EP 21: Ryan Juguan — Paraclimbing Nationals, Chicago Climbs, and Redefining Access

Di araw araw pasko… but today we dropped a nice one

This week we sit down with Ryan Juguan — USA Paraclimber + disability advocate — to talk about competing at the highest level and making climbing more accessible for everyone.

We get into:

• what comp climbing is actually like
• building Chicago Climbs from the ground up
• the gaps in accessibility (and what needs to change)

Also yes, CJoy (not Chicken Joy, but Christine Joy) is on the mic because Chicago climbing scene reunion. Go Bulls?

Shoutouts to Ivee Leung for recommending Ryan as a guest! Salamat Ivy!

Show Ryan some love 👉🏽 instagram.com/ryjuguan
Hop in the Discord 👉🏽 https://discord.gg/dgzb8cseJ
Support the pod 👉🏽 https://www.patreon.com/rockandrice

Transcript

0:11

TIm Kamusta! Welcome to the Rock and Rice. Episode 21. I am your host, Tim Casasola and for today's show, we are joined by our friend Ryan Juguan. So, Ryan is a competitive climber. He actually just competed in Paraclimbing Nationals and placed fourth. TIm Woop woop! TIm He's also Filipino and he's a disability advocate. So he founded Chicago Climbs, which is a nonprofit that's basically spreading climbing to the youth in Chicago. It's a really great organization. And speaking of Chicago climbs, we want to shout out Ivy. Ivy, actually suggested we get Ryan on the show for, an episode. She does really great work in the Chicago climbing scene. TIm But, yes, Ryan's from Chicago, founded Chicago climbs. He now lives in Salt Lake City, Utah, focusing on competition climbing and, Ryan and Christine. As you know, Christine is, helping on the show as, our lead on social and the discord. Christine and Ryan know each other. So Christine joined as a co-host. So, you know, it was a fun episode. TIm In this episode, Ryan talks about his experience becoming a competition climber. His roots in Chicago, his thoughts on accessibility in climbing. You know, I think as, able-bodied climbers, we take a lot for granted in terms of how to get to the approach. Like, you know, how gyms are designed to be accessible. But, when you are a paraclimber, your world is is very different. TIm And, you know, one of the themes we, we talk about on the show is how this world is really designed for, able bodied folks and not necessarily, you know, there's a lot we can do to change to make this world more equitable and accessible. So Ryan speaks on that very eloquently. And shares his own perspective on how, you know, gyms can be more accessible, how getting to the crag, can be done in such a way where, you know, it's it's catered towards, more folks. TIm And, last but not least, we always we also talk about how, being Filipino has shaped him as an individual. He was super generous in doing a podcast with us just right after Paraclimbing Nationals. So again, Ryan, congratulations on getting fourth. I hope you're, resting and taking a break from your training program and perhaps eating some longanisa and drinking some San Miguel. TIm Two notes before we get into the episode, One, is we have a discord. So if you haven't joined our discord, it's a space for listeners to connect and even suggest guests on the show. You know, we like to have, you know, this podcast is about sort of creating connections and creating, community. So you should join our discord if you haven't yet. TIm I'll leave a link to our discord server in the show notes. And on that note, if you have any suggestions for who should be a guest on the show, we're always open to hearing, or down to chat with anyone who's Filipino. But we're especially down to chat with Filipinos from back home. So, we like we want to prioritize Filipinos from, back home who have something interesting or wonderful to say about our world of rock climbing. TIm If you have any suggestions for guests, you can email us at rockandricepodcast@gmail.com or send us a DM on Instagram. Our Instagram handle is @rockandricepod. That's @rockandricepod All right. Without further ado, here's Ryan. TIm Ryan, welcome to the show. You had just come from para climbing nationals, which we're excited to talk to you about. Also. Christine. Hello. How's it? How's it feel to be co-hosting this episode? Christine Hi. Thanks for having me again. TIm Again and again. Christine Good to be back. I'm here because I actually know Ryan from Chicago. Chicago climbing community is the best. Yes. So I'm excited to catch up with Ryan because I haven't seen him in, like, it's been a few years. Right? I think we met when you first started climbing, actually. Ryan Yeah, when I first started climbing in Chicago. Yeah. Christine Yeah. Yeah. So. So excited to catch up. Excited to be back. Ryan Yeah. And thank you for having me. I really appreciate you all for offering this opportunity and inviting me in. Yeah. So let's do it. Yeah. TIm We're honored to have you. Especially since you've come back from pair climbing nationals, which, maybe let's start there and then we'll go. We have some questions about, like, maybe you being a disability advocate, especially in climbing. And, we're thankful that you're willing to kind of speak on that. I think that's something that we, you know, maybe Christine and I both feel aligned towards, like sharing more stories from folks, in the adaptive climbing space. TIm And, also just understand, you know, how you feel about being a Filipino climber, because, you know, just thinking about how our identities intersect with the passions that we have. But let's start with Paraclimbing Nationals. How is the competition? Did you have any expectations coming into it? And what happened? Ryan Yeah. So it was a really fun experience. Going to those competition is really cool to just climb those routes and just, be part of the community, see all my friends and make new friends and also travel to a new place and new gym, which is awesome. Heading into it, I felt like I felt like really good. Ryan I felt mentally sharp, physically strong. But unfortunately I did not do the best that I. I was hoping to. But, in the end of the day, I just felt good. I, as a competitor, it took me some years to really develop a healthy balance of competition and the mindset of that and, you know, going into competition, like the outcomes and the results. Ryan But I got fourth in my category. My category is Range and Power Three. So it's called, "RP3" for short. It's, so RP3 it's a category and then there's subcategories within that. So there's RPE one, two, and three and I mean three, which is basically the least impaired in that category. So there's a total of seven competitors, within that category. Ryan And I, made it to the final round and, yeah, I got to my final route. I was flowing, I was flowing, and then I frickin slipped off. I was going through this like left crimp and that I did not lock off my left thumb, and then I just frickin slipped. And I was very disappointed. And actually, before this call, I was speaking to my, coach here in Salt Lake City who is also a Filipino. Ryan And yeah, we were just talking about that. But, yeah, I really enjoyed my experience. And para climbing nationals this year in Houston, Texas. TIm Awesome. Yeah, I think that, it I mean, it sounds like you you totally wish you didn't slipped, but it also sounds like it was a great experience. Ryan Absolutely. TIm Yeah. Christine, did you want to ask your follow up question? Christine Oh, yeah. So what was your biggest learning, or the biggest thing you learned from the experience? Ryan The biggest thing that I've learned, and I'm actually still reflecting on that. Right. Like, because it's still really fresh. But for me, it's like continuing to, like, believe in myself. Especially as a paraclimber in paraclimbing in general, it's a wide range of abilities for me. I'm a short person. I really like, you know, like, sometimes I compare myself compared to other people who are taller than me. Ryan And they just believing that, like, despite all, like, what the route will look like, you know, like just believing that, like, I put in the work, I put in the physical work, the mental work, the nutrition, the recovery that, like, I am deserving to, like, compete at my highest level. And also just, just being present, you know, like, I think we can all, you know, learn from that, just being present because, like, going to this competition, like in finals especially, you go to this isolation and you just like focusing on the freaking final route. Ryan And just, like, trying to figure out the crux and where you're rest and, like, what would that look like? And just, Yeah, just being more present in a way where like, just trying to focus on the movement and what the, the route setters intentions are, because even though they might make the movements accessible, quote on quote, like they don't necessarily challenge the climbers and who is the always the strongest climber, but they want to focus on who is the best climber. Ryan And that's more focused on the movement of the intentions. Right. Like it might be an a unstable move, but like