8. Our FIRST Interview! (Secret Guest): Vocal Nodes, Healing Your Throat Chakra, and Using Your Voice

In this powerful episode, we’re joined by a SECRET guest who shares her incredible journey of overcoming vocal nodes, healing her throat chakra, and using her voice to transform her life. From not feeling heard as a child to becoming a highly sought-after vocal coach, she now helps others find their authentic voices through her program, Sing From Your Soul. Tune in to discover how vocal healing can empower you and learn the deeper connection between your voice and self-expression. If you’ve struggled with vocal challenges or want to reclaim your voice, this episode is for you!

00:00 Introduction and Guest Reveal
01:22 Our Guest's Background and Career
01:59 The Scar and Its Impact
05:30 Journey to Healing and Empowerment
10:32 Tools for Vocal and Emotional Healing
22:35 Spiritual Gifts and Intuition
28:59 Childhood Anecdotes and Reflections
34:00 Conclusion and Farewell

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to Success Through Scars. The podcast where we turn our most painful struggles into our greatest success stories. I'm Annie Calvineso, a multi passionate entrepreneur, business mentor, and professional singer who's overcome anorexia, CPTSD, depression, and anxiety. Each week, you'll hear powerful stories of resilience from people who have transformed their deepest pains into testimonies of strength. If you're feeling lost or broken, but have big goals, you're in the right place. Whether your scar comes from a traumatic past, a break up, A near death experience or a mental health struggle, remember this, your scars are proof that you survived, and scar tissue rebuilds and repairs itself, and you come out stronger on the other side. I hope this podcast can bring you the hope you need to keep going. Let's walk this journey of finding success through scars together. Hello, hello! Welcome to the first ever podcast interview for Success Through Scars, and I am keeping this title a little bit of a secret because my guest today, you might see in the description actually, my guest today is the closest person in my life And, you might hear giggling, because it is my twin sister, Gracie Calvineso, who is also an entrepreneur. And, we have very similar lives, obviously. But she has a unique story that I want her to share. And, for those of you who don't know her work, I want to share her work with you because it's very important and very impactful. And, I know that it'll help people who are going through something similar, so. Welcome! Thank you! And Grace did not answer my interview questions, so we have no We have We have no jumping off points, so I have ADHD and I forgot! So, we're just gonna wing it? And it's gonna be great, and I'm gonna try to ask the usual questions, but I don't have any usual questions since this is my first ever podcast interview, so it's a great one to start with. So, I actually have a list of questions, I'm gonna pull them up. Okay, so, Gracie, please introduce yourself for people in my audience who don't know you yet. Please just introduce yourself, share who you are, what you do, all the things. Okay. Hi guys. I'm Gracie. I'm Annie's twin sister. I hope that people can differentiate between our voices on this podcast. We'll see. Hopefully they will. So I'm Gracie. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, and I am a pop artist, songwriter, intuitive vocal coach, and life coach. Yes. So, what would you say is your scar? Cause you know this podcast is called Success Through Scars. For those who are listening and not to make you cry, Gracie, but, Gracie is the reason why I survived. What I went through because she was the one who called the ambulance to take me to the hospital if you haven't heard my story Yet, it's the very first episode so Gracie, what would you say your scar is like the most challenging experience that you have faced and Usually it's something that led you to creating your business I think that's how all entrepreneurs are, honestly. So mine was that I had vocal cord surgery when I was 19, which I can't believe we're 30 already. It was like 11 years ago at this point, which is crazy. I. Kind of, we grow up as women, I think, in environments where we feel like we have to silence ourselves and silence our voices. I've had a lot of obstacles in my life that led me to believe that my voice wasn't important, what I had to say wasn't important, that nobody cared about me, nobody cared about what I had to say, and that manifested in my body as I wanted to say including my boundaries, including sharing what I thought and sharing what I was passionate about. And even like, doing what I wanted to do. Like, in college, as you guys all know, we're identical twins and being a twin is such a blessing. But it's also very difficult because when you're a twin you are constantly compared to the other person. You Yeah, and we've both dealt with that and I felt a lot of the times I felt lesser than and I know you've experienced this too where you just felt like people were comparing us all the time and that's what led to your scar. And so I felt the same way, but with my voice cause I was a little bit more shy, I think a little more reserved than you were as kids. I needed a little bit more like nurturing and that just created this, I guess, environment for me where I didn't feel safe to share my voice and I didn't feel confident a lot as a kid. And. When I went to college, I ended up studying classical voice even though honestly