The Washington State Hiking Podcast

Wildlife encounters while hiking

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 52

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Jennie Flaming:

Jennie, welcome to the Washington State hiking podcast. I'm your host. Jennie Thwing Flaming,

Unknown:

and I'm your co host. Craig Romano, Craig

Jennie Flaming:

and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely, seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun and inclusive. Hey, Craig, how's it going?

Craig Romano:

Good. Good. You know, I just had one of the most amazing experiences on one of my recent hikes that I'm just dying to talk about.

Jennie Flaming:

Okay, so, yeah. So for everybody listening, we're going to talk about wildlife encounters on hikes in Washington with this episode. And I want to just start by saying, like some safety related things will come up, but that's not really the topic. So we are going to do another episode about wildlife safety, but this one is more for Craig and I to just share some of our wildlife encounters, and we would love to hear from you. We've got that option to text us, so we would love to hear about your wildlife story, I can't respond to that text, so unless you like, put in your email address. So but we could talk about it on a future episode, which would be really fun. And if you have questions about wildlife safety, that'd be a great place to put them also. And then in a future episode, when we talk about that, we can address those. Okay, Craig, so let's, let's talk about, first of all, what are some of the animals that people can encounter on trails? Oh,

Craig Romano:

where do you want me to start? So, so to start up to me, one of the most exciting things about being on the trail is the chance, the opportunity, you never know, of encountering a wild critter. And of course, we usually see the little guys. So the mega fauna is what I live for. And so I've encountered in my hiking some, a lot of mega fauna, and a lot of right here in Washington. So what do I want to talk about? And again, it depends on who you are and how you run. You might be absolutely terrified to encounter one of these, or you like me, it's just Wow, amazing. So we're talking all your unglets, you know, your deer, but then you get the big guys, the moose, you know, the elk, those guys, we can talk about the cats, bobcats, links, mountain lions, cougars, right? The canines, coyotes, wolves, foxes, things like big horn sheep, mountain goats, you know? Oh, am I leaving out any of the mega fauna here,

Jennie Flaming:

bears you're leaving. So

Craig Romano:

how can I leave out bears? I know bears, of course, you know which I've seen more bears than I can possibly count, and that includes black bears and grizzly bears in this part of the of the country. So definitely want to talk about some of these guys. But you know, some of the the Muse delays, the weasels can be really cool. That includes, not, you know, not only mink and otters, the more lovable ones, fishers, Martins, Wolverines, so now they start getting a little less colier. So I think seeing any of these, these critters, on the trail is exciting. It really is. Most of those critters I just mentioned I have seen on the trail. There's just a couple that I that are still on my must see list. And I'm gonna break

Jennie Flaming:

in here and just say that I am terrified about wildlife on the trail, and I also think it's really cool. So if you're thinking, like, oh, this sounds so scary, like I feel you and yeah, but I also think it's really cool. Okay, so yeah, back to where you

Craig Romano:

were, Craig. So back. So let me tell you my latest in when we recorded this, and in February I was down. This is not, this is not in Washington. Though I've, I've seen this critter in Washington, but I've only seen this critter twice in the wild in all my hiking. So we're talking 1000s, 1000s of miles a mountain lion. I was down in Southern California, of all places, Riverside County in a wildlife preserve in the foothills of the Santa Ana Mountains. Um late I was wonderful place hiking. I was on a 12 mile hike. I only encountered three people the entire day. So again, we talked about places to get away from the crowds. And late in the day. Sunset was at five. It was about 3 45 so things are are starting to get dark, which needs to. Critters are starting to come out. Now, coyotes all over the place. In this Preserve. I've been there before, this Coyote, they're they're all over the place, and you have to watch. You got to keep those. Keep the coyotes in safe distance, too. We can talk about those guys too. A lot of people worry about wolves, but there's been a coyote attacks. But I wasn't too concerned. I was watching them, but towards the end, I'm coming in towards the trail head. I got a half mile to go, and I'm watching this very large, brown, what I thought was a coyote, first crossed the trail, and then I looked at it, and it had a long tail. It had raised hind legs in the back, just a totally different gait. And I'm sitting there going, that is not a dog, that's a cat. And I watched it walk across in some high grass and just crouched right down, just like my cat would do, this perfect cat. And I zoomed in on my phone. Sure enough, it was a cougar. It was a mountain lion, and it was looking right at me. So I think I don't know. It could have just been in the grass, thinking it was camouflaged. And and just kind of staring out. I was still in safe distance somewhat. And of course, all those feelings, Jennie, I was absolutely amazed. Like, oh my god, it's a mountain lion. I mean, I you know, they're out there. I've been tracked, but to see one is just unbelievable. But the same thing, it's like, Oh, my God, it's a mountain lion

