Zhara - Marie: Welcome to another Episode Of the Beyond the Bouquet podcast, where we peel back layers of married life and explore those crucial topics that impact our journeys. It is so exciting. We're almost at the end of the season, but I appreciate all the messages, all the lovely comments. And, I mean, I'm very excited to continue to produce this for you.
So this morning, or it will. Whenever you listen to this, we have Renate with us. I brought in a financial expert. She knows all about the investments and stuff. She's a wife, a child of God, a mom, a friend. and I'm a fan, but I'll allow her to introduce herself to you guys. Hey Renate , welcome.
Renate Mcdonald: Hey, Zhara , thank you so much for having me. I mean, I think you did the main intro. I don't love the long bio thing, So, I'm good with wife, mom, foster care advocate, PMP certified, project management professional, all the things, entrepreneur, COO, All of those things, yes, but most importantly, a woman of God,
is share his
Zhara - Marie: Absolutely. That's so fascinating. I mean, one of the things that I've always loved about you and your vibe and your brand and everything is just your true authenticity. And I think that that's something that kind of connected us like from the beginning, just the fact that you've been always So. open and so transparent. So. You know, just to kind of lighten the mood, crazy experience?
Renate McDonald : Well, with the crazy experiences, we've had several on our anniversaries, because I like to explore, I like to take us to new places, and sometimes those new places means that we get lost. So we've had many of those adventures, including us getting lost on the train lines in New
York.however, god is good. but a fun fact that I love to share is that I am a certified industrial firefighter and I love that.
Zhara - Marie: did you get that?
Renate McDonald : Actually. My very first working experience full time was at Petrojam. I was a lab tech and we had to be certified in certain skills, including firefighting. And just based on the training that I was getting on the ground, I was selected to go to Texas A& M to become a firefighter. Certified as an industrial firefighter. and that was just an amazing experience for me. And I love the fact that, I had that experience being able to go with my co workers learn the
outs, you know, the in depth side of firefighting
Zhara - Marie: So that's actually pretty fascinating. So when I wanted a fun factor, I think I said something, easy, like, Oh, I like cabbage. But the firefighter one really threw me. All right. So let's dive into our main conversation. we're talking a little bit about, investments and finances this morning because both you and your husband have an Investment business called Learn, Grow, Invest, and you can find them on YouTube and all social media platforms if you ever want to get more in depth with conversations like these.
So can you give us an idea or just a general gist of why is it important for me as a wife to understand the concept of financial freedom, finances, and all that comes with it?
Renate McDonald : So I think it's Absolutely.
important For
both parties. to understand the finances, right? But as a wife, sometimes we give into this rhetoric that, Oh, the husband will take care of it. He's the provider. he'll take care of it. But as wife, as the one who is stewarding the home, we also need to understand what we're stewarding from where are we financially?
What can we actually do? afford to do? How do we steward well what the Lord has given us, right? And that is the overarching message of the parable of the talents in Matthew. when we read that scripture, when we look at it, it is about stewardship. What are you doing with what the Lord has given you in your hands?
so when Jesus says in that parable, when he says, he who has been, who can be trusted with a little will be given much. Or because you have been trustworthy with the list that you have. I will give you more. that, is stewardship that, that is the reward of stewardship. And so for us as wives, we need to understand all aspects of the stewarding, not just, Oh, we need ABC for the home, but how do we balance that? because the truth is there, there are many aspects of life. There are so many things that you need to do. You need to pay your bills. Sure. You need to eat food, right? If you have kids, you need to send them to school and you need to clothe them. You need to clothe yourselves, yourself and your husband.
Like you need to take care of the home. So there might be items to purchase like the regular household stuff, month to month, week to week that you need to, purchase. But if you're not aware of where you are financially, then you may be putting undue pressure on your husband. Or on your finances as a whole and pressure on the finances causes pressure in the marriage.
And has been well documented financial issues often lead, well, half of the time is responsible for divorce. So it all ties together and is very important for us as women, as wives, to take responsibility, to take up our role, to take up our In having that conversation with our husbands where we are financially as a,
Zhara - Marie: Absolutely. And I love that you said that, as stewards of the home, because sometimes when we think about like, just like, gender roles and stuff like that, it's easy to push. All the other things I said, because you see in my mental capacity is already taken up with making sure that everybody is fed.
