Hiking the Oregon Coast Trail with Connie Soper

Jennie and Craig sit down with Connie Soper, author of Hiking the Oregon Coast Trail to talk about hiking the Oregon Coast trail in a series of day hikes and her process of hiking the whole trail and writing a guide.

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, and I'm your co-host Craig Romano. Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive. Our sponsor for the month of May is the Oregon Coast Visitors Association, OCVA. Partners with coastal communities to support thoughtful destination development and strong local partnerships guided by a shared vision of creating an enriched coastal experience for all. That means supporting local communities, welcoming new, and returning visitors and caring for the natural places that make the Oregon Coast so special. Start planning your trip today at visit the Oregon coast.com. I. Our guest today is Connie Soper, and Connie is the author of Exploring the Oregon Coast Trail, and we are talking about the Oregon Coast Trail today. So Connie, welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for being on the, on the program, Connie. So Connie, before we start, where's home for you? Are you on the Oregon coast? I am right now. Um, I, I have, I have a home in Manzanita, Oregon. And, but pri primarily I live in Portland. Manzanita's a great little town and, , when I first started exploring the Oregon coast and, and I came out here in the summer of 1989, I spent a couple nights in Manzanita because I had a friend that I worked back east with that. Anyways, I What a, what a wonderful area, and it's right, and, , it's borders the Oswald West State Park. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right. And what's amazing about the Oswald West State Park and Oswell West, and you know, we, we, we, we were going to, uh, the whole beginning of the Oregon Coast Trail and everything. Before I dive into your book and, and the coast, what, what, just, what is your background , as far as, how this all ties into how you got involved,, with writing a book on this? With the foundation, I believe too. Mm-hmm. We're gonna talk about the Oregon Coast Foundation, so just give us a little background on, on, on and yourself on here. Well, believe me, I'm not a professional trail guide rider. I never thought I'd write a tr a trail guide. Um, I, it all started when I hiked the trail, uh, 20 years ago , with some friends and family, and I couldn't find a guide that, uh, that's. At least it defined the, a trail, the way that we wanted to hike it, which was day by day, not as a through hike. And so I pieced together,, pieces of books, that I could find. I interviewed people, but basically I wrote up with just a little simple guide, for those of us doing the hike. And uh, people said to me, my friend said, you should write a book. And I said, I don't think so. But then I got engaged in, especially in learning more about the history of the Oregon coast and how Oregon has, happens to have public beaches of half. The Oregon Coast Trail was on the beach, and it's possible because all the beaches are public and, um. Other parts of it go through state parks and other, , state and county, city parks and through towns. So that's how I got involved is that I decided to, um, put it all together and I was, after I retired, I needed a project to work on. And it took me several years. To actually, and then I, because I decided I needed to hike the trail again, um, to, with A-G-P-S-I learned how to use the GPS and hired somebody to make maps. I just met a lot of great people and, um, who shared their information expertise. And, , you went to history centers and interviewed people, uh, involved in, um, involved in the trail from the get go. And that's how it happened. What I love about your book, I mean, there's a lot of things. Our listeners out there know I've written guidebooks. I know the whole process. I know what you went through as far as it's an incredible amount of work. And also know, and this is where,, I really appreciate my background is in history and what I loved about your book immediately, it's the history. And I was learning all these things, uh, about the trail , and , beach access and everything. And it brought so much to life. And I think, many, uh, trail, , beach hikers, uh, hikers in general, uh, might not be aware of., Just all the politics and the forces and all the dirty work to put something like this together. But what I found was most fascinating, I've always known that the Orkin is known for its public beach, public coast, it's incredible to look at, you look at a couple of the governors and, and their play, but what I didn't realize that landmark piece of legislation that that opened up pretty much the beach was based on Texas yeah. I think that would blow people away. 