Discovering Indigenous Connections to the Land with Tobi Iverson

Tobi Iverson, writer of the screenplay, Wild Woman of the Woods, sits down Jennie and Craig to share her journey of discovering her Indigenous history and creating a Screenplay based on what she learned from an ancestor's journals and how can we connect more deeply to the land as hikers.

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, and I'm your co-host Craig Romano. Craig and I are happy to have you here. We provide practical and timely seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners, and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun, and inclusive. If you're the kind of hiker who likes a little elbow room, wonderfully wild northeast Washington might just be your kind of place. We're talking millions of acres of public lands to explore forests, peaks and hidden lakes where it's easy to find your own stretch of trail. It's a bit off the beaten path, but that's kind of the point. Spend the day hiking, then roll into a small town for a delicious and restorative burger and an ice cold beverage. Northeast Washington is the kind of place where adventure feels easy and crowds are hard to find. Start planning your visit today@www.wonderfullywild.com. I. Our guest today is Tobi Iverson, and Tobi is here to share an incredible story about a screenplay that she recently wrote, and I will let her tell you about that. Tobi, welcome to the Washington State Hiking Podcast. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Great to have you here, Tobi. Yeah. Thanks, Craig. It's very exciting to be here. , My name's Tobi Iverson, and as Jenny said, I recently completed a screenplay that I have been working on for, for years, uh, based on, um, my cultural heritage, uh, here in the Pacific Northwest as an indigenous person. And so, yeah, I appreciate being invited to be here and also having a personal connection, which I'm very proud to say to Craig. I currently live in Silicon, Washington, but born and raised in Washington up in the San Juan Island area. Tobi and I go way, way back. When I first moved here in 1989, I was living in the U district for a short while and then, my arrangements weren't working out right, so I saw an ad in the daily. And,, I ended up becoming housemates with Tobi and a couple other Zani. I mean, we're, there was four of us. We were all going through various, uh, stages of our lives trying to get our lives together. I also remember too, this was the time when you were really getting back to your roots. , I believe I remember when you went back, uh- Yes. ... to met LeCatla for the very first time and connected to your ancestry and everything. And it's just been amazing to see where this has gone from there, so , I remember seeing you standing in that tiny kitchen in that 1920s house in Ballard on 65th and 9th and how crazy it was and you sitting there staring at me and our other two housemates, and you're staring at all of us like, "Who are these crazy people? But okay, I'll live here." Yeah. And, um, yeah, and what a hard worker you were and how much energy you had. I mean, I don't remember how many jobs you had and, , I barely saw you because you worked so much and when you weren't working, you were out in the outdoors somewhere. And God forbid you ever went missing, not like today's world, we wouldn't have known where to start to find you I knew where you were gonna be. No cell phones, no, you know, personal location, beacons, you know. It's just like we have a note on the refrigerator. Right. Right. Yeah, you did. You'd say, "I'm going. I didn't even know where you were going. " But yes, and time flies and to just have kept up over the years and see where your career's gone and the things that you've done and the, uh, progression and dedication to what you do is, is really, it's just remarkable. I don't personally know that many people who've ever stuck with something as long as you have in their career. I've watched you the same thing through your studies and through, you pursued this and, you know, that it's all come together as, this screenplay, that is just one. And, all these awards and I remember even in Austin and, and I'm like, "This is incredible." It's like, I know this person you know, this is great. And, and I'm so excited to see, um, to see your story. I mean, this is, this is just incredible. So- Yeah. So big congratulations on that. Thank you. And yes, , you were right there. So, you know, going back to that beginning of me- meeting you in eight, 1989, I was majoring at UW and American Indian Studies is what they call it, anthropology. And I used to joke about it, it's like somebody from Mexico City majoring in Spanish, you know, sounded so ridiculous as a Native American person majoring in that. Born in Seattle, raised in Anacortes and a pre- predominantly non-Native community schools and whatnot, blessed with a wonderful mother, who raised me. And when I met you at the age of 19, 20, I was really getting for the first time immersed in my culture and meeting other Alaskan natives. I'm Tshimshian and Niska, which is Northern British Columbia and Southeast Alaska. My great-great-grandparents hail from what's today called Prince Rupert and Metlakatla, Alaska, Annette Island, which is in, near Ketchikan, Alaska. But anyways, I was getting to know that and making friends and just a whole new world. And then in 1990, I got a job working for Princess Cruise Lines up in Ketchikan as a tour guide. So I