Hiking with Disabilities with Coach April Katz

Coach April Katz joins Jennie and Craig to share resources for hikers with disabilities and how hikers without disabilities can support hikers with disabilities on the trail.

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, and I'm your co-host Craig Romano. Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive. Our sponsor for the month of July is Bellingham and Whatcom County situated between Seattle and Vancouver bc. The vibrant college town of Bellingham, Washington boast trails for every taste and skill level. Find urban trails in the heart of town for a car free visit or take a scenic drive to the nearby Chuck Nut Mountains. For Alpine Vistas, head into the Mount Baker wilderness or stunning North Cascades National Park. No matter where you begin, you'll always end somewhere unforgettable. Learn more@bellingham.org. Thank you so much, Bellingham and Whatcom County for being our sponsors for the month of July. Our guest today is April Katz, and April is a coach and advocate for people with disabilities in Washam, Whatcom County and Washington, and indeed, really everywhere, particularly in the outdoors and enjoying the. The kinds of things that we talk about on this podcast, like hiking and other things as well. So April, thank you so much for being here today. Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. Awesome. Happy to have you. We're happy to have you on on the program. Yeah. Yeah. So can you start by telling everyone a little bit about how you came into this work and a little bit about what your work is? Yeah. Um, well everyone, my name is April Katz and I am known as this adventure coach. Um, and that is empowering everyone to experience epic adventures. Um, I am an individual that is neuro divergent, and when you move your body, it is the most healing thing for those with A DHD and autism. And so, um, I've been in the field for 20 plus years and it's in the last six years that hiking and being on dirt trails has been the most healing and rewarding thing I've ever experienced. And also, um, I am one year in 172 days of no alcohol. Um, and , pairing it up to hiking and backpacking and just seeing these beautiful places that the state of Washington has, um, it's been incredible and epic adventures, endless epic adventures. Amazing. Congratulations April you. That is a big deal. Love it. Thanks. Well done. So can you talk a little bit about some of the needs that people have that you have observed over this 20 plus years? And then, we'll, we'll kind of get into more after that, but let's talk about some of the things that come up for folks first. Yeah. So, um. Let's, so about six years ago here in Whatcom County, I noticed that a lot of the disability community, um, we have phenomenal programs here. Um, but one of the biggest things is how to. To give them resources, how to help, how to explain what is accessible, what is not accessible trails. And actually in Whatcom County, in our downtown, most of the hikes are accessible. Um, and do you mean, do you mean wheelchair accessible? Yeah, wheelchair accessible. Um, there's not gravel, there is gravel That's horrible at Waypoint Park. Um. And we'll get there and working on that. But like it is, you know, Fairhaven Park, Boulevard Park, um, we got new Cordata is this like beautiful, um, park that has a nice loop. Um, and it is compact gravel. So, um. It's, it's, it's one of my favorite places here in Whatcom County and Beautiful. And then you have Wacom Falls where you can just park and literally go down the mount, uh, ramp. And the waterfall is just right there. Um, yeah, it's real pretty and it is really beautiful. And so that's how it all started. It was just, um, a, a couple of kids, um, I'm a, worked at a A BA clinic, um, applied behavior analysis and that's where I found out that those with autism love geocaching and so cool. And why is that? It's because it is an engaged like app. If you wanna use an app. Or you can, um, check it off the list. I sometimes get really creative and hide things, um, if I have a session. But it is the most engaging way to keep those that are on the spectrum, like really engaged rather than saying, Hey, I'm bored. Where are we going? Like, where's the endless, like, where do we stop? Mm-hmm. And for them, it's like when they see that visual map. I'm showing them clues and all that. Then, uh, it's been, that has been my favorite thing, um, to do and it's, uh, really cool. And so with that, uh, that's where the, um, adaptive equipment came in. And so I am reaching out to like outdoors for all. There's a really great, um. Ben, Oregon, this guy created a venture chair. It's a wheelchair accessible chair that I got to experience in St. Helen's . Um, so yeah, it, and so those