30 Years of Adventures in Wenatchee with Andy Dappen

Andy Dappen, founder of Wenatchee Outdoors, sits down with Jennie and Craig to talk about his life adventuring in the Wenatchee area, his 70 for 70 challenge for his 70th birthday, advocating for public lands and his favorite trails for hikers in Wenatchee.

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, 

and I'm your co-host Craig Romano.

Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive



 Our sponsor for the month of May is the Oregon Coast Visitors Association, OCVA. Partners with coastal communities to support thoughtful destination development and strong local partnerships guided by a shared vision of creating an enriched coastal experience for all. That means supporting local communities, welcoming new, and returning visitors and caring for the natural places that make the Oregon Coast so special.

Start planning your trip today at visit the Oregon coast.com. I.



Our guest today is Andy Dappen. Andy has spent decades sharing his love of the trails of North Central Washington in the Wenatchee area with other people through his beautiful writing and also Wenatchee Outdoors that he founded in 2005.

And it is so wonderful having you with us today. Andy, thank you so much for being here. Fun to be with you. Yeah. So do you wanna give a little more color to our kind of intro there? Tell us how you came to be such a fan of, and such an advocate for the trails of the Wenatchee area. Well, I move to the area in 1999 and it was, um, really because this is such a good place.

To live in Wenatchee, to incorporate life. Whether that's your family or work with getting outdoors, we have immediately accessible wildlands next to town. We have a very close ski area between Blewitt Pass Mission Ridge, Shalan Lake Shalan, the Icicle Valley. We have a ton of different possibilities for back country skiing.

The Wenatchee River. Runs right into town. So, um, I came over to this area specifically for the outdoors. I was an outdoor writer at the time, and, um, this was a place where. I, I had lived in the Seattle area prior to moving here, and it, Seattle, even back in 1999, was getting so that it took you a few hours to get out of town on the weekend and a two hour, two hours to get back into town.

Mm-hmm. So you really had to devote a whole day to doing something. And here in Wenatchee you can be outdoors in five minutes. Get a few hours of, whether it's exercise or inspiration or whatever your connection to the outdoors is, and then be back to contend with family, contend with work,, and kind of live your life.

So just that idea of having a backyard resource to be active was what really attracted me to the area. And because I was an outdoor writer, once I got over here, I. Started looking for ways that I could incorporate my profession into making a living over here also.



You know, Andy, the first time. I went to Wenatchee. I was on a cross country bicycle trip on my way back east, and I was living in the east at the time and it was 1980. And I went through this town, this tiny little town, and I'll tell you, if I was a Hollywood film location guy looking for a 1950s location.

That's where I would've pointed Wenatchee. It was sleepy. I'm thinking there's nothing here. And, and now I describe Wenatchee as the bend of, of, of Washington, um, of how much, um, it's, it's just amazing. And a lot of that is because the work that you've done with the Land Trust, and we're gonna talk about that.

You can just stay right in town. They have wonderful places now you can stay in town and just be out hiking, trail running, skiing, mountain biking, and then just come back and be in a, uh, getting a microbrew. And, uh, it's amazing how much that area has changed. And how,

desirable it, it is for, for anyone who loves the outdoors. So yeah, it's been cool watching that transformation. 

Well, and that, that really is the story of a lot of different small towns. You know, the Bozeman, Montana at one time, Boulder, Colorado. Yeah. Sand Sandpoint, whitefish, you know, all of these places.

I think for the baby boomers, , you know, we've. Looked for a place that we could retire, um, or serve part of our career in these places where we have great outdoor resources. , You and I are probably at a stage of life where we are retired or retiring, and so we want a good place to live.

And then now with., A lot of younger generations, they have the, the ability to to to work remotely. So having a place where you can just, as I was saying, you can get your yahoos early in the morning or at the end of the day, but. Get the other part of your life taken care of, um, during the bulk of the day.