feel like that has continued on to today, now 30 some odd years later where I am con- have continued to learn, witness, participate in my culture, reconnect with family, um, immediate and extended and tribal. And just that journey, um, so much has happened to build on this up to the screenplay that I have recently finished that, has just come full circle at this point, you know, that to be able to tell this story , in terms of, like, returning to my culture, returning to my roots. And that's really what the story is about. Listening to you saying that about being immersed into your culture and everything for the first time, you know, having you as a housemate and, and then I remember all your friends who, were Haida and, Tlingit and it was the first time I was actually being exposed to a lot of this culture too. Right. Yeah. I forgot that you knew that, um, my friends. , I found out immediately upon, you know, in 1990, stepping into Ketchikan, making my first trip to Metlakatla, Alaska, I just felt it in my bones when my feet set ground on Annette Island in Ketchikan. The first time I even flew into Prince Rupert, I felt a connection. I don't know wh- how else to explain it, but I'm sure that you understand, like, you just, it's in the air, it's in the trees, it's in, it's in the, the be- it's on the beach and the stones, you know? I just feel like I was so, it was so profound to me to realize that that's my ancestral heritage for hundreds of years, and I could somehow, I felt,, in my spirit that I knew that. And so it was really coming home for my soul and my spirit and going there, and as well as literally finding, extended family and, , my grandmother, and it was just really overwhelming, as you probably remember, and , it was really overwhelming as a young person, 2021 to have that experience, and it just became a lifelong, I don't know, mission of mine to learn as much as I can, absorb it. And through that process, I heard through the years that I was a descendant of Arthur Wellington, that's his English name, Clah, C-L-A-H, is his native name. And he's a semi-famous person in our tribal history. He's the first indigenous man who taught,, Father Duncan, an Anglican missionary who came to that part of the world in the 1850s. He taught him our language in return to learn how to read and write English. And from there on, he went for 50 years writing a diary every day as he traveled up and down the Pacific Coast, and he's traveled as far as Vashon Island, Victoria, and this is all, remember where he comes from is the Skinner River, the Nassau Skiner Rivers at the tip of Northern British Columbia, as far inward as the gold mines or the goldfields, Cassiar, as far north as Sitka. Um, and one year alone, he traveled 3,700 miles, um, via foot and canoe. Going up the skin and Nash River could take three to seven weeks at a time. So it, it's just, you know, and that, and he wasn't an odd person for doing that. That's just how people traveled back then, which is just incredible. I mean, you go into some of the museums down here and you'll find some Chan Tlingit Haida culture and artifacts dating that predate, far predate that, that time. He would come down and, and work in the hot fields, on Bay Bridge Island and, and Vashon. So anyways, long line of people who traveled these inlets and these trails and up and down the coastline. And that's really what my script is based on. It's based on that period of history in 1862 when a terrible epidemic struck the Pacific Coast and it decimated the Native peoples from as far south as Astoria all the way north to, , Yakita, Alaska on the coastline. And there's debates in, on how many people, but it's by and large accepted by anthropologists that more people died in the shortest period of time than it's been recorded in North America. And I think that's significant significant story in that my grandfather lived through that, witnessed it, wrote about it, and I went to London in 2023 and opened up boxes of his diaries that have sat in a museum for a hundred years. And I specifically asked for the diary of that year, of 1862 when within weeks and months, you know, entire villages died. Something that prior to 2020, I couldn't comprehend what that even would look like. And I think most all of us now have had to think about that, what would happen if, your whole family died within weeks or months. And that's literally what he's, he witnessed and wrote about. And it was just heartbreaking. He had not perfect English. It was very hard-won English to read, to read his writing, but, the sentiment was there over and over like a mantra in every journal. It began with his name, his tribe, and that he's writing this so that all new people will know old people. Mm. And I think the intent was very clear that he's documenting this from native perspectives- Yeah. from what happened inside the culture, and that's what my script is about. But I know that sounds dire , and, it's an adventure thriller with an indigenous woman who's also based on historic figures and women of that time, a young heroine,, who goes on a journey during this epidemic and uses a sacred soul catcher, which is a shaman relic used to find lost souls and bring them home when they're sick. It's been exciting to see that the response to this story that within a year, it's been recognized either through awards or fellowships in eight countries. And just recently, I was a finalist in the Berlin International Screenwriting Competition. I