Diary of a Matchmaker

Unfiltered Reflections From Our Living Room

• Halal Match • Episode 63

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 32:41

This episode isn’t polished. It’s not prepped. It’s just raw. We hit record and asked each other honest questions about our marriage, no script, no filters. What unfolded was a vulnerable, improvised conversation about love, fears, cultural differences, and everything in between. If you’re single and wondering what actually matters in a marriage, beyond the lists and bios, this is for you. Real talk, real lessons, and maybe a few surprises that’ll shift how you think about compatibility and connection.

If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!


Welcome to Diary of a Matchmaker

Speaker 1

Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba. And I'm Zaid, you're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.

Speaker 2

A podcast that will take you into our world as matchmakers.

Speaker 1

We'll share our experiences and offer advice for the single Muslim.

Speaker 2

So let's dive in. Bismillah, assalamu alaikum everyone, welcome to another episode. My name is Zaid and on the other mic is my wife and co-host.

Speaker 1

Hiba Assalamu alaikum.

Speaker 2

So alhamdulillah, we had a relatively short courting phase it was about a month and a half and during that time we got to know each other pretty well. I'd say we spent a lot of time talking, asked each other a lot of questions and, yeah, of course, we had a great time, but we realized that obviously we couldn't meet each other. It was all virtual. So if we were serious about this, there was a lot we had to cover.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

So, inshallah, we're going to reflect on that journey and hopefully you guys take away some nuggets from that.

Speaker 1

I feel, actually, that it was a blessing that we were you could say courting virtually, you could say courting virtually like if we were at the same place and we were meeting. Then we might have just spent the time I don't know sipping coffee and talking about the weather or silly stuff or no, like there was a sense of urgency, I guess yes, I think the urgency was the fact that we had a scheduled date to meet in person and we had been talking so long prior to that.

Speaker 2

So we had to make a decision like are we serious? And if we are serious, then we have to tie the knot, because that was that was going to be the opportunity for us to meet, and I don't know if you would have had another opportunity to meet after that yeah, you're right so if you guys don't know the details of the story, go to episode one and listen to that episode. But um so tell me what's one thing you were secretly worried about before getting married, but didn't admit until later maybe the cultural differences.

Speaker 1

I wasn't worried about it, like I was excited to marry into a different culture, but I also was like stepping into an unknown territory for me. To me, Okay. And also I knew how kind your mom was. But still, I was moving to a new country, to a new family.

Speaker 2

You hardly knew her, though you spoke to her like once you told me about her.

Speaker 1

Okay and uh, just leaving my family and leaving my, my country, and just moving to a new, across the ocean, a new continent that fear.

Speaker 2

I can understand new family being alone here.

Speaker 1

I don't know anyone here. New culture that felt too much At one point.

Speaker 2

So I sold myself pretty well.

Speaker 1

You sold yourself pretty well, we were very compatible. I'm like how often is this Gonna come around?

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah, alhamdulillah, everything turned out to be A blessing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, okay Cool what about you? For me. Uh, the one fear I had, I would say, was um the language barrier, um english. What I mean? Obviously you're fluent English, but it wasn't your first language and I think, beyond that, it was just acceptance into your family.

Speaker 1

Like.

Speaker 2

I'm a brown guy. I don't speak Arabic. Arabs usually don't marry brown people. It's not really culturally acceptable. So I think if there was one fear, it would have been acceptance. Okay, yeah, I'll be honest.

Speaker 1

I hope reality proved you wrong, of course I stayed with your parents for five weeks.

Speaker 2

Yeah, your parents have been more than nice to me. يبخت من زار وخفف. Oh, yes.

Speaker 1

To any non-Arabic speakers. It means like light guest is a good guest, like don't overstay your welcome yes, that was one proverb I learned and I said frequently okay, question for you what is one thing you think you missed out by not marrying a brown girl?

Speaker 2

oh, easy the food food the food. Obviously I do miss my food sometimes but like you're deprived of your food. True, however it's, it's a blessing, because, uh, desi food isn't exactly the healthiest food yeah, exactly, exactly know, everybody knows that the best diet out there is the Mediterranean diet.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 2

So I lucked out, but I do still miss my chicken curry and my butter chicken.