The, it, it makes these places extremely desirable. And so all of these little towns that have good outdoor resources have grown tremendously. And I, I, I feel fortunate that. Wenatchee hasn't exploded in the way that some towns have. It's been on a very gradual and continual growth curve, but it hasn't gone completely bonkers like some towns and 

Yeah.

, To me, some places have. Gotten too loved and been loved to death. Mm-hmm. Um, and so Wenatchee might eventually get to that point, but it, it, it's still on a kind of a steady rather than an explosive growth. 

Yeah. 

Well, well that's what, why it's so important. For the planning and particularly in, recreation conservation.

And that's where the lan, uh, Douglas Land Trust comes in. You look at, all those foothills just to the west of the town that could very easily have become condos, marching all the way up and everything. And again, this is why, you know, people have this desire.

That for recreation and, and this, this outdoor lifestyle. But you don't wanna ruin, you know what, yeah. What, what attracted you there? And the same token, you can't be a gatekeeper either, because the hypocrisy of that, and I see this everywhere being played out. Um, you know, I get here, I wanna close the doors now nobody else comes in.

And, and yet, you know, so every generation's blaming the person before them. They came there. So again, how do you strike that balance?

Mm-hmm. 



Well, I think, uh, you know, you had mentioned the Chelan Douglas Land Trust the land trust here in this area, which covers, the counties of Chelan and Douglas, counties, but they've just been such an important.

Organization in trying to protect these lands that are close to town. They've been through a lot of different planning processes with our county officials and our city officials trying to designate those lands that make the most sense to. Preserve and maintain for recreational purposes. And at the same time, you know, recognizing that growth is important, growth is going to happen, you can't shut down everything.

Whether because infrastructure can be provided there or because maybe they've already lost a lot of their natural resources that, , so the con the conservation effort may not be quite as important for certain lands.

And, I think our land trust has been particularly. Effective at maintaining good relationships with county officials, county commissioners, city officials, so that they're trusted not to just just be only out for the environmental side of things. They're trusted to have a balanced perspective and, and consequently, I think early in their.

In their years of development, there was a lot more skepticism as to who are these people, why are they trying to lock up everything, 

right? 

And when I say lock up everything in Chelan County, 87% of the land is already. Preserved in some form of public ownership, whether that's state ownership or federal ownership.

So, back in the eighties when the Land Trust started, there was quite a animosity towards any thought of locking up any, additional property. But, that property that's really close to town, . A lot of people have come to recognize that if you keep those properties available so that, or at least a percentage of those properties available so that they can be enjoyed, you really do become a very attractive place to live.

Even though I think early on there was, uh, contention., Over time people have realized, yeah, if we built things like the loop trail along the river and we have an active system of trails in the mountains, , this becomes a really desirable place to live. And the people that live here really value those assets.

And , over time I think people realize, gosh,. We, we, maybe, we thought these were not as important as they really are, and now we're, we really are considered to be quite a prime place and attractive place to live. And so that's brought in, businesses that enhance the lifestyle for the people that are outdoorsy.

And these things kind of work hand in hand to, to build a very vibrant community and a very vibrant outdoor community. 

It brings people like me, I come there, it, the tax dollars are coming in.

, It's hard striking that balance and I think Wenatchee's doing a pretty darn good job. Yeah. 

Well, Wenatchee's been, been lucky also, uh, or fortunate, lucky, maybe it's not the right word, but we are a medical hub for the area.

We're a power. The generator for the area. We have two dams, you know, on either side of Wenatchee. And we've got a, a quite a vibrant agricultural community here. So it's reason for existence really hasn't been. Recreation. It's, it's been these other three things that I mentioned and so, but recreation's really helped round out.

. So, it's not only drawn, uh, tourists to the area, it it's drawn professionals to the area who wanna practice in these other professions that, that we have here for quality of life.

Craig and I are really intrigued by your 70 for 70 challenge that you did. 'cause you. I turned 70 recently. I would love to know, I love how you reflected on that as far as like what this meant to you, but how people can kind of use something like a birthday to set up their own challenge.

