The Washington State Hiking Podcast

What Impact will Federal Staff and Budget Cuts have on Washington Hiking this year with Anna Roth (Part 2)

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 63

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 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive.

 Our guest today is Anna Roth, and Anna has been on the podcast before one of our very first episodes where we talked about the work that she does and that the Washington Trails Association does here in our state. And Anna, so just to review for everybody, Anna manages the program at Washington Trails Association Association

all of the hiking content. So the hiking guide, all those things that Craig and I talk about a lot. So we asked her to come today. 'cause as we're doing a two-part series about what's going on with public lands and what hikers here in Washington can do to help. Anna, welcome back. Thank you.

It's nice to be back. Yeah, it's great to have you again. We're in this time of like immense uncertainty and we've, we hike on federal lands and we hike on state lands. Can you give everybody from your perspective here at WTA kind of what the current landscape is looking like and that sort of thing.

And then we'll get into kind of what to expect and what hikers can do. 

Yeah, absolutely. As your listeners probably know, there has been a real reduction in investment at the Forest Service and at the National Park Service. So that's at the federal level. The immediate effects of those firings was largely a shakeup at the Forest Service and at the National Park Service.

Since February when those firings initially happened a lot of people got rehired thanks to a lawsuit that was brought in the case of these illegal firings. But there's plans currently for reductions in force, which is abbreviated to. And so we're anticipating having. A essentially a second round of firings at both of these two agencies.

Yeah. In the coming months. And as far as hikers and the effect on that having fewer on the ground employees at the Forest Service and at the Park Service really means that the experience for hikers. Could be impacted by bathrooms being locked or maintained less frequently. We might see more trees down on trail.

Winter damage not getting cleared quite as quickly as normal. Yeah. And of course, visitor centers being closed or having reduced hours permits being distributed less frequently or again, like within those reduced hours. So maybe a little bit more challenging to get the permits that you need to camp in those popular areas.

And. What came to my mind when you said that was like backcountry permits and Olympic National Park, Mount Rainier National Park, is that. What you were thinking. 

Yeah. And North Cascades National Park as well. Yeah. All of those parks have back country permits, if I recall correctly. Olympic, I believe, is changing the way that they distribute their permits this year.



And some of that, could potentially make it easier and maybe brings the parks into the 21st century to a certain extent, but, the fact remains that hikers really do need that touch in with the Rangers so that you can, under the rangers, can understand where you're going and what you're hoping to do.

Yeah. And so that you have the opportunity to ask about current conditions and understand how to stay safe while you're out there. And that's where these reductions in force are really gonna impact the hiking experience this summer. Yeah. And maybe into the future. 

Yeah, absolutely. And listeners I should have mentioned right at the beginning, so Anna and I are having this conversation.

On May 6th, and then this episode will be live on May 15th. So just keep in mind as you're listening, we're recording this at a moment in time. Many of these things may change. Just keep that in mind and I, this is probably a good time for me also to mention, and this won't be the first time you've heard me or that you've heard Craig talk about it.

The Washington Trails Association is an amazing resource for hikers, both the hiking guide, but also the trip reports. So if you're encountering things like this, leaving a trip report so other people know, and so that the staff here know I. What's going on and also become a member and support them.

Okay, cool. So you can move on from that. So you talked a little bit about federal things. Anna. Can you talk a little bit about what's happening in state government and on state lands and how that may impact Tuckers? 

Yeah, absolutely. I also always like to say a pretty large number of the most popular hikes in Washington are actually on state lands.

So Mount Sai. Beacon Rock State Park down in the Southwest area. Mount Spokane. Yep. Oyster Dome is all part of LAR State Park. I think Oyster Dome might be just outside of it, but still very proximal to state lands. Yeah. So a lot of times the impact that the state budget has impacts these really popular hikes that many people don't realize are actually managed by Washington State Department, either of Department of Natural Resources or the state parks.

Yeah. Yeah. 

The budget this year, I. Actually WTA considers that a budget that passed is actually was pretty good considering like what we were looking at when we were going into the session. Yeah. We had initially asked for $10 million per state agency. That would be state parks Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, and the Department of Natural Resources to steward the state's recreation lands.