'cause we don't tend to think of Texas as being, um, progressive in environmental and legislation. And what, what I thought was also interesting is, is that the Texas coastline on the Gulf of Mexico, um, is almost, um. The same length as the Oregon coast. I thought that was kind of neat too. , So that was 1967 with, with, uh, to McCall right? When that legislation came through. But, but it goes back even farther over a hundred years ago with, with Oswald West, it was in Right. Didn't envision. Yeah. And, and, uh, I Do you want to maybe share some on these, um, visionaries, if you will, because this is so important, yeah, yeah. We know, or, and we're very fortunate that we had those two, uh, governors. The, in fact, I dedicated the, the book to them because we wouldn't be having, we wouldn't have or, uh, open, uh, beaches and public access if it weren't for them. And Oswald West, uh, first designated or got the legislature to designate the beaches as a public highway. And at the time there actually they, they actually were used as roads. And I have some pictures in the book of stage coaches and, other kinds of vehicles ca old cars because there was no, highway. I think it wasn't completed until the 1930s., That became, you know, part of the public domain, but it was only up to the median high tide line. And so then Tom McCall, uh, came in because, um, someone kind of challenged that and decided that they, that well, they could close a off access to the. Upper part of the beach, the, the dry sand part of the beach. And that's when the beach bill came in. And, so the dry sands or the upper sands up to the vegetation line is declared public access as a recreational, I forget the exact term, recreational easement maybe. , It's not owned by the public, but it's been designated as the public easement. So those two pieces of legislation have, have made it possible. We have full access to the, to the beaches. That's wonderful. So how did the whole idea of, of the trail come? Because, anyone who's spent any time. Oregon coast, you know? Yeah. You can walk the beach, but you're not gonna ha it's not like walking Florida. We can go, you know, 20 miles continuously on sand beach. There's gonna be headlands and river crossings and everything else. So, who came up with this whole idea of a trail, in essence of, of the entire coastline. , There was somebody who did a lot of research about possibly having. A through trail and he, I think, convinced the, the state, the state of Oregon parks took it on as, as a project. And they, uh, they officially oversee the trail and it's been, it an officially designated, um, trail over 50 years., Little by little, um, it's been added to, but there are still, as I'm sure we'll talk about some gaps, but it, you know, it was a customer of a combination of, uh, interested citizens and, and the state, uh, parks department who actually made it a reality. In 1959, and then it was in the seventies, like you said. Um, so over 50 years, the concept. The idea to have an actual trail because as it stands now to walk the official Oregon state, uh, the Oregon Coast Trail, there's a lot of road walking involved. And, and that's where the challenge, the challenges are. So did the foundation come about to, by public land or to, to build the trail or what is the role of the foundation in, in, as far as the trail? How did that all come about? The, the or the, you're asking about the foundation, the Oregon Coast Trail Foundation? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, about, so, so about 10%. Of the, of the, uh, trail, which is roughly 400 miles in length. Three, it depend depending on how you walk it, but there's about between 30 and 40 miles that are required to be walked along the shoulder of Highway 1 0 1 or on some other street without pedestrian access. I couldn't figure out why there hadn't been more, um. Advocacy to try to complete the trail 'cause it's such a wonderful experience. But that is just not pleasant to walk along the, highway along the shoulder of the highway. I set up my hikes to avoid that, but not everybody can, if they're a through hiker, they don't have, uh, two cars. You now, then you have to have a shuttle and it gets more complicated. But anyway, um. I, um, and I point those sections out in the book of where there are gaps and, I worked with some other advocates to introduce legislation. Um, I wanna say it's been probably maybe 2000, maybe, I think it's been about seven years now to, uh, uh, develop a, what we call an action plan. I, we didn't wanna call it a. Feasibility city 'cause it's feasible to do it, but an action plan to identify where, where there are gaps and what are some potential solutions. And that was passed by the legislation. There was no, you know, no funding involved with it. And it's taken a while and then COVID came and there were layoffs and it's, you really, um, taken a long time and. And I'll be honest, I'm, I'm disappointed that there hasn't been more that's happened, , to, really come up with a, with so solutions because I think there are some that aren't that complicated. And, a really great partner has been the Oregon Department of Transportation, odot and, , there are examples of where ODOT right of way. Right next to the highway. I mean, it's not the most scenic or the best solution, but at least you're not on the highway and, they're, , a very valuable partner. It's been slow going, trying to get the administrative structure and off the ground. Um, so the Oregon Coast Trail Foundation, one of the great partners for the Oregon Coast Trail has been. Afa or the Oregon Coast Visitors Association, and they have adopted the trail as one of their signature projects. Their role is to promote tourism along the coast. And that's