The Washington State Hiking Podcast

Hope and Gratitude for our Public Lands

• Jennie Thwing Flaming and Craig Romano • Episode 95

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 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive.

Well, Craig. Jenny, Merry Christmas. Oh na. Merry Christmas to ya. Do you celebrate Christmas in Italy? I, no, but I celebrate with my very Italian family though, so, so, well, so, um, we learn that very, very, very quickly. Listeners, if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas to you. If you don't, I hope you have an awesome day no matter what.

And a great day. Just the same. Exactly, yes. So obviously probably we are not recording this on Christmas. We're recording it just a little before Christmas and um, we thought it would be kind of fun to have a special episode about gratitude for our trails and the opportunity that we have to hike on them.

So. Craig, what were some of the things that you wanted to talk about today? Well, that, you know, so when we talk about this whole, the Christmas spirit and everything and what it means to all kinds of people, for me, I mean, it, it is definitely, you know, it's funny 'cause I just watched with my son the other night, the Charlie Brown Christmas, which is one of my absolute favorites.

It's 60 years old and still resonates and so much about it is finding the meaning of Christmas. And, you know, that's been taken over by commercialization and everything, you know. Um. So I, to me, it's all about experiences and family and community, you know, and, and, and this positive life and renewal and everything.

And where do I get a lot of that? I, I, I get that on the trail. I, I, I, I get that in the outdoors. Uh, so, so it got me thinking a lot about how do we practice. Gratitude. I mean, certainly, you know, we receive gifts and, and, and, you know, of, of, of service and commercial gifts and, but you know, the people that have given to us, we, we wanna show our gratitude in many respects.

You know, we're very thankful and, um, perhaps we reciprocate, but just showing that. But I like to see like where we can go beyond ourselves and not feel the need that we have to get something of equal value back or, or, or material value. And, and, and, um. A lot of it, and I've done this too when I've done gift giving.

'cause I think, um, I'm at that point certainly it's like, ah, I don't really need any material. Or, you know, I, I'm more interested. I've always been interested in experiences, but also what about giving gifts that don't? Initially benefit me, like, um, I'm giving something that's beyond myself for someone else.

Uh, so a lot of it too, I think, uh, and again, it's kind of, you probably have already, already given out your gifts and also this is to think in the future, but gift memberships, giving out gifts of memberships to, to groups that are very, very near, uh, to your values or. Or, or actually even better, to the values of the person that you're giving the gift.

It wouldn't make sense if you're, if, if there's a conflict or hopefully you have some kind of, you know, persuasion, like perhaps, you know, you care about animals. So maybe, you know, maybe you wanna make a, a gift to this organization that's looking to, um, to address issues of endangered species or, you know, grizzly bear recovery or wolf recovery, or.

Lions in Africa or whatever is important to you. And there's certainly are plenty of organizations, uh, that we can, that we can give gifts to or be involved with right here in our backyard. Uh, so one of the, I've always, again, you break it down to different, so if it's just strictly about hiking and about getting people out outdoors, um, on the recreation aspect, there's groups like the Mountaineers, um, that make wonderful.

Uh, gift memberships, and they're always looking at that. And that's a great way to introduce people. Matter of fact, that's one of the ways I've, I've introduced people to, to organizations that they didn't know were involved or, or same here. You, you get a membership and then you can decide, wow, this was great, and you continue and yeah, and, and you keep playing on.

So I think that's great. Um, and the same thing, um, if you're all about, I mean, we're all about trails here, but the Washington Trails Association, same thing. The gift membership, um. The trails of Oregon. Uh, another great TKO. And I know in the past what, what I, I can't remember. Um, it was something, uh, that I did.

It was one of those things, um, it about making donations what I was doing instead, instead of just making a straight donation to this organization, um, it's like. I'm gonna make a donation that's gonna cover the fee for someone that, that, that didn't, that doesn't have the resources to do that. Yeah. So it's, it, it's a, it's another great way.