The budget did actually preserve a majority of that funding. So we got seven and a half million per agency. And then there's additional funds possible based on Discover Pass sales. So if you needed motivation to buy your Discover Pass, know that the money is going to go to any of the agencies that manage state land in Washington.

, can you say just a little bit there about WTA a's advocacy work because people who are familiar with you may not know about. Yeah, that part of it. What does it mean to ask for that money for these agencies? Oh, sure, 

sure. Every year, WTA puts together a list of legislative priorities that we think are important for recreation lands, and that's both at the state and the federal level.

And we have an advocacy department here. Consisting of just a few people, when you've got the right people, you don't need that many. You can have a meaningful one-on-one meeting with a lot of legislators and get a lot of trust built and a lot of work done. 



So WT puts together these legislative priorities based on , understanding what our land manager partners would like to see done.

Yeah. 

What projects they've prioritized, and then our priorities often emphasize or echo priorities of other. Departments and other agencies. Yeah. So for example, this year we supported the Department of Natural Resources ask to improve recreation on their lands. And that our support behind that ask was great.

They fully funded it and it's gonna go into, phase two of Trails projects that are at Olson Creek up near Bellingham and in the Tway Community Forest, which is a super popular area that we're Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. 

Yay. More trails. Yeah, I know. So lots of a growing number of Washington hikers.

That's really cool. 

Totally. And the advocacy work is really, it's an interesting part of being a hiker in Washington because it's the sort of thing where if you. You might have to live here for a really long time to see the effects of advocacy work that you do. So when I started here at WTA, just a couple years after that, so it would've been maybe like 20 14, 20 13 was when the TNA Community Forest was adopted as a community forest by this coalition of. Nonprofits and other organizations and we are just now finishing up the Trail network and finishing the trails plan. And obviously, like I said, this funding for this year is gonna go towards fa phase two of that project plan and finalizing that.

So advocacy is incredibly important work, but it does take a long time to see results on the ground. 

 Okay, cool. So given that not totally dire news about our state budget yay.

 What things would you expect to be different, if any, on state lands for hikers this summer? 

That's a good question. I think across the board state and federal lands, I think you could probably anticipate a slower. Clearing of trails. Yeah. Honestly, for state lands, I haven't heard very much in terms of, a departure from the norm.

Yeah. Obviously seven and a half million isn't $10 million, but it's quite a bit of money and there's gonna be some projects. It's not zero. There's still just general maintenance happening. Yeah. I think the biggest impact is gonna be on the federal lands where, yeah. Yeah, we've had such a dramatic reduction in the staff available on the ground to do things like clean toilets and clear trails.

Yeah. That that I think is where people are really gonna see it. 

 I know it's been a little bit of doom and gloom, but we are still doing some trail maintenance and they're still volunteer organizations that have gotten these projects or had projects approved last year that they're still working on. I've, seen a couple of trip reports even this week calling out WTA crews that the hiker saw in the field, so WTA a's out there, yeah. Anybody who is familiar with our volunteer program or who has tried to volunteer with us this year has probably realized like our volunteer. Work parties are chock full with long wait lists and it's so great to see hikers trying to step up and just help out in any way that they can. Big thank you to anybody who's joined a work party and a big thank you to anybody who's on a wait list.

We would love to see all of you, and we're doing our best to accommodate. Love it. But partially because of this federal funding, we have had to reduce some of our work parties on federal land. 

Yeah. 

And shift some of our work into county land. City land. All that being said. We've done five backcountry response teams already this season.

And it's May so our season just kicked off Yep. Basically last month. Yep. 

We just finished a couple of lost trails found hitches, which is our professional trail crew. And the first volunteer vacation is wrapping up. I think they'll be finished tomorrow and they're down at Prince Creek on the Lakeshore Trail.

Cool. So the nice thing is that a lot of these, really iconic trails, WT Hass worked on the Lakeshore Trail for 15 years. Yeah. That's getting the maintenance that it needs this year. Especially because of that fire last year that was affected by the fire. 

And we're talking Lake Chelan.

Lake Chelan, the Pioneer Fire. In trip reports that I've reviewed, I. Have seen some notes about trees being down. I'm sure that as the high country melts out, we'll see more reports of trees being down and trails being clogged or blocked by that. Yeah. But for now, in the early spring, it's seeming like people are not having too much of a hard time.