Speaker 1

But here you got three things. First of all, you're a good cook.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I can cook. All right yeah. I make a killer dalmachni you've made it once in your life, but it was killer. You think you deserve the gold medal or something.

Speaker 1

I nailed it though no, but I cook some dishes like three hours but I cook some desi dishes and on top of that your mom lives across the street and she's a great cook.

Speaker 2

She's an awesome. She hates having us over. Okay, that's an exaggeration, yeah we just came back, but and there are a lot of like friends around us who make great food yes, but I can't go to my friend's house all the time and say give me desi food, because my wife doesn't know how to cook desi food. Okay, I guess, anyways, um, okay, how about? For you was all right. Here's a good question. Sure, was it aversion towards arab men that made you look outside your culture?

Speaker 1

oh god be honest um no, not really, because I was like out of. That's a different question now, but I was engaged to an Arab man before, so I don't have. It's not like I'm averse to Arab men.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

But do I prefer not marrying an Arab man? Yes, am I happy I didn't marry an Arab man?

Speaker 2

Yes, Okay, care to elaborate? On the point that you prefer non-arab men well, I don't want people to hate.

Speaker 1

I don't want arab listeners to hate me.

Speaker 2

You're supposed to be open and transparent on this podcast.

Speaker 1

Okay, I guess, I guess, um. So I'm not generalizing. I don't like to generalize, but some arab men, some cultures, are known to be a little bit controlling. Uh, some are narrow-minded. Again, I'm not generalizing I'm out of myself.

Speaker 2

Stop trying to caveat your points, just say it okay, I'm out of myself.

Speaker 1

Uh, yeah, um, yeah, just closed-mindedness, controlling, not adventurous, just routine. They love routine, stuck in their own ways or like you know what. The word I'm looking for is hard to change. They don't like to change. And some of them can't admit when they're wrong.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I actually can agree to some of those points based on what I'm seeing as a matchmaker Arab men. I've said this in a previous episode Arab men are the hardest to work with. I can just think of a very recent example. So yeah, I can always see certain patterns, like you said, controlling, sometimes sexist or misogynistic in some cases, but there is like this recurring pattern with out of men that I always see yeah, but I'm sure you find this also in other cultures.

Speaker 1

But because this is my culture, I'm familiar with my culture, so I'm able to identify this in my culture okay, all right. Okay, I want an honest answer to this one.

Speaker 2

Okay, I'm always honest.

Speaker 1

I know, okay, did you reply to my message? Just because I have a fair skin.

Our Virtual Courting Experience

Speaker 2

That played a part.

Speaker 1

Oh wow, that was easy.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'll be honest, guys are driven by two things Food and physical beauty.

Speaker 1

Simple creatures. Simple creatures.

Speaker 2

And obviously I didn't see a burger when I saw your profile. I saw your face and you have a pretty face and I'm attracted to fair-skinned girls. So, yes, that did play a part. And so I think and most guys would probably agree to this that guys start with the profile picture first and then they probably go to the profile and, um, and I'm pretty sure I did that, and when I saw that you had a interest in the arts and that you were, uh, that you loved classical music, I'm like this is it? I mean like that wasn't like the the, the seal, right, but like all, right, this is enough for me to want to continue conversations, okay, and rest is history okay, so if I get a tan tomorrow, will you change your mind?

Speaker 2

I don't think you'll turn brown skin. You won't turn into like an indian pakistani if you get a tan actually I'll, I'll get red, I'll burn, burn.

Speaker 1

Yeah, my skin will burn.

Speaker 2

Okay, all right, all right.

Speaker 1

Okay, guys, I hope this is not too weird for you.

Speaker 2

Were your parents initially resistant to me because I was from another culture?

Speaker 1

Honestly, no, I wouldn't lie. No, they weren't, because I made them fall in love with you before they even met you.

Speaker 2

But I don't speak arabic. I'm not. I'm not arab, I'm not even white. I don't make the arab food well, arab men don't cook anyway. So that's true, okay so let's exclude that point. Yeah, so I didn't have any of the typical factors that would work in your favor.

