad guy . I just don't really like him .
Speaker 1On a personal level
Coaching Styles Impact Athletes
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2Yes , but Urban set the stage , had high excellence , proved it and demanded everyone do it . What I didn't really associate with on a personal level is his impersonal nature of it , and so one thing that I learned from kyle that kyle still had high demand and excellence and I'll use myself as an example is my my red shirt freshman year now playing after red shirting , going on a mission , coming back um , I was rotating in an offense and I was playing all special teams , and so special teams is like my thing to shine right , obviously . Now I'm on the field and still the same thing , still the keys to win . I think Kyle learned a lot from Urban in those senses too .
Speaker 1Kyle demanded excellence and then would personally make it his job to check in on that excellence building so would you say you know , and maybe can't boil it down to this , but with urban , it was you know , I demanded it . It was more beer based , yes , where Kyle was more , you know , from a place of love and aspiring , yes , or inspiring , I should say , the team to reach that level of of excellence .
Speaker 2Yes , and and this is why I'm not saying urban's bad because both impact high impact . Right yeah , look at urban's track record . You can't argue it no . So even my personal feelings you can't even argue that . But what I absolutely love about Kyle is that personal expectation and then the personal check-in and monitoring of that excellence . And so for me , with this example here I am on punt return and I am trying to make a name for myself Punt team I'm jumping over walls and sending lights out Kamikaze you're going all out On punt return back to everything matters kind of thing .
Speaker 2Which Kyle maintained is we have a breakaway run I can't remember who it was on this punt return and the there's this defender and I just I catch him in my eye Right and so I make a clean and he's not looking . So I'm making a clean B B line on him on our sideline in this kid I just demolish like he is dead .
Speaker 2I think , and he's just laid out , but it was behind the ball , okay . And obviously yellow flag comes and I I remember being juiced and my teammates are pushed and kyle comes running over and grabs my chest and he's like what are you ? You know explicit words , what ?
Speaker 1are you doing ?
Speaker 2you know kind of thing , and I remember being like , oh my , and he chewed me out , right .
Speaker 1Here . I am Right there on the field . It's a special team's play .
Speaker 2He's chewing me out Right , and then he leaves Right , and I'm like gosh damn it . You know like what did I do ?
Speaker 1Down on yourself , down on myself .
Speaker 2Yep , the rest of the game is going on and I'm back in the back row because I'm not like front line , I'm rotating in all those things , right ? He comes and finds me in a break and and literally like arm around underneath the shoulder pads no one can see it , yeah , and he has a conversation with me . He's like do you know what you ?
Speaker 2did and I'm like 100 , yeah , like stupid , stupid decision coach , and he's like you're . He's like I can't remember exactly the words of it was like you're better than that , I know it . And he just kind of like left and he's like tons of game left , yeah , and I remember being like gosh , I'll go run through a wall for you . Yeah , because he could build it up . And then let's fast forward to Monday to close the story , because it's still funny , we're doing film review and he replayed that play like 100 times just to prove a point and he's like you .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , right , what are you doing ?
Speaker 2Did it again . Yeah , then session ends . We break to go into individual . I can't remember if it was individual or offense first , offense defense first , but in the transition comes again , comes over to me he's like you , you're never gonna do that again . Huh , I'm like no coach , he's like good , because you're a damn good player , like you know , built me up and I'm just like . I again like I will run through a wall for you . Yeah , um , but that was four years of that , right . This is my freshman year .
Speaker 2Really , I'm playing yeah , and contributing and I had four more years of that well .
Speaker 1I think it's so important , especially as a freshman I you're coming in , as you know , high school you're kind of you know big fish , small pond . You're coming in trying to prove yourself on a college level and you make a mistake and you know he actually pulls you aside and tries to build you up . I mean it's , it's really easy . I mean there's a pool of talent there . He could have just been like what the hell are you doing ? Screw this kid and then , yeah , moved on to the next kid up , like you said , for him to go ahead , put his arm around you , build you up , to pound in the message , but do it with love , and to just take the time to show you attention and things like that . That's , it just shows the type of coach he is . And you hear stories like that about Kyle Whittingham all the time .
Speaker 2Oh and , and not everybody has this perspective on him , but I will say , um , and this led into my senior year , I'll get to which for me , this is why he's my goat . It happened , my senior Before , I still thought I was going to be a receiver at this point . Yeah , and wishful thinking , they were rotating me in as more of a… .
Speaker 1How much did you weigh at that point ?
Speaker 2Because you're not a… .
Speaker 1No , you're a big guy .
Speaker 2I came home and then that first year I was 220 , like 220 , 222 maybe , and so that year spring I was definitely a wide receiver and into the fall they were like , hey , we'll let you kind of do both , yeah , but they weren't no , and they were kind of setting the stage .
