Doing a 100 Mile Trail Run for the First time at Age 64

Jennie interviews Craig about his experience this summer doing a 100 mile ultra trail run for the first time at age 64 - why he did it, how he prepared, and his advice for anyone wanting to take on a new challenge in midlife or later in life. 

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive.

 

Hey everyone. Before we jump into this episode, we have a listener question and Craig and I discussed it, but we forgot to record it. So Brian, thank you so much for your question about water filters. So Craig says that he uses a Caden squeeze filter and I use a Steri pen, which is a uv. Um. It's not a filter, but it kills bacteria in the water, and then I take iodine as backup.

So thanks so much, Brian. Thanks for your question. All right. Here's the rest of the episode.

Hey Craig, how are you doing? Hey, 

Jen. You know, I'm, I'm doing pretty well, um, considering the world. Uh, I've been really busy, um, but I'm feeling things are pretty good. How about you? 

Good. Um, you know, so much has changed since the last time we sat down and like recorded a bunch of.

Podcasts. Like I moved, 

I know we're in a new studio right now. I know, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. 

Um, and yeah, was doing a lot of tours and you've been all over the place doing races. Oh, it's been crazy. Yeah. Searching books and yeah. So that's awesome. Lots 

of good hikes, lots of good trails, lots of good, you know, new places.

Yeah. Yeah. 

So today, um, listeners. One of the things that Craig did this summer was ran his first a hundred mile race. 

Yeah. 100 mile. Just, just a little race. Congratulations. Thank you, Craig. 

That is a, a really big deal and I know that you trained and prepared for this for a really long time. So today, um, listeners, I'm just gonna interview Craig about that experience and if you like me.

Are like, there is no way I'm gonna ever run a hundred miles, which I'm not, um, or at least I'm not planning to. You started in your sixties, right? Well, you started this year running a hundred miles. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe, maybe when. I'm a few years older, I'll change my mind. But 

you never, I didn't start ultra running till I was almost 50 and, um, well, 

I thought you started it way later than that.

No, well, I 

did. I I, I'm kind of a, I'm a born again ultra runner. Yes. So, um, when I was 49 and I was writing for a running magazine, all the rage was the White River 50 mile up in Mount Rainier. And I remember reading the art, and this is when Scott Jurich, who ended up winning Western State, I forget how many times, I mean, he was.

A God to the running community. Yeah. He's a local, he was a local boy at the time, and I got inspired and I said, you know, you know, I've been running marathons, but never I wanted, I wanna take a shot at that. And I decided to run 50 for my 50th birthday. Mm-hmm. Made it a fundraiser for the Washington Trails Association.

Committed myself. I went public with it and said, all right, I've just committed myself now I can't back out of it. And, um. I trade hard. Uh, I ran, I think four 50 K races, up to that and did that race. I made it, it, it was an incredible experience and I remember people coming up to me and so, Craig, what's next?

You're gonna do the a hundred? You? I'm like, you're out of your fricking mind. I'm done. Okay. And I thought, this is it. No more. You know? I thought, well, one shot deal, one and done. Uh, and so, you know, life gets in the way. I was. I, you know, I just started writing with Mountaineers books, you know, a lot of stuff.

I mean, things got really busy and I maybe run a 50 k. Occasionally, and it was usually like on a rail trail. So the thought of me doing anything, no. But then what's interesting, I have restless syndrome, just restless period. And, and I liked it being challenged. And so three things kind of came together five years ago or four years ago, something like that.

Over four or five years. The, the pandemic. Yeah. You know, changed everything and had us reassessing everything. Yeah. But while the pandemic was happening, I also developed an autoimmune. Disorder. PMR, polymyalgia, polymyalgia rheumatica. And it affected, um, my range of motion. I was in pain, all that. And then, I turned 60 and it was like a big awakening.

'cause 40, 30, 40, 50 just didn't seem to be, all of a sudden I realized. Holy cow. There really isn't that much time left, you know? , 'Cause I've always lived, like every day is my last day, but all of a sudden I realized it may very well be my last day coming up. And after having this awful conditions with PMR and going onto onto prednisone, I felt really good again and started running.

Mm-hmm. And I really realized I've been taking my health for granted and I became more afraid of. The prednisone, the effects it can have. So, uh, I overhauled my diet. I, uh, I did a lot and, and I just went into hyperdrive, into my running because I wanted to put this, my condition into remission. So at the same time, a friend of mine, Peter, you're out there.

Thank you, Peter. He, he said, you know, I've always wanted to do the Timberline Trail in, in Oregon one day. It's 41 miles, 10,000 feet of elevation gain. At first I thought, oh God, it sounds great. There's no way. But the more I thought about it, I thought, you know, why not? Go for it. 

Right. And that's something that you're gonna have to run be just because of time.

Yeah. Right. Like if you just walk 41 miles, you 

can, you can walk it if you start. Matter of fact, the first time I did it, so you already seen me through the first time I did it. . Did meet a walker, uh, you know, started much earlier and everything. 'cause if you're going, 'cause lots of times in trail running, basically it's a fast hike.

Yeah. You're doing a lot of walking. Right. So I took him up on it and, and um, I finished it in 15 hours and, uh, it was an amazing experience. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I cannot believe I just did that. And all of a sudden they just got me thinking, you know, I still have. Have something in me. Yeah. And time is running out and I just started discovering this love for ultra running.

It's part of, I love the challenge, um, seeing what my body's capable of doing. Yep. What my mind is capable of doing. I think a lot of people don't realize if you're not an ultra runner, half of it is, is mental. It's incredible. And so I decided at that point, you know, for my 62nd birthday, I'm gonna run my first a hundred k.