partnerships, it's like really cool to call them if I do need to get to North Cascades. Institute, um, or anything that I do know, there's, there's options and that's what's so cool in the last five years that I just seen a boom in, this adaptive equipment. So it's, interesting you said it because likewise, you know, I've been in the outdoors for a long, long time and just in the last. Decade. Particular. Really it's, it's part of the plan. And you talk about that adventure chair, I would, I first caught when out in Florida of all places, which makes sense because of the age issues, a lot of accessibility. That adventure chair that allows people that are not mobile, that can go out to the beach and, and very, very cool. And I believe, I don't wanna be quite. I think Washington State Parks is in the process of acquiring something like this as well. So you're seeing more and more of this is occurring to get people outdoors. You're also seeing new parks, like you mentioned at Cordata. Same thing. We're working on a new park here in Skagit County. That's very much. It's gonna make it accessible. It's part of their, their plan. Yeah. A lot of the play equipment you're seeing more play equipment now that's taking into consideration, uh, children with different, you know, perceptions and with the sounds and everything. So I think we're, we're finally, waking up on this, which is amazing. But when you think about it, the whole a DA act, uh, that, that didn't even come to be until what, 1990? 1991? Yeah. So, uh, amazing piece of legislation too, by the way. , It's great to, to see that this is, you know, that. People from all over are taking the cleaning plants. And then you just mentioned, um, Washington State Parks and I went on a project with them like two years ago, and it was so cool that they're created an app that's really accessible for those that are visually impaired, that, um, wanna know what the a DA, you know, accommodations are. They have it listed now. Um, the trails that are like really people are. Um, after the pandemic, I've seen it. We're craving community and I think a lot of outdoor recreation people are finally getting it. And it's been one awesome journey that I've been on. Um, yeah. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Yeah. What's probably driving a lot of this too, and I've thought about you seeing, because you've got this huge demographic, the baby boomers that, um, have grown up being active outdoors. They're into their seventies and eighties now, and their mobility is, is going down and they still very much wanna connect to that. So I'm, I'm sure a lot of that is driving a lot of getting, keeping these outdoors accessible. It, it's benefiting society as a whole and it's getting people to start thinking about, and, and that's what you have to do. Those of us who are able bodied and all, you have to, you know, I, I think we realize sometimes the smallest things, , that make a huge difference about getting more people out there. Um, yeah. Yeah. April, can you talk a little bit too, and you touched on this when you were talking about geocaching and autism, can you touch a little bit on some of the things, um, to be aware of for people that may have invisible disabilities? So I think a lot of times. When able-bodied people think about people with disabilities, they think about someone in a wheelchair, for example. And of course, it's super important for us to have spaces and trails that are accessible for people using wheelchairs. But also there's a, a lot of people that may have other challenges that are less, less obvious, um, to someone visually. So can you talk about some of the things that come up, um, in hiking or trails? Yeah. That, that can be a challenge for folks. Um, one of the biggest things that, um, working with those with autism and is just. I have noticed the joy and the happiness that they have the opportunity to, to do this. They're, um, you think about youth who I primarily work with, they go from, you know, eight 30 to two o'clock, six hours at school. Then after school they're going to ot, PT to speech pathology, you name it. And, and then. It's Pacific Northwest, so sometimes in the winter there's, they don't get outside. And so there's been this huge push of like giving and, and OTs are doing it where we're meeting at parks, um, we're, you know, giving them that opportunity to enjoy sunshine because we all need it. Um, but one of the biggest, uh, things that we are struggling with is just. That it's like when we're on the trail is a lot of individuals don't know what left and right is. So if you're a cyclist, like I hear it. I hear them coming, and I'll literally turn around and I'll be like, he doesn't know left or right. Like, yeah, yeah. This last summer and we were on this