So can you talk about that a little bit? 

Yeah, when I was, during the year that I was going to turn 70, I, I considered that my 70th year of life. I was just looking for something to keep me motivated, to stay active. And so I came up with the 70 project and I had all these different categories of things that I wanted to do during my 70th year of life.

So I had 70 peaks. I wanted to climb, I wanted to bike. 70 days I wanted to be out on skis. 70 days I wanted to climb outdoors. 70 days. I wanted, uh, to be able to do 70 route at the indoor gym of a certain difficulty. So I had all these physical goals, but I wanted to round it out some with both mental and social goals also.

I wanted during the year to read. Either 70 books and or magazines. In that kind of complete magazines, which, many years I don't get near, anywhere near that number. I start reading and I fall asleep. So, then I wanted to do 70. Days of different outings with different people, and I wanted to do 70 outings with my wife.

So a lot of those things I could stack together. You know, I, I might be able to bike for half a day and then ski half a day, or I might be able to, fulfill one of my days of, being out with a different person with one of my climbing days, et cetera. So if you try to. Add all these things up, it's more than 365, but when you consider you can stack 'em together, then it made sense.

And,, or for the most part, it made sense. I, I, I did learn some things didn't necessarily go together like I had hoped to ski 70 days and to whitewater paddle 70 days. And a lot of the skiing I do is back country skiing. And the back country skiing is good. In the spring when the runoff is good. So I realized, those things.

I, I think I got 50 days, 58 days of skiing and um, like 26 days of paddling. So I decided in some areas that the goals were unreasonable. In that particular case, I stacked together Whitewater as being. Snow is whitewater and ah, yes. Running whitewater is whitewater. So I put those things together, uh, at the end.

Uh, it was kind of a new math situation of yeah, figuring out, you know, this is my goal so I could make my own rules. But 

that's right and that's important, Andy. 'cause I feel like sometimes. People say things like, well, what if this happens? Or, or what if you don't do it? Yeah. 

And it's like, 

well, it's fine.

Yeah. And, and I mean, and another example along that line, Jennie was my wife broke her ankle during the year 

Oh no. 

And, and, uh, needed surgery. And so, you know, the, the, the notion of doing 70, I, you know, I had originally thought outdoor outings with her. So we started had to having to define like.

Going out for a meal or going to the movie as being Yeah. Acceptable outing. 

Yeah, 

so, you know, there was a little bit of, of having to adjust to what was coming your way, but for the most part, probably 90% of what I laid out there I was able to achieve. And that's 

really cool. 

And so it was just really a fun way to, keep myself motivated.

And there were a lot of days where maybe the weather wasn't all that inspiring and I was kind of going, eh, maybe I should not go out. But you know, it was kind of like, well, I gotta stay on pace with these goals here, so I guess I better go out. And I would say. Almost across the board. Those days where I was reluctant to go out and do something once I did, I came back just really happy that 

yeah, 

I'd gotten out the door.

And so kind of having this goal was a big part of, of, uh. Keeping me going, keeping me motivated, you know, kind of keeping the feet to the fire type of situation. So, 

yeah, 

it worked out really well. It was, it was wonderful. 

Had you ever done something like that before or were you like, I'm turning 70, I'm doing this?

Well, I haven't done anything quite like, like this one I, . People would probably take umbridge when I say I'm not really a list maker, because in a way I am a list maker, you know, as a climber, I have those peaks I wanna do, or those climbing roots. But, compared to, the people who have.

The Bulger 100 roots they're going to do or a hundred highest peaks, and they're gonna get that knocked off in X amount of time. I've been kind of mellow in respect or in comparison to quite a few list makers, but,. In this particular case, I had a spreadsheet and with, uh, where I could put in my, my wife built me a spreadsheet 'cause she's a spreadsheet expert.

Nice. 