just to share some of, with our listeners, um, the Artists Trust Fellowship, Washington State, the Austin Film Festival, the Writer's Lab, Canada, the Rhode Island International Film Festival, the Montreal Women Film Festival, the Santa Barbara Screenplay Awards, the Global Indie Filmmakers Awards, the Bridges International Film Festival, the London International,, Screenplay Awards. This is just incredible, how the story is, is, is gonna be heard. Yeah. Congratulations, Tobi. That is really fantastic. Thank While you're talking about discovering these diaries and connecting with Clah, how, how did that change the way you see the land that's around us? Oh, I don't know that it changed it as much as it deepened and broadened my appreciation and respect- mm-hmm. ... not only for, for, the land itself, but the brutality and the tough chur- the, the tough people they had to be, we all know the weather of the Pacific Northwest, that damp and the cold and sometimes you just can't get warm and just living in the outdoors and thinking about, they didn't have Patagonia and North Face back then. And we, they were wearing, , repurposed Hudson Bay blankets and woven cedar capes and just those things as I now do more further research and I have the opportunity, I think it's in a couple of weeks, Bill Holm through the Burke Museum has a program where indigenous people come and we can be with our artifacts from that time and, and the museum curators will help us do more research. And I'm so excited that they have, um, selected me to come and do some of that. Not that I haven't in the past, but it's just such an honor to be able to sit with those things. And I sit and I think, gosh, you know, can you imagine? You're in a canoe going from Prince Rupert all the way down to Victoria or maybe even Seattle and what did they sleep in at night? You know, I just think about things. What did they wear, you know? I go out on a canoe just for an afternoon here on a nice sunny day in Seattle. I'm wiped out at the end of the day. Right. Can't even imagine. So to answer your question, it's just deep in my respect and it's broadened my understanding, our cosmology, if you will, a technical term, but the worldview, if you will, that, spirit and animals and humans were all in our environment are all related. And that's really reflected in our art, our form line art where it's circular. There is no beginning and no ending and how that would evolve if that was your life. That is how the people survive for hundreds and hundreds of years on ... In the Pacific Northwest, they didn't need cars, they didn't need trains, they just needed a canoe and good hiking shoes. I feel like a tour guide is maybe the best way to explain what I'm doing through cinema and what I wanna get across is, the history, and that is so important. Yes, we experienced at least two major smallpox, influenza, you know, there were different illnesses that spread up and down the coast that decimated, and we rebuilt each time. Each time the population rebuilt and came back, the culture was not decimated, the culture was not destroyed, and the culture did not go away, and we were not conquered by war, and we were also not conquered by disease. And I think that those are two big distinctions that I like to make about what happened in the Pacific Coast, comparatively to the East Coast, and the Plains and whatnot. And a lot of us are familiar in the larger culture in cinema with what Dances with Wolves came out when I was li- we were living together- When you go through this discovery, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And it, it was a paradigm shift at its time. Today, we can look back and sure, it's flawed told through a white man's perspective, but at the time, it was really groundbreaking and shifting on how people perceive Natives. I wanted at that point, I, I thought someday there will be a dances with wolves for the Pacific Northwest tribes and, and that's what was born the dream of, of this script and to see it on the screen eventually. That's the part that I wanted to get across is the power of not only the people, but the culture. The culture, I think, is so important today for people to, to maybe non-natives, I'm saying, to take something away from that way of life that we are connected to the land. And even if you're not, you know, from here, so to speak, um, you are here and we all have to live together. And I think that that's something that's baked into our cultural heritage and values that I'm hoping we can bridge that and, because, you can't put, hike and, and, and go out and canoes and explore the Pacific Northwest and not feel a spiritual connection, you know, you know, no matter who you are. And that's, that's universal. And we're just blessed that we've been the people that steward it for thousands of years, but it doesn't belong to us, , it belongs to us as humans, and that's the spiritual divide that I think we need to bridge with one another. And as a cultural, um, tour guide, I'm just hoping I can share some of that worldview that helped us sustain that world for thousands of years as stewards of it, that perhaps we can continue to jointly do that together. Tobi, I'm thinking about, you talked about Clah writing this diary for how long? 50 years from ... Yeah. 50 years. Amazing. You also talked about the different perspective that he had as an indigenous person, and it, it brought to my mind all these European explorers colonizers, and I would love