The Washington State Hiking Podcast

Winter hikes for Washingtonians in Southern California

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 48

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Jennie Flaming:

Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking podcast. I'm your host. Jennie Thwing Flaming,

Craig Romano:

and I'm your co host. Greg Romano, Craig

Jennie Flaming:

and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely, seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun and inclusive. Hi everyone. Jennie here, just a quick note before we dive into this episode. Craig and I recorded this episode before the fires that devastated the Los Angeles area earlier this month, and I wanted to share with you that, as far as Craig and I know, none of the trails we discuss in this episode have been impacted by these fires. However, many trails in the Los Angeles area have been impacted by fires, and this is a fire prone area, so keep that in mind when planning a trip any time of year to really anywhere in the West, but especially this area. And also we know that our neighbors to the south really need our support, whether that's through donations right now, or our dollars by visiting in the future. So just wanted to mention that, and I hope you enjoy the show.

Craig Romano:

Hey Craig. Hey Jennie, so this is a great people ask me all the time, where do you like to go hiking in the wintertime, in jokingly, I always say California.

Jennie Flaming:

And you know, to be fair, well, we are going to talk about Southern California winter hiking in this episode, because it's a great getaway from Seattle. We do have, in the last, you know, six weeks, many wonderful episodes about winter hikes in Washington. So you know, that is also being

Craig Romano:

covered absolutely but I'll tell you. And we have to preface, you know, it's funny. I've lived in the Northwest for 35 years, and when I moved out here, I just heard nothing but how people, you know, rip on Californians. And matter of fact, it's funny because growing up in the in New England, it was the same thing we used to say about New Yorkers. So I heard it all already. It's just California's here, okay, but I don't know I'm gonna make this confession now, this is gonna be really tough. Okay, I love California. Okay, so does

Jennie Flaming:

that we're gonna take back here. Did I just give

Craig Romano:

up my Northwest credentials?

Jennie Flaming:

Of course not. California is an amazing state, just like ours. Yeah, I love California, too.

Craig Romano:

The hiking is amazing down there. You know, there's so many things I'll have about it. It's, it's easy. And the thing is, I don't go down there in the summertime, because I love it up here in the summertime, yeah? But, you know, the gray and the rain and anything to you know, I grew up in New England, and I love the cold, the cold, you know, I can go back to New England. I go back there during Christmas, and it's cold, but it's sunny. What drives me, what depresses me, is the gray, the constant gray. And there's nothing like getting down to Orange County or San Diego or Riverside. But I'm like, oh my god, sunshine. It's Always Sunny down here. I love it.

Jennie Flaming:

You know, that's really funny, because my my brother lived in Tijuana for a while, and during that time, I spent quite a bit of time in San Diego. And one time I was there, and it was like, right after Christmas, it was like the last week of December, I think we left Seattle on december 26 and there was end of the world rain every day that we were there. And it was so funny because, like, people there were definitely freaking out. It's okay, guys, we got

Craig Romano:

so we have to put the warning here. So it does rain there, it does. And traditionally, it's when, you know, with those La Ninas and the classic I did the LA Marathon two two marches ago. I was so psyched to go down there. I didn't have to worry about the heat. I'm in the beer garden after it's raining on me. I could have done that in Seattle. So it does rain down there, yeah. But again, your chances are really, really good that you're gonna have decent weather. It's gonna it's gonna be February. You could sit outside and have a drink and a burger.

Jennie Flaming:

And one of the reasons that we're talking about Southern California specifically is because, along with, I would say, also Arizona and Las Vegas, this is one of the closest, sunny and warm ish places to Seattle. You know, we're not talking about Hawaii in this episode, or Mexico or the Caribbean, even though those are great places to go. One of the reasons we're talking about this is it's not hot and it's nice, but not hot and it's pretty close. To Seattle, and pretty affordable to get to for traveling on an airplane or even a road trip.

Craig Romano:

Yeah, my last flight down there in January, going to Ontario in outside of Riverside. $150 round trip. Yeah. So, you know, last air has so many flights, you know, down it's really easy to get there. And and then same thing, if you're staying away from the real popular, you know, tourism areas, it's, it's actually pretty affordable too. So you can, and then hiking. Just take, you know, take your national park pass, you know, if you're doing those. Or, you know, a lot of the state parks are just nominal fees. It's not going to cost a lot of money. They're really affordable

Jennie Flaming:

getaways. Yeah. I mean, it's still money, right? But, but

Craig Romano:

we're spending that money here too, just drinking more because we're depressed.