Speaker 1

Maybe if it was somebody else then they would have questioned it, but me particularly. They trust my judgment, like especially once I became older, they really trust my judgment. We have this relationship of like just openness, friendship, you could say. And of course they asked me questions. They made sure this and that it's not. Like I just told them, oh, there's this guy and I'm going to marry this guy, and they were like okay, congratulations. No, of course they asked questions and made sure that this is the right decision.

Speaker 2

Was there any resistance to you moving to Canada?

Speaker 1

Not resistance? Just what is the right word. Sadness. Okay, there was sadness Because I only have one sister.

Speaker 2

She's married.

Speaker 1

She lives an hour away from my parents. My parents are in their old age and I'm very close to my parents, so it was just sadness, just the emptiness they're going to feel.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

But no, there was a resistance.

Speaker 2

On the contrary, Okay, yeah, okay, some fun.

Speaker 1

Enough with the contrary. Okay, yeah, okay. Some fun. Enough with the serious questions, some fun. What is one thing you did to impress me that? Now, if you look back on it, you'll think it was so unnecessary or like it was silly.

Speaker 2

One thing I did to impress you. I don't think anything I did to impress you was silly.

Speaker 1

Not necessarily silly, but like unnecessary or like it was extra, I guess.

Speaker 2

Everything I did was intentional, as far as I recall.

Speaker 1

So I'll give a few examples.

Speaker 2

I remember writing Arabic poetry on a card and giving it to you I remember we first met in chicago. Yes, I remember that. I remember um buying a book, uh, from one of your favorite mufassers oh, that's a great book.

Speaker 1

That's a lemakshari, oh my god. Yes, so it wasn't easy to find it was not, it was not easy to find.

Speaker 2

So all these small things were intentional, um, because I wanted, because to me a gift should be sentimental and it should have some deep value to it. So, um, everything. I can't think of any silly thing, or like even thinking back now, that was, you know, silly.

Speaker 1

Actually, any gift, that was silly, I mean actually, this is something I've always admired about you, like your gifts are intentional, which shows me that you listen, that you're not just getting a gift for the sake of like getting a gift, but it's something you know I'm excited for, looking like it would mean something to me, so, yeah, that's great. Uh, okay, actually that's a tip for you girls if you're talking to this guy, you're, you're in your courting phase, you're engaged um, just uh, observe what kind of gifts he gives you. Are they like, do they carry a meaning, or?

Speaker 2

yeah, that's a good point is he listening or or not, I guess okay, what was a totally unexpected compatibility factor between us that you only discovered after marriage?

Speaker 1

uh, that's a very good question. I would say love for intellectual discussions. I mean, we had a lot of discussions when we were courting, but they weren't intellectual, they were more geared like to assess compatibility so they were about our lives, our personalities, our like preferences and goals and stuff.

Speaker 1

But after we got married and we started, like I don't know, watching lectures together, attending conferences uh, watching politics and being involved in many different projects, so and every time we would have a discussion and I just love the thought process that we go through and like how we agree sometimes, how we disagree sometimes, how we have different outlooks, sometimes on specific matters.

Speaker 2

So, yeah, I really love that like yeah, I remember those days when we were watching bayena videos or we would just watch other youtube videos and stuff and then we would just have a conversation about what we saw. Yeah, I remember those days. That was fun.

Pre-Marriage Fears and Expectations

Speaker 1

Yeah, that was fun actually a lot of like clients they put on their registration forms. Something they're looking for is someone who can have conversations and discussions on different uh, like on a variety of topics, someone who enjoys intellectual discussions and long, long conversations and stuff. Like there's a substance you're not just talking about. Okay, what are we cooking tomorrow? Where are we going? I don't know how our financials are doing, like yeah, those things get old it gets stressful sometimes yeah, for sure uh, okay, an awkward question.

Speaker 1

What was your mom's first reaction when you told her about me, before she met me, before we spoke, or anything?

