Above The Whistle
Welcome to Above The Whistle. The podcast that takes you beyond the X's and O's and into the mindset of greatness as we sit down with coaches/athletic directors/former players across the country.
Above The Whistle
Nick Vigil: What Does It Really Take to Survive 10 Years in the NFL?
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Nick Vigil pulls back the curtain on what it truly takes to survive and thrive through nine grinding seasons in the NFL. With remarkable candor, the former Dallas Cowboys linebacker shares the physical and mental challenges that come with playing America's most demanding sport at its highest level.
From his unorthodox entry into the NFL draft (where he simply declared without getting scouting grades) to playing through a broken foot during his most recent season, Vigil reveals the resilience required when your body becomes your business. He discusses the challenges of managing injuries, including three surgeries throughout his career, and how proper recovery techniques have evolved during his time in the league.
The conversation takes us inside the perpetual instability of professional football, where coaching changes can spell the end of a player's tenure with a team. Having experienced five head coaching turnovers during his career with the Bengals, Chargers, Vikings, Cardinals, and Cowboys, Vigil explains how adaptability becomes essential for career longevity. His insights into the "goldfish mentality" – immediately forgetting mistakes and moving forward – provides a fascinating glimpse into the psychological requirements of elite athletes.
We also explore the personal side of NFL life, with Vigil crediting his wife for managing their family's constant relocations while he focuses on football. As he contemplates pushing for that milestone tenth season while recovering from foot surgery, Vigil also shares his plans for life after football, including expanding the nonprofit foundation he started with his brother.
Whether you're a die-hard football fan or simply curious about the realities behind the glamour of professional sports, this conversation offers honest perspective from someone who's lived it from multiple angles – as a rookie, a veteran, a starter, and a role player willing to contribute wherever needed.
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You know, one of the most important kids you'll ever coach is the one that needs the program more than the program needs that kid. Welcome to Above the Whistle with your host, devin McCann. All right, welcome to another edition of Above the Whistle. Today we have former Dallas Cowboy linebacker and local Utah legend, nick Vigilon. Nick, thanks for jumping on man. Yeah, thanks for having me. So yeah, you walked in with a boot on your foot today.
Speaker 2Yeah, I broke it this last year and just had surgery in February. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1How long is the rehab on that?
Speaker 2I'd say seven, eight months, okay. I mean I had one doctor say maybe six, six to eight months. Yeah, seven, eight months, okay. I mean I had one get one doctor say maybe six, six to eight months.
Speaker 2Yeah, hopefully on the on the earlier side right see, so you're back in utah right now, just kind of rehabbing yeah getting ready for the the next season, or yeah, we just got back, I mean, right after the season, and then we kind of had a couple trips planned and that's why I had my surgery pushed back a little bit, yeah. And then, uh, yeah, we're here, and now I'm just rehabbing down in Lehigh with a guy.
Speaker 1So it's been going good and now you just finished your ninth year, right, yep? So looking to go in your tenth year? We were talking a little bit before the podcast started. Kind of a veteran, those calls don't really come quite yet. Are you hoping to play another year? Do you have another year in you, or yeah?
Speaker 2I mean I would like to. I think it kind of depends on how my foot and you know I had my ankle, same ankle that my foot was operated on two years ago Okay, and so just kind of seeing how it goes, right, you know, being patient, yeah, like I said, even the last two years I haven't been signed till late, late in the year, which you know, like we talked about, happens with with some veteran players. So you know we got a little time, but yeah, I'm just gonna, you know, kind of stick to what I do, train and get in shape and just see what happens. But I'd love to get year 10.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. I mean looking back at it. I mean when you say that, 10 years in the NFL, is that mind-boggling?
Speaker 2Yeah, it goes fast.
Speaker 1I mean, it went really fast, absolutely.
Speaker 2It just feels like yesterday that you were the young guy in the room. Right, I came in and I was the only young guy in the room with a bunch of veteran players, guys that had played, I think gosh. When I got to the NFL, carlos Dansby was with the Bengals and it was like year 14 for him. Oh wow, montez had been in five or six years already. Ray Maluga was seven or eight.
Speaker 1That's a good linebacking core right there.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was, and then there was a couple second third-year guys, second third-year guys, yeah and so, yeah, it was a good room to come into and so, yeah, it was a good room to come into, absolutely, and I had a really good linebacker coach, which was fun.
Speaker 3That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2I mean, it went by fast. You look back and you're like, golly, I'm 31. You still feel young comparatively, but for that business you're kind of getting up there in age where you're the old guy, Like the last couple of years I've been the old guy in the room.
Speaker 1I mean legit car crashes happening on almost every play right Like 31, you've taken some. Yeah, there's some wear and tear at that point For sure. At what point did you feel like, hey, you know I might be able to go play at the highest level?
Speaker 2Oh, it was late, like even when I was in college. My first couple years I had no idea. I just was like playing football and loving it and having a good time, and it really wasn't until my brother made it where he had he. He was in college for six years, so he was there for a long time and we actually got to play three years together, which was great, but he had left and he went undrafted, which I still think to this day. He should have gotten drafted. He's a great football player. But he made the made the dolphins roster and I was going into my junior year of college so I had redshirted and then played freshman sophomore and I was going into my junior year and my brother made a team and then I was like, oh man, this could be real, I really could have a shot to play in the NFL. And I actually ended up leaving after that year for the draft. I had declared for the draft early. Really, mm-hmm, just people were reaching out and talking you know what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1and yeah, you know, just kind of all worked out okay, um, seeing him, I mean kind of that brotherly competition, did that you know kind of spur for you where it's like, oh, my brother can make it, I can, yeah, well, we've always been.
Speaker 2Me and my brother have always been best friends, like really close, since we we were kids. I mean he's two and a half, almost three years older, but we did it I mean everything together from growing up. We still, to this day, have a great relationship, and so even I mean he was the one who actually was like you need to come into the draft, really. Yeah, he's like you can play at this level and so he's like you really need to think about putting your name in this year. And his agents and some other agents started reaching out and I just was like there's no way, you know, I need to come back and play my seat, just like how most guys do. I was like I play at Utah State.
Speaker 1You know, yeah, there's that imposter syndrome. Yeah, exactly, and so I feel like I can really do this.
Speaker 2Yeah, and you know she's my wife now, but she was my girlfriend at the time and it was after my junior year, because I was playing a lot like defense and I was playing a little offense in college. And so my brother was just like, dude, you don't want to go back to college and get hurt. And then you know, you don't get drafted, and the whole deal. And I so I thought about it. You know, I went on a trip with my girlfriend and we talked about it and I just kind of one day was like you know what I'm gonna. I told her like I'm gonna, when I get back to Logan, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, talk to Matt Wills and I'm gonna tell him I'm gonna enter the draft. And even my girlfriend at the time was like what you know? She was like you're that good, you think you can play in the.
Speaker 1NFL and I was like thanks for the support yeah, she's like you're not gonna graduate.
Speaker 2And I was like I'll graduate. I need like two classes, yeah, you know. So I'll graduate and you know, do all that. But I was like I think it's a good time for me to leave, yeah. And so I just kind of out on a whim, just declared for the draft. I went in and talked to matt one day and was like, hey, I'm gonna declare for the draft, and he was like you know, what are?
Speaker 2you doing oh really did you get a grade? Okay, because most guys that enter the draft early you put in a grade, yeah. So, like you reach out to gms and you let them know that you're thinking about it and gms and scouts will get back to you and, um, kind of give you a basis of where you are going to get drafted or not, yeah, and then you can make a decision on whether you want to go back or not and so what was your grade?