Jennie Flaming:

All right, cool, by the way. Everybody listening, if you you know this podcast is awesome and free, and we are thrilled to bring it to you that way. But if you want to support us, in addition to our tip jar, we also have a link in the show notes. So if you are going to go on to say Expedia, to book a hotel or a flight or rental car in any of these places, if you book that through our link, that's in the show notes, it's in all of the show notes, actually will get a small commission, and it doesn't cost you anything except for what you were spending anyway.

Craig Romano:

And Jennie, I think little plug, because you'll be sending us back down there on our next trip. We really appreciate that. It depends on how

Jennie Flaming:

many people actually want to take your hiking advice. Okay, so, Craig, this is a topic that I don't know a lot about, because on the times I've been to California, I have not done a lot of hiking there. So we're gonna really rely on your your experience with a bajillion hikes down there over the last 35 years.

Craig Romano:

And the thing is, there are so many places. So first, it's interesting. For many, many years, I had zero interest in Southern California. I had been there, but I thought, you know, it's so crowded, so many people. And then I just started spending a lot more time there. My wife had some family down there visiting, and I couldn't believe how much I started liking the area. So here's the thing that's amazing, despite the fact, when you take LA County, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino orange, those down there, so it's half the population. Got 20 million people. Okay, you're gonna be and I've been on trails and in the middle there and all by myself alone. The thing is, it's amazing California's hike, you know, you know. So don't think like because, you know, they definitely, they're definitely amazing trails, amazing parks. But same thing that's going on here, it's like most people are going to the same places all the time. You know, there's a lot, even in Joshua Tree National Park, which is a couple hour drive from LA it's one of our most popular national parks. Yeah, people are going to be going to all the same spots, but there's also spots you can get out there that there's only gonna be a handful of people so or or just out, you know, places that are bordering these, these popular national parks. So don't think that, because there's so many people there, the trails are gonna be absolutely crowded and everything like that. I mean, that's, you know, go to Mount Si, go to Franklin falls. I can find spots outside of LA that's not gonna be that crowded. Yeah. So

Jennie Flaming:

let's, you know, I can imagine we might do a podcast episode on this topic in future years as well. But for right now, January 2025, if you were gonna go, let's say January, February or March, down to Southern California for hiking, for the best sort of destination for hiking and affordability. What airport would you fly to? And then after that, we'll talk about some of your favorite hikes there. Yeah,

Craig Romano:

so I go to Ontario. Most in Ontario is great. First of all, it's not lax. I mean, LAX is, but it's LA area. It is. It's about 50 miles from Los Angeles. So you're near, you're big, you're near Rancho, Cucamonga, San Bernardino, Riverside. It's so it's in the the Inland Empire there. I have also flown to, to John Wayne, which is Orange Counties. So if you want something close, that's a really easier Disneyland airport. Yeah, a lot of people, but Disney people use, people use Ontario for Disney also, yeah, yeah. And then I've also flown into Burbank too. So same thing, burbeck is great, just if you're trying to get into north of LA in that area. So,

Jennie Flaming:

so LA area, but not lax, because then you're dealing with sort of urban things that are not what you're there for, unless that is what you're there. That's great. And

Craig Romano:

the thing is, would you look at it all if you're going you might get a better manifesto. All those airports are all non stop flights from SeaTac, yeah, you know, you know, there might be more going to LAX. And the thing is, you want to look at other things too, because in LAX, you're going to be right there in the city. If you're planning on driving farther out, it's going to be more difficult to get out. The other thing, if you're looking at rental cars, can. Pair of the prices. So you want to look at all these same thing, hotels. But the other thing too, and I mentioned, I go to Ontario a lot. I find it very easy. It's a very mellow airports and a great location that I can get out really quickly outside. And also to Palm Springs. Palm Springs is only a little over an hour, an hour and a half drive there, because sometimes those flights to Palm Springs might be more expensive, not as many. So I use Ontario as a great, a great way to get to Palm Springs and to San Diego. I've used it to get to San Diego too. It's only an hour south to get to San Diego County. Yeah, it's pretty easy. So that is my number one airport that I use.

Jennie Flaming:

And I was just looking up while you were talking Craig. So also, if you're further north, so those airports all have direct flights from SeaTac, there's also a direct flight to Orange County, LAX and Palm Springs and San Diego from Everett, yes, from pain field on Alaska Airlines. So that's another option for those of you who are further north.