Um, and, , I had all these different columns for the different. Categories I was doing, and so I could put my stats in there and very quickly calibrate how I was doing. Mm-hmm. You know, so this takes me kind of onto the level of some of my engineer friends who, they really quantify everything they're doing.

I would say I have not been that sort of person, but over the course of the year, I was, yeah. And actually, you know, kind of motivated me to think, uh, maybe I am not gonna do this every year, but I'm thinking about, okay, what am I gonna do for 75? Right? And, and, um, yeah, and, getting the spreadsheet out again might be actually kind of fun.

Yeah, I'm kind of like you, Andy. Like I, I like, I mean, I'm not like you. You have done way more stuff than I can ever dream of, but I'm also a little if on lists. I mean, I like to keep track of my ideas, but to me that's not exactly a to-do list. 

Right? 

But then there's like folks like Craig who are gonna do a marathon plus in every state.

I'm just type A, uh, the, I know 

And I'm like, you, Andy, I'm, I'm listening to Andy and I'm like, I'm exhausted listening to you because it's, to me, that's too complicated. I mean, I just wanna run in, in, in every state and do these ultras. I'm like, you have too many things, too many variables going on.

I like your variables. I like that there's kind of different moving parts and it's not all the same thing. And I love that you and your wife were able to. Pivot when life got lifey for you? 

Yeah. Well, when I look at Craig, you know, and the distances he runs and stuff, I just, you know, I'm kind of blown away, Greg,

, You're just, I didn't know that you're a mature chicken now. Uh, but, uh, yeah. You know, for me to run those kind of distances, I just kind of think, wow, I, I don't know how my legs would be able to take that. But you've been a lifelong runner, 

I think. Yeah. And, and cycle, uh, 40 year I've been, I, I, I started off as a cyclist.

It's funny. What you're saying, I, I know exactly what you're saying. I, I pretty much have lived my whole life this way because when I was a team, my goal was to bicycle in all 50 states. Okay. And, um, I did three major bike trips around North America, uh, and I ended up doing 49 states and never got to Hawaii.

I did all con, all 10 Canadian provinces. I went to New too. Wow. Um, I, I've always been driven on, on this, but, but what I've learned too, and, and you kind of both, um, one, I think it's really good to have these goals more because to me, uh, especially now as I'm getting older, realized life is so short and, , I just wanna see and do as much as I possibly can.

Uh, and, and I am very, very grateful that, that I have the health that I can continue to do this. I never lose track of that. And I, uh, but, um. At the same token, uh, I I think it's great to have these goals and, and it forces you to, one, learn a lot about yourself and, and also just to, to, to see what's out there.

There's so much, and again. What I'm doing, like the 50 states, uh, ultras, that's grandiose. But you and I've talked to people because I, I'm trying to motivate people and keep going just like you're saying. Make something that's relevant just to you. Right. It doesn't have to be, and it could be just 50 50 parks, uh, 50 places in my own county that I've never gone because you realize we, we get into these routines and I can't tell you how many times I've traveled all over these places and I'll meet these people like.

I've lived here my whole life and I never went there. And, I just flew 2000 miles to go see this place. And they don't, people don't realize, uh, what they have in their own backyards. And look at where you live too. I mean, they all, it'd be very easy to put together. I'm gonna do 50 new trails within Chelan County.

That's, that'd be a great goal. Right. Uh, that doesn't require a lot of money and a lot. A lot of planning and, and, and it's probably accessible to most people.

I've given presentations a number of times on this particular topic in the year, and. I like to close off the talk about this is, you know, now it's your turn to think about something to do and it doesn't have to be outdoorsy, it might be, but using your birthday is a good way to kind of.

Clue it into a goal. And so, you know, if you're turning 10, what are 10 new forms of transportation that you could experiment with? Or if you're turning 20, what are 20 significant climbs that for you, that would be. You wanna try to do that year or 30 rivers that you're gonna try to run over the course of the year or 40 books that you're going to try to read this year, or 50 new people that you're going to meet, or 60 volunteer hours that you're gonna do over each month, or you know, it just.

