EP 08: Christine Joy — being a multi-disciplinary climber, taking her mom climbing, and kapwa

Christine Joy is a boulderer, sport climber, budding trad climber, and soon-to-be SPI course certified climber based in Las Vegas. She has roots in the Philippines in Illocos Norte and Isabella, and has climbed in Cantabaco (shoutouts to Bal and Patrick!).

When I first came across Christine's Instagram — we found out of each other through the algorithm — my first thought was. Yo! We are literally so similar. She achieved a goal in 2022 to send her first outdoor V8 and 5.12a; I achieved the same exact goal in 2023. But as I got to know Christine, I realized that she's much more than just a strong climber. She's a caring friend, a super thoughtful and conscientious community shaper, and a proud Pilipina. 

This is a two part interview! Two-in-one, baby. Almost three-in-one cape. 

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Next episode is with Jo R Ala!

Chapters

• 0:14 About Christine Joy
• 1:34 Become a Patron! 60% of your donation will go to gear for Philippines climbing
• 5:03 Why Christine had to go to the ER after projecting Minstrel in the Gallery (5.12b/c/7b+)
• 11:45 Are there a lot of Filipinos in Chicago?
• 14:37 Her family's US immigration story
• 16:12 I took my mom out rock climbing in Vegas
• 23:18 How Christine sent her first V8 and 5.12a in 2022
• 32:34 Does the Philippines use the Yosemite Decimal System or the French grading system?
• 34:24 "I got better at overhang sport climbing from moonboarding"
• 47:46 Moving to Vegas for climbing!
• 52:14 A lot of Filipinos in Vegas speak Ilocano / Maraming Pilipino sa Vegas ay taga Hawaii
• 53:04 Taga Isabella si Nanay (Mom's from Isabella, Luzon, Philippines)
• 55:41 She cut feet on Once Upon a Time, the scariest V1 ever
• 1:03:52 Christine hosted a Brown Girls Climb meetup at Flash Foxy in Bishop
• 1:07:40 We exchange broken ankle stories ☠️
• 1:18:05 Why Christine wanted to do a second interview! Shoutouts to Ivan and Gerry
• 1:19:19 Christine's trip to the Red River Gorge (in May), Check Your Grip 5.12a/7a+
• 1:31:09 Trying hard moves on Swedish Fish 5.12a/7a+
• 1:45:01 How being Filipino has shaped Christine as a climber
• 1:45:29 "I'm constantly thinking of how to be hospitable"
• 1:48:40 Being involved with her Pilipino org in college
• 1:51:05 Climbing is dangerous. Affinity groups make it safer.
• 1:55:05 When Filipinos 🇵🇭 see each other at the crag
• 1:57:00 Being bullied made acceptance important to Christine
• 2:01:18 "Lots of women-only spaces tend to be majority white"
• 2:06:32 🍉 Free Palestine. Being Filipino means being in solidarity with other marginalized communities.

Transcript

 Hello, kamusta?  Welcome to Rock and Rice, Episode 8. I'm your host, Tim Casasola. And today, we're talking to Christine Joy. Christine is a climber based out in Las Vegas. She's from Chicago and her name is Christine. Parents are from the Philippines. She'll share more about where her parents are from in the Philippines, why she's inspired to climb hard, both as a boulder and a sport climber, a little bit about her experience climbing in Gangtabaco.

Shout outs to Bal and Patrick and what, why community is so important to her. And also.  What about being Filipino impacts her the most as both a climber and sort of community shaper, community contributor, community leader,  all that good stuff. Christine's really thoughtful as a person. She wanted to do two interviews.

Initially we did an interview in March and she wanted to give a more thorough and reflective answer to the question that I had asked her at the end, which is how has being Filipino shaped you, her as a climber? So you're going to hear two interviews. One from last March and the other from May, you'll get to enjoy two interviews, which hopefully is a bit of a special treat.

Lastly, I have a really exciting announcement to make. Rock and rice. is starting a Patreon at patreon. com slash rocknrice. So here's the thing. It's really freaking hard to get climbing gear if you're based in the Philippines. So if you're a Filipino American or just an American or a European, you can easily walk into an REI or you can easily walk into Arcteryx or you can easily walk into your climbing gear. 

and just grab a new rope, some draws, shoes, harnesses, et cetera. It's really freaking easy to get gear in the Philippines. It's not as easy. You need to have money. You'd have a lot of it. And you know what I've noticed from. My last trip in the Philippines is that  it's really freaking hard to get gear and it takes a long time to get it shipped internationally and it costs way, way more, like the Philippine peso is not as strong as the dollar.

Here's what I want this Patreon to do. If you donate anything between a dollar. To 10 to 25 a month, you'll be able to use 60 percent of your profits to contribute to gear distribution back to the Philippines. So 60 percent of Patreon revenue is going to go into gear distribution in the form of harnesses, chalk chalk bags, carabiners, whatever the specifically Iloilo climate community, Cebu rock climbing community and Cagayan, the Oro climate community need in the upcoming year.

We're going to use those funds. To Balikbayan gear out to them in December,  I'm going to post on the Instagram and the Patreon of the money that's been raised through the Patreon, as well as the gear that is going out to the climbing communities in the Philippines. And then 40 percent of your Patreon support will go towards going back to the show.

So the show right now, it took about a little over a grand to start up the show in the form of equipment and graphic design, and I don't want the show to be in that negative. I want it to actually be a business where it's made more revenue than it cost. So 40 percent's gonna go back to the grand that I used to start up the show.

If eventually in the future we make more than a grand, then we can consider more things in terms of shirts or merch or gear, or even using more of that to go towards gear distribution. So you can, if you wanna become a Patreon, go to patreon.com/rock and rice. Spread the word about it, spread this episode, the more Filipinos who hear about this, the better.

Also, I'll mention that if you're based in the Philippines, which a lot of you listeners are, you can also be a Patreon. I know it's not a platform that many Filipino sort of creators make, but I know that it's possible to also be a Patreon. A patron, if you're based in the Philippines. I know there's even ways you can link your Gcash to Patreon.

Know that it's also an option for you. That all being said, let's get into the episode with Christine. Christine starts the episode off talking about How she had to go to the ER after projecting her project, Minstrel in the Gallery, which is a 512 BC or 7B LUS. Let's get into it. 

Yeah, I tried it last year once and then never got on it again cause it was getting really hot. And then I tried it again earlier in the season and could do all of the moves. And it's funny, the second, my second sesh on it, I went to the ER that night. Whoa. Because I  couldn't breathe, I was,  yeah, I sound insane, but I had a friend in town, as I always do, there's always people in Vegas, but I had a friend in town who I really wanted to sport climb with.

I hadn't seen we've never climbed together, and we've always wanted to climb together, and she was in town, and We want to go to the gallery and so I got on that climb because I was like, I think I want to project that this the season and I was dealing with an upper respiratory infection. Like I had gone to urgent care the week before.

Oh my god, because first of all, so I like got a new cat at the end of December And so I had some allergies from that  and then I'm pretty sensitive to smoke. So New Year's Eve I was on like a rooftop And then Fremont so like really close to hotels that do the fireworks and everything and then the AQI that night was like 158 like really bad.

Wow  and Usually when i'm around that much smoke, I react pretty badly if i'm around cigarette smoke for like even 20 minutes, i'll have a cough for two weeks Like that's normal for me But then after two weeks of having like like a sore throat It got really bad one day and I'm I was coughing all day like to the point where I thought I was gonna Vom so I went to urgent care I took the day off work went to urgent care and then they prescribed me like a steroid for five days and then I'm sorry, this is so off topic  But it's just so silly.

I'm like the things I do to climb. And then I got off, after the prescription ended, like a couple days later, I started like having a hard time breathing again and coughing. And, so I think that was like a Friday, and then I went to go climb on a Sunday. And I was like, it's fine, I'll bring my inhaler I'll go bolt to bolt it's fine.

And then, I ended up I could climb, but I had to go bolt to bolt, and I catch my breath. But it felt cool to be able to still climb hard, even though I clearly wasn't in the best respiratory shape. And then I could do all the moves. I actually did all of the moves basically first try.

I just had to take breaks because obviously I couldn't breathe.  And then hiking out was, like, hard. But that night the dryer in my house broke, and so I was, like, running up and down the stairs to hang all of my clothes. And I think that's like what put me over the edge. And then I like tried going to bed I couldn't breathe and they went to the ER that night.

Oh my gosh So yeah that night to clarify was that this year or last year? You said it was your second session  That was this year. That was I think end of january like 19th or something around then Whatever that sunday was that weekend. Oh my gosh yeah, and I've gone to the ER on a climbing trip before because of not being able to breathe.

Two years ago in Bishop the Airbnb we were staying in had a wood burning stove, and my friends had burned wood not thinking it would be a big deal because we just wanted to heat the house, and they ended up burning wood that I was allergic to. Oh my gosh. So I got smoked out, so I have a lot of like anxiety around that.

And so when I started feeling like the same thing, I was just like, I just need to go to the hospital. But the hospital is like a mile from my house and I actually work there part time. So I got a discount. Yeah.  I feel like I sound crazy. No, not at all. That's it sounds yeah, I'm hearing you say that the smoke is Like smoke specifically gets you feeling a certain way and also triggers some anxiety or I don't know I think it's more so just like I woke up like in Bishop two years ago I woke up at 1 30 in the morning and could not breathe like I felt like I was suffocating Like I couldn't hold any air in at all.

And so and I started having a panic attack that night so I just had to go to the ER right away I think it was just like, feeling oh, it might get that bad again, so I just Pre empted that? Yeah, I was just like, I just need to go. Did you have I used my inhaler too many times that day already, so I was just like, I just need to go figure out what's going on, maybe get a nebulizer treatment or something.

Do you before Bishop, did you have panic attacks before, or was that your first one? No yeah, no, I think that one was just like, expected I think when you can't breathe, I feel like you're suffocating, it's normal to have a panic attack, but yeah, no. I see. Yeah, they're really scary, for sure.

I haven't experienced it in that context, but it's such a, you just feel like so powerless going through it. Yeah, I think my friends were also just didn't you climb today? They saw that I went to the ER, and they're like, Didn't you go climb? Are you okay? What's going on? 

I'm just like, eh, just been trying to like, still live my life. . I don't know. Man I have so many questions about, maybe how you think climbing has helped your mental health. Certainly, we'll get into that in this interview. Right now, I feel like I strayed a little bit off, because your original question, now that I'm thinking about it, is like, what's your project?

But yeah, it was just funny, I'm just  thinking back to the first day I actually got on it this season. What's that day?  But, all my sessions after that haven't been like that, obviously. The respiratory, I had an upper respiratory infection that lasted three weeks, and since then I've been okay.

At this point in the interview, we talk about her being from Chicago. This is a naive question. Are there a lot of Filipinos in Chicago? My guess is yes, but tell us about your experience. Yes, I feel like there is, or at least like where I grew up is. I'm from like Morton Grove, Skokie area, which is like a north, northwest, north suburb of Chicago, like people are always like, are you from Chicago?

Are you from like Schaumburg? And I'm like, look, I'm from Skokie, Morton Grove. And they're like, okay, that's fine. Because we're literally Like I'm 20 minutes from this from downtown. Got it. Like I'm right on the highway I spend a lot of time in the city I feel like I always have to justify that when i'm like i'm from chicago Yeah, because people will come for you.