62. For 62. Hmm. And I ended up doing that, so, so 

listeners, just, just to make sure no one's getting lost here. We're mixing up between miles and kilometers. So what we're talking about right now. Is a hundred K. Which is 62 miles. 62 miles. A lot shorter. Which was your age when you did it? It was my age. Yeah.

Okay. I thought just like I did the 50 for 50, just making sure we're all keeping up. 

Right. Just, I did the 50 for 50, so I'll do 62 for 62 and I did that the kaka, um, down in the mountains outside of San Diego. Beautiful course. It was incredible, incredible experience. Great. Went into the nineties, so I had to learn how to adjust into the heat that's really hot.

One third of the field dropped. I was stuffing ice in my head and everything. Um, 

stop. What are you talking about? Like in your, 

in my hat. Oh, okay. Around my neck. I wore ice. I mean, I was the ice, the iceman of, you know, cometh, you know, uh, but it was, um, but I did everything. Right to make it through this, I adjusted my pace.

But the thing is, mind you, a lot of these races have cutoffs, so you have to keep going. And I finished the race with an hour and 15 minutes to spare. I was stoked. I couldn't believe I did this. And so all my friends joked and I knew it was inevitable. The a hundred K is the gateway drug to the a hundred miler.

Oh no. And all of a sudden I can still remember, it might be never to my mom get into the a hundred K. My mom, who just thinks I'm absolutely nuts, couldn't believe I did 50 on 50 after I did the a hundred k. She's like, I'm afraid to ask what's next. Right. So it was inevitable. I 

think we can kind of all relate to your mom right now.

Yes. And and the trouble is I have a lot I've surrounded myself with. Kooky people who run a hundred mile races and have done many of them. And I've always thought they're nuts. And I joined. 

So they, they've enabled you to go to this 

store. They're total enablers. And I mentioned it and instead of talking me out, they encouraged me.

You know, it's kind so they, you gotta do this. Yeah. And I also realized at 62, that's it. I started thinking it's now or never. I don't like many things in my life, and this includes being a writer. I always would project myself into the future. What would 85-year-old Craig be thinking right now? And the last thing 85-year-old Craig wants to do is have regrets.

Mm. And don't wanna think. I wonder if I could have done that, but I never tried. Because it's better to wonder and try to not be able to do it than to not do it at all. Mm-hmm. Or try so. I decided this early this year, even though I was kind of already mentally, I committed myself to the a hundred miler.

Publicly announced it, 

and we talked about it on the pod, we talked about on the pod. We talked about goals for. Yep. This year and 

I decided it's gonna be at Mount Hood because Mount Hood is where it all started. Yeah. For me, kind of my born again running. Mm-hmm. , Ultra running and, the group, Daybreak running, out of Hillsborough, Oregon. I've run three of the races. Great organization. So I decided that's, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do this race. And like a lot of things though, I could have picked a lot easier. A hundred miler. It was, 17,400 feet of Elevation Game.

Again, I liked the challenge, but what I loved about it too is a Western state qualifier. Mm. And Western State is the Boston Marathon of Ultra running. It's the oldest a hundred mile race in the country. It's goes from Lake Tahoe to Auburn outside of Sacramento, which meant it was gonna be a big field.

From all over the country, 

and it was yet another gateway event. 

And so we'll get to that later. Yeah. I'll jump ahead. Yes. I, I did qualify. Yes. I am gonna try to get on the lottery. , I thrive on the energy. , It's funny because my pacer, one of my pacers, Wendy, she's the exact opposite of me.

She likes small races. She doesn't like to be around. I'm the exact opposite. Mm-hmm. I wanna be in a big race. Lots of people, lots of energy. I'm talking to everybody. And so there's 250 people in this run, which is a lot for a hundred mile run. 

Mm-hmm. 

And, uh, I did it and I finished with 22 minutes to spare.

I was the second to last finisher, but that's amazing. There was 50 something people that did not finish and I was the third oldest to finish. , I'm 64 and did my first a hundred mile and, I feel great. And after I finish the race, basically. I was just tired. I mean, knees, things. I was very tired.

Like a week later your, when I saw you were like real tired. But I tell you, it was great. I was, I got some of the best sleep in my life. So if you're having insomnia problems, I suggest running a hundred mile race . but the experience, I can't, it's so hard to explain this in probably mountain climbers and people do any kind of extreme, probably say unless you're, it's really hard to explain it if you've never done it.

And, and same thing, I could not, I used to see people doing this year, I'm like, this is nuts. How can that possibly, but. Your mind, just, you're in a different, I, I was floating, I'm still floating over it. I still can't believe I did this. So much of it is mental. , And I think that's, to me, that's a big challenge, just overcoming, just really meeting those challenges.

But I can't, I, I don't wanna deemphasize because here's what happens. That's been happening a lot lately. The ultra ultra running's booming right now. It's, it's amazing how much heard, heard. It's become so popular and I just did an article about it and I have the statistics, but it's crazy how many people are, are, are, are joining and young people.

It's amazing. And when I first started ultra running years ago, I mean a lot of the field was. Was older, um, you know, thirties, forties, fifties, because it, it was a lot of marathoners gonna the next step because you build up. Mm-hmm. Now it is not uncommon. Every ultra race I've been in, and I, I did, I've, this, this is what's crazy about this last year, I've done more ultra racing in this last year than did any other year.

I ran four 50 mile runs. I couldn't do this stuff when I was younger, but here's what's happening is that I'm meeting first timers in their twenties. Yeah. Lining up. I think this is great. However, it's great. If you're trained, because in almost every one of these cases, I've, they haven't been successful because you know, when you're younger, yes, you can get away with a lot of stuff.

Sure. 

