The Washington State Hiking Podcast

This Weekend's Larch dilemma

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 83

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 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive.

 Hey Craig. Hi, Jennie. Happy, happy October. I love October. I know I do too. And don't I say that about everything though? I'm, you know, I think the pattern here, people start realizing no matter what you're gonna say, I'm gonna say I love, but that's not entirely true.

It's not entirely true because I have to work really hard to love November and March. Yeah. November and March can be challenging months. That's, that's why I traveled during those months. I'm, I'm going to Florida in November. So that's, that's, that's a good idea. I never do that, but that's a good idea. Um, okay, so we're, this is something like a little different from what we normally do because normally we're recording kind of further ahead.

Yes. So right now we're recording this on October 1st, and this episode is gonna be up in like. 12 hours. Well, I think this makes us like news people or something, but we're not committing to making a habit of this. We're not making a habit of it. Since I'm the one that edits these podcasts, it makes me a little stressed out to be Got it, recording it the day before, to be honest with you.

But sometimes that makes sense for various reasons. Like the topic we're talking about today, which is the. Ethics and decision making around these banana pants, you know, lunch hikes you have in our state. And I was just thinking, I was reading something came on one of my feeds, like we were finding coffee and stuff. Right, right. That's gonna play in really well to what you're talking about because, um. Newsflash in case you live in a cave or somewhere, the government just shut down. Right. And I think what you're gonna talk about I wanna address also.

So this is perfect that we're doing this. It is perfect. Yes. Yeah. And so sometimes I think it's great to record something at the last minute. Yeah. Because that makes it very timely. Yep. That doesn't mean it can't change by tomorrow. No. And in the government's case, I wish it would, but of course I don't feel good about this, of if you're listening to this a year from now.

Then who knows what's gonna be going on. But the government has shut down several other times in the past. It has. So, so right now we're recording this on October 1st. Yeah. The government just shut down. Just shut down few hours ago. Yeah. Yeah. And so we don't really know what that looks like yet. So we're gonna talk about what do we do?

With these crowded places that everyone wants to go to, right? Including me. Not, not you,

but a lot of people do. And so. We're gonna talk about that. Okay. So we're also in a couple weeks gonna have an episode talking about the enchantments.

We'll, we'll, we'll keep you. Yes. We'll, so we're, we'll string you along. There are, there are lots of larges in the enchantments, but we're gonna talk about that specific location later. Okay, Jennie, I heard there's Larges and Lakes in other places of Washington too. Well, there are. Oh, okay. Yes. Do we need to get that out to the Instagram crowd?

Yes. Okay. Yes. I think we need to, I think we should start a new Instagram account and we can do it together and we could call it. You know, there is blank in other places. I'm not really gonna do that because that's too much work. I like that. But it would be funny, there are lakes and other places, there are Ls in other places there, Washington.

Washington doesn't just have one lake called, I can't even mention that word. Right. Well, when I didn't mention it, when I said, enchantments, you didn't, I didn't name that lake. You didn't. You didn't. The lake. That must not be named. Right. Anyway, okay, so. What we're gonna talk about here is like absurd crowding on trails and maybe especially parking, and at these popular large hikes, which we'll name in a minute, and some of the specific extra challenges that we are dealing with on October 1st, 2025.

Right? They are, uh, the government shut down the wildfires in central Washington that are limiting access to some trail heads and also, and will continue for quite some time and will continue. And also, um. The Lake Ingles Trail, which is a really popular, large hike.

That's one of my favorites. It's a beautiful hike is closed right now because the labor mountain fire is way down. Which is doing some serious damage in that area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then kind of the area around Chelan, it's also dealing with the Sugarloaf fire. Anyway, um, that's providing some extra challenge and then like on top of all that, the parking lot is closed.

