Rock and Rice
Where Filipino climbers share their story.
Logo: Pat Palacio
Music: Bruiser by Winchip
Rock and Rice
EP 09: Jo Ala — founding Vertex Bouldering, splitting time between Iloilo and Manila, and smelling the roses
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Jo
Jo is an overall badass.
An environmental lawyer who practices in Australia and Philippines. A former Philippines comp climber. Has put down outdoor 7c's/5.12d's. And just started a state-of-the-art bouldering gym in Iloilo.
When I visited Iloilo in February, she was projecting Engagement — Igbaras’s 8b/5.13d that’s a long, beautiful endurance line. She recently sent Ben & Be, a 7c/5.12d.
Her and her partner, JJ, opened up Vertex Bouldering — Iloilo’s state of the art climbing gym. Her goal is to bring that state of the art climbing gym to Iloilo.
In this episode, she talks about
- what she’s learned after starting Vertex
- shifting her perspective on training for projects
- how she deals with failure
- how she’s learned to separate her sense of self from her accomplishments.
These days, she’s stopping to smell the roses. 🌹
Links
Shoutouts to Power Up Tandangsora for being her home gym!
Welcome to rock and rice. I'm your host, Tim Casasola, and today I'm not reporting to you from LA, I'm reporting to you from Squamish, British Columbia! It's really fucking awesome here. I won't share that much about my trip. You can follow me on Instagram if you want to know what I'm up to here. But in short, it's been really fun.
The climbing here is so this is my third time. I come every summer. And the climbing here is so great. It's so accessible. It's You drive five minutes to get to the crag, hike in as short as five minutes and get to some world class bouldering, sport climbing, multi pitch climbing, you name it. The one thing I'll say about Squamish, Andaming Filipinos dito!
There's a lot of Filipinos here, and there's a lot of Filipinos in Vancouver, there's a lot of Filipinos in Squamish, there's a decent amount in Whistler. And that's been the most interesting thing to me about this trip. It's gotten me to, to sort of reflect on, um, you know, what, what brought us out here and, and why is there a lot of Filipinos?
Why are there a lot of Filipinos out here? Perhaps we're just all over the West Coast, um, but I'm sure there are some sort of deeper sociological reasons. And, yeah, just a random kind of thought. Today we're not really talking about, uh, why there's tons of Filipinos in Squamish. We're gonna talk to one of my friends, Joe R.
Awa. How I met Joe. I went to the Philippines, uh, last January and February, doing some work with, uh, Global Climbing Initiative, which, um, you know, I'm very fortunate to have worked with them to work with. Uh, and learn from the community, the climbing communities out in the Philippines. Uh, but I'd met Joe because I was in Manila and looking to climb in Montalban, a crack hour and a half from Manila.
Uh, my friend Jobs connects me to Joe, Joe picks me, uh, I go to Joe's place, um, in Quezon City and we carpool together. Joe basically kind of opens up to me about her, her, her life story. Um, and when I learned more about Joe, I learned that, you know, she's basically a badass. She's an environmental lawyer who can practice law in Australia and in the Philippines.
She's a former Philippines, I shouldn't say former because she's kind of still competing, but she was doing a lot of, um, competition climbing for the Philippines and has, she's also well experienced as a sport climber outside. There, she's climbed. Places like Thailand, but also, um, has sent some really notable roots here in the Philippines.
Um, one of them, including Benin Bay, which is a seven C or five 12 D. Uh, when I had visited Ilo, Ilo, um, and met the climbers there, which by the way, status to Ilo Ilo climbing community there, there's such an awesome group. Um, so welcoming. And so just like stoked about climbing. Um, I learned that Jo from the, just kind of the community that she was projecting engagement, which engagement is the long, beautiful endurance line.
I say the, like the longest line in Yggdrasil, Yggdrasil's main crag. It's an 8B or 513D. So she was working engagement and that's been a long term project of hers. And, um, when we had carpooled together, uh, to Montalban, we were working Django, which Django is an 8a or a 513b, um, out in Montalban, um, it was, it was great to work engagement with Joe and Jobs and, um, our friend Daniel, who I'll do, uh, we also have an interview coming up with.
Um, Django is, it's really fun, it's really bolder, it's really great. Anyway, enjoy this conversation with Jo. She's going to talk about what she's learned after starting her text bouldering, shifting her perspective on training for projects, how she deals with failure. And how she's learned to separate her sense of self from her accomplishments.
Uh, these days she's smelling the roses. Last, I want to say that we have a Patreon. So we just launched this. If you like the show, I ask you to consider becoming a patron. Why? Well, getting gear in the Philippines is really hard. Um, and it's even harder if you're a climber, that's not in Manila. Um, so. To become a patron, all you have to do is donate, uh, anything between a dollar, or fifty pesos, to ten dollars, to five hundred pesos.
Or twenty five dollars, which is, uh, twelve fifty pesos, a month. Um, and in your money, uh, basically 60 percent of your patronage goes towards Girbalik Bayan, to Cebu Rock Climbing Community, Ilo Rock Climbing Community, and Cagayan da Oro, Cagayan da Oro Rock Climbing Community. And 40 percent of your patronage goes back to the show.
You can be a patron for just as low as a dollar per month. At patreon. com slash rock and rice that's patreon. com slash rock and rice. Enjoy the show
What's up joe, how are you doing today? Hi, jim I'm good. I have my coffee um still a lot of work to do today, but Yeah, it's nice to see you. Nice to talk to you today. Yeah, you've recently opened up a gym. How's that been? Yes, I just opened up Vertex Bouldering in Iloilo. On June 29, we opened our doors to walk ins.
It's been crazy busy. We've had loads of people coming to the gym. Like, there are days we have 47 walk ins, which is It's a big and happy surprise for us to have so many people come in every day. Yeah. Like we're averaging around 35 people, so exhausting, but a happy kind of exhausting. Yeah. Sounds like a good problem to have.
Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I, I guess for the listeners, obviously for Iloilo, they're quite familiar with the gyms that have been popping up here and there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One, you know, there was, there was one that a lot of folks climbed at and then now there's the pump and now there's Vertex, maybe share a little bit about the, maybe your experience with the climbing gyms in Nilo Yilo and what led you and, um, you and your partner, I think, right?
You and your partner open up the gym. Yeah, me and JJ. Yeah, you and JJ. What led you guys to opening it, uh, just leading up to today? So, I was based in Manila for the longest time, since college. And that's where I started climbing back in 2013. Um, that's where I grew as a climber in Manila. Um, Up till 2016, before climbing Cedro, Manila, the gyms were pretty, how do you call it, underground, not mainstream, um, yeah, like, Power Up Tandang Sora was, is my home gym, I still think of it as my home gym, um, but it was You know, like, Underground 30, you have these, um, eccentric people, um, yeah, it wasn't a mainstream thing until maybe, well, let's say Climb Central opened in 2016, and then Beehive opened in 2019.
2019? Yeah, 2019. And that's only, like, when gyms started looking nicer. A lot of people started climbing. Um, yeah, so, the movement towards nicer climbing gyms started in Manila. And that's where, like, I started improving as a competition climber, maybe. Cause, before that, old school climbing was, yeah, you know, the old school climbing type, where non dynamic movements.
That was mainly my style. Yeah. Um, outdoor, outdoor climbing. So yeah, nicer gyms started popping up in Metro Manila. Um, I started improving as a competition climber because of that. And then during the pandemic, I moved back to Iloilo just for like mental health, because the province was just less, more, it had less restrictions compared to Metro Manila.
Yeah, and I wasn't, like, I wasn't in a good mental space when I was in Metro Manila, like, being closed up in my condo the entire year. It just wasn't good for, yeah, for your mental health. So I moved back to the province. My mom is originally from here. I studied my high school here. So, I was like, yeah, let's just move back to the province.
So, in 2021, I moved back here. Okay. And yeah, since there were lesser strict shots, the gyms were open, like the gym was open. There was only one gym, climbing gym at the time that was Adventure Central. And yeah, um, I got to know the community here. Um, that this is where I met my partner, JJ. And then, yeah, um, we, yeah, I helped like the facilities here were pretty old school also during the time when I visited when I first arrived, the gym was pretty old.
Old school, I would say. So I bought holds, I talked to the owner, I helped root set. Like new roots. Um. I wanted to help improve climbing in Iloilo at the time. Um, yeah, the community was really fun. I really like, um, like the people who were climbing at the time, um, were really into like more of socializing, um, yeah, having a good time.
So there was just a number of people who wanted to get strong, wanted to Um, climb hard. And then one of those were like JJ and then let's say Wilson. Wilson joined my cult of like people who wanted to get stronger. Wilson. I think the, the counterculture of people who wanted to get stronger at Ilila. Yeah.
But it was like a fun kind of, like, we would train and then we would have, like, join the socials after. There's Mike and Wilson, yeah. Um, after the pandemic, some things died down from Adventure Central. I think some management issues that they didn't really take care of the gym that much. So, yeah, like, route setting happened less frequently.
And people found it frustrating, like, it's been so long and there are no new routes. But. So yeah, another gym opened up in Iloilo, um, fairly recently also. Um, but it was something different from what JJ and I had envisioned for a gym. We wanted it somewhere accessible. We wanted it somewhere, um, somewhere near the city.
And yeah, so my envisionment for a new climbing gym was something which would attract a lot of new climbers. Somewhere which, um, new climbers would feel welcome because right now, I think less than 1 percent know what bouldering is in Ilo Ilo. Wow. Yeah, less than 1 percent of the population and we have like 500, 000 people here in Ilo Ilo.
I would say less than 1 percent of people know what bouldering is. So, what Vertex, what me and JJ envisioned for Vertex was it would be a gym. Yeah. Yeah. Which would make climbing more mainstream in Iloilo. We have such wonderful crags here. We have Dingle, we have Igbaras, of course, and there's so much to explore Bahir.
So, like, why not try and make it more mainstream for people to discover the sport? So, yeah, it just so happened that we were in the, like, 2022, we were already, like, talking, Let's set up a gym. Let's set up a nice place where people, let's set up an Instagrammable space, a space where beginners would feel welcome, a space which is accessible, a space which is really, you really nice to look at where people can see, wow, this is a world class gym.
Like, it's like I'm climbing abroad. So Vertex was, um, so that was the envisionment for Vertex. Um, and I recall, like, let's start, I recall saying to JGina, let's set our standards high. Let's find a really good place. And in 2023, Um, I was, uh, I just got back from my master's in Australia. I studied my master's of law in Australia in 2023.
And I, um, yeah, I graduated from that in 2023. I came back to Iloilo. And we saw, um, a car showroom, an empty car showroom. Actually, it was something we were eyeing in 2022. We would always pass by it and we were like, Oh, that would make a good gym. Yeah. Just like an idea. Yeah, just like random something to, yeah, just randomly thinking, but there was never anything indicating that it was for rent or for sale.
Only in 2023, we passed by the showroom, the car showroom, and we were, we saw the for rent sign, actually it was July three. So a year ago, we saw the sign like for rent and I was like, stop the car, let's call the number. And immediately the person picked up on the other end, stop the car. We have to check it out.
Yeah, we called the other end. I, we called the number and on the other end, they were like, yeah, just go in. The caretaker's there. Check it out. So yeah, we went down, we were able to go inside and we were like, Oh, this is the perfect height. Like if we remove the ceilings, if we, uh, If we fixed everything up, it would be the perfect height for a bouldering gym and the perfect size also.