You can wing a marathon. If you're somewhat fit, you can walk to the end or you can't wing a 100 mile run. Mm-hmm. You know, there's just so much. So I, I, I've watched a lot of the, the, the casualties, the people drop out are just people that were under prepared or are not prepared at all. So I can't.

Underemphasize or over, I'm sorry, I can't overemphasize under, I can, I can't overemphasize. You've got to be trained for this because Yeah. Um, uh, just physically it's gonna take you, you, you know, your body needs to really, really, um, you need to build up that, that tolerance. You need to, to, to see what it feels like , to be on your feet for that long.

Um, yeah. You also need to realize the issues that are gonna come up and how you're gonna address 'em. How are you going to eat all these things? What you gonna do? And, and then mentally when, didn't happen to me, at no point in the race did I want to quit. But I've heard this very, very often. People run, they get to a point, mile 80 or somewhere, they're just like, I can't do this anymore.

You know, I, I just can't do this anymore. Yeah. And, and you know, you, I didn't go through that, but I, I, I just started worrying like, am I gonna make it on time? And that's the thing. And you, and you have to keep your cool and, and have your plan because how much 

was the time? How much time had 34 

hours to do this?

So 18 minutes out of 34 hours is not. A lot. 

No, right. I finished with 22. Me? Yeah. Or 22. Yeah, 22, which is not a lot. And yeah, and, and, but every time I kept checking, making sure because there were points, you know, which is also important, important in a race too , to know the course and everything.

That was a quick, quick first 50, but that second 50 was even harder. And we have a joke in the ultra community too, , you know, marathon is 26.2 miles. A 50 mile run is two marathons, a hundred mile run is three fifties. You know, I mean, it's, it's just not proportional.

It's also important too, if you decide, uh, well, first of all, so if, if you're thinking about doing 100 and, and, and please do. I mean, it's, it's an amazing thing to shoot for. Right? Um, but again, start. Just, you know, you can't just go from zero to 100. Yeah. So make sure you're putting, if you're, if you're a regular runner right now, and you can do, you know, marathons, whatever, do, do, run your first 50 k, do that.

And there's a lot of great ones here in Washington. Not as, you know, you can pick ones on the rail trails on, like the Palesa Cascade Trail. We have one up where I live in Mount Vernon, um, on the Cascade Trail. Really great. You know, start building up that distance. So put your, put your distance and put time and, and then make sure, again, you're doing, you're doing the proper training with gear.

Make sure you know, um, you don't wanna find out something in a race, what doesn't work. Your clothing, your socks, your shoes. Yeah. , I just lather my body with, body glide. This stuff is amazing. So I had, you know, very little chafing, actually none in the last race. That's really important.

'cause that can take you out. Yeah. And the other thing, food, and one of the thing you'll hear a lot of people, one of the biggest debilitating in ultra running is your stomach issues. And I did have gastrointestinal issues and I almost threw up five times about, because your body, it just, it's hard to put anything down.

Yeah. And at the end I'm just taking liquid and I hate that stuff. But, I'm thinking I'm looking at 200 calories an hour. Minimum when I'm doing this. Yeah. You've, you've gotta fuel, which also I, not 

starting, I mean, I know that in those kinds of events that just your body's calorie needs can exceed what your digestive system can really cope with.

Can't. 

Yeah. You just can't and your body's gonna reject. And, and, matter of fact, in the, the Golden Ultra I just did last month in BC I started cramping. And even I've been taking all the electrolytes and then I started, I tried to. Put a lot of tablets in there and then everything came up and I'm throwing up on the top of the mountain and everything I, I.

I, I, I got through it. I survived. Yeah, it, it took an hour off my time, but I, I had enough, but I was able to make it through it. But this is all part of the, you've gotta worry, you know, pushing your body through this, it, it, it's hard. It's hard on the body. But also mentally, this is where you gotta be strong mentally.

'cause you may just feel like I'm done. I'm gonna give up, , where you know. You might just need to, to rest, recover, do little things on this. But the other thing too is , just things, you know, again, go out since I ran through the night, which is magical to come out there and watching the sunrise and yeah, it sounds, that part sounds really cool.

I think Sasquatch was out there one time, both Wendy, my pacer, and I heard some really crazy grunts and everything. We we're nowhere near a campground, so we don't know what's going on out there. Talked to runners who have encountered cougars and other things in the at night. Oh man. But this is, I had my pacer, and she's wonderful.

Which also to emphasize too, I could not have done this race without. A support team. Yeah. And my, my wife and son were out there for me and that was my son ran the last half mile in with me, which, you know, you know, almost brought a tear to my eye. Of course. And you know, Wendy ran 30. We friend my friend Wendy, who's a very experienced a hundred mile or ran 34 miles with me through the night.

And then my friend Grady moved on a lot of ultra runs together, training, brought me in to the finish and made sure, you know, I was there and KK cool. And these people, they kept make sure I was eating, make sure I was drinking, and make sure I was. Straight. I didn't have to worry about missing a turn because they were on it.

Yeah. And, and so you bring, that's something I was gonna ask you is to explain a little bit about what a Pacer's goal is. And it sounds like they're sort of your brain once your brain starts shutting down. They certainly can be. They're there to, they 

they are. And so in most longer races, usually 50 miles and up, you're allowed a pacer.

At a certain point, the race director will say, you know, from this mile on you're allowed a pacer. And my a hundred K, same thing. I had a great, a great pacer who, who took care of me and everything and. They're going to Yeah, exactly. Guide you through your mind's gonna, you're gonna be tired at night, they're gonna help.

And the thing, what Wendy was great too, is like, I don't want to eat. 'cause I, I just, nothing looks good, but she's making sure that I'm eating because if I don't, I'm gonna run outta gas and you're done. So 

they gotta be a little bossy. They 

gotta be bossy. They tough love. Tough love. Exactly. Both Greg, 

this is going down.