their, that's one of their primary interests in, in the trail. Um, but, you know, there, there are other benefits too. The trail as well, and from a health and wellness perspective and, for local access to recreation, you don't have to walk the whole trail to, to benefit from it. To build these trail networks. It involves a, a consortium, so many, um, private part of the public business, the whole thing, bringing 'em all, all together. And what's interesting too is you say , our sponsor the Oregon Coast Visitors Association, um, that they were a driving force in, and it, and it makes sense and in so many ways when nuclear international parks, um, this and the railroads were, were, you know, to increase tourism to preserve an area because again, it's good for the economy, it's good for the, the, you know, the people that live here. Obviously it's good for the environment. We should emphasize here too, the Oregon Coast Trail, most people, even if it was continuous for 360, 7380 miles. Don't have the means or, or, you know, or, um, the desire to do the entire thing as, as a through hike. That's, fine because this is the type of trail that is wonderful in pieces. And that's again, where your book comes into place because it divides everything up into sections and, and, , so with that said, you've done the whole thing, where do you think, and I'm not gonna ask your favorite, 'cause if you're like me, probably the whole thing is your favorite. I was gonna ask my favorite people always me that I expect, but you know, you, Craig, I'll hold that thought. People always ask what my favorite and, and, and though I, I know you hate it, but I love, love asking people anyway. I love, I love being out there and it, and it's all, uh. Conditional. You know, this is my favorite for, this is my favorite for that. So I'm not gonna ask you what's your favorite, what I'm gonna ask you, um, more so is that, you know, when people sometimes think of the or ghost, one of my jobs as a trail book author is getting people off the popular places. Sorry, everybody goes to Canon Beach. Everybody goes to see Cole. So, and they're great places, that's why they're popular. But what a lot of people don't realize, they're not like the shining stars always. There's amazing places that are out there that a lot of people, and again. I know people are gonna always get upset with me, like, why are you revealing my favorite places? But you have nothing. First of all, it's public land. You don't own it. It belongs to everybody. And the other thing is too, , people are still gonna go to the popular trails. So let's reveal some of these other interesting places for histor, you know, for history, , for beauty, for wildlife. Maybe it's a great place to see some, some critter that we, , that you found doing your research in the book. That were just maybe in total surprise that you had no idea that something like this existed, just, you know, came outta nowhere. So. You're right, I don't really have favorite places, but since I spend most of my time on the North Coast, and most people do because it's the closest, it's the Port coast in Portland. Yeah. The great thing about the North Coast is that it's pretty much completed. There's between the, um, the border with Washington at the. Uh, jetty at the Columbia River all the way, uh, to Garibaldi is pretty much completed. There's a few little stretches with minor road walking, but not bad at all. So, I mean, you can really get a sense and a feel for the trail. . For, and I don't know, I'd say maybe that's a hundred miles,, maybe a third of maybe not quite that long. And it's very, um, diverse. , It does include going over, , Tillamook Head, , which was, traversed by Lewis and Clark. And so there's a lot of history there. You go through great towns of Gerhart and Seaside and Cannon Beach and Arch Cape , and Manzanita. So there are a lot of opportunities to, you know, stop and enjoy the towns. , So you, for someone who's just, who. Who just wants to come out and hike for a day? That's not very complicated. The North Coast is, is, is pretty great. Um, I also, the, the further south you go, the more remote it becomes and the less populated. And especially if you're just go one or two miles from a, , access point, then, you know,, you could go all day without seeing anyone. A really special place? Is the Oregon Dunes, um, just south of Florence. Um, which as I talked a little bit, a bit about in my book, it almost became a national park. And it's too bad because it's, pretty unique and amazing and, um, you just feel like you're in another world and you just walk right through the dunes to get to the, to the beach. And once you do and start, and then start heading. South because. By the way, it's preferred to walk north to south. Most people do it that way. I mean, you can do it the other way, but, um, is that for the winds? The winds, the prevailing winds and other reasons too. And almost all the guidebooks are written that way anyway. So then once you get through the, through the dunes and , are back on the beach then very, very few people. And one of the most, , anywhere south of Bandon to all the way to the border is just beautiful. There are a lot of, um, seas stacks and you know, at low tide you're just kinda walking right bet right