Speaker 2And season ends and Kyle , him , is in his honesty and his holding his word and , like him just telling me how it is , but also realistically trying to get me there too . Yeah , like he didn't allow me to just do it on my own , like he's like I'm getting you there too , kind of thing . Yeah , so he calls me and we sit down and he's staring me in the face and he's like , hey , here's , here's the deal , because he's doing these . Everyone's getting a one-to-one check-in before you leave , right , right . And he's like here's the deal , do you want to be the fifth wide receiver on this team ?
Speaker 1And I'm like no .
Speaker 2I want to be the first . Yeah , he's like all right . Well , right now , that's probably where you're at . You're probably going to rotate in fifth rider , cedar . If you gain 20 pounds in the off season , you probably be our starter . And I was like really , and he's like yes , and you're probably gonna have a scholarship . That like quick . And I'm like okay , and he's like you still got a lot to prove . But this is this is you have a path . And I was like done so . I gained weight , came to um . Uh , had a great to um . Uh had a great spring this was pre-spring had a great spring . Um ended up being the starter coming out of spring , going into the 2008 season . Um , and then went into fall camp as a starter , ended up having a , so as abscess and emergency surgery , it was killed me within three days and then I was out for nine months .
Speaker 1It sucked .
Speaker 2But he held his word . He gave me scholarship right before the season , did all the things that like he asked of me . Yeah , I held my end of the bargain and it was like complete checklist thing . So I had this track record with with urban , of high excellence and demand and all these things that I loved but like didn't really connect to him .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I know that sounds weird but I could never could connect to the guy or his or his assistants by the way , where Kyle , I could always connect to from the moment he recruited me , and um his staff too , cause he had Kalani Sataki , aaron Rod all these guys like I had relations and they all like Rod , all these guys I had relations with and I felt like I connected to his whole staff .
Speaker 2There's this interpersonal thing , high excellence , inner personality , so that's why he's on the go , and then led into my senior year , which has kind of solidified it . He's like my second father almost at this point . I went through heart injuries into my senior year and I felt like that whole dream was starting to kind of trickle out because my shoulder was so messed up and then I was going through a divorce . Okay , and so before the season started , we are , are we . We had separated and it was like hard line separation and so I was just not anyone who's gone through divorce I was not good , especially I'm still an impressionable kid like you know , you're still young , yeah and um .
Speaker 2I remember uh like urban and kyle had no nonsense . You miss anything like good night right , right .
Speaker 1Yeah , you're late to something . Good night , so Right .
Speaker 2Right , yeah , you're late to something . Good night , so high excellence environments . And I remember I , I like I couldn't sleep , I was throwing up all the things , yep , and we had a hard training going into , um , uh , I think , a Friday . And I remember um sending him a text like coach , I'm not doing well .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And he goes , can you be in my office ? And within the hour I said , yeah , went , went , met him there and we had , uh , a conversation that I'll always keep private , but like , basically , um , I didn't really have anyone else , it was only him , yeah , and so that private conversation happened and then he gosh . I'll , like , I'll always remember as I've talked about this multiple times and I did a article with the desert news on this is , I mean , I try to set the stage of who he is like a hardcore dude , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , no , for sure yeah .
Speaker 2You miss your late , all those things , yep . But he , he created an opportunity for me to have a day off . Okay , and that doesn't happen .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2And he allowed me to kind of mourn and kind of get myself together . Um in in 24 hours that probably he wouldn't give him to anyone else , yeah . And for that . Like I was , like dude , I would take a bullet for you at this point .
Speaker 1Really , how did that help ? Was that enough to allow you to kind of you know , yeah , he reset and in the , in the private conversation , there's some things that needed to happen and but I just was not in the place .
Speaker 2I was going gonna have a shitty workout . Yeah , no matter what , right , he knew that . But he , um , you know he rallied a couple other people like clonny I'm very close to , okay , yeah , um , clonny had no , no personal . Uh , need to have a personal relationship with me ? Yeah , he's , he was a linebackers coach and then our defense coordinator . Right , not really not . Yeah , really get hyper personal with a kid ? Yeah , but he did with me always and he , we had our own personal sessions . He was like dude , you're my dark horse , like like that I'm very little .
Speaker 2The clonies on the mount rushmore too . Yeah , I'll talk about him , but , um , he rallied clonies and a couple other coaches around me to to kind of build me up . Yeah , so I could , I could operate here and then still have like some support outside of here yeah yeah , and I got through the whole season .
Speaker 2It was not great , uh , from like injuries and things like that . Had dislocated my shoulder like 14 times and then the dream kind of you know , was ending , it was ending , went through my divorce , um , and it was brutal . And then those three , those three guys Morgan Scali included um , like really privately , kept me in my headspace together , yeah , when it was very taboo at the time Still , yeah , like mental health was not talked about .