Imagine that, like a gym which everyone could see when they would pass by. And for context, it's in the middle of the city. It's right next to SM City Iloilo, where like thousands of people go daily. It's near, it's right next to Plazuela, so another shopping center. It's right next to SNR, for those who are familiar with SNR.
The SNR shopping like big wholesale items. It's near schools. It's near hospitals. It's in the heart of this I am not enough like not necessarily the heart, but it's in the center of the city where thousands of people pass by every day and Yeah, so it was the perfect spot to set up a gym and We found investors to, who also share the same vision and yeah, I, I think by investors all the time, like without them, Vertex wouldn't be possible because when we started, we barely had anything, like we had our savings, but yeah, we had that vision for Vertex and we knew we didn't want to settle for anything less.
And it was with our investors, like we were able to achieve that. And because they had the same vision for bringing quality, quality gyms to the province. Like I was mentioning earlier that it was only in 2016 that quality, quality gyms started popping up in Metro Manila. Yeah, which is crazy because that's like not that long ago.
Not that long ago. Yeah. With Beehive 2019. That's when like, um, big holes, new macros, um, nice clean gyms started popping up. And now it's time for that to start going to the provinces and we're starting that movement with Free Text. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. That's really inspiring. I want to share a little bit about my experience in Iloilo and put that as a question back to you.
So visiting Iloilo, got to see, got to visit the pump and meet a lot of the folks from that gym and Iloilo climate community, which was great. And then I came across the Iloilo. Vertex. Like I, I, I got dinner somewhere. I think it was Juergen. Uh, Juergen and Caho took us out to dinner near where Vertex was.
Me, he took up me, Veronica, and Al. And we saw Vertex and we were like, damn, there's a gym opening up here. Um, yeah. And I don't know, I think it's like really reflective of the I'm excited to see how Ilo Ilo's climbing, um, evolves just by virtue of a really accessible bouldering gym in the, like you said, middle of the city there.
Do you ever think about that? Do you ever think that, like, wow, we are here at the right time and, uh, this is, this is such a big, um, opportunity for, for climbing here in Ilo Ilo? Yeah. Climbing is growing and I keep telling my partners that we're lucky that climbing is growing. Um, already had a head start climbing up popular in, in, is getting popular in Manila.
Just so you know, there are two new gyms, which, um, two new gyms. There's Beehive Green Hills was just open. So congratulations to them. And there's Climb Central's Boulder World PH, which is opening hopefully very soon. So yeah, there are two new gyms opening, which is pretty good. Um, but yeah, in, in Iloilo, we didn't have that kind of a head start.
We didn't have. Like, not a lot of people knew what climbing was, and from the get go, Vertex, so, um, we took on Sophie, um, she's another of our partners, so me and JG, we knew we needed someone else to help us with setting up the gym, um, we knew that if it was just the two of us, we might just, like, fight, and it's a normal thing when you're setting up a business, and we needed someone to be, like, the middle ground who would help us make decisions, and it's easier to make decisions when you're three, so, like, for example, JG and I don't agree on something.
We would pass it to Sophie like Sophie, what's your decision? Because she'd be the deciding factor. I love that. And yeah It's helped us keep us on the ground and like help us avert a lot of arguments about things We don't agree on. Yeah. For the gym, of course. Yeah, that's really helped me I think. Shout out to Sophie too for being a partner in.
Yeah. You guys for being so mature about everything. Yeah Uh huh. Is Sophie also from Iloilo? Yep. Yeah, she is from Iloilo. She also studied in Manila and she also saw like the quality of gyms and create like level up in Manila and also had the same vision for Virtex and that's why we took her on. That's awesome.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, what was I saying? Yeah. Yeah. So from the get go, we already knew that we had our work put up for us. We had to introduce bouldering as a sport. We already knew that we had to do the marketing. We had to do the work. And that's what we're doing now. Like Vertex, Um, we were hosting bouldering one on one classes or beginner classes just so people know what bouldering is.
We boost our posts. We really do the marketing. We welcome people. We're so, um, we make sure the crew we hired are very friendly. They go around, they talk to the other climbers, they help the other climbers, they share, they, like, it was part of their contract that they be able to share their passion for climbing.
And that's what they're doing now, and a lot of people, um, are trying the sport, are enjoying the sport, are finding that, um, it's such a welcoming, um, place, especially in Vertex. It's a welcoming place for beginners. And we want to make sure that no beginner is left behind. Um, when we see them struggling, like, hey, you want help with that problem?
We cheer them on when they reach the top. Um, and, um, We can see like people really appreciate that. Um, and they keep coming back. Yeah, so we still have our work cut out for us. That's what I have to say. Like, it's not like climbing hasn't grown yet. You know, but Vertex is making that happen. Like the effort, like just the level of effort.
You can see my crew and my team every day, like marketing, holding classes, like, Um, my voice is a bit raspy because I held a class yesterday. So yeah, when I flew in from Manila and I hosted a class, um, and that's going to keep happening. Um, yeah, just, I just like to like commend my team for putting in all that effort, especially my, my marketing team, which is basically Chelsea, Chelsea and me working together.
Um, yeah, Chelsea and me, we work together to make sure that our posts, um, we have enough event. It's, we have, um, we're targeting beginners, trying to, trying to, um, encourage them to keep, to keep coming back to Vertex so that we can show them our passion for the sport and what bouldering is. Yeah. And so it takes a lot of effort.
It is taking a lot of effort, but yeah, if you have that vision of growing, climbing and you know, you have to, you have to work for it, you have to work towards it, you have to put in the work and. Yeah. Kudos to my team. They're doing so well, like doing so well as a PR, especially Wilson. He's such a PR person.