Speaker 2

you were an immigration scam, yeah sounds like your mom yeah, mom was convinced that you were using me for immigration purposes and uh, yeah, that, uh, I thought mom was joking first, but then I saw the look on her face and I'm like, okay, mom thinks I'm really getting scammed here. And you know, like, yeah, I was just about to say that the idea isn't that far fetched, because these things happen. Actually, it happens the other way around, where the guy usually scams the girl, yeah and, but you never know, it could also happen to guys too. I'm sure those, those situations happen, yeah, and, but you never know it could also happen to guys too. I'm sure those, those situations happen. So, yeah, I had to schedule a Skype call and then she got to talk to you and she felt at ease, and then we got the ball rolling for our nikah and that was it.

Speaker 1

So you didn't have like to convince her.

Speaker 2

Not really. I think you won her over on the Skype call somehow.

Speaker 1

I don't know what you said. I was so nervous on that call because it felt like an interrogation.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but you never know, maybe once I get my passport, things will change.

Speaker 2

Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1

Never say never. Hey, if you have a story to tell, we'd love to have you on here. You'll find a safe space of listeners who can understand what you're going through.

Speaker 2

What's something about being married that no one prepared you for?

Speaker 1

The fact that I have to cook every single day.

Speaker 2

You were used to cooking, though.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but I used to cook like a large pot of muzadara or whatever to be able to eat it for like six, seven days.

Speaker 2

Oh. God, oh, and one more thing I don't require a new dish every single day.

Speaker 1

No, oh, okay Actually. And one more thing I don't require a new dish every single day. No, oh, okay Actually. That's the thing. It's not about marriage itself, but it's about the cultural differences. So I didn't know that you guys eat lunch and eat dinner. Yes, and it has to be a different food, different type of food, different dish.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

We don't have this in the Middle East. We have breakfast, which is usually light unless it's a weekend, and we have lunch. We don't have dinner oh my god we and, like you, if somebody in the family gets hungry in the evening, you have a light snack, a sandwich, fruit or tea or something, but we don't have dinner and the main meal of the day is lunch. But you guys have lunch and have dinner like this is too much for for a wife to do no man, I can't believe you guys don't have dinner.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's actually healthier, is it?

Speaker 1

of course it is because you should go to bed light. That's why you have the main meal, something in the evening yeah, like I don't know, fruit, a snack, but not the meal. Like you guys have this the main meal of the day is dinner that's true.

Speaker 2

Yeah, dinner should be light, you're right. Okay, question for you if you were giving advice to someone who's overthinking their list, what would our story help them realize?

Speaker 1

That perfection doesn't exist.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you can ask for everything you want, but you're not going to get somebody who meets all of that, who checks all those boxes. It just doesn't exist, just like you don't check anyone's boxes all of their boxes. But, I feel like this is a cliche that we've repeated like 100 times so far, but I really can't think of a better way to say it.

Speaker 1

If you are clear on your values, values, then let that guide your decision, because no one is gonna fulfill every desire you want in a spouse okay but if the most important things are there, then the other things could be compromised on, and a lot of things we think we want right now are circumstantial, like for example for example, you want somebody who's like financially established, who's who like it's already there that drives me nuts but that's circumstantial, because somebody could get there if they have the drive and the ambition we just ran into that situation recently actually yeah and it really drives me crazy how girls want the finished product some don't generalize, I'm

Speaker 2

not generalizing, but, come on, we've seen it on more than one occasion, right, where girls like sometimes, in some cases, explicitly put on the form that I want a guy who earns 80k, 80k plus, and so what drives me crazy is that there's an not with all girls, but a good number of girls that I've come across as a professional matchmaker that just don't show a willingness to support right, whether the guy is, you know, striving to become a business owner, is in school, unemployed, whatever it might be. Where, where is that willingness to support, especially given, and in all the cases that I'm talking about right now, these girls were working right, these girls are earning a decent income so you can contribute and support financially. It's not to say that the the dad is going to become a stay-at-home dad, but you're not going to end up homeless. You're not going to end. You dad is going to become a stay-at-home dad, but you're not going to end up homeless. You're not going to live in a shoebox.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but what if the woman wants actually to have a family, start a family soon, and she doesn't want?