Yeah, exactly. And, and I take it, and that's the thing, it's like, yeah, you've gotta make sure it's like, it's kind of like your little kid. It's like, gotta take your medicine, you know, open up, um. So good. The other thing was amazing about Grady in particular, who was, who was uh, crewing me a lot. I'd get into an aid station, he'd have everything ready for me, so he knew at a certain point, I'm gonna need my poles, I'm gonna need my headlamp.

You know how much time they saving because you can eat up so much time. Yeah. At those it's like repacking. Yeah. I just eat, I, I, I made sure they made sure they grab my food, they knew what I want and that it's only spend a few minutes and start walking. Lots of times I grab the food and start walking with, because people can spend an hour, two hours at community at these and then.

You're gonna, you're not gonna make it in time because mm-hmm. The clock is constantly running. Doesn't, it doesn't stop when you get into an aid station. Yeah. So there's so much, again, I have to emphasize the mental aspect of it, the discipline. Yeah. , And I love that. I, I, you know, I, it's, it, I just love that it know, to me it's maybe sometimes there's just so much chaos in the world that I love the discipline, but here's the magical thing again, people say, I still don't get it.

Why you can do this. This is the most magical thing about it in all of our. Our lives and everything, and even when I'm out hiking with friends and everything, I'm out hiking with friends. You know, you're talking, you're missing. It is the only time in my life I am totally 100% focused on the moment. Mm, no other time in my life am I that because I'm constantly thinking about everything, about, you know, every, everything I'm eating, drinking around, everything in my body.

What does it feel? Does that, you know, oh, that doesn't, what's going on here? Or any other time you're distracted, you're, you're, you're constantly, especially people in this age of gadgets, so I did a hundred miles, no music. You know, you're allowed, I mean, I'm tuned around. Yeah. And also I'm there for the experience.

I'm talking to my fellow runners. Yeah. I ran with this woman for 20 miles and, and she finally comes to the end. She says, I never talk and run with people. You threw it out of me. And we, it was great. We had a great, great, and she was a year younger than me, you know, 63 years old, had run. Like 2,500 mile runs.

Wow. So she's an inspiration to me. Yeah. No kidding. And the other thing too, I run with younger people. Those last 60 KI just did up in, uh, bc I finished with a 24-year-old. And I love running with younger people. And the thing is, I, I feel I. I get to all, you know, I'm, I had kind of this role now I feel in my writing about it as a 64-year-old ultra runner.

I'm, lots of times I'm the oldest person or pretty close to the oldest person out there, and I'm trying to inspire, um, people my age young, you know, young boomers or, or more, 'cause I, there was a 71-year-old that passed me, you know, at, at at hood hundred that. Life doesn't end right now and, and then perhaps there's challenges.

I'm doing stuff in my sixties I never could do in my twenties and thirties. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's part, and the other role, younger people, I'm sitting there going, you know, you're in your twenties, you're in your thirties, doesn't have to end. You can keep living this life. Yeah. And a lot of them come from families where their parents, you know, have kind of given up and, and it's a see some like, guys, you're old enough to be my dad or whatever, and you're doing this kind of stuff.

So again, make those lifetime choices right now to keep doing this. You know, if, if this brings you joy. 

Yeah. So 

that's kind of my new role in this writing and, and nothing I, I thought about consciously, I just did this because I wanna do it, but all of a sudden I realize now what I'm projecting Yeah.

As the old guy out there running. Yeah. You know, so, 

because you're inspirational. 

Yeah. And per and per inspirational too when you're out there. Right. 

So, Craig, as I'm listening to you talk about this and. And, you know, we also got to talk about it a little bit over the summer, right? Yeah. When I saw you right after you did.

That's right. You 

did? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, not right after I was still walking. Yeah, yeah. A weeks 

later we were mostly walking normally. , I, I'm thinking about how, you know, for people like me who, who don't get ultra running, I mean, honestly, um, like I get it for you, but I like can't imagine doing that.

But I mean, thinking about what you're saying and thinking about how a lot of it applies to sort of any kind of big goal. Yeah. , Bingo. I'm thinking about things like the first time that I climbed Mount St. Helens, which I've done twice. Nice. Um, which I would highly recommend for a big. You know, that's a big deal for me.

It is a big deal. That's a big tough climb. Yeah, it is a tough 

climb. 

Uh, but it's not technical. Right. You know, so you don't, you don't need skills with ropes and, and that kind of thing. You shouldn't, if you do, you're, you're probably coming up the 

backside of the mountain. 

But, you know, it's tough. I trained for it for many months.

I attempted it twice before I made it to the top, due to things like. One time it was weather, like it was a complete fog, and we're like, we're gonna get to the top and just walk right over the edge. You don't wanna do that. This is not good. And also we kind of, um, when you're climbing, for those of you who haven't done it, when you're climbing Mount St.

Helen's, when you're on. Kind of the boulder field, which is the bulk of the time. There are like these wooden poles that sort of, and so you just go to the next pole. It's not exactly a trail. And we kind of decided if we get to the point where we can't see the next pole, we're done.

Right. Right. And that was the thing we decided anyway, there was another time I didn't have enough water, whatever. So I'm thinking about whatever the goal is for any individual hiker or runner that is really challenging that they're gonna have to work at for a long time. There's a lot that you've talked about that applies to that.

Yes. Like one of those things is training. And of course the physical training is important. You know, you need to condition your heart and your lungs and your muscles too. Be able to do that safely. So it's a huge deal. But, what I've been struck by every time you've talked about ultra running, and I'm just thinking about other times we've talked about it this year when we got together and you'd finished a 50 or something like that, just talking about those things that aren't related to your physical conditioning, like decision making and gear.