through. And then between them and the , Samuel Boardman corridor is an 11 mile. Kinda linear park all, all along the coast with, um, absolutely beautiful. And, it, once you get on the onto those beaches, they're very remote. And that park was named for the Oregon's first. Um. Park superintendent and he is, was responsible, especially during the depression for buying a lot of property that became state parks. We owe a lot of gratitude to him as well. And from what I understand, , nearly one third of the Oregon state. . Park system is on the coast. And, and a lot of that, uh, was probably from Boardman's legacy. And yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, he, he personally pieced together a lot of what's, um, used to be called short sands, uh, park now it's called, it was aimed after Oswald West. And, you know, it was put, he, it put together in bits and pieces that he, you know, people had to foreclose because it was a depression or he bought it or it was donated. And, you know, bit by bit it became what's now Oswald West State Park. Yeah. I've hiked most of the Oregon Trail in the North for all the reasons you said too, because, for Washington listeners, it's not very far to get over there. Here's a little geography. Know, uh, that may baffles some people. There are parts of Oregon that are farther north than Washington. So think about, so, you know, Portland is farther so south than Astoria and, and Long Beach. So it's close. That's, I guess that's the point I'm trying to make that in some cases Olympias just as close to get there as for, but those region, you've seen too great trail. You actually have real. Real bonafide trail, uh, signs in good shape, um, beautiful parks, lots of history. Uh, it's a stunning scenery. I absolutely, NeoCon Mountain is, is one of my favorites and probably thousands, millions of other people. The view, , looking south is just incredible there. It's a classic and, , if you're just basing, you have, you're, you're close to a lot of, lot of beach towns or places you can stay. I imagine, , if you are. On your own, are there, you, can you arrange for shuttles to be dropped off or at least an Uber in these areas? So if you pick me up and drop me off here, is that, is that a possibility too, to make this more accessible? Uh, sometimes I'm, I, I don't know the exact extent, but I personally have taken both bus public buses and, uh, a taxi, um, to or from, uh, to a trailhead anyway. In a town big enough, like, I think it was in Seaside, I took a taxi. And between Yaha and Walport, I took the public bus and, and mo most of the SY system, if you figure out the routing and the schedules, you can, , get a bus to help you out. Not everywhere. And it's not, you know, real frequent service like in a city, but it can be done. Yeah. As you're going down the coast, it's very, different. Uh, you get into the central area, you got, you got some wide, wide stretches of sandy beaches that they, they can walk. And then that southern coast is very much like. The California coast, I mean, just the mountains coming right down. The headlands Boardman. I remember first time my, my, actually, my first exposure to the Oregon coast coming up was Boardman. It was just, incredible coming into that area. And then you can hike my, like Humbug mountains, another one of my favorites in, in that area. And I remember the first time I did it, there was no view. Now it's all open now. Now you can get views, you can think windstorms and, and such, but, um. Lighthouses The WPA depression, era. Art deco, the beautiful, I, I, I remember being in Newport, running across the bridge. I love those bridges. They're absolutely spectacular. And I think we lost a couple, uh, because they couldn't rebuild them. But most of those bridges are still there coming up on, you know, almost a hundred years old. Yeah. Especially, especially the one in Newport and the one, uh, or, going into North Bend. And, and there are several bridges that you cross on on that are designed by Conde Macu. Tho those are my two favorite new, the Newport and his signature bridges is called named after him. The McCullough Bridge, right. The big one. Yeah. That and, and, and they all, they have, he purposely designed them with pedestrian access. Right. And some of them, including I think the one at Newport have little. Uh, little places you can, uh, veer off and, you know, stop and look at the view. And they do. Yes. Yeah. They're perfect for walking on the trail. So, yeah. In the Newport area, you're, you're going between a, a couple of state parks and get on that south beach again, the beautiful stretches. I mean, I, I, I love walking. Sand too. And, and I, that's, so you have those big stretches in that area of, of the Oregon coast, which is just wonderful. What about, um, and here's where things get tricky too, and I was reading the foundation, and this, of course it require, you need money and funding and, and those, uh, those things to be, and, and short, short, and it deals where parks and trails. But here's a, a, a definite area for private partner, uh, for private public partnerships. Pedestrian ferries to be able to get across some of those bays, like Tillamook Bay, you know, to make it work in the summer so that enough hikers are going across, they can be