Everybody is clothed. Everybody is taken care of. I don't want to have to think about finances, but then men die. Think men meet in accidents because we're not even going to consider say, you know, you have to prepare yourself for divorce because then that comes from a very selfish place, but I mean, it is also the reality that anything can happen.
People can flip at any point. Mental illness can take over. Illnesses can take over and that you become the person's caregiver. And then point, what do you do? And the reason I never wanted to lead with the whole divorce thing is because Obviously, when you start there, it's easy come back to say, Oh no, we're never going to get divorced.
I'm not going to live my life in preparation for divorce. So let's push that aside for now. And so let's, let's look on just the other realities. We have to live in preparation for illness. We have to live in preparation for death. We have to live in preparation for all unexpected things that may pop up. So that's a very common myth that we're not going to, I don't need to know because we'd never be divorced. Have you ever encountered any other myths in this whole couple finances journey?
Renate McDonald : Yeah.
I think the biggest one is that the finances. Are only the responsibility of one person and it can be either person because typically whoever has the strength in that area is the one who leads right? Whether it's the wife or the husband, that person would lead on the finances.
However, even though you have a lead, both persons need to be aware. Both persons need to be involved in the decision making. Both persons need to. Creating that budget, right? You need to budget together. You need to be tracking together. You need to be having the conversations about what is important together. we have encountered situations where the husband will say, Oh I trust my wife completely to manage the finances. And so I earn, she spends, that's fine. And then when we have them actually talk to each other and say, okay, where are you financially? let's work it through, right?
Let's do the inventory of where you are now. And they come back surprised. The husband is absolutely shocked. Even the wife herself is shocked because she's like, oh, we're in so much debt because nobody was actually having the conversation and looking at the numbers. So a lot of times, And I think another part of that too is, Oh, it's in my head.
I don't need to write it
down. that's a big issue. You do need to write it down And actually do the that's a part
of
Zhara - Marie: that's true. And that's true. But as
Renate McDonald : It's such a peeve. because I truly believe that when you join in marriage, You're joining in all aspects, right, including your finances. And if it is that you try to keep your finances separate while everything else, quote unquote, is joined, you're going to have problems. And I'm not speaking out of theory.
I'm speaking from experience, right? The first five years of oral marriage, I was not saved. Jermaine was not saved. in line at all with the Lord, right? So we were just doing, we were just doing things. We were just doing life as we felt. And we didn't have guidance to say, guys, this is not how it goes.
this is not how you do it. So we were just figuring things out. I was at a stage. Where my mentality was, fiercely independent. I don't need a man. It's just like optional kind of thing, with attitude. So I was fully there and I was about Oh, I'm earning my own money I can spend my money how I want to spend my money And Jermaine would spend how he wants to spend. And it left us in a wreck. We ended up digging ourselves into this deep hole of debt that. We only were able to climb out of when we came to Christ
and started searching his word for how to One how to be a godly married couple and two how to handle finances
Zhara - Marie: Yeah.
Renate McDonald : Period. How to handle it. and we took that from the word, we took it, applied it to our finances, and now we're in a completely different situation. 180 degree shift from where we were. So it's a P for me now because I know what it does to individuals. I know what it does to marriages and we have been called to marriages.
So I hate to see the destruction of marriage, right? I hate to see it. And I know how
much, that independent mindset and what is mine. And what is yours is mine.
That's selfishness because that's really what it is. it's a very selfish
mindset. That's selfishness will wreck your marriage.
Zhara - Marie: So, since we're there and we're talking a little bit about the selfishness, I know that some, possibly somebody might have the question, okay, so how do we
distribute it? What does that look like practically? When I get my paycheck, Xandre gets his paycheck. Do we? Have a mutual Or does it differ based on the couple?
Renate McDonald : So I think there are several options and it does depend on a couple. You can choose what works best
for you. But what is most important is that everything is fully visible to both parties, right? So you don't have a secret
Zhara - Marie: Stashed away for bad times.