I really wanted to study like songwriting and pop music, but I just did that because I was like, Oh, Annie's doing that. That's what I should do. And in college, I was a huge people pleaser. Like I was going out drinking and partying all the time and just looking for worthiness in other people all the time and tightening my throat and shouting over loud music. And I did not have a good vocal technique at all. And I was also anxious and angry all the time and tighten my throat constantly. And that led to me having vocal polyps, which at the time it felt like my life was over. My career was over. I wanted to be an opera singer. Or so I thought, and they told me that I probably wouldn't be able to do that because my voice would have a scar, like literally there would be a scar on my vocal cords. Which actually, I'm happy to say that the surgery went so well and my vocal cords are pristine now. But at the time it felt like just. My life was over, and so I had the vocal cord surgery, which actually forced me to go inward and reflect on my life and learn to listen to my intuition. And that is when I discovered spirituality and manifestation, and I really started to understand that I'm in control of my life. I mean, I don't have total control. I don't believe that anybody does. I think that there's a higher power guiding us, but I started to realize that I could really change my life and I started to understand how Our emotions get stored in our bodies, and it's like the book, The Body Keeps the Score, right? Everybody's heard of that book, how it talks about how our emotions are stored in different energy points in our bodies. And I realized I was holding so much anger in my throat, and anxiety, and it was like the energy of all of the things that I didn't say, it was like stuck in my throat. And so I started speaking up more and getting empowered and I started to just live my life for me. I actually switched my major to be a Bachelor of Arts in Music, so a general music degree. I switched voice teachers because I was studying with this very strict opera teacher, who was kind of mean. She was not very nice to me. She actually told me one time, she's like, if you can't get your tongue forward when you say your ah vowel, you might as well just quit singing. And I was like, alright. Fuck this. Oh my gosh, I didn't know she said that to you. That's horrible. Isn't that awful? That's awful. I am not studying with you anymore. I switched to the musical theater teacher, Stephanie Michaels, who is amazing. And I started, I was attending Oakland University, by the way, in Metro Detroit. And I started taking composition lessons with Terry Herold and I changed my whole degree and my career. When everybody else was doing their senior recitals, I did a recital of original songs that I wrote. And I was so proud of it because I put instruments to my music and it was just the coolest thing ever. And then I was like, okay, this is what I want to do. At the same time, I had gotten an offer to teach general music classes and voice lessons at a grade school. And so I was doing that and I fell in love with teaching. And so I decided that I wanted to move to Nashville and pursue a career in songwriting and being an artist. And actually at the time I thought I wanted to be a country artist and I was writing a lot of country songs. But I really just wanted to share my voice and share my thoughts and share my vulnerabilities. And instead of letting my voice be shut down, I decided that I was going to let my voice be louder. And so I started writing songs even more, and I started sharing what I was passionate about. And I loved teaching. And so when I moved to Nashville, I started my own voice lesson business. And oh, the part of my story I forgot to mention is that when I was in Michigan, I was doing a lot of yoga, which helped me to connect inward and connect spiritually. When I moved to Nashville, I did yoga teacher training, and then I kind of combined that with singing and started my business, Mindful Singing, where I support people in finding confidence in their voices. And I live in Nashville now, and I run my business, and I'm also writing, recording, and releasing music. And I feel like I took that thing that was, you know, my biggest challenge in life, and I turned it into something that Has become my greatest blessing. Hell yeah. That was a long answer. So proud of you. And for those listening, I turned off my, my image. So Gracie couldn't see me and we couldn't laugh at each other while we were both talking. I can turn mine off too if you want. So. For those listening too, you can see that Gracie's story and my story are similar and that we do similar things, but with a little bit of a different twist on them. And what Gracie does is help people to basically heal their throat chakra, right? Yeah, and feel their emotions, like really feel what the root is that's causing them to feel like they can't be empowered in their voices. Yes, and My sister is literally the best voice teacher that I know. I have worked with lots and lots of teachers and my sister really knows her stuff. There's not a lot of people that combine the emotional aspects of singing with the technical prowess. And I think that's something that my sister does really, really well. For those listening, if you need someone who's really compassionate, you should definitely hire her. So, Gracie, I want to ask you about, for our listeners, when you were going through the things that you were going through, specifically in college, when