I didn't grow up in the city. I was born in the city, I moved out  And grew up in the suburbs, but I feel like in skokie. There is a lot of filipinos there's actually like way more in vegas, which is interesting yeah numbers wise There's a couple thousand more in Vegas which per capita is like a lot because there's way more people in Chicago.

Yeah, my parents actually their first they used to live in Chicago when they immigrated to the States. I, it was like LA, Chicago, back to LA, San Diego, and then a town in between LA and San Diego called Temecula. But they lived there when I think it was like 91 and 92, like when Michael Jordan was like killing it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. 92 baby. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. 93 baby. 93. So they always talk to me about like how. He's so much better than Kobe, but I've always been yeah, I've always been curious. I've heard some such great things about Chicago as a city. It is a good city. If you don't like to be in the mountains, if you like climbing and Any of that I can like  different scenery It's not for you, but the city itself is great.

The people are really great I think you know, there's like this stereotype of like midwest nice And definitely get that there and it is pretty diverse And I feel like the people in the community are just really good. Like i'm still very close with my friends from chicago I think Once the climbing scene in chicago diversified a little bit more  With the help of some affinity groups but like my climbing community, there was like my second family and it was like, it was sad to like, not be able to see them a lot during the pandemic.

And then moving to Vegas during the pandemic. But I still every time I go home, I try to like, go home for at least like a week or two and make sure I spend time and see people and you  Yeah.  Yeah, do you have are your parents or any, either of your parents there still? And do you have extended family there still?

Yeah, so my dad actually moved to like Chicago and the states in general like when he was nine and He's the eldest of four and then his mom is the eldest of seven and like my mom my grandma and my grandpa On his side were like the first of their family to come to the states So they basically petitioned like all of our siblings got it to come to Chicago So most of my dad's family that I know like from his mom's side is in Chicago  And then my mom  was the first of her family to immigrate and move abroad.

The rest of her family have one cousin, or one cousin in the States, and then one cousin in Canada, like first cousins, and then the rest of them are still in the Philippines. I think she might have a brother that's in the Philippines. Maybe in Canada, but that's the one uncle. I have not met. She has seven or eight siblings if we're counting adopted  So your dad he was born in the Philippines, but he immigrated when he was nine and your mom immigrated in her later years She came here.

I think when she was 88  She was born in 50 when she was 30. Got it.  Yeah, did they meet in Chicago? Yeah, they met in Chicago Cool but my parents are divorced. Gotcha.  Gotcha. But yes, they're both still in Chicago and my mom like finally visited me here like after three years, like this past winter for Christmas and New Year's, which like I've been asking her to do for a while.

Yeah. I've been wanting to take her climbing. You posted about that. It seemed badass. Like you had shown her the ropes. Yeah.  Yeah. In Chicago, I tried to take her climbing so many times, but she's always my mom is very busy and has her a lot of her own things going on. She's a real estate agent.

And like absolutely loves her job, is a workaholic. She's always I don't want to lose this deal. I can't take time off. And then she also does ballroom dancing. She used to instruct, but she still competes. Cool. Yeah. She's been doing that for 20 years.  So she still competes with that and then,  yeah, she was also in the military in the Philippines.

She was in the army, so that was fun growing up but  I've always tried to get her to come climbing because I feel like she'd like it. But she's always I can't cut my nails, I have a competition coming up. Or I can't take off work, or I have this show, this showing just, like sometimes she'd be like, oh yeah, I'll come, and then she bails the last second.

And she's,  did that while I was climbing in Chicago, and then did that so many times. And she was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna visit you in Vegas. And she's I can't come anymore. It was really cool. So this time I literally booked her flight. Yeah,  this time I like booked her flight and like my brother had to force her on the plane.

She tried to bail out of it like literally in the last two hours. Oh, wow. I'm  You must have been so psyched that she finally, got her ass out in Vegas  Yeah, like I feel like we didn't get to do a lot of these outdoor things when I was growing up like Sometimes we like went camping or fishing but that was more mostly with like my dad's side of the family So once they divorced like I wasn't  like I still want to go camp like go fishing and then I have a friend who's really into fishing so we're planning to go up to mammoth, but I haven't fished since I was like 10 because Of all the drama with the family.

But yeah, it's like we didn't grow up doing this stuff  My parents are busy. We live in chicago. There was nothing there yeah for sure. It's i'm curious. I want to ask about why you're what? What got your dad into like outdoor things? I want to share that like in my experience like growing up both of my parents are immigrants they Did they also didn't have a desire to go outside that much we went to yosemite and We grew up in Temecula, which is an hour from Idyllwild, which is where Takits and Suicide Rock, so where the Yosemite Decimal System was developed.

And, there is no rea We had one tent from Costco that is still in the garage to this day. It's broken. I've been trying to convince them to throw it away. I feel like we always have that one tent.  We have a ten person tent. Unnecessary. Yeah, but it's always like,  Why would I want to go outside when I worked so hard for this house, wait, but it's fun to go outside it's just been something I think a lot about because it's not it doesn't come natural for at least from what I've observed more Immigrant parents who've worked really hard to create a life they want to desire being outside unless it's like again related to a hobby they really like to do. 

Yeah, I don't  I never really talked to my dad about it But like sometimes he would take my brother and I fishing like I'm like shorter fishing trips Like just drive to oh my god what I can't even think of what river it is But we would drive like to the Illinois, Iowa border a few hours away You And go fishing there.

And then we did go on like a few camping trips where we went fishing with my dad's side of the family, but  that was like the extent to like outdoors stuff. But yeah, I don't know if I like, have to give a reason. I feel like my dad just has a lot of hobbies and general. Like he's a hobbies guy.

He's a hobbies guy. Yeah. His garage is like RE. He also just gets really into collecting things too. And he's like really into martial arts stuff. So he collects like swords and Katana and stuff like that. And he used to break dance and dance when he was younger too.  Yeah. Both of my parents are like,  have a dance or like somewhat a background in dancing and are still pretty active.

Like my dad mostly does like social like salsa, dance. Dancing and stuff now. And my mom doesn't not doesn't do that She's just like more serious and wants to do like ballroom dancing. Yeah, ballroom is serious business But yeah, it's cool to hear that. They both had a dance background as well. My brother and I  Took my brother still me formerly  Did a lot of freestyle dancing and also my parents enjoyed dancing as well You they'll lead the line dancing at a party, or Oh, yeah.

They've taken some, what's called New Style Hustle, which is a style of hustle that is to like house music, or a little bit more upbeat music. Oh, cool. So it's a partner dance. Your parents? Yeah. Yeah, my parents and my brother got them into it. So they're really into just moving and stuff.

Yeah. I feel like everyone in my family had their dance phase. Like my brother also used to break dance. He still like whips out windmills and flares randomly at parties and like it's his party trick But if his friends don't know that he used to do that, like they're always just like where's this from?

And then I always wanted to get into like hip hop Growing up, but I think because my brother was like doing that it felt weird to him. Yeah, because like he was so annoyed of me. Like he's four years older than me. I see Yeah, he's Mike. Oh, yeah, and like he just wanted nothing to do with me and someone that was like his thing I just felt really like insecure even trying it  But I did do a lot of Filipino cultural dancing in college.

I actually choreographed for a year I was My Filipino organizations, one of the cultural court coordinators, and then stayed around as an advisor and helped out with like practices and some choreography here and there. Like in. The subsequent years that I was in college.  Wow.

That's awesome. I don't know. I wouldn't say like my dad has like an inclination for the outdoors. It's it's cool to hear that they both had a dance background as well. At this point in the interview. Christine and I talk about her goal of sending her first V8  and  512A in 2022. Now, the qu the reason this question is interesting to me is because in 2023,  I set the same goal to send my first V8 and 512A.

Christine and I had never known each other or met in person. And yet we had the same goal in climbing within a year of each other, her in 2022 and me in 2023. And I feel pretty fortunate to meet her because, just getting to know her, she represents the kind of person that I want to be, someone who wants to climb hard, someone who does what they can for the people that they care about.

And also someone who cares pretty deeply about experiencing climbing and getting to know climbing in the Philippines. So here's more from Christine about.  Her embarking on her goals of sending a V8 and 512 in 2022.  March 2021 to March 2022  to try to send my first outdoor 5 512A or 512, and then V8.

And it's just like grade chasing and grade goals are sometimes like silly, but I don't know what else to use sometimes. Like I, I definitely put pressure on myself to Do that and like I've grade chased but I feel like once I hit that goal I was just like, okay now I can focus on other things and not Care about a grade.

Did you hit those goals? I guess is my first question. Yeah, I actually  did it in the same week. Wow. I think that's also why like I pressured myself to try to get on my current rope project because I was just like I just want to ride the high of okay I like finished a bunch of things in Bishop like I feel like really good from being around like community and watching my friends climb hard and I just was like  Feeling  the wave of stoke and just wanted to ride that out because that's what happened two years ago I sent my first v8 in bishop And then came back and then sent my first 12a like in the same week or like the next weekend.

Damn I think it was in the same week. I think it was like a sunday and then the saturday or something like that So yeah, I think I just was like  and it would be cool  and it's fine that it didn't happen Yeah, was that also in the winter season too? Winter, spring? I think it was yeah like end of February  That it happened end of February or like early March Okay, so the seven Spanish send and now working into your new project two years ago you were You sent your, you hit your goal.

Three months in the year. Yeah, and then it was like this V8 that's I feel like known for being  very approachable. I don't like to say like soft. What was it? Water hazard. It's marked as a V8 minus now, which is fine. But I don't like to like, I try to avoid using like language like, oh, it's soft or it's too, it's easy.

And just try to say Oh, it's like approachable or like it was, it felt easier for me because of whatever. Cause everything is really just style dependent. And I had friends that climbed V11 that couldn't do it. So like  I took the grade. But I think it's a very like con, like condition, like Condi's, it's very like Condi's dependent climb and I think it's really good if you're good at crimping and have a smaller box because some of the feet you start with are really bad.

So if you're too tall, your knees push you out of the wall. Gotcha. So it's pretty it's great if you have a smaller box and it's pretty crimpy. Is it? Is it a longer ish type? Is water hazard a little bit longer? Is it shorter?  How many the hard climbing is pretty short. Okay, so it's in the upper sads in the ice caves  and It's like the first couple the first two moves are the hardest So I tried the first move and i'm like i'm i don't think i'm warmed up for enough for this So I like worked every other move and it's not that tall the whole boulder is tall So if you've ever been to the upper sads like when you park You walk down into  The area and then the ice caves when you top out you're basically in the parking lot  so it's like a 20  climb maybe but the Second half of it is like v0 jugs, but right like it was at night So didn't know where the holds were and then there's another wall behind you so if you fall It's a little scary for people because if you do fall you're gonna hit this wall behind you and one of my friends that got on it like last summer like  greased off of a hold and like  She's graded his back against the wall.

Oh my gosh, because it's you're it's pretty tight in terms of it's pretty tight I think you have two feet You Maybe, I don't know. I try not to think about it. Yeah. Can you dab on the, it's been a while since I've been on the ice caves. Can you dab? I don't think it's, I don't, maybe if you're really big and you're like climbing weird at the top.

So not really. Yeah. Gotcha. But like  for some people, I think it also feels safe. Cause if you feel sketched out on the top part, like you're, if you don't like high balls, like you can just lean back and stem and you're okay. But yeah, it's like the hard climbing  isn't that long. It's one hard move off the ground and then you go into this like really shitty slopey like side pull It's barely a hold and then most people do this really high right foot I don't have the hip mobility for that because I do have a torn labrum in my right hip So I can't do that really high right foot.