Speaker 2And this is 2010 . Okay , it's . It's like concussions . Yeah , concussion protocols just came out , right . The year before Like we were hiding concussions from you know the trainers at this point , let alone mental health .
Speaker 1So mental health was Still yeah , exactly .
Speaker 2And these guys , you know , created an environment to keep me insulated and kind of on a personal level to deal with mental health . An environment to keep me insulated and kind of on a personal level to deal with mental health . And , uh , kyle and klani got me organized with the , the university , to get help . Okay , I had um , I had a counselor and through six months um of support and so , anyways , very , they helped facilitate all this . Is all before like any of this even existed .
Speaker 2And I obviously had a decent season . That just was tumultuous and so by the end of it I think most coaches you've got 100 guys . It's hard to maintain relationships .
Speaker 1And I see that objectively too .
Speaker 2But these guys have stayed in my life , have they really ? From the moment my time ended , they've continued to stay in my life where other coaches and that I don't need to talk about haven't right , urban would never know who I am yeah , at this point yeah , um , some of my other coaches who I thought cared about me and situations happened proved that they didn't .
Speaker 2Yeah , and those guys always did . Aaron roderick , I still talk to all the time . Okay , all these coaches , so that's why they're on . The mount rushmore is high excellence , high , um , you know football iq . High , um , you know operating iq um . High grit , high , high demand , all these things that have to exist . But also they know how to connect with people .
Speaker 2They have the compassion and they ultimately care and that's the thing that anytime anyone's ever like . Should I go to Utah and if it's Kyle Whittingham's staff , you'd be dumb if you don't go . So hopefully I've gotten some . I helped on recruiting trips , but that was the truth . These guys absolutely care about you as a person .
Success Through Position Switching
Speaker 1So after your playing career , like you said , you're going through a divorce . Any hopes of the NFL ? Dead , dead , dead . At this point I'm having surgery too . Yeah , injuries , all that .
Speaker 2My career ended with , literally we're in the Vegas Bowl and I had just rehabbed my shoulder because we played BYU and I dislocated again really bad , and you've probably seen those Don Joyce steel trap ones , not the ones where you have a shoulder brace .
Speaker 1Right , right , but this thing was like You're locked in , you can't move .
Speaker 2Yeah yep , and I had gotten myself for the bowl game because we had , I think , two or three weeks Rehabbed enough , where I'm like , oh dude , this is it , I'm going to break out , and then I'm going to have enough time before April and then I'm going to get on a . I knew I was never going to get drafted .
Speaker 1At least I'm going to get a call . I can walk on and prove myself .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm going to have a free agent situation and prove and do the thing again . Yeah , and here we warm up . I'm like dude , all the stars are aligning . Yeah , I'm feeling so good , like I feel fast , I'm big , all these things , my shoulders , so I'm fine . Go to put my shoulder pads on one of my bachelor . I put in first and jerseys are so tight , yeah , I sneak in and I have someone pull down my jersey . My shoulder just gets dislocated above my head and at that point , when we reset it , I couldn't feel my arm . And so I think you know Pat Grice too , dr Grice . So Dr Grice was like doing all these tests with Dr Petron and I could not feel my arm . I couldn't fake it .
Speaker 2I couldn't just be like , oh no it doesn't hurt , which is what you do , but I couldn't fake it . No , I couldn't fake the like , I couldn't just be like oh no , it doesn't hurt . Yeah , you know , which is what you do , um , but I couldn't even move my arm and so they would not .
Speaker 2You know , clear me to go and you know , then all the reality sets in is like my life's over I'm you know , nothing left all these things um , two , two days later I'm in surgery , but then these guys are still checking in on me , okay , and they're moving on to another season and a group of guys but they're still checking in on me , making sure .
Speaker 1I was all right . That was . My question is like you know , you get to that point season's over , they're moving on . More than likely Did you have a support system after that ? But I mean , it sounds like these guys continue to reach out and make sure you were doing okay . Kalani , absolutely , and make sure you were doing okay , but Kalani um , absolutely , kyle did for sure .
Speaker 2But like I always really respected Kyle's time too , I mean he's busy , he's busy . I mean he's got his own ends . It's recruiting and you know this , coaching too . He's got his own family who he loves yeah , grandkids who he loves . He's got his own responsibilities . Then he's got a whole new group of recruiting class , then he's got a whole group of new kids .
Speaker 2I could not expect him to be around Like he would be my dad Right Kind of thing or something like that , but he was around enough where the impact was still there , okay , and he would check in , you know , even like text messages , yeah , yeah , you know what I mean .