that is the intended movement. And then how can you like, compensate or like position yourself in the body, in your body to make that move, that reach. So that's like, what I've learned. And, hopefully I'll continue to get better with that. Ryan And, I have the intrinsic motivation and the will to, like, hone my, my competitive climbing skills. TIm Yeah. Was that your first climbing competition? That wasn't right? Ryan That was my fourth, paraclimbing competition. My first one was in 2018* and then 2019*. And then last year in 2025 is when I first podium. And that's kind of like when I came out from retirement, and I was not expecting to make it to the finals. And then, one of my coaches in Chicago was like, "Ryan, you made it to the final round!" Ryan And I was so shocked because I was so down. I'm like, dang, I didn't make it to the finals. And then like, I eventually podium. And then this year, like, I moved from Chicago to Salt Lake with really intentions of getting better. So I had like I had intentions of, expectations of like, climbing strong but not sharing the expectations of, like, all right, this is where I want to place necessarily. Ryan But even though I wanted that deep down, but I wanted to frame it in a more healthier way where, like, yes, it doesn't matter, but it matters. It's nice to have it, but I'm not going to beat myself up if I don't accomplish that external goal, right? TIm I guess on that note, one of our questions and we're going to take a backtrack a little bit or a lot rather is when you started climbing, what were your intrinsic motivations? As well as your, say, extrinsic motivations? Like what what motivated you when you first started climbing? Ryan So I started climbing in college at the University of Illinois. So in college I used to play wheelchair basketball for the university and classic. Yeah. So I just climb just for fun. Like, I thought it was a good cross-training during the offseason, and I really enjoyed the vibe in the climbing gym. Like in the basketball court, we would have to temper our music. Ryan In the climbing gym, you can just play whatever music we wanted to play and it was just a vibe and I would just climb just for fun. I wasn't worry about the grades, I wasn't worried about none of that. And then when I finished college, I wanted to still have that community that I felt in the climbing gym in college. Ryan And I found that, the Brooklyn Boulders, shout out to the BKB. But now they're called the West Loop First Ascent. And I found that and I just wanted to just climb freely and just also like, have that competitive, style. But then intrinsic competitiveness because I was still, like, coming out from this collegiate competition. Ryan But then now I'm trying to find myself now that I'm working. But I still wanted to have that. I still had that. It's still I compete and like, yeah, just a competition mindset. And I learned that Adaptive Climbing Group had a competitive team and I still had that hunger for competition. So I climb and I climbed for fun. Ryan But then it turned from intrinsic motivation to this extrinsic motivation, because at that time I was still young enough or like I just wanted to frickin win. I just wanted to, like, beat everybody. And then at the end of 2019, it just wasn't fun anymore because it just, I see all those climbers, we get hurt, right? We work on a project, then we get our butts kicked, and then I just didn't develop that healthy mindset, of that competition and just climbing in general. Ryan And then when I retired, I started developing this balance and this boundaries and seeking help with therapies about like, why do I climb?, you know, like, is it because something is empty? or is it because I enjoy it? Or so I had to do some soul some soul searching, and I feel like even to this day, I'm still, you know, finding that balance. Ryan But I feel like I'm in the right place of like that intrinsic and extrinsic motivation of the competitive climbing. And I feel like it will continuously be, forever evolution. Right. Or like a maturity that, you know, yeah, we want to do our best. We want to climb. We want to be the the hardest climber, at least for me. Ryan But at the same time that that it's not what it's really it's all about. It's about the community, you know, pushing ourselves and Tim, to be honest with you and Christine, when I moved there, I knew that, like, climbing was going to be a biggest part of my life, but like, I want it to be beyond that. And the way I framed it before I moved there, is that like, how could I reach my highest self as a person? Ryan Right? And then how can I use climbing as a tool to help me push that helped me reach my my, my, my highest potential? And how can I transfer that energy in my profession into my community that I help out with? And, so I'm trying to see beyond what that looks like, and hopefully I'm in the right path and, hopefully I have people around me that's going to tell me, right? Ryan You are wrong. You are being a jerk, and you should do something. You should do something about it. Christine I feel like I totally forgot that you climbed, at UofI and I now I'm having flashbacks to us talking at the adaptive climbing group back at first ascent. Yeah, I'm like. And I'm like, no, you played wheelchair basketball with Jake. Yeah. And that was like another thing that we connected on because I. That's also my alma mater. Christine Yeah. But you said you started climbing in college. What year was that again? Ryan So I did my internship in the Arc. So that was like the the, the gym, Tim. It was in 2015. I did an internship there and that's when I started rock climbing. They had this like adaptive equipment that they wanted me to try. Whenever we got to try the adaptive equipment, because I just started climbing and I just really enjoyed it. TIm Yeah, that it's hard not to enjoy it when you first start. And especially when you, you do it for the first time. Were you, I mean, obviously you knew Cristine, but did you know any other Filipino climbers when you first started? Ryan No, no, no, not until I, I moved back to Chicago. I met Christine, and, Yeah, I'm sure there's other people that I know that like. But. Yeah. No, not in college. And then as I continued my paraclimbing, I got to meet more Filipinos and also more Filipino paraclimbers as well. Christine Have you been able to connect with other, paraclimbers in the Philippines? Ryan No. Not yet. That's something I want to cultivate, actually. And I've been following the Manila paraclimber group there, and I just actually DM them in their, social media about like how I'm so happy. So like that I'm seeing this and I've actually told my coach here, Chris Call, who's also Filipino, and I told him, like, "coach, you should do something about this." Ryan Like he's a coach who is like, really knows about, paraclimbing. He actually started the paraclimbing program at The Front, which is a climbing gym here in Salt Lake City. And he had this vision of starting this program at the gym. And, he has developed this really strong, paraclimbing program in Utah. Christine What was your coach's name again? Ryan Chris Call. TIm Yeah. Shout out to Chris. Do you still talk in these, these days? Yeah. Ryan Yeah, yeah, he's actually my my coach here in Salt Lake City. He was with me in, Texas. And actually, before we had this conversation, we just had a debrief about, like, nationals, and, you know. TIm The one you mentioned earlier. Ryan Yeah. So, yeah, but yeah TIm And, I'm curious, you know, you mentioned that you started as a recreational climber and then became competitive. What was that transition like? Obviously both. I'm not a comp climber, I don't think, Cristine, I don't think you identify as a comp player ever either. But to me it's just it's I know, to me it sounds like a very different world, you know, like there is a day you have to come to show up and you have to perform at that best day, right? TIm Like when you're projecting, you can kind of pick the you're always trying to find the right day to do it. But there's no like defined competition date for your project. It just happens when it happens. But I'm rambling. What was that transition like for you? Ryan The transition, it was like more structure of like, training. In terms of, like weightlifting to like, what is our focus for this climbing session? So like, there's always a plan on an agenda as opposed to like recreational climbing. Where are you just climbing for fun. You're chitchatting right. But like, I, when I transitioned to, like. Ryan All right, I'm competing now. It's all about business. Like, what can I get out of this time so that I can get better? And just, like, stacking days, and then hopefully when it's time to compete and be at your best and perform at the time when it's required, then it's going to show up, right? So that's like more of it. Ryan It's just like turning it on. And also just like just being more disciplined. Right. Like we all know this like as a climber, like it take to be a strong climber. There's a lot of things that we