Craig Romano:

And if you're in Portland, they have flights Ontario as well. Yeah, yep, cool.

Jennie Flaming:

And Spokane. I didn't look that one up, but Spokane has some dry flights to that area too. Okay, so now that I'm here in Orange County, Ontario, Burbank Riverside area, tell us about a few of your favorite hikes there, Craig and what makes them great for this time of year? Yeah. So

Craig Romano:

you have to remember too, even though it's Southern California's weather, the mountains are still getting snow, yeah. So you're not going to be going up into the San Gabriels, even the Santa Anas I see, will have snow. So there's gonna be snow in the high country. The desert is absolutely perfect for that time of year. And I've been to Joshua Tree in February and March, marches is going to be a little bit warmer, Yeah, but you're getting the flowers, yeah?

Jennie Flaming:

And that's when the crowds get really intense. So tell us. But

Craig Romano:

the other thing I should tell you, too, if you've ever if you've never been, if you've never been. So the great thing about Joshua Tree is that you can stay in Palm Springs, so you don't have to camp. Because camping might be, it might be difficult. You might not want to bring the gear. It might be difficult just because might be crowd at the time. So you can actually stay in Palm Springs, or any of those areas in the huccella Valley. There's so many different places you can stay there. Yeah, and you're going to be 4000 feet lower than Joshua Tree, which means it's 80 degrees in Palm Springs. It's not going to be 80 degrees in Joshua Tree. Yeah. It might only be in the 50s up there. Yeah. So the weather is very, very nice during that time. So the same thing, most people are going to go to the most popular areas in the park, but just venture out to some of the the places on on the periphery, you know, like the Morongo Canyon area, when you first come in there, that's not getting a lot of crowds. And the irony is that's actually closer to Palm Springs, but everyone's heading into the into the main areas, so so definitely check that. And if you want to really see something, an interesting area that's not in the National Park, there's a place called whitewater Canyon preserve, and it's actually a national monument, and President Obama declared it in 2009 it's part of the sands to snow National Monument. Sands being the desert, yes, the snow being sang or Gonio, which is the highest peak in Southern California. It's 11 and a half 1000 feet. You're in this desert with Joshua trees. You're looking up at snow cap peak. It's just, it's, it's an amazing, you know, landscape, yeah, and, and the PCT actually goes through there in that area. And so that connects Joshua Tree. And so the national forest that is an amazing place to go hiking in there. And there's, there's an interpretive center. I don't find that plate, that area very crowded, something Morongo Canyon outside of Joshua Tree. This, there's the Bucha palms, which is another it's a conservancy that runs it. There'll be a lot of people right when you get there to at the Visitor Center and the Oasis, they said, these are California Palms. These are the native palm trees the oasis. But you can hike several miles to get into these natural where, again, you're going to be only with a handful of people. Cool. So, so these are really cool. You know, when you're in Orange County in California, the palm trees that are growing along the roads, those are all from somewhere else. Those aren't native palms. The California native palms are crazy or fan they have all these fan leaves that come out. They're crazy, looking cool. And they grow in these oasis that are in, that are in, in the desert. And they're amazing. The hike to some of those this also, we're gonna see a lot of the wildlife desert, Big Horn, you know, the chuck Wallace, the lizards, things like that, yeah, some really cool stuff. And the lizards are really cool. Totally, the chuck walls are really cool. So these are all there's another area outside of, outside of the Coachella Valley Mecca, which is the mecca Canyon. It's a BLM area. There's, there's ladders you can get into these areas, these little canyon, Canyon hiking. There are so many places they're same thing in the Santa Rosa mountains. They're just south of Palm Springs. There are so many trails in that area. So again, you can use, use Palm Springs, Indio, Palm Desert, any of those areas as your base. Yeah. And go in a place to check out the Salton Sea. The Salton Sea is fascinating, you know, I

Jennie Flaming:

have been there, but it was in the summer, so the hiking was out of the

Craig Romano:

classroom. So, so you want to go to the Sonny Bono, you know, you'll be humming 60 tunes, you know, I got you, babe and all that the Sonny Bono National Wildlife Refuge. You know it Sonny. He was a congressman from California in that area, and he was also the mayor of Palm Springs for a while. He actually was pretty big on trying to protect the Salton Sea because there's a lot of threats the bird. The birding is unbelievable in there the so we spent some time at that National Wildlife Refuge. Cool. There's great, easy, family friendly trails to do. The burning is amazing in there. So that's a place you want to check out as well. Yeah, for sure.