I end up doing like a lower right foot and open Some weird drop knee and then go to this two finger crimp. That's pretty good And then I think then I like do a drop knee and then I get like this in cut  Frim  that's like on the lip  and then from there you like Get a wide right foot and pull yourself over that initial ledge  and then there's a little bit of crimping and then you get to a really good like Juggy undercling and then you rest there and then you top out on v0.

But the first time I got to  The first time I got I, so I worked all the moves besides that first move, because that first move was like the hardest for me. So it's not like that tall where you can't like touch things. We just stacked pads and were able to figure out our beta. And then I think once my fingers are warm, I like pulled the first move and I actually stuck it.

So I almost sent on that go. If you've been on that climb when it's dark and you have floodlights on,  all you can see is up to that lip. And you don't really, you can't really see that top section, like the chimney section.  And so I didn't I do this all the time. Like I, I look at one part of a climb and then I like get there and I'm like, I didn't look at the rest of the climb. 

Did you have a lamp on? I had a headlamp on, but I realized I never actually looked up I just my brain was like, it's done here. I wasn't like, I didn't know where I was going once I hit that crimp, I like, didn't know where to put my feet, and then I just pumped out trying to like, find where to go.

 And then, I think I went to go after that. I just rested, and then just pulled on again. So that's also why I was just like, V8? I don't know. I don't know. For me, I don't know. I still took the grade because I'm like, there's so many climbs I get on where it's so much harder for me because I'm 5'1  So I'm like, I don't care.

I'm not gonna downgrade something. But it's even though that was my first eight it's not I've climbed harder things that felt harder to me. Gotcha. It, and it's, it seems like it suited your box, like you said, really well, which is oftentimes like a great strategy. If you're, if you are looking to grade chase and I've done, I do this all the time.

I'll seek out problems that suit my style that I think is that is a higher grade that I haven't done. Cause yeah, style over numbers. Like sometimes something that's like a V5 that isn't my style is much harder than a V8. That is it sounds like that one really suited you. Did you happen to get it on video? 

I did. It's like way down on my feet. I post a lot. No worries. We'll make sure to include it in the show notes. Water hazard. Yeah. Awesome. And then what was the 12A you did that season? So the, yeah, the 12A, it's called Blackened. It's at Sunny and Steep, another winter crog. Cool. I don't know if you've been there  for the climbers in the Philippines.

A 12 A is a seven a plus  a question on that. 'cause when I climbed in, when I climbed in Sabu, we, they were still, they were using the  decimal system. At least like the people that I climbed with Canta Tobacco. So  yeah, at least the people that I climbed with. But I don't know if they were just doing that because we're from the states.

Oh. Who were the people you were climbing with?  I, so the two Filipinos I climbed with ball. Val? Val? Val.  And  Patrick? Val and Patrick. I don't know them, but I'm sure so I know Doc, Leelai, Nikki Julie Depp.  I, yeah, I got connected to Petz, but then he was busy. Yeah, I got connected to him through some friends that climbed on the Philippines a couple years before I went.

I think they were there like 2016, but he was busy and so he connected me. He was like, someone will be at the hostel and be able to like, give you guys gear and stuff. Nice. At Les?  Yeah. And then Bell showed up and he's I think it's supposed to be me . Oh, cool. But we were there like the week leading into Lust for Lime.

I think it was Lust for Lime 14. It was 2018. I was like, wait, do they use the French or the YDS system there? , they were definitely saying things like, they were like, oh, this is an 11 a. Yeah. In when I climbed with Sibu rock climbing in Conta, it was, they also did use the Yosemite decimal system, and I think the guidebook is written in YDS, the Sabu Rock Guide book.

Okay. But when I've climbed in IRAs or, and in the, now they use the French grading system. Yeah, I don't know. I want to ask about your experience in Cantha, but before that, talk to us about 2022, this, the 12A you were doing. Yeah, so I was like,  I think it was December 2021.  I went out to Sweet Pain and I ended up on siting this 11C and I always thought like  I wasn't very strong on overhang.

Like I actually started bouldering a lot more and trying to moonboard and all of that stuff in 2019 to get better at ropes like because anytime I would get on the comp wall back in Chicago and I had to do A big move like I would freeze up and not know what to do and just pump myself out trying to figure out What I needed to do, which is why I started bouldering more and then climbing more overhang  so this route that I ended up on signing is like it's like pretty bouldery at the bottom and then There's slab and then there's a lay down rest, which I love and then it ends on like big moves on an overhang  Off of crimp jugs, I guess but it's very pumpy And I ended up on siting that and then I my friend was like you need to get on harder things and I was just like, okay So after that I was just like, okay, I need to go project shopping.

 So I was looking actually at cannabis crag, there's a 12a there called cannabis and there's another one called kgb That seemed pretty approachable and A little overhung but seemed like it was good holes. I've heard good things about it Like they're highly rated in Mountain Project and so I actually wanted to go to Cannabis Crag  But my one friend was pretty stoked on Sunny and Steep if you don't know where that is, it's like behind Craft Mountain So there's two ways to get there.

You can either walk or through craft boulders through gateway all the way around do some scrambling and it's like a 50 minute approach or you can go up the left side of craft mountain like over the they call it the saddle you like go up towards west craft past yin and yang crag and then that way but it's That way is way steeper.

So I'd rather just take the long flat way,  but anyways, it's another winter crowd because it just gets blasted by the sun and everything is yeah, getting baked in the sun and pretty overhung. The name of the crag said make sense. It's sunny and steep.  And I ended up seeing this line on the wall and I looked up what the grade was and I was like, Oh, it's a 12 a and I'm like, that doesn't look too bad.

Like I looked at what the.  Where I thought the crux was and I'm like, okay, it looks big and like reachy and crimpy But like I'm down to try  It just seemed like it was my style There was an 11 D to the left of it that I also was looking at but I was like no like I want to Try to try a 12. 

So I ended up getting on I think I warmed up a bit Also that there's no good warm ups at this crag like the warm up is a 5. 9 plus which is the worst grade 5. 9 plus is the worst grade. It's the worst grade. Yeah it's also the worst climb there. I will not be ever climbing that again.

It was also terrible to clean it's like this weird like vert slab slash overhung thing that has you have to like climb over three bulges And it's also really exposed and it's just like I was like, this is not what I wanted as a warm up I was like scared on Every time I was pulling over a bulge.

I was like scared anyways and I like I think after I did that I just went straight to the 12 and I was like, whatever I'll go bolt to bolt and warm up on it  And the crux move, you're like,  there's one kind of lower crux that I know some people struggle with, but I ended up getting that part.

Okay. I remember trying really hard and I was like, okay, like that wasn't too bad. The next move was like on a, I  do this kind of big reach  and some weird feet and then throw to a jug and not a throw. I just reach to a jug and then that's the rest. And then I was like, okay, that wasn't too bad. 

So then. I do the next section and there's so many holds on this rail. There's Three spots that have chalk on it and like a couple pockets and then the side pull  And so I just couldn't figure out the sequence for that So then I remember I like took there Figured out like what I could reach off the jug and like what sequence I wanted to do so I figured that part out  and then off of that rail and one of the pockets is a crux move and Basically, like the jug is your right foot that you're going to use for the crux move and it's just like a really big move to a really thin crimp  And you can see exactly where it is on the wall. 

So it's like all this chalk, nothing. And then a really thin line of chalk.  So my first time pulling that move, I just kept my hips square, like high right foot and just like through to it. And I hit it and I was on the crimp, but I like didn't feel like I could pull up. Like  I didn't feel like I was good enough on it to get stand up on that right foot.

So I like came down and theN.  I was like messing around with the feet. I'm like, okay, what else can I do? I'm like, I don't really want a heel hook. Cause I feel like that's going to shorten me.  Cause the first time I hit it, I was on a toe and I was like, okay, if I do it with a heel, I'm definitely not going to be able to reach it.

Cause it's going to shorten me. So then I was like messing around with my feet and trying some drop knees and stuff. And then I like did my favorite fucking move that I ever do. It's like my signature move. It's a toe hook drop knee. Oh, I love that. And.  That unlocked the move for me and some of my friends have tried doing that on that climb and they're like I don't like that.

I feel like my knee's gonna break but I love drop knees And I love toe hook drop knees because they're just so weird Yeah, but like you just you don't instinctually do it and it's just A pretty intense drop knee like it's completely straight down. But that ended up being, I'm toe hooking the jug. Oh, wow.

Okay. So I have my hands like like in front of my chest. I like reach my right foot up and then do the like really deep drop knee and like scoop my left foot up a little bit. And then that allows me to reach the crimp static. And not only that, I'm able to adjust my hand on it so that I could actually get really good on it and wrap my thumb. 

So that I could actually pull up. Because the first time I hit that crimp off of just the toe the toe wasn't letting me  adjust my hand to really get that crimp really well, whereas with the drop knee, I'm, like, stuck there. Yeah. And I could have a second to readjust. And then I have to unwind my knee, and then I pop up to a left hand. 

And my first time doing that move, Ahem.  I just, I was like, okay, I gotta just keep going. And I hate falling. I really hate falling. I'm trying to get better at it. But that's why I scream every time I fall. Cause I'm just Terrified or if I don't know what I'm doing and I don't know what the next move is like or what I'm throwing to I'm screaming because I'm assuming I'm gonna fall off of the route.

 And if you watch my I have a video of the first time I worked this problem and I'm like talking and like apologizing to people for screaming because I was being so loud,  but the next bolt is  Maybe 15 10 15 feet above maybe 10 feet You From the last bolt. Wow. So the bolt the bolts like right around where those last hands are before I pull the crux move and then I do that cramp get to this like knob and then from there I was just like I don't know where the hell i'm going and I like you can Reach the next bolt if the quick draw is in off of that knob, but there are no quick draws in So i'm just like staring at this bolt and i'm like, I think I have to keep climbing  So then I just start throwing my hands out and i'm like Climbing so messy.

I'm like so pumped. I'm screaming and I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, it's so loud I'm, just like apologizing to people at the crag because my voice is like echoing off of the wall Like that area just like echoes so much and  then I remember I got to a point where I'm like, I can't clip here. I'm like staring at the bowl and i'm like I can't clip and then I see it I like look up and see a jug and i'm just like just fucking throw to this jug  And then i'm just like, oh my god, I feel like i'm gonna throw up and i'm gonna cry but I was able to get my quick dry in and then I immediately took but I was just like, oh my god If I fell there, it would have taken the biggest whipper and it would have been safe But like there  The way that the crag is there's a ledge.

I don't think I would have hit anything, but it just it was, there was a lot of slack if I fell there. Yeah.  That's the third. Is that the third bolt?  I think it's the fourth. The fourth. Okay. I think there's five bolts on this. There's five. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's the fourth bolt. But yeah, in my audio, it's just Oh my God, if there's a time to cry, it's now.

And then after that, I, there's like another move where you have to do this, like really awkward, lock off and almost a mantle, and then it goes in the slab kind, like for a second and then it's vert again, but you have to do this awkward mantle off of these greasy crimps  and the foot felt just so awkward.

And then you hit like this really thin crimp and then you stand up and then like from there, it's basically done.  You're like on good edges, you clip the last thing, you traverse over, and then you're on jugs, and you just throw a heel hook and top out. Gotcha. Good holds. Short and steep. Yeah, I was like, okay.