have to sacrifice right. And then as a competitive climber, well now you're like, you're really sacrificing because you want a certain outcome. Ryan And so like it's like a lot of sacrifices that you have to make when I'm willing to make those sacrifice. And I'm sure a lot of other parallel, competitive climbers are also aware of that too. And, we do it because we love it. We love the structure, we love the grind. We love the people that we're a part of. Ryan And we also enjoy pushing each other and pushing our body to the best that we can. Because we only have this body for so long, we're all going to get old. One day. We're all going to have some type of disability, right? Disability is one of those things that we can acquire any minute so people can be disabled for a short period of time, and then some people acquire their disability later on. Ryan And for me, I just knew that, like, you know, career is always a great thing that where we can achieve social status. But, when I grow in my career, I'm like, I don't know if this will kind of growth I really want in my life, right? Like, yeah, it's nice to have like, you know, whatever that is title or that money that we want. Ryan But like, for me, it didn't really resonate with me. I just wanted to like, be the best that I can be, athletically and also, just. Yeah, I guess pushing my body and, like, reaching my highest self is, really what I want to do. And just using rock climbing as a tool to get to that and also see beautiful, beautiful things like going out outside like you've all been to Ryan The Red is so beautiful. There's other places that I want to go and hopefully, use my strength in my competitive climbing and transfer that to outdoor climbing, which I certainly want to do more this year. And, Christine, I'm going to go to the, like to Nevada sooner than talking to Jean. Christine Yep. Ryan Yeah. Seriously, Jean. Christine So maybe I just got certified as a SPI like two, where Tim and I both just got certified today, so, Ryan Ayee congrats! Christine Like, I don't I mean, I would have to learn what to implement, for adaptive climbing purposes, but. Yeah, and, like, approaches and stuff, but. Yeah. Ryan So, yeah, for me, the only thing that I need is just a short approach, you know, like I could do to lead, the belaying it's just like the approach is just the thing that's like, I gotta find the closest approach. Christine Yeah, we'll chat. We'll make some plans. We'll plan with Jean too. Yeah. I think one question I had since you have, played on the wheelchair basketball team at U of I, what parts of like that experience do you feel like are, things I feel like you feel like benefit you in your competition climbing? Like what tactics that you have or strategies that you have from, playing wheelchair basketball competitively? Christine Do you feel like really aligned with what you're doing now, or what are some things that you feel like you have to actually change in the way that you approach competition in climbing? Ryan Yeah. So, I share with you like a mental side and a physical side. The mental side, it's like, so one of my coaches, Coach Riley, who's like, a Hall of Famer, had won multiple gold medals in the Paralympics. He was really big into, like, not feeling sorry for yourself. Like, fuck that. Like you feel sorry for yourself. Ryan What are you going to do about it? Right. Like he didn't want us to, like, play less than our potential. Right? And he just always had that that mentality where, like, just always pushing yourself, like physically and physically, mentally. But then also that that attitude of like, don't play down against your competition. Like let's say if you if we played a team that we know we were going to beat, then like we should demolish them and we shouldn't like play on their level, right? Ryan That's like the second part. The second part of that too, is just like just being focus, right? Being intentional on like, you know, what we are doing to like, help us get better. And like, he always had this like, like 1% like, how can I get 1% better today? Just today and then tomorrow? How can I get 1% better tomorrow? Ryan And then eventually that's going to stack up to whatever that looks like, and that will be fruitful during competition. And then the second part is like the physical side, right? Is like, you know, it's like about like working on your endurance, but then also focusing on your strengths, but then also focusing on the movements, like in basketball is about the shooting, the layups. Ryan Right. Like the specific mechanics that we need to do to, play together and watch your basketball from picking, which also transfer to rock climbing. How can we rest before the crux? How can we use our heel hooks, toe hooks, and of all these different movements, how can we do a gaston and, like, move our hips and, you know, like all this stuff? Ryan So that really just transferred and I had to learn that there was a big learning curve for me. And also the third part is like the community, right? It's like surrounding yourself with athletes who first wants to be part of a team, who wants to help each other and push each other. But then also that balance of, like, pushing each other, but then also having your back if you don't feel your best. Ryan Right. Like we have. So sometimes, you know, we just don't feel good, right? Maybe we just, we just got injured. Well, like, you know, like, how can we support each other? But then in it's safe. Cristine, if you feel really strong, well, shit, I push you because you're, you're feeling pysche and TIm. You're right there and you know, we're all pushing each other but then understanding that. Ryan Right. Like, all right. Well like but then having each other's back because you know it's tough out there, especially if you're competing. It's like us against them. But it really is just us against the wall. So those are the three things that like has really helped me. But then also like recovery, right. Like, yeah, we're pushing our body, but like, how can we recover and really hit, our peak before we need to hit the peak. Ryan And that comes with nutrition, with sleeping. Right. And all this things that we need to prime our body and also take care of our listen to our body when we're having some pulley injuries, which we can all relate to, or we have some tendons that we need to really watch out for. And also safety, basketball and wheelchair basketball. Ryan We have all this metal that like you're going 100mph and you're hitting each other like in rock climbing. It's inherently dangerous, which you all have talked about in your pod where, you know, like one small slip, it could be fatal. And we've all seen this in our community where especially in my community, I've seen able bodied climbers in a split second, they're paralyzed and there's no reversing that. Ryan And that's the reality that we all have to accept. And it all takes all of us to check each other to make sure we're all safe. And we're doing fine. We're we're trying hard, but like, we all want to come out in the same piece right? And just continue to enjoy the sport. And actually, yeah, it's like something that we all have to realize that it is a dangerous sport. Ryan And, but yeah, so that's what I would, share. TIm Yeah, I'm really interested. Dig into, you know, you mentioned the fact that, like, you've seen climbers go from able bodied to paralyzed in a second. And obviously, you being a disability advocate yourself, must get a lot of questions and assumptions that able bodied folks have. What is like one misconception people have about, say, paraclimbing for paraclimbers, like what would be one common misconception? Ryan One of them is that like so because I, because I'm a wheelchair user, right. People thinks that like I just climb with all this like campus. It's like this climb campus and but I use my legs when I rock climb, you know, I pivot my legs, you know, do some heel hooks if I can. And just do that. Ryan But, Yeah, like, but like, I feel like that's like, for me, that's what the misconception when people ask me like, oh, is, you know, campus this whole thing. Well, that's not true. But, what else? I think, like, you know, like disability is so wide range and, like, climbing is also a wide range too, where, like, there's no like there's no, like, one size fits all. Ryan And also there's some paraclimbers that does not like competitive climbing. And they just want to go outside and then do some bouldering work on their project. And there's people that just want to do indoor climbing. So both of them are perfectly fine. But I feel like it's just, I think it's just a matter of like having that conversation and getting to know the person and just being curious about what's their interests. Ryan And, so I think just being open minded to that, is basically what I was just say. Christine Yeah. Like I feel like people are nervous to say or do the wrong thing. And a lot of it is just, like, lack of, honestly, just a lack of exposure and a lot of ignorance. But then also, at the same time, people