Jennie Flaming:

It's like, I'm out here. I mean, they're really dangerous animals,

Craig Romano:

yeah, and it right? And they can be, uh, absolutely. So I don't know if it was a male or a female, um, because you, you, of course, you always want to when mamas, it's early in the year, so it mamas didn't have any if it wasn't mom, I think it was a an adolescent, what, and, and it wasn't displaying any, any aggressive behavior. So it was just kind of sitting there. It looked like, like my house, like my like my cat at my house, just kind of sitting there, really cute, like you want to go up in bed, uh, just

Jennie Flaming:

a little bigger, just only a little because your cat is really big, but

Craig Romano:

this cat was really big. But I mean, cute. I mean cat faces are cute. I mean, either a cat person or dog cats are cute. Um, so, but I'm thinking I gotta get around in a trail. I think it's just, you know, just kind of sitting there, just chilling, and I just, um, you know, kind of talked in a low voice, kind of looked at it, kept my eye, but kind of lost vision of it because it was in the grass as I got around, but I grabbed some rocks just in case, and never turned my back on the area on and just kind of got into safe distance. And at that point it's like, holy cow. You know? It's like, the heart's going, Yeah, and it's unbelievable that last half mile coming into the trailhead. I'm looking at everything. Is that I'm outlined, but, yeah, absolutely amazing to see one of these things. And again, let me just back up. You know, whenever you mentioned Mountain Lion, people think, Oh, my God, there's been a couple of, you know, a couple of attacks. Is that scary? Yes, there has been a couple of tech a couple. Think about how many millions of people are out on the trail constantly. Now, do the math. What is your chance of being attacked by a mountain lion? And you've got to keep that perspective, because people start free not to say Cavalier, but your chances again. I've hiked so much, they're out there. It is amazing to see something like that that I'm not worried about. People ask me all the time, aren't you worried about bears? No, the biggest thing I'm worried about are unleashed aggressive dogs. I've had incredibly bad encounters with them, and they scare that the living heck out of me. Yeah, I had a better experience with this, with this mountain land. So, you know, we'll talk about safety and upcoming what to do, but that was one of my most thrilling wildlife sightings, and it was just recently. Yeah, it was incredible. But you want to talk about bears. We have bear I've seen more bears than I can count, and I've seen Grizzlies too, not in Washington, closest Alberta and British Columbia. Sorry, Alberta and Montana, but the Grizzlies are here in the northeastern part of the state. And the same thing, I would love to see a grizzly in Washington, as long as I'm not between it her and I would

Jennie Flaming:

I'm gonna be honest with you, I would not like to. Well, I'm hiking. I have seen, yeah, you're in Alaska hiking. It is terrifying. I And you and I differ on this, which is why I'm glad we're doing this episode. Um, I'm not gonna talk about Alaska wildlife stories here, because first of all, you can listen to my podcast about Alaska if you want to hear those. But I lived there for a long time, for those of you who don't know or haven't caught that yet, and I still spend a lot of time there in the summer, and that is just a whole different regime in my mind. But I think in. Washington, it is easy for us to, like, dismiss taking this stuff seriously. And so I think, I think people tend to be, unlike you, I think people tend to be either like, terrified or like, this is no big deal. I'm never going to have an encounter. And what I tell people about Alaska, and I think this is good advice for anywhere where you can encounter wildlife, is it is incredibly rare for a person to be attacked by any wildlife while hiking, right? And it does happen, right? So it's like, it's incredibly rare, but also there are precautions that you need to take and and you need to take it seriously, and that's kind of what I do. I'm scared, and I do it anyway, and I follow the precautions I do. My behavior is different in Alaska, but that's a whole other No.