Speaker 1And then , clonny , would I walk because I still had a semester left , okay , so clonny would make me come and meet with him . Oh really , and that's something that , um , you know , like which I think , like you said , I mean , he's on the other side of the ball and no defense he he had . He should have no interest . He should have no interest . Yeah , the fact that he took interest , um , to that level , I mean , just shows once , like , the type of coaches that were around that program are still around that program , right , I think . Something that , um , I think people kind of forget with uh Whittingham too , and I mean he kind of did this with you , right , he's so good at bringing talent in and looking at their potential and seeing , okay , you know , you were a quarterback in high school , but I'm going to make you play strong safety and here's the path to do that . That's its own podcast .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1Like the ability for a coach and you know , in Little League , football , high school , like , at every level , you have kids that come in . Parents with those kids that you know foresee their , their playing um future a certain way . Right , yeah , I'm a , I'm a quarterback . That's what I'm going to do for a coach to be able to have the ability to . You know , look at that objectively and say you know what I think you would be better suited playing this position , and then to create a path to help you get to that , to truly maximize your playing potential and who you are as a football player . I think that's a special talent .
Speaker 2Oh , it's a case study in itself . Yes , and a lot of his assistant coaches learned that from Kyle . Yeah , and you see it being done at other places now that have been a part of that system . Jay Hill , when he went to Weber , he's changing guys as a D coordinator at BYU . Kalani saw it early . Yeah , aaron Rock , so they all know how to do it , but it started with Kyle . It really started with him and I've never seen a program compared to Utah in that sense .
Speaker 1No , ever no . The amount of quarterbacks that would come through the U of U and they would flip over to the defensive side and just ball out , ball out .
Speaker 2I mean NFL .
Speaker 1You're going to the NFL now , yeah .
Speaker 2Paul Kruger , who's one of my good friends and was my college roommate . We were the same class too . So what's so funny is my college roommates were all the same class and we all recruited together . One was a receiver , I was a receiver , paul was a quarterback . Only one of us stayed the position Isn't it Right At the end . But even John Peel ended up being a safety and switched back to receiver . It ended up being the best position for him and he was awesome at it . I remember Urban Paul . The reason why Paul went to Utah is because he told me he'd be a quarterback .
Speaker 1So he goes there . Everyone else wanted him to play something else .
Speaker 2So , he goes there , plays quarterback for a fall camp and then Kyle gets his tentacles in him and Gary gets their tentacles in him and they convince him to switch and he's pissed at first , but I mean , look at that Like Super Bowl champion , made a great career for himself .
Speaker 1Lots of money . Good choice , yes , yeah .
Speaker 2But just kind of a funny thing because there's so many of those stories .
Speaker 1You hear it all the time and I just don't know how many other programs prior to that or even now do that , at least to the extent that he does .
Speaker 2With the success , with the success , yeah , the tracker and if I'm being personally subjective about it , I think a lot of it has to do with his care . Yeah , and I think it goes back to that . He can see , obviously , if you care about a kid and you know this too when you're coaching and this is a hard thing I think most I wish parents would trust coaches more . A hundred percent is coaches are most of the time .
Speaker 2they're not to sell , like they get gratification and doing what they're doing or they wouldn't do it right , of course yeah , but the gratification and doing what they're doing or they wouldn't do it , right Of course , yeah , but the gratification comes from the kid doing great things . Yeah , not , because they very rare for a guy to be like . It's all about me .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2Very rare , yeah , so the coach caring about the kid is going to have vision into what that kid's best interest will be ? Right and Kyle perfected it . Yeah , like right and kyle perfected it , yeah , like a science . And so even when he called me and in my story he , I couldn't see what he saw , yeah , but he was right .
Speaker 1Yeah , I was wrong right right , no .
Speaker 2And then you have these other guys , like I mean track . You could list , probably at this point 20 guys in my generation that ended up at least getting a shot in the NFL . I mean stepping on an NFL field that were not the position that it came from .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , which like . I said that's crazy , it's unique yeah .
Speaker 2I don't know anywhere else no .
Speaker 1I just don't , and I think Nick Saban hasn't done that . No , I just think it's an overlooked aspect of Kyle Whittingham's coaching ability . Like you , put him on the Mount Rushmore as the GOAT . I think that piece of it is just so unique .
Speaker 2It's part of it .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's part of it . Like Paul Kruger , like these guys , they had no dreams of playing in the NFL at that position . That wasn't even a thought .
Speaker 2And here he , you know , molds them into these just phenomenal players and you may have had the similar story but , like most kids , you're not gonna be an nfl quarterback at eight . No , and this is a part with like parents , like I have hard .
Speaker 2I have to talk to some of my buddies who maybe don't have the same perspectives that we're talking about right about their kids sometimes because even myself , like I was , my history of just football was lineman running back running back quarterback running back wide receiver safety or linebacker safety wide receiver . Strong safety wide receiver .