it was like the younger version of you, and you were experiencing all this like vocal fatigue, and you didn't know what was happening, and you're like, oh my gosh, like, my life is gonna fall apart, I'm gonna lose my voice. You had this teacher who was really shitty, who wasn't supporting you. What fueled you during that time to keep going? Like that was like the, one of your lowest points, right? What fueled you to keep going? And then also What would you say to someone who's maybe in a similar place where like, they are having some vocal issues and they, maybe, maybe it's connected to their throat shock or maybe it's not, and they are feeling really stuck. Yeah. So what fueled me to keep going was my belief in myself and my faith. I was really connected to my faith at the time, and I wasn't as connected to my intuition as I am now because it was through that whole process that I learned to feel really connected to my intuition, but I still was, and I just had this knowing within my gut that I would be okay and that I would learn from this and I would come out. even stronger on the other end. And so that's what kept me going. I was, I mean, I didn't know what was happening. I was like, everything is falling apart right now. It was the, it was the worst, but I also knew that good would come out of it. And so that's what kept me going. And if you are a singer that's going through vocal fatigue, I would encourage you to let this. Be a moment of deeper healing for you. Let this be a moment of self reflection, where you really look inward and ask yourself, what am I avoiding saying? What am I holding back on? Where do I feel anxiety with the way that I speak? And that will kind of give you the answers as to where that deep healing is. Work lies because I found through my journey and with my clients that when somebody has a lot of throat tension, it's usually because they're holding back on saying what they want to say, and they don't feel worthy of their voice being heard and that's reflected in the voice. So, instead of viewing it as the end of the world, like I did at the time, let yourself view it as an opportunity for deeper self reflection and deeper healing and also know that Like technology these days with vocal cord surgery is so amazing and the surgery, I thought it was a huge deal at the time because you hear of people like Adele and John Mayer having these surgeries and it's like this taboo thing, but really having a vocal injury is like having a sports injury. Like we don't look at professional athletes and go, Oh, they're a failure because they have, you know, they tore their ACL. And we're just like, oh, that's something that happens when you are doing this activity over and over and over again, and it's a lot on the body. Yes. And singing the same way, but for some reason there's this like weird taboo in singing culture where it's like, oh, she has vocal polyps, she's doing something wrong. Yes! And I would encourage you to not look at it that way if you're experiencing this and, and just look at it as something that happens when you overuse the voice and, and possibly, you know, don't have proper technique in some areas My philosophy is that it's often when we're holding back our voices. So just use it as an opportunity to grow instead of Seeing it as the end of the world. Yeah, when you went through that did you feel shame about that? Like did you feel like you were doing something wrong? And how did you overcome the shame? Absolutely. Yeah, I felt like I was not good at singing. I was like, oh my gosh this is the only thing that I love like this is the thing I love the most in life and I'm bad at it. I failed at it. That's how I felt. But through my unique journey of understanding spirituality and the connection with emotions and going inward and listening to my intuition, I started to realize that's why. It's because I wasn't connected to my intuition. And that was being reflected in my voice. So that kind of helped me to release the shame, understanding why. Understanding why I was tightening my throat really helped me to give myself grace and compassion. I love that. And through my work with Strength for Singers, I have seen how doing physical exercises can lead to confidence and kind of transform the energy in the body. Do you find that it was kind of a similar experience with you doing all the vocal exercises that you were doing that, like, the actual physical, well I guess maybe it's not physical, but the act of doing that also helped you to become more empowered with speaking? Was it like specific exercises you did also? Yeah. It's so funny because our paths are so similar, but they're also very different. And I feel like a lot of what you've dealt with is like the masculine side of the physical stuff, you know, with weightlifting and, and all of that. For me, it was honestly more of the emotional, it was more listening to my emotions and not. Ignoring how I felt and not letting myself feel like I just randomly had severe anxiety for no reason. Which is what I think we're taught. Like, oh, you have anxiety? You need to take a pill for that. And I see the emotions as teachers. They're showing us where there's something that's out of alignment within us. And so, especially anxiety. And so, I want to say that it was Vocal exercises, and I did work with some amazing teachers that really helped me to rebuild my voice, but honestly, the connection with my emotions is what helped me the most. It was healing emotionally that helped me because when I started