Rock and Rice

EP 03: Gerry Egbalic — trad climbing, deciding who to share Filipino food with, and being on the journey to become a guide

• Tim Casasola • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Episode 3️⃣ of 🪨 and 🍚

We're talking to Gerry Egbalic today. Gerry and I met at United in Yosemite Climbing Festival! He saw a Filipino flag Lakers sticker on my truck and asked, "Are you Filipino?"

Gerry Egbalic is a fifty year old Filipino trad climber who lives out of his van. He's a kind spirit, an experienced climber, and a notable mentor to many BIPOC climbers in the West Coast. Currently, he's in Moab, Utah.

He recently fundraised his AMGA Rock Guide course, and will be taking it in Colorado this June. He's still raising funds for his travel, food, and income he'd forego by taking the Rock Guide course.

Check out his Gofundme here.

Gerry's active on Instagram: @dekarabaw

Some links to things we talked about:

 Hello, good morning, or if you're in the Philippines, magandang gabi, or maayong gabi, if you're in the Visayas region. My name is Tim Casasola. Welcome to Rock and Rice, episode three.  Today we'll be talking to Jerry Egbalik, a experienced trad climber, Filipino, and also someone who's very well supported among the BIPOC climbing community here in the West Coast.

So Gerry was born in Quezon City. He, his family had immigrated to Vegas and he had discovered climbing in red rocks and realized, holy shit, I'm surrounded by really awesome rocks. He moved to Los Angeles and that's where he had started to pick up trad climbing And now he lives out of his van.

He spends a lot of time in Moab, Utah. Moab is known for its amazing cracks notably in Indian Creek and other adjacent areas. And  I think a lot of folks, including myself are super psyched. Most recently he's enrolled in the AMGA rock guide course. He's been on, he was on the wait list for black diamonds, BIPOC scholarship and took the matter into his own hands, he was on the waitlist there for a while and, I decided to put out a go fund me to get funded to take this course.

And I was able to receive the funds to be able to take the first course. The reason this is awesome is because, a lot of folks including myself see Jerry is a mentor and a knowledgeable figure in the climbing community. Before we get into this episode, let's go over a few terms that we use in the interview.

Climbing jargon can get really confusing, so it's nice to have. A quick primer before hearing these terms. First term, trad climbing. That's short for traditional climbing, where a lead climber places protection while ascending or going up the route. This protection often takes the form of cams, nuts, et cetera.

There's a whole rabbit hole on active versus passive protection. But know that it's very different from sport climbing protection equipment, or some of the protection equipment is pre drilled into the rock, usually in the form of bolts. In trad climbing, you don't really have bolts when you go up a route.

So that takes a lot of. Or that takes a very unique skill set. You need to have good skills around placing protection in a way where if you were to take a fall or a whipper, it catches you and skills in terms of, if the route itself, or if there's a portion of the route where it's hard to place good protection or good pro, for short,  you need to climb it and not fall.

The second term is ice climbing, which Jerry has also done. Ice climbing is when you climb up frozen water. You typically use double ice axes and rigid crampons. I'm sure there are other  pieces of equipment that allow you to do it. We also use two terms here, wrapping off versus walking off. So what are, what's the difference?

To wrap is to repel. Down a cliff or some mountain by lowering yourself with a rope. So your rope is through what's called repel rings, and you're able to descend a cliff oftentimes very quickly or very efficiently by lowering yourself with your feet against the wall. That's a very specific skill set and technique and you can look up ways to do that.

Please definitely work with a guide to learn how to do that first. That's how I learned. And that's how a lot of other climbers learned. And.  To walk off is to descend a cliff by walking. So instead of repelling, you do a multi pitch to get to the very top and then the top has a good path to get down.

So for example, a route like the trough in talk eats in California, you can walk off that that, that route instead of having to repel, which is really nice. The advantages of wrapping off is that you can descend a route very quickly. Save. You're trying to. get back to the car before sunset.

Repelling is really nice. But the advantages of walking off is you don't have to repel and think through your logistics. And most importantly, you get to enjoy the sunset. Last term is benighted. That means to unexpectedly spend the night on a multi pitch or big wall climb. So that means, you might've climbed a route a little more too slowly than, you would have liked, or your planning just wasn't on point.

You're just spending an extra night on the wall and probably spooning your partner. So those are some terms we use in this episode. For every episode, we're going to do this moving forward, just so that folks who don't know these terms have an understanding of them. And without further ado,  enjoy the episode. 

What's up, Jerry? Kamusta? Mabuti, magandang gabi calling from Moab which is mountain time, ikaw, kamusta? Mabuti it's been nice here in LA. We have been Getting better weather. So I'm excited for Bishop season for sure. You've spent a lot of time in Moab quite recently.

Yeah, I do. Moab is a special place for me. I've been coming out here  every year for the past  eight or so years. And I've figured big. Because I'm here all the time, I might as well live here longer than I, I'm used to and I think I might be here for the full year. We'll see. You were first there, was it fall, if I remember correctly?

Did you plan to stay out there as long as you have so far? Yeah, absolutely. I,  one  tough thing about living in a van or dirt bagging, it's the one thing that I find challenging and maybe it's it has to do with my age, but I,  it's stress, the stressful part of it is looking for this unstableness of not having a job in between destinations.

And I'm going to stick around here for as long as I can 

and we'll see where it goes. I'm gunning for climbing destinations that's a little bit not as hot in the summer. Are you open to sharing with the listeners where that might be, or is it top secret? Everything is pretty much to be determined. Yeah.  I, my, I've considered going back to Seattle where I was last summer and also considered going to, going back to Mammoth Lake which, ooh, is where I were last, too much, two summers ago both of which are moderate temperatures in, in the summer. 

And both of which are expensive places to live.  I love the Eastern Sierras and the climbing there. And I also love Index and Squamish in the Pacific Northwest.  Yeah, and where do you usually go when you're in the Eastern Sierras  in the summer? Wherever there's, definitely not buttermilks.  We'll get into that later. 

Definitely not buttermilks.  Definitely not buttermilks. If you ever see me there, I'm more like down or just laying down the crack. I like  the incredible halt area in up in northern part of the Asian Sierra. Nice. I in the mountain area of Whitney area like sufferfest, but I for ragging, I love pine Creek. 

Gotcha. Incredible Hulk and Pine Creek. I've heard good things about both. My brother actually just got the guidebook for the Eastern Sierras one. But yeah, have yet to check it out. So that's awesome. Cuy Jarrett, so for today, I we'll talk a bit about, the conception of this podcast, obviously.

We'll talk a bit about your upbringing, being Filipino, your journey starting to climb and then getting into trad climbing and what you're up to now. How does that all sound? Sure. Yeah. That sounds great to me. You and I had met at United in Yosemite last year.