And there are no forest service workers right now, correct? They're on furlough now. I guess I should say that the parking lot was closed when I checked this morning, and I'm talking about several trail heads there along Highway 20. So like the cutthroat pass trailhead on the PCT and the rainy pass trailhead at Maple Pass, it's gonna be an absolute zoo.

Those are the ones that I know about. Okay, so in addition to the challenges that Craig and I have talked about other times, so. Um, in our fall episodes and in specifically large episodes, we've talked both about crowding and finding, finding easier, LCH hikes, finding less crowded large hikes. So we've talked about these topics before, but, but this, in this episode, I really wanted to share, like my personal dilemma and get your thoughts on it.

Craig and listeners, this, this is another one where, man, I'd really love to hear from you. How would you, how would you handle this situation? Okay. . So we are talking about the Cutthroat Pass trail, which if you are. Not a user of social media somehow it's one of my hundred classic hikes. It is. It's a wonderful hike.

It's a wonderful hike. So let's just start by saying it's a wonderful and popular hike for a reason. Yeah. Okay. Jen, you might, might not know this. So, when I, um, first came to the North Cascades. Hiking, you know, this is my third trip to Washington. I grew up, you know, growing up on the East coast, um, it was my very first hike really coming across Highway 20 or coming across some company and looking for a place to hike.

Um, so this is back in 1985, July of 1985. Did that hike middle of July 19 still again, how things have changed, how much snow had covered. Incredible. That's changed a lot. Yeah. Four mountain goats. I, I, I saw they went including two little kids. Oh. Um, it was, um, not crowded, but it was not quiet. It was actually a pretty popular hike in 1985.

Yeah. Yeah. Spoiler alert. It continues to be a popular, it's more popular now. 40 years more popular. Yes. Okay. So backing up a little bit, I think everyone knows that I really love Lurches and I always. Have, we've talked about it before. So I am one of those people that goes a little crazy for Ls and I try, I do not always achieve this, but it's always my goal to do one, old favorite LARCH hike and one new to me larch hike.

And someday, if I've done all the Larch hikes, ah, all of them, yeah, maybe I'll revisit that. But that doesn't always happen because sometimes I have to pivot my plan for. Various reasons. We are talking about high altitude hikes in October. After all, a number of times I've had to, pivot my plan because of parking.

So that's what we're gonna talk about today. So Maple Pass. Um. Which probably if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably familiar, another one, the hundred classics as well. Yeah, I mean, it's an, an incredible, it's, it's, it's an incredible hike. It's, it's one of those hikes we've talked about before as being like.

Extremely popular, but with good reason and super worthy. And, and it's, it's, it's a beautiful hike in July too, the wildflowers. It's, but October tends to bring out even more people. Yes. Because the Ls there are really remarkable in the Yeah. And the, it's a paved highway to get there. I mean, this is all contributes to its popularity.

Yes. Yeah. So I've done that hike many, many times. I mean, it's definitely one of my favorites in Washington. It, it really, I, I no longer do it on a weekend in early October, just because it's too much. You know, you have to get there at like six in the morning to get a parking spot. That means leaving at like two 30 or three.

And I'm all for an early start when necessary. But that's a, it's kind of pushy note for me anyway. But I do love, I do love that hike. But one of the ones that I've never done. Is Cutthroat Pass. You have not done that one. That's, and I've done that one several times. Mean I know because I love the snowy Lakes too, which is just beyond Yes.

And which is in my backpacking book. Yeah. Um, it's, it's great. It's on the Pacific Crest Trail. And what makes this trail, this hike, uh, one of the things that's so nice is because it's so well graded. Yeah. Because it was built, it's on the much later as A PCT. Right. It was created for horses and everything.

Yeah. So, um, for a longer hike, it's an easier hike. Um, yeah. Yeah. And, and just. As a pro tip for anyone ever overall in Washington, the Pacific Crest Trail is really well maintained on a good grade, yes, you're gonna have lots of climbs, but I don't know, it feels like. It always feels manageable. Yeah, very man.