Renate McDonald : So practical sense, you get your paycheck, he gets his paycheck.
You can do it several ways. One way is the pooled account or the pool funds where everything goes. Both salaries go to one account and then you distribute from there, meaning you would have your individual spending money. That is yours to spend however you want to spend it. Because the truth is there are personal expenses, even though we are joined,
right?
We still have individual needs that maybe you want to have some freedom to spend. So you you set a limit, you agree on what that amount is per month for each of you, and you send that to your individual account said, do what you want to do with that. And then with the rest of it. You're paying your bills from the pooled funds.
You're investing. You're saving from the pooled funds. Everything else would be coming from the pooled account. That's one way to do it. Another way to do it, of course, is to just agree on which expenses are coming from which salary. And each person has their responsibility to pay those bills, whether it's your mortgage, your utilities, whatever, 1 person does groceries, however, you want to, distribute the expenses, you can do it that way.
But at the end of the day.
each person must be aware of what is in their accounts, and I highly recommend that you each have access to all the accounts, not just the balances, but the accounts themselves, because, as you said, anything can happen. And if one person, I've seen it too often, where there's a couple, something happens to, one party, usually the husband, something happens, and then the wife is like lost.
She doesn't know how to access any accounts, doesn't know how the bills have been paid, doesn't know anything. So it puts her in a place where, or the individual in a place where they are just lost and confused and even more stressed now because have lost your partner. And don't know how to deal
with what is going on around you
financially. So that awareness on both sides
again, is
Zhara - Marie: I never thought about the access thing. So that's actually a very
good point that never kind of crossed my mind because
you like, you know what the account balances are, but I mean, you know, the ATM pin, but are you on those accounts? Can you get into those accounts if anything should happen? That's something that I think we overlook you touched on investments and that's kind of where I want the bulk of this conversation to be, because that's, I think where a lot of people are scared, there's Not enough. I wouldn't want to say there's not enough information cause I think there is, but especially as it relates to the Jamaican market and the Caribbean market, it's a little bit, sometimes it can be unaccessible or inaccessible.
Inaccessible is the word. And then sometimes it can seem like a lot. So if as a couple, we wanted like practical steps on what we can do tomorrow, what we can do now, what would be like your first step, baby steps?
Renate McDonald : So the first thing I would say is have the conversation, Make sure that you have everything on the table. Make sure you've done that inventory, that you understand where you are currently. standing financially, right? what we encourage is a net worth calculation. So tally all your assets, everything that you own currently, everything that you owe as your liabilities, subtract the two, subtract the liabilities from the assets that gives you your net worth.
That tells you where you stand. If that is negative, then you have to make a plan to first get out of negative, right? And that plan can include investing. it can include,planning in a way that allows you to save and do lump sum payments to clear that debt that you may be in.
so that's the first step. Know where you are financially. Then you need to establish the goals. what is it that you're trying to accomplish? Like we literally have a methodology called the learn, learner methodology that, that helps with this, right? So the L is look at your current financial standing.
The E is establish your goals. What is it that you want to accomplish as a couple, right? Are you buying a home? Do you want to go on vacation? Whatever it is. What are those goals? What are the timelines for those goals? what are the financial components of them? What accounts are you using to save towards them or invest towards them?
All of those details, right? Then the A is assess your options. This is where now you're going to look at how can I accomplish the goals that I have set? do I do investment through equities? Do we have enough to do a real estate investment? Do we do USD investment? What options are there for us in terms of investing, right?
do we just go through a brokerage house and do a unit trust kind of thing? What is our, because all of that now will require you to assess your risk tolerance as a couple. Are you high risk, low risk? How much are you willing to? To put into this investment, all of those things have to be agreed upon as you have that Discussion, right?
That's the A. Then the R. is, what is Research. Research or shortlist options, right? So now that you know what all the options are, you're going to shortlist and research those. So you've now narrowed down. And I'd say when you're just starting, narrow down to like three options.