And like I remember you talking about like one of those runs that you did in Easter, Washington, that even though it's very, very, very hot, it got very cold. Oh, during the night, oh, we had sideways 

rain. And you were talking about 

the decision to change shirts. Right. And And I was just thinking about how.

You know, changing shirts might, it might save your life or be the difference between whether you can finish or not. Absolutely. And that's what the context, you were sharing that with me. Yeah. And this was like more, I think this was like six months ago. It was in March. Yeah. But you were, yeah, you were saying.

That there were people who couldn't finish just because they didn't have like a rain jacket, right. Or something to, to manage the cold, wet weather and, and everything. And food. You know what, and I'm thinking about Mount St. Helens, that was true for that too. Like, yeah, there's like, okay, can I do a tough long climb in a reasonable amount of time?

And I'm slow. So that reasonable amount of time is important. 

But you know, that's the thing in ultra running, this is what I love about ultra running. You know, I was pretty competitive Roadrunner when I was younger. Yeah. I ran Boston when I was 29. I usually finish in the top 10%. And as I got older I realized my speed's gone.

That's part of being old. Right. , One of the things I love about ultra running and so many of my older, uh, friends and colleagues who have been running, I've been running for over 40 years, who are still running. A lot of us have gone into the ultra scene because now it's about endurance. 

Yeah. And it's mental.

And it's mental 

and speed. And this is a great equalizer here too. You know, you, you're out with these sleek, you know, marathoners and everything, the ultra running people come in all different types of body sizes and shapes, everything. Yeah. And you'll be surprised. You look at somebody and like, wow.

Because a lot of it, again, it's that endurance. Yeah. And, and, and, and again, and I've told you, I, I chose from my first a hundred k my, and my 50 mile a hundred. Ones that had tough, tight cutoffs. You don't have to go that route. I, I have a friend who's done a hundred mile. She's not into that kind of stuff, so she's just doing flat loops where, you know, she has, um, support.

She loves it. She's actually going for her first 200 miler now. I mean, yeah. And there's a group outta Texas, which is really, really interesting. They're, uh, they, they're an ultra runner and their whole thing is about being inclusive. They're very open. This is Texas. Mind you. So, you know, dispel those stereotypes.

Yeah. Um, they, you know, the LGB, you know, DQ community? Yeah. Older runners to see where basically they're like, we're out here as long as you wanna be. If this is gonna take you, that's very cool. You know, you wanna finish your first a hundred mile a hundred K, four days we're here. Exactly. I think it is something like crazy.

Four days. So again, you know, find that works for you. There are these, these events that you can do this. And the same thing as you're saying Jennie too, it doesn't have to be running. Are you in your sixties or you feel like you're not? Totally. Do you ever wanna do the PCT or parts of the PCT or the at whatever.

Just start, start. Yeah. Get that first. The number one thing is the mind first. Yeah. Make that commitment and do what you need to do to get there. Yeah. And, and this is again, this is what I'm trying to teach my, my, my young son about things too. Nothing comes easy. You have to work for things and plan everything, but the rewards are incredible.

Yeah. I'm not a super athlete. I wasn't born, man. I'm just, you're 

a little bit of a super, 

well, I work damn hard to get here, but it's, but it's not, but I could very easily not be, you know, of course. I know what you mean, but No, I know, but I think people sometimes think like you're just gifted or, and, and there truly are.

People like the Scott Rks and the, and the Achill and Jne. They, they're just, they're, they're not human. They're amazing. And to watch them, it's just incredible for 

people who win the a hundred meter dashing. Yeah. These people 

who ran this race that I did in 17 hours instead of their. Most of us are not there.

Yeah. And we'll never be there. But doesn't mean we can't participate in these events. Yeah. And get the same kind of satisfaction. But here's the other thing, here's the other beauty about what I love about the ultra running community. Again, if any of you're out there questioning this, the marathons, everyone's sizing you up.

I, when I was road route, I'll never forget one road race I was doing where one of my competitors came right up at me, stared down at my bib to see what age group I was, realized that I was in the same, and sped up to beat me by three seconds. That doesn't exist in the ultra running community. Yeah. So I was staying in Mount in, um, government Meadows up at Mount Hood in the Best Western up there.

Uh, as about half of the people in that hotel were at this race, right? Uh, the next morning with everyone 

just 

hobbling the next morning, you know, everyone has the same shuffle. Looked like Night of the Living Dead, right? We're all sitting, but here's, and they're all wearing the like Yeah, they're all wearing the new sweatshirts and, yeah.

Yeah. But here's the great thing. We'd all look at each other and all different backgrounds and ages. Everyone would just give the smile the. Thumbs up. You did it. Yeah. Nobody asked how long it took. 

Yeah. 

Realize you did it. That's. That's all that happens. Stuff. It didn't matter if you did 33 hours or 18 hours, you did it.

Yeah. And that to me is an amazing comradery. That's really beautiful. And that's what I love about, I find that the trail running community is very non-judgment and it's really, you really get, there's some characters out there too. This last event I just ran in Canada, ran with a guy in a kilt. I ran with this big, burly dude who had pony tail.

I mean, double ponytail. People are just being themselves out there. That's awesome. And, and, and again, nobody's asking, this was an interesting event. We all sat and had dinner. It was a three day ultra. We all did three crazy events together. We sat together, had dinner and everything. And nobody's asking you your time.

It's just like you made it through the day or you're still here. You're, and at the end, we all raised a beer together like you did it. Yeah. That's what I love about the community. Yeah. Yeah. 