It's very, very popular, uh, with a lot of my trail running friends too. Yeah. It's to go out there because of those grades. Yeah. Yes, yes. So anyway, so I've been wanting to do this hike for, I don't know, nine years probably. And every year I'm like, okay, this is gonna be my new one this year, every year. And I did it in 1985, not even living here.

What's going on? I know. It's just, it's tough. Too many Maple passage. Well, first of all, it's long, it's 10 miles round trip. That's for me, a long day. You know, we talked about it not being extremely steep, but it still has 2000 feet of elevation gains. So that's not nothing. I think 23 or 2,400.

Yeah, a little bit more. Yeah. But the last two times that I have tried to hike there , even getting there very, very early in the morning. There just wasn't anywhere to park and so I had to pivot to plan B. And one of my favorite plan BS, by the way, is Cutthroat Lake, which I've talked about in other podcasts.

Just back, back up for a minute, you some of our listen by what do you mean there's no place to park? You can park on the shoulder on Highway 20. Right. So address that. Yeah. Well, thank you for leading the witness, Craig. Okay, I'm gonna just share my thoughts on parking along the highway. Um, on Highway 20 in the rainy pass area, which includes the Maple Pass Trail Head, and it's right across the, the street from it, right across the street from each other.

And really the Blue Lake Trail head is really in that same, it's not too far. A couple miles away. Yeah, same area. And Bridge Creek is between them. The Bridge Creek doesn't get as crowded. Last year when I drove by. Going to Blue Lake where I got the last legal parking spot at seven morning, and that's a tiny parking spot for such a busy,

Anyway, so there were at seven 30 in the morning, cars parked on both sides of the highway. Mm-hmm. For a mile. Oh yeah, easily. So now I wanna make it really clear that this is an opinion and kind of an ethical belief and not, I'm really not judging people who choose to park along the highway.

I'm gonna explain why I choose not to do it, but, . I know everybody else is doing it and we should back up. And so why should, and that's up place's. It's not illegal. Right. So it's not, or it's not. If I, if I, should we review what the That's good point. Says on the website. That's point. Yeah, we should, because that's, that's a good point because people can say, well, as long as I'm doing it's not illegal and I'm doing what Well, so let's let, let me come back to this.

Okay. It's, it's technically not exactly illegal. Okay. Interesting. But we'll, we'll revisit it in a second . my husband Jay, who's been on the podcast before talking about search and rescue, um, and is very involved in that community. One of the things that's really a problem with this kind of parking is access for emergency, absolutely.

Vehicles, and whether that's being able to get into a trailhead for a search and rescue operation, or if it's an accident on the highway, there's nowhere to move vehicles over. There's no way to manage traffic. Sue. I am somebody who takes that really seriously, and I'm, I'm not saying that people who do park along the highway are not taking safety seriously.

I've chosen not to do that, and I'm gonna tell you why. That's probably the main reason is just for safety. I'm also gonna read what Okanagan, Wenatchee National Forest has on their website about parking on Highway 20 in this area. It also has a really nice.

Lovely statement about, on their website today about the government shutdown. Yeah. Okay. We'll come back to the shutdown in a minute. Right, and this is really important to time, what you're gonna talk about context. Yes. The context in which I'm reading this is that the, at the moment, in addition to the pressure there, there is no parking for either Cutthroat Pass or Maple Pass.

Now, maybe tomorrow it'll be different, but today there's not. The construction was supposed to be done a week ago, but it's not done. And so there is no parking lot. Legal. Parking, right? There is only parking along the highway. That's all that's built. Yeah. There's no parking to fish. Okay. Okay. So this is what Okanagan, Wenatchee National Forest says on their website.

Parking along State Route 20 is explicitly discouraged. And poses safety risks to both vehicles and pedestrians. Due to high rates of speed and limited suitable parking areas, improperly parked vehicles can pose a traffic hazard and block access for emergency services in case of an accident.