shuttled across some of these bays. Is there any talks about that or some of the river crossings and such? Well, there are some now and they really help a lot avoid, uh, highway walking and some are easier to access than others. There's one, uh, at the end of, where I am at Man's need, if you walk all the way down to the, to the Halem spit to the end, um, you can, there's a. , A fishery right across the bay, and you can call them on your cell phone and say, come get me. I love it for $10. They'll, haul you a across and it saves a lot of roadway walking and what a deal. $10, what a deal. And that new inhaler and then, and then just beautiful. And then you end up at this, you know, where they're crabbing and fishing, and you can have lunch there if you want. Continue your walk and then oth others. You have to, um, that one you do not have to arrange ahead. You can just call them and, um, well, I mean, it's kind of weather dependent, but I've never had any problem. I've done it several times. You can also take a boat from Garibaldi to, um, bay Ocean Spit that saves a lot of walking. Um, took, I took a boat from knee tars to the. Um, tard Spit, which takes you into Cape Lookout Park. That was just, we just, you know, found somebody who was willing to do it. It's nothing official. And also from the end of the dunes into Winchester Bay, that saved a lot of road walking, um, over the Qua River, I think it is. And, um. So I think those are the ones I can remember, but I wish that they would more formally incorporate the, uh, water crossings as part of the trail. Yeah. I mean, it's comp, it's complicated with, you know, the Coast Guard regulations Sure. And, and all of that. , You can't just set it up. But, it's something I'd like to see happen. And I, I think it'd be a huge draw too, and certainly for, for through hikers obviously, but even just section hikers day, you know, something really exciting about hiking and then being shuttled across a major waterway and estuary, something to continue your hike , it would be very, very unique for, for the part of the Oregon Trail to have this too, and, and to, to save a lot of those, those, those roadblocks and everything. And again, just being on the water Yeah. Adding that element and being closer to, to, to IC birds and marine mammals and everything, and seeing those views from the water. Connie, I mean, yeah. I wanna know. Craig likes to give me a hard time because I don't know anything about Oregon. Oh, I can't believe you just admitted this on this program. We gonna, no, we've talked about it several other times. Well, come on. Come on down. I out here for you to just. I know Craig has really helped me. Um, like it's not that I don't appreciate Oregon, I just, I just haven't spent much time there and I don't know it like I do Washington and it's a little embarrassing sometimes, but I, you know, everybody knows now. So Connie, for somebody like me Yeah. Who is real basic as a starting level of knowledge, I would love to know. So you might be able to see what I'm doing here. I'm trying to trick you into sharing a favorite. Um, for someone like me who hasn't spent a lot of time in Oregon, is there a particular section, either of the trail itself or of the coast that you're like, okay, you should go here. No. I mean, you should. I love it. You should. You should. You're good, Connie. I, there's, I'm not gonna be able to get to you. I can tell you should, you should see the whole thing. And, as I was saying, if for, a person who's new to, to Oregon or the coast, I, you know, I would say the most accessible and, you know, close by to where you are. And that's the, and that, that's a pretty developed. Trail system is the north, north part. Yeah. Okay. , The first 18 miles are pretty boring. It's, you start at the, at the jetty at the Columbia River, and I think it's 18 miles all on the beach until you get to Gearhart. Now, I recommend breaking that up 'cause there's like a, um, a parking lot where you can, you know, veer off and, , nine miles is my, my, the. The hikes in my book averaged 9.2 miles, um, a day. And to me that was about right. But then once you get past, uh, Gerhard, then you know, then you go into, you know, it gets fun. You go into through, you get to walk through the boardwalk at Seaside and see where Lewis and Clark made salt and uh, where they were miserable. They read about seaside's, the real highlight, you know, so maybe don't do it in November. No seaside. It is really unique. Yeah, I grew up on the East coast and, seeing Seaside is the closest thing to an east coast, beach town on the west coast. It's fun and,, and then so you can walk all, all along the boardwalk, you know, as part of the, the part of the trail experience and then go up over the mountain. And then, then you get into, uh, then you get into Ecola State Park and, um. Then that drops down into, then you get into Cannon Beach and mean, those are just really fun communities to explore and hang out in. So, uh mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you continue south from Cannon. Exactly. You go into Oswald West and you go to Nia, Connie Mountain, which is my, my favorite part of the north. And then to, to the new ha uh, spit, which is just spectacular looking at that, um, beautiful area. And, , it has. Sentimental values to me. 