There's one other thing I wanna ask you about, Craig. And I know this is kind of a tough question because this isn't how it worked out.

But I remember before you did this race, you said, you know, it's possible I won't be able to finish. And I know in the last year we've had several conversations like that where you talked about races that you finished and other people didn't because of something extremely random. And maybe it was in their control, maybe it wasn't.

And so I. I would love to know how you, so you did finish, which is amazing, right? Yeah, 

yeah. 

How, like at what point were you sure you were gonna finish?

That's a great question. 

I mean, and, and also I'm just wondering how you, because one things I really, one of the things I really respect about you as a fellow outdoors person.

Is that you believe in the power of making good decisions, and I have every confidence that, as hard as that would've been if you had needed to not finish for some reason, that you wouldn't have because your life, your health, your family is more important to you than a goal. But also it's really hard to face letting go of a goal.

So I would love to know good points. How, how did you mentally prepare yourself for that possibility? While you were also pushing yourself to do it, and then what was, what was that like throughout the that That's a great race. That's a 

great point. You know, and so again, for the record, and I guess I'm very, very fortunate here in all the races I've done, I've never, D Nfd did not finish.

Mm-hmm. I've had and, and I realize it's only a matter of time. It's just like the classic, you know, you hear a Babe Ruth had, you know, or Hank Aaron had how many home runs, but how many times they strike out as well. Right, right. You gotta, and baseball's 

a good example, right, of like, nobody, even, nobody even bats 500 really.

Right, right. You gotta swing. Everyone is failing. At least half the time. Right. Than the people who are amazing. 

Exactly. So that's my point on here is that this is 

why you're doing running and not being 

Yeah, exactly. I know they got a better, better average on here. But the point is, , just to show up at the starting line takes courage.

Mm-hmm. And we've always talked about that and there's lots of races and it is like, you know, everyone look at each other, give yourself a, a slap. You're here, you showed up. Yeah. Because so many times, and this is true in anywhere in life, just showing up. Makes all the difference. Yeah. 'cause a lot of people think, oh, I'd love to do that.

No known this love to make it happen. You've gotta make it, you've gotta commit. 

Yeah. 

So I know there's always that chance. And, um, twice this year I've come really close. Mm-hmm. I mean, there was a 50 miler. I did, I I, same thing. I came in like with 20 minutes in the last cutoff. And I'm thinking, you know, and you're trying to prepare yourself, I might not make this.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I know I'd be really disappointed, um, mostly because, you know. I love to finish what I started, you know? Yeah. 

And you've worked really, really hard and dedicated a lot of time. Right. 

And if that was the thing, if I didn't make the cutoffs, what would've been hard for me is not because I had to stop because I had an injury or I couldn't, I ran outta energy, is because I didn't make the cutoffs.

I. So I, I, I, I accept that and there's actually been some races that I've looked at the time, like that's way too tight for me. Yeah. I don't think I'm gonna do that because I really would like to run that 50 mile. Sure. So definitely think, 'cause it would 

be a bummer to have time run out. Yeah. Time run 

out when I still feel good and I still want to go and, and I could have made it just 20 minutes later, you know?

So if that's a concern, then definitely look at some of those times. Yeah. There's definitely, here's the interesting thing and all the. The races I've done my best times have been in ones with open. With o you know, where, where they haven't you, there's no pressure. There's no pressure. Which is kind of interesting that my fastest 50 milers were ones when there was no time limit.

Yeah. So that's an interest, that's a difference. But, um, but there's always a chance. I know it's, it's eventually gonna happen, especially Sure. As I continue to get older, I'm gonna get slower and I'm still wanna, I still wanna challenge You're also doing it more and I'm doing it more. So you're just, just the chances rolling the dice more often.

Yeah. Or I, I may roll my ankle. I mean, so Right. And so I have to accept, and I think maybe now that I did my first a hundred and finished it. That when I do my second and there will be a second that, that if I didn't complete it, I could still walk away and know that I'm capable of doing it. But there's also things, so here's the nice story.

So I was the second to last finisher on on this hundred. The last finisher we ran together. Well, he tried to do the race last year. And didn't make it at mile 74 mm. It was his redemption run. Mm-hmm. So there's always that redemption. Yeah. And the power of redemption. And we talk about that a lot. Um, where I've done things, well, maybe I, I've never made, you know, I've cleared all run, but there's been hikes I haven't completed.

Mm-hmm. Because I want to do something so badly and got there and the weather or whatever. So, or there's 

a creek that's Tampa. Right, exactly. Or Yep. There's sketchy rotten snow. Exactly. And if all kinds of reasons. Plenty of those. Yep. 

And in almost every one of those cases that's happened, I've been able to go back and have the redemption hike.

Yeah. And the redemption hike has been sweet. 

Yeah. 

So there's always that chance. So again, don't be afraid. And I used to always joke too about, you know. Putting myself out there to do a hundred mile and everything. I said, what's the worst that can happen to me? I get tired and I stop. It's not like I'm doing something.

I mean, there could be worry if I was under prepared. I can have a hard sure, but you know, if I'm doing everything way and it just doesn't work out, take that chance. 

Yeah. 

And I think for mo many people, and this again, this is one of the thing I'm constantly emphasizing my writing, everything. A lot of people are afraid to get out of their comfort zone.

Yeah. And to me. Getting outta the comfort zone has been times when I've truly lived. Yeah. When I've gone to places that I'm like, I'm not really sure here. And you really live Yeah. And running a hundred mile or is not comfortable. It's not easy. No. It's, but. Truly living. Mm-hmm. So that's really cool. So that's kind of how I, and that's what keeps me going.