are, like, nervous to ask the wrong types of questions or, ask anything that might be too invasive. Christine Or sometimes they do ask things that are too invasive. So I guess, if you could give like a general guideline for people like what are some questions that, allies can ask to make sure that they can support, any one of the disability or adaptive climbers? Ryan Yeah. So, like I would answer it just the way I've experienced my own disability. So I grew up with my disability. So I don't know anything else. Right. There's some people with, with disabilities where they have acquired that when they were an adult or later into life. And for me, like, this is being curious, right? I don't want people assuming, but like, for me, like, people starts assuming I don't take offense to it. Ryan Some people, they might take offense to that. But yes. You know, like, especially climbing, we all enjoy climbing, right? If we all can share the crag together. Excuse me. Yeah. Let's share the crag together. Help each other out and be a good steward. Of rock climbing, I think, it's a good rule of thumb. Like, you know, it doesn't matter if you're abled body or not. Ryan Like, you know, if you see somebody struggling, like, ask, "Do you need help? Do you not need help?" As opposed to just like, walking past them. Right. But just I yeah, I don't really have a, straightforward answer, but I would say it just starts with curiosity, having the conversation being genuine and also just understanding that, like, we are here because we're enjoying this thing and how can we continue to spread, stoke, spread the love of climbing, share the knowledge of climbing, and can how can we like expand the access of climbing to all, to everyone, right. Ryan This elderly people who also loves climbing and there's young people and there's everybody in between. And I know that are just outside in general, like, like outdoor climbing. It's just typically not accessible. So then how can we find crags where we can, you know, at least find crags that are like roadside? I know in the Philippines I've noticed and I've been looking like what those approach looks like. Ryan And some of them are tough, man. But then I think, oh yeah. So because climbing is so new there. Right. Like compared to America where like we've had a lot of like pioneers who've like put endless of time sweat equity into bolting and creating all this really phenomenal areas. And I think Philippines will get there eventually. But like, how can we like, also put that in people's, mind when like they're creating this routes or going in create we are creating this, climbing areas. Tim Yeah. It is definitely something that, is something that the community, at least from what I hear, talks about and tries to, you know, be a lot more deliberate around because it is still a very nascent, growing thing in the Philippines. But yeah, there'll be conversations with like Iloilo climbing and, you know, the people who live there of like, yeah, we're going to improve the trails. Tim Like, is that okay with you? And so there is there are little pockets of people trying to start that work. Yeah. But like you said, it takes it takes hard work. It takes equity. It takes, sweat equity, as you said it like actually blocking out a day on your calendar not to climb, but to, like, fix the trails. Tim Yeah. You know, and then in the Philippines, the just thw jungle grows. So like. Ryan Yes. Tim Obviously after every, like, storm, the trails are just covered in, in plants and trees and someone has to cut it up. And sometimes it's like the local Lola the local Tito are like just doing it on themselves in their tsinelas. So, but yeah, it'll it'll be a community effort for sure. Ryan Absolutely. And I want to be part of that community to just say so whatever that looks like, whatever advocacy, whatever. Yeah, I want to be part of that, especially growing, for sure. You know, the Filipino paraclimbing community. Tim Yeah. I'm curious. We have some questions around, kind of like the accessibility of your talk. You're touching a bit about like, accessibility of outdoor crags. What do you notice, about like or I guess another way to ask this is what do you wish more climbers and gym owners understood about accessibility? So thinking about indoor accessibility, what do you wish more gym owners and climbers understood more? Ryan Yeah. So what I've noticed, so from first of all, what comes to mind is like competition, let's say like indoor climbing competition. Right? I'm not going to say who, but like there's some competition out there in the competition where they don't have a paraclimbing category. Right. Paraclimbing. We exist in those gyms. Why not just have us and they've had those categories before. Ryan But like they don't continuously have that or they don't I don't think necessarily they keep that in mind, you know what I mean? So that's one also some gyms, they would have all their equipments on the second floor where they don't have elevators. Well we're talking about equity, right. Well how about for someone who's wheelchair user like me or people with like who, who, who really literally can't walk, right. Ryan But then they want to access those equipments or those campus boards. So that one comes to mind. And then sometimes they would say, oh, we are accessible. But then if you go to the gym, this like steps to those gyms, like literally you go through their like the Google reviews. They say they have the wheelchair sign and like you would go there and it's like frickin steps or let's say it might be accessible, but then how about the bathroom? Ryan It's not accessible. We we're all humans. Unless you all got to use the bathroom. Can you make that accessible? You know, it's like some of this things where they, they call it reasonable accommodation, which is, you know, like, I think it's like, you know, it's like, yeah, it's reasonable, but like, how reasonable is it? Because again, disability comes in many forms, right. Ryan Like, you know, you might break a leg now you're in like crutches. Well yeah you can get up that. But let's say if a person can't, you know, doesn't have the capacity to just climb up there, well is that really reasonable accommodation. So it's just something to keep in mind from, for indoor climbing. And then also like from an outdoor standpoint, like again, just nature is just like the world is just not built for people with disabilities. Ryan It's just I think the truth, like the world is just built for abled bodies. So then how can we create, universal structures, right. Which is a thing. Where can we make it more accessible for everyone? So not just in rock climbing, but also in our society as we continue to build processes and structures and architectures where it's accessible for every single person, even for people with intellectual disabilities or, you know, I think it's very important just thinking about universal, accessibility. Ryan But then again, that it comes down to resource and time and then priorities, right? People have competing priorities, and we only have so much, time and effort that we can provide in making it accessible. So but I think it just takes all of us to like, advocate for those things and then continuing to speak out. I been privileged to have, disabled leaders and I've talked to them about like, aren't you tired of speaking about this? Ryan And they were like, yeah, I'm tired, but we have to continue to speak up. Right? And like you all know, like our like, Filipino leaders who came here before us in the 30s, in the 20s, who used to be farmers, who used to be treated poorly, wrongly, and they continued to speak out. And some of them, they spoke out and they died because of that. Ryan But yeah, we have to continue to speak up because if not, our society is not going to, then I feel sorry for us. Nobody's going to continue to look out for us until we continue to speak up, and people are going to get tired of that. You know, the women rights people were mad because like, oh, you're being feminist now, but then who's going to speak up to the like to those rights? Ryan Right. Until women can vote and then like the civil rights and then after that, like the people with disabilities. The ADA came up after the civil rights because people continued to speak up. And yeah, people have died because people spoke up. But, I think that, like, we still have more growth to do, and especially as our society continue to be more complex, and with more technology being brought on and we climbing, growing, right, there's going to be some climbers who are new and they just want to like, freaking go for it. Ryan Right. But then I feel like as they continue to mature in their climbing career, there's more to themselves because there's more to us as a community, and we are all stewards of climbing in general and power climbing is part of that. Tim When did, not I'm like trying not to go into a sociological rant but I just didn't like living in New York City every like not every station had an elevator and yeah, the ones that had elevators, they