I know these organizations, uh, a lot of 'em would be happy to work with you. And even discount, it's like you want to help some, you know, you know if somebody, or even if you don't know, so, you know, there's people out there that would love to be a member of this organization involved, but they don't have the resources.

This is a great, a great place where you can show. Your gratitude to these organizations and play it forward, uh, and, and, and, and make a gift donation of somebody you don't even know. Mm-hmm. And, and, and really make a difference. And I know a lot of these groups are really good about that.

All these groups that, that I've mentioned so far, um, are very, very inclusive.

I think that's really important too, that, you know, again, you wanna match your values. You want groups that are, that are welcoming, but there's even groups that go beyond that. That, um, uh, that the Inclus inclusivity is, is, is their main mission, not just part of the mission. So you can look again about getting people involved, groups like outdoor Afro, uh, Latino Outdoors, uh, the bronze chapter, which is right here.

Um, it was founded by a couple Washingtonians. Uh, I mean, they're all about getting. People that perhaps you have been under, not perhaps people that have been underrepresented in, in the outdoors. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, um, Sean, it's, it's your outdoors too. You belong here just as much as anybody else.

It's not about your ethnicity, your socioeconomic status, um, you know, it's, it's, it's yours. So again, these groups are, are wonderful. And, um, you, you might wanna look at, look into some of these, these groups. Yeah. Um. There's also, again, um, perhaps you're more about advocacy and, and you realize right now, um, you know, we're, we're living some challenging times.

We've got an administration that's very challenging on so many fronts. Um, and this again, is an opportunity for those of us to bring people together, um, to, to, to go against some, you know, uh, some of these negative influences are going on. So, um, certainly in the environment, as you know, the federal government is not.

It's becoming a threat in some of these areas. Um, perhaps you wanna join organizations that are making sure that our laws are actually being, um, enforced. You know, our environmental laws, so there's groups like the Western Environmental Law Center, which, which they're out of, uh, Eugene. Very, very effective.

And they represent a large umbrella of organizations because these guys know environmental law. Um, so they're taking on cases. Matter of fact, they've, they've represented right here where I live in Skagit County area. So you kinda look at what they're all over the west about, whether it's protecting wolves or, or clean water, you know, um, old growth forests.

I mean, these are really important. Again, these are, you know, we hike in these areas, recreate in these areas. We can't take 'em for granted. Sometimes we have governments that are. Are on the same side with us that are, that are all about protecting these areas. And sometimes we don't. So you may wanna look, look there.

Conservation Northwest, another organization they're based here in, in Washington, has done some incredible work in the past, including protecting Loomis State Forest. It's probably their, to me, that that was their biggest win ever, uh, which is protecting wolf habitat and Lynx habitat. Um, friends of the Columbia Gorge, another fantastic.

Organization that's been around since the 1980s. And uh, they are the reason that the Columbia River Gorge is a national scenic area and is not all houses and McDonald's and Starbucks and Yep. Data centers, you know, the entire way. It's, um, so, you know, people have to get involved and these groups are great and, and, um, that could be what you're all about too.

Uh, could also be, I would love to see the gorge. Become a national park, you know, and the thing is, I talk about this, like, we've talked about this before, but it's never gonna happen. And, and the main reason I, I shouldn't say never, but I don't think it's ever gonna happen because of just. Too much infrastructure beforehand.

You had highways and railroads and power lines. I know. Um, and, but, but it became this national scenic area, which is, which is awesome. Which is, I think there's only two of these in the whole country. It's own. Yeah. Uh, that works. And it's definitely complicated the way, but, but it seems to be working, uh.

Yeah, it's not perfect. Um, but I'll tell you, uh, if you saw where we were going, and I remember when this, this, this was passed in 1986. I remember the threats that were happening in the gorge and, and how controversial this was. And people fought this and the whole thing. Uh, and it was messy and everything.