A lot of people feel so welcome when he, whenever he's on duty. Also Giselle, she's such a great manager. Um, yeah, she brings in so many people and a lot of people feel so welcome when they enter Vertix. And yeah, I think that's the reason why a lot of people keep check coming back. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
That's amazing. I, well, shout outs to Wilson and, uh, Chelsea and Giselle and also Sophie. It sounds like you have an incredible team behind you. I guess my last question, uh, about Vertex specifically, before we talk about you is, um, what is, I mean, you're, I guess by trade, a lawyer. What have, what would you tell yourself, uh, you know, what's the one thing you'd have told your younger self before?
Starting this gym, right? Like that's, that's an entrepreneurial endeavor and that's like business skills, and that's also taking your skills about climbing and social media, a bunch of different stuff. Um, yeah. What was that transition like to managing this? And also, you know, what would, what would you have told yourself now that you're here now?
Um, but I would have told myself to just trust the timing of things. It was pretty early on that. I already knew I wanted to open, open up my own gym, but I think everything happened for a reason. Um, and I would have told myself not to worry about things too much because things just I have this belief that if you put your intention out there to the universe and if it's meant for you, things will fall together.
And that's what's been happening with Vertex and even, um, working as a lawyer because Everything just kind of fell together. Like I, right now I'm still working as a lawyer. I work for an invent, I work as an environmental lawyer and they've been giving me the flexibility to start up my business. So I do have days where I work from home a lot.
Um, I just have to be able to do my work, which it was difficult last month. Sorry to my bosses, but it was difficult for me to do last month, especially during the startup. I make sure to divide. Like give sufficient attention to my work. And also, um, I'm learning to, um, designate and delegate work for Vertex so that I can focus on growing, growing my business.
So yeah, everything just kind of fell into place that I was able to work from home. Um, I was able to travel to Iloilo a lot. It was the timing of things that, I, I had all the right connections at the right time. Um, I was able to get the right partners at the right time. Um, the timing of things was just perfect.
And it was a time that a lot of people started getting interested into climbing or looking in Iloilo. It's the right time. Then a lot of people are looking for new hobbies, things to do other than go to the mall or go out drinking on a weekend. So, yeah. So. Yeah. Trust the timing of things and just believe that when something's meant for you, things just fall together.
Wow. Yeah. Trust the timing of things and, you know, put your intentions out there. Vertex seems like a manifestation of that. What you and JJ want, so congratulations. It was, it's, it's, and like I'm so happy I took on Sophie. 'cause she also believes in manifesting and I believe like she has these strong manifesting skills.
Aw. Like she wins stuff a lot. , because she manifest it. Sophie's a winner. Sophie's a winner. Yeah. Such a great person to have on the team. Mm. Anyway. Yeah. That's great. Well, I, I want to shift gears into talking about you as well. You as a climber and you as, um, just Joe, um, wait, we, you and I first got connected through jobs.
So jobs is a climber based on Manila, a mutual friend of ours. He's a good friend of yours and, uh, One of my first friends in climbing. What, one of your first friends in climbing? Yeah, Jopps. Shout out to Jopps. Unfortunately. I know. Shout out to Jopps. Shout out. Unfortunately, he's one of my friends. Sorry, Jopps.
Unfortunately, we're your friends. He just, he just sends me random messages about goats. That's nice. I texted Jopps, actually, because we're, Kayla and I are actually going to visit the Philippines but we were asking Jopps, uh, This is a tangent, but we were asking him about, uh, Baler, because my girlfriend surfs and I occasionally surf.
Yeah, I love Baler. Because I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to hurt myself that much. Um, we were asking him for tips about Baler and he dropped, like, 20, uh, long, thoughtful, you know, text messages, videos. He talked about the crag that's two hours away. Yeah, Oh, that's awesome. We were, Kayla and I were like sold.
Let's go. Um, yeah, no, I love Balear too. Like we would go to Balear a lot also. Like this is also a tangent, but yeah. I, um, like Jops, uh, Jops and me and a lot of our other friends, like Jerry, Jerry was all pretty strong climbers also. We would always, we would head to Balear before, before the pandemic, almost like once a month or once every other month.
Yeah. So I love Balear so much. I miss it so much. I haven't been able to go since. Um, since the pandemic and since Vertex started, but yeah, I want to go back and yeah, if Jobs didn't tell you, we got during the first month of the pandemic, we got stranded in Balear. Yeah. You told me this actually on the car ride to Montalban, you were like, Oh my gosh, let me tell you about our stranded story.
Yeah, with Jobs, unfortunately. And some other really good friends. We all became really good friends after that month. Yeah. But it was, yeah, a core memory. Core memory. Nothing like getting close while they're being stranded. So, um, yeah. We got connected through Jobs. And I, I remember coming across your Instagram.
Uh, and, uh, And I'll just read the bio. Environmental lawyer, admitted to practice law in Australia and the Philippines, former Philippines comp climber. And I was like, damn, this girl is a badass. Um, you, I, I don't know you super well, but I experienced you to be quite high achieving and just having big goals and going for it.
Um, do you, yeah, why, why is that? Like where, where does that come from in childhood and what makes you think you're, you're that sort of way? Not to ask like a therapy level question, but. Uh, have you thought about that? No, I don't know. I think it's like, I think it's a middle child thing. Yeah. I would always say like, why, why do I always need to be this achieving?
But no, I think it's just a middle child thing. I would always need some middle child thing. Then you have to like, always be as you always have to stand out. But I, but like, seriously, um, I also don't know why. I think it's just built that way, like, um, I always think I had to do something, leave a mark in this world.
Um, I always had big dreams. I don't know why. Um, I would always set my goal, my, like, whenever I have a goal. I'd do everything to reach that. So, like, yeah, I had to go to this school. I had a dream school. I had to do everything in my abilities to go to my dream school, which is Ateneo in Manila. So, I came from the province, right?