Craig Romano:

And even here in the Northwest, in black bear country. And again, black bears can attack. And matter of fact, most people are attacked by black bears, not grizzly bears. And most people, matter of fact, I think I mentioned this Jennie before I looked this, at the statistics where most bear attacks occur. And matter of fact, one of the the states that ranks the highest for bear tax is not in the west at all. It's in the east. It's West Virginia. Yeah, and people, I think sometimes people don't, yeah, they don't take it seriously. I always take being in wildlife country seriously. I'm a trail runner. I have to look at that. I encountered a grizzly bear while I was trail running in Alberta. So you've got to that's scary. It was, it was, it was very intense, incredibly intense. So you always gotta, you always have to be smart about these things. But to me, again, this is the things I live for. Yeah, it's just again, you can be over the caution, I I'm terrified, and then you don't get nearly the experience again. You know, just don't leave your house if you're worried. Because the again, I've said this over and over again, and I'm not diminishing fear. What the most dangerous thing I do on every hike is drive to the trailhead. I'm absolutely terrified on i Five. I would rather be out in grizzly country. Yeah, I Yes, but in grizzly country, um, I am taking precautions. And especially when I'm hiking in British Columbia, I've got bear spray on me. There are trails you shouldn't be alone. I'm not running, you know, I'm looking at the reports. You definitely you have to be smart. But again, if you see a grizzly, and if you see a grizzly in Washington, it's going to be incredible, because there aren't that many of them here, so And likewise, wolves, that's another wolves. I've had a couple Wolf Wolf encounters. My very first, matter of fact, again, this a lot of people, my very first encounter wolves was not in the West. Was in the east. It was on Isle Royal National Park, which is Michigan, which is in Lake Superior. And I'll tell you, there's nothing so magical to be set up camp and you're listening to loons going off, and all sudden, adding to the loons are the wolves Halloween. Yeah. And so, um, when I moved out here in 1989 there were no wolves in Washington. There was this couple. We have a lot of wolf packs. Now the wolves have come back into the area. It is really exciting. And in all the years, I've still not yet seen a wolf in Washington, although a couple. I haven't either, and I know people have, and I've had people show me pictures of them, and it's amazing where they're at. But for the first time, a couple years ago, I got to hear wolves Holling in Washington, and they were really close. I was in the Loomis State Forest, which is near OMAC in that area, and which is where a lot of there's a lot of packs in that area. And it was just incredible to be out there and know, oh my god, there's wolves out here. This is how cool is that? Yeah, so I think wolves and grizzly bears and Cougars are probably the ones that people fear the most. Yeah, and it's gonna be incredibly rare if you see one. But if you do, you know, after your heart goes through the roof and you sweat and you know, yeah, if you check your underwear with you're going to be like, Wow, that was an amazing experience.