huge hike, lake Ann with an individual non-speaking, um, gentleman, and you guys it is boulder's walk rocks until you get up to the lake. And so it can get really narrow. And this individual tucks in his arms, , because that's his safety and that's, I have allowed him to do that. , But back to personal space. We're on this hike. And he has this vest, autistic, be kind. And it was wild to me that how people didn't move over off the trail. Mm-hmm. You know, like, it's like he,, and I would have to say that, , he doesn't know that. He doesn't know, um. He's gonna make some space. And I actually, last summer we were on the trails more and more and I'm like, we're making space for those that, we're here to bring some joy or like, I'll kind of spin it off. He deserves to be here or, yeah. You know, I really wanna start. With my social media to showcase like what is not okay and what is okay. Um, because another thing that has happened, um, while we're hiking with a couple of ladies that are on the autism spectrum, it's like. Where were we? Um, somewhere in Mount Baker in area, and we were hiking and like someone pulled over and just started clapping and was like, yay, you're doing it. Go. And then we're just like, why are you cheering us on? Like, what made us so different? Mm-hmm. And then it's like, oh, you just saw the hearing aid, you know, a cochlear implant. Yeah. Um, you, you're, you know, and so that is something where. My clients are trying to figure out why. Why do people do that? Why can't we just cheer each other on? Or like, hi, have a nice hike, or, yeah. Um, and so that is, you know, more that I'm on podcasts and more that I'm speaking about this, I think the community will know, but some people just don't know. Yeah. Um, and that's what I'm here for. I'm like, I'll tell you. Yeah. You know. Um, a few, a few. Well, a couple years ago, I think, Craig, we did an episode about like what to say to people on the trail. Just in general, you know? Yeah. Like, you know, and, and, uh, we, one of the things we talked about in that episode was a variety of reasons why people might feel a little out of place on a trail or. They will, when, when other hikers say certain things to them. Like, and, and, um, an excessive amount of encouragement is one of the things that we talked about. And the thing, and we talk and, and in defense to these people, and this is not to, to, uh, justify, I, I truly think, and, and maybe you do April, April as well, is that a lot of people, they, they don't know or, or, or they, they feel awkward and so they really think the clapping. Was good. Uh, and of course if, if people had, you know, um. Noise issues and everything that could be overwhelming. And, and, and it's hard. And I think, and of course, so your default should always be to kind of err on the not to do something like that side. But some people, and I've encountered this and I know Jenny, I'm sure you have it, we just kind of, they think they're doing the right thing or, or re responding. Many people will realize and like, oh, I never thought of that. Just like, um, I think for the folks they're, they're starting to see more people of all different backgrounds. I, I I in our public spaces now, and they're just not used to that. You know, it's kinda like, it, it's crazy, uh, that people are responding that way, but it's just because it's, they're outta their comfort zone and Right. And it's our, our job. To, to educate people, uh, and to make them aware, uh, and hopefully, and, you know, and keep this going forward, but yeah. Um, but yeah, it can be to use the modern vernacular cringe to see some of this stuff. Yeah. And I love what you said April. It's like, it's always, it's always a great day to say. Hi, have a great hike. Right. You're never gonna go wrong on that. No. It's a beautiful day. Or the lake is beautiful or, yep. And that's kind of how, just ahead or whatever. Yeah. 'cause I'm always the ones that, you know, the first one that reaches to that person and it's kind of like. Now I just got the hang of just saying, what a beautiful place, like what, you know, and so it just distracts them while my other crew is kind of coming up. So, yeah. Um, but what's one cool thing about that? In the last couple of months that this big boom of learning and resources, um, Alpine Institute, um, hired me to train and, um, talk to their volunteers about individuals with disabilities and to showcase like about that, like how to change the language, um, and make it more accessible and, um. And so I'm really ex excited about that and to help them strengthen this, um, the program as well as like wild welcome here in, um, Whatcom County. And then we have Camp Horizon. So it's like this, um, inclusion specialist that I've been coming. And I absolutely