The Washington State Hiking Podcast

Hiking and Goats

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 81

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 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive.

 

 Hey Craig. How you doing? Hey, Jennie. Good. 

You know what really gets my goat, 

Craig, 

I'm sorry. This is 

a pun free zone. 

Oh, I'm sorry. I was feeling a little sheepish and I didn't know. Stop. 

Okay. I'm not gonna ram any 

more of these bad puns down Craig. Stop. People 

are gonna hate us and we'll never listen to us again.

Okay. Maybe that's just me. I feel like the rest of the world loves puns. I'm like the only one. 

Yeah. Are you being the nanny state here telling me what I can a little, yeah. 

Alright, so we're talking about goats today and I think, I feel like I'm always the person saying this kind of stuff, but that's fine.

Before we get into how cool goats are and places to see them hiking, I just wanna say that goats are actually pretty dangerous animals and I think people think of other animals as being a bigger deal, but definitely hikers in Washington. It doesn't happen often, but have. Have been attacked by goats.

So I think I just wanna mention before we start don't ever feed a goat ever and give them, don't ever feed any 

wildlife ever, 

any wildlife. And give them some space, don't get close. Those horns are sharp and vicious and just keep your distance and enjoy them. That's the main thing I wanted to say about that.

So those horns have killed. Grizzly bears and wolves. Yes. Because there was a documented recently of a goat taking down a grizzly bear in, I think in Montana. So yeah, that's their defense mechanism. Yeah. But yes, they are cute. But like all wildlife and all wildlife is potentially dangerous. A shrews gonna attack you if yep. You corner it and it's got young yes. Observe goat. From a distance. Yes. So do you want, so 

yeah, that said, let's start generally with what. Types of hikes, what areas of Washington are people like to likely to see goats? Let's start there, but 

I wanna start somewhere else.

'cause I'm such a geek and I, okay. And I want people to get a better ex experience about hiking. Again, if you read my books, I go beyond just, Hey, isn't it a pretty view? I want you to walk away with a much deeper appreciation. Let's start with goats, mountain goats.

Jennie aren't actually goats. Did you know that? 

I did actually. 

Yes, I figured you did. Yes. They're actually more, they're goat antelopes. So their closest relative is like the the Shao in, in Europe. I think getting back to horns in mountain goats, both the male and females have horns.

On this. Okay. So you can't, you can't tell 'em apart that way. And then where do they live? Where do these, they're called Rocky Mountain goats or goats. You obviously rock, so obviously here in, in most of Washington. But historically, Idaho, Montana, Washington, British Columbia, Alberta, and into extreme Southern Yukon territory.

There are introduced populations now that have established in parts of Oregon, Colorado, New Mexico, some of these other areas, but they're not just there was an introduced population in the Olympics historically where they did not live. And the Park Service has pretty much eradicated the goats in that area.

We could talk about another program Jennie, how, they have those horns. What is the number one cause of mortality for a mountain goat? 

I don't know, but I'm gonna guess it's falling. 

Yeah. Is that isn't falling. Yeah. There's very few animals that, that can take down a goat because where they live if you ever see where they defy logic where they live.

That's one of their best defenses. They're young are prone. So a cougars or grizzly bear, may may have the opportunities there go after bald eagles. Same thing with the young, but for the most part, yeah they just die of of hiking, making a miscalculated cross a across a snowfield or a, or an, a a fall.

But yeah they're truly fascinating animals. And I've gotta say, I grew up back east. I always was enamored with him my very first hike. When I came out here in the summer of 1985 to hike in the North, cascades Cutthroat Pass, four mountain goats walked right across the trail in front of me.

I couldn't have had a better introduction. So we're gonna tell you places. If you've never seen a goat on the trail we're gonna help you find those goats. Find, yes, find. Oh, and I should add one last thing. This is sad. So if we went back to 1961. Okay. The year I was born, matter of fact, there was estimated about 10,000 mountain goats in the state of Washington.

It's down about 3,500 now, so the population is not doing so well. And there, there's a legal hunt, but that's been held back. There are tribes that, that, that have spent that the goat has meant a lot to 'em. They've taken Yeah. And all kinds of things, why this is happening. So they're becoming rarer here.

And that's that's concerning. Okay. 

Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you mentioned that because goats are one of those animals that have, important cultural meaning and have been introduced and hunted and all kinds of things have happened with this population. So Craig, you mentioned Cutthroat Pass.

The first place that always comes to my mind when I think of goats is Lake Ingles and Ingles Pass, near CLE area. A lot of goats there. That's a soup. Both of these hikes we just mentioned are super popular hikes, but I don't think that I've ever. Done Lake Ingles without seeing quite a few goats there around Ingles Pass.

So I think of them as being in these sort of rocky, alpine areas, four or 5,000 feet. Are there other places beyond that or is that their primary habitat? 

Yeah, they're, they're grazers, they're grazing. I'll tell you the. The goat bingo jackpot for me where I stumbled upon more than 50 goats.

This is incredible. So it's a place a lot of people aren't gonna think about. It's in the North Peak wilderness. So the North Peak wilderness is in the rain shadow of Mount Rainier. This isn't very far from Seattle. Two areas in particular in there. I've seen so many goats. So I've hiked up North Peak and then down into Basin Lake and I've sat in that Lake Basin and watched a, a train of goats going across the ridges in there.