Jennie Flaming:

one time in North Cascades National Park on the thunder Creek Trail. I was backpacking there with a friend of mine, and we did not see a grizzly bear. However, we did see grizzly bear scat, really. That was, yes, that was quite fresh, and we decided that we had actually several more miles in us before camping. Not that that matters, because a grizzly bear can cover that ground. Oh, god yes. But we were like, we're not camping next to the fresh scat. That's not happening, even though there's probably no reason to worry. And that's

Craig Romano:

again, when you're looking at things you and you again to experience you party. When I'm camping in bear country, this is just basically, you should do this. You don't cook, you don't cook anywhere near your tent. You keep your camp. And this is, these are things, especially grizzly country, but even in black bear country. And the other thing too is, yeah, if you come across fresh carry on, or an area where there's fresh tracks or a lot of that's probably not going to be a good place to camp. Um, so you gotta, you gotta know these things. Mostly one time,

Jennie Flaming:

Jay and I were camping at second beach in Olympic National Park. Great beginner backpacking trip, by the way, because it's so it's short, it's mostly flat. It's like, you can bring a lot of stuff, because you're not going that far. Anyway. That's a wonderful place to camp. I love it out there anyway. So Jay and I had set up our tent and watched this beautiful sunset, went to bed and in the morning. And, you know, Jay grew up in Yellowstone. This is my husband. We're talking about, right? So he has been party to, not, not involved in, but like close to many bad bear situations, Yellowstone is a place that has, like glacier, that has a history of of problems between humans and problem

Craig Romano:

problem people. That's that's crazy situations. Yes.

Jennie Flaming:

So anyway, um, in the morning, there were black bear paw prints in the sand all around the tent, not encircling it, but like, very close to it. And I was like, ah, like, we never saw, I have seen quite a few black bears in Washington. We didn't see that one, but the wind had shifted and there was a seal carcass. Oh, wow, like 50 feet away, but we hadn't noticed it, because it was like we walked up from one side, we set up the tent, then we walked the other way, but we were down closer to the water, and the wind was blowing the other way, so we didn't notice it. But then in the morning, we're like, oh, this was a really bad choice of where to set up. Our going to what you were saying about the care, you know, yeah, not that no one wants to camp near a dead animal, but like, that isn't a place you want to hang out. That that's an issue. Usually could

Craig Romano:

smell dead, because, I tell you, Jay, you're talking about the coast, and I'm diverting a little but the absolute worst thing that I've ever smelled, maybe we'll do a chapter on this, a podcast. The worst thing I've ever smelled in the wild is a dead whale. It is the most foul. Oh, my God, it is. It is, yeah, it's rancid. It's awful. I think it scares the bears away too. I mean, it's awful. I

Jennie Flaming:

don't know. I mean, I'm gonna say that a seal, you're right. We should do an episode about this. Um, maybe. But around Halloween,

Unknown:

okay, dead whales are just

Jennie Flaming:

things. Kind

Craig Romano:

of a dead horse on the trail once too, and they don't smell nice either. Oh no, yeah, that's another

Jennie Flaming:

anyway, the seal was like, up there. It was pretty intense, and it was amazing, because the when the wind shifted, we could totally smell it, but we couldn't sell it before. Anyway, yeah,

Unknown:

so, yeah, grocery store to this guy. So yeah, again. But most wildlife, they don't want to encounter you. They're doing everything to stay away from you. And again, your better chances of seeing wildlife. Again, it's going to be on more remote areas or in busy areas during quieter time. So so again, later in the in most while it's more active, later in the day, early in the morning, Yep, those are always and again, I spend a lot of time on the trails during these periods, and I spend time alone on the trail, so I'm not talking, so I'm quiet. If you're with a group and you're taught, I mean, I mean, people have never seen a bear in the wild because they're always out in groups and they're talking, yeah? So again, if you don't want to see wildlife, there's all kinds of things you can do not to see them. But if you do, yeah, there's when you're on the trail, and also the behavior and being down. Same thing with the cougar. I was by myself end of the day, and I was downwind also, yeah, so all these things, he just launched. He or she just nonchalantly walked across the trail, not even knowing I was there. Because normally they wouldn't. They don't want to. They they don't want to be spotted, you know, right? So I'll tell you, we're talking about thunder Creek, which is interesting in that area, because I had my first encounter of this type of animal in this area. Again, we don't think about I've had lots of encounters of this type of animal back East. Again, moose. Moose are all over the place where I grew up, in the Northeast. So I've known how to how to hike around moose, because moose can be dangerous too, especially during the rut, I was trail running in a fourth of July pass, and I'm going up the trail, and all sudden, here comes what I thought was an elk coming down the trail. It was not an elk, it was a young moose, and it wasn't going to yield the trail to me. So I