But what's interesting all these years later now, when you see the results that it has stopped the sprawl, the quality of life, um, the, the, the, how it's. Enhanced these areas. That certainly would've been, uh, changed. I mean, you see the sprawl going on in Clark County right now, and I try to imagine that going all into skiing, all the way out to click tat.

Right. No kidding. You know, so, yeah. Craig, um. I love all those specific organizations that you mentioned like that. It's nice to have the specificity of, of that. There's one that I thought of while you were talking that isn't really an organization exactly, but I, but listeners, I think it's something that many of you probably really enjoy, which is the, they have social media channels and they also have a podcast and it's called Resistance Rangers.

Oh, yeah, I follow them. Have you heard of them? Yeah. Yeah. I, I follow them, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And they're really good follow, I think in part, again, it's not an organization, it's sort of a loosely affiliated group of current and former National Park service employees who share, uh, who basically are organizing to resist the Trump administration's cuts and threats to public lands.

Yep. And of course. Like you have said, and we've talked about before, the threat to our public lands is really real and really scary. But what I enjoy about their content, and I, I dunno if you agree with this, Craig, but I feel like in addition to saying, Hey, this is happening, um. Please take this action, which I appreciate when someone says, here is a specific thing you can do, you can call your senator and say this, okay.

You know, I could do that. You know? Right. Um, or you can share this post so other people can see this information. But one of the things I love about their. Their Instagram, which is the one that I follow, and their podcast is that despite the tough times and the tough subject, I find it really hopeful and it's really reminded me of how dedicated many public servants, but in particular, you know, in this case it's park of a staff, how dedicated they are to our public lands.

And that is not, it's not okay what they're going through, but I think. Listeners, I think you already know that my husband grew up in the park service and worked for the Park Service for many years, but right now I don't have someone. I do have a couple friends who still work there, but I don't have someone in my daily life who's talking about this like I have in the past.

And so I found, you know, listening to their pod and, and following their Instagram, really. Hopeful from that perspective, even though it's a grim subject. So I just wanted to throw that in there 'cause I was thinking about it while you were talking. No, it's, it's funny you mentioned that's a great idea. Um, and likewise on Facebook, I follow the alt park service.

Same thing. It's, it's almost all made up of, of former and present kind of clandestine at working to try to, yes. To try to keep our, and it's funny, we call 'em clandestine, but they're actually adhering to the law. Oh yeah, absolutely. It's, yeah, it's, it's the Trump administration that's clandestine. They're trying, you know, they're working against the law.

Um, a few of my, um, friends and family members on my Christmas list this year got resist. Smokey the bear resist t-shirts from them. So again, uh, putting love that my money, uh, I, yeah, I'm giving my money to this organization that's working. You know, representing my values and we're getting the word out because now you're advertising, they, they, wow.

That's an interesting, uh, an interesting, you know, t-shirt. And I've seen this, the bumper sticker on cars and stuff, and already it, it, it, it can, it builds a community. It's like, oh, this person at the Trailhead with a resist sticker. I already feel a kinship to this person. You know, we're on the same page here.

So, yeah, that's, it's really important. And again, yes, it's dark. These are some of the darkest, this is, you know, again, I feel like, oh my God, it's 2020 all over again on a certain, I feel like 2025, uh, has, has some of the darkness of 2020. Um, but if you go back and look at a lot of our environmental wind, um.

Some of them were at periods where we thought it's all lost again. We can go back to the 1880s when about the only bison you're gonna find were, were in the Bronx Zoo. I mean, they, you know, people would sit in, in, in trains going across the plains and just shoot them at will. And, you know, you destroyed an entire culture of people and, and, and, and, and destroy, destroyed the entire species.

That was a win. We brought him back. We lost on the passenger pigeon. They did the same type of thing. Yeah. But we have to, we have to look at these wins. And, and same thing when I was growing up, bald eagles were in danger. Get, I mean, and, and it took Rachel Carson, you know, a single person writing a single book that woke up a nation that saved so many birds, so many species.