Speaker 1I didn't do any of that. Oh, you didn't know, I didn't do any of that I just, I just went you really were like I just made up my name in the hat.
Speaker 2Yeah, I just made it I just made up my mind. I had a couple conversations with some people and was just like you know what I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 2And if I don't make it, I don't make it, but I'm going to graduate anyway, and so it is what it is.
Speaker 1So walk us through the process, though you decide I'm going to go do this, I'm going to put my name in the hat here. What's the preparation for the combine and you know just your pro day and all that kind of walk us through the whole process.
Speaker 2Yeah, so mine all happened pretty quick. You know, most guys you like are seniors, or even the younger guys, like the juniors that come out there. Usually they know what, where they're going to be drafted. They're going to be high draft picks or whatever. Yep, for me, what I did is I literally made up my mind. I went and talked to Matt. I said I'm going to enter my name into the draft. I picked an agent, signed with them. Two days later they flew me on a plane to California and that's where I actually signed that I'm putting my name into the NFL draft. So I was out there two days later in Laguna Beach, california.
Speaker 2We trained in Orange County at a high school I can't remember what the high school is, um, and they had everything set up. Like you, just I mean, you don't got to do pay for meals. Like they have. You get three meals a day or really whatever you want. You know food wise. Like they stuck. Like they put me in two other guys that was signed with them in a house, like right in Laguna Beach, which was great. Yeah, um, rental cars. So they get your rental car, um, and then, yeah, like the next day, like you wake up and you go to training, and so I and and my agents were great. Um, they were my brother's agents at the time.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And I had some other guys reach out, but I really I really liked them. Their name was Ryan and Jim.
Speaker 1Okay. I mean it's nice that your brother had already kind of vetted them out, he trusted them.
Speaker 2So, you know, it makes it a little bit easier and, um, the the reason I went with them for the most part is, first off, we got along really well. But second, the trainer that I was going to be training with. His name was Ryan Flaherty. Okay, um, trainer, yeah, I mean, just like I had never trained that way in my life, yeah, and so, um, yeah, like I was out there and you start training and his whole philosophy. His name is ryan flaherty. He, he was the head of performance at nike for a few years.
Speaker 2Okay, um, made a bunch of money doing that, yeah, yeah um but his whole thing was like hex bar deadlift oh, okay and so he could predict how fast you could run a 40 based on like to the 10th of a second. Really Based off of how much you could lift on the hex bar to lift with your weight.
Speaker 2Oh really Yep. And he can nail it down basically like this is how fast you're going to run right now, wow. And so his whole philosophy was, at least when you're training for the combine, like once you start, once you get to the NFL, you need to tone it down a little bit because you got to learn to take care of your body.
Path to the NFL Draft
Speaker 2But you know you're training for your job interview, yeah. And so you know, twice a week you'd go into lift and you put as much weight on the bar as you can for three reps, four sets of three reps, and it's just he's. His whole thing was like you need to train your nervous system to lift heavy. Okay, cause, like you, you go through. You know like, yeah, you want to like in, yeah, in season, you know you have your summer training, you have your spring training where you have your strength and all that stuff. But his, his, was like you need to get strong fast, but in order to do that, your nervous system needs to lift heavy weight every every like three days or something. So I mean every every three days, you'd go in and do the hex bar deadlift and it was max weight, whatever. I mean, it was miserable, like even if they had to give you a little bump off the ground to get up to get it yeah it was like.
Speaker 1So I mean, it was like it was rigorous yeah yeah, rigorous so I uh, following um, you know, my undergrad at the? U actually went down to back in the day it was called athletes performance institute. Um, I think they've rebranded since, um, it's exos now, but I mean it really was kind of the premier place for a lot of these athletes doing their combine training and their prep work and all that and their big thing was Kaiser. I don't know if you're familiar with the Kaiser. You know kind of the pneumatic pressure. Yeah, a lot of it was just explosion and fast twitch type stuff and things like that.
Speaker 1So it's like you said, it's a job interview. Yeah, that you're really like these guys would go down there for, you know, two to three months and that's all they did every day it was. You wake up this hour, you eat this meal, you have this protein shake, you work out, go home, take a nap. Yeah, get treatment repeat yeah, get some treatment, do some recovery, yep, all All for you know.
Speaker 2To run 40 yards. Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. Do a couple little drills.
Speaker 1Do the three-cone drill and let's see your bench press.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah it was interesting, yeah, so we.
Speaker 1Do you remember all your numbers?
Speaker 2Not all my numbers. I know I did pretty good in some of them. Let's see the 40, I didn't run as fast as I wanted. I put on a bunch of weight, did you? When I was in college I was pretty light. I was playing probably around 220 to 225. When I was going to enter the draft everyone was because at that time it was a different league too. This was 10 years ago. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1Nowadays 225, 25. Yeah, nowadays that's what you're looking. Well, that's what I play.
Speaker 2That's what I play at now, you know I've went back down to what I played at college, yeah, just because of injuries and stuff. But um, yeah, like when I got to leave they were like you need to be 240, yeah, and so I put on 15 20 pounds in these couple months and I was, I just it's at that in my life. It was hard for me to keep that weight on Right, it still is like I got to eat a lot, yeah, and so I just like I got big real fast and I think I ran like a four, seven or something like that yeah.
Speaker 2Which wasn't great, but my, my, my four cone, or is it the fork, the shuttle? Uh, three cone. So I did like a six. It was like a six, seven, three.
Speaker 1Yeah, if you're in the six, you're good.
Speaker 2And then so I think it was like top 10 out of every position.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2And then my shuttle was four flat, which was really fast.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's good. Okay, so all my short stuff was really quick, quite frankly, that's what matters matters is can you change direction? Can you? I mean, what's your lateral I?
Speaker 2mean a linebacker runs 40 yards, maybe once or twice in a game, and if you do it, they're running.
Speaker 1Probably it's not.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah chasing someone, which I mean speed like that helps, obviously because you have makeup speed, but you know, being going from here to there is a little bit better absolutely and so yeah, you know, I had a pretty good combine. I didn't bench there, I waited till my pro day, but I didn't. I had a torn pec in college oh, you did, and I never had it.
Speaker 2I played a year with a torn pec and I never had surgery yeah so I'd like have a little muscle here yeah so my left arm just kind of lagged behind a little bit okay, and I've never gotten it back because I never got repaired to this day.
Speaker 1You just let it.
Speaker 2Well, no, like what it was my soft going into my sophomore year college. I, we were boating, okay, and we were riding a tube and I tore it. And it was like a month, maybe a maybe a month before training camp started, like our right, and I was called my coach and I'm like, hey, I tore my pec. And he's like what are you doing?
Speaker 3You know all pissed off.
Speaker 2They were like well, we can do surgery, cause I tore like 50, 60% of it. You know like we can do surgery and you're just going to miss the whole year. Or we just kind of hold you out during training camp and you do no contact and then let you out in the first game and play and if it tears during the season like it tears- or if it's too painful, then we do surgery and you miss, then you do surgery at that point, it just held on all year long, and so I just played the whole year.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, but then after, after the season was over, they're like we're not gonna do surgery now, it's all you scarred over yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3So just, you just manage it okay but yeah, I did.
Speaker 2I don't know. I did like 15 or 16 reps on the bench it wasn't, it wasn't good yeah, how many.