love it because, um, like I said, the outdoor. Um, recreation companies like Back Country's Essentials, our, our local store. They are like all for, they do these challenges for a hike challenge, but you know, they've messaged me, you know, what, what is accessible, what is a great hike, what is not, what is challenging? Um, so we're all like working together and I love it. Yeah. Big shout out for back Country Essentials. I've, I've known them for years. Uh, great organization. They're definitely worth, you know, checking out if you're in the area. And, um, yeah. So it's glad to hear that. And they got a new space and it's bigger. Yes. I know. I, I did a talk there last year. It's beautiful, the new space. I love it. Yeah. Where, um, either April or Craig, can you say where it is? Yeah, it's on North State Street, um, across to Bellingham from Max. Yeah. In Bellingham. Cool. Um, center is like our, um, di disabled center here in Bellingham,, for adults with disabilities. And so, um, it's right next to Vital, which is a rock climbing wall. It's like all in one street. Um, yep. And so for me, when I work. I cross the street and I go spend money. Yeah. Yes. It's always, and you're walking distance. Some great restaurants afterwards too. Yep. Yeah. Love that still. So, April, are there any, um, other than some of the things that we've already talked about, are there any, um. Other resources that you'd recommend for people with any kind of disability who are looking to find ways to get outdoors and, you know, understanding there's a wide variety of needs that person might have. Yeah. Other than what we've talked about, is there anything else that you'd really call out as a good resource for folks? Yeah, so one of the biggest, um. Things that I use, um, of course when you're planning a hike is jump on these Washington trails, um, apps, um, any trail app really get to know, um, if it's muddy, that's gonna help you be successful. Um, and for those that I work with, um, are on the autism spectrum and that's huge. Um, you know, we're not really working on the equipment side of things, but. Walking in mud and when you're gate in your walk, um, that's huge. Um, so that is one, uh, outdoors for all in Seattle, even though they're in Seattle, they're willing, they have little satellites. Um, Wenatchee, they got, um, sometimes come up to Skagit County. Um, and they're more, uh, they don't have any, like the venture chair. Um. To, but, uh, I do know that's a great resource because as far as funding scholarships, um, outdoors, I don't know what they can offer, but they do have, um, a great scholarship. Um. Opportunities. And so I would check in with that. But also the Washington State parks have done phenomenal, like with the campsites. Um, and so they're really, uh, great about if you call them and check in. Uh, and then the fer. Washington State Ferries, um, has a cool thing as if you're a caregiver for those with disabilities, you get a discount from your ferry ticket, but also they're just willing to like, give you a quiet space. We've been there, um, and it's been so helpful. Uh, it's just one call away., I would really encourage just to ask. It doesn't hurt. Um, and that's kind of what, these last six years of being really deep into this work, um, we learn together if we can't figure it out. . I was gonna call out, an author book that I reviewed, uh, a while back. So, uh, it's called The Disabled Hiker's Guide to Western Washington, Oregon. It's a great guide. It's, it's, uh, by Falcon Publishing and, It's not that old. I said, I reviewed it a little while ago. I think it's a good, good resource. Yeah. Um, definitely check that out. And then, , my urban trail books, um, I, I mentioned, uh. In all of them if trails are accessible, a lot of the pave trails, everything. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, definitely look at some of those sources because a lot of your, sometimes a lot of your apps, they're not that specific on that. And, and yeah. Or, or what they consider to be, uh, accessible is not. So, yeah. I agree. Craig, that's an excellent book. I was also gonna mention going to what you said April about the Washington Trails Association. Mm-hmm. Um. The. You can filter for different, like keywords and things. Yeah. So if, if something is of a particular concern for you personally, like stairs or mud mm-hmm. Or something like that. Um. I know number one, people sometimes include that in their trip reports and you can filter it, but also WTA is really working on including more information. So instead of just of saying like, this trail is wheelchair accessible or not, I know there, you know, Craig and I have both done volunteer writing for them and they are trying to focus on things like instead of saying that, say. The