The Washington State Hiking Podcast

Groundhog Day hikes

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 49

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Jennie Flaming:

Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking podcast. I'm your host. Jennie Thwing Flaming,

Craig Romano:

and I'm your co host. Craig Romano, Craig

Jennie Flaming:

and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely, seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun and inclusive. Okay, Craig, happy, belated Groundhogs Day.

Craig Romano:

It's one of my favorite holiday. How did you spend your Groundhog Day? Um,

Jennie Flaming:

it wasn't anything too exciting to tell you the truth, it was just, you know, kind of in office day. Well,

Craig Romano:

you know in most about you. Well, I'll tell you, most groundhogs in this part of the of the country were taking a pretty chill on on Groundhog Day as well, because they're, they're, they're buried in their they're, they're den somewhere under a lot of snow, right? So Groundhog's

Jennie Flaming:

Day is one of those holidays that only makes sense if you live in certain places, and this isn't really one of them.

Craig Romano:

And what I find it's interesting, it's become part of our culture and everything, but a lot of people, really, first of all, in case you don't know, and we're not gonna assume it, marmots are groundhogs. Groundhogs are marmots. See, a lot of you. So that's so the Woodchuck is, which is what groundhog is called. Is basically, he's the Eastern Marmot. Okay, okay, he's a marmot.

Jennie Flaming:

Is a marmot a type of Groundhog, or is a groundhog just

Craig Romano:

a term that was given to them here, okay, kind of like how we call I'm trying to think, I can't. Why am I not thinking? It's, it's just a colloquial name. Okay, okay. So, so woodchucks are marmots. They belong to the family Marmot okay. So I'm gonna tell you all kinds of cool things you didn't know about marmots. Tell us about marmots. But first, let's just talk. Do you have any idea what how Groundhog Day came to be? Matter of fact, this is the 130/9 anniversary.

Jennie Flaming:

You don't know anything about nothing at all. Well.

Craig Romano:

Well, it was the Germans, German immigrants, that started celebrating in Pennsylvania. Is where it started. Okay on that. So the tradition of Groundhog Day started with Pennsylvania Germans. And the custom goes back predicting weather, goes back to ancient Europe, where a badger was actually used for the prediction. Okay, see, there's no badgers. I believe there's no badgers in Pennsylvania. I think you have to start getting out more into Wisconsin, in that area. Okay, so I guess they just decided, yeah, there's very few badgers in Pennsylvania, but hitchhikes are all over the place. Okay? So that's how they just for some crazy, I'm sure, you know, probably some ancient CELT. No, they're not Celtic. I don't know where they came up predicting how the Badger predicted weather, right?

Jennie Flaming:

I mean, everything about it is goofy, including the fact that, like, here in Washington, you know, we have two more weeks of winter, like, that's just how it is, maybe three, right? Anyway, a lot more than that. March is not winter here, but in the high country, sure, yeah. But I mean, like in Seattle, Tacoma, Portland, Bellingham, March is spring, not winter, which, I mean in the mountains, that's

Craig Romano:

winter. What's interesting too, because I grew up back east, northeast, and winter did last very long back there when I was growing up. But now, with climate change, everything I don't have we made, you know, some have we taken that into consider the moment, taking that into consideration when you're saying, you know, right, spring is actually closer now, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you five things you didn't know about marmots, besides not knowing about because, first of all, I know our listener who does not love Marmot so you gotta everyone does. Of course, everybody look. And I want to find that one person who doesn't love marmots, and what is their issue with marmots, right? I mean, they are adorable, because I'll tell you even one of the most controversial governors in our in not in our state, but in America's history. It was a big Marmot fan, and I'm gonna talk about her in a minute. Okay, so five things you don't know about marmots. Okay? Lay it on me. So I told you. Groundhogs are marmots, the rodents belonging to the genus marmota. There are 15 species of marmots in the world, okay. And they grow

Jennie Flaming:

like the Olympic Marmot, that is only on the Olympic Peninsula and the Vancouver that's one, that's one thing I that's the only thing I really knew about what I just told you. So the indigenous, because I was a guide, I know that. And

Craig Romano:

so they're fit, and they live in all different climates, the steppe grasslands, you know, Eastern forests, the mountains very soon that we kind of equate them here with alpine meadows, yeah. But even Eastern Washington, I've seen them right down along Columbia River in the basalt Yeah. Because we have several species of Marmot here in Washington. You have the hoary Marmot, the yellow bellied and the Olympic Marmot, cool, right? And. Then we also across in Canada is the Vancouver Island Marmot that only lives. So

Jennie Flaming:

it's like the Olympic Marmot, except the Vancouver Island version.