smelled like piss, right? Yeah. Like people hang out there, you know, that was something I quickly noticed. Tim Just like being on an e-scooter for. I'm, you know, obviously I'm not here to, like, compare situations, but just even being on an e-scooter for a week, I quickly noticed, dude, like, these subways are not not like, designed at all for accessibility. Yes. And I'm sure, I'm sure, you've seen a lot more of, like, what that looks like. Tim You know, since since, like, birth. So, Yeah, but I'm resisting going to this sociological rant. I'm just curious. Christine Like, Tim When did disability become, like, central to your mission? Ryan When I graduated from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. So, just a really quick story. After World War Two, we had a handful. We have a lot of injured veterans. Right. And because of the GI Bill, they were able to go to the universities. However, most of the universities that were not accessible, however, University of Illinois fought for those rights for the soldiers to attend a university, to be educated. Ryan And because they were vets the university had to follow the policy. So the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign really created this, like disability focus. So then they started doing research about disability, architectures, and so much more. Right. And then when I was a student athlete, our coach, Coach Frogley, made sure we understood the story of that because Doctor Nugent started this. Ryan And he is also known as the grandfather of accessibility. And, basically he made us aware of the history of that. And then when I graduated, I started seeing not everybody has a disability in mind, even though we're all going to be disabled in our lifetime. So, because of that, I just really like and, my profession, in human resources, I speak about that. Ryan And, like, how can we, you know, make our job application more accessible? How can we have job description? Talk about disability. Right. How can I come? How can we make interviewing more, equitably, for people with different, abilities? So that's certainly something that, I continue to foster in my career. And I want to continue to speak on that. Ryan And, in careers, there's like change of change, chain of commands that you have to go through. And you guys know how that stuff works we're not gonna get into that. But, yeah, whenever, the opportunity opens up, I certainly, advocate for, accessibility because everyone can benefit from that. Christine I was wondering when you were mentioning earlier, like providing feedback to gyms about lack of accessibility with no elevator or the bathroom being inaccessible, or other aspects within the gym or companies you've worked for where you've given feedback around that, like what has the response generally been like? and Have you seen like, upper management in those places? Christine Take those, take that feedback seriously and actually try to implement something or work with you to make improvements. Ryan Yes, absolutely. And I think it's because the way I would frame the conversation sometimes, like when people would give those feedback, they would get shut down because for me, I just frame it differently. For me, it's really starts with the relationship and being curious about the what's going on. Because like, I don't want to start accusing things, right? Ryan Especially because I know people are doing the best that they can. So coming in with that intention and then, and I know there are certain barriers that some people or some people within that position, they just can't like, do. So just being empathetic to that. But I feel like, when I brought those concerns, yeah, they were open to it. Ryan And some of them, they would follow up with me and some of them would have to do some reminders. But yeah, I feel like it's been positive because I feel like our society nowadays, even though some parts of our society's going back, there's still some people that still want to listen and wants to, like, make things improve because climbing gyms, it's a business, right? Ryan If they can provide more access, they'll have more people coming in and using and utilizing their tools and their services. So, it's been positive for the most part. So I can't really think of anything negative that where there was a recourse because I said something where the elevator's not working or the elevator stuck. Well, no, I can't do this climb. Ryan So but yeah. And, there's also other, places, especially where I'm at where, like, you know, they might have an equipment upstairs, but then you're also going to provide equipment downstairs, too. So we might not be able to access the upstairs. Well, we have access to this particular equipment or, you know, I can modify my exercise to, like, to adapt to this exercise that I want. Ryan So, yeah. Tim Yeah. I mean, I'm so glad you're doing the work of advocating because, like you saying, if no one's speaking up, then nothing's going to change. And as much as I'm sure you all have felt like, you know, man were saying the same thing and nothing's really happening, but. Yeah, that's. But long term things do change. Ryan Absolutely. Tim You don't really see how things can be more accessible. Tim But when we look back at the grand scheme of things like things do change because advocates speak up and they speak up. Ryan Absolutely. Tim I, I guess, to shift gears a bit, I'm curious to, you know, sort of understand, like how you see yourself also as a Filipino in the context of also being a paraclimber. How do you see the intersectionality of identities? You know, what's it like being a Filipino Paraclimber? Ryan I'm a proud Filipino climber. And that's because, like, I don't know, I, I'm just like, really like, I just love our culture. I love what we stand for. I love the energy of Filipinos. Right? Our attitude, the food that we have and just everything about that. And then we like. And then that spills over to, rock climbing. Ryan Then we add our own style, and then you guys, provide a spot for it for Filipino climbers, which is really cool because there's not many of us out there and, you know, like, and I think it's growing, which is awesome, right? Like seeing more and more Filipino climbers even like, and, even in, like, like competitions to, so it's been really cool to see that, but for me, like, you know, I'm Filipino first. Ryan Give me one second, guys, is that okay? Give me a second. One second as also part of me. And the reason why I say that is because, my parents came to America because of my disability, and they wanted me to have a better opportunity in life to be educated. And I really took that seriously. So I yeah, like, you know, going to the University of Illinois gave me that education. Ryan And then now that I know better now, what can I do better? Because learning my history, learning the Filipino history, learning the disability history, learning the American history, like there's a lot of stuff that we can continue to push towards progress. And that could be so many things. Right. And but for me, like, yeah, I'm very proud of being Filipino. Ryan And I'm happy to be a Filipino. And I'm glad that, we have Filipino climbers out there who's killing it in, in the mainland and also here in the States. And hopefully we can continue to strengthen the relationship between the two lands and grow the climbing community in general. And also, I want to see the Philippine climbers in the Olympics in 2028. Ryan So that that would be so exciting. And also paraclimbing would be debut and in the Paralympics. Paraclimbing we'll be debuting in the Paralympics in LA 2028. Tim Yeah. Are you coming? Ryan Well, unfortunately, my category was not selected for the Paralympics. But I hope to see, just Filipinos in general representing the Philippines and Paraclimbing and also Filipino Americans representing the paraclimbing in the US. Christine Yeah. I was going to say earlier, I was really, really happy and like, inspired that you mentioned so much about like Filipino and Filipino American history in this country. And like our inherent role in fighting against oppression. I think I said this on my podcast episode, but, one thing that sticks in my head a lot when it comes to our community is our places in the struggle, like our people have constantly been fighting against oppressors for centuries. Christine Like it's just a it is in our blood at this point and it's just a part of who we are. So thank you so much for talking about that. I feel like a lot of people don't really, like, go that far back to understand, like, why it's so important that we continue pushing it back, pushing back against these systems. Christine And it sounds a lot like, those aspects of being Filipino and then also being a paraclimber and being an advocate really, like, synergize with each other. So that's really cool to see. You had mentioned that your family moved to the States so that you could have, they always say for a better life. But is what like what are the differences that you see and how, Filipinos and, or many Filipino Americans are Americans, understand or advocate for people with disabilities and accessibility? Ryan Yeah, that's that's a lot of that's that's like a loaded question. Right. But like, so like, I feel like, you know, when Filipinos so, like, I'm a first generation Filipino that, you know, came here, you know, went to school here, and then there's also, obviously other Filipinos that just came here, and then they just started working and whatever they did. Ryan I've always see myself as like. Like a leader. Like I always want to be successful in a way where, like, maybe I just wanted to achieve more. Are you. Christine Are you Leo? Ryan And that? Yeah. I don't know. But then at the same time, like, when I think about history, Christine, you know, like, I think it's just in our blood to come here to, like, live the American dream or whatever that dream may look like. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you guys heard about Carlos Bulosa, who's like, yeah, you know, like. Tim America's in the heart. Yeah. Ryan Yeah, I know. Right. Like, yeah. All these things that he wanted to do and like, just like learning about that. And then I just thought that it was just me, but, like. No, it's like in our fricking blood. Yeah. You know, because when I grew up in the Philippines, it was all rural, you know, and like, that's a family member who has, like, strong willed, like, you know, strong minded people that will not take no, for whatever reason, good or bad. Ryan Right. But, like, I think it's just in our blood to like, achieve and make our people happy and then serve our family. At the end of the day, because we're all family oriented, right? Like, how can we make our family members happy, be comfortable so we can all eat because, you know, we love to eat, but I think it's just, I think it's just a matter of, like, people's personality and their, their appetite to grow. Ryan Some Filipino Americans that I've seen here, they're just. Okay with, like, doing what they're doing right, growing their career. That's awesome. Traveling great. Some people want to advocate even better. You know, like, it's just really depends on what they want to do. But I think for me, what resonated with me as like, you know, pushing the boundaries. Ryan You know, learning our history, you know, advocating, and also, like, I think the competitive drive and, you know, Filipinos love basketball, right? That Mamba mentality. You know, so like that type of, like attitude resonates with me. But I know not many people resonate with that. But I'm cool with that too. So long as, we're not hurting anyone. Ryan We're not causing war and we're just spreading peace. But then also, approaching things that, I would say a little bit more, diplomatic. Yeah. But we're not going to get into that. Tim Yeah. Christine Are you actually are you actually a Leo? Ryan A Leo? No, I'm Sagittarius. Dang. Christine Because I was like, the call to the, like, pride and the community leader stuff. I was like, yes, yes, yes, I yeah, I was, I'm a Leo. And that's the type of Leo I identify with. But that shared with the Filipino is like an insane combination. Ryan Yes. Christine It's a lot of fire. Tim Can attest being Christine's friend. Christine Sagittarius is also fire, right? I don't know yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Good enough, close enough, close enough. Ryan Okay. We'll take it I. Tim I guess, Christine, before you go to your kind of questions about Chicago Climbs because I know you want to talk about that, that book you mentioned, "America Is in the Heart" Carlos Bulosan that book I had read, like, in like ten years ago when I was studying abroad. Funnily enough, I was studying abroad in Korea. Tim And, like, our Asian American studies teacher introduced that to us. And I read it like, as a 20 year old, you know, our 21 year old or something like that, I read, I reread that like a couple of years ago. And then I totally realized, like, Carlos literally just is trying to work in America, make a living, and his friends are getting shot and that he's just like, go to the next town. Ryan Find work. Exactly. I'm working. Tim And then I'm like, not allowed here that I'm advocating with the homies, and then my homies get shot and then, yes, moving on. And the book ends, you know, the book ends with him still being optimistic about a life, a better life in America. And it's it's just crazy to see how many, how many atrocities he had been through just to literally survive here. Tim You know, so, anyway, I'm, I'm really glad you mentioned that book. Christine I know, and when you mentioned that book. But, like, I got flashbacks, I'm like, I know I, I either read or listen to the audiobook and I had to, like, look up, some of the stories from it. But now it's like jogging my memory. Yeah. Because I remember he had worked in Alaska too right? Yeah. So I recently learned, so I'm like, working part time for Istorya which is this pop up restaurant in Vegas. Christine But they do Filipino. Yeah, they do. So I'm actually at the office right now, but they do Filipino pop up dinners. And one of the items on the menu is salmon sisig. And one of the things we've been telling our patrons is the reason why we use sisig is because there actually is that Filipino American like history component there, where, Filipinos were recruited to Alaska to work in the canneries, and they loved salmon so much that they started importing it back to the Philippines. Christine Because some people ask, like, why do you sisig instead of bagus, Ryan Christine or pork. Ryan Yeah. No, I hear you. But yeah, that's awesome. I love sisig so it's been a while. I need to get some sisig soon. Christine So, going back to talking about, advocacy and then the Chicago climbing community. I know that you work with Chicago climbs. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? Ryan Yeah. So Chicago Climbs came about during the pandemic, my good friend Alex Taylor, and Ivy Leung among others, like with, with so Alex had this idea of like, how can we like, incorporate or how can we like he had this vision of like, Memphis Rox, like, how can we have that in Chicago? Like a nonprofit climbing gym, right. Ryan So we started brainstorming some ideas. And at that time I used to work for a youth development program, and we were like, hey, let's start off with, like, serving the youth in Chicago. How can we, like, target the underserve youth and get them into rock climbing? And that's where it's all started, literally just like having conversations. And this was like people who were, had had us, an attitude to serve, also had an attitude that loves rock climbing. Ryan Like, we just want to show rock climbing. And we all met, an adaptive rock climbing because Ivy and Alex, were volunteers for Adaptive Climbing Group and also participant. And we all just became good friends and, yeah. So we started doing that. And, I think it was like 2022 and, yeah, Alex and Ivy are holding it down in Chicago, making really great, strides there. Ryan And we offer, rock climbing programs for, for youth. And it's a paid stipend. In Chicago. And we partner with Afterschool Matters to make that happen. We also provide, outdoor, climbing. So, like, they would, we would take them to, What is that crag Christine in Wisconsin escaping my memory? Christine Neseda? No, Devils Lake. Ryan Not. Christine No Christine Devils Lake, Ryan The Red? Devils Lake. Yes. Yeah. So we would take them there. We also provide, outdoor climbing workshops, and we also partner with other affinity rock climbing groups in Chicago to really, like, think about like, youth as well. And how can we capture the youth and really instill, like the stewardship of rock climbing right from like, Leave No Trace to also like adaptive climbing. Ryan And just like all the things about the good things about rock climbing and how can we, like, share that with them and teach them. And we also have phenomenal instructors like Matt Moy and Kale and so many others that really, like, teaches them, like, you know, like, yeah, the techniques of rock climbing, but then also like the not climbing part of rock climbing and how to be a good person. Ryan So that's what it's really it's all about. And, we're continuing to grow and, we want to continue to engage more young people across Chicago to be part of this phenomenal program. And, so, yeah, I enjoy rock climbing and, we really enjoy this, nonprofit. And, yeah. So I'm just very fortunate to have a really great team that's rolling up their sleeves and just, you know, really, they are really, buying into the mission and division of Chicago Climbs. Christine So you were one of the founders for the organization? Ryan Yeah. Christine And now taking a back seat since you've moved to Salt Lake? Ryan Yes, I had taken a back seat. But I will certainly reengage with my responsibilities, and, Yeah, but it's just hard to like, you know, be there because I'm not there. A lot of their programing is in person. I used to, like, teach when I was, there, and I would attend the meet ups in any