Speaker 1How many uh surgeries have you had at this point in your career?
Speaker 2um, I had.
Speaker 1I've only had three okay, only three which is pretty good. Yeah, which is pretty good. Yeah, it's not bad.
Speaker 2I had one. I had a back surgery my second year.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 2And then I had a. I tore my MCL my third year but I didn't and a partial ACL, but I didn't have to have surgery.
Speaker 1Okay, so that was good. Yeah, did they go in and scope it at all? No, they didn't do anything.
Speaker 2Well, it happened pretty early in the year.
Speaker 3Play okay, and back.
Speaker 2Then you could only bring off, I think, two people off of ir, right, and so they didn't want to put me on ir, because they were like we'll just rehab you for two or three months and see where you're at and then we can get you back for the last four games of the season, right, right, and so they did that and I was able to come back and play the last four games, okay. Okay, so I never had surgery on that, but then I had surgery on my ankle after year seven.
Speaker 1Okay, I just had, like my ligaments reattached and scoped like the atfl, all the lateral yeah, just on the lateral side yeah yeah, and then they scoped it in like five or six places yeah and then this last year, just my navicular okay, so
Speaker 1yeah um, how do those like injuries, is it kind of a setback, I mean mentally? You know surgeries can be, I mean, somewhat difficult. Just yeah, for the a normal person, yeah, you know somewhere who's using their body at a high level, playing, you know, the highest degree. I mean, how do you, how do you deal with those sort of injuries and those setbacks?
Speaker 2um, I think pretty good, just because you have really good care you know what I mean. The trainers know what they're doing. They've seen them a hundred times.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2So it's just kind of they follow their processes of this is what we do and this is your timeline. I mean you're doing something every day which a normal person you might do PT once or twice a week. You know what I mean. You got a job and you got things you got to do.
Speaker 3Yeah, for us as athletes, it's like that's all you do when you get hurt, you're, you're doing that five, six, seven hours a day.
Speaker 2Yeah, so it's. You're doing rehab and lifting and recovery all the time, right, right. So I think you get back a little bit faster, okay, um, and you get to a point where your body feels good.
Speaker 2You know, there's times where it's like god, you know this is taking forever, and it's frustrating and, um, yeah, like early on in my career, it was tough because I was starting playing every snap and then to get hurt back-to-back years and miss. I think I missed I don't know seven or eight games my second year and I was having a really good year. My third year, same thing I missed a bunch of games in there.
Speaker 1How hard is it to come back from that? Because the league, like we talked about earlier before the podcast, right.
Speaker 2They're always looking to get younger and cheaper.
Speaker 1Um, you know, and your best uh ability is your availability. Availability, right. Yeah, exactly. So if you're, you're missing seven, eight games. Is it kind of going through your head like shit?
Speaker 3yeah if I don't get back.
Speaker 2I'm gonna, I'm not gonna have a job anymore oh yeah, and, and there was like every year, because I was in cincinnati for my first year, I mean every year they drafted a linebacker in the third round really and so every year it was you know you got to fight for your job. It's not just like yeah you're the starter, you're the guy. You know what I mean it was yeah you're competing.
Speaker 2I mean, that's how the nfl is, but that's what makes it makes it so fun too is the competitiveness. You know what I mean. It's it if you can't get it done, right, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1So it's it's just always that competition level of have you always had that mindset Cause I don't think that's a typical mindset. Like you, you talk about the fun of like competing and all that. Yeah, I think a lot of people there's anxiety.
Speaker 2Well, there's for sure anxiety with it. Okay, mean you're, you know it's. It's a very stressful job, like everything you do, from the way you get in your stance to your alignment to. Is I mean every, every play in a game or practice. Is I mean you watch every snap throughout the whole season. So it's I mean if you mess up a couple times, like they'll be on you you know pretty good and it's like you know you get yelled at or you get.
Speaker 2So everything you do is is analyzed to the smallest degree, right, yeah, all the time. And that's what I'm saying is it's just like you have to learn to put the good plays behind you and the bad plays okay every day. So it's just like you have to, and some guys can't, you know, I mean, and some guys crumble under that pressure and some guys rise above it and some guys.
Speaker 1No, I think there's a lot of people that can't do that. Um, you know, there's something to be said for that kind of goldfish mentality where, yeah, you know, yeah, you messed up on that play, yeah, forget it and move on. Some people can't and they dwell on it and it eats them alive and, and I think there's you know you're possibly entering your 10th year. How many? I mean percentage wise do you know? Like, what's the percentage?
Speaker 2of people that actually play 10 years in the NFL now, yeah, not very many. Not many, right.
Speaker 1Like you know. I mean some of it's just, you know, being healthy and all that, but I think a lot of it's just having a mindset that just and a lot of it's opportunity at that level too.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, I mean there's politics, just like anything else. It's, you know, like money talks, where you're drafted talks and if an organization makes a mistake there, they don't want to admit it because that's the coach's job, and so those kids are going to get ample opportunities to succeed, even if you know, rather than an undrafted guy.
Injuries and Career Resilience
Speaker 2Yeah opportunities to succeed, even if you know, rather than an undrafted guy. Yeah, if he's a better player, he's not going to get the opportunities that somebody else would you know and they might be like I think that happened. My brother okay, um he because he played really well when he was playing but his coaches all got fired. And in the nfl when your coaches get fired, it's like could be a death sentence it could be a death sentence like they.
Speaker 2new, new regimes come in new gms, new coaches, and they want to build their, their roster the way they want to build it, and so they kind of let go of the guys they can and bring in who they want.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2And that happened with my brother, and that's. I mean I've had five or six coaches fired in my nine years in the NFL, and so that's you know, I believe, why I've bounced around a ton. Yeah, for sure, from team to team to team, and a ton, yeah for sure, from team to team to team, and so, um, that's just how it is, and you, just you try to find a way and you try to make a team and compete, and, yeah, how hard is it to have that happen, though?
Speaker 1um, you know you have your position, coach your head, coach all these different people, and they get let go, and you have to to, you know, build trust with a new regime, like you said, coming in and and learn their system, and I mean, how difficult is that to almost have to hit a hard reset?
Speaker 2you know, every year, with just yeah different coachings and and things like that yeah, it's, I mean every every team's different, like um, the my the d coordinator who drafted me. His name is paul gunther um, and so he was the defense coordinator cincinnati and he drafted me and then he left after, I think, my second year to vegas. Um, anyway, what kind of happened was? I played my four years in cincinnati, you know marvin was fired after my third year. We had a terrible season my fourth year with zach taylor and all those guys got there. So they made a ton of changes. They didn't bring a lot of guys back, they cut a lot of guys and just kind of started from the ground up yeah like a whole rebuild deal.
Speaker 2So I went to la for a year. It was covid. We had no off season. It was like you showed up a week or two before training camp yeah um, and you just played, and they drafted a linebacker in the first round and they had a bunch of young guys that they liked and they were all real. I mean, they all became really good players yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2And so I was just kind of like a rotational guy, played a lot of special teams and then after that year, because I was on a one-year, those coaches all got fired. Okay, and Paulie got a job with Minnesota Vikings and he brought me to Minnesota and I had a great experience there. I loved it. You know, I played a lot, had a really good season. Zimmer had been there for like eight years, yeah and then unfortunately, we didn't make the playoffs and he got fired and it was like but they, you know, and then I went to, I think, arizona for a year learning those guys. They all got fired, yeah, um, and so it was like a new regime comes in.