Craig Romano:

Okay, so there are, but there's goes more. I only give you four species of marmots, okay? Or dig up if I can't. There are six species of marmots in North America. So the Woodchuck is the most widely distributed. He's all over the place. And you know, what's also interesting? I find this interesting about about the woodchuck, because I grew up back East. You know, we Easterners were known as being kind of more talkative and boisterous. And you know, we know the marmots out here are called whistlers. That's why their name, because they're boisterous. But the Woodchuck is, is silent. He doesn't, he doesn't whistle, really. He's quiet, He's weird. He's a chill Marmot, you know? Okay, they don't whistle, you know? So, that's it, so, so I talked about that, and then we did the yellow bellied the Hori Marmot, the Olympic which is only endemic to Olympic Mountains, the Vancouver Island Marmot, which is only found on BC, Vancouver Island. What is the other Marmot? Jennie, you should know this

Jennie Flaming:

one. You said all the ones that I know the Alaska Marmot. That's a separate Marmot. See, I didn't know that in the

Craig Romano:

Brooks Range. Oh,

Jennie Flaming:

okay, so Jay, my husband would have known that. So that knows everything. Those

Craig Romano:

are our six marmots here in North America. Okay, so now think about that Alaska. So

Jennie Flaming:

there's three that we have in Washington. Three in Washington, okay, the hoary, the yellow bellied and the Olympic So which one is it that's in Mount Rainier National Park, because it's a hoary Marmot, right? Yeah. And then as the yellow bellied Marmot, the one in the damn Eastern Washington. You

Craig Romano:

see them in eastern Washington? Yep, yep, yeah. So, um, so signal, we talked about Alaska. You know, Alaskans don't celebrate Groundhog Day.

Jennie Flaming:

They don't. That's true. I lived there for many years. They celebrate, definitely, winter. Well

Craig Romano:

still, yeah, February 2. Do you know what they celebrate? Nothing. Because

Jennie Flaming:

usually it's winter.

Craig Romano:

It's Marmot day. It was a step. It was a step, totally 1009 Do you know who established

Jennie Flaming:

it? Not President Obama, Governor, Governor Sarah Palin. Governor Sarah Palin, of course, and she did this to celebrate very short time as Alaska's governor,

Craig Romano:

but she got that Marmot Day holiday in there. It was meant to celebrate Alaska's marmots and Alaskan culture. Okay, okay, so the same year that that Alaska declared its Marmot independence, Washington declared the Olympic Marmot as its official state endemic mammal. Cool. All right. So look at that. We wanted it. We weren't gonna let Alaska have all the all the Marmot fun here? No way. Man, yeah. So, and then the Vancouver Island Marmot, which is actually making a good recovery. There was very few of them for a while. They're one of the most endangered mammals. And if you remember that beautiful, endangered, endangered species stamps that came out last year, Ashley, going for the United States, if you're paying attention, the Vancouver Island Marmot was on that anything. Wait a minute, he's Canadian. Why is he on there? We, like Vancouver Island, truly figure. But I think we weren't trying to do some like, trying to make you our 51st state, like, like someone else we know in this country, we it was very, very interesting that that they did, that they include it because he's a success story that they've actually brought back. They wanted to show him because he's so darn cute

Jennie Flaming:

too. Yeah. So all marmots are really cute. So

Craig Romano:

Canada. So here's the other thing I want you to know about. So they Winter Olympics in 2010 up in Vancouver, the official the official mascot, was a marmot, and he was called muck muck. No, do you know what muck muck muck stands for? This is what I love. Muck. Muck is from the Chinook jargon, okay? And it means to eat, okay, okay, to eat. And basically, marmots do. That's all they did. And did you know last that there is a muck muck mountain in Washington? It did

Jennie Flaming:

not it's over. It's over in the Tiffany Highlands. Okay, so, so I tell everybody where that is, because I know where that is.

Unknown:

It's near conconully. Do you still need to tell you

Jennie Flaming:

where? Yeah, yeah, like North Central Washington, yeah,

Craig Romano:

it's where they were. The North Cascades are. They're kind of their Eastern, extreme

Jennie Flaming:

east of Winthrop, yes, northeast, northeast, northeast of Wenatchee.