trail is flat and this wide, right? Or this is what the surface is. Or mostly it's flat and gravel and well packed. But then there's one place where there's like this route sticking up or super infuriating is like where there's like a gate that you mm-hmm. Like the trails wheelchair accessible, but you can't get through the gate. Right. So they're really working on including, and it is more of that kind of information. So thank you for bringing that up, because there is a map, uh, there is an app that's been in, works with WTAU, uh, university of um, Western University and myself. Um, we act, it's called Access Map. Oh, cool. It is a map to kind of talk about the grade of like the incline, um, and all that, but it all came off of this no driving week. Um, in October, it's like the end of September through October, and we found out that those with disability, that is their primary transportation. City transportation. And so this access, MAP app, it's like I'm really excited to showcase like what is, when the snow falls, like what is cleared and what's not. , And so I'm excited about, , to showcase that. So, oh, that'll be really cool. Yeah, you have to let us know when that, when it's live. That'll be really cool. Yes, I'll, yeah. So April, what about, what about folks who don't have a disability? Um, how, how can folks in that situation envo, avoid kind of ableist problems or advocate for people with disabilities and making sure that everyone can enjoy their time outside? What are some suggestions that you have there? Um, one of like, 'cause I work with youth, um, one of my biggest things that I really wish and we can all work together on this, is when we're on a playground and those with autism are flapping and this and that. Like, let your kid understand what autism is. Let them understand what a disability is. It starts with the parents, it starts with the caregiver, and that's how I really think it's in a, ripple effect. Unfortunately, uh, we're in 2026 and I, it's really sad of how distant and this like stigma like that those with autism don't wanna be loved or infectious or eye contact or any of that. That is so false. They are so craving relationships, friends. Mm-hmm. They love the opportunity to, to, they might split out all the dinosaur like facts about this dyno. Or, but that's okay. And that's for you to teach your kid, like, cool, listen to it, take the information, and then go and do what, what you need to do with it. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm glad you said, you know, being so I have a, despite my age, I have a young son and, um, we go hiking and running together and exactly what we'll encounter. Uh, a child who's somewhere on the, on the spectral oral. And my son will see me interact in Hi with this person. And then he'll look at me like, dad, like, what's, and he knows. So, and we talk about, you know, you know, these things. It doesn't mean, you know, we could still, the one person particularly encounter all the time on a regular run. He's starting to learn now. And at first he was like totally, uh, just uncomfortable. And then realizing. You know where this person's at and find, and, and you're right, you have to have these conversations. Um, your kids are gonna ask you things. They see it and, and, and, and realize these people are part of your community. You know? Yeah. We're, we're gonna stop and talk and engage just like we would any other person, uh, you know, and to understand these behaviors and everything. And again, that's part 'cause there's no excuse for that. Now, again, when I was growing up, you know, these people were hushed away from our society and our schools and everything. So a lot of people were not rubbing shoulders with them. And now. There's no, no excuse not to, to uh, to understand. Yeah. And, and that's what's so cool about backpacking and like these trails that I've been on with my clients is, you know, they are still isolated in the school district. Like they are still special ed classrooms, but I'll never forget, um, I had a 14-year-old boy, um, we went hiking and then his parents met us at the campsite. So, um. I did the trail with him we're all on, um, Watson Lake and there were, um, boy Scouts on this trail and they were on the same age, and they were like, you're on the trail, like you're here. And the individual with autism was like, why not? And it was like, so cool. And they took off. And they, like all hiked, finished the hike together. We were all at the lake together. Um, and because of that, it started a friendship and the boy is no long. He has where he goes and plays football with these boys soccer during recess. It's like he. Just a higher functioning individual with autism that's during school. It's hard. It's challenging. I'm an individual