I'm gonna keep doing it till I can't do it anymore. Yeah. So, 

okay. So when did you know you were gonna finish? Was it good point? Literally when you were at the like, so I had all starting or the finish line, or was it at like mile 90 ones? You were like, oh, I got this. 

Well, I had all the cutoffs I was doing, I was doing really well in the beginning, but that second half was tough and I was losing time.

I did a lot of walking on that second half. And 

it also sounds like you're. Biggest concern around finishing was running out of time. Yeah. Right. 

Yeah. So at no point did I think, I can't do this. Okay. Okay. That was good. But I started worrying with the clock. You couldn't do faster because I was getting slower at the end.

I was walking more. Yeah. And even on some downhill areas where I tried to run, it's like, oh my God, I'm so tight. This is difficult. Yeah. So I was getting nervous. Made that last cutoff and realized, I have enough time to finish this. 

So how many miles in was that? I think it was six 

miles left with that last cutoff.

Yeah. And a lot of people didn't make that one. What a bummer. To go 94 miles and get pulled off the course. Such a heartbreaking, oh, I feel for those people, that's brutal. But that last six miles was not easy. We had to go back up on onto the Timberline Trail timber. It was hot. Um, because this was during the day.

During the day now. Yeah. It's real. It's in the afternoon. The sun's, you crossing ski slopes, you're on the open. Grady's soaking my hat and every creek cross. And we're going by. I'm getting passed and I realize I am getting slow and, and then my, my, my watch dies 'cause it ran out. So I'm like, oh my God. So I'm telling Grady running.

You need to call out to me. Every, you know, every mile, how much time? And at the very end, finally we're getting down close and like, just call it out every, and he's calling out the time I'm coming in and know. And then my son, I, and I can hear the people and I'm thinking, oh my God. Oh, you're there. And I was able to actually run, I'm running the last mile.

I'm like, I am gonna. Come in on the sucker finish and to see that and coming across that line, 22 minutes to spare, you know, my wife's there, my friends there, my pa I mean, it was unbelievable. And I had people, I, I had a couple people came up to me, I, they said, I follow you and everything, you know, um, congrat, I'm like, it was amazing.

It's like, it was, and, and the race director, um, coming and, and you get. In, in the a hundred mile, you get a belt buckle. That's, that's the thing. Yeah. You get, I get my first belt buckle. Um, and having that, you know, um, and it's just like. Wow. I cannot believe 

So. It sounds like it really was kind of at the end when you knew you were gonna make it.

Yeah. The last or when you knew you were gonna make it fast enough. Yeah, I was, I was just greedy was, I was worried the last time telling you, you, you're okay. Yeah. You're still in it. You're, 

and I remember one point, I'm coming down and I'm yell out to these high, these runners that passed me, how much farther?

And they go, 3.5. I'm like, oh my god. Kilometers they were Canadian. I go 3.5. That's great. I'm. That's nothing. 10 feet. Well, it just, it's a difference between two miles and a huge difference. It's a huge difference. Like it was less than two, you know, it was like just a little over two miles or three and a half miles.

Then that's, that could be the difference. You know, 15 minutes on the course here, right at this point, and I'm like, okay, I'm feeling better. Just keep going. I'm gonna make it, you know, and, and theoretically I could have walked that last mile. I still had time. Right. And of course, 

something could have happened.

Like he could have twisted, twisted the 

ankle, whatever, but like worrying that you knew, okay, I've got this. Yeah. And, and just, and that's when you start feeling like this unbelievable coming in, like, oh my God, I can believe I'm gonna make it. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's, it's the, you know, again, it's, it's so hard to even imagine doing.

And that's the other thing I have to emphasize. When you do something a hundred mile run, it's. It's kinda like the Chinese proverb. The longest journey starts with a single set. It's one mile at a time. Yeah. You can't look out. No, it's all so much is mental. You just, every little point you get across some here, but I tell you, it's amazing.

You watch your, your garment. Like it just hit 80 miles and you're just like, you know, hit it and it just becomes a point like, I can't put 90 miles, you know, like, how am I doing? It's like, this is nuts. Right. Yeah, it's, it, it is you, you. But I think that's one of the things is to train that mind and then it transcends as you're talking into so many other aspects Yeah.

Of my life. Yeah. You really, you learn so many other things about how, how much you really can, you can overcome. Yeah. I think a lot of us don't give ourselves enough credit on how strong we really are. Yeah. You know, and sometimes we have cushy lives and that's great, but, but sometimes we find how strong we are when we have a crisis.

This is, doing this kind of stuff is a great way to see, like, I gotta do what I need to do to get there. Mm-hmm. And you see this kind of stuff too. And I don't wanna trivialize, you know, people in, in tough situations, but you see how people survive in these really tough, and I think lots of us say, I can't even imagine.

And I think we don't give ourselves credit that maybe we could survive. Yeah. Doing that. So I, it just, again, it, it living for the moment and just again, and I talk about this a lot. We are so surrounded by conveniences and technology to make our lives easier. And I think this is part of the attraction.

Why is there this explosion in ultra running now? , Maybe it's kind of we're acting counter to this convenience of I can just put on, virtual reality headset and climb a mountain. I mean, people do this kind of stuff. Yeah. Where, where we lose our humanness. Yeah. And here it's like I got all the conveniences.

Of modern life ain't life great and everything, but I'm not happy. I need to find out who I am. Yeah. My, my humanness. Yeah. And it really, it really shows your mortality too. Yeah. You realize, uh, especially as I get older too, every day is a blessing for me that I can go out and do this kind of stuff. I. Ah, I feel really blessed, because,, I love life.

I love doing this stuff, and I know it's not that far off. I won't be able to do this anymore. 

Yeah. 