Whether it's knitting or hiking or running or meeting people or reading, you know, find something that you're passionate about and tie it into a goal. 

The other thing too, I think, and you touched upon this too, where a lot of people are afraid to do this, this kind of stuff, they're afraid of failure.

There's no failure in this. , Just getting up, lining up at that start, you've already done more than most people will ever do. A lot of people dream big. They're too afraid to, to make that next step. Yeah. What's the worst thing that can happen to me in one of my ultra runs?

I get tired and I have to stop. You know, it's like, there, there's gonna be other runs, there's gonna be other opportunities. So I think, you know. Again, don't be afraid. I'm always trying, and this is, one of the things I'm always emphasizing too, , and get outta your comfort zone., And you may learn something about yourself you never even realize.

Yeah. Something , you've never thought that you liked or something about you and, and you, can't possibly get there if you're, you never make that step. So sometimes you need a little motivation. You need somebody to push you there, or you maybe read it or see a film or something like, that's great.

It's even better when you find it out on your own. But, it's great to have mentors and, and, and, you know, inspiring, you know, figures there's so much redemption too, because if it didn't work out the first time.

The redemption's even sweeter. 

Yeah, no, that's great. And I, you know, one of the, the messages I have is, is just the first step is always the hard one. 

Mm-hmm. 

And, you know, that's a, both a literal and a figurative, comment. You know, the first step might be knitting your first sweater, but, um, you know, it's just hard to get going.

There's, there's often just this, um. I don't know, this lag to make the first effort, but then once you start something, it's easy to keep the momentum going. So yeah, it's true. You know, I felt like, you know, on any hike, you know, the first step just getting there, that's the hard one. And then once you're go underway, um, everything else comes a lot easier.

Yeah. Except for the last mile, which is always terrible no matter what. No matter how long or short it is the last mile doing, you know, 

but 

you 

know you're gonna 

get those ones done. How is it, when is this gonna be over? And I literally never think that any other 

No, you're right. You're right in that respect, Jenny, they're, they're harder in a different way.

Yeah. Getting out the door and then the last mile y Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Once you're out there, you're gonna get it done. 

So you're gonna, you might be whiny, but you're, you're doing it. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Unless you're gonna call for a, a rescue, you're gonna get there. 

That's right. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Lots of times I find the, those spots come.

In the middle somewhere. Um, you know, usually by the very end, once I've kind of feel I've, uh, I, I've made it past those awful humps and demons and everything, it's like, boy, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel or the cold beer in the cooler or whatever. Um, and then I'm, I'm usually quite motivated those last couple miles, but, but I'm having those other.

Those awful thoughts that are happening just before those last couple of miles. 

Yeah. Well, and and isn't it interesting how, you kind of go through these, those lags, but then. Second and third and fourth winds will kick in. It's just really interesting, particularly in the physical side of things, how your body, you know, for will be suffering and all of a sudden something kicks in.

I sometimes it's a mental, um, something mental that motivates you sometimes, I don't know, just somehow your body's. Beginning to convert more glucose, but um, then all of a sudden you're, you're, you're feeling, you're feeling great. But you, you probably, if it's an endurance thing, you'll hit another wall later on.

So, 

yeah, for sure. 

Yeah. 

So Andy, I would love to hear what some of your favorite hikes are near Wenatchee, and you can define near however you want to because you're the one answering the question,

 You wouldn't know this Andy, 'cause we didn't talk about it before. So I will tell you that on this podcast, we really only have one rule and it's my rule. Because it was my idea to start. I have no 

say in this answer 

and the rule, so Craig, if you wanted to do it, you had to go with this rule. The rule is that we do not use the word easy to describe a hike.