And I feel again, so we have to have gratitude. Um. Again for these people again, and these are great gifts too. I give how many people, young people today have never read Silent Spring and what it means. Yeah, there's a perfect book to give a person get, get that conversation going, what these people did, and it's all about hope.

Yeah. And that's the same thing. And, and, and you know, I was just, you know, we talked about this, I was in Tuskegee earlier this year, Rosa Parks hometown, how a single person made a huge difference. Yeah. So a lot of those people are doing the same thing here in the environmental. Perhaps you'll be one of those people too.

Um, yeah. But collectively we're even more powerful and that again. So we should have gratitude. I know sometimes it gets, you go in this downward spiral and it's like, oh God, we lost that forest. We lost that. But instead, you know, practicing gratitude. I'm thankful that. We didn't lose the red wolf, we didn't lose the Florida panther.

We didn't lose, you know, uh, the spot at all yet, you know, we protecting these old growth forest, but we, we gotta keep, you know, we, we gotta stay with hope. Yeah. And, and, and, and we do this by practicing what, you know, graduate for what we do have. Um, and, and I think that's really important. And, and again, we have to live that lifestyle.

Uh, yeah. And so I'm talking about all these great organizations. That are going. But you know, also as, as consumers we live in, you know, this is how our society works for better, for worse, um, support companies that support that, that hold your values. There are a lot of companies out there that, um. Care about the environment.

Yeah. You know, they care that, that care, social justice issues and such. Support them and yeah. And, and, and be wary of, of, of, of the companies that their values are definitely, you know, against everything you believe. Uh, one of the obvious companies, uh, you know, and again, I've loved this, this company since the eighties.

I couldn't afford them in the eighties. Uh, Patagonia an amazing, amazing organization. You know, you know, their, their, um, their founder has done. I mean hundreds of thousands of acres of, of protecting in, in, in Chile, which is where Patagonia is, is located. So there's a lot of these organizations out there, and we have 'em right in our backyard too.

And they might not be the big, it just might be the local coffee shop, the local brew pub that has, you know, that makes a special, especially beer with the name of a mountain and gives back money to. Yeah. Yeah. The WA, there's a lot of these groups. Yeah. And I think Jenny, we need to do a podcast on, on these groups.

Maybe even have some of these, these entrepreneurs on, on our screen talking about Yeah, that would be great. I would love that. That's a great idea. Yeah. I mean, we have to, you know, if you're one of those entrepreneurs, hit that text message button. Tell us and, and tell us. And tell us, tell us why. And again, and give us your email, please.

Yeah. Uh, you know, to me it's always been interesting. You can't separate yourself, I don't think. You know, people go into the woods and, and you hike and, and if you, if you do that and you, you love the outdoors, but you have no feeling for protecting the environment or how it happens, I, to me that's a, that's a big disconnect.

I, I, and, and I think. It just doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't jive for me. For me, it's always been integrated. I grew up with a love of nature. Uh, and then the hiking kind of followed. It's like, how can I get closer to nature? I was introduced to nature as a young child and realized the relevance of it and what it meant to my life and the joy it brought, and then I kind of molded my life to live a life more, uh, outdoors and active and everything.

So I, I know a lot of people now are being introduced to the outdoors through social media and everything. It's, it's not as, you know, as, as org as, um. Oh, I guess, what's the term I'm trying to, to use? Uh, they're, they're being introduced to the hiking part first. And the, the nature thing is kinda like, oh, there's the mountain, here's the forest.

But I'm more Mm, mm-hmm. I wanna get to the top of the mountain, get to the tree. Yeah. And, and you're not really appreciating doesn't, you know, to a lot of these people, it doesn't really matter to them if they're passing, you know, a rare forest or, or, or a special park that almost became, you know, housing development or so like, and I think.

We need to be really be conscious of that, um, and, and at the end to have gratitude that we have this place now because it, it almost didn't happen that way, and yet, and we have the power now to continue that so, so that the next generation or the, or the community on the other side of the mountains has that same opportunity.