to know from your perspective,, either from, from spending all this time with Clah's work or just your own experience, like, what are some of those things when you think about an indigenous perspective on the land that are different from a European perspective? For one, it's inherited stewardship. So for instance, Clah had his, his house, if you will. So he's from the Killer Whale Clan, and we're, we're divided into clans, and then there's houses underneath that, and there's chiefs of the clans, and there's chiefs of the house, and Clah's house had two canoes that had the right to do trading on the Skina River. So these rights are inherited, they were traditional, and they were real. So there were, it was very territorial, and so that meant, not just anybody had the right to go up and down the rivers to do trading, and that sovereignty gave them a lot of power when it came to working with Europeans. And when they first put the Hudson's Bay host was there at the Nass River, and then they moved it to the Skina River in the late eight, in the early 1800s, they had to rely on that system, on that hereditary system that had helped the tribes live sovereign. And they didn't like that. That's part of what I want my script to show is that,, we were a sovereign people that did control our own land, but it was in a different mindset. It, it, the potlatch concept, you know, that's a whole nother thing. We could talk about potlatch law, and that's what governed all of that, where actually true power is in giving everything away, not in the sense of Gandhi give every- or Mother Teresa give everything away, but it was, I don't know, a checks and balance on your power. Clah had one potlatch in which he gave away everything that he owned and one potlatch to strengthen his name. And so it's, to answer that in a short question is really complex. Yeah. A complex answer, but it is very, very different. And also, Clah saw what was happening around him. I think that a lot of what gets lost is the intelligence level of our an- you know, our ancestors that natives have been flattened in our culture in terms of cinema and books and whatnot. And I hope to bring some, a more dynamic look to that. I think that's what h- this lends us to. Uh, just in his name itself, I mean, he and his, his journals dealt with judges. He knew Captain McNeill, who was the head of the Hudson Spay Company. He hung out with these guys. Missionaries back in the day were very, very powerful. It's not like today when we look at them, they were practically politicians. , Henry Welcome is who purchased Clah's Diaries. He's one, was one of the richest men in the world at the time. He developed the ability for pharmaceuticals to be taken in pill form from England. He was a friend of Clah's. And so to think about the, the relationships they had with, he purchased those and sent them to his, his London museum, or they're now in his museum, but,, he chose that name, Arthur Wellington, because s- he asked, "Who is your leader?" And they said, "Well, it was the, the Duke of Wellington." And so he said, "Well," and they, the missionary said, "You need an English name." So he chose that. Well, I'm just gonna take name of your most powerful guy. So- Yeah, why not? It worked for you. So why not? So, so what you're saying- But I think it shows you the mindset, you know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, it's a clue. Yeah. , This is fascinating too, about the potlatch and everything, about the power, that was so threatening to, to the colonizers that both, and you know this,, but maybe I listened right now, that both in the state of Washington and in British Columbia, potlatch was outlawed, um- Yeah. because it w- it was, you know, again, it's an attempt of destroying the culture and, and just, I mean, there's a, a threat to this. Uh, and it seems, and, and just getting the story told, and again, with change, name changes and, and having, uh, native perspectives to places, because for so, so many years, we had these parks and these preserves, and it was like, isn't this pretty, like, like people didn't live here before One of the first places in, in the US, with a state park being co-managed with a tribe was the Kukutali Preserve, uh, Kicked Island. So again, I, do you see lots of opportunities here to get, to get, you know, this perspective, the stories told, and is there a lot of resistance? Are people opening up to this? Um, how do you, what do you feel the pulse is out there? I just know that Native Americans, we've had to deal with a lot of different presidents, a lot of different world leaders over the past 150 years. And whatever's happening with the governing and the politics around any of those issues, you know, it's just a Tuesday. It's another Tuesday. Um, we've dealt with worse. We'll deal with more. It's just, you know, it is what it is. Do you think it'll help encourage, getting stories out there and having people who are non-Native looking at the land, differently. And I think that's the whole idea of reconciliation because for so long, your story wasn't told at all, or if anything, it was even worse. It was denigrated That's a big reason why I wrote this. Again, I wanted that shift in the culture and how they see our cul- see, see us and hear about us. I've gone to things where people have dismissed our cultures in the Pacific Northwest and not just mine. I, I'm speaking of all co-salish and I, I've thankfully, you know, had the opportunity to travel