tabling that we would do and, be part of, like, when we would have, like, the grantee events, you know, show face and talk to those donors. Ryan That has been generous to us. But right now it's just been really tough because I'm focused on my own climbing journey. Because when I was doing that part, I was more of, like, focus on the back end of, like, the climbing. And how can we provide a platform for young people to climb and really put a lot of energy to that. Ryan But I've shifted my energy. But, I want to find a better balance of how I can continue to, like, be part of that. Virtually per se. Christine When. Yeah. Sorry. Tim I'll let you get to your question. I think one thing I've, learned about this, too, is like, and talking to others who also do some kind of advocacy or organizing or just any sort of support around climbing is like that balance you're talking about, Ryan. Where you. It's it for me, at least, it's important for me to make time to climb for myself. Tim And sometimes I feel very selfish. But, it fuels me to do this podcast, and it fuels me to like, yes, like you. It fuels me to like, you know, just like, do the work I enjoy. I feel like the both need to, for me at least, like both need to exist in my life for it to feel like full. Tim And I know when talking to community organizers, like when they're climbing, when they feel like they haven't really been making time for the things they love, climbing or not, it it can lead to burnout, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it's great that you're talking about, like, finding a balance for sure, but, Christine, I want to go to you. Tim Wanted to get to a question, so. Christine Yeah, I guess on that note. And, like, this kind of ties back into what you were talking about before, like, balancing, like, extrinsic motivations and intrinsic motivations. Was there any experience or like, any stories from working with Chicago Climbs when, I guess when you were more active working with them, that was something that was kind of pivotal for you or like served as that intrinsic motivation for you to, like, change the way that you approached climbing yourself or the way you advocate? Christine Yeah. Ryan Yes, absolutely. When we first started as Chicago Climbs, I think it was the summer of 2022, first after school's summer program, we interviewed a handful of students right from the Chicago Public Schools, and there's this one student, we forgot to send him an offer, like, because he had to provide an offer to, like, a slot, like, for them to participate, right? Ryan We interviewed this person we forgot to send an offer, but they remembered our our, like, our, like, orientation day, and they were the first person in that freaking, like, like to show up. And with that energy, we just had to give them a slot like in our program because like, and, so this guy fast forward from now, he is one of like, our leaders, like growing leaders in Chicago Climbs. Ryan He has and he works for the Chicago Park District now as one of like the staff basically he became so he graduate from our program. He became one of our teen instructor in the program. He also started working at the Rock Wall in Chicago with the Park District, which is now teaching our students and other people in the community. Ryan So just like that type of stoked, we're seeing this person mature, right? And this person came from, you know, like a tough background. And as I've got to learn his story, we had to, like, put our hands around him and like, kind of like, protect him, but also show him, like, hey, you can be part of this community as long as you want, right? Ryan If you just show up, you know, you just show up, we'll take care of you. And I'm just so proud of Amani, who's grown. And I actually missed him, of course, like, he's really like, you know, fun to be around, very smart. And we have so many other stories like that. Another story where, one of our participant, she's a girl. Ryan She was very shy in our program. But then when she graduated, she was really, like, her self-confidence grew. Right. And then now she's going to college and she's asked us and other people of, like, you know, other scholarships out there. Also, she asked for, like, references and just being part of that growth of someone where, you know, you've seen them grow, it's like you can't put a price on that. Ryan Right? Because you've helped them succeed. And another person, a person who has, a speech impediment. Right. He would come to, he came to our program. Just he just had a challenge with that. And then now he can speak really clearly and can articulate his words. And we use climbing as a tool to build that self confidence, build that, to use climbing as a tool for him to really grow himself. Ryan And it's just so cool. And then now his mom is thinking about him and him and his mom come visiting me here in Salt Lake, just like that type of like seeing it grow, seeing the impact of it and then like it made me realize or like, you know, like because of their, growth, it in me also made me realize, like, I also have more, more, more growth and, hopefully, whenever that time comes, like, you know, I can, go back and, you know, inspire and grow our mission more and just continue to, like, expand the organizations, impact. Ryan But, those stories really resonates with me. And I'm sure there's other stories out there that I, I'm forgetting, but, just seeing the young, the young people's growth. Because, like, they come in, they're afraid. They're not so sure. Some of them, they're stuck, but they don't really have the technical, you know, stuff. But then they're asking all these questions, and then you finish this program with them. Ryan And now you see them as like buddies, right? They come, they start off as strangers and then, they're just, like, helping each other. They're sharing beta. They're going they're hanging out after the programs. They're doing their own thing as teens and like that. That's just like, that's just love right there. And that's just like, you know, that's just we're just blessed to be part of this program and just to be part of climbing in general. Christine Thank you for sharing that. I think, like, I, I love that this program is happening in Chicago. I've seen so much growth happen in the Chicago community. There's so many more affinity groups than when we started climbing. Because I think we met back in I think 2018, 2018, 2019 and from then. Yeah. What like Sending in Color started in 2018. Christine And so that was one of the first, diversity, affinity spaces. Right. And now we have Asian climbing collective, Latino outdoors, Onyx rising. Like Ryan We have, Climb Big. Christine Climb Big. Yeah. And then both of, adaptive climbing groups have kind of been around for a while, but I feel like they've been getting more support and there's been other organizations partnering with them. So it's just been really cool to see that grow. And I don't I don't know if that's just specific to Chicago, but it feels special also to hear you say, like, you're still in contact with these people. Christine I'm still mentoring them. Even when you've moved away. So I, I, I'm curious, like, is there someone in your life, in your climbing journey that's been a mentor for you that, kind of filled that role for you when you first started climbing out, I guess. Ryan Oh, that's a good question. I feel like as I've gone, you know, like I've been climbing for 11 years now, so, like, for me, like, like I had mentors in general, just like, you know, but then, like, from a climbing perspective, I just want to surround myself with, like, people who are like, with positive attitude climbers, people who are strong, but then also people who just want to try hard and just have fun climbing. Ryan So this surrounding myself with that, I think it's been has been really healthy for me. But there's no particular like, no like particular person that, like, has mentored me into, like, rock climbing. I've had phenomenal coaches in Chicago, like Kevin Young, and Al and so much more like Max who's like, where? I'm just like, see them climb. Ryan I'm just like, Holy crap. Like just like. And. All right. And then we have some, like, amazing paraclimbers here in Salt Lake City. And, just like looking up to those leaders, like Mo Beck like Brian. Z, Ben Mayforth, who's, like, pushing the limits of paraclimbing. And they're, like, considered to be professional paraclimbers. Ryan And there's not many of them. So I wouldn't necessarily like a mentor, but then I see them and I see them as a friend. I see them as also like part of this community that wants to grow this community. And we all have a different ways of doing that. But I feel like we're all in the same page of like, what we want this community to grow. Ryan So yeah, yeah. Tim That's cool to hear. And, I appreciate you shouting out, Chicago climbs and the other, affinity groups you mentioned, it's it's good to hear them shout it out here. I want to go to your maybe back to your Filipino identity, and then, we can get it to kind of