Yeah. Uh, and I think this is really, really important. And yeah. And, and, and as bleak as things can be, certainly in this administration, and I've lived through plenty and this is. Ble. Um, it's not gonna, it, it, it's things are gonna turn around. Um, and I will have lots of gratitude when this is over, lemme tell you because I feel really confident that we're gonna, some great things are gonna happen, but, but we can't re, you know, we can't give up, you know?

So. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I may not be as optimistic as you about. The future of our current structure, but I share your feeling that we need to show up and be. The kind of people that we wanna be, no matter what happens, be the change. You wanna be it, I mean, all these, yeah. You know, I'm, I'm the tail end of the baby boom.

All these little trait things, but I'll tell you, it's because I'm a Gen Xer. That's why I'm kind of like pe. Yeah. And I, and I grew up watching the change, you know, watching the change, you know? Yeah. Um, so I just feel like we've got a little bit of a setback right now, but it definitely we can, it could happen again.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, 1960s, part two, are we gonna see that? So, or, or, uh. You know, the nine, the 19 teens and twenties were progressive. The 1850s were progressive. Pick your era. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And so, but there was always darkness in between all these things too. So, um, that's the thing. You can't have light without darkness.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so the light is on the way, and I think that's great. That's also Christmas is all about too. I mean, you know, celebrating the light, you know, that's the thing. I mean, uh, you know, not to, uh, go against anybody's beliefs, but, um, the whole thing with, um. Just celebrating Christmas. There's a lot of, uh, controversy with Christ was even born during his time.

Probably not, but, but lining up, lining up Christmas to the solstice. It makes a lot of sense, you know, about the light and renewal. Yeah. You know, it's not like today is Christmas day, but there are many world religions that have a major holiday around this time of year that is related Yep. To light like Hanukkah and d Diwali in Dali.

Yeah. And, and, um. And many others there. There are many. So it's not only about Christmas and like you said, you know, do, do we know when Jesus was born. I don't think we do. You know, so it's like this is, you know, it's close to solstice. It's a big holiday time of cell for all humans. Regardless of what religion they are or what they celebrate is this time of year in the Northern Hemisphere.

Anyway, we are. We are celebrating the return of the light of light. And that's really important. And, and that, and I, I think to me, and that's a great universal, um, because yeah, it doesn't matter what our personal religious beliefs are, we certainly celebrate our personal beliefs, but there's no reason we can't have this universal celebration of light and hope.

And, and again, if you look at what all these, these, these religions. Their, their tenants. They're, they're all, I mean about goodwill and, and, and, and re and, and, and, uh, you know, bringing on the light and, and renewal and everything. These are universal and again. You know, this is a way of building community and, and it's not separating, it's bringing us closer.

Um, I celebrated the first night of Han I'm Not Jewish. I celebrate the first night of Hanukkah by going to Zula, you know the mm-hmm. The wild lanterns in Zula. It was a festival of lights. It was wonderful. Yeah. Now I, now I usually watch it Adam Sandler movie too, you know, so, but, so, but it's all good.

That's awesome. Well, happy holidays everyone. Craig and I are, Merry Christmas is Happy holidays to you all. Yeah. Yes. We're looking forward to you. Continuing to bring you awesome hiking content for Washington in 2026, and we're really excited about what we have lined up for you, so congratulations getting through the shortest, wettest, darkest days of the year.

Unless you're in Australia. If you're in Australia and you're listening, that's not true for you or New Zealand. All right, see you next time.

 If you are enjoying the Washington State Hiking Podcast, Craig and I would love to have you leave us a rating and a review that helps other people find us. And if you wanna support us financially, you can leave us a tip through the show notes. No account, no commitment, nothing like that. Thank you so much for listening and see you next week.  

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Jennie Thwing Flaming

Host
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Craig Romano

Co-host