I remember actually super vividly seeing, you, you saw a Filipino flag sticker there. Filipino flag Lakers sticker on the back of my testicoma. And I saw you, I was like, is this guy Filipino? I think so. And then when you said that it confirmed my assumption and you said, Hey, I, I've always really wanted to.

Go up El Cap with an all Filipino team someday and put the flag at the top. So that was our first conversation, but from learning more about you started climbing at Stronghold in LA and maybe that's a place we can start. I know there's a lot I want to get into around even before that and where you are now.

But when did you first start climbing and where were you? I was living in Vegas. And I was a gamer I was an addicted gamer, not gambling, but video games. And I'm that gamer that would sit in front of the TV, eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, not even come out of the house. And then I just finally, I got burnt out and  after years of gaming and wanted to explore the outdoors.

Because I know that they existed not a whole lot of people knows about Red Rock when they think of Las Vegas, they only think of casinos. Red Rock is very accessible. And so I joined a meetup group to go backpacking and and hiking and we would hike a lot in Red Rock area. And I, Enjoy the scrambling part of it.

And I thought, Oh, maybe I should invest into rock climbing. Cause I, I see a lot of people on the trail with their backpack full of gear. And I went to REI and bought my first pair of climbing shoes and they were 45. And I was like, Oh shit, this is expensive.  Now I can not have to commit. I can't, this can't be just a phase where I I get bored of it. 

And yeah, after the harness came or after the shoes came to harness, but I didn't really get to climb in Vegas until I moved to LA. I joined Stronghold Climbing Gym and I met a lot of people there who has the same interest. And we all  did our weekend planning, going outdoors. And that's when it became, climbing became more consistent. 

So learning about it in Vegas, and then you moved to LA and you started at a gym at Stronghold. So I would say Vegas where I was inspired LA is where I actually started.  Getting more into it.  Gotcha. When you were in Vegas, was it, when you had started, was it in Red Rocks or were you, did you walk into a gym? 

It was in Red Rock. I remember going to a climbing gym there. I have, I was a total Gumby. I have no idea what I was doing there. I was, I spent my time mostly just sitting down and watching other people climb and this guy, this, who I've never met before. Thought it was a good idea for me to belay him. I have no idea how to use a belay device.

So he put me on a Grigri and he's this, and he decided to climb a roof that he was,  he ended up falling.  And so he got yelled at by the gym crew for trusting me and have no, I'd like. I have no idea what I was doing.  So that was my gym experience when I was when I was in Vegas. And I think at the time there was only one  climbing gym in Vegas. 

Yeah, the, what was it not desert rock sports, but I know the place they're talking about. It's very OG. It's like a spoiler. It's on Charleston. Yes. It's pretty outdated and grimy.  Oh, gee. You have to go to the other gyms that's popping out. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. When, so you mentioned to me too, I want to go into your, actually your family's immigration story.

You mentioned to me, your family's from Zimbales. So were you born in Zimbales as well? Are you first generation?  Okay. This is my background. I was born in Quezon City. Nanayko is Ilocano, Tatayko is Spanish. From Samba Les. Les where  my dad and my mother works,  we speak Tagalog per there's always a lot of there's always a lot of. 

Sambal happening, dialogue happening from cousins and relatives visiting and the same thing with the Ilocano side. So I can probably say that I actually  can hang and have a a good comprehension when it comes to communicating with in Ilocano. And I would say I'm pretty fluent, but absolutely super fluent in Tagalog.

I was born and raised there. I migrated when I was 14, 15. I don't remember anymore. And that was my upbringing in the Philippines. I was exposed outside, but very limited. We live very close to the ocean, to the beach, and I was very, my parents were very strict and so I'm just sneak out of the house and hang out with my neighborhood kids and  go to those places.

That's awesome. Sorry, so you were born in qc when qc. . Were you raised there as well or raised in Zabars?  No, it was a place where I was I think it was just the hospital there. So technically that's where I was born, but I have no recollection. Okay. So what is your recollection back in the Philippines?

You, yeah, do you, what are some of your memories from growing up there before immigrating?  I, it's mostly just like food, eating food, and hanging out with classmates. I think it was at the phase where I'm starting to  coming of age type of a moment. And so it the migration part disrupted that.

But yeah, my fond memories back home is. Just being with cousins hanging out, we have a big family, my father's side, I think have eight siblings, same thing with my mother's side, so we would visit, and they don't live exactly where we live, they're about a few hours away, and so those are my memories of going there where There's no TVs and some places, there's no electricity. 

Dang. I really enjoy it all the time, but I have much bad memory about it.  Do you remember the reason your parents immigrated? What was, why did they immigrate and what was their, where did they first immigrate to?  It's the typical greener pasture in America. Some of my parents siblings are already here.

The.  They could have migrated earlier on if they didn't have a family. But because they had they had us there's a little bit of delay. So we were meant to come out here basically to be with their siblings and.  Got it. So the family was already in flux of immigrating. And was it Vegas that you first immigrated to or was it California? No, I think we bounced around. I would say my first home is San Francisco.  Wow. I went to high school in, in, in San Francisco, Balboa High School.

And for college I went to San Jose State  and my, my dad passed away in 93, and so my mom's side of the family lives in Minnesota, and so they moved there. I stayed behind college.  They, my family moved to Minnesota 'cause that's where her side of the family is. And at some point while I was gonna San Jose State, I got burnt out and took up and joined them in Minnesota, got it,  lived there, got it for maybe about seven years, and decided to start driving to LA by way of Vegas.

And my brother and my sister was living in Vegas somehow convinced me. To check Vegas out. I, at the time I didn't have a job. I  was not in any schedule whatsoever. So I started I decided to stay in Vegas and it took me seven years before I realized this.  It's not happening here. Yeah.  Got it.

I've been in LA for, I think 11 years.  Wow. 2010 onward in Southern California. 

Gotcha. Wow. Yeah, Vegas at the time must've been so different compared to how it is now. Yeah,  there's definitely a lot of changes ever since but it's much more so during the nineties. I wasn't there during the nineties, but from the things that I've heard, it's much  different.  Gotcha.  Wow. Yeah, I did not know you were a NorCal,  that you went to school, went to high school and college in NorCal.

Sounds like you've moved around quite a lot. How long have you been living in your van for? I got my van in November of 2019 late November 2019. It was bare bone and so I,  things together, just basic stuff, and lived in it January 2020,  and I've been living in my van ever since.  Right before the pandemic. 

Right before the pandemic, yes, I got super lucky shutdown happened like a month after I got my band.  You timed it right.  Yeah, I was one of the lucky ones where I wasn't, I was isolated the whole time, but still able to move around. I was up in Angelus Crest. When, during the pandemic, cause I it was, there was a heat wave happening in LA, so I would stay there. 

Wow. That's smart. So how many years has it been since you've started climbing? How many, how long have you been climbing for?