Speaker 1Like a bunch of different positions in between that yeah .
Speaker 2Then I was a tight end in NFL .
Speaker 1Or , excuse me , in college , in college , yeah , and that was what would have been my trajectory up In college . In college yeah , and that was what would have been my trajectory Right Up .
Speaker 2And so if you think your kid at 12 is going to be an NFL insert , whatever position , because he's working with whatever position coach on the offseason yes , and you just think that the likelihood of that actually happening is not very high , it's not your kid . Your kid's going to grow , develop , change , um , have natural instincts be developed by coaches in certain aspects that just they gravitate to a different position , probably yeah well , and I think you got to be open to that .
Speaker 1You have to be open to it and I think it's more we're open to yeah , um , I'm actually going through this a little bit with my uh 14 year old right now . He's looking at , you know , high school ball . He's going over there and he just wants to play defense now and it's like that's great . But you need to go in with the open mindset of I'll play wherever the coach wants me to play . Yeah , like , because he's got every , every , every team .
Speaker 1Every coach has a different system and , depending on the players that you have , you put those players in the best position to succeed for themselves and as a whole . Oh , yeah
Leveraging Attributes for Success
Speaker 1. And so it's like don't be close-minded , go in , say , coach , I will work my butt off and I will play wherever you think is best for me . Yeah , let the coach make that . I mean , he has the big vision , the 10,000-foot view and the vision of what he wants this program to be . Yes , put your trust in that 100% . You know , and I think kids and especially parents have a hard time doing that . Yeah , you know , and I get it .
Speaker 2They think their vision is better yeah it's their kid and objective . I totally understand . You love your kid more than your coach does . Yeah , I'm not gonna argue that , no . But when we're talking about football , he's gonna have better vision , he's gonna know what's you know he , he sees all other .
Speaker 1You know 30 to 50 . You know players on that team , correct ?
Speaker 2yeah , you don't yeah , when you're when you go to a football game you're watching your son .
Speaker 1Whether he's a lineman , he's a receiver , you're only watching him . We actually told our team last year your parents , they don't care about the other 10 kids on the field , they're watching you , yeah . So go out there and give it your all . Whether you're playing line , you're playing line , you're playing . You know tight end , whatever , running back , whatever it is , yeah . So , yeah , you get a lot of armchair . You know quarterbacks , coaches , you know more than should . Yeah , I feel bad , but but no , I do think that's a unique talent that kyle whittingham had . That .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , I just it goes on , it goes back to something I think , um , I think you know translating to just professional world or things like that those life lessons of you know , um , just because you may not have been good at look good I'm using air quotes at this doesn't mean you can't be excellent at that , and that's something that I've had to had to lean on and figure out in a professional setting is that most people , like one of my business mentors is the opposite side of Jocko Willink , the other in JSOC , and all that during the war on terror .
Speaker 2He in virginia , um , his name is rich devini and rich leverages attributes , and this is something I'm like . Oh , I immediately understood it because of my life lessons from kyle right . Right is is when you can see people and what they're naturally good at and then create situations to leverage those attributes . They flourish because soft skills can be developed but certain attributes can't , and so , if you can find the right place that's why there's different departments in an organization Not everyone can be in marketing- Not everyone can be in engineering .
Speaker 2No , Not everyone can do IT , and so when you can be open minded and say you know what ? I'm not great at this . Yeah , where can I leverage talent that supports the goal and the team ? Yep , um , that's something that you know . I've learned from Kyle and you know parts from preparation from urban that I apply in like real life all the time .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , well , let so . You graduate college , you finish , you get into medical sales and now you've created your own company , elevation Health . Go ahead and just talk to us a little bit about this , because I think off the podcast . Before we started , we were talking about this and you really were kind of at the beginning stages of this whole new kind of more personalized health movement . I mean , what led you to that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , my own personal kind of experiences of injuries and sicknesses contributed to the hypothesis and some of the thesis stuff that I had gone through . But also , you know , that's why I don't have regrets in life either , because they all serve a higher purpose . And so even all the mental things that I went through from a mental health perspective all lean to this concept of what I believe is true health , which is a combination of proper mindset and psychology and physiology optimization
Unlocking Personalized Health and Wellness
Speaker 2. But in my medical career , kind of the genesis of this came from when I was going through some of the problems just physiologically over time , and I think a lot of professionals can relate with stress buildup and things like that . I was leading an organizational section for a company at the time and traveling a lot and I started to have stress buildup and have great stress management tools and the things that you know you lean on while you're growing up , even if you have a great understanding of it , like proper fitness and you know , good , high level structured nutrition .