Warnings and citations have been issued in the past for improper parking along the highway,, if you've been here, then you can picture what I'm talking about. If you haven't been here.

Do a Google image search for this situation. That's pretty intense. Yeah several times I've driven by, and it's lined up for one, two miles, plus sides, the highway. And what it automatically does too, it slows the flow of traffic down. 'cause you're worried about people darting out in front.

You're on a major road with a 60 mile an hour speed limit 55. It is definitely hazardous also. Maple Pass is a hike that is about an eight mile loop, maybe slightly less than that. Yeah. 7.6. Yeah. With about 2300 feet of elevation gain. Cutthroat Pass is a 10 mile hike with 2000 feet of elevation gain.

So in either case, you're now talking about A, if you add two or four miles onto that hike and you're walking on the, you're walking along the side of the road, which is not safe. No. Right. That would make Cutthroat pass a 12 to 14 mile hike and Maple Pass a. Nine and a half to 11. And even if that mileage isn't an issue to you, it's like walking on the side of a busy road is a drag.

Its not. I try not to do that. Yes. So again, I think what we're saying about the road applies time, but I think what I'm saying is at least as of this morning, we are approaching. The first of two weekends where the pressure on this area is extreme and there isn't going to be any parking basically. So it was very, so in the discussion with the two people that I am, , planning to do this hike with on Friday.

We were talking about this where you know, like any October hiking, you gotta keep your plan flexible based on the weather, um, based on the smoke situation basically. That's for any hike in general. You should be always flexible. Of course, you always have a plan B. Yeah. Yeah. But one like this that you can get attached to you, I think it's extra important to be like, okay, so I was thinking about it, we're like.

How are we gonna handle this? And the reason that I wanted to talk about it is it was not easy, right? And eventually I came down on, after trying to figure out, is this parking lot gonna be open? Because we are going on a weekday, it's a Friday, so that isn't that much less crowded than a Saturday or Sunday, but they're teachers and they have sub.

So here's all the stuff, right? Plan this over and over again. Looking forward to it for a long time. Two people in our group are teachers who got subs. That's hard to do. That's a lot of work for them. And now we're like, we already know before getting there, we're not gonna be able to park or we think that's gonna happen because it doesn't seem likely that this parking lot is gonna be open by tomorrow.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'll record a like two minute episode this weekend if it turns out it was open. So we're like, what are we gonna do? Okay, so again, you always have to be flexible. We'll see what happens. I'll report back, I'll record a little bit before next week's episode or something, but we decided to start from Cutthroat Lake instead and.

That's a tough call because that's a much harder hike to more elevation, a little bit longer and a lot more elevation. Yes. You're starting a lot lower. Yes. Now I've been to Cutthroat Lake like a million times and it's a great backup because it has a bigger parking lot and you can park on that road too.

And you can park a the to wide. Yeah. West Service Road is wide, so there's like a couple of miles of. Not official parking in the parking lot, but where parking is totally fine and legal along the road. I've actually never seen that parking back up onto Highway 20. Never from there yet. I sure it's happened, but I've, I've never seen it may this weekend, so you never know.

Yeah. So we'll see what happens, but we decided partly so that we could get a little bit more sleep. And partly because we're like, we just don't wanna do this parking on the road thing that we're gonna do that. So you might be thinking, oh, well that's no big deal. Well, it's kind of a big deal because it's making for a longer and harder hike and it's possible, it won't be enough time for me to get to the goal, which is cutthroat pass.

It might be enough time, it might not. You know, we don't know for sure. So I think. It was just, I guess I just want to name it for all of you who might be considering a similar debate, or maybe you weren't, and now you are, and I'm sorry for wrecking your plants, but I just think it's so important to think about what you're doing right and, and there are gonna be hundreds, maybe thousands of people parked around along the side of the road, like I just said, I wasn't gonna do, if you're one of them, I want you to just know that.