Okay, 

Andy 

Tie, 

if you wanna use, 

so instead you could say something like, this hike is shorter than most, or This hike is pretty flat, or. This hike is so amazing. You won't know that you're walking. Whatever. 

Okay. 

Okay. I've had to agree to this. I feel it's not fair to ask you that question without telling you the one goal.

Okay. So tell us, uh, lay it on us. 

Well, I can't, I can't, uh, list too many things or my friends will be angry at me for giving, uh, letting the cats out of the bag. But 

yes, you can keep some holdbacks, of course. Just tell us a few favorites. 



It gets bonus points for being something I can walk to or bicycle to.

. I, I live adjacent to the Sage Hills in Wenatchee.

The sage hills are part of the foothills that are immediately west of the town, city limits, we're flanked on the west side of Wenatchee. By the horse Lake reserve area, farther to the north, the sage hills that are kind of in the middle. And then, , castle rock, just a little bit farther south and saddle rock farther, farther south still.

So all of those parcels of land intersect each other or they abut each other. But locally we. Refer to them by those names it's quite a network of trails in there. Now. It, when I first moved here, they were mainly game trails that went through the area.

There was one. A trail that mountain bikers had scratched into the area. And to me it, you know, it was like, well. I've found this great area and that I can wander through it. I've got game trails to follow. Um, and it's, I can walk to it from home. What, what could be better than that? Well, the area over time has developed a, a nice network of trails.

I just find it particularly beautiful, uh, in different times of the year because just what's happening in the spring, the wild flowers come out. The balsam roots are gonna be blooming in profuse. The lupin will be blooming wandering through these. Wild flowers, just, you know, hills and hills of wild flowers. It's gorgeous. In the summer they're kind of stark. Everything burns off. The hills are brown. But I still, , I'll get out early in the morning or late in the day and the light slow there and the hills across the way from us all start getting these deep.

Shadows and, watching the interplay of the shadows across from me is gorgeous. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And then in fall, everything starts getting this, the light slower, uh, you get more gold in the light. The grasses are gold and. I don't know. It is just because the light is prettier. Uh, you know, it's again, gorgeous to me for a different reason.

Yeah. 

And it used to be, uh, gorgeous in the winter because I could go back there and ski. The area is now closed in winter as mule deer habitat. 

Ah, okay. 

And it closes from, uh, the 1st of December until the 1st of April, during that period.

So anyway, for people who are coming over to come if they put the Sage hills, trailhead. Into their, uh, into their Google maps. It, it would take them to where they can park and then 

Yep. 

There are any number of trails and then you kind of, the great thing for visitors is the area's not well signed, but if you get.

If you look at, uh, Gaia or Cal Topo, any of those types of, of map resources, you can easily figure out a nice loop trail to do. And even if things aren't. You really can't get lost very deeply back there. It's all open country. You can see the city. Uh, yeah. You may not end up back at your car quite the way you thought you were going to.

Yes. . So 

you 

might, you could get back to town even if it's not where you 

put. That's right. 

Yeah. My brand new day Hiking Central Cascade Second Edition has. All those places. You mentioned Andy in there. So all with maps and directions and so just the hikes and it is one of my absolutely favorite places too.

And yeah, I don't live in Wenatchee, but what's great when I stay in Wenatchee, these places are extremely close. You can take a bus, walk, bike, drive these areas, so you're not gonna waste any time on your days while you're there and just go running or biking or hiking. Right, right out your door there. And all those things you say are true.

The flowers, they're. Really when it is one of its most spectacular places, come late April, may, it's gold and purple. The hills are incredible. I know a lot of hikers and runners who look forward to just, , that window of seeing these hillside just in purple and yellow.

It is just absolutely gorgeous. That could have easily been houses all the way up and, and again. Because of the land trust and some, you know, other utilities and everything. The foresight to protect that,

it, it really makes Wenatchee such a special place. 

Yeah. And from that standpoint, Craig, um, you know, it, it, I always enjoy, uh. Being in the sage hills and then looking across the valley. And if you look kind of north across the valley, uh, over towards the Eagle Rock area, that was an area that was not protected.