Craig Romano:

Okay, okay, I didn't know that. So to go visit it. I mean, I've given you five. There's so many great things. So I want you know I really think we should do some kind of celebration here. I mean, I know my wife and I, we watched the movie Groundhog Day, which is just, just, I absolutely love that movie. It's a fantastic movie. So we have our tradition, you know, yeah, okay, and we do it over and over and over again. Of course you

Jennie Flaming:

do, because otherwise it wouldn't be Groundhog Day. Ah. My sister in law's birthday is on Groundhog's Day. So that's usually what makes me that's usually what I'm thinking about that day, more than groundhogs. Okay, but I would love to know, Craig, what are some of your favorite Marmot hikes in Washington? I can tell you mine too, including maybe my all time favorite Marmot viewing spot that you don't even have to hike to get wonder which that is, so you'll have to wait until it's my turn.

Craig Romano:

Well, if you, if you're interested in seeing one of those endemic, rare Olympic moments, yes, Hurricane Hill, yes, you go in. The thing is, now you go, you go up the paved trail. Hurricane Hill. There's a trail that drops down to the Elwha Valley. Yep, you can hike the first half mile or so on that where it's just drew the meadows on top mount. Yeah, that's one of the best spots, yep, to see the Olympic Marmot. Yep. So, so that's a good one in the North Cascades, one of the best places to see marmots. And they are the most gregarious lot there. I don't know why these guys are so gregarious on So, Holly arm, yeah. So Holly arm is Marmot heaven. Yeah. So lots of arms. I mean, there's so many places that you can see marmots, whistlers as you will just love them. Yeah, where?

Jennie Flaming:

Okay, so you said you the a good place to see yellow bellied marmots was like in the Columbia Valley in eastern Washington. What are some I don't think I've ever seen I've done a lot of hikes over there. I don't think I've seen one. It's curious. Where you feel like are the best spots? They're probably places I haven't met.

Craig Romano:

No, it's amazing even, even places like steamboat rock, the coolies in there, the marmots are in there. They're they're usually in the basalt, remember, too. And we tend to think of them as being more in the Alpine, but there are marmots that live on the Asian steppe. They like that grasslands and dry area, yep, you know. And so I guess they're kind of, you know, taking the place of Badgers, who also kind of like that similar type of environment too,

Jennie Flaming:

over there, like steamboat rock, for example. Like, what's the best season to see them? Or it doesn't really matter. I

Craig Romano:

think springs a good time whenever they're getting more active. Yeah, thinking too. I was just thinking because I had one of the craziest Marmot experiences, too. Again, we tend to think of them as being in the meadows. But several years ago, I was on trail run on the Pacific Crest Trail, Pacific Crest Trail on bridge Creek in the forest, all forested, and all sudden, I spoke to monarch, and he's running on a trail, big, big old, wobbly guy. Any I watched him climb a tree. We went up and climbed a tree. Now we don't see I've got pictures of this. You don't believe me. I'll put it on my

Jennie Flaming:

site just I do believe you like I would have been shocked. It was that Craziest thing.

Craig Romano:

I've never seen this before, and same thing I grew up with the woodchucks who grew up in the forest back there, but I never see them in trees. They're usually, you know, just on the field edges and everything, right? So Marvin can climb trees. Yeah,

Jennie Flaming:

yeah. Well, you know, um, going back to hurricane Hill for a minute. I just want to make a big plug for that hike in general. I feel like sometimes people overlook it because they're like, you know, like when I did tours over there, you know, sometimes I found, I found that that was a really good tour hike because it's not super long and has a big payoff, which is great if you're a tour guide, but it is, you know, from the end of the parking area up to hurricane Hill, it's only three miles round trip, and it climbs, but it's not extremely steep. There's there might be as much as 1000 feet of elevation gain, but it's not more than that, and the payoff for the views is amazing. But even before you get there, you know, there's wild flower fields. I've seen bears there quite a few times, super close to the trail, which is which is better. But like, you know, looking across a meadow, and that is a great place for mermaids. The place I was thinking of where you don't even have to drive to see them, is also at hurricane ridge. So have you been up there since the day lodge fire? I have not okay. So I, I went up there in late May 2024, and actually, we have, you weren't on this one, but we have an episode about that experience, because I also took the bus there. But anyway, I don't remember. I remember seeing lots of marmots on trails up there before the fire. But when the lodge was there, I don't remember seeing them, like, all over the place, like in the parking area.