Maybe about  12 years now, I stopped counting. Yeah,  a little over a decade.  Would you say you mostly specialize in traditional climbing?  Absolutely. I think my climbing phase were sports climbing, bouldering.  And then tribe climbing, before climbing, I was a backpacker. I was into backpacking and hiking, and I love that part of of the outdoors.

So tribe climbing, I feel like offers that tribe climbing seems to typically involves more approaches as opposed to bouldering and sports climbing. Yeah. And Trad climbing also because I love the  views. It, everything looks different when you're way up there as opposed to just on a pebble. 

Yeah.  Certainly no pebble wrestling. Do you remember your first Trad route you did? Yes. My unofficially was Cathedral Rock Tuolumne, Yosemite.  I was I was  rope gunning two of my friends.  My first piece I decided to place a nut and fumbled and they all just dropped on the ground. 

Oh no. Oh, I have this, I was just holding one end, the rest of the nut was just Rolling down the ground. That was my first unofficial one. And then my official one was whodunit in Takit. Now I was one of those cocky sports climber that thinks.  5. 9, I could definitely just I, 5. 9 I warm up on the 5.

9. I could definitely manage 5. 9 whodunit. And it's a super classic and it's very it's a lot of fun. That's the general consensus is it's one of the best routes out there. And so after climbing that, people asked me, how was it? They were very excited to find out my reaction. And I was like, Fuck that climb.

I hated it. I was terrified.  I did. I didn't enjoy it at all. Only because I didn't have the proper skills to to manage everything, to manage the climb. And I went back years later and  completely different completely different outcome. My  years after learning how to crack climb and learning more about gear and trusting gear and  exposure and stuff like that, I definitely much enjoyed it.

You learned a lot in those two years. What about trad climbing started to hook you? I don't, I assumed like after you did whodunit, it wasn't like, okay, cool. I'm going to start trad climbing, but, or was it? Maybe you tell me. I I love that trad  climbing, you place the gear whenever you feel like it. 

Whenever so you're not limited to to. Knowing that the next bolt is is not a matter of five or 10 so feet with trail climbing, if you're.  If you're, for peace of mind, you just place a gear right next to you and you're good. And also, most importantly, especially with the wide climbing I feel like I'm always on top rope. 

I place the gear above me,  climb a little bit, and then bump it up a little bit more. So the gear is always above me. So I just know the comfort of knowing that I'm always on top rope. 

That makes sense. You're going above the gear a little bit. You feel, you find a place to place. You place it, you climb up, repeat. So you're always on top rope. I do imagine that takes a lot of skill. I'm obviously not a trad. I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm a trad leader myself, but it seems like you'd have to be very comfortable chilling on a crack as you do that, which is a very different skill set than sport climbing.

It could be terrifying when you're just starting to get into the track, it could be terrifying to even move the cam at the slightest, like any movement, you're like, Oh shit, it moved. It walked in. Oh no, it's not it's not bomber anymore. And then eventually you get so used to just bumping up your pieces and you're okay with it.

Yeah. When you did Whodunit, did you own, for the first time, not the second time, did you own a single rack or any gear? Were you using friends? I don't think,  I might have just the 0. 3 to 0. 4.  And I think that was just a single rack. And I think my partner has a double rack. But  my partner's rack are Metolius and I I was, I wanted to get used to my BD champs.

I, we, I think we ended up using my, mine and his combined. 

Yeah.  Were you practicing? So after you did that first route, were you consistently practicing Trad? Were you going out with friends who also did it? Yeah. Tell me a bit about like your first how you started to consistently get into it.  Yeah. I I remember,  I think there used to be a Red Rock Rendezvous and they would advertise clinics for tribe climbing  and I wanted to sign up for it and my tribe climbing friends were like, that's a waste of money.

Let's go to Joshua Tree. And I'll teach you how to try it over there. And so a bunch of a bunch of my friends got together and hung out over there, take my hands basically just do my face gear on on top rope and  see how that feels. And then eventually I felt comfortable with placing gear, but it's the crack  climbing part that I was not, it took me a while to get. 

Yeah, I did a route in Joshua Tree called White Lightning. It's a classic 5. 7.  And I was not having it. I was climbing that thing and I was like, Fuck this 5. 7. This is the most sandbag 5. 7 I've ever been on. And so ever since then, I went back to Stronghold. And just started doing laps either on the crack rat over there and then just getting the technique, and it took me a while, maybe two months or so. It was like a light bulb all of a sudden I was. I was just jamming and I'm not, and it felt secured. And ever since then, once I learned how to crack climb at the gym, I took my first trip to Indian Creek  about eight years ago.  It's very special place for me. 

Yeah. That's awesome. Wow. It's cool that you. Trained on the cracks in stronghold. They're really good. Like  as pretty realistic as it can get at a gym, yeah. It's not about laser cut sandpaper. Sandpaper is crack that the, that walltopia offers. Although some people at stronghold might say otherwise that the crack there as a little bit grimy 

from the years of not 

Yeah, maybe that trade off is worth it though, where it's a little more realistic and grimy than walltopia, grippy, and netknife. Absolutely, yeah. When you go outdoors and you get on a 5. 9 classic and you find yourself slipping, that's only because it's a classic. Everyone gets on it and that's why it gets polished. 

So I've taken your trad workshop before actually at Stronghold. And one of the concepts you'd explained to us was knowing the size of your hand. So I have a size two, I have a fat hand. What's the size of yours? The same. Number two, it's it seems like the general size, the hand size for a lot of people.

Not everyone, but for a majority of people, number two is is the the hand size.  Is like the size two cracks your favorite or tell us about the kinds of cracks you like to climb. I definitely love number two number two size crack. But when it comes to gearing up, if I know that there's a lot of number two sizes,  I I'm confident enough that I could just karate chop my way up and not bring a lot of number two  because my hands are number two.

So I I don't have I've done this route in Zion where it says, one of the comms say, you got to bring eight number two. I thought three but crack climbing is very subjective. It's really a size dependent. And so you find your comfort. Comfortable size and you develop your you, you develop your sense of style and eventually know that you'll be okay not bringing  full rack. 

Yeah, for sure. It makes sense. It sounds like you, as you get better, you learn the kinds of cracks you're better at and exactly know how that. Now you know that, now you know your skills, therefore you know what kind of protection you need for certain kinds of scenarios. That'll make sense to me.

I can't speak from experience, but I'm just imagining.  We did some cracks together in Squamish.  We did Skywalker, I think. Yeah, I remember that. I was definitely, my lap coil was not on point. So it's, that's one of those days where I remember that's helped me improve my lap coil and just general multi pitch mechanics since then, it's a little bit more involved.  Squamish is such a great place, maybe we can talk about that. But, I want to ask,  did you, as you were getting into Trad, were there other Filipinos doing Trad? Or was it just you?  Not a whole lot, no  one that I came across with  on the crag maybe friends of a friend.