Speaker 2Some of those things just don't function the same and so I was super high stress environment with the things that I thought would relieve some of that stress by working out six days a week and eating what I thought you know was was was pretty decently . Um , that I did when I was an athlete and not yielding , kind of the same results Um , but what ? What kind of when ?
Speaker 2when it met ahead was when I started having panic attacks and you know , I thought I was dying , you know , and my wife um , you know , would sit with me for like a time period as I'm getting through this moment and I'm like , oh my gosh , I'm like having a heart attack , and so that was a real wake up call . On top of I just could not see the same person in the mirror I would . I had this idea and this confidence . I think that you know a lot of men can relate is , even if you're like confident , like sometimes you're , you become too delusional . Yeah , yeah , yeah , for sure , with that , that drive of confidence .
Speaker 2And I used to see myself and be like oh , I'm still .
Speaker 1You know , I still got some muscle under that , that , that suit and all those things , and I can still go run a 40 at this time or whatever it might be , I can still bend .
Speaker 2Yeah , all those things that you tell yourself and the reality was like . Objectively , the mirror was not reflecting accuracy and also my environment was not .
Speaker 1I was having panic attacks , there was a problem .
Speaker 2So I started to go back to some of the things that I traditionally thought , which you and I both come from that acute medicine world . So I lean on the things like okay , well , let me talk to the people that helped me back when I was in my twenties , going through the things I did in college . You know the people that I trust . Let me get , okay , some medication . Okay , let me do this . And so I went back on SSRIs and anti-anxiety meds and it just masked things and so for a period of time I felt , you know , not myself again .
Speaker 2And so , but it masked , you know I wasn't having panic attacks , but I didn't feel like at all , like myself , even worse in many ways .
Speaker 2And none of the you know none of the mirror was changing , even though I was putting in the hardcore workouts and all these things Right , and so I had started to get really serious about why these things were structurally problematic and that was a long journey in itself . That started with understanding my pituitary axis . Through all of my concussions and just traumatic brain injury , I leveraged things that I thought were going to help some of my testosterone production get back Did not . I did that for nine months of many different things , all the things that you hear , like the supplements and you know the non-replacement stuff and ultimately I went on replacement therapy . That it was like a light switch went back on in my brain which was odd for me at the time .
Speaker 2Now I know why and it started to change slowly these other pieces of it . But then , when I was doing genomic work with a breast cancer company , a lot of my conversations were around treating near-end stages , stages two through four , with different women on their treatment algorithms based off of their uniqueness of them as women .
Speaker 2And there were four and a half different type of versions of cancer from these samples that we take from their tumors and we would basically create a treatment algorithm off of that , that uniqueness of the individual . But my conversation with these oncologists , the ones that I'm close to , or just some that I felt like I could have an open conversation with about you know , this technology , this type of environment , why are we not leveraging it in reverse ? Yeah , and the conversation was always well , there's no machine to really support it , there's no incentive , there's no insurance structure that's going to ever do this .
Speaker 2I was going to say unfortunately it comes down to that right Money talks a lot of times and that was just like real awakening of like this exists but no one's really pushing it in the right direction Right , right right .
Speaker 2Yeah , in my opinion it still is saving lives and doing the things it needs to . But so that led to just kind of a more deeper dive , to really bringing in what I would consider functional medicine and acute medicine together and not having them live in silos and not communicating to each other . So through a lot of different emerging technologies and things like that , I was able to rectify most of my problematic areas . The one area just because it doesn't exist yet that I continue to look at , or doesn't exist yet that I continue to look at the only part of my my anatomy that is aging not slower than my actual age at this point is my brain okay , and it's the one focus that I continue to focus on every single day .
Speaker 1Do you think that goes back to the the cte type stuff with , yeah , traumatic , we can't , we can't diagnose .
Speaker 2as you know , we can't diagnose CTE , but we can look at all the causations that lead to CTE , and I have all of them , unfortunately . But , you know , mitigating that and trying to go okay , which parts of the biological process can you , you know , start to slow down ? Some you can actually reverse pretty dramatically , and then some that you're like you can't do anything to stop this . But you can stop how fast it's moving , Okay , and that's kind of where we're at with brain health when you get to certain points of damage .
Speaker 2Um , and that's what you know . Uh , I continue to because it's a project for me . There's a lot of things . There's emerging therapies that do a lot of good , yeah , to help relieve either neural connections or the stress that comes from these disease states . I mean , if you look at the statistics for a lot of post-military men , yeah , so many men commit suicide way more than they were getting killed in combat , right , yeah , like exponentially more , yeah , and the , the . The problems with that is they're living in a in a stress environment . Yeah , at the highest level .
Speaker 1That just doesn't go away yeah , that's why I started with this thing with , like , the psychology physiology portions of this , and there's emerging technologies that hopefully will get approved soon to help all these things ?