I like, did the crux move and pulled all of that on an, I'm like, basically, I'm like, flash attempt at that section. So I was like, okay, I can actually do this climb. I think I  did it in  two sessions. Wow. Wow. Wow.  I think I,  yeah, I'm pretty sure I only went to that crack twice. I think I tried it that climb one more, one more time that day.

And I had a really hard time doing the crux move. I was like so tired and I almost had to have someone else clean it. But I eventually was able to pull through. But yeah, and then my second session on it, I think I sent on my third go. Or warmed up on it  almost, felt really good in my second go, but like on one of the moves, I don't know what happened, I like bumped out and I just was short.

And it was after the Cox already.  And I was like, I don't even know what happened. And then I sent on my third go that day. Which,  was really nice. I don't know, I was just like, oh, okay.  It's just a grade.  Yeah, but that's awesome. The first of the first 12a you've done. I think I've watched your send video.

You were like grunting, like really trying like super hard. Unless that was someone else in a different route. But, Oh, no, that was, I think there was this other girl at the crack. I also think she might be Filipino. Cause I was just like, nowadays you see another Filipino at the crack.

I'm just like,  yeah, but I don't know. I didn't want to be, I don't know. I try not to be weird about it sometimes. But no, this other person was screaming on the round next to me. Oh, okay. That was other person she did really well on Sunny and she did really well on steep Thrills, which is another 12 A on the other wall that's like really steep and bouldery.

But short. And then she got on sunny and Steep, which is an 11 D and she was like, this is harder than that, which I agree with. I had a way harder time on sending in steep than steep thrills. I haven't sent either, but like I've gotten on both of them and  I. Can agree with what she was saying.  Yeah. I have yet to go to that crag, but all of those roots sound really fun.

Blackened sounds awesome. My first 12A in Red Rocks was fear and loathing. And that one was, yeah it's all good holds, but very greasy and super long. Yeah, I was looking at it cause it's right next to the gallery. And I just climbed that wall of confusion for the first time three weeks ago, maybe, or a month ago.

I got in desert pickle. Is that the one to the left of here? And 11 C, like the vert 11 C. Oh, okay. And yeah, I have a friend that's in town that I'm like,  Recommended that climb to her, but we just need to get on it when it's good temps.  Yeah, that one tends to get pretty sunny  So many great sport climbs in Vegas.

It's yeah It's like an awesome place  When did you moved to Vegas? You said that the year before you'd set those two goals. That was 2021 What brought you out to Vegas?  I so I  had been working in health care for like You  Four or five years full time as a medical speech language pathologist.

And honestly, I was like never really happy with, sorry, this is like a tangent, but it relates. I was never really happy with that job. And I think once I started climbing, I just felt very like, held back by work. I was just like, why is my work completely dictating what I get to do with my free time?

Because I was the only speech pathologist at my hospital. I worked at a small community hospital in Chicago. I also thought I had my dream job as an acute inpatient speech pathologist. My boss was Filipino. I loved my co workers. I liked, I loved the opportunity, but I Was like not happy and a big part of that was because I just wanted to be outside climbing And I just wanted to go on climbing trips and a lot of my friends were like starting to work remote around that time during the pandemic and once it was like a little bit safer to go on trips and stuff  like traveling and  like I wasn't able to do that as much and I feel like  I was feeling really like bad and insecure about it in a way So I had a weird opportunity to switch careers  I broke my ankle in 2020,  August, 2020.

And then during my six weeks of medical leave, I like did a coding bootcamp. And then did, I think I did a part time while I was like still working. And my friend who I went to college with is also from Chicago, ended up moving to Boston the same time I was living there and we lived together for a year.

So I knew we had the same like experience.  And the same perspective on where we would want to live, because we both hated living in Boston. And then her parents ended up moving to Vegas to retire. And then she left Boston and ended up moving to Vegas and living with them for a while.

And she told me I think you'd like it here.  She was just like it's great. It's you don't have to be in this trip. Like the community is good. The food is good. It's not expensive. And then when like that plus climbing just made sense.  Yeah. But yeah, and I was like, okay, it's like close enough to California.

It's close to so many things. Like within five hours, like I have Bishop, Black Mountain Flagstaff Joe's Valley, Moe's Yeah, and there's all year round climbing here I don't want to gatekeep but and be like, oh no Don't move to Vegas. It's getting like Vegas is full. It's getting busier here.

Red Rocks is closed. It's busy, but I'm not, I'm not gonna gatekeep But  yeah, I feel like a lot of people have noticed that oh Vegas is like The only thing is it's like very dry, and there's no water, and I really miss water. So that's the one thing that I'm like, I don't know if I could stay here long term.

Gotcha. But for now, it's home, and the community's really good. We ended up getting a lot of friends from Chicago to move out here. A couple of our friends that came out here when we road tripped, when we moved, They like stayed for two weeks and then when they left they went back and sold their condo and planned to move here Oh my gosh was one of them.

Yeah Apple. Yeah, when I was like, yeah when I was trying to connect you to go to fear and loathing. Yeah, thanks for that connection. That's so awesome. So it sounds like a lot of your friends moved out to Vegas Yeah, there's this weird a little like Chicago crew in Vegas, but then also since we have a big airport It's like people are always coming through people are always driving through Vegas You  It's like a nice central spot.

I love being able to host people and have friends save some money by staying with us. And yeah. Yeah. It's been nice living here. And there's a lot of Asian food. There's a lot of Filipinos. There's a lot of Filipinos. And it's funny because I my mom is Ilocano. I don't understand or, I don't speak or understand, but I can recognize it.

And like I heard a lot of Ilocano here, which was like very odd. And then I found out it's because it's like a lot of the Filipinos here came from Hawaii and there's a lot of, most of the Filipinos in Hawaii are Ilocano. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I have to look into the history into that, but then I know there's a few factors as to why there's a lot of.

Filipinos who speak Ilocano in, in Hawaii. Yeah. My friend said it's because like the Northern part of the Phil, like just geographically, the Filipinos that brought over were from the Northern part, which is Ilocos Norte. Is that where your mom's from? Her parents are from Ilocos Norte and then she's from Isabela.

So yeah, Santiago City, Isabela. Gotcha. And so that's like  Central East Luzon. Like 10 and a half, 10 to 12 hours Northeast from  Manila.  And then is your dad also from Luzon as well? Yeah. Jolicon area, like Manila, but I've never visit his family there. So I'm not entirely sure. I just know Jolicon area.

Okay, cool. So both your parents were from are from Luzon, I should say. Awesome. But back to Vegas, it, and there are a lot of Filipinos in Vegas. There are a lot of hospitals, for sure,  I'm sure that's a big reason why. It's really funny too my I also fantasize about moving to Vegas in a winter season, just because of, like you said, how awesome the climbing is there, and yes, Red Rocks is closed, no more space for you, that kind of thing I am mindful that it's getting more crowded.

But man, it's so close to so many great places, and we, I'm not trying to discourage people from moving. Yeah. No, it's just a funny joke. I feel like some people would be like, Don't stop telling people. I know, right? I'm like, it's not a secret. As if it's gonna stop people. You can do whatever they want.

I have an aunt in St. George, and they're from  Her and her husband are both also from Bataan, or she's from Bataan, I forget where the husband's from, but they're both from the Philippines and they grew up not, or not grew up, they settled in St. George with not many Filipinos around them, which is really interesting because St.

George is like an hour and a half or an hour, depending on if you drive like me, because I'm from Southern California there's not many Filipinos in St. George compared to Vegas, it's like quite striking. Yeah. So that's just one thing I've observed as well, but yeah, it's such a, so central to such great climbing.

You, you mentioned earlier that you do boulder intentionally, like you do it and you identify as a sport climber primarily, but it's something you do. I want you to say a little bit more about that. I have this hunch that for sport climbing friends who talk to me about wanting to Elevate their game.

One thing I usually recommend is  just getting on the moon board and being more comfortable doing more dynamic movements Which is one thing you're really good at you actually practice Board climbing and that obviously shows up in your sport climbing. Yeah There's just like one climb out in a black mountain.

I don't know if you've been there seen this climb It's called once upon a time. Huh I think you actually commented on my post about it and then I saw your video and I was like, oh shit Christine's done this I feel like that one  I like, I, it's scary. It's a V one, but like grades are, again, grades are stupid

It's that ain't a V one. It's like I feel like you need to be able to climb V four to do that thing. Yeah. At least. Or at least have I don't know. But that thing's scary. It's really scary. I'd have to jump on that first. Move to that jug. Like you go out left,  you hit this big right hand.

I full jump to it.  I full jump to it, cut feet, and then I think I campus match. And then,  yeah, I was just like, oh yeah, okay. Yeah, I know how to, I know how to jump on the moon board. This is just a moon board thing. So I, and I think that's something I do a lot in my climbing, is I'll find a move that's Similar to something I've done before and I'm like this is the same thing as this problem I did in the gym So I know exactly what I need to do in terms of positioning my body And i'm like, I know I can do the move because i've done the same thing before on another climb so I feel like just hearing that in my head like Oh, it's just a moonboard jump.

I was just like, okay, I can do that.  It's fine. Full commit. So Black Mountain's like my favorite place to go bouldering. Was that the first time? I think it was the first time. Yeah. Hell of a problem to do on your first trip to Black. Yeah, I think I did ,  overhang something. Crimp overhang. I did crimp overhang.

I did flower pot dyno, which was also like a really big jump. And then I think I tried, maybe I tried center visor or on a different trip I've tried center visor. Okay.  Yeah, that one was like, that one is an iconic one for sure. Yeah. Like my heart has never raced faster on a climb, like sport, anything, because you just feel like you're so high in the air because  You just see clouds around you and then the drop gets higher the higher you go And you're just like i'm gonna fall in this hole and die  I'm gonna roll down this hill and she's great down the slab and fall in this hole and die It's not that bad.

It's an eight foot drop, but my friend said her friend fell in there and he's fine But you still don't yeah. Yeah, he fell in the hole. Oh my gosh Oh, it's funny when we took out there. He actually dropped his shoe and it rolled into the hole  So I had to go in there. I had to walk down and climb under or walk underneath and go retrieve his shoe.

Poor Ah, that's wild. So once upon a time for the listeners is a UFO shaped boulder in Black Mountain. It's a, it's got a V1 on it and it's just an aesthetic climb. Like when you look, when you put your, set your camera up and look out to the boulder behind it is just clouds and you're at the edge of the cliff and the view is such that and it looks like if the climber falls, it looks like they can fall off the cliff, which having climbed it, and I'm curious, Christine, if this tracks with your experience. It there is it's slant. The landing is slanted, but there is enough ground to stop your fall. From and if you do fall, you're going to fall in almost like a shoot.

Or just it's almost like a chimney or shoot.  So you won't fall off the cliff. But it does look like you can.  Yeah, it's definitely like looking at it. You're just like I  It's I think it's more so if you biff that last move dude, like it's over you're gone  You don't want to go for that last lip, which is an absolute jug But like I think for me I was like I don't know if i'm gonna be able to keep my feet on for this move Like it's such a big lock off and I didn't see any videos of anyone my size doing it Like the shortest person I think was five three five four and they were able to do the lock off static but like I didn't see any videos of anyone cutting feet.