Jennie Flaming:

Love it. Have you, Craig, have you been to Death Valley National Park?

Craig Romano:

You know, I've only biked through the periphery of it. I have not hiked. It's it's on my it's on my list. We keep saying we got to get in there. So I me too a whole

Jennie Flaming:

I've also, I have been to Death Valley, but it was during the summer. Well, I mean, it was part of a bigger road trip, and it was like, you know, you just try to get through there in the middle of the night and survive, but not die. Um, but someday we'll do an

Craig Romano:

episode about that. And Death Valley is huge. It's one of the biggest national parks, and it gets a fraction of the people that Joshua Tree. But another place between them, again, is the Mojave national, National Preserve, I believe it. Yeah, and that's another place. There's so many places off the beaten track. Yep, there's some of the biggest dune complexes in the country. Yeah, check out this near Barstow, between Barstow and 29 palms, there's, there's lots of, yes, lots of places in those areas. Too

Jennie Flaming:

Cool. Those are great suggestions. Okay, are there other places in that area? So I'm getting kind of a theme of, you know, desert, DESERT hiking is pretty great. High Country hiking is kind of off the table because of snow, unless you want a snow adventure. And are there any other kind of general types of hikes? There are areas that you'd recommend? Yeah.

Craig Romano:

I mean, just even right within the whole urban the urban hike area. So one of my I'll tell you one, a couple of two, fascinating places more in the valley, where all the people are, that's just going to blow you away. If you want to see what Southern California looked like before statehood, you know, all the settlement and everything, I've got two places to send you, because what's amazing is the biological diversity in Southern California is incredible. Yet, with 20 million people, I mean, you know, it's so much has been fragmented hurt, but Chino Hills State Park. So Chino Hills, it's about 30,000 acres State Park. It is right where LA County, San Bernardino, Riverside County, all meet. You are surrounded by all the cities you can hike there. There are miles and miles of hiking trails in this area, old growth, California sycamores, old growth live oaks in the amazing I was just down there last year. In March, I was staying in Brea, right next to Anaheim. So everyone's going to Disneyland. We're going hiking and all day hiking in this area on a absolutely Blue, Blue Bird Day, we ran into 12 people, wow, surrounded by 20 million. Yeah. And how far were you from Disneyland? You 15 air miles. You know, you know, you could see when you get to the top of the summit San Juan Hill, the highest point in the in the Chino Hills. You can see Anaheim. You can see the ocean, yeah, you can see all the cities around you. But you can also, when you're in certain positions where you can't see the cities, right? All you see across are the hills, these golden, golden grassy hills, and then the San Gabriel Mountains, 10,000 feet across. You know, you see San Juan Santo, San Gorgonia, to the east, and you see the Santa Anas to the south, and and you don't see, it's amazing. Of course, there's airplanes, you know, landing everything, but you can, you can see what this area must have looked like, yeah, you know, 200 years ago, yeah, you know, during the haciendas and all that. Yeah, it's just, it's an amazing experience, Chino Hills. And love it, places that you can access that from. So it's been one of the big conservation areas that they I think, I think the State Park was only developed in the 80s, because, again, just seeing all this development coming. The other place I love is just outside of Temecula and in Marietta. This is in Riverside County, but right on the San Diego County border, it's called Santa Rosa ecological Preserve. Same text, about 10,000 acres, 80 miles of trails, old and old growth. You know this the dough growth trees are incredible. In there, these beautiful, cool live oaks. And there's two, two of the oldest buildings in the area, or in their two Adobes. And they're fascinating because they're only. A few years apart, but one was built when that was part of Mexico, and the other one when it was California. So the history in that area, but it's the same thing. Most of the time, you're on this plateau, you're above Temecula, which Temecula has got over 100,000 people. Myriad has got over 100,000 people. You don't see any of that. All you see in the mountains. You see what what it used to look like, if from one high Summit, when the high Summit, you could just van a clear day, you could see the San Diego skyline, 30 miles. Really cool, but it is an incredible place. There's coyotes all over the place. I remember taking my son hiking there when he was about three years old, and he just was enamored with all the scat that was all over the place. Never seen so much coyote scatter. You know, the dog poop trail for him. Then these are the places I love. There's so many of them down there, and they're not getting the a lot of the locals aren't even going to these places, yeah. So, so I love these. And it's same thing if you're in the San Diego area, one that I couldn't believe we'd spent almost all day at this area where nobody was on the beach. And I'll tell you why you're talking about Tijuana, after the Tijuana National Estuary Preserve. So this is the Southern, one of the southern most beaches in California. You got, you've got the border beach, and then the Tijuana estuary reserve, and it's the same. And the thing is, because the the same of the bird life is incredible in there, but the Tijuana River is polluted. It's far because it's coming in from Mexico. It flows into California. So a lot is that