'cause it was one of the first places I spent time in that area too. But, but it's, it's such a, a beautiful area. , You really can't go wrong, you know, picking a place, just driving down the highway, I think I'll just stop. And that's traditionally what, what I've done over the years. Jenny, take a lesson here. When I'm traveling now, I've, you're not saying I've been there never. It's just compared to what I know about Washington. Well, what I do, not much. I spend a lot of time in California too. I'm sorry. Northwesterners. I, everybody knows that I, I love California. But usually what I do, I love California to you, but I also don't know that much about it, honestly. Well, , I love the Humboldt, I love the Redwood Coast, but when I, when I always go down there, I always make it a point because the Southern Oregon coast is so far from, I live, well, we're gonna add some days on to that side. And here's the other surprise for a lot of people, Oregon has a Redwood Coast. It's very, very small. Is it? So it's cool. There's some cool hikes that you can do. Um, redwood hikes in Oregon, and then can just the vegetation in general, the Myrtle Wood and all that, we don't have any of that in, in, in, on the Washington coast. You know, it's a transition. I mean, you get into that, that ordinary transition between California to Washington. Um. Lots of neat trees, uh, in that area that you're not gonna see even in the northern Oregon coast. So that, that southern coast is really special. Um, I also, Connie, something else I wanted to ask you is, um, I know that you weren't through hiking, but I'm curious how long it took you to, and I guess there's two ways to ask it. Like, how long did it take you, like over time. Or how many days did you spend on the trail? Whichever is the best way to ask or think about it. Yeah. Well, my, a book is structured into 40 day hikes. Mm-hmm. I did it with friends and family and, uh, we just said, Hey, whoever wants to come along and, you know, it just, we just had a lot of fun. Each day we, we took our time. And would, you know, would it, it would pretty much, it didn't involve a car shuttle, so you have to drive to the end of the hike, leave a car, and drive back to the beginning. , So that, that takes some time, especially. We had what we called a base camp where we st where we stayed, uh, for a whole week and did hikes from there. But the further away you get from that base camp, the longer, the longer it takes for the, for the car shuttle. Right. But that, I mean, it worked for us, you know, it was, uh, um. And you're never very far from civilization. You're not, you're not gonna get lost. Yeah. This is not a wilderness psych. Um, right. There were plenty of opportunities to stop and have a meal or coffee or, you know, find a public restroom, that kind of thing. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what makes, that's what makes this so much fun. And we've talked about this too, you know, I was a guide in Europe. In the past, and one of the great things about being a guy hiking in Europe during this, this spectacular scenery, and then I can go and get a, get an espresso and get some fresh fruit. Yeah. And what's wonderful about the Oregon coast, it has an opportunity, hit this incredible wild northwest scenery and I can scoot into Bandon and, and, and get an oyster, you know, a bowl of oysters. , The food scene is amazing too. Mm-hmm. You've got developed campgrounds along the way to, to the state parks so you can get a hot shower at a lot of these parks and everything. It's a very popular bicycle, the Oregon coast, so the state parks have, have, uh, bike biking campsites, but I believe they're the walking campsites sewer reserved as well. So if you're doing the trail, is that correct? So, yeah. And there, I mean, there's definitely the need for more infrastructure to support through hikers. Yeah, You don't wanna compromise the land, but we need more camp, you know, camp access, trails, all kinds of informa. And so I'm hoping that we're gonna have this new era of really, we love our parks, we can work with private. Uh, area the public is, is doing their role as far as promoting, protecting land. And, and, and we have opportunities in the, in the private sector to, to accommodate people. There's places like in Europe and Asia, it's happening. Uh, I feel like we're on the cusp if we can just get some more enlightened, officials. , It's always important too because we got. Um, these are your public lands and you, you know, speak out and, and, and same thing joining these foundations that, that work with these organizations. , Don't stay silent. These trails and these parks, this all happened because people got involved and, and they had visions. , Do you have any visions or advice on, on, on that as far as getting involved, um, with the organ? The Oregon Trail? The Oregon Trail Foundation, or, or conservation in general or anything, uh, specific. I worked for six years. On developing a two mile section of the Oregon Coast Trail. I mean, it's, you know, it, it takes time, it takes a lot of partnerships and it, and it takes people who do approach, um, local jurisdictions and say, Hey, you know, would I, I did, I approached the city of Manzanita and I said, um, would