Uh, I get it and I understand I'm choosing not to do that because of safety, but also because, especially during a government shutdown, especially when our public lands have been so decimated in the last year. I just don't feel good about making things harder for an area that's already stressed.

And here's a great segue. Um, and this is, I think this applies more to National Parks and Forest, . So I was just looking at my, my feeds this morning, uh, and I think it came from the Resistance Rangers, one of those groups that Yeah. Has been really active about. Countering what the Trump administration's doing.

Really good on social media. Follow and podcast, by the way. Right. For those of you looking for Very good. And these are groups? Yeah. And these are groups of, , of government workers, particularly in, in the park service. , Some of 'em have lost their job because of the, cuts. , Some of 'em are still active, but , them thing, regardless of politics they care about are public lands.

Yeah, very concerning. And right now, basically what they're calling. Is don't go to the national parks. And I'm very concerned right now. You mean during the shutdown? During the shutdown, yeah. And I'm very concerned right now because the last time this happened, unfortunately there are boneheads that are gonna take advantage of the situation.

Yeah. They're gonna bring their dogs to sensitive areas. They're gonna go bring their mountain bikes to areas where are not allowed. They're gonna camp where they're not supposed to be. You know, just knowing that's gonna happen. I don't even want to be around that. Um, yeah, because it, it, it will just infuriate me even more,

yeah. But. Of course, some of you, I'm already seeing this, say, Hey, listen, Romano, don't be so fatalistic. We're gonna go there to act as, as you know, , guards to protect these lands where we're gonna be picking up trash and it'll make power to you. That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm glad you can do this, but a lot of they're saying, you know, we shouldn't be going.

To these places right now because it's gonna be a disaster it's gonna be overflowing garbage and there's gonna be human waste. And again, dogs and places are not supposed to be all it happened. Yeah. And unfortunately there's a small percentage, maybe even larger than small that's gonna take advantage of this.

And it's really. It's really sad, because these are our lands and we should, you know, respect and, and, and probably, so that's a, that's an ethical dilemma right there. It is. That, that you should think about, should I be doing this? Or, you know, if you're thinking, oh, I can finally get into, I mean, I'd really, you know, have some deep, , it's tough reflections about, you know, what public lands mean to us as a nation and,

yeah. About caring for our lands as some selfish urge that we may have. Uh, I hope I'm wrong. I, I'm prepared to read all kinds of awful things that's gonna, that gonna happen, especially if this drags on. Yeah. So I'm worried, I'm worried about, I mean, there was just awful things that happened. Some of our national parks in the last shutdown.

Yeah. I think it was, it was one, two weeks. It went too. It was way too long. , I wish they would just gate the parks. I mean, obviously you can't keep people. Outta these. And some parts don't like North Cascades. You can't, you can't haves, right? You can't. So I'm a little worried. So think about there's, there's certainly other, there's alternatives.

Um, and again, again, ask yourself too, if you're like me and you go to these places as, um, you know, as a retreat from the craziness of the world. Why do I want to be around craziness? Yeah. Um, it's not gonna help relax me there's certainly ways we can get our dose of nature and, and exercise and everything.

Um, you know, that's not gonna be in, in, in a situation. It's gonna be really negative. So. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's hard when we were talking about, I was telling you that I wanted to talk about this. Because this is just last night that I was trying to figure out, what am I gonna do? You know, the, the state, I mean, yes, we're doing it for fun, but the stakes are kind of high.

It's not necessarily easy for people to get a day off. We're talking about a place that's three and a half hours away from where we live. That's a big commitment and. Requires reorganizing vehicles with other family members and pet care and childcare and all that kind of thing.

And I guess that's what made me feel like it was really important is even when we care a lot and the stakes are really high, the decisions still really matter, just like they do in any hike, as we've talked about before. I think this is a hard situation because I know Craig, that neither one of us.