But not, definitely not a whole lot. It seems like a more Filipinos are into sports climbing or bouldering. I'm holding myself back here. I'm not talking shit about that.  You can, if you want, we can edit it out later. And and this climate in general, when it's so stronghold,  whenever I sense that there's Filipinos there, I usually I'm pretty introverted.

And so I I don't engage in any conversation, but I, if I know that there are Filipinos, I it's like a magnet. I'm just drawn to it.  And I still have a handful of Filipino climbers.  Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It seems like there is a community. I think I have to ask Al, but he had mentioned this guy named Wilson, who has a lot of big wall experience and is Filipino.

And I think he's based in the Bay Area as well.  Sina?  Let me pull up my notes. Cal Wilson? Let me see. Rock and Rice. You got me opening up my notes. Hang on. I know, right? We're not as trying to figure out who.  Rock and Rice guests. Rock and Rice.  That's how rare it is you don't I hear very many trout, Filipino trout climbers, I don't know, Wilson.

Yeah,  Wilson, okay, I have, here's my notes, Wilson, in parentheses, Al's Filipino friend, big wall climber, Bay Area based,  I'll have to ask Al, but that's, I should have taken better notes. Maybe, yeah, he could be a great connection for sure. But yeah, that's, that makes sense. I will say that I think, especially in recent years, I've met a lot of, Most Filipino climbers I've met tend to be boulderers maybe one because it is It's the, it takes the least amount of gear to get started.

It's in terms of in the gym and also outside and sport climbing does take a lot more training and I've argued tride climbing takes a lot more training to master the safety mechanics of it all and just placement and the actual style itself, at least in my experience. Maybe just because of the ease of starting climbing is why a lot of Filipinos are boulders.

But I think that's what made it really special meeting you because I was like, oh shit. Like this guy is really good at track climbing. You're such a unique place in the community.  Next guess Ivan Catalina met right into him and the red rock.  I think we both knew were Filipino. So it's just a matter of who's going to ask first.

Who's going to call it out? We I read it to him at Yeah, and then he just asked and said, Are you Filipino? And that's how it all started. And to this day, we're still in  contact. Oh, I think he was just in Moab. Or he might have just left. I'm not sure. Oh yeah. Yeah, he got ahold of me. 

He obviously he was excited to meet you. And he's been crushing. He's 27 and crushing.  Dude, that guy is young. And he's climbing hard. Climb with a with a finger injury. I also want to ask, it seems like you take a lot of care for a community and building the right friendships and partners around you.

Is that something that's very important to you? Surrounding yourself with, intentionally surrounding yourself with people that you just tend to gravitate towards? Yeah, absolutely. So what  I'm going to backtrack a little bit. So when I started climbing my.  My goal, I was very focused on learning but also I was very conscious about how other climbers see me and the crag.

Like I,  there's a culture of climbing where  if you're not doing things the way they're doing, then you're a Gumby, that you're going to die. And so there's, I'm always conscious about that. And so I'm just.  I'm always trying to learn to be a better climber,  but at the same time not feeling  like I'm in a safe space. 

And so my first experience I've gone, I've attended Kraken Classic in Bishop before. And  it was a very homogenous crowd, just like any other festivals. Climbing festivals and it didn't feel like I  fit in, it feels like I was just on the corner. And then I heard about, I got into ice climbing and I heard about All In Ice Fest signed up as a volunteer.

And it was tricky on the first year because it's There is, it was on the left leg of the pandemic. And there were, the turnout was not as big as the next two the next two  festivals, but it was big enough that I was able to build my community there. I've met so many people that I'm still to this day.

I'm still very close friends with.  And so attending those festivals it's almost like a reunion every year. The following year after that, there were more people from different area.  I remember seeing them climbing and just bringing such  It's bringing  a different kind of energy that I'm used to seeing in UAE Ice Park. 

And that kind of it was it was a very emotional moment for me to see like that kind of change. It wasn't a space where I knew that's what I want to be involved in. Anyways. I also attended from that experience, I I attended the United Yosemite their inaugural festival last year. 

Again, it's another historical historical  climbing event because never has there been any climbing fest in, in the National Park,  as far as I know. And the valley is legendary.  It was Yosemite's first diversity focused climbing festival. And that was, and it was such a success. It was. I met so many people.

I met you there. Yeah.  Yeah. I see. That's crazy. But you first  fostered your community at All Nice Festival. And did you start ice climbing before that festival or was that a festival where you learned? I started,  yeah, I started climbing a year before that, which another sports that I didn't think I would enjoy because I'm I'm not too fond of the winter sports.

And so realizing that. Having the proper layer makes everything more comfortable. It's so cold, but it's not as bad as it would have been if I didn't have the proper layers with me.  And yeah, and so I got into ice climbing and when I found out that there's a, there's going to be a, an all in ice fest, I was definitely super stoked for that. 

That's awesome. It's cool that you. We're motivated to learn how to do that too. Obviously let you, there's not many Filipino trad climbers, let alone ice climbers. I know you've actually shared with Ivan and me one person, but you're doing all the things that like, like not a lot of Filipino climbers do.

And I think that's fucking cool. When you went to all in, what about it was so enticing to you in terms of community and in terms of, yeah, just getting to, to meet other people, what about it was? Was awesome from a community standpoint.  Free Swags. Just kidding. That's it.

Yeah, that's it. That's all I care about. No, it's It's, The networking part. No It's, I started following a lot of a lot of my heroes online on Instagram and to see them there in person was amazing. And just the networking part I'm able to meet so many friends that I'm still friends with to this day that I'm climbing with.

As a matter of fact, tomorrow tomorrow morning, I'm climbing with with Matt, who I met last, this previous All In, he's here in Moab. So we're going to climb tomorrow.  Yeah it's, I still keep in touch with a lot of them whether it's all in or United and Yosemite, it's it's something that I always look forward to. 

Yeah, that's awesome. You went last year or this year, I should say, and took a lot of photos. And a lot of those photos look pretty cool, but it really evoked a sense of literally everyone there really wants to be there and it's just having a fucking awesome time. And a lot of people of color just ice climbing, like that's such a special thing that the festival is able to create. 

Absolutely. It's not your, it's not the typical scene that you. See on a, in the crag, let alone an ice park. It's like a once a year event that I, it's like my Coachella.  Yeah. I always look forward to it.  In the snow. In the snow. Coachella in the snow. I want to go back to when you were consistently going back to trad climbing and learning it and getting better at it.

Did you have a mentor or people you consistently climbed with in, in your early days as a trad climber? Not a whole lot because I didn't I didn't feel there was enough mentors out there. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. I did a lot of YouTube University. But I knew then that whatever I learned online, I have to learn it hands on.