Speaker 1Do you think you know therapies such as like psilocybin and different things like that you know will play into ? You know just helping alleviate some of these , yeah , traumatic stresses that you know our military comes home with football players . You know any sort of athlete that there's . You know just traumatic concussions , um , you know , through the play of sport . Yes , I , I think you know I don't look into this as much as you , obviously , but I could see that being a pathway forward for you know some of this it .
Speaker 2It needs to be in many ways , I think the stigmas around it for um , and they're totally um , not um , wrong right having like hesitations , yeah , like people should yeah , should be skeptical of anything um , but I think the stigmas around it happen to be because of um , the , the particular things being used in settings that are a little bit more taboo like more recreational as opposed to more like more spiritual context conversations , things like that I , I , I .
Speaker 2I look at it objectively . You can compartmentalize those things , yeah , but the conversation that I really kind of carve out and hone in on is , let's just strictly speaking from a therapy , you know , cognitive scientific conversation yes . Just there , without the taboo stuff . Let's take out the recreational use . Let's just talk about clinical therapies . There's enough study now that has a dramatic effect on the stress experience of these people these subsets of groups of people right tbi ptsd um you know , violence , any type of just kind of experience like that .
Speaker 2There's enough data and research at this point in institutions . Yeah , that it should be in john hopkins , a lot of institutions like that that it's doing a really positive net outcome , right , and we have enough data on that to really consensusly say that . Yeah , there's some subjective conversations going on , like the safety profiles and things like that Right , totally fine . But I think the emerging technology that's coming from this is we will end up saving so many people's lives that can use this from a clinical standpoint .
Speaker 1I think the cool thing about what you're doing with your company going back to the personalized health and just the biodiversity that every individual has every individual , you know , will react differently to you know , certain substances where you're able to get , you know , go ahead and , um , you know , do these tests , analyze the data and say , hey , this individual or this group of individuals will react to psilocybin or whatever the therapy might be in this way , these are the dosages , this is the regimen , and you can customize it and personalize it . And you can customize it and personalize it . Therefore , you're not getting adverse effects that negatively impact . Just that taboo , I don't know what the right word might be , but you know what I'm saying .
Speaker 1As far as I think we need to go ahead and specialize more with these different therapies Because , yeah , what might work for someone might not work for someone else , absolutely . And just because there is a negative effect on this subset of individuals here doesn't mean that it can't be positive for this group over here , correct ? So we can't have just this big blanket here . This is just how
Individualized Health and Wellness Approach
Speaker 1we're going to . Good , bad , yeah , right .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's a lot more diverse than that . We can't have just this big blanket here .
Speaker 1This is just how we're going to . You know , yeah , right , yeah , it's a lot more diverse than that . There's a lot of gray areas to health and and to wellness and and , like you said , you know , you got the mental side of things , you got the physiological side of things and it's a holistic approach .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I think that's what's so cool about what you're doing . It's not just here the reactionary , just the biochemistry of those things can , um , you know , yield a certain outcome on the body , and it's just understanding . Okay , how does this individual deal with that biochemical change , right , right , so , like if it's dumping , you know , if it's upping too much serotonin , and this person already has a hyper kind of linear pathway to overproduce serotonin ? Anyway , yeah , might you know , we may need to customize that a little bit more . Yeah , you can't have a general dose dependent on that , all people . And so you can , you can get into those , those aspects , or we should say we will get into those aspects in the future , um , and that we elevation will be a part of that when it gets approved , right , yes , but we can't do it now . But the aspects that we can do and we do operate is very similar . Is we were we want to understand the individual to the extent where we understand how their , their biology functions , so that we can apply appropriate strategies for the individual do you ?
Speaker 1so you go get a physical right . And let's say you go get a physical and you do get your testosterone checked . Do you think the numbers that they set out are too generic in regards to you know ? Just once again , here's just kind of the blanket statement you need to be if you're under 300 , you're low , like how did your company differentiate itself and how does it look at you know , individuals on different hormone levels , or just you know ? Whatever you're looking , at .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think I think what truly differentiates us from like a hormonal aspect is we don't have a preconceived notion of what we're going to give anyone . And I think that's where it starts is we're an auditing company . First , on the individuality , which I think is really important for people to kind of conceptually understand is most of the companies that exist have the treatment algorithm defined in what their name is . So if you go to testosterone replacement therapy company or a hormone company in their name , they are already planning to do something with you and most people don't see that correlation at all .
Speaker 1So with us .
Speaker 2We don't have any end point other than our front point is our end point , and then the end point of that becomes tools and leveraging tools to individuals . So that's the first part to answer the question . The second part is generalities aren't great and so it is hyper nuanced on the person individual and it's a combination of data , history and then symptoms .