Um, so I'm gonna take advantage and I, I have to say, everyone out there who's listening, if you've got that dream, you always wanna do the PCT or something like that. Now is the time. Yeah. You know, don't keep putting it off.

Yeah. You never know what's gonna happen. Yeah. It's true. So, um, again, I had three things coming together. The, the awful pandemic getting a, an autoimmune that thankfully I was able to put into remission. And this is getting old. I mean, we're all gonna get old. I mean, the alternative, you know, we're 

lucky.

Yeah. The alternative is not good. Yeah. Best case scenario 

is someday we get old. 

Exactly. And if we, you know, we can, we have, you know, hopefully we can live. Well, as we get older, uh, I think that's really important. Uh, and, and we do have a lot, and, and I understand we, some of us are belt, uh, are dealt bad cards.

I I totally get it. If we're fortunate, we're not, we have a lot of control. Mm-hmm. And even, you know, we have a control of even Thornton, I mean, when I had that, that diagnosis, I had a lot of choices. I can, I, I can do about my Yeah. You know, how I want to live my life. Yeah. Uh, and matter of fact, and that's a good point, when I, I first went into a forum.

I'm trying to get support and so many people were negative. I couldn't take it. And I realized a lot of people are negative 'cause they've been living negative lives. Their entire thing. It's not the disease. Yeah, it's their negative. But I connected with a 70-year-old bloke in the UK who does a hundred mile runs.

He's like, Craig, you can, you can put this in. That's awesome. I've love to thank this guy, just this Virgil guy because he's like, I've got this. You can do it. You know, don't give up. You know, 

it's funny that you said that, 'cause. I think everybody knows that I work as a tour guide, right? I've done that for a long time and right now I work in Alaska when I'm working as a guide.

And, one of the things that I sometimes tell other people when they ask about guests on tour is I say, well, usually people continue to be themselves when they're on vacation. 

That's good or bad, but 

Right. You know, so. So for people who are really negative, they continue to be really negative. Yeah.

Bingo. People don't become different people. Bingo on vacation. And I think, you know, I've talked about that a lot with my parents too. My mom I know, has talked many times about when her parents were getting towards the end of their lives that I remember 'cause I was an adult then. And I remember her talking about how.

You know, kind of who we are is who, when, when we get close to the end of our lives Yeah. Will will be the person that we set ourselves up to be. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, so it's like, you know, whether it's a big goal that you wanna meet or just the way you wanna live your life, you know, like if you wanna become a hiker, just start doing it.

Yeah. You know, it doesn't have to be anything, anything complicated, right. Or anything. You know, you can just start where you are and that's how you learn. That's how all of us, I mean, you know, taking that first step, I learned there, there was never a time 

and we made mistakes. I remember, I remember hiking ready.

In jeans my first time in hiking, right? Without any water. All right. All right, so we go, all right, you internet people start getting out. We, we make those mistakes and we learn from them, you know?

Oh yeah. And that's the same thing, you know, to start that hike or start trail running or even ultra running or everything, you know, again, as long as you're not being foolish, you know, you may not have a successful, probably not gonna die.

Um, right. And, but the thing is again, don't be afraid to try it. And, and certainly if you're getting up in age. Don't sit there and say, you know, I'm too old for that. Yeah. You know, and that's, to me, I totally agree with that. That's, yeah. To me, matter of fact, it's become, it's really interesting, my whole thing on age is that for so long, I mean, I've always been obsessed with getting old because I love life so much.

I wanna live three, three lifetimes. And for a long time I, I just wanted to, I always like, I don't wanna talk about my age. I want to be young. But also I'm wearing my age and my sleeve now because it's like, my God, I'm in my sixties and I'm still living, you know, like, like I I, I could be in my thirties even.

I couldn't even do this in my thirties. Yeah. So, um, the opportunities are still there. So don't, and again, I could tell so many people, okay, I'm never gonna be fast again. That, that's ship has sailed. Yeah. But there are other things I can do. Right. And it's the same thing for anybody out there. So don't give up if you've never hiked before or never, never climbed Mount Rainier that, I mean, there's people in their seventies that are doing this.

There's people in their seventies that are doing a hundred mile. Matter of fact, there was a. Out in Nevada, 80 year olds running a hundred mile race. Amazing. 80. I hope to be one of them. I really do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

The other thing too, that I wanna emphasize, and again, this is very true and I realize that with age definitely comes wisdom.

If it doesn't, you're doing something wrong. Yeah. Okay. You really are. And I, and my, my mind now, when I look at, when I was, you know, 30 years, I mean, just again, how I see things, how I react to things, I am definitely more patient. Definitely more tolerant. Um, that's all a good thing. And if you're not, then you're not aging properly.

Because if you're more intolerant and you're more, you know, and more inpatient, that's not good. Okay. Yeah. But I find that, that is the trade off, uh, about, you know, having the, the weaker bladder and the weaker eyesight is, I have wisdom now, you know, so. Yeah. 

Yeah. Well, Craig, thanks so much for, for sharing this with me and everybody.

Listeners, we would love to hear from you. Absolutely. If, if you are like, , if you have thoughts about this or like something new, you started in midlife or later in life. We would love to hear about that. We'll, we'll share. We're not gonna talk you 

out of it, I'll tell you that right now. No, 

no. Or if this is something that you have questions about, you know, you can always click that text, uh, text us link that's in the show notes and just keep in mind that we can't reply to that.

Thanks Craig. You're welcome. Thanks Jennie. See you next time everybody.



 If you are enjoying the Washington State Hiking Podcast, Craig and I would love to have you leave us a rating and a review that helps other people find us. And if you wanna support us financially, you can leave us a tip through the show notes. No account, no commitment, nothing like that. Thank you so much for listening and see you next week.