So, I was the first among my siblings to go abroad, uh, to go abroad, to go to Manila to study. Um, and yeah, like, I set my goal on that. I wanted to go to my dream school. I did everything I could to get it. I just enjoyed that high, of setting high, really high goals and achieving them. So my next goal was to go to law school, to Ateneo which was one of the top schools at the time.
I set my goal in going to that law school, graduating from that law school, grind, putting in the hard work, doing the grind which is necessary to reach that goal. And I think that's same for Um, Vertex, like setting a really high goal, setting really high standards, doing that grind and achieving it. Like it's a different kind of high which you get from fulfilling those goals.
And yeah, I also got a question like that one day from a friend of mine in TS, like she was telling me like, you've already, like, you've already achieved so much, like, why do you feel a bit, like during, when I was setting up Vertex, I was, Like, ranting a bit, saying, like, I wasn't achieving that much, like, I still feel the need to achieve more.
But it also, like, set me back, like, oh nga no, I've already done these so many things, so like, I can take a step back now, I can, yeah, I can kind of just chill, be happy at where I am, smell the flowers, and yeah, that's where I am right now, like, I have no bigger goals right now. Then, I can say like, I already have Vertex, um, I've already achieved most of what I wanted it to achieve.
Right now, I'm just trying to stop, enjoy, enjoy where I'm at. Yeah, smell the flowers. So yeah, yeah, like Nationals is coming up, and people are saying like, do you wanna, are you aiming for the top spot? And I'm just like, right now I haven't been training, but, um, to be true, yeah, to be honest, like my training has been like construction work, setting up the gym.
Yeah. Um, stripping holds. I haven't been training, but yeah, like I am thinking of stepping back from competing internationally. I am going to compete for fun. So right now, yeah, it's been more of like smelling the flowers and enjoying where I'm at. So I'm no longer at that competitive phase. Where I want to win, win, win, win, win.
Yeah, I'm, yeah. I'm pretty contented where I'm at right now. Love that. Let's see what happens next. Let's see what's in for it next. But I'm just smelling the flowers right now, as you said. Yeah. Just want to enjoy where I'm at. The flowers smell good too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Having a lot of fun with Vertex. Yeah, it's that it's good.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, um, it's good to enjoy where you're at Take once in a while stop to start like for your mental health also. Yeah good to stop where you're at. I love that What do I I guess my thing that I want to maybe first thing I want to discuss with you is you really you recently? Sent Ben and bae.
So, um You I remember when I visited Iloilo, you had mentioned to me, and I actually, I also overheard it from Mike, that you were working, um, It's called engagement. Engagement. Engagement, yeah. Yeah, so you were working on that, that was a long time project of yours, and then, um, Yeah. I find out later you said Venency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was working engagement the entire time I was here, so it's uh, beautiful, long, pumpy line. Nah. Um, one of the hardest moves is at the top. Um, two, two clips away and you have to skip the third clip, this third to the last clip, just because you're too pumped out and it would waste, you'd waste so much energy just clipping.
So yeah, during my last attempt, maybe it was in 2020, 2021 or 2022. I went on my last attempt. I reached the I reached the second to the last hole, second to the last clip. Um, I wasn't able to clip it, but yeah, . Oh no. Um, I do wanna go back to it, but it takes just so much training for endurance, for power, endurance for that route.
But I do wanna get back to it. It's a beautiful line. It's a, yeah, it's a dream project. It's an 8B. And with this new gem, I know I can, I have the facilities to train for it now. And I'm, I'll get, when I get my rhythm back, I'll train for that. But yeah, sending Ben and Bear was a nice, was a nice, um, interlude maybe, as you can consider it.
Um, it's also, it's a shorter, pumpier route. Yeah, what was your question about Ben and Beth? Sorry. Yeah, no, I I went on talking about my project, like, I am, I was like, dreaming of the route again. Yeah. I thought this Instagram caption was great. Are you okay with me reading your caption of the video? Okay, so Ben and Beth, 7C.
First tried this sometime in October 2023. Then would intermittently give it a few tries. I could easily get the concept right. Get by the crux and could connect the moves all the way to the top, but kept making excuses, didn't have enough time to train, too preoccupied to focus on a project, i. e. you're probably opening up a gym, that's my own commentary.
Not strong enough, not enough power endurance, not fit enough, not mentally tough enough. But before my send attempt, uh, Justin Barreja and I were talking about our project. He said that if you knew all the moves, without excuses, dabat. Dabat fight all the way to the top. And that's what, that's what, Was running through my mind after the first crux, after the heavy traverse, after the pumpy sequence before the bucket jug.
While I was taking my time to rest on the bucket jug. While on the tiny button cribs to the anchor, while clipping the anchor. It feels so fulfilling to have fought hard and to have sent. Now time to focus on my next super huge project. Um, so yeah, how did it feel to, to send this after, after you did it?
It was a surprise because I really didn't think, um, I could. Because, yeah, I tried it in October. Um, I found the moves were doable. But it's really heavy and you can ask anyone who's tried it like it's Heavy, it's pumpy and you end on like button button crimps at the top. Um but I knew it was possible, but I said I because i'm used to The process having that process that you train and you send you train for something and you send so you i'm used to always I'm used to to that being my source of confidence that I trained so that I can send.
But this time, yeah, with setting up the gym, with Vertex always being on my mind, and with having a full time job, I just wasn't able to put in the training. I would, I would put out a training plan, but I wasn't able to stick to it. I would never be able to stick to it because of just being too tired, too busy, too exhausted.
And whenever I would give it a go, that's what would run through my mind. Like, I had no, I have no, I had no rigid training prior to trying to send this. I have no, and that kind of, um, that kind of affected me mentally, not having training. But yeah, like when I was talking with JJ before sending it, I realized like, yeah, I can do all the moves.
Uh, I had an attempt where I only had one fall. So like, why am I making so many excuses in my head? Like, why do I keep thinking that it's not possible just because I didn't train? Hmm. Yeah. So JJ and I have this term, the fight mode, like when you're on the wall, you kind of like suck it all out and give it all your grit.