And so homes have spread up the hillside there. It's a very pretty area in its own respect, but you know, there's a lot of homes on one acre, five acre parcels, and we've lost the ability to go and be able to. To enjoy that area from the public standpoint. 



So to be able to see, you know, um, let's infill the city and let. Create denser housing within the city or within the urban growth area, but being able to protect the, um, the wildlands that's still above the city and particularly, you know, we see that now on the west side of Wenatchee.

We have just such a valuable resource now that everyone can use.

Well, and, and the other thing too, and this is, and this is really important, um, that a lot of this building's going on in fire zones.

And as we're right, fires are becoming more intense here. And so you've gotta look at that. Two, it's just the wisest place to build, even if you don't really care about deer habitat. Yeah. Like, you may lose your home, you know? 

Yeah. 

It is super, uh, super important, uh, point that you make there. If we keep the hills. It's just so much easier to build fire resistant homes next to the, to the interface.

, Be able to protect the homes that we have built rather than having this checkerboard of homes out, into, out, into the interface that, uh, you know, to protect those from, from the wildfire stand standpoint, it's just a extremely difficult task. , I think, the western side of Wenatchee much more fire resistance and resiliency.

It's a great, it's a great benefit from that standpoint that the, the Land Trust has provided the city as well. 

Yeah.

But, but before you go, Andy, just a little, uh, preview of the 75 that's coming down. Okay. So what can we expect that's, that you're gonna get for your new challenges here or goals? 

Well, I, I have this, uh, a category of things I like to do called stupid fun

some examples of stupid fun would be swimming with the salmon in October when they're spawning and going out and, well, they're not sharks.

That's okay. 

Or, a number of years ago I. Uh, went up into the enchantments on a day trip and rather than just kinda walking through, the idea was to swim in every lake as you went through. And so that's a project. I'm kind of looking at, how to have sort of 75 stupid fun endeavors.

, That's one idea. And another idea is just, trying to come up with, something. You know, I'm pretty passionate about the problems that climate change is bringing on, and so trying to figure out 75 outings that somehow, uh, illustrate the issues that we're having with climate change. And then trying to work with someone or an organization that's trying to make progress in that area.

So trying to partner with someone that is also working on this on a larger scale basis, but at the same time bringing attention to the issue. , So I'm kind of playing with that one too.

So 

something will happen. I love all of those. I can't wait to hear what you decide to do.

Well, Andy, it has been so wonderful having you with us and sharing all your wisdom from all your years on the trail, but especially some of your favorites in Wenatchee. So thank you so much.

Very fun talking with you guys. No problem. , For people who are coming over,, to get on to wenatchee outdoors.org. Yes. 

Yep. 

It's a super deep well of information about what we have in the area and get into the guidebook sections and in the hiking guidebook there will be over a hundred.

Different hikes you can do in the area. If you get into the guidebook on mountain bikes, there's over a hundred different rides you can do. Yeah. Et cetera, et cetera. Whether you're a back country skier, a whitewater paddler, or a Flatwater paddler. Yeah. Uh, the guidebooks are really, really good and they have maps and all the how to information.

So 

yeah. 

Another resource along with Craig's books. 

Yes. Those are really good. 

And I've used Wenatchee Outdoors. Yes, 

me 

too. They're, they're compatible with my book. It's between those two sources. You're, you're good to go. 

You definitely will not get lost behind the scenes. 

You better not. If you do, it's gonna be a wonderful adventure.

So thank you. 

Oh, thank you so much, Andy. 

Fun being with you both. 

Likewise, 

I.

 if you are enjoying the Washington State Hiking Podcast, Craig and I would love to have you leave us a rating and a review that helps other people find us. And if you wanna support us financially, you can leave us a tip through the show notes. No account, no commitment, nothing like that. Thank you so much for listening and see you next week.