And I just need that person to show me, how to place gear, what is safe, just the basic things. I ran into my friend in L. A., Uli.  She she started climbing. She used to live in Idyllwild. And so she's really, she's in close proximity with Akif. And so she was tribe climbing. And so she, I would ask her to take me and basically I just needed her to approve my placement and  that's all.

And so I would say she would be my mentor to this day. If not, and that is very rare that you climbers would be mentored by a woman because the population, the climbing population is very uneven. And also the way the way women are treated in climbing is all, almost always that's a side play, but she was a very significant she's a significant part of my, my my climbing,  and I always. 

That's awesome. Do you know where Uli is to this day? Yeah, she's her and her partner is up in outside of Tahoe area. She calls herself a mountain woman now because she's stuck in a cabin up there.  Cool. Shout outs to Uli. I'll make sure to link their their Instagram in the show notes if they have one.

I'm not very active, but I will definitely let her know.  For sure. Yeah. It seems especially with Trad, mentorship is a really important thing. It is. It is.  There's a lot more than just clipping bolts.  A lot more. Tell me your thoughts on that. I know it's one thing that you seem very passionate about, mentorship in trad climbing, particularly among, underrepresented or marginalized communities having that kind of access to mentorship, say as a white male is a lot, a white cis male is a lot easier than if you weren't.

And that's something you're very passionate about. Can you speak a little bit more? Absolutely. Because we're learning something new it doesn't help when you're in a space where you feel like you're being judged or you feel like you're people are going to call you gullible.  You just don't, yeah, having, learning something new in a safe space, I think is crucial.

That way you're able to concentrate more in learning as opposed to just performing. In front of other  climbers. Yeah. And it's just sports that I feel like. It's a little bit more involved, so definitely a lot more mentorship would is required. And  just sharing the level of track climbing there's so much more out there than just cragging and  pebble wrestling.

You get to see nature in a way that you wouldn't be able to whenever you're just going.  It's a very different it's a bigger day. It's a lot more logistics usually, but the payoff is enormous. It is. It's very character building type of type to sometimes it's either you'll hate your partner afterward or the opposite.

Yeah there's a lot of those moments where it. Things doesn't always pan out the way you expect it to be, cajun Point one of the very popular routes in Red Rock is Effing. A lot of newer track climbers would get, you would think that it's just a 5. 9. I know at least four people within my circle of groups that have gotten benighted up there. 

Because they couldn't find their, it was just, yeah they couldn't find their way down or for whatever reason. Yeah, so there's definitely a lot more things than just going up and laying down your crash pad.  Yeah. And just for the listeners who don't know epinephrine, the descent is wrapping off? 

It's a walk off. And that's where that's where most of the Yeah. The issue comes out the walking off because once, once you're in the dark, everything changes. You have no sense of orientation. You have the only thing that you see is the lights on the strip, like way out there in the horizon.

And that's your sense of reference, but you don't know you're next to the clip. You don't know which, where's the next Karen. I think it, the first time I did it I started at maybe four in the morning and got back to the car at 10 PM. And  again, it's it's a classic route. And if you asked me at that day, when I got back to the car by what I thought of it, I would have said it's shitty, it's not worth it.

But  I did it again and I climbed it with another Filipino tribe climber, by the way, that I mentored Asher. We did it in maybe, oh, yeah. Maybe.  Wow. Yeah, definitely different.  Which, by the way, he's one, one of the parties that got Ben United up there,  asked him about spooning 

Yeah,  . You said ask him about spooning. Yeah, because this is, there will be a lot of spooning involved once you're up there. 'cause it gets really cold.  . Gotcha, gotcha. I'm just looking up. So Epinephrine red rocks it, you said it's a five nine. Oh it has 13 pitches. So you do all 13 to get to the top of the descend down,  right?

Yeah, it's it's very common that a lot of people get stuck up there, and so much so that the Las Vegas Search and Rescue, they place a sign at the trailhead saying that if you're climbing up in that ridge,  that there's a QR code that you could scan at the parking lot to download the trail map, waypoints, and what have you.

And also, it says that, If you get stuck up there, don't call for rescue. There's a cash box with all the blankets and necessary things for you to just stay up there for the night and then hit the trail the next morning. Oh yeah.  It's that spicy. That's crazy. Yeah, I haven't done it before. The only multi pitch I've done in Red Rocks is levitation, which is a mixed, mostly sport climbing.

Yeah. Multipitch. And I did that with Ivan. Per your recommendation, we were looking for something nice on something hotter on a colder day. And that was like a perfect. But I want to talk about Indian Creek. So you've spent a lot of time there. What about that place makes it so special to you? 

It's a 45 minutes away, 45 to an hour drive away from Moab. It's so special.  It's isolated. You're all, the only thing that you see out there are cows and maybe some ranch here and there, but for the most part it's pretty isolated. There's no phone signal over there, at least not yet. And  just looking at those rock formation,  it's almost so I'm not very religious at all.

I was a bit pious Catholic but I'm not, I don't practice it. But going there, it almost feels like going to a temple. It's I'm having that stupid John Muir thing of the Christ are calling and I must climb it. 

That's funny. I'm not, I'm just to be just to be clear, I'm not a big fan of John Muir, by the way, it's just. Yeah he had done some things from what I understand. He was a bit oppressive as a person. What about Indian Creek makes it so special to you? And maybe tell us when was the first time you've been there? 

I think I was maybe 2014 or 2015. It was immediately after I learned how to crack lime. I went there on, in April  with a group. It was my first time there. And just got on all the classic routes, like super crack incredible hand crack just getting acquainted with what this desert sandstone, red sandstone feels like because I'm used to when I.

Learn how to crack live, I would go to Joshua tree and that's the type of texture that I'm used to, the granite the harsh abrasive granite. And then the sandstone crack is much more,  it's finer, but still abrasive. It's like walltopia  sandstone, type of texture.  When you first went there, did you really start to like it?

What got you to wanna go there the next year and then eventually the following oh, this, yeah, this place is what's unique about place. There's  the it's the route there, it's endless. There's so many things to, and this, and to this day, I have not climbed a lot of the areas out there.

It's just so many more things to, to climb. And that's why I keep going back there because. The climbing, even though I've done it before, I don't mind doing it again. If that's how great they are usually. And for some people also they find that great community there. You could just go to the the park in the main parking lot this Don Lee parking lot or the other one and just meet people.

And for a lot of people, that's how they meet their partners and their tribe over there.  Gotcha. What's it like to be Filipino there? I have yet to see anyone pack rice for lunch,  because I do. I would I would pack rice with, say, my leftover adobo or something. The minute I see that, I would be in heaven.

It would be a direct connection. Yeah, I have, I honestly have, I haven't seen any and I'm usually shy and instigating any conversation, but if I see one, I would definitely come out of my shell and introduce myself.  Yeah, that's have you gotten any have you introduced Filipino food to any of your climbing partners or friends?