Jennie Flaming:

the river that is the border at some isn't there snowboard. It just, yeah, it's all

Craig Romano:

in the US. It just, it starts in Mexico and kind of it flows north, okay? It flows Northwest, yep, yep. So it empties out right in San Diego County. Yeah, you have mission. So Mission Bay is to the north, which is a pretty popular place, and I can picture, so the river. So a lot of people even warn you, you know, you don't want to go in the water or anything there. Yeah, the birds don't pay attention that they have a sets and everything. Are all over the place. But nobody's walking that beach. Matter of fact, it was so funny when we were down here the last time we were walking, we got interviewed by a TV crew because we're out there hiking, because there's nobody here. We're doing Yeah? You can and you can hike. You keep hiking on this and you can see the Mexican border. You can actually see the border wall goes into the ocean, yeah? And you can see on the other side the buildings in it. So you're right on and on the Tijuana, Mexico side, it's all urbanized. You've got, you could see, you know, huge buildings. And then you're in this preserve, yeah, California.

Jennie Flaming:

So, no, that's so interesting, because I've been to that spot on the Mexico side, and, um, it is a really beautiful beach, but you're right there are tall buildings kind of right next to you. And I've always found that spot really kind of complicated, because it's so beautiful. And at the same time, like, I just, you know, the times that, like I said, I've been there, have been on the Mexico side, and, you know, the the wall, it is a wall, yep, um, you know, it kind of lands differently when you're on the southern side of it. But I just, yeah, that's, I don't think I knew that you could get up close to that on the US you could actually

Craig Romano:

walk this a state park border this on the California you can hike right along the wall and shake hands with people on the side,

Jennie Flaming:

it's crazy. Yeah, it's a little on the southern side, it's intimidating to get close to it. But, yeah, I mean, I've been pretty close to it, and I'm an American, of course, but as I think everyone knows, but you know, I've been there with people who are mostly with people who are not Americans, or a group of Americans and Mexicans and, yeah. So that's cool to know that there's a park there on the California side. I didn't even know that it's

Craig Romano:

a national, National Estuary preserve like Padilla Bay, yeah. And so it means very, very ecologically important. And yet people aren't going there again. They're going to Mission Bay. Yeah. The other place, of course, probably the most popular place in San Diego for be instant amazing, is Torrey Pines State Park and La Jolla. So La Jolla is the exact opposite, very, very upscale. It's really nice in it, yeah. But Torrey Pines, the Dory pine tree. It only grows in one place, right here in Southern California, cool and so they preserved in this area too. It's all headlands and cliffs. It's a beautiful state park. You can hike The Headlands. There's all kinds of rare plants and birds. And then you can hike the beach in here, and you'll be hiking along these cliffs. You're not going to see any urban development. Is actually a sanctioned clothing optional beach here too, because that's black speech. So if you're, if you know, depending on how you how you feel, on that you can keep hiking or not. So Torrey Pines is a great place. If you've never been there. It's one of the most beautiful places in San Diego County. North of there, you start getting to more develop. Developed Beach, though, the beaches are nice, though, but you're not going to have a stretch where above you is no development, until you get to San Onofre, which is near Pendleton, so that's been preserved because of the Marine Base. Yeah, so there's good But same thing there, though, you've got a highway that's very close. You're gonna hear the highway notes, but you're gonna have some amazing beach walking there. Yeah, and then going to San Clemente to the north, has some beautiful beaches, cool to hike as well. I mean, again, there's so many places. I know

Jennie Flaming:

there's so many so well, maybe we'll have to make this an annual tradition.

Craig Romano:

I'm always going down there, Southern California, hiking, hiking, new places to go. I mean, I try to do different places every time I go down there, yeah,

Jennie Flaming:

love it all right. Well, thanks so much for sharing all those wonderful places with us. Craig, you.

People on this episode

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host