to actually acknowledge my anxiety. I started to feel less throat tension, and when I started to speak up and draw more boundaries, my throat wasn't tightening when I would go to speak. So, that's the biggest thing for me, was acknowledging my emotions. But you need both, right? You need the feminine and the masculine, so I acknowledged my emotions and I rebuilt my voice by working with other amazing voice teachers who helped me with the technique. I love that. So you talk a lot about Anxiety and boundaries. Do you think that those two are connected? Like, do you think that the lack of boundaries was what was leading to the anxiety? Absolutely. And also, you know, it's, it's how we grew up too. I just, the certain childhood circumstances and, you know, the way that we're taught to exist in the world led to my anxiety. But I do think that they're very much connected. Yeah, because we're gonna feel anxiety in the body when we're not honoring ourselves Right something feels off and we feel like we have to behave a certain way. Of course, it's gonna create anxiety in the body because Anxiety is just telling you something feels off. This isn't right. I Feel unsafe Yeah What do you think were your What are your biggest tools in learning how to be more empowered with speaking. Like what helped you the most? Obviously it's what you teach your clients now. It's tools that you, you came up with, right? So what really helped me was the combination of my business and writing songs that felt very authentic to me. So I wrote songs and I still do write songs about my deepest emotions. And I write about things that people normally wouldn't talk about this vulnerably. Like my first single, Attention, that was about A time when I went to a bar and I was talking to five guys and they all were at this bar and I felt like the bachelorette, but like not in a good way. And I felt a lot of confusion and shame. And I was like, why am I talking to five guys at once? Oh, it's because I feel the sense of unworthiness and I need this constant validation from these men. Like that's not something that people would normally just vulnerably talk about. But. I realized that it's not in my nature to not be vulnerable. Who I am as a person is a vulnerable person. And so with me not sharing those things, that's what was creating anxiety because I was like, I have all this stuff that I want to say and I have this work that I want to do in the world and I'm not doing it. So that really helped me to feel more empowered in my voice, to just let my voice be heard. I also started performing around Nashville and singing and That really helped too. And then some of the tools that I use with my clients, it's a combination of actual vocal technique and. Spiritual work. So a lot of the work that I do with my clients is like having them feel in the body Where the emotion is that is connected to how they're feeling for example, I was holding a ton of anxiety and anger in my throat when I connect to that It's like okay. Here's an example of that. So it's like you connect to that energy in your throat, right? And then I ask them Does that energy have a specific sensation? And this is something that I learned through yoga. It's a mindfulness practice. So, for example, the energy of anxiety in my throat could feel like a red circle that's very heavy. And so what I do is I have them sit with the sensation and just notice it, become aware of it and show it love, right? Instead of trying to push it down or tell themselves a story about that sensation, can they Gently hold the sensation and give it space and compassion to be felt and seen and heard. And that directly ties into, can they give themselves compassion and let themselves have the space to be seen and heard? Mm hmm. Yeah, it's like making what is hidden more seen. Yeah, it's shadow work, really. Yes. That's like what I do. Yes. Shadow work. And honestly, I think that a lot of times when we are spiritual entrepreneurs and we're creating businesses based on things we went through, it is the shadow work that makes us transmute that into something really powerful. I feel like a lot of people don't know how to feel intuitively into the emotion in the body because emotion in the body, and I've worked on this through my strength for singers clients and my other fitness coaching clients, actually emotion in the body can lead to disease and can lead to distress in the body. I actually was just talking about this on my stories yesterday, how. And that is the root of a lot of physical health conditions is actually mental health conditions. It's these emotions that we don't give any light to. So yeah, I'm curious if you have any more thoughts about that. Yeah, absolutely. I, my whole life have had spiritual gifts and I don't know if you probably talk about this on your podcast. Actually, I haven't talked about it at all yet. Well then here we go. So I've always been very intuitive. I felt things very deeply. I'm an empath which if those of you listening don't know what that means, it basically means you feel the emotions of others. A big piece of my journey was that I was always feeling everybody else's emotions around me and making them mean something about me. So like, we grew up with a father who worked three jobs and a mother who was constantly taking care of six children As is expected, she was stressed out a lot, and I feel like I felt a lot of her stress and anxiety, and took it on as my own, I felt the stress and anxiety of other people around me, and while that sucked, it