Speaker 2

to Within the first year of marriage.

Speaker 1

Some of them are in their 30s and they don't have a lot of time to waste.

Speaker 2

So maybe the guy just needs a year or two years to finish his certification, to finish his graduate program, to to take his licensing exam, or maybe he's just taking a year off work just to pursue a business idea. What's wrong with that? Nothing's wrong with that so where is the support?

Cultural Differences and Adaptations

Speaker 1

girls. I think this is not coming from a place of lack of support, but it's coming from a desire or a need for stability. Girls in general, they seek stability and they need that sense of security.

Speaker 2

So if a guy has a plan, okay, so, given entrepreneurship is a risk. But let's take a more traditional example is a risk. But let's take a more traditional example. Guy is in grad school, or maybe he. He just finished grad school and he is studying for his exam. He's not working, he's studying for his exams, he's still trying to. You know, he's got a ton of student debt. He has a plan laid out for financial stability, right, a plan forward, a career path. What about that situation? Why not support the guy through that?

Speaker 1

maybe he just needs another year. So I'm not excusing that, I'm just trying to understand it okay because to a girl she might think okay. I admire his aspiration, his ambition but, there's no guarantee he's gonna pass the exam or he's gonna land a job soon after, so there's always uncertainty. Though yes, even if he does requires a leap of faith it does it does.

Speaker 2

And for a girl to come in and say that I want everything to be safe and secure, right like I want the nest to be just perfectly made for me where there are no risks, is a bit unrealistic marriage requires a certain level of faith, like you said, but she's not asking for a mansion, she's I'm not asking for a mansion, but an unrealistic level of security, I think I don't think it's unrealistic I look, girls.

Speaker 1

People are different. I myself, for example, I wouldn't shy away from this kind of risk.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Like, if the guy was like, let's say, for example, if you were the kind of person who has that energy and drive and I want to grow and I want to whatever, but you were like in between jobs, then that would be enough for me. But people are different. Some people need that stability, need that sense of security that I'm not entering into a marriage that's just starting with a risk. It doesn't necessarily mean that. What?

Speaker 2

risk. I don't understand what risk there is if he has finished graduate school, so he has his degree. He just needs to take his licensing exam. He has a plan laid out for him, so I don't see the risk there.

Speaker 1

I don't see a risk, but maybe some girls do.

Speaker 2

What risk? I don't understand. I see the same level of risk if the guy is currently employed and he could get laid off tomorrow. I mean, his company could downsize and he could get laid off.

Speaker 1

You're starting from like a level down. You could say how many people do you know who have degrees but are unemployed? Many people, or are working, as I don't know, uber drivers, drivers which there is nothing wrong with that and they have degrees so that's what I'm saying. Having a degree doesn't necessarily mean that you are that you have job security not necessarily that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2

Having a degree doesn't necessarily mean job security so there's a risk either way. That's the point that I'm making, so why not take that leap of faith?

Speaker 1

there is a lesser risk if the guy's already working, or he's at least somehow, is established right.

Speaker 2

So I guess so that so they're trying to minimize risk okay and yeah, especially if they're planning on having children even year number two, but again, in many situations the girl is also working, so I still don't see the level of risk, Unless she has completely made up her mind 100% that the day she signs that Nikah contract she's going to be a stay-at-home mom, which I rarely ever see.

Speaker 1

Some women we see do want to have a traditional role yes, in time, though in time not like right off the bat yeah, but if you are entering a marriage with the expectation that you are going to work, then it, like it, might cause problems in the future. If you are envisioning a married life where you are taking a traditional role.

Speaker 2

It's going to create problems.

Speaker 1

Yes, you want to become a traditional wife. You want to have a traditional role, but you are starting your marriage with the expectation that you're going to work until he makes it. Yeah, so yeah. Do you see the contradiction?

Speaker 2

I don't, I don't, I honestly don't.

Speaker 1

Maybe I'm missing something um try it again okay, I'm a woman, I want to have a traditional life okay where you stay at home.

Speaker 2

this is take care of the home. Exactly this is my vision for my marriage.