Speaker 2And then I was hurt. That year I think I only played in four games. Um had surgery late in the year because they tried to rehab me back to play. But after like two and a half months of rehabbing it was just like this isn't getting better, right, let's just do the surgery now and deal with it. So I didn't get healthy until, like, training camp and then got in the training camp with the jets. It was the first time I was ever cut. They cut me after training camp. I got there late and then minnesota picked up, went back there, played a year and then Mike Zimmer and Paul Gunther got jobs in Dallas and they're the ones who brought me to Dallas this last year, and so it's kind of a good thing sometimes because coaches can bring you other places if they like you or you've played well and you kind of build a reputation over the years in the league.
Speaker 2I think I am what I am at this point. I'm an older guy. I've played a lot of different positions. They know I'm smart, they know I can play and I can play special teams.
Speaker 1I think there's something to be said for that, like you know, your willingness to play special teams, your willingness to, you know, just get in and grind every day. I mean it's a business.
Speaker 2Oh yeah.
Speaker 1And and and you want people in the locker room that are going about their job like a business and they're, you know, getting up early, they're putting in the work and they have a reputation and a brand about them. I think that's probably what's led to you being in the league for so long. Yeah, um, cause I don't think a lot of people have that mindset. They, you know, I don't know I've there's a lot, of, a lot of guys that you know they go into the league. They, you know, get cut and and they just they flounder and they, they can't get past that.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean the mental side of the game is is a huge part of Just understand like the NFL is a lot different than college and high school where you play a lot of different types of schemes. Like you could be playing against an option offense one week, the next week it's spread, the next week it's power eye. Like in the NFL it's all kind of the same, like everyone does really the same thing. It's a copycat league. It's a copycat league and there's a, there's a new like cool thing that everyone's doing every year where it's like, oh my god, how do we stop this? You know what I mean. And so it's just like. The mental side of the game is is really like just watching film and trying to wreck because, like offenses, just try to.
Speaker 1They do this all, they all do the same thing all the time it's all just this guy and they just disguise it with emotion and a shift and they try to get your eyes moving and so it's just film.
Speaker 2It really is just like film study and understanding of like scenarios and where you're at in the game and what an offense is trying to do. Okay, and they're always just trying to find a matchup. Like how can I get this guy matched up on this guy? Yeah, and they either make a really good call or it's not a good call and you get a stop on third down, or it's a great call, or a guy just gets beat and it's one-on-one and yeah, that's just kind of how the nfl is and so you just yeah. I mean, over the years, I've just learned to like this. Last year in dallas I like I said like I got hurt, I broke my foot, like week three okay of this of the season yeah and uh, I just thought, you know, oh, they're gonna.
Speaker 2I just thought, well, yeah, they're gonna put me on IR and yeah, you know, that's that yeah. Um, but they didn't they. They came to me and they were like, can you keep playing? And I, you know, I was like I don't know We'll you know we'll see.
Speaker 3Yeah, I can try.
Speaker 2And the trainers were really cool. They were like, well, you're not going to practice, so you just show up for game day, make sure you know. Yeah, and so I would move around a little bit on Saturday.
Speaker 3I'd ride a lot of bikes to try to get my cardio up and then I would just go out there and play on Sunday.
Speaker 1But they were, you know, they were great about it because they were just like he knows what he's doing, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't need the reps right um, and so it just kind of worked out that way, which was good yeah, no, like I said, I think there's something to be said where your reputation precedes you. I mean, obviously you put in the work and people see that and then it affords you an opportunity, kind of like that, as a kid from Utah, I mean, you saw your brother make it, but I mean we're not a hotbed here, we're not your Florida, we're not your Texas. We're not a hotbed here, we're not your Florida, we're not your Texas. Like, um, you know, did you always kind of have dreams and aspirations of playing the NFL, or did you?
Speaker 1um like I think it's becoming different now. I think there's more people coming from Utah. Yeah, um, you know, I mean corner Canyon's been putting uh kids into the NFL pretty regularly now. But they weren't even around when I was, but they weren't even around you know, what 15 years ago, whatever it was, like you know, sea monkey, you know like that sort of thing. Like how did you, yeah, where did you, besides your brother, I guess you know?
Speaker 2Yeah, we I mean really when we were young, like we wanted to be bull riders when we were kids, we did, we did, we did, like youth rodeo no kidding yeah.
Speaker 2So we did all that. I mean, we got horses and yeah, and stuff like that. So we do a lot of stuff in the outdoors and hunting and we just me and my brother wanted to be cowboys. That's what we really wanted to do. We wanted to ride bulls and that's what we were gonna do. My brother got a really bad injury when we were young and my parents were like you guys are not going to do this anymore. You can play football if you want to play football. And so we were like all right, and so we just like we just started playing little league football and I played a lot of basketball growing up and I wrestled a little bit and played baseball like we just like. Nowadays, I just see kids and they get so focused on like, oh, I gotta, I gotta play one sport and I got to do this, and I think that does a lot of kids a disservice really.
Speaker 2Yeah, because I think we just, and we were always outside doing stuff, yeah, and all through the year, like in the winter we played basketball, in the spring you played baseball, in the fall you played football. I just think they all, and if kids love it and they're competitive, like some kids just aren't competitive, right, you know what all like you just and if kids love it and they're competitive, like some kids just aren't competitive, right you know, I mean so they're. And we were just competitive with each other and with our friends and in our sport and we just fell in love with sports and so we just did it all the time, like all through the year we I'd play pickup basketball all the time and I I still to this day I'm like that's why I think I became a good football player really I think basketball is like the best thing for a football player.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, you've seen, I mean it's short area quickness it's endurance it's hand eye coordination it's it's body position? Yeah, it's like it's it's you're.
Coaching Changes and Team Transitions
Speaker 2You have to you learn how to feel people in space.
Speaker 3You know what?
Speaker 2I mean, like people around you, you have to have awareness, use your peripheral vision. Yeah, I think it's great for kids, especially when they're young, to play basketball.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean you hear about, like I mean, Antonio Gates comes to mind, Like you know, these basketball players that especially at the tight end position, yeah, for some reason. Yeah, whatever that transition, I mean they do it pretty seamlessly. But, yeah, I think, a lot of kids, to your point I think, as parents we try to specialize way too soon with these kids, and they should. They should be able to play a multitude of sports and all these different what's the word I'm trying to look for here?
Speaker 2Just movements and skills and all that they all can translate yeah, exactly you know but, and it'll naturally happen like what they're better at yeah like there was a time where I I liked basketball better than I did football. Yeah, but I just I was always better at football and I don't know why. I just well I'm, and I just gravitated towards it as I got older yeah, and like I got burned out from baseball.
Speaker 2I played a lot of travel baseball growing up and I got to high school and I was like I am not well, I'm sure I wasn't that good either.
Speaker 1So I was like this is you know, this is in the sport. But I mean, I'm sure your kids, your oldest, um, he's what he's five, five, you'll get to it where your, your kids, it just depends what season is. Yeah, what's your favorite sport? Oh, it's baseball right now, yeah, you're like, okay. Two months later, nope. I, I like football now, yeah, okay, two months later, it's nope I like lacrosse.