that's came from special ed school's. The most challenging thing when you're having Yeah. Disability. Yeah. Or so much is going on in your brain. And then I think that's why outdoor is so healing because we're moving and we're getting that dopamine that's, that's really engaging. And then, um. On my journey. It's like so many of us with a DHD think alcohol is that good, but it isn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love to, you know, one thing that's so cool about the outdoors is kind of unstructured, right? Mm-hmm. Compared to school. So yeah, you're outside, you're getting air, you're getting sun, you're getting all the good things, but also you're just. You know, you're not having, there's not like 8 million rules about where you can be and what you can do and how long you're gonna sit in this chair. And, and so I think that. I imagine that would also be very healing. The trees aren't judging you, they're not giving you funny looks. You know, you, you can feel comfortable like you blah, and, and you can be yourself again. It's kinda like the old memes about, you know, dancing like nobody's watching and that kind of stuff. Yeah. But out there, you know, uh, so yeah, I mean the, the outdoors are incredibly liberating and as you mentioned before, I mean schools, when you think about it, even. Some of the schools are more progressive, just the, because of the dynamics to conform. I mean, just on, on anything to conform. And if you, and if you don't feel like you belong in the slightest, you, you're, you're, you're ostracized, whether it's by the group or just in your own mind and, and Right. And it's, and it's very difficult. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, but one of the coolest things that I'm experienced also during this whole cool journey is that with the community, um. So now we're getting ready for summer. We have backpacking trips coming up, but also strength training them into the gym. And so there's a local gym here called Training Grounds, and if they're training with any individual with disability, if they're training. With me, they have a free membership. Oh, that's awesome. So cool. So we gotta, where we're really getting these, um, these kids, they're all kids, uh, that I have, um, some trips. We got Watson Lake coming up, in, and then one of our biggest is second, um, beach, oh yeah. National Park. Yeah. That's in August. Uh, and then we. Or just really wanna just start branching off on of all these, uh, backpacking trips, but also paired up with strength training. So I am really excited. That's so cool about that. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. So April, um, what are some of your favorite hiking trails? Oh, we always like to ask people who are guests that, because then we get new ideas and things that Craig and I maybe haven't done or just don't think of. So I'd love to know what you would say. So I, um. I'm a water baby, so I love to hike to lakes. Like I, it's just so much freedom in there and, but I don't care how cold the lakes are. I will jump in it, but one of my, one of those you go, you, one of my beautiful hikes that I had last September, um, was Chain Lakes. I'll never forget that. It was, we've talked about chain lakes on this program. Yeah. It's uh. It's like at the very end. And the little incline is a little nastiness. But then, um, but I got to, it was like 75 degrees outside and I got to do every lake. Wow. That must have taking you some time. It was, so it took, I was on that, I think I left at like. Got up there at 8:00 AM it was like, and then I didn't leave until like 8:00 PM There's a lot of lights on that chain. 'cause I was like, so, so submerged. Like I just loved it literally. Um, literally. And then, uh, uh, other one of my favorite in town, I'm probably there on the trails, um, is Whatcom Falls. Yeah. It's just beautiful. You can go. Park from like, um, let's see here. Donovan, uh, oh my God. Bode. Yeah. Bodel Donovan. There we go. Um, you can park on that side and go and check out this cool pond ducks, and then get the waterfall. You can park. Right near the waterfall, you can park on the upper side. Um, and then the cool thing is I love, I'm empowered by snacks. I love snacks, and across the street is the best donut shop. And so I kind of pair that up with Yes. Yeah. Um, there's very few things that go as well with hiking as donuts do. Yes. Um, and so yeah, I love that. And then. A hundred acre woods here in Fairhaven Park. Um, that is my favorite. Uh, I do a geo cash with, um, a couple of my youth, but we do Winnie the Pooh, uh, I cut out a hundred acres. Yeah, exactly. You, you know, you do your mill. Mm-hmm. And we gotta go find all them. And they love it. They're, it's really. Um, there is an incline. I wish that