Jennie Flaming:

like to they're like, I'm sorry. I had

Craig Romano:

to. Pop off the trail, get down. And one thing I know about moose. Moose have terrible eyesight, so I got behind trees and just kind of got out of its sight and let it go through so moose, and I've seen bull moose during the rut out in the Okanagan. They're all over northeastern Washington. Moose population has been growing in this area. They are always exciting to see. They're huge. Elk are incredible. But if you think elk are big, wait, TC, a moose, yeah. I mean, some of the big I've seen, and same thing, Alaska's got some giant bull moose out there, subspecies. But the moose out here are pretty big too. They're exciting. I have seen caribou, not here in Washington. We had woodland caribou that no longer live in the state, unfortunately. So that would, that would get they're exciting. I hope we get to those by Have you seen caribou in Alaska? Jennie, yeah, yeah, caribou cool, yeah. I actually, yes, yeah. I saw in Quebec. The Southern, most southern, most fascinating. They're cool. They have terrible eyesight too. Yeah.

Jennie Flaming:

Craig, while we're talking about ungulates, can we talk about elk a little bit? Yes, I know. Was it last spring, they or winter that you had the elk encounter that you showed me the photo where it kind of see, it was like in on the Olympic Peninsula somewhere. It wasn't ringing a bell, okay,

Craig Romano:

yes, and that was a big bull elk coming down in the in the whole rate where we are hiking the Snyder Jackson Trail, which is a very obscure trail which connects the whole watershed to the Bucha watershed. The trail is used more by elk going back and forth between the watershed. And here we are hiking up. It was one of the biggest bull bull elk I've seen come right down the trail and we stopped. It was, I switched back, and we yelled a lot, and it was not going to yield. It was like, I'm coming down, you guys, and we're in a very, very steep slope. Yeah. So we had to keep target and hike off the trail to let this thing get by us. Well,

Jennie Flaming:

because if it wants to just go and trample you, then it will,

Craig Romano:

it will, it will. So, yeah, it was, it was quite, it was quite thrilling. It was amazing, again, amazing to see it, but you have to keep a safe distance and talk. And we got out of the way. And you, you've got to, you know, you're not going to sit there and win against the big bull elk. And usually that's when you have to be more most concerned about, about elk and moose, is that obviously, any, any mom with the little ones, but this is, this is a horny male elk coming down the trail, right?

Jennie Flaming:

And, like, you don't you really need to, like, move over,

Craig Romano:

yeah, has one thing on his mind, because, yeah, he only hits this opportunity for about two weeks out of the year, right? And you're not going to disrupt this

Jennie Flaming:

process. You are not, and you can.

Craig Romano:

So it's better than we do not want to mess up the order of the

Jennie Flaming:

world, okay, Craig, I want to know what your favorite animal is to see in Washington while you're hiking? Yeah, I will also answer, and I think it might surprise you.

Craig Romano:

Well, bears are definitely but also mountain goats are always fun to see. Oh, yeah, and you

Jennie Flaming:

know, dangerous friends, if you're listening, don't, don't screw around with mountain goats. They can really hurt you. So all of these things about keeping your distance and giving away to them very important for goats, just because they're smaller, they have very pointy horns,