Wanna discourage people from getting outside. Absolutely. No matter. Absolutely. You know, and we don't wanna contribute to problems. So what do we do? I don't have a great answer for that, for everyone. I know how I landed for myself in this particular situation. You know, we did consider some other things like going.

We might have gone to Lake Ingles instead, which is a place where all three of us have been before. If there wasn't a fire there, we didn't talk about this as a group, but I considered, okay, should we do like Grasshopper Pass or Tady Peak or something like that instead?

Ultimately that is too far for a day trip. For a day trip. Yeah. It's just too far. It's just too many hours from Winthrop, which is already five hours from, you know, so, and in this case, we just have a day. So, you know, it's great to have more time. In this case, we don't have more time. Life is happening for all three of us.

We also considered some other hikes along Highway two, like Blue Lake. Again, it was mostly me considering this Blue Lake is awesome. It's gonna, it's gonna be crazy busy. It, it is. Um, but it's also, I've done that one a lot in this exact same scenario, like. It's too far, too complicated to go these other places, you know, we talked about parking at Bridge Creek on the PCT, which is another hack.

'Cause that parking lot has been open and usually is not busy. That adds three miles onto the hike. So, so one of my best. Blue Lake experience is, this is interesting too. And again, this is about being creative. I was at a, a conference, a writer's conference in Winthrop, in first week in October. Mm.

And the last day we got out early and I'm driving home and, thinking I got a couple hours of daylight and it was gorgeous out. And, you know, I can, you know, if you evidence to depend, I, I'm, I'm, I mean, I can run up the trail, but a headlamp would work just as fine. I get, I, I got there with. About two hours of daylight left.

So the parking lot was pretty empty. Yeah. People, most people, the cars there, most people were leaving. They were coming down the trail. Yeah. I got up there. Early October, I went to the lake all alone. Aw. Uh, and as I was coming down, it's getting dusky. And it's funny, I, I run into a person I know who's coming up.

Of course, you know, he's coming up, he's got his headlamp, he is ready to take pictures and everything. So again, there's these creative things you can do too. Yeah. That I was able to have this experience that if I had been there. Five hours earlier, it would've just been a mob scene and I wouldn't have done it.

I would've just driven right by it. And then again, there are so many alternative hikes that people are not seeking out. You know, it's best to have those plans and change.

So again, another experiment I just had now, the park. The government shut down. So I'm not advising to do this, but I was, I just got by, I was in Southern Oregon. This was right before that. Just before that. And so the park was open. I was over in southern Oregon this week. Just, just got home a few days ago.

And went over to Cradle Lake. Wonderful. If you haven't been to Cradle Lake National Park, it's spectacular. It's, , I hadn't been there since the eighties. It was a long time. So I went, here's the interesting thing. I got up early, got there early on Friday, and , so a weekday, but I was there eight 30 on the trail.

I went up the watch. The Watchmen, which is one of the busiest hikes in there. Yeah. But I got there early. Same thing. I was all by myself. Yeah. Up there. Got down and I could see the people starting to come and then I hiked on along the rim trail. That doesn't get a lot of use. Beautiful. Then I move over to the other side to do Mount Scott, which is one of the harder hikes in the trail.

Yeah. And it was just a handful of us there. Great. I had this incredible experience on a Friday. It was not crowded. Alright, I wanna come back on Saturday. 'cause see it Saturday's gonna be busy. Figure. All right, I'll get up, get there early, do this hike. I wanna do, as I'm getting there, I pull up to the toll booth.

I'm like, there's nobody here. What's going on? No. Shut out. It's a fee free day. And I already figured something was up because lines of cars are kind of like, yeah. Oh, it is gonna be a zoo up there. Yeah. I don't want to be around that again. I don't enjoy that. Right. I, I like people, I don't mind people sharing.

But not crowds so did you leave the park? No. Didn, or what did you do? I didn't. So I did this hike called Crater Mountain and I'd read about it. There are no lake, there are no views of Crater Lake and one of the things that they talk about. The Park service actually specifically imagines solitude.