And that's what I did during the send attempt. Like, okay, if I get past the crooks, I'm going to fight all the way to the top. And yeah, like I found myself there on the bucket jug and that seven, um, yeah, eventually sending that seven Z like Ben and Bear, without any rigid training, without any. Any like formal Training program and now I know it's possible.
Like I have that strength in me. Yeah I love that has it influenced. Maybe this is more for the training nerds Like has this experience influenced your thoughts now on training, you know Some people at least from i've when i've met are pretty good at sticking to a plan um, perhaps someone like you and then there's other people who You know Don't really train, but still, um, find ways to approach projects.
How do you, how do you think you'll be approaching your own training moving forward after this experience? Before I think I was one of the people who was very rigid with training. Like I had to be at the gym. I had to train, had to do this. I had to do that. Otherwise they wouldn't have the confidence to, to like compete or to send my projects.
But right now I'm being more flexible, like being more kind to my body. Like, I'm getting older, to be honest. Like, I'm in my thirties. But yeah, learning to rest when you need to rest. It's exhausting running a business also. So yeah, just being more kind to my body right now. If I can't go to the gym and do what I could before, it's okay.
It's a like again, I'm I'm trying to intersect that with what I said earlier. I'm just trying to enjoy the, the, like, smell the flowers and enjoy where I'm at right now. So to be pressuring myself to be training, it's not what I want, it's not what I want to be doing right now. But yeah, with sending Ben and Beo without that training gives me that confidence.
Like I have that inherent strength. I've been, I've been planning for 10 years, like more than 10 years. So there's already that technique. There's already that strength. Um, I just need to. Have that mental, mental toughness, um, which comes with that, that level of experience then. Yeah. Um, I'm not too stressed about training right now.
I know that like whatever happens.
Yeah, um, I just have to be on fight mode. I just have to, yeah, I still love this. Like no matter what, I love this part, whether or not I send. Yeah. I love this notion that you and JJ have a fight mode too. Cause I feel like I can relate on projects where, Um, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I can always come back. I can always do this.
You know, like I'm, I'm probably like attempt to Redpoint attempt to, and I'm like, maybe I don't give it a third, a Redpoint attempt, or when it comes to Boulder project, I'm like, Oh, I can always come back to this, but then I'm like, am I really fucking trying right now? Usually the answer is no. And then it's like, do you really want to try this next time?
And I'm like, yeah. So sometimes I have to like coach myself into. Getting into that fight mode. Um, yeah, that's self taught, right? Right. And I'm so, I, every time I go climbing, I'm always reminded of how important like mindset work is, you know, cause at the end of the day, like the training helps too. And I, I am also a firm believer in training as well.
And I try not to knock people in terms of how they like to approach it versus not. But, like, it does help with the mindset, and, and I think that's really what I love most about this sport, is if you can tick flip the switch, it, it actually, you'll be, you'll surprise yourself. Yeah, I was, cause I was hosting a class the other day, um, yesterday, I was hosting a class, and I always stress that climbing isn't just a physical sport.
So it is a, it is a full body exercise, but it also takes a lot of mental toughness when it comes to the sport, especially like trying, trying to solve boulder problems, to send boulder problems. Yeah, no, hopefully like they understood that or they'll learn to understand that. When they continue their journey with climbing.
Um, that's awesome. Let's go into maybe a little bit more about your, your roots. So the Brock and Rice is also a podcast that explores like Filipino identity, um, among climbers. I'm curious, you know, you mentioned that you're from Iloilo and, uh, are the first of your siblings to go to school in Manila. Um, Yeah.
Yeah. What, what was, what's that like? Like, what's it like growing up in Iloilo and sort of going, becoming a city girl and like, you know, getting your degree in law and how has that shaped who you are today? Um, well, I, most of my childhood was in Papua New Guinea. Oh, got it. Yeah. Even more rural. Yeah. I grew up in Papua New Guinea, and I only moved to ILO for high school.
So the four years of high school I spent here in ilo. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and then moved to Manila for college. 'cause yeah, at the, was my dream school and I want, I really wanted to go there. I was one of the few people in my batch who passed the entrance exam. And, um, yeah, when my parents eventually allowed me to go, I al I also set my.
Like my goal was always at the New York Law School to take up law there. And yeah, it was a big transition moving from the province or like a rural country back into a big city. Like, um, I had to somewhat be like a chameleon. I had to learn to interact with people from different walks of life. And I think that really shaped me, um, as a person.
I can easily interact with anyone. Um, I had a friend who told me like, I get along, I can easily get along with anyone just like, give me a few, like on a one on one, like for example, us Tim, when, when I drove you to Montalban, like, I could, We really got along. Yeah, you just opened up to me with your life story in the car.
Drive. Hey, this is my life story, Tim. I'm like, okay. No, that was great. That was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I think I can either, I can build relations easy and that really helped later on, like looking for investors or yeah, um, finding contacts when building my business. Yeah. All came on really useful in life. And then with law school.
You learn to be really resilient. Um, law school in the Philippines is pretty tough. They'll really, they'll really grind you. They'll really polish you to um, to be mentally and physically resilient. Like you spend hours studying. You get humiliated in class. Um, recitations in class. You get beat down a lot.
Um, in law school, that's where like mental toughness comes in. Like you really have to be strong. You really have to be like after a bad day or a bad exam, cry it off and then come back stronger the next day. So, um, you bring that along with you in life. Yeah. So I think that really shaped who I am and that really also affects my climbing right now.
Yeah, it wasn't a good climbing day. Yeah, it wasn't a good day today. Like, rub it off, come back stronger the next day. And I think that also comes in hand, like, um, uh, it also shapes the way you look at problems. Like, you know now that you shouldn't wallow in despair when a problem hits you. When something wrong happens, it's such a waste of energy to dwell in the negative.