also was a blessing in disguise, because I learned how to notice what people were feeling, and that was great. That kind of helped me to develop my intuitive abilities, although I do also believe that I was born with these intuitive abilities. I also believe that we choose the lives that we choose and we enter into these bodies knowing that we're going to learn these lessons and grow from them. All those experiences that I had as a kid were like, I was feeling other people's anxiety and anger. And helped me to develop my intuition that's a huge piece of what I use in my teaching because I can actually feel where my clients are holding on to emotional energy. I can sense it and I also get intuitive messages. I have all the clairs. So if you're listening and you don't know what those are, it's like clairvoyance. So you can see things. It's when you get knowings of things, so it's like, if you just know you know, this person needs to do this thing, right? That's clear cognizance. And then there's also clear sentience, which is probably my strongest one, which is feeling other people's emotions. So I use all of those intuitive gifts in the way that I coach people and support people. And that's what makes me unique as a vocal coach, because a lot of vocal coaches focus just on the technique and they don't ever address the person. Like my teacher that I had in college, who told me, if you don't get your tongue forward, you might as well not be a singer. What she should have asked me was. Why do you feel like you can't bring your tongue forward? What do you notice in your tongue? What emotions are you feeling when you try to bring your tongue forward? And if she would have asked me that, I would have said, Fear. I'm afraid to bring my tongue forward because I'm afraid to be loud and I'm afraid to be outspoken because I'm worried that if I'm loud and outspoken, something bad is going to happen, right? And then that would have led to deeper healing for me. And then if I would have actually acknowledged that tension in my tongue, in a, in a way that was compassionate without trying to force and push with more technique. I probably would have been able to get my tongue forward in that moment. And that's, I can successfully now say that I sing my ah vowel with my tongue forward because I did do that work. Yeah, it's like the psychosomatic response to stress and you saw that in your throat and in your tongue and in the ways that you sang. And also I just think that a lot of Mentors are not good mentors, and they can't go to the depths with people, and maybe, maybe that teacher is not a mentor, maybe she's just simply a teacher, but for me personally, I don't like to work with people who don't know how to do that inner work, and can't reflect things back, and can't create a safe environment, like if I'm gonna pay someone, they better be creating a safe environment, and they better be non judgmental, and they better not shame me. Yeah, I agree with that. And I am very proud to say that my clients, they don't only grow in their voices, they have grown spiritually. Like I've seen my clients transform their entire lives through doing this work. So it's, it's really not just about singing. It's about how you live your life and how empowered you feel in your life. As a kid, I didn't feel empowered at all. I felt like I was always hiding and I've created this career in this life for myself where I'm really allowing myself to be vulnerable and be seen and take up space and share my thoughts and be the star on stage and it's been so healing for my inner child who felt unseen and unimportant. I love that. Is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners about Your story, how you got through it, anything else? I know we kind of already touched on what you would say to someone in a similar situation, but any kind of parting words for our listeners? Hmm, I'm going to feel into my intuition on this one. I'm going to take a deep breath in. If you guys want to do this with me as you're listening, that would be cool. Let's all just inhale together. And exhale. I want to tell you, if you're listening to this, that you are so worthy of healing. You are so worthy of taking up space. You are so worthy of living a life that you love and listening to your intuition and feeling empowered. And if you don't. Know that I want you to recognize that the fact that you're listening to this means that you and I are on the same Wavelength and you're meant to listen to this. So let me be a mirror for you and show you what's also possible for you. That's beautiful. I love that Thanks, I channeled it Well, thank you for sharing and we'll see how much of this I edit out if you hear giggles in this podcast episode everyone It's because Gracie and I can never take anything seriously. Yeah, we try. I do take my work very seriously, but like, when we're in the same room and we're talking about something, I get so giggly and like, we used to get in trouble for laughing all the time. I guess the last thing that I kind of want to share is just maybe if you have a little anecdote about us in our childhood, because a lot of people that follow each of us respectively, probably Don't know of our dynamic together. I want to share a little anecdote and that is that Anytime Gracie and I were in class together We literally could not stop laughing and one time I think it was maybe in third grade, we had to pluralize things in class and There was this kid who I think he just spoke a little funny We weren't really making fun of