No one like as short as me So I was just like hi look if I try to go for that and I cut feet and I fly off Like i'm gonna die but yeah, I like ended up doing some weird like I just improvised I told myself i'm like I'm gonna commit to this lock off  and then I like pulled onto the lock off I'm, like I look up i'm like I can't reach that and I immediately was just like I looked around I see this like thing and I like  I think I like went like this and gassed on something and then I like looked for a foot and I like drop kneed my left foot got my right foot up and then I was just like, and then I used both feet to pop up.

Oh, wow, and that's intense. I was like breaking rock off like oh shitty litter was coming off. My spotters were just like, what the fuck are you touching? I'm like, I don't know  Whatever I can get right now I'm like, I need something else to help me like stand up cuz when people most people do that lock off It's just like left foot on pull the right.

Yeah,  pull it to the jug But like for me, I'm like I needed both feet on and I needed like fully stand up. Wow That's crazy why my heart was racing so fast when I got to that jug I like had to do my classic thing like Rest like I'm on a sport climb. Yeah to get my heart rate down because I knew the next part was going to be really Reachy for me because everyone can reached the good hold. 

And I tried, and I'm like, I can't reach that. So I had to cross onto a slope y crimp and then Gaston over it into the jug. That's wild. So I was just very fucking stressed topping that out. Yeah. Your heart was palpitating. It was beating loud.  Yeah. The high blood. Yeah, the high blood pressure.

I think I think it, but it's seriously crazy how you found intermediate, was it a crimp or something like that? And then you situated your feet. It was like, a slope y, side pull thing. I don't know. I wouldn't remember my skin grabbed onto. I think that's like the thing with granite. It's it bites into my skin.

I'm gonna hold it. Exactly. Which is yeah. One reason I love it. But you, it's so impressive that you got your feet up to situate before hitting the final jug on, jugs, jug on the lip. Most people, and myself included, like you said, I can reach the next jug just by locking off. But you have, you had to keep, stay tense on a very scary climb.

Maybe I could have, but I don't know if my right hand would have stayed on. I don't know if my feet would have stayed on. I was just like, I, this is not the climb to do this on.  And I was like, okay if I do this other beta where I'm like more square and I'm not going to fly off it's going to be a safer fall.

I felt okay just like improvising and risking it. Because it, it's scary. Once I got my feet up, I like met, I like looked up, I'm like, Oh, I can hit that. Yeah, for sure. We'll make sure to include that video in the show notes. So I want to shift gears a bit and talk about community. So you do, like you mentioned earlier, you just came back from Bishop.

Not only were you climbing, but you were also doing a, were you doing a workshop with Brown Girls Climb for FlashFoxy? So I was hosting a Brown Girls Climb meetup. It was like just a five hour meetup in the buttermilks. Like one of their free meetups they So basically two years ago They like had changed like their whole mission statement and started bringing in more like community partners and affinity groups And doing affinity space meetups.

So I actually went two years ago when they came back after the pandemic and changed the mission statement to be more inclusive to not just women. And it's not just a women's climbing festival anymore. It's women and gender queer folks for flash Foxy. And so I volunteered to do a workshop with brown girls climb in 2022, but then also they wanted us to host the BIPOC affinity meetup. 

So I in collaboration with the Eastern Sierra climbers of color as well. So we did that. And the happy is two years ago. And then I came back again this year to do specifically a BGC meetup, which because of it, our community is women, genderqueer folks of color. It ended up being like basically the same kind of community, which was nice.

But yeah, they have so many like community partners and meetups. So like before, I think they only did an LGBTQ one and then the BIPOC one. And then this year there was like,  I think there was like eight meetup groups. That's awesome. That's awesome. Especially for the folks that like can't afford to do a clinic or don't want to do a clinic or just want to meet other people.

It was like nice that they were able to provide more opportunities for people to climb in groups.  Yeah, that sounds awesome. How did it, how did your meetup go?  It was good. I think it was a little chaotic cause like trying to like, The parking at the Buttermilk was just hard. It was so busy too. So yeah, we were like, okay We're meeting at the birthday boulder lot.

It was full so then half of us had to go park at like the main lot near the Peabody's and then Walk and it was like hot and we like started an hour late And then also there was like two other groups at the birthday boulders, but we were they were all from the festival So we were all just like it's fine.

We're just gonna share the space but it was good. It was like a mini bouldering outdoors clinic for some people we made sure to go over just general ethics of bouldering and especially in buttermilks making sure we're protecting the, any protected soil or plants in the area that are, like, marked by the trail and stuff like that  and also making sure that like people are aware of who stewards the land because the tribe is still very much like alive and Present in bishop today and it's a very sacred area to them And so making sure that we're aware of this is like a sacred space for these people for Paiute and Shoshone people and Yeah, we all like for bgc.

We always like start with our land acknowledgements and some people have like views on that But I still think it's important to be aware and like just set the stage Like this is the type of organization we are and this is like what we care about but yeah, and then we also went over like how to place pads and how to spot and gaps and Like how to be a good spotter and how to communicate well with your climber and spotter because  that's something that I've experienced where I as a climber like i've had spotters that did not communicate with me and I that's part of the reason I broke my ankle so That was something that we like we made sure to talk about was just like communicate.

And as a spotter, you're not just spotting, like check in with them, especially in the buttermilks. Like a lot of the clients get really tall  and sometimes when you're like scared and you just don't, you can't process what's going on and you can't really like, Say what you want. And so it's good for your spotters to check in and be like, hey, are you good?

What are you feeling? Do you, what do you need? Do you need support? Do you want to come down? What do you want beta? Because sometimes when you're scared and you're up that high, you can't think of those questions. You can't think of what you need from people. You're just like  trying not to fall and die off this rock. 

Yeah, that's really great. I I also have broken my ankle. First time I climbed outside. This was at the Gunks when I used to live in New York. Me and three other dudes from  Climbed at a gym called GP 81, which is a gym that, by the way, I want to, I really want to shout out. I know, but I think they have a new location.

Yeah. But still I always wanted to go there, but I'm like, I feel like everyone that climbs are just like has so many good things to say about it. And I've seen like the community events they've put on. And like I'm friends with some of the folks that like run try hard crew. And I've seen like the events they've put on.

And I'm just like, that's, I'm like,  And to have an event called don't like try not to be a dick or something like that is what they had. Yeah. And it was like, wow. The Chicago gyms could never, yeah, for sure. It was definitely the spot that a lot of climbers. Who are super training oriented and or we're looking to find an affinity group went to and it was I know they have a new spot now and I think they're I'll have to check if they're reopening soon But I know they're in progress of setting up a new space.

Yeah, a lot of my friends were sad Yeah, but so anyway when I first climbed it when I first climbed outside at the gongs bouldering We rented out a crash pad three of us at the gym from REI, like a Metolius double pad, and I did this problem on Doug's roof called the warm up. Did the problem and then just dropped into the crash pad.

I didn't know how to fall into a crash pad outside properly, nor did my spotters know how to spot. I missed the crash pad, my rifle missed the crash pad. I hear a click, and I was like, ooh, that's probably just a sprain. Got the x ray and attended it ended up being a broken ankle. Oh, so I broke my ankle in the warm up.

That's  First time to that's so traumatizing  Was yours outside was your ankle injury outside? Yeah, it was on this v4. It was pretty tall before out in Wisconsin I like got out of work early drove up to Wisconsin to meet some friends It was like I was meeting  four of my guy friends you And then we're getting on this climb called the Godfather, and it's notorious for having a really scary top out.

It's like a really thin, slopey mantle. There's a tree behind you,  and  I, we like, put the pads down, and there's this rock to the left, and I was considering like, putting a crash pad there, and then someone was like, you don't need a crash pad there. And I was just like, okay, whatever. I think we had a lot of crash pads we had enough. 

And then,  I don't, I, Got to the top like my first  time on it and I didn't think I was going to almost onside it like and if I Did I would have definitely been way more adamant about the pads that set up and checked everything And I think because it was it's so overhung I don't I didn't realize where I would fall from the top because I was like just looking at the climb from underneath and  I was at the top of this climb trying to top out and the way I wanted to top out my head would have been hanging over this rock that I said I wanted to put a crash pad on and so then I was just like okay I'm not gonna do that beta and then I was like slapping around trying to find something and then it was like during the pandemic too so my legs were like not as strong so they started I started getting the Elvis leg.

And that's when I started panicking and I was like, okay, I need to come down  and then I dropped down Where my foot landed there was a tree root under the crash pad And so I knew immediately my ankle broke It was just like it didn't twist or anything But I just had a sharp pain shoot up my  ankle and leg and I was like that's not a sprain I'm, like pretty sure that broke.

And Yeah, I like put a lot of blame on myself for that and I think after like You  Because I was like, oh, I didn't check the crash pads. I didn't put a crash pad here. I, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I saw another video of someone Traversing for the top out and they missed they like got off the pads and they actually ended up blowing the top out and falling off pads And hurting that I think it wasn't a break, but they  fucked up their ankle like before that sprain You saw this before you tried it or I saw this after so like I was like, oh, that makes I put all the blame on Myself.

Yeah, I put all the blame on myself when I was dealing with this. I didn't I was just like, oh, it's me I should have been the one to check the pads and everything and then I think after seeing that video and I saw how she was reacting like, oh I shouldn't have traversed over the pad off the pads  I was like, that's not your job as the climber.

That's your spotter's job  And there were more people there's like someone recording there's people spotting and no one moved the pads No one said hey, you're off pads No one moved the pads And then I think seeing her react to that and then me reacting to how she was blaming herself I like clicked with me.

I was like, oh shit like it. I need to talk to my I need to talk to my friends  And then I hadn't actually cried about that, about my injury until that, because then I realized oh shit my spotters didn't support me in that moment. And if you look at my video, it was, like,  pleat silence for the two full minutes that I'm up there.

And I don't think I realized it at the time, because I was just in my own head, trying to top out. But then, when I rewatch my video, it's Almost embarrassing how no one said anything Like I was up there like 15 feet up  panicking and like you can tell i'm like slapping around and no one said anything.

They weren't like, are you okay? Do you want us to move pads? Do you want us to double pad? Do you need to come down?  And yeah, that was like one of the first times I had to like confront like climbing partners and have that hard conversation and then it took a while to like You Learn how to trust like spotters again because I feel like a lot of people bolder because they're like, oh It's just me and my pad like it's all on me and it's not true.

Like it's a Fucking group effort. Yeah, it is a group project  like I think a lot of the climbs that I got on this trip like  You have to plan the pads and the spotters like Kat got an Atari You this past week and If you've seen atari and the drop off to the right if the climber falls Even the spotter like needs a spotter and a pad because if you fall off The wrong way like you're gonna fall down a hill down rocks and I think like  I was telling like some of the people that was climbing it this week I was just like this is so different than that experience yeah, that's so great.

It's just so much coordinating and so much checking in with each other and Like I felt, I think that's why I was able to try hard was because I had pads. My friend was like, you have pads, you have people. And I'm like, okay, yes, I trust y'all. I know you guys have my back, like literally.

Cause like I have a bad, I have a bad back.  I think that's amazing that you had instilled those practices at a meet up like that, because those climbers are now going to have a very positive experience having spotters and they're going to start teaching. Their friends to spot properly and to communicate.

It I also agree with you in that it is a group effort. It's like spotting is like belaying. Like you have to be so attentive and super communicative. And also not even just like on the rock, but beforehand, like asking the climber where they feel most stressed and where they want the most support and how they like that support. 