Speaker 2I mean, you know they're kids, they don't even know what they don't know. Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 1Let them go out there and try, like I said, a multitude of different things yeah and those skills will translate um. But yeah, I think there's just so much pressure now to yeah it's crazy, the complex, yeah, you know it's like I'm glad I didn't grow up now. Yeah, like you're looking at it, it's like five and six-year-old kids on a comp basketball team and you're like, shouldn't they just be playing like rec basketball and having?
Speaker 3fun.
Speaker 1Like they can't even dribble the ball yet. What's comp about this? I know what's comp even. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2I and like we put my son in soccer.
Speaker 3You know, the last, last year yeah, and I'm like you know he's. At the time I think he was three, four, yeah, and I was in like he's just running around like half the time.
Speaker 2He doesn't like he don't care what's going on and I'm like because I didn't start playing organized sports till I was eight, seven, seven, eight, and I'm like he's four years old and you know, it's just like we're just out here to let him run around, but, but, like.
Speaker 1Quite honestly, I just want them to tire out.
Speaker 2Yeah, so I can take them home and put them in bed.
Speaker 1Yeah, at the end of the day they can go to bed and not run around all night.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's just, it's been interesting you know, having my own kid and you know he's not even interested in any, you know he likes to go out and hit the baseball, yeah, wants to do is go make a fire. And he wants to go, like I take him bear hunting with me. Okay, he wants to go bear hunting, yeah, all the time.
Speaker 3so it's just like he wants to be outside, in the outdoors, camping or something, right, right, it's like he has he has no interest in sports really very little, and that's fine.
Speaker 1It's fine like if he wants to at some point, then he will then yeah, you know, yeah, but right now just let him be a kid um does he? Recognize. Like does your wife put on games and say oh, there's dad. Like does he recognize. Like does your wife put on games and say oh, there's dad.
Speaker 2Like does he?
Speaker 1comprehend that at all at this point. Yeah, Does he? Yeah?
Speaker 2he knows what I do. Even my daughter she's, you know, almost three. She kind of knows like anytime football is on the TV or something. She's like you know that's daddy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1And it's like well, I'm not out there right now, but you know that's what I do. Yeah, I do that. Okay, yeah, but he, you know, I don't think he really realizes, yeah, you know, at this point, but at the same time he knows, you know, I play football, yeah, and all that. Yeah, um, how's it been?
Speaker 1having a family, you know like moving around minnesota, yeah, yeah, new york and dallas, like I mean, you guys always seem to come back here to utah, but you know, and your kids are young still, but yeah, how is that?
Speaker 2uh, thank god for my wife.
Speaker 2Yeah, because she does everything right I mean I basically just train and play football and she handles children moving, finding a place for us to live, um, I mean she packs up. Basically she just like, packs up a car like our big, our big suburban. She packs it up, throws in, like some kids, toys, a crib, um, like some stuff she likes for cooking, yeah, and we ship it to wherever we're at. And then she packs up bags and clothes like whatever she thinks we're gonna need, or at least the kids.
Speaker 2I usually have my stuff out there yeah and she flies the kids out, usually with her mom's help okay and then uh, yeah, like she sets up everything, I mean she handles everything handles it yep, and so for me it's very stress-free for her.
Speaker 2she's even this last year. She's like dude, she's like nick, I don't know like how much longer really. Yeah, you know I can do this. Yeah, especially like if we go to a new city, you know a new team, she's just like it's a lot, I lot for her. Then she's got to pack it all up Once the season's over, because we've just been renting houses wherever we've been Right. When the season's over, you go in for exit meetings the next day. Then it's like you're in the off season, you don't have any obligations, we pack up and go home. She packs up, everything flies home. I usually drive one of the cars home, then we ship it home and we get back here and then it's like, well, now we got to get settled here, right, right, and so it's just, you know, even though our kids are young, like it's still an adjustment.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, but um, so does she like talk to you about?
Speaker 2okay, like I know we're going, I I can's an awesome number yeah, I hear you, honey, but I think you know, I don't know how many more years. We can do this, I think we're both on the same page of just. She just kind of lets me do my thing, which is great, yeah, you know, like she knows I love it. Yeah, she knows I can still play, yeah, and so she just kind of you know, is like wherever you want to do, do it.
Speaker 2Yeah, if you want to be done, we can be done right right but she's also said that if you do go somewhere this year, we might stay home, we might stay in utah actually yeah okay, so we'll kind of see what happens.
Speaker 1But all right, all right, um. So what would be next, though? Like? Let's say you know you, you get your 10th year, play this next year. And then you decide, okay, I, I've done enough.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1What's next for?
Speaker 2Take a year off.
Speaker 1Take a year off.
Speaker 2Yeah, Take a year off, hang out with the family and kind of see what we want to do. Okay, we've oops, sorry, we've started a nonprofit foundation a few years ago.
Speaker 3Oh, okay.
Speaker 2That we would like to do a lot more with. We did it with my brother and his wife.
Speaker 1Okay, what did it with my brother and his wife? And what is it, my wife? It's called risen agenda.
Speaker 2risen agenda, okay, yep, and so we do a football camp every year and that's kind of all we've done that yeah, um, to like raise money and do things like that, just put on a camp. It's all funded and paid for and you know it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2We get a lot of the underprivileged kids okay um in the area yeah and so we just do that and do like a big lunch and I don't know it's been fun kids, of kids that seem that are underprivileged in this area, that just don't have opportunities you know, that other kids do, and so that's kind of what we want to do, a little bit more of.
Speaker 1It's kind of I mean sports is expensive now.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1It really is. And you see some of these kids and you know, like over at the high school the other day, they're kind of walking through all the costs that's associated with it, the high school here in town, they're actually going to go out to texas this next year and play, and just the associated costs with all that. And you just you kind of feel bad for some of these kids because it's you know, their families don't have. Yeah, the funds necessary for for all this and and yeah, I think that's a an awesome thing, what you guys are doing, because it affects a lot of people.
Speaker 1I feel like yeah, for sure. Because it really it's become a lot more than, yeah, we're just playing the team next door, you know, we're just driving 10 minutes and playing the city across the river here. Like sports has become a. I mean it's a big deal. Yeah, it's just different, like you know, from from the nfl all the way down to little league. It's just it's the money that's involved with.
Speaker 2It's kind of crazy at times, yeah so yeah, anything you can do to it to help out, yeah, and even that, like we'd like to help even just kids like uh be able to go to school.
Speaker 2Yeah, like sponsor them for to go to get a trade okay, I mean kids that can't afford to go to college, or something like pay for able to go to school. Yeah, like sponsor them for to go to get a trade okay, I mean kids that can't afford to go to college, or something like pay for them to go to electrician school or be a plumber okay or anything, yeah, anything like that, you know.
Speaker 1I mean they graduate high school, they don't want to go to college or they can't yeah, it's like well, you know here's we'll we'll fund you to go do this okay, if that's what you want to do, so do you guys try different fundraisers throughout the year? That's what I'm saying. Is we just started the one, and so?
Speaker 2we're. We want to do more, we want to get that kind of going a little bit to help out will it all be kind of camps or um camps and I don't, yeah, still yeah we're still. We're still working through that. Okay, we still got a lot of well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1A lot of planning, yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. Of the different cities you have lived in I mean what's is there one that you know really resonated with you and your wife the most?
Family Life as a Pro Athlete
Speaker 2All have been great really. Um, we loved Cincinnati. We were there for four years and we were with a good group of people, like a good core of people that we were there with all four years, um, um, and we built a really good community. Just a lot of us were in the same phase of life, like young, um, married, no kids yet um, and we had a really good bible study group okay um with people that were still really close with, like, one of my buddies.