trail was more accessible. It is not. So, um, there's too many roots, um, and it's, it's pretty up there. But if you do wanna get like portion of the a hundred acre, um, like, uh, trails, it is accessible, um, from Fairhaven about a mile in, you'll cross the bridge and then you can kind of. Um, do build a fort. Um, that's all fun. Nice. That's awesome. And fun. And, and then like, I've been there with two of my wheelchair, um, folks and so I made the best of it. Um, yeah. And then you, yeah, I can keep on talking about, 'cause then you got Birch Bay, you got the state park up there. Oh. Um. And then Cordata, uh, cordata, uh, park, like I just mentioned earlier. So, um, you, you were talking about Birch Bay. The, the semi spit is a paved trail. Uh, Fanta, it's spectacular. Mm-hmm. That's a great one. And that is a, such a great one. Um, but the Birch State Park, they like, I think the Washington State Parks have done a phenomenal job on saying, Hey, um. We don't have the map. Like there's a map that goes out to the beach. Yeah. It's like they're working on it. They're like trying to figure out funding. Um, and from, you know, I moved out here 12 years ago and it wasn't accessible. There was no buttons on the restrooms for the doors to be, you know, 88. But now I just went. Last weekend and I was like amazed of how much improvement, moving tables, moving boulders, um, in these picnic areas. Um, and so they are listening. Um, and those are from reports that I do on my trail stuff. Um, or I just emailed them directly 'cause I do know the, um, the city really well. So, yeah. Love it. It's funny, it's funny you mentioned that, Matt, I mean. This morning, right before this program, I'm reading my hometown newspaper and a group in the town came up, they donated, they bought one of those mats for the town beach. And I never even thought of that because last time we think, oh, those are just nice ways to walk so we don't have to walk in hot sand. And, and I'm starting to see that more and more again. I mentioned Florida, the Florida State Park system is, is outta this world. Yeah. Um, when it comes to, and they, yeah, all their beaches, they have these incredible accessible trails that get you out into these beach areas and everything. Those chairs. Again, what you're saying too, seeing now more of the picnic areas, the campsites where you have accessible campsites, where you can get a chair in there and you're seeing so much more of this now, again, people are realizing, uh, this, and again, even with the government having funds cut. Yeah. In my hometown situation where it, it was private citizens that came together, we're gonna raise money and do this. So there's plenty of opportunities here to, to come together and make a difference. Yeah. Yep. And, and I've, I've seen it, you know, um, there was a huge polar plunge. Here in, uh, like world record Polar Punch January 1st. Yeah. Yeah. You read about that. That looked pretty awesome. Yeah, and we were trying to get that Matt, but unfortunately there's a lot of digging and, you know, to secure it. But it really started the conversation of the community saying, Whatcom County. Hey, if we use the map for Birch Bay, use it for, um, you know, uh, Waypoint Park area where Northwest Tuneup is a bike, um, concert here. Um, and music that the gravel's horrible. But it was, it just sparked something between the, um, business and the commerce like. Now the start is about that. Like how do we all come together? And it's been, um, really exciting. I, I'm hoping, I do know in next two years, one of these beaches are in a habit because it's gonna be so cool. It's good and I have to mention it, but you're close enough too. And Jenny knows one of the places near and dear to my heart is spent a lot of time in. And I think this place is way ahead of us in so many places, British Columbia. So April, how, as we're getting ready to wrap, up for people who wanna follow along with your work, what is the best way for them to do that? Yeah, , coach April Kaz, coach april katz.com and then that's Katz, KATZ, or coach April Katz on Instagram. And then. My email is Coach April katz@gmail.com. Love it. I love coaching. Um, but I also like a be just giving them opportunities. Yeah. And that is the best, best gift I think, and my purpose in life. I'm like super excited. Yes, I know it's so. Wonderful having you and talking about this and um, yeah. So April, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for this opportunity and um, see, hope to see you in on the trails. Yes. Thank you again to visit Bellingham in Whatcom County for sponsoring us for the month of July. And if you are enjoying this podcast, we would love to have you give us a rating or a review. 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