and live in other parts of, of the country, not, not globally, but I've been to places where people have just never even heard of our tribes and have even sat across from me and said, "Well, gosh, you know, you're the first Native American I've ever met. I thought you were all dead." Not met with disrespect, but complete sincerity in Missouri. Uh, and so it's like shocking to me, but then it's not because people haven't been given the opportunity to know us. And that's what I wanna create through this film in a, in an epic way, um, not a documentary, not a sad victim story, not a, um, story about, you know, look what happens. It's a s- it's a redemption story. It's an exciting story. It's one that anyone can relate to. And I just want them to see that though. I want them to see the power of our culture, of our artwork, the, the totem poles, the canoes, the potlatch system, our artwork, just in the, the incredible respect and interconnectedness of the land and the animals and the spirit world. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're, you're heroin correct me the pronunciation, N- Nashekai? Neshakai. Nashakai. Nishakai. Mm-hmm. I was, I was reading that and I was wondering, is there any bit of Tobi in that,? I do explore within the, the film is, uh, issues of belonging and, identity, for sure. She's an outcast , and finding her way back. And so, yes, it's not based on any particular person. It's not a true story. It's historical fiction., But you will see, you know, like any artist, i- if I'm not in it, then it's probably not gonna land very authentically with anyone who reads it. So yes, there's parts of my fingerprints all over it, but it really is my imagination. And it really took me a long time to get the confidence to tell these kind of stories i- until someone, a, professor, I was taking a classroom through the UW this past five years said, "You know, you do realize that your art form , is telling stories. You're just now using a keyboard or, or a pencil like your great-great-grandfather did. It's just the technology available to you. " But your people, meaning people of the Pacific Northwest have so many deep, rich cultural stories and myths that there's ne- there's not enough people to tell them all. So, it really gave me empower, it empowered me to go ahead and, and make a story of mythic proportions, but have some real history behind it. That's amazing. Tobi, I'm wondering, for people for whom this might be a new idea, like the way that I've always gone outside is just kind of the way it always is, what are some ways that you believe based on this story and learning this story and telling the story? What are some ways that people can connect with the land in a deeper way? Well, if they could visit any local, museums to that area or read any, I think, historical books about the indigenous people that lived in that area, there's a lot of rich, whether they're into mythology or they're into, real actual recorded events as we confine them to those areas, I think that's really important. Re- read the signs when you go to some of these parks. A lot of people just walk right by them and there's actually been a lot of work through the g- through generations of documenting things. So I feel like that's really important to try to understand that. I know one thing that, that we, we do a lot is, i- is respecting I don't know why trees are such a big deal, but trees are really a big deal. Our people wore them, literally, stripping cedar bark and making them into hats , and capes and clothes, but trees are just incredible. You know, they're nourished and grown from the dirt, which is the dust of our ancestors. And respecting the trees and walking through the forest, there's something so magical about that. And that's why I made Wild Women of the Woods the mythical creature within the film. And you sit and listen, and there's so many stories about people that feel that they've heard or seen something like a Bigfoot or a Wild Woman of the Woods, you know, and,, just sit and dream. What I'm hearing you say right now is,, slow down. I think the hiking culture around here quite often is,, even just the language that people use, , I conquered this peak or I, you know, like, thinking of it as more of a relationship, "Hey, I'm gonna move more slowly. I'm gonna connect with this tree." I think it sounds amazing and I think there's so much there for us if we can just focus on being there and being in a relationship with the land that we're on and not just, like, it's like a thing that I have to own and conquer and push through. The back to nature boom that I experienced as a young adult in my 20s was more communing with nature, came back where now it's more of, "Yeah, I've got this bucket list. I'm gonna go out and do all these things and move on what's next." , And yes, I'm an ultra runner, and yes, I, I've moved through the forest fast, but that doesn't mean,, I don't appreciate what I'm seeing, and it doesn't mean that everyone is going slow and doing nothing is, community. No matter what, how you recreate, that, that is so key to connecting. And that's, again, so important, certainly the people that this is their land that they, they have that reverence and that, that strong connection, but how can the rest of us have that connection and that reverence and, , we'll all be better off for it if we started looking at the land that way instead of just as a commodity or something that we just check off. So, um- I also