But where I've seen the most, it's five's peak. So you're going down the other side, American River. So if you live in Yakima, this is an hour, hour half drive to get to the trailhead, going up Fife's Ridge. What I did, I got to the ridge and I went off trail to scramble up the peak. And I'll never forget this hike.

It was amazing. I'm scrambling up and I'm getting up to it and I'm like, my God, it smells like a petting zoo up here. And I sit up on the top of the ridge, I look down and I'm right above the wallow. There are 50, I count them. There were 50 goats there of every age class. Mind blowing. I have never seen so many in my life.

That's an incredible spot. 

Wow. That I've never seen that many either. It's 

incredible. Again, I was off trail. I was in an area, so that had a lot to do with it. And then the other place where I've seen. Almost as many. And again, goat Rocks Wilderness. Who would've thought the Goat Rocks Wilderness? What 

The Goat Rocks Wilderness has?

Goat. The Goat Rock. I 

can't believe they named it. Hawkeye Point. So it's above Goat Lake. Geez. I apropos hiking up there and same thing, sitting up the top. Looking down below is soap and it's just a field of goats. Amazing. I mean there are, not just seeing one or two, but a lot, herds of goats.

Those are great. I've got lots of other places too. If you want me to continue 'cause I have a, yeah 

keep going. 'cause like I 

have a great goat history. 

Yeah, I know you do. And that's why we talked about doing this episode. 'cause it's oh Craig, you just know so much about goats. So goats.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be great. Yeah, so our, keep it going. Our volcanoes, 

our v Mount Adams. Oh yeah. Not as much on the south slope, which is where most people go. There's a climb, but if above Adams Meadows Adams Creek's meadow there's a brand new lake in that area. Because the snow, we seeing everything.

I remember the last time I was up there, there's just nothing but ghost goat turds and all the snow all, and where there are goat turds are gonna be goats. And so sure enough, herds of goats I've been over into the, the Devil's Garden, which is the highest point on the Highline that goes around Mount Adams.

So right on the Yakama Nation border with the wilderness area. I've seen scores of goats in there too. Up it's over 7,000, 8,000 feet. It's all fields up there. It's all Meadows. This great area Mount St. Helens. It's amazing over the years, the goats. I climbing I, when I was climbing the mountain a couple years back, there were a couple goats right at the summit, but usually you see them.

Yeah, I saw, have you seen 'em up there on the summit? Saw I 

saw goats climbing Mount St. Helens too. I actually forgot that I had seen them there, but Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So 

today wanted to get a T-shirt too. That said, I, I climbed the volcano. But there's a lot of 'em too, just if you're doing the Lewi trail, looking up on those ridges, especially as St.

Helens is coming back now and colonizing plants and that's food for the goats and they're loving it. So the goat population has actually really grown there since the eruption. And in Mount Rainier. In Mount Rainier, one of the best goat, almost a guarantee is Mount Fremont the Fremont Lookout.

If you go to su, especially early morning, there's always a large herd that hangs out there. Yeah. Burrows Mountains. Another, there's there frequently a lot of goats at Burrows. And 

Craig, I just wanna pause for a second. Can you talk, so Mount Fremont boroughs, mountain Sun, sunrise. This sunrise, this is the sunrise area.

Sunrise, which we've talked about before, as being, it's definitely getting busier. But it's way less bananas Than Paradise. Paradise. And that's my favorite. Same high alpine part of Mount Rainier National Park. Same here. So just wanted to break in and say 

that whole area, if you go frying pan creek up in that area if you go off trail again, is a route to Banshee Peak, which is really a fantastic same thing.

I've been up there in Banshee and just goats galore. Goat galore in that area. So that whole part of the park again, and right across the highway four 10 is the North Peak wilderness. That, that is a goat heavy area. I remember I see more goats in that area than opposed to the North Cascades because when you think about it, north Cascades, the goats need good grazing areas and everything, and it's just too much rock and ice in this area.

But in those. Those volcanoes and some of those central areas, there's a lot more better habitat for them for those high meadows above ridges and stuff where a lot of predators can't get in and people. So these are all excellent areas. Mount s another area I've been it's in my a hundred classic hikes.

It's in the Willie O. Douglas Wilderness, rain Shadow Rainier. I've seen goats up there too. So a lot of great places to check 'em out. Yeah. 

I totally agree. What about we've talked about lots of different mountain areas in eastern Washington. Are there goats in like the Selkirks or the Kettle River range, or not so much?

No goats in the kettles. No goats in the American silk groups up in British Columbia, yes. Got it. So if you're got up, you're up in glacier Park up there. Got it. There are goats I believe, I gotta look this up. I think it's the Wallas and Northeastern Washington was an introduced herd.

I believe there are a handful. I'm not. Entirely Sure. I gotta look that up. I, but I believe Got it. Are got, I have not seen them. Okay. But they're pretty much established there. Yep. And then the cell creeks in Idaho you'll see some and then as you go farther over the yak cabinet, I've seen them in Glacier National Park in Montana.

Waters said you start getting into heavy goat country again in those areas too. 

Yeah. Awesome. These are some great suggestions for goat viewing. So goat fans, this is where to go to see goats.



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People on this episode

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host