But yeah, physical safety. And then also just safety around other people too. Like some places just don't feel safe. Like when I went to color the crag, people were like, you're going to the South, you're driving to Alabama with strangers to go climb. And I was just like, look, if you're going to a climbing festival for people of color in the South, like you can't be a bad person. 

I was like, if you want to be in a part of this festival, like I know it's in the south, but like I know the groups that are organizing and i'm like the people at this event can't be bad even though we're going to  the most ideal place where a lot of people might not feel really might not feel safe and 

I think like being around that group also taught me how to be an attentive spotter and I think there's just one thing they do every or they used to do called bum boy bash Where like the first night of the festival, they go to the like iconic climb, Bumboy, which is like this slopey V3, really hard mantle top out.

And there's just a bunch of music and lights blasting. And it's like a huge crowd of people on top of the rocks, watching and screaming at everyone, giving burns. And I think this is the first time where I heard spotters be like, I'm with you. And I think that's Something that I like held on since that festival I think this was like the 2019 festival because that was the first time I started hearing that and  I feel like I actually like that resonated with me a lot because it was like, oh, yeah You're not by yourself Like your spotters are like with you and paying attention and I feel like just literally saying that When I'm climbing and hearing my belayer say that has made a big difference.

And so I've also been like using that when I spot or belay. Thanks for listening to our first interview. Let's go into our second interview. 

Like literally I messaged you while I was at the gym right when after I talked to him.  Yeah, I saw, I was on Instagram. I saw Ivan or you, it was either you or Ivan posting a photo of you both. I was so happy to see that. And then I see my DMs, Christine Joy. Christine, Hey, can we do a second interview?

I'd love to be a little bit more articulate about how Filipino I am. That's not exactly the way I'm going to actually provide a quality response to some questions about identity. So we're going to, that's our goal for this interview. We're going to do that, right? Yeah. It was funny to see like Ivan and then see Jerry like right after. 

Cause I, I saw Jerry two days after that and we were talking about the interview too and Jerry was like, Man, I wanted to redo it too, but I was lazy. Jerry's was a lot of effort. He was using Wi Fi at a Mexican restaurant. And our, we had to stay on the link for two extra hours just upload into the cloud.

And then it didn't upload. And then so I had to fight, I had to get asked, anyway, I had to fight for the audio from the podcast, but we got it and it's out there and that, that's all that matters. Yeah. Cool. How was the red?  It was fun. I I feel since last year I've set a goal to spend at least a week there in the spring and in the fall. 

And I did that last year. I spent seven days climbing there and then November I spent. Another seven days climbing there and then this trip I was like, okay, I want to spend a little bit longer So I have 10 days which just allowed for a little bit more flexibility in terms of Resting if I really wanted to try to send something And the last time I was in the red I was like not in shape not in sport shape.

I had come off of three injuries, basically like spraining my ankle really bad in june and then I sprained my wrist and September or August and then I sprained my back in September like right before I went to Horseshoe Hill and So I went into my trip to the Red like really out of shape and I could tell like on my first day Last november that like I felt worse on my first day compared to my seventh day in april  So that felt really bad, but I quickly like shifted gears last time to be like, okay i'm not gonna send anything So i'm just gonna go bolt to bolt and try really hard Which actually was like really fun because I got to try do really hard moves without feeling like Any pressure because I was trying to pressure myself to send something or make something happen You  but this season, I felt like I was a little bit more in shape, I'd been climbing more I tried to get, in the last two weeks before heading to the Red, I tried to do a lot of rope sessions and did some really wild things that I didn't think I would do.

Could do because I didn't think I had endurance like I'd just been bouldering mostly for march so there was two weeks leading up to the red I like went to red rock a bunch and was just trying to do volume and I like  Sport climbed or I climbed glitter gulch  Six times. 'cause Esther just literally kept yelling at me to keep going until I fall and I never fell.

But I was like, I cannot go for a step in the time. We need to shout up to Esther, like we need to clean this route and go home.  And then a few days later, I like tried to do another volume day and ended up climbing like eight pitches in like the few hours that I was out and. It was just like a monster sesh at sweet pain again but anyways so like I was trying to prep my endurance for going to the red because there were a few climbs that like I wanted to try to send that I got on last in november And the two things that were like my priority climbs were check your grip It's a 512a at drive by crag  and then swedish fish Which is 110 foot route at the chocolate factory also a 12a  but both of them felt like You They were  really fun climbs and like my style, like Swedish fish is a little bit different.

Just cause there's one section that's scary. You're like doing this lay back undercling, like slopey undercling traverse and just like smearing on the wall. And it was really scary the first time I did it. And I was screaming the entire time and like every single move I was screaming out of fear and my friends are just laughing at me.

But yeah, so I felt like I remembered at least most of the route.  To be able to give it like a solid red point burn. So I feel like this trip, I was just like  really trying to just red point client red point, certain clients that I've tried before. Did you try Swedish fish the last time you were there or was that, okay, got it.

So these two you had tried prior. Yeah. I only gave one burn on each of them. But I feel like when I go bolt to bolt on things, since I'm spending a little bit more time at certain sections I'm able to remember some more of the beta which is and I like have some videos of some of the climbs to like, I had videos of check your grip, but I feel like I'm able to remember certain sections just by watching people climb or just like having climbed it myself, which is like crazy.

Cause it's Oh, I've climbed these routes. It's Once six months ago, and I still remember like most of the beta. It's like small micro things I don't I might not remember but most of it. It's okay. Remember this section is like this I remember that I need to get to this hole to clip da this I know this is where i'm gonna rest Whatever, which is like I think one of my strengths when it comes to climbing but also like definitely hinders me because I'm not like mentally flexible and if something feels different or if i'm doing something differently than I thought Or expected in my head.

It like messes with me. So yeah, it's like a strength that I can remember all this beta but then also like sometimes i'm like also sometimes i'm delusional like I think I've done something when I haven't like I don't know if I mentioned this in the last podcast But like when I was climbing, when I did seven Spanish angels, I had told my friends, I even, I believe this.

And I had told my friends, I'm like, Oh yeah, I like. Got my foot up and then I've pulled on to that crimp and then I haven't gotten past that before and like when I was Editing my video and looking at old clips Like I never actually pulled on to the left that high left foot after you like go to that right gaston crimp Oh, I've gotten my left foot on and I've started to pull on to it But I never actually like fully pulled on to it and got to the crimp But I like thought about it so much that I convinced myself that I've done it before.

And then same thing. So wait, so left heel on seven spin? Not. I do a toe, but it's oh, you do a toe. Yeah. It's like a crimp and then you bump to a crimp pinch left hand. Yep. But I like. Interesting. I think I've seen so many people do it  that I just thought I did it,  but. Yeah. I, same thing happened with solarium.

I was like, oh yeah, I've tried this move before and like it. Felt doable, but now I've literally only seen people's videos who are about my height do it. So I convinced myself that I could do it, which like sometimes that's that works anyways. Yeah. With the red I like went with the intention of trying to send those two climbs.

But we had a really big group. There's eight of us, nine of us on like our biggest days.  We had some friends coming in and out of the Airbnb. So  I. Wanted to try to send at least one of them in the first few days before more people came in because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't like being selfish in a way and focusing on my own climbs and I wanted to be able to like Support other people and go where other people wanted to go.

 So I mean, I think our first day we went to drive by which is where check your grip is and I like gave it like one burn. I ended up pumping myself out on it You  And then on my second burn, I like literally woke up from a nap. I told myself I wasn't going to climb it again, but then  I don't know, someone like convinced me to do it.

I woke up from a nap and I was just like, ah, this isn't going to go well. And then I actually ended up feeling like way better on it that time. I still took at the same spot, but I felt way better. And I'm like, I think it was because there was no pressure and I was way more relaxed.  And so I realized that Sometimes on my first go,  I feel this pressure to like, try to make something happen and try to send.

And I feel really fresh and strong. So I actually like climb too strong, like over grip and I like climb a little bit too powerfully, like then I actually need to for some of those moves. So the second go actually felt like way more relaxed and I didn't feel as pumped on it. But still didn't send that's fine. 

And then I went back on like I think two days later I picked up my friend from the lexington airport and I had messaged her a few days before and i'm like Hey after I pick you up. Can we can you belay me on my project? I want to try to send now that I like have the beta dialed  and she's yeah You So I literally picked her up from the airport.

We stopped and got McDonald's on the way and then drove to the crag. And I've been pretty lucky on this climb where there's already been draws on it and the people have let me just like climb, like work in. So I told these guys that I could clean for them and they were fine with that. And I felt really good when it, I got to a second to last clip that I've never had an issue clipping. 

I get my right hand on this hold  and I don't know what the fuck happened but I For some reason tried to clip it differently in a different position than I usually do Usually like I get my right hand on this hold. It's Flat and then I do a high clip from there but for some reason I like  Move my hands a little bit more to the spot to the holds where I pull to get to the next hold which is a jug  but then when I was trying to clip the holds were like more slopey in those sections So then I started panicking so i'm like shit.

I don't think I can clip like this  And then I like was just like thinking oh should I just go for the next move? But then I was like I need to clean so I don't want to take a huge fall right now  If I don't, if I pump out going to the next move. So then I fucking French clipped, which is I grabbed the draw and clipped my rope in cause some people don't know what that is. 

But I was just like, I don't know what happened. I've never had an issue that doing that or clipping that. And I'm like, Oh, maybe I should have just gone to the next jug and clipped off of that, which wouldn't, I would have been clipping like near my waist, which is, would have been fine. But I like hopped right back on and then got, went to the anchors.

So I was okay with that. I was like that's like the closest to sending that I'm going to probably get this trip. And I don't want to like just climb this one thing. It'll go just not this trip. And that's fine. I think the fact that I knew that I could do it was like enough. I don't think like sending is always like what I.

What the goal what my goal is like, yeah, it was my goal But like  I wasn't I'm trying to not be too attached to that idea of like I have to send because then I'm gonna be too focused on it and get into this space where I Don't feel like I'm present enough for other people  Which like I don't want to be when I'm like there with friends and I like want to make sure that I'm supporting other people on their climbs and it was just more so annoying because of like logistics  Like oh if I just sent that first day or if I just sent that day like I wouldn't have to go back but it's fine.

And then swedish fish I didn't scream at all on that climb, which was cool. I got to the last completely silent. Like I, I like got past the like traverse section, like the undercling traverse. I remembered exactly what I needed to do. I got to this whole, where I knew I needed to rest.

And then when I got there, I let out like a like a sigh. And I was like I didn't think I'd get make it this far  because I was just like trying to keep it all together. And that's the thing I feel like i'm known for being really loud on the wall and screaming and try it like Try hard screaming or just screaming because i'm scared or just like hysterically laughing but I think because I like really  Wanted this climb like the movement on it is so fun.

It's beautiful. There's two wakos like and I feel like it was like just hard enough for me but  Yeah, I think when I'm on Climbser, I'm like, okay, I know the beta, I know I can do it, and I'm just trying to like, send. And focus i'm like really quiet. But I got to so there's two waco in the zone Yeah, so there's two wacos and they're both towards the top One of them is like you're basically done you're done with the route You just have to clip the anchors out of that waco  and then the first waco was right before the crux So I got to the first waco clean and I was just sitting in there like fuck I really want to send this I like need to remember the beta and I can't I remember the beta but then You a little bit of one of the feet broke off So and it's overhung and it's a small pocket So I couldn't I had a hard time seeing that foot  and so I was just like fucking around I didn't get the like right pinch correctly And then I had forgot that the left hand that I throw to is actually blind like The front part of it is slopey and has chalk on it And so you feel like that's where you slap, but you actually go deeper and I like did the crux move  after fumbling my feet because the rope also goes over your foot So I was trying to make sure that if I did fall like it wouldn't flip upside down  But I like hit the slopey part and flew off  Oh, but I feel like if I did that I feel if I got that crux, I think it would have gone because You  After that it's like jugs and then  it's pretty chill to the top You're just pumped but there is potential to rest and shake out.