him, but it was just funny and random and Gracie and I have always laughed about random things so we were sitting next to each other and He had to pluralize the word candy, and he goes, Candies. And, Gracie and I just were dying laughing, and we could not stop. I remember this. What'd you say? I don't remember this, like at all. You don't remember it? And people around us got in trouble because the teachers thought that those people were making us laugh. But really, Gracie and I were just Tornadoes causing ourselves to laugh incessantly about this dumb shit and actually as kids, our cousins called us the tornadoes because we would just go in rooms and have, the two of us together would have so much energy together. Now I'm seeing, now that we're both adults, we're powerful, both adults and both mediums and both highly intuitive. And have all the Claire's, because if you're listening to this, you heard Gracie say she has all the Claire's, I have all the same spiritual gifts. Gracie discovered hers first, and then I was very reluctant to discover mine, because I was very terrified. But now I'm full force into it. But anyways, growing up. People call us tornadoes because we just had so much energy and we were always laughing about the dumbest things and just literally once Gracie and I start laughing we can't stop and sometimes it's at the most inopportune times like during church or During a time when other people are being really quiet. So that's the childhood anecdote that I want to share I don't know if you have one That is so funny And you know what's weird that I was just thinking about as you were saying that My future husband's racing name is The Tornado. Did I tell you that? I did not know that. That's insane. Yeah, my, my fiance is a motorcycle racer and they call him The Tornado. So how weird is that synchronicity? That's crazy. Yeah, we would get in trouble for laughing in church. Like there was this older priest who he was the nicest guy rest in peace father joseph and he had an accent and when we were younger we like didn't understand accents and so he would be holding the bread up and like very slowly and like gently be like This is the body of Christ. And Annie and I would be laughing the whole time. And I remember one time in church, I was laughing so hard that I farted really loudly. Yeah, I know. Mom got so mad, and she was like, Quiet! Be quiet! And like, okay, you can see, people listening to that, like, even just from that, you can, you can see how like, A kid would think that their voice isn't worthy of being heard if they're like, being told to be quiet, like, wiggling and laughing, right? Not saying that like that's all my mom's fault, but like just the environment we grew up in growing up Catholic and like you had to just like be a good girl and behave. And so that, I mean, that experience led to like my deepest scar, but not in a bad way. I think it was what was meant to happen, but I think it's so funny that as kids, we were just so like, we took up so much space and we just naturally loved to and it's cool because that's who we are now. Like, we both had our scars that we worked through around like worthiness and, and taking up space cause yours is like literal, like physical space. Right. I'm feeling like you need to shrink yourself. And mine was kind of more energetic space, like feeling like I couldn't say what I wanted to say and take up space in that way. And it's so funny how, how our paths are so similar but we've both turned into very Powerful women. Like we're 30 now and I'm, I'm so proud of myself and I'm so proud of you and I'm so proud of us with where we're at now. And I, I feel like those little girls that were sitting in church laughing and farting. They would be proud of us too. I think so too. That is a beautiful note to end things on. Thank you for joining Gracie. And. Please share where people can find you, and also if you are listening to this, go listen to the Vocal Empowerment Podcast as well, because that is Gracie's podcast, and you're just gonna start a new season, right? Yeah, probably next month. Took a little pause, but I'm excited to come back, and I also have music on Spotify, Apple YouTube, it's really any streaming platform. I've got five songs out that you can listen to. And then if you want to follow me on all the socials, it's just at Gracie Calvineso. And then if you are looking for a holistic vocal coach I am accepting new clients and I'm so excited to announce That the third round of my signature group program, Sing From Your Soul, is going to be starting very soon. So if you're looking for a space of like minded women who support each other in growing in confidence in their voice, reach out! I would love to hear more about you and see how I can support you. Yay! Thanks, Gracie. And one more little anecdote that maybe the audience won't really understand, but I'm going to share it anyways because this is how I want to end the podcast. One time Gracie and I were in class in high school, and our math teacher was a really funny guy. And before we left, he said, Everyone, enjoy your Tuesday evening! And just the way he said it was so funny. So, Gracie and I all the time will just say to each other, like, Enjoy, like, whatever day it is. Enjoy your Wednesday evening, so if you're listening to say weird stuff like that all the time. Yeah, so if you're listening to this, I would like to say, I had It was an immense pleasure having you here, and Yes. Enjoy your Wednesday evening. I enjoyed this conversation immensely.