Speaker 2They live in florida. My other buddies in wisconsin, one's in texas. They're kind of all over place. But yeah, we just had a really good time there. And Cincinnati is not the funnest town but it's great. We made the best of it and we loved it. And then when we spent the year in California, it was COVID year but it was actually great because there was no traffic. They did the whole lockdown thing but they didn't lock down. Yeah, at least in orange County. Okay, like uh, when the governor came out and was like hey, we're going to, you know all your restaurants and stuff got to lock down. The sheriff of orange County was like.
Speaker 2Nope, not happening If you want to keep your business open, like, just be smart. It's like we could still go out to dinner and and do fun things and we'd go to the beach on my off days and take the kid to the beach and hang out, and it was great yeah, yeah um, I think minnesota was probably our favorite was it okay.
Speaker 1What about minnesota um?
Speaker 2we. We met some really awesome people, had some good friends, um, and then just the way the organization runs themselves. They're fantastic okay they do a lot for the wives and the kids and they always have something going on, okay they kind of keep some busy you know, because it can be kind of lonely like, especially for my wife, like she moves across the country like, well, I don't know anybody no family I'm with people all day long.
Speaker 3Yeah right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2So it's like I make friends and, yeah, I'm busy all the time, but her, like she's at home with the kids.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Which can be?
Speaker 1kind of isolating in and of itself right, exactly, but to not have family and friends nearby, yeah, and so Minnesota did a lot of stuff that just kind of connected people Okay.
Speaker 3Which was great, okay.
Speaker 2And then Arizona was okay, okay.
Speaker 1It was so hot, that was my seventh year, seventh year, it was okay.
Speaker 3okay, it was so hard. That was my seventh year, seventh year, okay, and it was really hot during the summer yes, and uh, we had just had my daughter, who was a terrible baby.
Speaker 2My second, yeah, she was like colicky and sick all the time and so my, you know, my wife wasn't sleeping, it was, it was. We didn't get out a lot, yeah, um, and so that one, that one, was tough, but and then Dallas was great.
Speaker 3I love the Frisco area it's grown a ton.
Speaker 2And Dallas does a lot of awesome things too. Their organization is great.
Speaker 1Okay, you always hear about Jerry Jones and the organization and how he runs it. I mean, you don't know what's media, what's truth?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think it's great. I loved Dallas. I played in a lot of different places. Not everyone's going to be happy. You can't keep everybody happy. People are going to complain or whatever.
Speaker 3But for me. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1I loved it. Playing for Jerry Jones was great. Do you have a preference? Like if you could wave a magic wand for this 10th year.
Speaker 2Nope, just, you know, wave a magic wand for this 10th year. Nope, just get 10.
Speaker 1Just, give me 10. Just give me that 10th year. Yeah, Okay, We'll see. Yeah Well, that's awesome. Um well, I appreciate you jumping on man I, we've been trying to connect.
Speaker 1I know I'm the worst at scheduling and it's life's busy man, life is busy, but I truly appreciate you jumping on Um kind of just like I said you said the name of this podcast is Above the Whistle and so just kind of that mindset, what it takes to get to the next level, and just the habits you have and the belief you have, that and giving the listeners a little bit of an insight on you know, just some of the things that you need to do to kind of excel and go beyond.
Speaker 2So yeah, I mean, I was like I said I was just lucky with really the way I was raised and then really the people that I was around. Yeah, like when I got to Utah State, the people that were there were just like like my brother, guys like I don't know if you heard, like jake dowdy, kyler fackrell, um, and those guys were just like grinding tough, like my brother was a walk-on, jake dowdy was a walk-on who they ended up becoming two of the best linebackers that ever played there yeah, yeah um, and so I just like had so many good people around me to learn really how to conduct myself and what it took to be a college football player.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2That set me up for success, to go to the next level, and even my coaches, like my linebacker coach at Utah State because I didn't play linebacker, I mean I was a running back and a safety yeah.
Speaker 3In high school.
Speaker 2Yeah, and he was just such a stickler about like learning and understanding defense and how offenses work and just like I like when you're in high school, like sometimes you're just better, yeah, better athlete or better player like, and so your, your natural ability just takes over but like to actually learn, learn the game. I learned it really early on yeah in college, which, like, helped me out a ton yeah it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1You hear, you know like there's stories and you know like jamis, winston or different, you know athletes where they'll put like a hundred dollar bill on the the back of the playbook and, yeah, be like you know. So do you?
Speaker 3go through the playbook.
Speaker 1Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah yeah, and those athletes that are able to just get by on their, they're just god-given natural abilities and talents.
Speaker 2Yeah, there's a few.
Speaker 1Versus the ones that, like you said, really dive in and learn the game and learn the different concepts, and why would the offense try to do this? And on a defensive side. How do we counter that? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2Yeah, like he would. My linebacker coach he would, and you know he had his faults. Yeah, I mean we we clashed a few times. But he would like when I was a freshman he'd like he'd put you up on the board and he'd say, okay, he'd just give you and we had a huge like our playbook was huge in college, I mean it was bigger than a lot of the defense or NFL ones I've had and he'd be like okay, get up on the board. And he'd give you a call and he'd be like, okay, draw it. And he'd tell you an offensive formation, like, draw the offensive formation. So you had to remember, you know what they called it and whatever. And you would have to draw every single player on defense and exactly what they were supposed to do.
Speaker 2And he wouldn't like that's how he'd end his meetings, and he'd be like all day long if you didn't figure it out Really, and so he would just do little things like that.
Speaker 1How do you think the game of the NFL, like you've mentioned a couple times, like bigger playbook at Utah State, just like in high school, even you're running the option wing tee, you you're running, it's all pretty much similar. I mean there's a lot of rpo stuff in the nfl now. Yeah, um, defenses kind of changed or a little bit on the defensive side you've mentioned you know linebackers went from 240.
Speaker 2Now you're down to guys are like 25, some guys like 210 and just running around, yeah you want speed on on that side of the ball nowadays.
Speaker 1Well, on both sides. How do you think the game has changed in the last 10 years, as far as you know? Has it changed for the better? Do you think it's being watered down a little bit, Is it?
Speaker 2I think just with some of the rules. I think it's taken away from the game a little bit yeah um they you know the way that I get, like they're trying to protect players but at the same time, like it's football, it's football you know, I mean like everyone knows what they're doing.
Speaker 2You know I mean like you're getting paid millions of dollars to play. Yeah, and it's just. I mean everything's really tailored for the offense. You know they want. You know fans don't want to watch a six to ten game. You know what I mean. It's just. I mean everything is really tailored for the offense. You know fans don't want to watch a 6-10 game. You know what I mean. It's like your viewership goes up if it's 45-37. 100%. You know what I mean and so I get what they're doing. But I just think it takes away a little bit. I mean 10, 15 years ago, before all this targeting stuff, I mean there were certain areas of the field the quarterback wouldn't throw the ball like late in the down. Now it's just like as a defender it's like.
Speaker 2I mean it's hard, like yeah the ball will be thrown anywhere because. And then when you do hit somebody because I mean it happens like that, you know, I mean like ball's thrown, you turn, you, run you it's a reaction you hit them and it's like oh god, well, now I've been fine.
Speaker 1Now I've been fine thirty thousand dollars, they got a $30,000.
Speaker 2They got a first down, they score.
Speaker 3Yeah, and it's like well, you know, and that's you know.