think it's what you find out there. I mean, it's sure, it's the land and the trees and, and the mountains that you climb, but also,, it's incredible, the birds that you're, you'll encounter, the animals that you'll encounter. And that's, my heroin Nashekai has a one-legged raven that it's not a, it's not a parrot to her. It's not a, a pet, if you will, but it is a spirit guide. It is a pet, it is a raven that follows her around. And, I know people that have had, , birds like that, that just come to their house over and over. I mean, many people probably listening have the same hummingbirds that come to their feeder day after day. It's that same way she had her own raven, you know? And, I think there's so much we can learn from the environment, but also the other animals we share it with. So that's something- Yeah. ... I'm always paying attention to. About reading the signs. That's such a simple thing, it's really powerful. Often the signs will tell you a lot, and either they will tell you a lot about native plants, native people- mm-hmm. ... or they won't, which also tells you a lot you know, if you show up somewhere and it's like, "Well, this was so, like, a good example, ." Ebie's landing on Whidbey Island? I am not gonna belabor this because we don't need to give it even more airtime than it already has, but this is a place with very colonizing interpretive signs and completely overlooking the not only interesting, but also important indigenous history of that area of Whidbey Island. But then on the other hand, you've got places like some of the trails in North Bend, the Snoqualmie tribe has put up some really great helpful signs a- along some of those popular trailheads or like, Craig earlier mentioned, Kukutali, you can learn so much from reading those signs, at least from my perspective as a non-Native person, there's a lot to learn even in just the tiny bit that's told there. Right. Y- Tobi, before we wrap up, is there anything else you wanna share with hikers in Washington ? What popped into my mind was just respect that, that that's something that's an inherited value- mm-hmm. ... within indigenous cultures is respect for it, that the land and the animals and the spirit world that you can't see were all related and we're all equal. And if we treated it as such, maybe we would have more balance and- Yeah. individually, you might have more balance to look at the world that way. Yeah. And being, raised in a non-indigenous, community has, has really helped me see very distinctly between the two worldviews and make a choice. And I think, as Craig just said to his point, the more you educate yourself about other worldviews, you can then make your own choice, your own decision. And I think it's just one other way of looking at the world and potentially living it. And sometimes been flattened and stereotyped that Native Americans are, you know, environmental lovers and, and whatnot. But, you know, we did own land and we certainly harvested off of the land, but we also respected and understood to give back. You know, we have the first salmon ceremony every year. There are those types of things that are available to everyone that can go. In downtown Seattle, they have a first salmon. I just think a lot of people don't know what those are. Yeah. And again, and what they mean. And what they mean is if you disrespect nature, then salmon's not gonna come back next year. And if you look at a tree as, that's my great-great-grandparents in that tree, , that the dirt I'm walking on that I'm about ready to, dump oil in, , those are the remains of my ancestors. If you just start thinking about things like that, I don't know, it does make me take pause. Yeah. You know? So I think that's how the story has impacted me and, uh, as I think about other people that are going in and out of these waterways is just to remember that they weren't empty. There were, thousands of people that came before all of us that are here now that canoed and kayaked on those same enlants and waterways that you enjoy and hike those same trails and others that have now been overgrown. So, um, and you, you know, think about, you might encounter them along the way. Yeah. Well, listeners, if any of you are filmmakers, get in touch with Tobi. We're putting her, website in the show notes, so definitely find her and make this film so that we can all see it and not just read it, but actually see it come to life. And Tobi, thank you so much for sharing this journey with us. We're really grateful thank you. And it feels like, um, full circle to do it with Craig. I'll tell you that. Oh, abs- absolutely full circle., This has been an amazing journey and it is, it's a journey. , , I'm so glad, I'm so glad you're still part of my journey and this, this is great. Thank you. Thanks for being on the program. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Craig and I would love to thank wonderfully wild northeast Washington for being our sponsor for the month of June. Thank you so much. And listeners, thank you for listening. You can really help us out by leaving a rating. Or a review wherever you're listening to the pod. I know you hear this with every podcast you listen to, but the reason is it really makes a difference in helping other people find us. And the more people who find us, the more we are able to keep bringing you more episodes and get support like from our wonderful sponsors. So thank you so much for taking a moment to do that, and we'll see you next week.