Very rare. I, yeah I'm very attached to food especially Filipino food. Cause I,  it's a big part of my identity and I feel like I'm still going to, through the trauma of migrating to the U S and having  my food or my type of food made fun of whether people think it smells or it just doesn't look pleasant.

I don't want to have to go through that reaction. And so I'm very picky of who I share my food with. And it's tough because as Filipino, we always share everything. We, when you let people in your house, you ask them, have you eaten yet? You'd be,  it's part of our culture to be hospitable.

And so  I don't want to have bad reactions when I offer my, and so it's very rare.  This is it. Do you have a go to a guy, and when you decide to choose someone that is, worthy of eating Filipino food with you, what's the dish you enjoy the most? Yeah I  bust out the tinola and the semigan, nothing Nothing too extreme. Like I'm not going to have them eat laing. Oh, I love laing. Or diluguan aka chocolate meat. I definitely miss those foods. I don't make them because I don't know how to make them. And I don't have access to ingredients and stuff. So yeah I make do of what I could get in the regular market out here.

To make Sinigang and Tinola.  Matter of fact, today at the local market, I found out that I could ask for pork bellies cause there's nowhere here. That's my choice of meat when making Sinigang. Other than that, it's the ground.  But yeah, I'm really happy that I have access to pork bellies, yeah, it must be hard in Utah trying to find pork bellies.  I remember when we were, when Ivan and I were trying to make plans to go out to see you in Indian or Moab, we were, I had, you had asked me to get barley tea because I was living in LA and it's so easy to get barley tea, sake sound. And it's also, you're a big fan of barley tea, so am I.

And I had three boxes ready to go. I actually should have dropped it off of Ivan, but we didn't end up seeing you cause there was rain and yeah, there was rain and I was making like a weekend trip. It's definitely a really good, I hope you have your supply.

I'm rationing my barley tea right now and it's good that I was drinking a lot more of it during when it was much older a little bit less now. But I'm rationing my barley tea, although I do know a few people coming out here from California, so I'm giving them my list of stuff to get  in California to smuggle over here.

That's a nice one. Ano ang paborito mong pagkain? Favorite food, I do my usual tinola, sinigan, and when I have access to talong, the Asian talong, that I make tortang talong, I fucking love tortang talong, how easy it is. But the kind of vegetables, the kind of talong that they have here is the big fat one, like the Italian type of talong, I think.

And so it's not exactly the same. You can't really roast that all the way.  All the way through because it's so fat. Yeah, I like talking to Lola.  I would say those would be like the most common ones that I make all the time.  And then I would make something like what my Lola would say, magic, magic.

Just whatever you could find in your fridge.  Magic, magic. That's good. And you're in your van, you make all of this in your van. In my van. Yes. Yes. I made. I made sure that I have all, that I have a fridge and a freezer, and my sink is hella big because I, I've, so many valet people use the tiny ass sink, I was like, no, my caldera is not gonna fit in there when I wash my dishes my greasy ass plate will not fit in there when I cook, when I wash my dishes. 

I'm sorry, no, I don't have a stove. I have a  stove top.  A stove top, but not a stove.  Gotcha. Indian Creek. What is one memorable route from Indian Creek? I would say Anunnaki. Anunnaki is the one that I would always revisit.  And  to this day, I still couldn't get the very last move. And I'm going to say  because of height. 

I know not a lot of people are an excuse, height is not an excuse, but I've seen people,  taller people that doesn't, that they don't have to do that move because they could reach and fit the anchors  so they could skip that. So they,  I'm jealous, but yeah, Anunnaki. South Filipino 

That's a good one. 

Is it spelled that way too? I know Nki. No, it's I think. But Aki is the Filipino variant variation. . What is the style of that rap? Tell us a bit about the climbing style of this. This crap is a little bit sporty. It's definitely,  there would be holds where  you're, it's mostly, it's not jamming, but more hanging on your fingers. 

It starts with a number three  and narrows down to the very top, narrows down to a 0. 4, 0. 5, depending on where you place. And it's steep. It's overhanging. And so there's that element of climbing jamming on crack, leaning backward. You find a few rests here and there.  And the line is just beautiful. 

I, I, the one, it's the one route that I always recommend,  especially sports climbers, because because it's so sporty that they may appreciate it.  Ah, that's good to know. Did you do it on first go? No, I said, I'm not sent it. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Is it's, but I'm also not the, yeah, I'm also not the the type of climber where I have the sand and I don't get frustrated if I don't.

I, as a matter of fact, I go there  a season, get on it and not do it again while I'm there. I, yeah, I'm not much into projecting.  Yeah. I'm not much into having goals right now. I feel like I had maybe surpassed that. I don't climb with egos anymore. I don't climb with numbers. I climb whatever five fun I could climb.

I do the climb that I've done before because it's fun. I stopped taking mountain project routes.  Yeah. I'm all, I'm just I'm in a stage now where I don't care about what I'm climbing. I just want to climb. And also I don't look at  the grading. It's not the first thing I look when I look at the mountain project or the guidebook.

I look at the route itself and visualize how I'm going to do it and what gear I'm going to bring with me without resorting to the guidebook beta gear beta. That's awesome. So you actually look at the route itself and decide for yourself what gear you need.  For the most part, it's pretty accurate, but there will be some routes where, shit, I should have brought a number six.

And yeah, I when I I've built my confidence enough that I know, even though I don't have the right gear, I'm still able to do it. Like I,  I got on  a Chrysler crack and red rock with just a number six. And the number six part is very early on  and it get progressively wider and wider. But that's all I had.

But I knew I was confident that I,  my, I could shove my body in the crack that I'll be okay. I'm not going to get spit out.  But anyways, I've developed that, that I guess you could say I developed that skills of where I could just eyeball and. And know know that I'm able to do it. 

Gotcha. Yeah. That must've taken a lot of experience and confidence to be able to get to a point where you can look at something and instinctively know what you need.  Yes. And I'm one that, that has to learn very slowly. I'm not one that gets it right away. Like I have to keep doing it over and over to feel confident and secure. 

Do you, you were saying earlier that I was hearing you say that You are now not really someone who climbs to tick things off. You do things, you'll repeat things that are fun for you. I imagine you spend a lot of time taking people, mentoring people on routes you've done before. It's not about pushing numbers.

Was that something recent? In your climbing experience that, that now is more present for you. And if so, yeah, what shifted that? I think when I realized that I'm not getting any younger and my physical abilities is very limited. I have given up on  pushing. And also when I learned trap, I I learned the old school way that the number one rule rule of trap climbing is never fall.

You just don't. Yeah. So I don't fall not even on sports. I not because I'm strong.  But because I have a fear of falling, and so I would rather just do a take or and rest and not even pull the move or attempt to pull the move and try hard on any any crux, I would just ask for a take.  Yeah, no shame in asking for a take.