Yeah. It's a seven mile round trip hike. Not terribly long, but long enough to keep some of the people that just want that one mile view to the lake. Sure. Yep. And there's no lake view. And I get there and there's two cars in the parking lot, and that's all I saw all day. I met the, I met the four other people.

And we had the whole thing. Yeah, no, we never saw anybody else coming out. I get back to the parking lot, it's a mob scene because it's also a picnic area and everything, but none of those people are going up the trail. And I thought, you know, it's still gorgeous, sad. I got half a day. What am I gonna do?

Well, this gets even better. Everybody's up at the lake. I'm gonna do those wonderful nature trails that are nowhere near the lake. Again, park Service Nature Trails are one of the most underrated trail in the entire country. Greater Lake has this gorgeous one that's a DA accessible. I got there, I encountered three people on the trail.

Yeah, it was and, and beautiful. Again, one of the busy cars are ex zooming back and forth. Nobody's going on this trail. It was fantastic. Yeah. So again, I got 10 miles of hiking in that day. On a Saturday on a fee free day. Yeah. And it wasn't very few people I encountered. Yeah. There are ways to get creative.

I've done this last time when I've traveled, I travel places. I got my mind set on someplace else, and I get there. It's closed. The road's washed out. Yeah. Always have that backup plan. Yeah. I'm not gonna waste the day, throw the day away. Yeah. And sometimes I'll end up going this way. I didn't even consider maybe a local suggested, maybe I looked at it wasn't a treat.

And it ends up being an amazing experience. Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you shared that, Craig. 'cause I'm, I just was thinking about the East Side Trail in Mount Ray. Oh, wonderful. Trail Park. Yep. And how beautiful that is and how there's never anybody on it, ever get past it. Go over the patriarchs, it's you're on your own.

Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Um, but there's no views nope. Nothing. Um, it's all big trees, but it's still real pretty waterfalls and big trees. Yeah. Um, and it's pretty chill. There's not a ton of elevation gain in cross. No, no, no. Not at all. It's wonderful. And a lot of your national parks have these, and this is, I'm saying I've been, I mean, it's amazing.





Yeah, totally. And you know, coming back to the North Cascades again for a moment, I think, you know, if the road is closed because of a washout or a wildfire, that's disappointing, but the decision isn't as hard. Right. Like obviously you're not gonna go Right.

Right. Or if it had been pouring rain, we would've pivoted to a hike that's more enjoyable in the rain. That would've been easy. Yep. What was hard about this is like everything about it lined up perfectly and then the parking lot is closed. Like, are you kidding me? So, you know, so here you may not, this is so, here's an alternative for you too.

You know that the east. Creek trail, which is on the way the bridge has, they finally put a new bridge in there. Hmm. This is a trail I've been raving about. It's amazing. It's about an eight mile round trip to an old gold mine in there. Cool. There are Ls in there. It is pretty, it hasn't, um, A lot of people don't realize on a weekend, I'm thinking, you know, you may get up there and say it's way before you get up to the pass.

Let's pull in over here and check this trail out. Yeah. So that new bridge, that was the big deterrent before you ha It was a crazy crossing. Yeah. To get over there on this log road. So can you say where that is? I think it's milepost 1 58 somewhere. So when you're going up the highway 20, you make the curve around Canyon Creek and you start climbing.

This is past Ross Lake, it's a East Creek. So it's coming from the west. Coming from the west, yeah. Okay. East Creek Trail. Okay. Trail. It's a big parking lot. It's huge. Yep. So you've got a pretty picture of the, but the bridge has been washed out for 15 years. Mm-hmm. So people wouldn't go. I hiked in there with my buddy about a couple years ago.

We did a one-way over boulder, came down off a canyon and it was amazing how much of that trail was still in good shape without all the maintenance and everything. Cool. So there's been a couple of people that have been trying to keep it open, some bootleg maintenance people up there. So I think finally now people are gonna start.