Craig Romano:

right? And both the male and the female both do, yeah. Um, anyway, yeah. And again, we're a part of the country. You know, mountain goats aren't as widespread as some of these other creatures I was talking about, so it's very, very thrilling to see them. They're in parts of the Rockies in the northwest. One of my very first hikes when I came out here in the summer of 1985 I was absolutely thrilled to death, because it was my very first hike in the North Cascades, and I encountered four mountain goats, and I was just beyond myself, because to me, that was like the North Cascades mountain growth. Yeah, they're cool. But some of the smaller critters, which I have not seen enough, pine Martins, have got to be one of the cutest critters on the planet. They are. I've only seen pine Martins, maybe three or four times, fishers. Same thing. They're a little nastier than the pine Martin, but they're cute. Those are cool. I love seeing those otters. Love watching otters. Otters are always fun. Fun to watch. Um, big horn sheep are cool. We have those in Washington on the east side of the Cascades and in the north northeast part of the state, they are very, very, very cool. Um, bobcats. Bobcats are cool. Uh, I've only seen one bobcat.

Jennie Flaming:

I've never seen one in this one,

Craig Romano:

yeah. And you're in every state. I think, I think they're in every state. They're they're so widespread. My mom's has them in her backyard, and yet, like, to me, it's like, Did I see one? I've not seen the links yet. That's still on my hit list. Yeah. But those are some of my favorites. Wait, What? What? But I guess I they're all my face. I

Jennie Flaming:

was gonna say you didn't give a favorite, Craig, let's try again. Oh, Craig, what is your favorite animal to see hiking in Washington? Oh, man,

Craig Romano:

probably bears. I love bears. That was kind of what you started to say. Okay, how about you? I'm well before I

Jennie Flaming:

answer, I wanted to mention that when you were talking about goats, there are parts of Olympic National Park and also, like the central cascades for people who are looking to see goats, like Lake Engle the lake Engels trail, it's very popular, but there, that's a I think I've never been there without seeing, yeah, goats. And, you know, you've got to keep your distance from that there. We've had too many triskets, and

Craig Romano:

we should do a podcast on goats, because I can some of the best places. I've got lots of suggestions of we're almost guaranteed not just see a couple, but see, you know, scores of them,

Jennie Flaming:

yeah. Um, okay, so, okay, my, if you want to know my favorite, okay, my absolute favorite animal to see on the trail in Washington is the pica.

Craig Romano:

You know, it's funny. I didn't even think of the pica. Um, what a riot. They are cute. They're amazingly cute. Usually hear them before you see them, if you see them at all. Yes, they are adorable, especially when they've got a whole bunch of Lupin in your mouth.

Jennie Flaming:

Yes. But, you know, I think the reason why I love seeing pika so much is because you hear them all the time. Yeah, right. No. I mean, if you're around rocks and it's above, like 3000 feet, you're probably gonna hear a pika, but seeing them doesn't happen that often. I mean, they're so small, yeah, and they go into and out of their little holes so quickly that I think it just really feels like a treat to see a pica. They are cute,

Craig Romano:

and I know some by far, yeah, and you said, usually don't see him. I remember sitting taking breaks by by a talus slope, and really quiet and a pica, unbeknownst that that I'm sitting there has popped his head right up. I mean, I've got some great close up shots, because I've been in that situation where it just popped up, not even knowing that I was there. Um, here's a little, little known fact about pika. You may know it. And of course, this is definitely boy humor. We love it. Pikas are two eaters. They eat their own dung. So we love my son. I got a 10 year old son. That's always a great topic to talk about.

Jennie Flaming:

Oh, yeah, there's nothing better than talking about poop with 10 girls

Craig Romano:

eats its own dung, you know, so love it. But they are. They're definitely

Jennie Flaming:

cute, yeah. I mean, I do. I also the most of the times, except for one that I've seen black bears here have been at a bit of a distance where it was, like, not scary at all. Like, one place is spray park in Mount Rainier, I've seen bears there. That's one of my favorite hikes in Washington. And I've seen bears there quite a few times. And same in Olympic National Park at hurricane Hill, which is a very popular area, but, like, I've seen him there, yeah, yeah, if you're hiking up the trail there, there's like, a big meadow kind of off to your right and below, and especially early in the day, early in the summer, I've seen black bear there, I think, three times. So that's quite a few. Um, and that that's not, that's awesome and not scary, because they're, oh yeah, they're way, they're focused on something else. You're, you're, you know, when I say further away, I mean, like a half mile or more, like, not close, but you see, fine when you're almost.