you be willing to sponsor a grant to, do this, to do this trail? And they did., But you know, I mean, it took my. Uh, going there and re regular meetings with the, with the council. And, , it's not even within the city of Manzanita, but they were willing to do it anyway. And, um, the, the funding was through the state, but, um, the, but it, it connects the south side of NeoCon Mountain. Two Manzanita and that it had previously been required to be walked on the, on the highway. On the highway. Yeah. Yeah. There, there's, there's a, there happens to be, um, a private housing development. Right across, um, when you come off of Niko Mountain, and the first thing I did was to approach them, but they, they would not allow a public trail through their property. So, we got the grant and, um, and there, there were. Four different landowners involved in this two mile section of Trail Oregon State Parks or, or Department of Transportation or odot. Most of it belongs to the lower Alem community Trust, uh, and,, a private owner. And who agreed to, um, provide access to the trail. And so, it finally got built, but it was, I mean it's complicated and, and what I think people can do though is, um, approach their. At the local level, approach their city councils and or county and say, you know, , that they have, um, an idea, especially if they've done some research and kind of know what's possible and can be done, then, , I think that, um, that can make a difference. I'm not so convinced that, you know, work, working from the top down is gonna work. , The state did a, did um, s. Enact this legislation, but they're not doing anything to implement the solution. So it has to be at, at the more local level. I mean, absolutely. And, and I think sometimes we get kind of fatalistic, especially. The top level now on the federal level, it's pretty depressing, but we have so much power and control on those, uh, on the local level. And, that's where it starts. You have doing trail maintenance and you, you, you have ownership. It's your public lands instead of it's just some ominous. Organization that, that makes all the decisions. I, I think, um, this is really important, trying to connect more people. And this is, I know this is Jenny and I, this is one of our, our, uh, principals here trying to, you know, connecting people and, and, um. It just makes everything better as far as the environment, our lifestyles, the communities, um, and, and as the communities along the coast, you're talking about too, having that trail come through, it makes Manzanita and all those other places even more desirable places to live. Well, that that's what, that's what convinced them. Because when people come through town, there are coffee shops, uh, right. They're gonna spend money, public restrooms, they're gonna spend their money. , The other thing I was gonna say is people could get involved with Trails of Oregon. Yes. I mean, if they're in Oregon, obviously, but they're, they do a great job of, um, getting local, uh, volunteer groups together to work on trail maintenance, especially after there's a big. Storm or , a part of the trail's been closed off. , They get in there and, um, and, and, and I've done some of those, uh, work projects myself and it's, you know, they're, they're very skilled and, you don't have to be a expert trail builder to, to, to help out and it, and, um, so there, that, that's a good place to get involved too. I, I agree with you. It, yeah. Trail keepers, TKO. Great organization. My, , day hike in the Columbia River Gorge book. I donate, um, some of my proceeds to that organization. Uh, just what you said, they, they're doing so much to, to get those, especially after the, after the Eagle Creek fire in those trails together. Um, and they're, and they're doing a lot of work on the Oregon coast. Uh, the other one, you know, I just wanna back up for a while. You mentioned O Doc. Again, people don't think, you know, it's transportation, but you're right. It's, it's a partnership. Because I was thinking, again, the gorge, the work that ODOT is doing in the gorge, you're gonna be able to go bicycle, pedestrian through that whole thing. Uh, pretty soon they're, they're connecting the pieces. So again. You know, thinking outside who would think the tra but it makes sense too because, you know, for, for better transportation, for safety and everything to, to get people off the highway and, and have their pedestrian and bicycle lanes. So, okay, Connie. There's so much you can talk about the coast and I know we don't wanna, um, reveal any favors here and all your research. I want to reveal favorites. No, no, we're not gonna do that. That's, that's not fair. But this is, it's totally fair. These are the questions I like to be asked though. See. , For anyone who spends a lot of time on the trail, anything that stands out, a a particular, um. Moment hiking, whether it was just the most incredible sunset you ever saw, or you met like an incredible old weathered beach guy who was a prophet, or you saw elephant seals that you know were, uh, is there anything that just really captured the essence of, of what makes the Oregon Trail so special. Well, uh, one thing I coast trails. That's, that's special. The one thing that I, that I mentioned before, and I'll say it