Speaker 1

Okay, yeah, but I am marrying a guy who currently doesn't work and I'm going to be working until he can support a family.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

There's no guarantee he's going to get there and you don't know how long it's going to get. You don't know if this is gonna cause cause us to delay having children. You don't know what's gonna happen and I want to have a traditional life right.

Speaker 2

But in many cases guys who have gone to school, who have a plan laid out forward, they will be able to get there because they've already put in the work and they know exactly how many years it will take to get to a certain level of income, whether you're a CPA or a doctor, lawyer, whatever it might be. So that kind of mindset and way of thinking is not really grounded.

Speaker 1

You know, somebody mentioned it once, I think I saw it in a comment and it resonated with me. If we are talking about a couple who are in their early 20s, then sure they can afford to do that build themselves, build themselves together, start from scratch, all of all of that. Delay having children, but if we're talking about people who are already in their mid-30s, it's not exactly realistic. Too late until he makes it. And until when are we going to have children? When are we going to?

Speaker 2

How many cases do you see of guys finishing graduate school in their late 30s, mid to late 30s?

Speaker 1

No, some of them have been graduated like, have graduated a long before a long time before but they are still not established In many cases, generally speaking.

Speaker 2

generally speaking and we've been doing this work for a long time Generally speaking, a guy in his mid 30s, mid to late 30s- is earning a decent income and is pretty well settled into their career yeah, maybe yes, how did we end up here? I don't know, because you know it's a sensitive topic for me, so I don't know. I think that the recent situation was just on my mind and so, but anyways, the question we were asking each other was uh, advice to someone who's overthinking their list.

Speaker 1

Oh, and what would our story help them realize? Okay, so that was my advice.

Unexpected Compatibility Factors

Speaker 2

Perfection doesn't exist for me, my advice would be that you can plan all you want. You can envision your marriage and your spouse the way you want. Plan all you want. You can envision your marriage and your spouse the way you want, but Allah has a plan for you. You can think you're going to marry some Victoria's Secret supermodel or whatever it might be, but what you need to understand is that Allah has someone better in mind for you, and your job is to be flexible, is to be reliant on Him, is to make your intentions sincere and pure and to put in the work, because, at the end of the day, allah is going to show you the door, but you have to walk through it Right, and you don't know where those windows of opportunity will come from, how they might present themselves. But you have to be ready for that moment, and the way you can get ready is through ways that we've talked about in many, many episodes which is self-assessment, understanding your values, etc.

Speaker 2

Etc. Etc. You can go back to previous episodes and and listen to that, but if you're not doing the work and if you're not prepared for that moment when Allah presents you with someone, then you could be missing out, right, exactly. So, um, just realize that Allah has a plan for you. Maybe the plan is that you don't get married, right, and I hope that you know that doesn't happen to, and I hope that you know that doesn't happen to you, and I hope everybody is blessed with a spouse.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think. Just to reiterate what you just said do the self-work. Don't wait for somebody to come to start doing the self-work, Because they're not going to wait for you to be ready.

Speaker 2

We're not talking about financial readiness and all of that Right, because everybody thinks like getting ready for marriage means, oh, I have to have a job, I have to have a place, and yes, those things are important, but that's not everything there's something more important, there are more important things. You can have all those things, all those superficial things I don't want to call them superficial things, because they are important, but you can have all those things, but if you don't know yourself, if you don't understand your values, then you are setting yourself up for major problems.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, sorry I cut you off, you were saying something, just yeah, I think I already said it do the self-work, start working on yourself early, so when the right person comes, you'll be fully prepared, for sure yeah, all right.

Speaker 2

Inshallah, we hope you guys benefited from this episode and, as always, feel free to comment and if you want to come on the podcast and share a story, um, whatever it might be, maybe it's um through your courting phase or, uh, an experience you had on one of the apps. Whatever it might be, we'd love to hear your story. And how can people reach out to us, hiba?

Speaker 1

Yeah, just shoot us an email at halalmatchca and we would love to have you. I think other listeners would also feel inspired by your story.

Speaker 2

Inshallah Until next time. Assalamu alaikum, assalamu alaikum.