And if it's not the forest service or the Park Service doing the trail work, there's other volunteer crews out there that are helping keep trails clear. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. And it seems since we know. National Parks in particular are so popular and we know that they've been hammered by these firings, and we are unfortunately expecting that to get worse.

It sounds like this could be a good summer to explore our state lands, county lands, or even some Forest Service trails depending on the situation. 

Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be, I, it's hard to say what it's gonna look like in the summer, right?

Yeah. Are people gonna know that? National parks are understaffed and so they maybe don't go, maybe they're worried. The experience isn't gonna be that great. I think your advice is good though. State lands are amazing recreation areas. They are, and maybe in the last five or six years was when I really pivoted and I was like, man, I can backpack at state parks.

I can hike for, I like a long hike. I like a 15 mile big loop. I can do that at Tiger Mountain. I can do that at Wallace Lake. Yeah. There are, sorry, Wallace Falls. There's all sorts of amazing state opportunities. Now, the one thing I would say is if everybody decides to explore state lands, you might find yourself with a lot of your friends.

Yes. On one trail, or, really check out those booking systems. The state parks especially has a online reservation system for camps campsites and cabins. And definitely check that out. Make your reservation in advance. Yes. Respect the reservations you've got and, just, bring a little bit of joy and politeness to your encounters with other people. 

 I know I'm not the only person who feels this way, but it just feels what can we possibly do to help? And so I'm wondering if you can talk about that a little bit from your perspective for the typical Washington hiker. What are some things that they can do to prepare for an experience on the trails this summer, but also is there anything we can do to help and what would that be?

Yeah. As far as going out this summer, I would say. Mentally prepare yourself to turn around. Be, especially if you really like deep back country hikes. And I'm, I say that just because, there's a high likelihood you're gonna run into downed trees or some sort of obstacle that hasn't been addressed yet.

Yeah. In terms of trail damage. But also consider that with strapped resources there won't be as much search and rescue available. Yeah. And so we're really encouraging hikers to like, bring along that extra little thing that's gonna keep you safe in your pack. Yeah. Even if you think you're just doing a regular day hike.

Think twice or three times about, trying a river crossing if it looks a little bit high. Yeah. I know I turned around just below the summit of Tongue Mountain a couple of weeks ago because, and I was so frustrated because I had never been out there and I love it out in the dark divide.

It's so pretty and I didn't think I was gonna be able to do any length of this tongue mountain trail. But the snow right below this little shoot that you have to climb to get to the summit was like just soft enough. And I was just under prepared enough that I thought, I can't get hurt out here. I. I don't want to put that on anybody else.

Yeah. So I turned around 

 that's huge, right? Yeah. Being able to make those kinds of decisions Yeah. Is really important. 

Yeah. But having that mindset of, I could, my, my thought process really was, I know I can do this and I know I can get to the top, but.

If something happens. Who's gonna come get me and how are they gonna get here? And what are they not gonna be able to do that they maybe needed to take care of in order to come get me? Yeah. And so I thought, you know what? I've seen what I've seen and I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the win that I've got, which was really helpful.

Nice job. Thanks. That's awesome. That's really tough to do. Yeah. That's a great example. 

Yeah. Yeah. I also, the other thing, let's see. So we've talked a little bit about like how to be prepared, pack that extra maybe water, little extra food. Yeah. Pack more layers than you think you might need. Especially if you're doing a real long day hike, be sure you've got that shelter.

So review the 10 essentials and consider taking whatever's gonna keep you just a little bit above what you'd normally take for your comfort level. Yeah. Yep. 

In addition, let's see. I've Al also mentioned the consider turning around. We also often recommend having a plan A, B, or C. If parking lot's super full, I still encourage that.

Have another location that you might wanna try? Yeah. The WTS app, WT Trailblazer. We just did an iOS release to fix a couple of bugs that we've had. So everything is like shiny and ready to be used. And it has a great find hikes near me feature. So if you get to a trailhead and you're like, oh boy, there's a lot of people here.

Or there's nowhere to park, you can use that, find hikes near me feature and find an alternate location.

On trail, honestly, one of the hugest things that hiker's gonna be able to do this year is pick up trash.  I spoke to somebody who was a seasonal employee who talked about picking up trash was one of the like, main things that they did. 

Every. 