what you're looking ahead towards, like, what's next for you? Tim So how has being Filipino shaped your journey in climbing and in advocacy? You touched on this a little bit, but I'd love to hear a little bit more. Ryan I think just being Filipino, you know, whoever I'm climbing with, I just want to get to know them. Right. Being curious about them just welcoming them with open hands, like the way I would do with anybody. And I think it's just my own unique style. But I think that just because I'm Filipino also like if I have anything to share, I, I'm sharing it with a if they want to, you know, but I'm not just going to force it to them. Ryan And then I think just like, yeah, like so what was your question again? I'm sorry. Tim Yeah. No. It's cool. How has being Filipino shaped your journey as a climber and as an advocate? Ryan Yeah. So, like for me, when I see other Filipino climbers, like, stoked! Yeah. Like, oh, you're Filipino, I'm Filipino. And, like, I have the tattoo on my left arm of, like, the Filipino like star. Christine Uyy Philippines! Ryan Yeah. Philippines. So then things. Yeah. Yeah. So then, like, what other Filipino climbers see me? Yeah. No, we just, like, talk about being a Filipino climber and start speaking Tagalog if, if they know how to speak Tagalog. Tim Do you speak Tagalog? Ryan Ryan Opo! Tim Oh, nice. Opo! Tim Nice. Ryan Yeah. So polite, Ryan Yeah. Like, just like embracing them, welcoming them and just acknowledging them, right. Like, you know, we're here, like, let's freaking go. But then I think just like having the just, like, supportive mentality. So, like, Filipinos are just very supportive and very positive. I think I just like to foster that when I'm climbing. And also when I'm just like in the crag and, yeah, people have told me like, I'm positive, but I think I'm just like just my, my nature as a Filipino. Ryan And we're just always happy to be around. But, you know, we're also human. So, you know, sometimes we get sad and have our own emotions. But I think our like, primary go to is just like, you know, like helping people and just, it's being fun to be around, I guess. But yeah, you know, we do it in our own little style. Tim Yeah. And real quick too, where, in the Philippines, where your, your parents from. Ryan So my, my parents, my mom was born in Iloilo my dad was born in Manila. And then they eventually moved to Manila. And then I grew up in Manila, and then I moved to Dipolog which is like in the Mindanao, the southern island of the Philippines. So, yeah, and I haven't been back to the Philippines since I moved to America in 2001. Ryan And hopefully we can change that. Christine We have go to Igbaras, if you're from Iloilo. If you're from Iloilo, we have to go climb there or you have to for sure. Ryan Yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely. Tim Yeah. We have been, thinking about planning a trip, which we can talk about, but, one of my. Yeah, what am I what am I dreams to do, like, some kind of, I don't know, rock and rice or just, like, even an informally organized trip of, like, Filipino climbers who are going to the Philippines and just hanging out because that's that's what it's all about. Ryan Let's freaking do it. Tim Dude. Igbaras I'll say, though, the approach, oh man, we got to work on that one for sure. You can. Ryan Yes, we'll use that. Tim Yeah. Literally Lola will be like, show us to the trailhead and then she'll be like, okay, bye bye. It's your turn now. Ryan Like what? Yeah. Tim It's hard when it gets so steep. She's like, that's for me. That's for you guys. Yeah. That's fun. Yeah. Oh. Go ahead. Christine Oh, yeah. No, I was just going to comment. Like, I feel like when there's, there are like two words. I feel like in Filipino culture that I think about a lot. And I feel like recently I've been thinking about, the second one a lot because I feel like I say Kapwa all the time, like I talk about Kapwa and like the sense of community that is kind of like intrinsic to being Filipino in our community and everything. Christine But and the other, what I've been thinking about a lot has been Bayanihan. And like what that means to me. And, you know, communally coming together to work towards a like a shared goal and there being just like intrinsic value in that, just in. Tim Yeap. Christine Coming together and helping each other out. And I feel like a lot of what you talked about today really touched on that. It's something that like, I'm always thinking about because sometimes, like I get burned how like putting out or, doing a lot for other people and sometimes, like running on E when you're doing that. But it's always worth it in the end. Christine To help. Ryan Yeah. Christine Help a friend out, help our community out. And so I know you talked a little bit about, like, are you tired? Aren't you tired that you're constantly advocating and asking for these things and and it's. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you get tired, but then the reward you get from it and helping someone else out, that's like, again, invaluable. Christine You can't be replaced. Ryan Yeah. Christine Yeah. Ryan Absolutely. Tim It's, even, like seeing, you know, you reach out to, I can't remember who you. Oh, Sean, for example, like. And then Sean you and, you know, I've heard of, like, other, like, centers in the bay reaching out to setters in Iloilo and then, granted, guest setting for their competition. Yeah. Even like listeners of the show reaching out to, like, folks in Benguet and, you know, folks in Benguet, like showing FilAms around, Ambogdolan, like that's bayanihan, like you're saying. Tim And I think that's, that's why we're here. That's why. Yeah. I don't know, like, that's why we love talking about it. Christine Yeah. Like the iconic image. Is everyone moving someone's entire house? Tim Yeah. Christine Everyone. Yeah. You're picking up a house and moving it somewhere else. Like. A lot of, you know, like, there's a lot of that reflected in a lot of the work that you do, which is really cool, I agree. Tim Yeah. And, Ryan, I guess, like what? What's next for you? Like, what are you looking forward to? You just finished paraclimbing. Are you going to be tambaying on a beach with, you know, or not on the beach? Because it's Salt Lake. But are you going to be done tambaying or chilling or, you mentioned, you know, you're kind of a leader. Tim So do you have, like, more ambitions ahead? Ryan Yeah. So my long term goal is to like, find all the roadside crags in the world documenting it, climbing with people about, sharing the story, the significance, the historical significance of that particular crag. Because I feel like, you know, I think, well, for me, like for people with disabilities to watch a rock climb is just easier for them to do that. Ryan But then also like there's also other able bodied climbers who just wants to like, do a small approach and just start rock climbing. Right. So that's like my long term goal. And so this year I want to do more roadside crags. And I'm going, I've been like, plotting some stuff that I'm going to be pursuing, this year and climbing more of that. Ryan And then my short term goal this year is just doing some local competitions, in the US, hopefully, maybe doing some world climbing, competition. But, it's mahal you know what I mean? This paraclimbing stuff, they don't give you money, but you do it for the love, right? Ryan Yeah. Ryan So. Yeah. But yeah. So, like, maybe doing some, international comp, but not yet, but in the meantime, I'm just going to continue to train, this week and next week, it's just going to be my deload week. Ryan Just find me for myself. I've been on this like, freaking six week cycles of training and climbing and not climbing and training is just I need to like, climb for myself and remind myself why I want to climb. Because I don't want to get burnt out. But yeah. So I'm excited for that. And just yeah, just do more outdoor climbing. Ryan Last year was the first year where I've done so many outdoor rock climbing compared to when I was in Chicago. Christine, because it's just more accessible here than Chicago. And, so hopefully you all get to visit me or I get to visit you all and we all can hang out and climb indoor or outdoor or just even share a meal together. Ryan I would love to do that. So that's basically the long term and the short term goal for now. Tim Awesome, Ryan. Well, maraming salamat for joining the show. Where can people find you and follow your journey? Ryan Yes, you can find me at me, they can find me at @ryjuguan and so @ryjuguan. And, so that's my Instagram name. And, more than happy to connect with, people in the Philippines or whoever that might be who are interested to go in paraclimbing or just wants to talk about rock climbing in general and share some roadside crags that, I should visit and if you all want to visit some roadside crags here in Salt Lake, Utah area. Ryan Feel free to reach out. Tim Cool. Ryan. Well, thank you so much. It's been, It's been a pleasure. Ryan Salamat po! Tim Salamat. You too Tim and Christine.