And I keep telling JJ and Sophie this, like, let's not dwell on the negative. Once a problem comes up, let's be problem sol let's have a problem solving mindset. Like, when a problem comes up, let's focus on how we solve it. Not not wallow in sadness. And that's what you learn from from being resilient, from From, yeah, from my past experiences in life.
It's such a waste of time to dwell in the negative. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's a great, that's a very deep and great answer. You know, I was hearing you say that being able to interact with many different people, obviously that, that has been a big experience for you, but then going through law school and, Climbing, as well, has really taught you and shaped you in a way where you take on a growth or a problem solving mindset as opposed to a victim mindset, right?
I'm curious, you know, how, how do you deal with failure generally? Like, climbing is, is obviously a lot of failure, and even business too. I, I've, I've worked in business, never started my own, um, but always, like, no, I've, I've coached people on this, but less so much been the person experiencing it. Um, what are your ways?
that you deal and wrestle with failure and how do you usually come back? Yeah, so that's a good question because especially when I was competing, and especially when I was in law school, I would always be, like, have this, um, phobia. I would always be so terrified of failing, um, just because I wasn't so used to it.
Like, being a high achiever, doing everything you can to achieve whatever you can, I didn't have too many experiences with failure until, like, Until I actually did fail. Um, I never failed in law school. Like I would, but you do get those, like those experiences in law school where you do like have a failing grade in the exam.
But yeah, um, in law school you learn to be resilient, cry it off and then like say to yourself, like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do, do the extra work to, to make up for this failure. But in competitions, I think that's what I, I, Um, I can relate failure to the most, because you can't really control it. And it was in competition that I really experienced the fear of failure.
Um, I would, I would go to competitions with a lot of training and thinking I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to fail this. But with that, so much pressure of pressuring myself not to fail. I would choke up and I would like, I would suddenly find myself like my body not being able to do what it could do. Not being able to, like, for example, send a problem.
Like I would choke just because I was so scared to fail. Um, and I think this happens to a lot of athletes also. And it took a lot of, um, it took a lot of inward thinking and a lot of reflecting to think, to see like, why am I so afraid to fail? And that takes a lot of, like, there's like a lot of therapy shit, I'm sorry.
Took a lot of inward thinking and a lot of, um, seeking for therapy to realize, like, why do I have this fear of failing? Um, but yeah, like, later on realizing that I shouldn't need to succeed all the time for me to define who I am. Um, yeah, um, it, it helped to always keep thinking that I am enough in myself.
Yeah. So I, whenever I go to competitions, like whether or not I fail or win, I win or I lose. I am enough as a person. I have such wonderful friends. I have such wonderful people around me who love me for who I am. Like, why do I depend so much of my personality of who I am on winning? Right. And it's when I separated, um, my fear of failure, when I, when I separated my sense of like winning all the time, me being a winner, me being an achiever from who I really am.
Was when I realized, was when I started doing my best in competitions, doing my best in climbing, doing my best in life, generally. So always affirming to myself that, yeah, I'm enough as a person. I don't need to be doing this. To be who I am. My, my identity doesn't depend on being a winner. And that's when I started winning competitions.
When I started excelling in, in life. Isn't it wild that, that's how it works? Like, the, when you, when you feel the least attached to the outcome, the outcome. happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, just affirming to yourself. Yeah, you're enough. You're enough. I love a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing because you shouldn't attach yourself to your accomplishments.
And that's what I tell like whoever I coach, just don't attach yourself to winning. Yeah, you it isn't are you have other aspects in life. And whenever like, for example, I would coach people and they would get burnt out. And we're like, take a step back, realize who you are. Realize who you are as a person.
Enjoy the people around you. Winning isn't winning, isn't everything? Mm-Hmm. people don't like. Yeah. People don't care if you like, there are people in your life who aren't associated with climbing, who don't care about what you're doing as a climber. And so I go back to those people, like the people who I knew before I was a climber.
And then you just realize like, life is good. Why are you stressing over such little things? So yeah. It's really, I love what you're saying. I've recently read this book, maybe you might like it, um, called The Zen of Climbing, and it's, it's really, I haven't read it yet, but I want to read it. It's really, really good because it talks on a lot of these themes that you're touching on, particularly around, you know, not attaching your identity to the outcome.
One quote that I liked from the book is, um, is this, A 512 7a plus climber should be just as satisfied with a good performance as a climber sending their first 514a 8b plus. Don't get me wrong, however, feeling proud after doing a hard route is good, but being proud of a climbing a grade pales in comparison to being satisfied with a stellar performance.
The reason I like this quote, Joe, is like, I've seen climbers at the crag, um, send something really, perform at their best, and then they like shrug, and they're like, eh, that's just a 7a, or like, eh, that's just a v5, like, I could be much stronger. And then, You know, like I'm like, dude, you just, you just did great.
Like, can we be proud of how awesome you performed? You know, like that's awesome. And when I really, really think about this at like a, such a deep level, it's like the rock is just a rock. Like we're humans. We're the humans that are attaching meaning to the rock, you know? And at the end of the day, like nature doesn't really tell that doesn't care that you sent it's more difficult rocks or not.
It's us as people that are ascribing the meaning to it. So. That's just a funny thought to think about, right? That's a good thing to realize. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. That's, yeah, I'd love to read that book. Yeah. Um, I think it would really incorporate everything I've been, like, putting, um, like, towards, like, directing my mental health towards being more, being more, less attached to the outcomes.
Yeah. Yeah. And rather, realizing that you have. You are your own person without climbing. Yeah, absolutely. Detach yourself from the successes. Detach yourself from the failures. Mm hmm. Yeah. Detach yourself from the failures. One, one of the quotes I also like from the book is, you know, when we botch a move on a climb, we will like, judge it as, Oh, I did the wrong move.