 But yeah  So that was cool. Wow  I got close to sending Five, like four of the twelves that I like wanted  and it's fine. I didn't send, I didn't end up sending any of the twelves that I got on, but it's fine. I'm like, yeah, I'm heading, I'm going to be back in the fall. So I'm just like, I'm just going to have a revenge tour in the fall.

It's fine. Yeah. Open up some projects. Can and just so that I'm visualizing Swedish fish correctly. So when you said the, if you were to nail that crux, the rest of it should feel chill. At what point is that part to the anchors? Is that, are you two bolts left to the anchor? So yeah, you have two bolts.

You have two more bolts. There's, yeah, it's 110 feet. The angle that I recorded from was like not great. It's it like looks distorted. It's distorted.  Yeah, anyway,  I like what you said though about the fact that you can do it is enough It feels like the feels like a pretty good theme that summarizes your trip Yeah, like  I think  yeah feeling like I can send is like enough and I'm like, I'll go back and I don't like  I know I can do it.

I just like even though okay Yeah, part of me wants to just go and take it off. I try not to like obsess over that  because I think Just like feeling good on the moves and link making links Already feels really good especially considering the last time I was on that was like a hot mess and I was like Screaming and flailing and just I feel like every section I was like, so tired and felt so pumped and everything was so hard for me, but this time felt like miles different.

I felt like I was flowing through the moves. I felt I like climbs that feel like I'm like swimming where it just feels really intuitive. And that like traverse section. You go from like a lay down, rest into this heel hook traverse into this under cling traverse.  And then this like juggy layback and then some other fun moves but it just felt way more intuitive this time compared to last time and that's like what I want out of a route I like want fun movement.

I want to be able to hit flow to some extent And feel like good in the way that i'm climbing. It doesn't I don't necessarily have to send it  Even though I feel like that should be the goal. I try not to make it That's the all end all of like why climb routes.  I love that. It's a very wise perspective.

I feel like it took me a long time to learn that. So many days hiking outside of the crack, feeling bad about myself. That was when I had first started rock climbing and that now it's like any inch of fun or progress reminds me that I'm having a good day. I feel like it takes some time to get to that more zen perspective about, yeah, knowing that you can do something and finding a lot of enjoyment in the movement.

Yeah, something that was said to me while I was in the creek was, if you're not having fun is it worth it? And I feel like that's been something I've been thinking about a lot since then. And not feeling like I need to pressure myself to do things or finish climbs or whatever else in life just because there's some weird internal or external pressure to do so like  If it's not bringing me joy, like why do I need to force myself to do certain things? 

Sometimes the type 2 fun for sure, sometimes it's  Sometimes I can  Be okay with type 2 fun. But when it comes to climbing I think i'm just like at a point My other friend was just saying this the other day too. She's like i'm at a point where Like I just like only want to climb if i'm having fun Like I don't want to be miserable climbing and I feel that same way and I like I think I feel especially feel that way with sport climbing  Because it's like my first love with climbing  Like I usually try to make sure that I'm like in a pretty good mental state with it And then i'm like kind to myself when it comes to bouldering like I don't care as much about bouldering and so like sometimes I rage and sometimes i'm like I get in like a bad mental space with it.

But like  with bouldering I feel like I can walk away really easily from it. Whereas like sport climbing  yeah, I don't know. I feel like i'm rambling now. But anyways  I just care about sport, yeah. I care about sport climbing more than bouldering. Why? I feel I feel more, yeah. I it's the rope climbing is how I got into the sport in the first place.

Like, when I first joined the gym I was mostly just doing auto belays, top roping. And then eventually got LEED certified. I didn't really start bouldering until Six months in and then even then like still not really doing it I didn't really start bouldering a lot until I went bouldering outside for the first time which was at color the crag and horse pens It was the first one in 2017 That was my first time bouldering outside And I had so much fun, but I feel like a lot of it was like hanging out with people So I like bouldering for the social aspect of it  And then I also started bouldering more back in 2019 to get better with more powerful and dynamic movement  so that I could get better as a sport climber like I feel like I boulder  For the that social aspect and just to be a more well rounded climber and to like work on certain techniques And also because it is in some ways more accessible like I can do it by myself.

I don't need a partner and everything but Yeah, I think that like  the headspace that I get in when i'm sport climbing You it's just very different. Like I like like being by myself on the wall in some ways, like really high up.  I like,  like hearing my breathing. I like,  yeah, I don't know.

There's just something about sport climbing. That's a lot different than bouldering. It feels like more relaxing to me, even though sometimes I do like hard sport climbing too. So sometimes it's stressful.  But definitely like the views and the endurance aspect and just like seeing really  big like lines that are like aesthetically pleasing on the wall and have really cool features.

Yeah, I don't know. It just feels way more rewarding than sending a boulder to me.  Yeah, I understand that in the sense of you had mentioned it was your first primary style. My first primary style was bouldering and most recent, I've always, I guess I've started, when I started projecting, it was bouldering.

It's been a little bit more recent since I've started a project sport climbing last, basically last year. And now I'm obsessed. Like I like projecting sport climbing now, but when I had started, it was always about and I still feel this way about bouldering to this day. Sometimes like I've not sometimes a good amount of times I'll go to a project.

Alone and just cool, I'm free this day. Okay. I don't have any partners to say that's okay. I'm going to go to my project and just have come out of those sessions with some, like a feeling of making progress. Also, sometimes a feeling of I really could use a partner right now. And I'm beating my head against the wall, not figuring this out, but because it was my first style, I feel like  I, there's something about, there's something motivating to me about.

Continuing to do stuff harder, bouldering wise so I was hearing you say that from a sport climbing perspective of, because you had started as a rope climber, it's something that matters to you to progress in that way versus bouldering is just like a social thing. So that's some good insight for you. 

Yeah. Even though I feel like I was still been progressing with bouldering too. Like I still like bouldering. Like some of my friends are like, Oh, you don't bouldering. And I'm just like,  I'm like, I like sport climbing way more, but part of it is also if I don't prioritize sport climbing, I'm not going to get back to that same endurance that I used to have when I was climbing in Chicago and the gyms, like four times a week.

Like it's really hard to rope train in Vegas because we don't really have a solid rope gym Like there are a few but the walls are short and  to get outside after work, especially with the temps and like the rain and having a partner and Approaches like it's really hard to do volume and then I also Again, like I don't like getting to that place where I feel selfish and where i'm like very focused on my goals with climbing which I feel like if I'm trying to do volume I get into that space where I'm like,  Like we need I need to do this and then it becomes all about like me and what I need and I don't yeah, I don't like taking control of a climbing session and asking people to constantly do things Just for me  Unless they also are trying to do a volume day, then it's a little bit different.

But it's just way more coordination if i'm trying to like also boulder at the same time. So  I feel like in the last  year, I guess since Last year was like  march. I spent like almost the entire month sport climbing.  And I feel since then I've just been like, okay, I really need to like, be more intentional about like, where, how I'm spending my time climbing  when I'm home, because if I don't make time for sport climbing, I'm going to keep feeling like shit on the wall.

And I don't like that. I think that's why that no in November, it was like, that trip was like hard for me. Cause I was just like, I'm like, I hate feeling like this when I'm sport climbing, like I hate feeling like I'm struggling on every move. Like I can't. These moves aren't hard, but they just feel so hard because they have no endurance and like I want to get back to the point where I have Endurance where like I can just focus on the movement and not like holy shit I'm pumped and I feel like i'm gonna fly off the wall at any second

How has being filipino shaped you as a rock climber?  I feel like in general  The way it's impacted me as a person and how that affects me as a climber is I'm very Like family and community oriented. And I'm constantly thinking of like how to  Be hospitable, I guess like I feel like that's what like Filipinos are like known for like their hospitality and everything, like we have that Kapwa mentality like really strong sense of kindred ship and Like taking care of our community and I definitely saw a lot of that growing up through my mom  And through the story she told me Of my grandpa when I was growing up just like a lot of stories of like, how kind and generous my grandpa was, like he adopted 10 kids, like there's already 8 of them and he adopted 10 of them, like most of which are like her cousins, and family members that like their families couldn't really afford to take care of but, just doing that when you already have 8 kids of your own is just can't even think of that like I can't even imagine having one,  yeah stories like that and then seeing how like how much my mom thought of other people like outside of just like my myself and my brother but Seeing how much she always tried to take care of people around her whether that was like I remember this one time where I was in the car with her My mom's a real estate agent.

So I used to drive around with her a lot You And there was this one time there was like this woman like walking with her groceries Like she's an older woman and my mom just offered to drive her to her house  And I feel like that was like, yeah, I feel like that was something that's always stuck with me but also just like constantly hearing of like my mom trying to provide for her family back home like cooking meals and sharing food with like family friends and just Constantly making sure that She can help  People around her in any way possible and I think that also like definitely bleeds into like her real estate work like she's always willing to offer like free consultation services and talk to people about like buying homes or just  stuff related to that field and  Yeah, I feel like i'm just that's my like direct relation To that filipino like complementality in terms of taking care of your community You But I definitely feel like that's affected me as a person and the types of spaces that I find myself in I also come from a divorced family so my family you know  who I like the family that I had access to Definitely fluctuated throughout my childhood considering like most of my mom's families in the philippines And then after my parents got divorced, like I didn't see My dad's side of the family for a long time.

So I feel like going into like high school and college You  I always was like searching for that sense of community and  wanting to I don't know, care for a group or care for like my community. But like the first step was like finding community that I felt comfortable with. So like in college, that was  like my Filipino organization.

Then I was really involved with all of the programming with that. I was like, I coordinated cultural dances. And that was like my whole life before I started climbing. A lot of things that I feel like I cared about in terms of like community, social justice, the environment. A lot of those things merged when it came to climbing, which was really nice.

And  I  Like this was the first sport where I really dove into it and committed myself to definitely the longest standing hobby or sport that I've participated in. And it's like now, like where my whole life revolves around it. So  to be able to find like minded people that also climb was for one, I didn't know that was possible, in the climbing community until.

More affinity spaces started showing up  and climbing festivals and all of these groups started forming. So do you remember, I started following Brown Girls Climb and then they had helped start Color the Crag and then I found myself there and then Sending in Color started like after, soon after the second year of Color the Crag.

Or was it the first year? After the first year of sending, of Color the Crag, sending in color started, I think, January like 2018, which is like the P the POC group in Chicago. And I feel like the more that I found like minded people  in the climbing space, the more I wanted to like,  also invest my time in that and make sure that I'm like, Taking care of like my community in these spaces as well.

But yeah, it's been Really great to see that all these things that like I personally care about can be integrated into climbing  But yeah, I feel like because of the sport is such like it's such an intimate sport like  you  Need support from other people like you need to feel safe around other people It's such a vulnerable experience and like we're constantly surrounding ourselves with like dangerous things.