Craig Romano:

All my bear encounters have not been scary. The thing is, what you have to know again, same thing, the bears, again, never get between mom and the Cubs. And the other thing, if there's, I usually see a lot of bears in the fall, which is one of the best times, because that's when they're very, very active. They're they're fattening up for hibernation, and the berry crops are there, and if they got their head buried in the berries. They're usually not that interested. I always joke. They're not interested in Italian food. They're they've got the berries. So one of my I was in backpacking the Olympics in Lake La Crosse basin, which is a unbelievable area. 13 of I saw 13 bears on one hike. That's my record. That's amazing. It's incredible. And they were all great. And kind of me, they're all they they were just all eating. And they could care, you know, they they didn't care. That was out there, one of the most unique bear stories I had. You'll love this one same thing was in the fall, they're almost all that was on coming down from Shaffer Lake. This is over in the Chihuahua area, all by myself coming down. I looked at the side of the trail, and that's a half. The Bear. I saw half the bear. What it is. I just saw the rump. Its head was in the ground.

Jennie Flaming:

Yeah, so you really got to be careful there, because you don't want to startle it. Well, this really bad. You're,

Craig Romano:

you're definitely on my story, right? So realizing that I'm very, very close, because it's right there off the side of the trail. He's got his head in the ground because it broke. And I said, I better clap. Let this bear know I'm there. So I clapped. All sudden, he pops his head up, and you could see all the yellow jackets swarming. He was in, he was in a he was in a a nest, in a comb because, you know, trying to get eating. And soon as that happened, he took off running down the hill. And I always like to joke, you watch the old cartoons, it was like all the yellow jackets were forming an arrow, just like it was the craziest thing to see this bear pop its head out of out of the ground, and then the swarm around it, and it took off. But again, it was a younger one, and I think I can't remember if I talked about this. Usually the bears, you see the most are the young males, because the bear, the bears, will stay with mom for two years, and it's on the third year, they're on their own. And lots of times they still don't get it that that's a human being. You're not supposed to be near them, because some of them carry guns, you know, and they're going to hunt you. So lots of times when I've encountered a lot, are usually a juvenile bear out there, kind of just figuring out that you don't know yet you're supposed to be afraid of me. So so that that tends to be most of my encounter, but I, but I have definitely encountered mom in times and and you gotta be really careful in that situation. Yeah, really do. But again, it's thrilling. I know we've talked, I think it's amazing to see bears in a while, and I've seen so many bears, and I always, I find it's just one of the most exciting, exciting encounters, so in places you least expect it to I mean, it's amazing. Sometimes I was down in last spring Long Beach will at the bay. Matter of fact, I found it after Mary. It has one of the highest bear densities in the state. So again, you know, people are thinking in the Cascades, this is in matter of fact, one of the hills, the hill range, right outside. It's called the bear range. The bear Yeah, bear mount, yeah. Um, very appropriate, yeah. Even led better point, which is the tip of Long Beach. So you're in this bears. They're all over the place in there. The habitat is absolutely perfect for them. They have the apex species in there. So food, lots of lots of food. So the bear population is pretty healthy. The black bear populate pretty healthy in this part of the country. And actually in many part, I've seen bears in Florida. Same thing people, they're they're out there. So always exciting. So when we talk about wildlife, though, what about the stuff that's not so cuddly? Do you do you consider things like, I know Jennie, you love these things? Snakes?