I remember you telling me that rule too, and it's nice to know that there are climbers out there that Are comfortable just with not taking falls and being prioritizing safety. Absolutely.  Maybe a question that's been lingering in my mind is, do you think there's trad potential in the Philippines? 

And no, it's totally fine, but I want to hear your opinion. I haven't been back in the Philippines long enough.  To  actually know the climbing community there. And from what I know online, there's really, it's mostly limestone climbing over there. And it's very rare that you find any crack climbing and limestone And so I, yeah, I don't  think  there would be just pure tribe climbing in the Philippines unless otherwise somebody tells me and maybe that's my, my motivation to  go back home  and get to climbing there. 

My experience of it is there's not a lot. There's some stuff that certain people know, but it's not widely advertised or widely publicized. Maybe for safety reasons and also for. Not a lot of people do have the gear the necessary to do it safely and the techniques and skills. But who knows?

Maybe there is I'll let people tell us if there are, and that could be an interesting topic.  Yeah, I think Exposure has a lot to do with it. If you're not, if you've, if you're only exposed to sports climbing, then, so yeah, when you're only exposed to sports climbing, you're only focused on finding sports route.

But if you've been exposed to trail climbing, then maybe there's a chance that  you're also scoping around for possible tread route.  Yeah. It's hard to know what you're looking for if you haven't done it.  If you're scoping out, say, a crack that hasn't been established, what are you looking for?

It's just basically solid crack. It's pretty simple. It's not as it's not as good drive as some of the sports route. It's pretty straightforward. Crack, you know that you could plug natural gear  and, 

Climb it cleanly. So just basically a crack in something that you can climb clean and place gear in.  Yeah. It's hard to know if that's in the Philippines, but, you never know. We'll see. Maybe someone might  find something that could be interesting. Or maybe someone's out there gatekeeping.

Let me know. Yeah, who knows? I know, you gotta tell us. Would you ever be interested in trying out the sport routes out there?  If you asked me this eight years ago, I would say yes, right now. I'd be happy to belay. Let's just leave it at that. I give the best belay job. Soft patches are  awesome.

I guess let's go, let's maybe move towards maybe mentorship. And then I have some closing questions for you. So you've obviously been  very interested in guiding and guiding, specifically BIPOC folks, I know it's been a journey, like you've been pretty public about how, you've been on the waitlist for AMGA's BIPOC scholarship for some time and  really never fell through and so you took matters into your own hands and at least from me witnessing it and also spreading the news about it, it was, it seemed like a lot of people just Yeah, let's put let's help Jerry get this archive course funded.

Tell us about that. What was that whole Experience like that journey like it must have been so wild to go through it  so when I started attending affinity events like all the night's fast and  United New Semity  I noticed that  clinics We're instructed by a friend that had that also went through the  SPI the guest certification. 

And I feel like I'm, I could do the same. I've been climbing for so long that I have, Knowledge and skill that I would love to share within the community. But because I don't have that certification, that's what's been preventing me from doing it. This specific course that I'm taking that I'm planning on taking it's called AMDA Rock Course, Rock Guide Course.

It's three steps. It the first one is Rock Guide Course.  And then, which is 4,  Advanced Rock Guide course, another 4, 500. And then the assessment  certification, 3, 500. So roughly everything all together, it's almost like 12, 000. It's not cheap. For someone like me, who is very, she is not  financially stable.

It would. Be  a struggle, almost impossible to get certified. And that's why I'm going to segue through my GoFundMe. I started a GoFundMe page. If you search my name, Jerry Igbalik or Rock Guide Course, I'll probably the first person to come up on the search queue. I with the help of my friend, Larry, the the We put it out there and it's actually doing pretty good.

There's a little bit of stale right now. I have not been posting about it, but I haven't quite made my, my,  my goal yet, but I am getting there. So do check it out. And I also, since we're talking about that, I want to thank you. I know you donated. Salamat, salamat. to those who donated, I know there's people there, a lot of my fans donated and people that I have no idea who they are.

very much. It's the power of the internet. It's doing its job. Yeah I'm very grateful. Yeah, so my main goal for the for this is to be able to mentor and guide people. Folks that are, that prefer to be guided and mentored by people of color or queer, gender, genderqueer I would love to do that and have mentored people We'll do the same thing and spread it out and share the knowledge of that. 

That's awesome.  It's such a great resource to have someone who sees you, like it's, it, you help the person feel seen and understood.  Are someone that demonstrates to someone who wants to learn how to track line, for example see that it, like for any Filipino who wants to get better at track climbing and is probably doing something else just to see someone else successful at it and looking for a guide.

It's such a powerful thing to know that someone exists. So it's really cool that you really stayed diligent towards wanting to become a guide. I remember when. This first, when you first put out your GoFundMe, you immediately met your first goal and just kept it going. And that's awesome. That's just like the power, like you said, of the internet and the power of community. 

Absolutely. And I have I'm very grateful for my community for helping me out. And whether it's donating and or spreading. The way it, it makes so much it makes a lot of difference.  Will you be taking the first course for the rock guide course? Or are you going to be waiting until, you meet your goal before purchasing that? 

Yeah. So I officially made my my, the rock course guide, rock guide course. I'll be in Boulder in  mid June. It's a week long course. I had already signed up for that.  And I do have the fund and after that, it's another, it's advanced rock course. And I think I just need a little bit before I could have that financially covered. 

That's awesome. Congratulations, Jerry. That's so awesome to see. I'll put, I'll make sure to put the rock guide course fund, go fund me in the show notes. So that'll go out when the episode is out. Yeah, for sure. It's, you are way more than halfway past your goal and it's definitely possible for sure to fully fund it.

Let's we'll do what we can to help make it happen. Awesome. I guess let's talk a little bit about maybe what you're looking forward to. What else are you focused on next? When it comes to climbing, what are you looking forward to? I don't really have much goals anymore.

I just want to keep climbing.  I I had limited myself to doing two Alpine climb per year. Yeah, that's my quota. Alpine climbs per year. I think that's about how much my body could handle. But definitely a lot more crack climbing. And absolutely a lot more mentoring and guiding. I I'm starting to see my value of course, from years doubting myself but I'm starting to see my values from the reactions and testimonials of friends and peers.

As a matter of fact, I I took a I took a friend yesterday climbing because they wanted to. To get better with their gear placement anchor building.  And before yesterday, we had never met in person, they heard of me through another friend online and that they feel that I I'll be the the person to be around them, teaching them because they don't just want to go with anyone that  they don't feel safe. 

And so that that, that was a great day yesterday. And I'm very honored that I I, that they chose me to show them and mentor them and other friends as well. That's recommending me through the person to take them outdoors and get them started with trap climbing. 