Speaker 2I mean $30,000 like, and then the next time you do it it's double, and then it's double, and there's double, and it's double. Right, and so it's just. I think the fine system in the NFL has got out of hand and just some of the rules that I mean. It is what it is. You have to adjust and you have to adapt and you can as a player, but right, when did?
Speaker 1they change the rule on like with the rpo, like when did that come into place? That linemen can be literally like three yards down?
Speaker 2yeah, I think it's like two yards.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think it's like two yards I don't recall it like I don't know when that rule changed, but I just don't think it was in the nfl until a few years ago really, because when I first got in the NFL it wasn't. Yeah, RPO wasn't big.
Speaker 2Yeah, that wasn't a thing You'd have a little read option. Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't like the read option with the throw and all the stuff now.
Speaker 1But now you've got Jalen Hurst, patrick Mahomes, everyone's running.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's all RPO stuff. It's sort of RP a linebacker.
Speaker 1You have alignment yeah on the second level blocking.
Speaker 2I know they're climbing up to you you got to fill your gap at the same time, like they run a little bang route behind you. As a linebacker like you gotta, you gotta protect the corner right and so it's. You know it's tough, yeah, yeah but offenses are smart and they adapt. Like defenses they are constantly trying to catch up to what, and then once the defense does like, you'll see it have success for a while and then you'll kind of see, yeah.
Speaker 1Plateaus.
Evolution of the NFL Game
Speaker 2It plateaus because the offenses figure out. Okay, we now know the rules of the defense, now we can attack the rules, yeah, yeah, with within the scheme, right, right. And so it's just like this, ever changing, which is why I think, like you're going to see in the NFL, like bigger bodies, people running the ball, because everyone has like slimmed down, got smaller, faster, looks like we'll let's line up and run it down your throat, because you know what the eagles are doing. Well, that's, what I'm saying is like their offense line was huge and they had the best running back in the league and you got a quarterback who can run it and you got a guy on the outside who, just you, can't play single coverage because, I mean, they'll just throw it up and it's going to be a pi or it's going to be a catch.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, and so it's like you either keep eight in the box and you rely on a corner one-on-one or you give them six, seven yards or a carry, which is like. The thing with the NFL now is like a lot of people aren't willing to do that. No Like run the ball over and over and over. Everyone wants chunk plays, shot plays, where it's like you watch Tom Brady play. I mean, I played against him a couple times and he was so good because he was content with check downs, he was content with safe throws.
Speaker 3And then he'd take his shots when he had to.
Speaker 2You know what I mean. That's what made him so good. But he could read coverage and he knew what you were doing. So he knew exactly like, okay, they're taking away the deep shot, boom, I'll dunk it down here, I'll take five yards, yeah, and he would do that all the way down the field. 15 plays like offenses. Now they just get greedy, yeah and it's like we're gonna get our speed guy. I'm gonna take a shot.
Speaker 1I'm gonna take another shot and it's just yeah, it's just changed that way it's yeah, it's just it's funny and I mean you could probably go back to the 70s and, you know, say how it's changed. I mean, yeah, every five years it seems to change yeah, it's always ever changing and stuff like that, but it just, it just seems like it's a little bit watered down now. But to your point, I think now you're going to see these, these teams will, will just start running it then that's what I would do if I was a coordinator, I would.
Speaker 2I'd get big bodies who could run block and a good running back. You get a good weapon on the outside and it's like Stop us yeah stop us, I mean stop us in the run game. You got to bring everybody, so it's.
Speaker 1I mean you don't got the 250 linebacker plugging that gap now, right there's a couple guys around that will come down and smack you.
Speaker 2But yeah, I mean everyone's slimming down, it's just, I mean I did it, I got lighter just because I had some injuries and whatever, yeah, yeah and just because the game changed a little bit.
Speaker 1Yeah, you played offense, though, too, at Utah State, didn't you?
Speaker 2College. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was fun. Yeah, that was really fun.
Speaker 1Running back right, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, how was that going both sides? I mean, you got Travis Hunter getting all the love right now for playing both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2It was good, it was just kind of out of note. Well, it happened the year I tore my pec. Okay, so, matt, he was the head coach but, he called plays. Actually, I don't know if he called the plays. I don't know Either way he was heavily involved in the offense. He's an offensive guy Right and before the season started he was like what do you think about playing running back?
Speaker 3And I was like, yeah, that'd be great, why not?
Speaker 2But then I got hurt and he was like, never mind, but we were going to play BYU and we had struggled running the ball and we had a bye week and he called me into his office for something. He needed to talk to me about something. And I went into his office and as I was leaving I made a joke like hey, what about running back, you know? And he was like, are you serious?
Speaker 2I was like yeah, he's like you really want to do it. I was like, yeah, he's like, all right, I'll put in, I'll put in a package for you this week. And I was like, oh really, he's like, yeah, I'm serious.
Speaker 3And then we just kind of repped it throughout the week.
Speaker 2He's like I'm only going to give you a couple reps, some third and short stuff, maybe a first down, but he's like the second play of the game, you're going to get the ball no matter what, because offenses will script their first 10, 15 plays.
Speaker 2So he's like you're in the second play and I was like, oh sweet, so he gave me the ball and I ran it good, and then it just kind giving me the ball, and then we played. I don't know who we played, but I got the ball again and then we played like Air Force and I started both ways that game. I had another touchdown and then I think he gave me like a week off where he was like I'm not going to play you on offense.
Speaker 2Like you're getting too many reps Right, and so I was like okay, cool, and then we lost. I think we lost that game. And he was like I'm not doing that again.
Speaker 1So then we were going both ways.
Speaker 2Yeah. So then we played. It was like we were playing new Mexico and I ended up pulling my hamstring and so then it was like kind of on the back burner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like we need you on defense, right.
Speaker 3And so then I didn't.
Speaker 2I don't think I played the rest of the year until the bowl game. Okay, and then I like tore my hamstring in the bowl game like late in the fourth quarter. Yeah, and then, yeah, my junior year, I think I played a couple games.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2Very sparingly.
Speaker 1Yeah, do you think they looked at it as like over you? I probably just wasn't taking care of my body as much Like I just.
Speaker 2I don't know, and it was a lot of reps Like in college, like you could play 100 snaps on defense. You know what I mean, and so, and then to get an extra 15 on offense like that's a lot.
Speaker 2That's a lot, I mean and so it just over time it just wears up. But you know, like back in college, like I didn't know anything about like dry needling, and you know what I mean. Like I wasn't seeing a chiropractor and I wasn't, you know, getting cupped, like I was getting a massage once a week yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2And then even yeah, just yeah, no, recovery is huge and so recovery is huge, and so I just I hadn't learned at that point in my career like how to really recover and take care of your body. Yeah, yeah. So it was just. What do you think of?
Speaker 1someone like travis hunter, that's you know that's unbelievable.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, I mean it's, he's a freak. Yeah, he's a freak, and I think there's other guys you can do it yeah, you know, he just had the opportunity.
Speaker 1I you know what I mean I think, yeah, there's a lot of guys haven't been afforded the opportunity yeah, coaches are like no, yeah, we don't need you we don't need you, we're just gonna put you on this. Yeah, you're really good here. We'll just keep you here and keep you healthy and yeah.
Speaker 2I mean especially those big universities like they got so much talent that it's like you know, we don't need a guy playing linebacker and running back Like we got three five-star running backs that are here that that now we're paying money. You know what I mean. So it's like yeah.