Jennie Flaming:

Sure. I Well, I'm okay with snakes. It's spiders and spiders. I'm fine with snakes. So I don't want to get bit by a snake, but I do think it is pretty cool to see rattlesnakes on Eastern Washington. Yeah, hikes. I mean, it's a little scary, but it's also, you know, I pay extra attention to my like footwear in those situations. And you know, if I have my dog with me, which I don't hike with him that often, but if there is snakes around, I am like, extra careful to keep his lease short and next to me so he doesn't try to tingle with a snake or

Craig Romano:

absolutely and it's another thing that the bears in Cougars people are terrified around. And again, it's one of those. I've hiked so many miles in the state, and I can, I can count, you know, on two hands how many rattlesnake encounters have had, and they've all been fine. They're always startling. The northern Pacific rattlesnake is docile for rattlesnakes, maybe we should do a whole podcast on rattlesnakes and snakes. So it's cool when you see a rattle, it's a good idea, yeah, and talk about kind of demystify. And I actually had an encounter very cool. I went out with some Parks Canada wildlife biologist to a national park in in Eastern Canada to catch a rare, endangered rattlesnake. And we got to do all kinds very cool. So ratnakes are cool, but the coolest, by far, the coolest snake in Washington that I love encountering, and I've only encountered maybe three or four times, the rubber boa. The rubber boa is a cool thing. Is cuddly. It looks like a toy. It's not cuddly. It looks like a rubber snake. So

Jennie Flaming:

for what I'm gonna guess is 99% of people listening who have no idea what a rubber boa is. Where do we have them? In Washington? What's their habitat?

Craig Romano:

I've seen it mostly on the east slope of the Cascades and in the Columbia River Gorge. I've not seen one on the west side, though, I need to check they may be. Here, but I've never seen one here. They're a constrictor. They're really they're, they're, they're a docile constrictor. They are a native. They're one of two native constrictors in North America. The other one is Rosie boa. I love the name that when you Rosie's down in Arizona, in California, and rubbers up here. But the first time I saw one, I swear I came it was right on the trail, and then wasn't moving. I thought, God, some kid lost his rubber snake. And you realize that's a rubber boa, and it's rear end looks like a face as well, because it's to to to thwart predators, because it's so docile, it doesn't have venom, it doesn't bite. So if something's trying to sneak up behind, it looks like it's his face. So I'm not quite sure I have to do my research. Who eats those? Probably, you know, eagles and things like that, yeah? But they're, they're very, very docile, very, very cool, and they're constrictors. So that's how they get their food. They're gonna, they're gonna wrap around it. But if you picked one up, it's not, it's not like a Burmese python, it's like

Jennie Flaming:

nothing. Yeah, true. Um, also, if you're listening and you're like, What about birds? We're gonna do a vcu, and we'll do a different episode about birds. Um, because this is already a lot without birds, there's

Craig Romano:

so many. Well, yeah, talking about my favorite amphibians. I mean, I

Jennie Flaming:

love, yeah, yeah, we could. We could go a lot of places with birds, and we

Unknown:

have been talking about marine mammals too, I know,

Jennie Flaming:

but we're gonna do another we're gonna do a separate episode about that also. So if you're into wildlife and hiking and animals, we will have more episodes for you along these lines, and

Craig Romano:

we'd love to hear some of your encounters, and want to hear about your bear encounters. Have you seen the links? Yes, tell us. And Cougars always love hearing about

Jennie Flaming:

about mountains. Yeah, yes. Awesome. Okay, so once again, if you're listening, if you love the pod, we would love to have you rate us and review us that helps other people find it, and also just a reminder, if you're booking travel and you're going to book through Expedia, or you're buying something through Rei, use the link in our show notes, and that will help support the podcast and won't cost you anything beyond What you're already spending so thank you for being here. Thank you for listening, and bye for now. Hi everyone. This is Jennie. I hope you enjoyed this episode, Craig, and I love bringing these episodes to you, and I want to remind you about how you can support the podcast, you can leave us a tip or purchase Craig's books or sign up for my email list, and in addition to that, we have our affiliate link for Expedia and Rei in the show notes. So if you are making a purchase from one of those places and you follow the link that we always have in the show notes, then we will receive a small commission, and that helps us keep things going. So thank you so much for your support, and thank you for listening.

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host