Speaker 2And so understanding those things , if you're doing it correctly , take a little bit of effort and time and require involvement . Um , it's just like the . You know you can still have some great outcomes with half the population , like Herbert did , right .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2Or you can have a lot more personalized outcomes um with more of your players . You can still get great results by just giving yourself testosterone .
Speaker 2I'm not arguing that for a lot of men . But if you want to do it precisely and accurately and with a very complete view outside of just your hormones , then you want to start from what's causing dysfunction . What's going on with me , what makes me unique , what's causing dysfunction , what's going on with me , what it makes me unique , because then you can approach it with a more tailored kind of understanding of where should we start . Yeah , and sometimes , honestly , a lot of the times it's not starting with replacement , it's starting with what was causing the deficiency to begin with , and then sometimes it's environmentally we can't do anything like . A lot of studies have come out . Even recently they found microplastics and testicles , um , and we're dealing . Our generation and our children's generation are going going to , or have dealt with , things that the previous generations just did not because of circumstances , and so I don't look at that as like , like I wouldn't even label it good or bad .
Speaker 2It's just different . So if you're playing um , you know , if you're playing football and you don't have a helmet , you're going to play the game different , yeah .
Speaker 1If you're playing football and you have a helmet .
Speaker 2you're playing , yeah . So that's how I look at it . Okay , and so when you take an individual , you have to take that approach environmentally . What's different ? Yeah , so back to like reference ranges environmentally , where we play different , and then individually , what is going on with this person ?
Speaker 1in this environment .
Speaker 2Right , and how do we tackle that ? So , even with just traditional male deficiencies , everyone's losing testosterone . Yeah , it just happens , yeah , period , biologically . But then , secondary to that , you have the situation of two forms of hypogonadism Okay , which is going on with a man ? Of two forms of hypogonadism which is going on with a man .
Speaker 2So one could be a complete dysfunction right between the pituitary axis , from the brain to the testicles , like if you sever that communication , which is my kind of history and honestly , a lot of people with any type of heavy TBI , some people make it out unscathed great , it's awesome , but some people don't and you have a hyper dysfunction between the actual access point . Others , it's just the testicles get really lazy and so you can influence change , dependent on what's going on with that too . And so just doing replacement for everyone as a blanket answer is not bad , because , again , I don't like good or bad . It's just not fully honest . And that's where we take the approach . We'd rather take the approach with individuals , like let us uncover as much as we can to give you as much honest feedback and integrity of where we should go with this .
Speaker 1And from there there are many tools Right . Like you said , it could be simply just nutrition , changing up your diet , it could be some sort of supplement , it could be , if possible , change the environment , correct , whatever it might be , but the starting point . Then , just so the listeners understand , they come to you Is it a blood draw ? How do we go about ?
Speaker 2We have different levels of membership and investment , because to do testing requires an exchange of finances . Yeah , absolutely , that's just the truth . And unfortunately , like I said , we started the company because we were going against the system , yes , and so the system doesn't support what we do at all , right , and so we have different levels of testing , off of how much data you want to collect on yourself and the regularity of that . Okay , but we do start out with blood work , because that is a standard level of uncovering that is consensusly understood between functional medicine and acute medicine . If you're not having blood work , it's the first place .
Speaker 1Everyone agrees it's a baseline Correct . So someone could go ahead do a blood crack . So someone could go ahead do a blood draw . You guys can go ahead test it . Obviously there's a fee with that Correct , and then they can go ahead and , based off of your suggestion , looking at the data , look at some of these different memberships , and you guys can kind of help counsel them
Comprehensive Coaching for Lifestyle Enhancement
Speaker 1. I believe . Don't you guys actually do coaching with it as well ? It's not just here , take these peptides or these hormones , it's you guys help for lack of a better term elevate them completely right .
Speaker 2Yeah , so we have different aspects of lifestyle application . Okay .
Speaker 2So the more depending on the membership , it's how much involvement you want . So lifestyle factors really do matter . Lifestyle factors really do matter matter , and we uncover things at our top level even that are . There's a lot of detail that we want to help you digest about yourself , yeah , and it takes some time , and so there's lifestyle applications of that . So we have fitness and nutrition coaches on staff , and , and then we also have partnerships with other companies that we believe in and trust in , that know what they're doing on lifestyle application , nutrition and fitness . So we have some partnerships there , and then we have a couple more that we're going to expand to , that want to use our clinical services in conjunction with what they offer . So we have a very harmonious way of balancing the two of those things All right .
Speaker 1Well , brad , I appreciate it . Man , I love this company , I love where you're going , I love you as a person and everything you've gone through . Um , I love that you circled it back around to urban Meyer and Kyle . Whittingham and the difference between your company and and those others out there . But , dude , it's been a pleasure man . Um , I appreciate . Have a good one , Thanks . See you guys .