So to be in a space where you feel safe where like you feel like you can completely be yourself you can express your Insecurities, you can have hard conversations And criticize or give feedback or just like advocate for yourself and your needs and Like it's so much easier to do that in a space where you feel completely accepted represented and feel safe and welcomed and that's why these affinity spaces are so important to me because You're able to do your best and feel your safest when These spaces are available  but You  Yeah, so I feel like,  I guess that's like the biggest thing, just like that drive for like community or like seeking the community for myself and then also like wanting to take care of it  is, to me, is like a, I feel like a very Filipino thing, like what you watch TV and someone looks Filipino and like your parents or your tita or tita are like, Oh, they're Filipino.

Huh? It's we're constantly looking for ourselves represented in places.  And yeah, like it's some trivial things like that but then  when it comes to the people that you're like  surrounding yourself with and spending so much time with  and doing things like climbing with like I feel like it's so much more It's so much more special in those in these spaces like I cherish my like friendships that I have with my filipino like with other filipino climbers like it's Very different than just climbing with any other like group of asians I think because we have such a  unique history and shared, just like shared oppression of our people.

And  like the generational trauma that a lot of us share from like having Filipino immigrant first generation parents. It's  yeah, it's,  I feel like those friendships, I definitely pour a little bit more love into because they just mean so much more to me.  Yeah.  That's a very beautiful answer.

You were, I was hearing you say that you Yourself experience, Kapua, it's a big value of yours, this feeling of kindred and it, as a result of that, almost you find spaces where you feel safe and then you care or tend to those spaces. And as just someone who's met you, it's pretty clear that's something that's so important to you.

Like you you're constantly hyping up affinity groups that are going out and elevating other people. You've connected me with some people. In Red Rocks, like people seems to be a very big thing for you. And I think that is also a very Filipino trait to carry of caring for Kapwa, like caring for your fellow, fellow Filipinos.

Yeah, first off, I just want to say thank you for doing that. It's so rad that you're such a positive kind of role in, in the Filipino climate community. The end. Even larger than that, like Brown Girls Climb and all those other things, but yeah, I just want to say your presence on this podcast is well appreciated.

And yeah, I I wanted to also say something about the seeing Filipinos at the crag. Like I think in episode three, Jerry had joked, we had Jerry had joked that. Who's gonna say it first? Who's gonna say it first? And then Ivan said it. Ivan's Oh, are you Filipino? And of course Jared was like, Why, yes, I am.

That's how Ivan approached us since  then. Just straight up asking, Are you Filipino?  Yeah. I'm like, we follow each other.  Oh, so you guys had run into each other. It was not a meetup. No, we just know each other on Instagram, and we've messaged before. Amazing. And he's been like, oh yeah, if you're ever in St.

George, or if you're ever in Red Rock. We've never met before in person, but I recognized him. Once he said his name, I was like, oh yeah, I know you. I do. It's funny, one of the people that I climbed with in the Red he was with us this trip, but he was there last April as well. His partner was like, Oh yeah, Christian's Filipino.

And I was like, yeah, I know.  And then I was like he looks like that. And his name's Christian. Obviously, he's obviously, yeah. I was like, my name's Christine and I look like this. Yeah, Spanish last name too, like checks out. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think also with the Sorry, I just thought about this when you were yeah responding to what I was saying about like how being filipino impacts me I like  I know I like I feel like I'm in these spaces a lot and I like Try to take up some leadership roles and drive You  Some of these spaces a lot, but like I used to like really not be able to do any public Speaking or just talking in general used to freak me out  But I think like I was bullied a lot when I was growing up Just the schools that I went to were just like toxic and like kids are mean But I also moved a lot because my mom was a real estate agent.

So I was always like the new kid. I was also like always the shortest person and I don't know, I was bullied for like really stupid things, but I think that like constant me, like that anxiety have of wanting to like,  Not just fit it not fit in but just have a space where I feel safe and feel like accepted and loved and supported  Like it's something that I always looked for  and so That's like also something that really drives me is just like wanting to make sure that other people have a space where they can come to and feel welcomed and  Yeah, try to foster a space where people can just come and be themselves But yeah, I think that's like also been like a big thing for me.

Just creating, finding the spaces that then you want to foster. I think that it makes a lot of sense and almost To me, I think the word  community as well gets thrown around a lot. And the way you describe I always think about what the heck is actually community given that so many people dubbed the term climbing community who are we talking about specifically, just the way you put it around, the spaces where I feel safe and that I.

naturally tend to as well, to further its safety or to continue to foster that safety. To me, that is community, and yeah, I just love the way you Nailed it there. What do you want to say to other Filipino climbers? 

Nothing. What's up? 

Let's climb, let's eat.  I'm like, wow. I don't know. It's a lot. I would, there's a lot I could say.  Yeah. I don't  know. I don't know what I'd say. I was talking to Jerry when I was in the creek and I was like, Jerry, let's convince Tim to like, do a meetup somewhere. Ha.  Like a rock and rice meetup?  Yeah.

Or just a meetup.  Yeah. Like a rock and, yeah, or just, that's been my dream, Filipino climbing meetup. But, Yeah. I'm like, It's been my dream too. Which like, doesn't have to be anything formal. They do that Filipino up in the Bay Area. Yeah. But,  yeah, I feel like any time I meet other Filipino climbers, which I meet a lot of them in Vegas because there are just so many Filipinos here.

It's just,  I don't know. Yeah, it just hits different.  Yeah, you wrote that too on your Instagram, it hits different.  It's dis. Ha. I know. I'm climbing with my fellow kappa, it hits different. Yeah, it is something that I'd love to do someday when I have more sort of capacity and a headspace for it, but it would, it'd be awesome to put on like a rock and rice meetup.

Have some cool, cute merch and yeah. Have my friends make food, so anyway, you recently got accepted on a BIPOC scholarship for the SPI course. So for listeners, the SPI course is single pitch instructor. It's  certified by the American Mountain Guides Association. Typically, if you want to become a climbing guide, this is and teach single pitch outdoors.

This is the certification that you get. So this is awesome. It's awesome that you got the BIPOC scholarship fund for the SPI course, or was it the women's fund? I know we talked about this before. I got accepted to both. Clarify that for me. Yeah, I got accepted to both, which is like really cool.

And it's nice that I was able to choose, but I only applied for the women's one as a backup, but. Ideally I wanted to do the BIPOC one, I think in general I tend to be more comfortable in PLC based spaces than solely women's one women's spaces since like historically a lot of women's spaces tend to be more white which isn't always the case with the SPI courses I think one of the ones they did here actually only two out of ten of the women were white, which was cool so yeah.

Yeah, but yeah, the timing and the location of the BIPOC one also just worked out better for me. It's in June It's in Denver. I can drive there  September is just would be really hard. I already have a few things planned for that month  And it's in North Carolina, which I'm like, I don't really want to fly all the way over there but yeah, I found out that I actually know two of the people that are in my course, which is really cool.

And I'm excited. I'm spending like two weeks in Denver slash Boulder  and taking that second week off when I have the course for three days, like taking that entire week off just to like climb and hang and explore the city a little bit more. Cause every time I've gone, it's been for like a wedding or just like driving through on road trips.

I've never really gotten to explore Denver, Boulder too much. It's really great to, that you have this opportunity to do this course. I recently did my SPI. Mammoth, or I should say, I took my SPI course. Yeah I've yet to do my exam, but I took the course. Yeah, it was a, on a whim. I've, I thought that I thought to myself that I wanted to at least have the skills of an SPI instructor, even if I don't decide to do the exam or pursue the guide, because the prereqs are pretty, basically like 40 tried routes. 

Yeah. I think that's a good learning opportunity in general.  I'm excited to trade notes with you when you come back. You did it in Mammoth? Yeah, it was in, it was three days and it was a lot of content, which we can talk about offline. Happy to share with you, Mikes. Yeah. I'm a little overwhelmed.  Oh my gosh.

Yeah. You got it. There's a lot of info.  Definitely practice your muncher mule overhand knot. Do that way before the course. That's honestly, one of the best knots I've learned since then. It's such a cool knot, especially as a guide. Anchors and knots and like kind of the same thing. I don't plan on guiding as like a profession.

It'll be cool to have it as, as like a backup eventually. And like maybe a retirement gig or something like 20 years later, but I mostly want to do it to be able to. Guide and provide some instruction or do like workshops for affinity spaces and festivals Like that's the main thing and also as a learning opportunity none of my like close friends in vegas are guides And like a few I have one  that is based here But I feel like it would just be good to be able to be a resource for my friends here which would be nice and then  Yeah, I like most of the chat timing i've done is It's in the creek.

So a lot, it's a lot of bolted anchors. So I haven't had to practice gear anchors. So I'm going to be doing that sometime  this week. And I think I'm. Supposed to do some multi pitch on Sunday. Supposed to go do some tunnel vision with a friend.  That's fun. That's exciting. It's cool. I also want to shout out that you do, it's cool that you pursue all styles of climbing.

And maybe as a future episode, we can talk about like how you have, how you find balancing all that. And I have so many problems myself figuring out what to prioritize at any given point in the season. So I can use some of those tips myself, but  it's all great. It's on the back burner. I'm yeah same  It's oh crack climbing is fun being in the creek is always a trip.

And it's like just such so different and I think you yeah get a lot of tools  And new skills that you can use with ropes or with sport climbing or with bouldering like when I got back from the creek I was like sport climbing with Esther and I was like I'm like Esther I keep finding hand jams and finger locks and toe jams I'm like I don't think my brain is out of the creek yet. 

I know. But it's like cool to be able to find that beta.  Yeah, Ivan's listening to this right now and he's excited to hear that we like toe jams and hand cracks and all that. Okay, I don't know if I like, I don't know if I like,  I still don't know exactly how I feel about crack climbing. I want to get better at it.

That's the thing that I, that's the thing with climbing. It's you're not good at something yet. Keep doing it.  Is there any final words you want to leave for the listeners? I guess like thinking back to what you were saying is there anything I want to say to you, Filipino climbers, I guess this doesn't, I guess this does apply to like just Filipino climbers, but I think I may, I probably said this in the last interview, but. 

Something that always resonates in my head or resounds in my head is our places in the struggle Like our people have been oppressed for so long and we have a shared history of that With  other groups of people in other communities And that includes palestine so Yeah you  know have conversations with people around you about why it's important to Support  Freeing Palestine and what's going on over in Gaza right now and just being aware of what's happening and like how we have a Shared connection and role in that  Yeah, I was gonna say Trisha who is one of the organizers for climb for climbers for Palestine  I didn't realize this before I met her, but she's Filipino. 

Oh shit. I met up with her when we were when she was in  Red Rocks for the meetups here and they were here with their partner.  Yeah. I didn't realize she was Filipino until we met up.  I like that you end the interview with this cause I don't know what other guests has mentioned what's going on in Gaza.

Just for the listeners, be aware, there's some great climbing documentaries too about, Resistance is a really good one to watch just to learn about, the climbers who do live in Palestine with their daily experiences are like, they, the Climb for Palestine effort just ended recently, and that's been a good one to, to plug into, but I think there's some great climbing documentaries too about, Resistance is a really good one to watch just to learn about, You know, the climbers who do live in Palestine with their daily experiences are like they, the climb for Palestine effort just ended recently.

And that's been a good one to plug into, but yeah, just thanks for making a note on that. And Christine much appreciated. This was really great.  Yeah, again. 

Mhm.