It's a great feeling.  People are seeking out you as a guide and that's just signal to keep it going and get that Yeah, it definitely feels very rewarding and validating because I go through a lot of self doubt and not thinking that I'm good enough to  share my knowledge.  What would it take for  getting more Filipinos who are interested in trad more proficient?

What do you think it would take in climbing culture? Is it more guides like you and maybe Ivan eventually in the future?  Definitely more representation.  Yeah, definitely more representation because the representation matters. When  you keep convinced one  Filipino to go or try climbing the deal and have a positive experience, that will, that's something that they will share with their other Filipino friends.

And knowing that they are capable and it's. It's a great sports discipline of climbing to get into.  Yeah, more representation and it takes people like you and Ivan to just be visible. And it just shows others who are interested that, Oh shit they're out there and if they can do it, I can do it too.

Mad props to Ivan. To you and Ivan for sure. How would you say climbing has changed you as a person?  Oh man, I one thing I love about climbing is the problem solving.  And I think it had helped me focus on. What  is in front of me thread climbing, there's a lot of shenanigans. I will tell you that now.

And so being able to pull yourself out of that situation, I think it's the, it's a skill that I would not have developed if I was not into just being efficient. There's so many things that I take out of climbing that I apply to my daily life, like being efficient, whether it's at work, problem solving teamwork preparing ahead and, or preparing for things that you're not prepared for. Yeah those little things they're very valuable to me because I embrace them and I definitely apply them in my daily life.  Feeling prepared. That's a, especially as a track climber, that's something that I think really translates to life, especially in events that are, quite risky or more logistically oriented. 

What do you look for in a trad partner? Someone that doesn't have a big ego.  Because then I would be under pressure to climb something hard, and I don't really want to climb anything too hard. Also someone that  is willing to learn. Someone that is very efficient, especially on multi pitches. Efficiency for me, I take pride in not epic ing.

I try not to epic as much as I can. And being efficient is key to me. Having proper skills with whether it's delaying or the repelling point. I value I value that a lot.  Yeah, that's awesome. Just really having the skills. I also want to share a quick story. With you. So we were in Squamish not Squamish, we were in Yosemite at La United in Yosemite with our friend Cass.

I think this was the first time the three of us had climbed together and me and Cass had asked you if you could take us up Commitment, which is I forget what the grade of it is. 5. 7 or 5. 8? Three pitches or something like that. And I think we were 15, please! I think we were going  the wrong way at first.

It could have been a different route and you had suggested we bail and just find a different route and we did it. And then we found something else. I don't remember if it was definitely not Munginella somewhere in the five open books region, but we did something and it was fun. I think it was commitment that we actually did, but it was cool to like, for me, at least as a newer multi pitch climber to just normalize the idea of bailing of Oh, we're off route.

We don't need to be heroes. Let's just go down and try something else. That's a little bit. More established and we have more knowledge and information on  it. I just want to share that because it demonstrates how like good judgment on your part to Hey, we're all climbing. It's the first time we're climbing together.

We don't really need a hero of all this. We can just go down and find something else and have fun.  Wanted to share that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, definitely. Because climbing culture is a big part of it's having such big ego that sometimes people push themselves and not know their limit and that's how you end up. 

For sure. Have you ever been?  I have not gotten rescued, although I was involved in an accident last year that I'm not ready to share yet. But other than that, I have, I take care of myself. Yeah, I have not gotten rescued  at all, or gotten benighted for that matter. Close but not yeah, I still need it. 

Being benighted means you make it to the top and or you basically, you end up spending the night  there, whether it's a part of the route or on top.  Got it. What advice would you offer? Maybe the next generation of Filipino or Filipino American climbers whoever you want to speak to, what advice would you offer them? 

Oh, bring really good snacks.  Bring those boy balongs with you cause they will power you up. I think being open to being open to sharing your knowledge with other people don't get cheap just because you learn a new skill.  Doesn't mean you keep it to yourself. Definitely share that love, share your experience.

And don't get intimidated by older climbers, that thinks their way is the only way to do things. Be open to learning things, not just one way. There's a lot of different ways to do things. For example, the way you, Tie your figure eight knot. There's, some people do a stretch and do the eight, some people make the All kinds of different ways, but you still end up doing the figure eight.

Strangle the alien, shoot the alien. Oh, exactly. Yeah.  Poke the, poke something, the rabbit in the eyes or some shit like that.  Yeah, so there's a lot of different ways of doing things and it's not necessarily mean that one one is the right way. One is more reckless than the other.  Yeah, for sure. Be open to different ways of doing things and, you'll find your way of doing things through learning from others.

And learning from others who are more experienced was one of your points too.  Yeah, be open to watching other people do do their systems whether it's anchor systems, repel systems. Cause I, I'm still learning and there's still a lot of things that I'm learning. Is there any initiatives or events or fundraisers you want to promote?

Obviously we'll share the GoFundMe that's funding your AMGA rock course. Anything else you want to be plugging as we close this out? Climbing for Change. The Climbing for Change is started by Kyle Lightner,  founded by Kyle Lightner. And it's, they've been doing. Great things within the community providing financial assistance.

As a matter of fact, I want to thank Climate4Change for providing my my tuition for my wilderness first responder. That thing cost like 900.  Yeah and that's required that's another thing expense that you have to to pay for, to be a rock guide. You gotta have an active Wolfer certification. 

So yeah any climbers out there, whether you're Filipino or not, support Climbing for Change, Brown Girls Climb All In. I've been in Yosemite, but they're well supported by AAC. So  I say Climbing for Change.  We'll make sure to put them in the show notes. They also have a really great, I think Kai also has a good episode on the Nugget podcast.

And he talks a little bit about Climbing for Change. I have, yeah, I I haven't listened to it yet. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. That's awesome that they funded your first wilderness responder course. That's that, that I didn't know. So that's great. That's great to hear. Is there anything else you would like to mention before we close? 

I'm always looking for a climbing partner. If you're in the area, I'm currently in Moab. If you've never been here before or you've been here before and want to climb with me, I would love to climb with you regardless of your skills. I am willing to share what I know of crack climbing and track climbing.

Yeah, partner up with me, please.  Awesome. Yeah, I can attest Jerry's a really great partner. I've learned some of my own systems through multi pitching Skywalker and Squamish with with him and, he's super efficient and makes the right call and, as he said earlier, as long as you don't have a big ego, you guys will have a really great time.

Rock climbing together. Jerry, maraming salamat. It was really great chatting with you. We'll be publishing this in a couple of weeks and yeah, just thanks for being the third guest on rock and rice. Oh, thank you. I'm honored. Yeah. Salamat. I'm really honored that I'm part of this.

It's I'm also thankful that you're doing this because I don't think there's any other Filipino climbing podcast. So yeah, kudos for starting this and having me here. I can't wait to hear everyone else, the rest of your guests. I I have it, I think I have it on my calendar every other Tuesday. 

I'm going to show you how to do it. You