Speaker 1What's your, what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2You know what is the?
Speaker 1NIL deal. Are we getting too? Do we need to come up with some sort of cap system, though? Because right now you look at the top teams and it's a direct correlation to their fund for NIL deals. You're like, oh, but it was like that before I think. It's not talked about. Yeah.
Speaker 2I would imagine to a certain extent, not to what it is now, yeah, but even like back then, I mean, those universities were still those universities and they were still dominating. Yeah, you know, now they can just use the money to bring in players that they want. I think the kids should make money and I think it's great for college football. I just think the transfer portal is a problem. Okay, to where a kid can just I mean, twice a year you can transfer and leave a university Like there's no, there's just no commitment anymore.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2Right, you know what I mean. So it's, I think that they can get a wrangle on the transfer deal to where a coach isn't so terrified of losing a kid after spring ball, like, and then I mean.
Speaker 1I don't know when it is.
Speaker 2Well, I just read this second, the second transfer portal deal.
Speaker 1Yeah, I just read this the other day. I guess I just overlooked this or didn't realize this. A lot of teams don't even want to do a spring scrimmage now.
Speaker 2Yeah, because they don't want people scouting their players. Yeah, they're afraid of it. Well, like Utah State, all their stuff's closed now. Yeah, that's crazy, because a like that if you have a really good player, like in a you know, a utah or a byu who's, they got tons of money. Like we'll send a guy down and watch their spring game or their prac, like spring practices, and there's a guy we like like, hey, let's offer him some money, yeah, and there's no, there's no repercussions, for because they have these agents who are doing it, who are offering the money, like getting in touch with these kids, right to where then it can't go back to the university, which which that's. That's an issue.
Speaker 2That's big you know what I mean, like in the NFL, you can't do that. It's tampering Right. You know what I mean. So you get, you get draft picks taken away.
Speaker 3Well, I mean, they find ways around it too, but I'm just saying like yeah the college thing's crazy.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, it's just like you got, I mean yeah, but I do think that If we're paying you, then it should be a contract.
Speaker 2Which I think is what they're going to get to.
Speaker 1Let's do at least two years. You come here, but you're giving us two years.
Playing Both Sides of the Ball
Speaker 2Yeah, and we'll pay you out that money all the time.
Speaker 1Yeah, you just can't transfer because you don't like the quarterback, or you're not playing or? You don't like the coach.
Speaker 2Yeah, you just aren't getting the playing time you want yeah. We'll pay you your money, and that's it. That's what it is, yeah.
Speaker 1No, I mean, there's a couple guys where you're like you've been on like six different teams. Now, yeah, they're in year seven of college.
Speaker 2Yeah, but yeah, I mean I'm all for it Like the NCAA makes so much money that these kids should get some of that money.
Speaker 1Yeah, For sure, yeah, money from like the NCAA video game, don't they like send out like? A hundred dollar check or something. Now is it Madden? Yeah, we get, we get Madden checks. But what about for college, though? Because I think nowadays, and maybe it was past your, your time- I don't think so.
Speaker 2I never got. I don't think I got it.
Speaker 1Maybe I did I think now they have to cut everyone a check on.
Speaker 2NCAA has played in the past.
Speaker 1I don't know about in the past yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2Well, no, if they're using their name and likeness they for sure have to pay them pay them some money yeah which is great okay, but yeah, like I mean, we get paid for you know, madden do you think it's trickling down into like, especially like texas, florida, like?
Speaker 1do you see it trickling down into even like the high school level?
Speaker 2like paying kids yeah yeah, I don't see why not I mean people love winners. Yeah, you know, if you can bring kids in, that's gonna. I mean you got, you got, don't? I mean especially in texas and california and those big schools like florida like guys who went to those high schools. They're, you know, boosters there too. Like we want our high school team to be good. Yeah, we want to win state championships, so we'll donate money if this kid wants to come here and we'll give them 50 grand.
Speaker 1I know there's a handful of schools now where, yeah, it's legal to do like NIL deals at like the high school level.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm sure it is.
Speaker 1It's crazy. I'm like it's all about that I don't know about going to that level, like college for sure, yeah, but high school.
Speaker 2Yeah, 15-year-old kids High school is crazy. 15-year-old kids High school is crazy, especially like that kid might have just developed quicker. Yeah, and he's dominating for a little while, yeah but wait until everyone else hits puberty and catches up. Yeah, exactly, you know Exactly.
Speaker 1It's just crazy to me. Yeah, but that's kind of where we're at with sports.
Speaker 2Yeah, the money world's.
Speaker 1I mean, like you said, the NCAA's been profiting off these kids for years.
Speaker 2Billions of dollars, yeah, yeah. So I mean, yeah, let's share in the pot here a little bit. Get it back to them, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Especially if there's insurance and different things like that yeah.
Speaker 2I mean, a lot of these kids end up with injuries and they're putting their their bodies on the line for you guys like yeah, there should be some sort of monetary like yeah, you know I mean back when we were playing, I think we got like a 1200 stipend okay. So I mean you had to pay for rent I mean, you can housing, you know food which, like logan utah, is pretty cheap.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, comparatively. Yeah, but then, like in the summertime, like guys who like for me, like I live close to home, so you know, whatever, if I need it, yeah, I could go home, but like for a lot of guys who came out here like, and then you wouldn't get checks for two or three months, like during the summer really unless you were in summer school, okay, um, and even then your check was like half of that, but like these kids still had to pay rent, yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1So it's like they're not going home, they're still here. Yeah, exactly yeah you know.
Speaker 2So I mean it was for some kids it was a struggle, yeah I mean you had to find, like you had to get part-time jobs and you're going to school and it is what it is, but you know now they seem to be doing pretty well treating pretty well, it seems like it's.
Speaker 1Yeah, I definitely think it's changed for the better that way. But, um, I do worry about the transfer portal. Yeah, and I do think there needs to be a cap because, if not, it's going to be the same top 10 teams and not that it's not already kind of that way. Yeah, but it would be nice to see a little bit more parity across the league. I ultimately I don't know I feel like it's going to end up being like the sec in the big 10 and then everyone, everyone else yeah, which, how do you?
Speaker 2I mean?
Speaker 1do you have two?
Speaker 2different national. I mean, is it like just two tiers of leagues?
Speaker 1I don't know, yeah I don't know where it's headed, what's gonna happen, but I just feel like that's the direction they're going yeah, money changes everything.
Speaker 2So yeah, I mean, yeah, it does. I don't follow it close enough to really know, but yeah, I mean, and it's always evolving, so yeah, you know they'll figure out a system.
Speaker 1Yeah, they'll figure something out, something, something will come of it but yeah.
Speaker 2But the problem is those kids got to learn about taxes, you know right, I know they got to pay their taxes at the end of the year see, this is what all these you know high school kids in california are going to be moving to Florida and Texas. Yeah, why wouldn't you? Yeah, you got no income tax. Are you kidding me? You save 13% of your money.
NIL and the Future of Football
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean all these kids over there in California are looking at Bishop Gorman in Nevada and they're like I'm going to go over there Looks pretty good. Yeah, that's not too far away from home. I'll just go play high school ball there for three years for sure, but no, I that's kind of a disservice we do, we, we don't quite teach our high school kids about accounting and finances and all that. So yeah, but well, cool man, um, I appreciate you jumping on yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's cool, yeah, um yeah, we'll do this again. Let's do it, okay, awesome, all right, thanks everyone. Talk to you later.