again, was walking through the dunes. Um, and that's just, , south of Florence and there are two, uh, two sites. There's a, there's a Dunes Lookout area and there's a John Dellenback trail head. And from there, from the John down the back trail head, there is a trail that goes well, sort of, I mean, that goes to the dunes and then you have to . Look for markers or figure it out. There's a little bit of, wayfaring involved there because it's not a typical trail, but quite a unique experience. I really enjoyed that. Um, I also really liked, south of Bandon. Um, when you get to the, it's called the New River, there's a long stretch there where there's no way to get off the beach and might Right. It's all below the cliff. I've been on that stretch. Yeah, it's spectacular and very re very remote. And also, uh, one thing we haven't talked about is that. Um, there are multiple places where you can only, you have to time it in order to cross rivers at low tide. And, um, and some, like for example, there's a really cool place between Canon Beach and Arch Cape. There's an old roadway that's been blown out of a, of a rock shelf, but you have to do that at low tide, and other, other. Rivers also can only be crossed the low tide. You have to kind of, you know, look at your ti tide tables and figure, figure that out. But, but that was kind of fun. And that area, like around Cape Blanco, where there's a lighthouse you mentioned is a very, um, beautiful. And that involved crossing a couple of rivers. That was a little bit of an adventure. Yeah. Uh, those were parts, places I, that I remember. . Winchester Bay has, is famous for their oysters. So they, they're, they, they have a really great oysters. Also, I think one of my favorite restaurants is in Port Orford and, um. No, I'm not gonna remember the name of it, but it's like this beautiful restaurant overlooking the ocean. I think maybe it's red fish. Yeah. That was a, that was a really good place, you know, and I, and it, it's just kind of fun to just stop places and get fish and chip or a sandwich, and just have a picnic. Didn't, doesn't have to be anything gourmet, but there are some good places. And it's better than granola and peanut butter, so Yeah. Yeah. You're not back, you're not backpacking. So, so, uh, yeah, no, I love, this is great. So, your book is fantastic. Um, but it's outta print. Can people still get it? Is still being, is it still being, um, you know, I, it was in print for, for 10 years. I, I self-published it and I had a lot of fun, um, giving presentations at libraries and, uh, I did, the first thing I did was I gave, I was like the. Ranger talk at a different, at six different Oregon state parks and went out to the little amphitheaters and, you know, gave presentation and, uh, that, and it wasn't really for the purpose of selling the book, in fact, they wouldn't let me sell the book. 'cause I wasn't an, uh, I wasn't an, an official vendor, but I, I just wanted to get the word out there. And, I give presentations to hiking groups and, um. Bookstores, libraries and met all the books sellers along the Oregon coast and, you know, established relationships with them and kind of managed that whole distribution by myself. Um, which, um, and then, you know, after a few years it, I, I did reprint it, um, and updated it once and, but it's, uh. My only goal was to pay back what I had. It had cost me to produce the book, which I did, but I certainly didn't, you know, get rich off of it. Oh, I know. As a guidebook author, that's not, we, we don't do this for the money. No, but I, so I think, anyway, I, I got to the point where. Recently I had to decide whether or not to reprint more. I decided not to. So, no, I don't have any more books. There are a few of them around Oregon, uh, state park's, uh, website. I think they're, they're still, maybe they, they'll have some, they may still have some and there's a bookstore here in Manzanita that has some, um, I know Broadway books in Portland has some, so I mean, they're around. Yeah, but I'm not, now, I'm not gonna print up anymore. People are using. All trails and apps and um, uh, look, getting our information online, but none of that stuff has the depth of the history and so, no. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely I would suggest anyone out there. The book is definitely, even though it's outta print, it's a great resource. Uh, the history information. And then if you are looking, um, to compliment that, uh, I worked with, with, uh, green Trails Maps as public of mountaineers books and green trails we put out. Three, uh, organ Coast maps. Having those, these, these special series maps with your book, go out there and explore and you're going to, I mean, just do piece by piece or, or do the whole thing. You're gonna have an incredible experience. So, and includes you. Jenny, I wanna see I next year at this time, I want to hear more of your, your, I know. I totally wanna do this. It sounds so amazing. I love it. Connie, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this wonderful trail. Thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. It was fun to, to visit with you. Yeah, yeah. No, this has been great. Thank you for, for, for coming on the show. Thank you. .. 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