Bah, I did it wrong. And then we like, chastise our body, like, ah, come on, like, you suck, you know? And then that, that self talk, judging our bodies, is, um, Mm hmm. Is like movement is not good or bad, you know It's just like there's better movement and there's less better movement and you're just trying to figure out what's better But uh, I find that like climbers, you know, particularly is high achieving climbers We um, I also identify as a high achiever myself.
Like I'm a type 3. I don't know if you've ever taken the Enneagram I'm a type 3 Enneagram high achieving folks at least for me. I'll speak for myself I like oh that was bad, you know, like immediately just called bad as opposed to like, oh, why did I fall? You know? Yeah. I learned recently, um, more of, what do you call that, more of like, kinder self talk.
Yeah. Especially, yeah, while going through those issues of me attaching myself to succeeding, being so afraid of failure. I learned to talk to myself more kindly, so I've been, um, learning to do more positive self talk and I've discovered talking to yourself, because I really value my friends. I really value, like, I, if you're someone I value as a friend, I'd really treat you the best way I could, um, so the way I talk to myself should be the way I talk to a good friend.
Like, if my good friend did something wrong. I wouldn't like, like, what the fudge did you What the fudge did you do just do, like, what what the hell? That's the way I would talk to myself. But then, you realize, like, how you talk to a good friend, like, Oh, it's okay. It's okay that you did that. Um, you can always do better the next time.
It doesn't affect, like, how I care for you as a friend, like, if you mess up. But, yeah, learning to talk to yourself has, like, the way you would talk to a good friend. So, it's it's That would really help mentally when it comes to, like, positive self talk, positive treating yourself well. Yeah. Love that. Talk to yourself as if you're talking to your best friend.
Um, yeah. That's really great advice. Um, what are you, what are you up to next? Like, what, where's your head at? Besides smelling the roses, um, what's, um, what's coming up for you next? I am, I really don't know. Great. I am winging it right now. Well, we have the Nationals. So, there's another vlog. We have the Nationals.
We're hosting it at Vertex. So, all of the strongest climbers will be flying to Iloilo to see our walls. And I'm very proud of our gym, so I'm excited for them to see it. So, yeah, I think, um, I'll be training here and there for Nationals and yeah, you'll see me competing then. Um, yeah, I'm excited to have fun.
Like, I know who the roster is for the, for the route setting and I'm excited to climb the routes. Yeah, pretty much that. And then we, just growing Vertex right now. We just want to see where it goes. Um, if expansion is in the, in the picture in the future, let's see, let's see. Mm hmm. Amazing. Yeah. So nationals in Vertex.
Do you have any, um, plans to go outside as well? Oh, let's see. Let's see how I do in nationals. Yeah. I might, like, I do plan to compete. Maybe if I do get on the team, um, I plan to compete maybe in, for the C League. So there's a Southeast Asian League, which hap, which is happening. Starting August, I think, so it's a, it's a boulder competition, which happens throughout Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, and Singapore, there are different legs and anyone's free to compete, but yeah, it would be good to see some, the friends I would compete against, um, it's been a while since I competed abroad, yeah, it would be good to see them again, test where I am at, like in competition, even though, yeah, I don't, I don't I just want to do it for fun.
Um, yeah, what else is in store for us? Uh, I do plan to start training again for engagement and see if I can send it before the year ends. Yeah, because I've sent most of the gnarly things in IGBERAS. Things I do want to send. There isn't, there are other eight A's I want to try, but my eyes are set on engagement right now.
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, well, best of luck with engagement. Um, I've, I was joking, I think I joked this to you, uh, maybe, I don't know, to JJ, but I want Koyamaki to, uh, Also, name a route, Joe and JJ, so that there's Ben and Bae and Joe and JJ. That way there's double alliteration. Um, but maybe that's too much nosebleed.
Um, yeah, that'd be, that'd be really clever. You know, like, maybe an 8A, Joe and JJ. Who knows? Yeah, who knows? My last question for you is, uh, What are your kind of final parting words for the listeners of Rock and Rice? So listeners are both based in the Philippines and in the States. Um, what do you want to leave us?
What are your parting words to us? Come visit Vertex, um, or we hope to see you at Nationals. And yeah, thanks for listening. If, like, I know I keep rambling on, but if you stayed long enough, thanks for listening, uh, to my life story. Like what I was telling Tim, the entire car ride to Montalban. Awesome. Yeah, like, thanks for listening.
Thanks for interviewing me, Tim. Yeah. It was a pleasure and it was a It was an honor to be on, to be on your podcast. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, Joe. Yeah. I much appreciate it. Um, I think this conversation will be, uh, of value. I, I actually didn't honestly have, I had questions, but I always like to let the conversation just go where it's meant to go.
And I thought we hit on some really, Interesting topics around um, you know, like failure and achievement and inner work and all that good stuff So this is gonna be a really great episode and just thank you for your time joe. I know you're a really busy person Thank you, too. Yeah, and i'm excited to see the gym.
I'm excited to see the gym in january. Yeah Yeah, you have projects to send. You still have projects to send. I do. I need to get peanut butter and oreo because I felt Yeah, I love that group. I love that group. It's such a sandbag 7e. Oh my god. It was like, I remember sending it. I remember sending it. It's a 7a plus, right?
Yeah, it's a 7a plus. I was like, that was the hardest 78 plus I've ever sent. It's so beautiful though. It's so incredible. Yes. Yeah, I'm, I'm so excited to come back to Iloilo. My partner, Kayla, I've been trying to hype her up about it. Just how, how much I love Iloilo and the people and how clean it is and how active it is.
Yeah. There's a lot of positive things to say about it, but even more so that the gym's there. So, great. We're excited to have you at Vertex. Great.
Bye everyone, see you next week!