Summer. And it was pounds and pounds of just the little stuff, the little like shard of plastic that comes off a granola bar or the hair tie or the twist tie.

Obviously, ideally nobody lets that get to the ground, but sometimes it falls outta your pocket, whatever. Picking up trash is really probably the biggest and most impactful thing. Yep. If you're gonna do that, I recommend having a, at least a couple of bags so that you can double bag it.

Yeah. Also gloves of course, or a grabber. Whatever's gonna make you feel more sanitary. Yeah. Carry hand sanitizer. And then when you throw it away, there's probably not gonna be a lot of trash service, so you'll need to take it all the way home. 

We've had a couple of people talk a little bit about oh, do some trail maintenance to help out or brushing or whatever.

 Even something as simple as brushing requires very specific training in how to do it, right? So that you are doing it according to the specs of the trail, and so that you're doing it so that it's safe for other hikers to pass through.

Yeah. Sometimes you're on a hiker horse trail and there's different specifications if you're on a horse trail. 

Yeah. Yep. 

But almost more so than that addressing a trail maintenance issue that you encounter. Without talking to the land manager means that land manager may have actually already dedicated time and resources to that project.

Yeah. And if they get out there and you've already done it, you've wasted their whole day and you've wasted all of the money that they've spent. Yeah. Maybe finding materials, maybe finding a crew. So it's really important. I know it's one of those things that everybody's I just wanna do something, but the something is pickup trash.

Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that  so it sounds like including that in, say, a trip report would be Yes.

A more helpful thing to do. 

Perfect segue to the next tip I was gonna give. If you do encounter something like a tree that's down or a washout or a clogged drain or something just drop a pin on the track that you're recording. If you're not, recording a track, kind of estimate where you are.

And then you can write a trip report and indicate where that is. Take a photo of the obstruction or of the trail damage, if you can. From far away is usually better because it helps give a sense of the scale. 

Yeah. 

If you want, you can send the information directly to the land manager.

All their contact information is online, but often having just a trip report with all that information included is sufficient. And land managers reference wts trip reports a lot, and so you can include that. 

 I know that sometimes trip reports sound oh my gosh, I have to write so much. You don't necessarily Pictures. Yeah, pictures do a lot of work. If you file the trip report using the app, WTH, trailblazer, you get a. Very easy form. That's split out into basically three stages.

You have to fill out the, like, where you were, what type of hike it was, whether you saw bugs, snow, et cetera, et cetera. And then you have a short section where you can add copy in a second page. And then the third option, you can add photos and you can add up to four pictures. They're right on your phone.

They upload directly. If you want to, you can add a little bit of context about the photos. In the copy of the trip report. But if not, that's totally fine too. Just hit upload. You can even do this offline and it'll try to re-upload the report once you get back on into service. So I super, super recommend it.

It is. Really helpful and far more people read and benefit from Trip reports than I think the average trip reporter knows. Yeah. I always try to say thank you so much for this information. It's great. Yeah. But truly like hundreds of people see these every day. Yeah. And they have certainly informed where I've decided to go.

And I. I hear every day about how helpful they're for other hikers. And like I said, land managers reference them too. Yeah. They're gonna be extra important. And I should say specifically, these trip reports, you don't have to report trail damage. If you went on a hike and you had a great time.

Let's see those pictures, let's hear how it went. Give us a sense of what the hike actually looks like, especially in the shoulder season into early summer. Yeah. Where there's not very much snow down in the lowland, but maybe you've got still quite a bit up higher. Yep. As that starts melting out, having photos of what you experienced when you went on your hike is so helpful to understand like what to expect when you go outside.

 I also do wanna talk really briefly about planning your hikes . Using trip reports. There's a couple of filters that I think a lot of people may not know about. Talk about that. 

Yeah. 

So on the trip report, landing page on WTA, there's a whole set of filters on the left hand side, and you can do.

Day hike, overnight, multi night backpack, whatever. But one of the ones that I use a lot is. You can filter by month. And if you filter by May, you get trip reports that have been filed in May going all the way back to the beginning of our website. 

Yeah. 

And it really helps get a picture of what that hike looks like at a point in time of the calendar year.

So if you're planning a hike in July and you're not totally sure it's gonna be melted out to camp wherever you're headed. 

Yep. 