Visiting this area, there's a whole network of trails that in essence has been abandoned, which is a shame because you're off a pave road. All that and all these other areas are getting crowded. This is a great place to pick up some of the slack. I'm thinking on a weekend, me, who would not go anywhere near Cutthroat Pass in Maple on a weekend October.

Would I do East Creek on a weekend in October? Yes. Mm. So there's cool. There's a possible, again, if you need to change the plans for the third time, that's an alternative. Sweet. Thanks. It's in my North Cascade book if you want some info on that. Yeah. Awesome. I was thinking too about Easy Pass, which is another one that I thought about.

You know, honestly what I did is I got out my map of the area and I was like, you know, 'cause we've talked about before, that's that, that's a nice psych knowing, knowing kind of where they are. And what kind of terrain, which we've talked about in other episodes. A year ago we talked about that, um, that can also help you.

And so I was trying to do that for inspiration, which is when I was like, how much further is it really if we start at the lake? And we ended up with that idea. But I, you know, the thing about Easy Pass, it's not easy. No, it's not. It's, it's, it's a nice hike. It's steep. Yeah, it's steep and then it has those.

Kinda rocky tele slopes. Yeah. Yeah. And I, to honest, to be honest with you, I just was not feeling that as, that just sounded like something I, it's not as GED as, as cutthroat. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Well, um, listeners, please sound off on this way, this I'D to know. What would you do? And I won't judge you.

This is, this is a tough call. If you'd make a different decision than me, tell me, or tell us. Hit the, the text button and tell us, and, what would you do instead and why, or have you been in a situation and you, and know, I'm curious too. We're talking about, I've made a very strong opinion on how I feel about the, the shutdown area, but, do you have a different view on Yeah.

Are you gonna be in the parks wide shutdown down? Yeah. And if so, tell us about it. Why? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We would love to hear. Yeah. I think also. I was just thinking about something else, Craig, that we were talking about, which is, you know, these decisions, this can happen in the moment, right? If I hadn't been paying as much attention, I could have just arrived and found the parking lot closed.

Right. Right. Yes. I think, you know, Washington Trails Association always advises people to have a plan B. Right. And I think I, I do not always have a plan BII do not always. This is also how people get into trouble too with weather. 'cause they don't have a plan B I'm gonna do this mountain on this day.

That's right. And, and, and even though the signs are saying not good and that's how people get into trouble also. Yeah. Yeah. So I think this is really about more than, well this current situation we have right now with fires and a shutdown and construction and crowds and like all these things collaborating to make this.

Particular situation, extra hard.



You know, so there's so many ways or, or maybe, you know, go for that weekend somewhere else. You know, or over into Eastern Washington, there's some great, the Blue Mountain. Maybe this is the time you discover the Blue Mountains. Yep. You know, I am really hoping, and again, I guess we'll see what happens.

Jay and I are hoping to go. Visit some, parts of Northeast Washington. I love that area. Oh, the Kettle River range, the, yeah.

And, but that's another, you know, like I said, that wouldn't have helped me in this particular dilemma for Friday. But that is another thing too, to be like, Hey, can I plan? Two or three days around. Yeah, great. You know, in a couple weeks, those western larges you can get to places that are further away.

And like I said, in this particular situation, that wasn't an option. Um, and if you live in Spokane, you don't have this dilemma. Okay. You can just head up to solve Lake. Or up to the Panhandle of Idaho. I mean, there's some wonderful quieter alternatives out there. Yeah. Yep.

Definitely. I think the last thing I wanted to just say about this is that. Regardless of the specifics, always thinking about the decisions you're making in the moment, not just ahead of time. You know, is it getting dark? Is the weather changing? Is this Trailhead situation not a good situation?

Is there not safe parking?



Alright everybody, see you next week. 

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

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Craig Romano

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