Craig Romano:

We had built the original lodge over one of their ancients, maybe,

Jennie Flaming:

right? Maybe, I don't know. But anyway, it was like there were just marmots, like, everywhere, you know, like, right there. But it's interesting because our friend Erin, who I was there with, who lives in Port, Angeles, she and I noticed that a lot of people were missing them, right? Like, you know, we pointed them out to people because, you know, we both spent a lot of time doing, like, travel writing and being. Slides. And you know how you can't help yourself, you're like, stranger, there's a bar MIT right there. So that was kind of interesting. The like, they're hard to see. Like, you definitely have to be looking for them. If they're not moving, they're really camouflaged. And

Craig Romano:

I find the Olympic marmots are a little bit more mellow. They're not whistling as much. You know, they don't seem to be that's just my experience with them. Of course, you know the whole wisdom, when you're you're hiking, particularly by yourself, in an area that does not have a lot of people, you get into one of those basins, and boy, the first century, it's a century Marmot. It's gonna let out this high pierced. It's amazing, but also it's also interesting. You ever watch some of them too? Because, looking, you know, a lot of their their predators are hawks and eagles above planes, over, over flying, sometimes the shadow across the meadows. They may take that as a hawk or an eagle. Yeah, we're talking about, you know, whistlers are one of the, one of the great names we call, call marmots, the other name I love. It's not in vogue now. But if you go back into, you know, 100 years ago, if you're at a logging camp, or you see it, and there's, there's a place name on one of in the North Cascades. It's in my it's in my central Washington day hiking, Central Washington book in the Antioch mountains, whistling pig. Whistling pig Meadows. Okay, so whistling pig was a name that a lot of the loggers and people worked in the woods actually, just like they were calling them woodchucks. You know, any wrestling pig, another colloquial, colloquial name for our little marmotive friends. Yeah, you

Jennie Flaming:

know one other, one other Marmot hike that I just want to give a plug for is the skyline loop in Mount Rainier National Park. And I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, this is like, you know, Craig, but if you haven't been on this train, 100 classics, yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's stunning. It's one of the most incredible hikes in Washington. I mean, it is definitely busy, right? I mean, there's a, there are a lot of people that hike this trail, but it's, it's one of those ones that I'm like, this hike is amazing. It's worth a vacation day. It's worth the hassle of getting a timed entry permit to the paradise corridor. Like it's, it's really, really worth it. And there's a reason it's so popular. And similar to what we said about hurricane Hill, amazing wild flowers. I think one thing to watch out for with the skyline loop is that, really, any time in July, there's still a lot of snow, you know, and even you know, there's a small snow field that you might have to cross any time of year depending on the year. But, you know, I'd say it's a good August, September hike, but there are tons of marmots up there, and I've seen them lots of places in Mount Rainier National Park, but that's one where I feel like they're pretty consistently, quite a few of

Craig Romano:

them. And we have to tell, and I know there's a lot of overzealous hikers out there trying to protect the meadows, and we thank you, but lay off the marmots. They're gonna be all over the

Jennie Flaming:

meadows. It's okay for them to be trampling. Nobody eat flowers. They

Craig Romano:

eat them. They're gonna be munching on those loops. Just remind me one of the craziest Marmot experience I ever had, and this could be very, very traumatizing for children.

Jennie Flaming:

So so if you have young ones, you may want maybe listen to this later.

Craig Romano:

So I was in Waterton Lakes National Park in Alberta early summer years ago, and one of the cool things you get to do, you rent a canoe, go out, go out on the lake, and just sit in the middle Lake, and the grizzly bears come out. They start coming out of their den. It's perfectly safe, because, you know, you're out in the lake, perfectly safe. You're in the middle of the lake.

Jennie Flaming:

It's fine, have you? Have you not seen bears swimming? They do swim. But

Craig Romano:

I'll tell you why. They're not going to be interested in Italian food. I'll tell this right now, okay, because what they're doing, they are, they have these huge claws. They're they are tearing up these avalanche shoots. They're tearing they can sense Marmot, Marmot dads, they're tearing the marmots out of the den. Okay, so it's kind of nature is so hard, they're not interested in me. I'm too much work to sit out there and like, okay, they got a nice fresh, fresh Marmite coming out that den. They they're amazing because, you know, way nature works. A lot of these rodents. There's bazillions of them because they got to feed so many other so. Golden Eagles like them. Bald eagles like them. Grizzly bears are fond of Marmot also, yeah. But most, most of the bear diets actually fruits and get more vegetarian, but every now and then they a good Marmot steak. Sounds good,

Jennie Flaming:

yeah. Okay, cool. All right. Well, um, thanks for enlightening us about marmots. And that was fun. My favorite. I mean, most of those, all of those places we mentioned for Marmot, it's going to be a few months before we can go see them, but this is a good time to make a plan, right?

Craig Romano:

And defending on, I don't know, the crazy weather back east, it might be a maybe a while even in Pennsylvania, to see a marmot. So, right? So for sure, that's hold off on the Marmot hiking for a little while. All right.

Jennie Flaming:

Sounds good. You.

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host