Try looking for that hike in our database and then filtering by the month that you're gonna be there. Yeah. You can also filter by a date range. So if you're, maybe you're gonna be going over the 4th of July you can check, what did somebody do last 4th of July weekend?

Where did everybody in Washington go last 4th of July weekend. Yes. And what was good? And then the one other, the thing I do wanna mention for what the free, what can hikers do this year? We have another filter that we added just a couple of years ago and. This is in our hiking guide, not in the trip report view, but this one is for hikes that have not had a trip report in a certain number of days.

So we have hikes that haven't had a trip report in between 30 and 60 days, and then we have hikes without a trip report in 90 or more days. And the idea there is. If you're trying to, really go the extra mile for the hiking community and find a maybe less visited trail, use those filters to see where we don't have trip reports.

Yeah. And maybe get some hiker kudos for filing the first trip report this year for a location. 

Now, does that mean you maybe couldn't get there? Possibly. Also, possibly. True. But this is the filter for the more like adventurous minded, are you willing to go and without knowing exactly what's going on?

Yeah. Obviously my caveat is be safe, yes. You don't need to be a hero if the conditions are really gnarly. You don't need to do it for the trip report, but. But I think it's a pretty cool way to find locations that maybe other folks are not visiting as much. 

 Anything else, Anna, that you wanna talk about for what Hikers can do this year?

Sure. 

Yeah. Just a couple of other things. I think the one other kind of WTA centric action is I would say if you're not already part of it, join wts Trail Action Network. You can do that by going to wta.org/tan, TAN. This is an email list essentially that we when there are petitions to sign advocacy actions to do, this is the list that we send it to.

Yep. 

One single letter is maybe not gonna do the most, but a, thousands and thousands of hiker voices talking about the priorities they have for Washington State is really gonna make a difference. If, if you don't think your signature on a petition is gonna make a difference, it will, I promise it will it?

Like I said at the beginning, advocacy is a slow burn. Yeah. And it's a collective action, so we need everybody. To jump in order to get the wins that we're looking for. 

Yeah. 

And I think the last thing I just wanna mention is please give agency employees a lot of patients this year. Yeah. There's not a lot of them left and it's, I can imagine it might be a frustrating summer for a lot of us, but just.

Pack your patients. 

Yeah. Don't take it out on 'em. Yeah. Or other hikers. 

Yeah, exactly. Folks are stretched thin, folks are emotional. It's high tension. People are getting outside to escape and just try and. I try and remember that you're everybody else's trail of traffic. 

 Before we go, Anna, is there anything else you wanna say to hikers or any other.

Final wisdom or advice you wanna share ? 

 For anybody who's listening, who's a WTA member. Thank you so much.  You make a lot of the work that we do happen. If you aren't a member and you utilize WTS resources, consider a donation. We do have a three times annual . Magazine, print magazine. Plus a calendar that comes out every year. And you can get discounts on volunteer vacations too as a member.

Okay. And yeah, download that app. WT Trailblazer. Yeah, it's super helpful and maybe Jenny can confirm that. 

 I use it all the time.  The thing , that I love most .  Is that you can use it offline.

 If you have the app and you save a hike in your account, then you can see it when you're offline. Yep. And you can see, is it the last three or five trip reports?

And I will say since this did come up the backpack specifically, one of the bugs that we just resolved, literally like today in iOS, was when you had.

Like a large, we call it a large my backpack, but if you had more than like 25 hikes saved your, my backpack didn't show, but it's been fixed. Awesome. Yeah. Yay. So fantastic. So again, if you're an iOS user and you've been struggling with that bug please give it another shot because we did fix that.

And that is also one of my favorite functions too. That offline is fantastic. It's really saved my bacon. 

Yes. For sure. Thank you so much, Anna, for coming back. It's great to talk to you. Thanks for everything you all are doing to help us navigate this. Thank you. Crisis you and also when we're not in a crisis.

Yes, we are here when there's not an emergency also. 

Yeah.  📍 Thank you, Jenny. This is always really fun. 

 If you are enjoying the Washington State Hiking Podcast, Craig and I would love to have you leave us a rating and a review that helps other people find us. And if you wanna support us financially, you can leave us a tip through the show notes. No account, no commitment, nothing like that. Thank you so much for listening and see you next week.

 

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host