Don't overwhelm yourself to say 10 different things. No, narrow down to maximum of Research them deeply. Make sure that you are, make sure that you're comfortable, comfortable enough to step into that investment Because what you don't want to do, especially know that it's a couple, right? You don't want the blame game.
You don't want one person is more heavily leaning one way and the other one is like, I'm not so sure. And then you do it. And then you hear, well, I told you I wasn't comfortable
with it. You don't want to make
room for that.So.
That's a whole other
marital discussion,
right?
Because no,
Zhara - Marie:
Renate McDonald : it is that, if it is that,
Zhara - Marie: I was going risk tolerance and somebody has like a higher risk tolerance.
Renate McDonald : so you still need to meet, kind of meet in the middle, right? one of the revelations that the Lord gave Jermaine was that he was running fast, right? He was running fast and far, but he was leaving me behind because I have a different risk tolerance.
from him.And so the Lord spoke to him and said, Hey, you best get your wife.
You need to slow down and go back for your wife and walk together because how can two walk together unless they agree? we need you. He, the Lord needs us to agree and walk together in whatever it is that we're pursuing For us to actually get to where he wants us to go as a couple, because there's a call on us on a couple there as a couple, and there's a call on us individually.
If he runs ahead with his individual call and ignores the call of us as a couple, then it's going to destroy us. so the important thing is that you're doing it together and you come into that agreement. we're talking about submission, right? Submitting to one another that Ephesians 521, right?
And understanding God's order for the household. So it's not that we as wives don't have an opinion, but the husband is the head. And when you agree on a way forward, then he is ultimately the one who has the answer for it.
Renate McDonald : The husband has to answer for it. And I tell Jermaine all the time,
I'm not jealous of that.
I don't want that responsibility. But that's how the Lord has set it. That's how he has set it. So you express your thoughts and share your opinion
as wife here wrote your husband.
And then I guarantee you, if You have a husband who is submitted to the Lord, The Lord
will
Zhara - Marie: It's true. you don't have to worry. It's true. I agree
Renate McDonald : Lord will order his steps. And then your responsibility as wife is to be supportive of whatever that outcome is. Do not go into the blame game. Oh, I never want to do this. Don't do that. Because at the end of the day, you agreed before you stepped into this.
And so both now work it through. You're a team. You're on the same side.
Always you're on the same side, right.
So, so that was the R. I wasn't even done.
Zhara - Marie: bring us
Renate McDonald : The N is to normalize investing. So if as best as you can, you make that like a, a standing order from your account, that this amount is going over to your investment account every month. So you don't even see it. You don't think about it. It just goes.it just becomes a part of, what happens every month, your monthly expenses, Right. And then the next E is have an exit strategy. That exit strategy now speaks about,Speaks about that goal that you would have set from the first How do you want to exit? When do you want to, step away from this investment? How does it. . work, towards that goal? Because that timeline that you have for the goal is going to interpret, is going to determine, sorry, what type of investing you do.
And it's going to determine when you exit. And when I say exit means you might sell whatever you would have invested in to pull back on the principal and the interest from that investment. And the final R is to rationalize your risk, right? Rationalizing the risk, a part of that is balancing your portfolio.
So if you find that Over time, your investment portfolio, all of the groups of investments that you have might start to shift from your actual risk tolerance.
if you find that like, example, if you find that 70 percent of your investments are. in high risk investments, you're like, no, that's out of whack for me because I'm a moderate risk girl or I'm a low risk girl.
You may need to sell some of those high risk.
High risk instruments and buy some lower risk or buy some moderate risk
instruments to get you balanced again. So that is the learner
Zhara - Marie: I love it.
Renate McDonald : thank you. and it's something that we developed through our
classes and our coachingand our, just experience
as well.
And we do make it available as a part of our couples consultation, which
Zhara - Marie: Yeah. I was going to ask you to tell us a little bit about like, what your offers are. for anybody listening to this and they're like, okay, this makes sense, but I need a little bit more details and I need to get walked through. how do you and Jermaine help couples?
Renate McDonald : So for couples, particularly, we do offer couples consultation, which is a one off meet With us, let's discuss a specific issue that you're having financially. we do have couples.
coaching, which is more multi week. So we're talking about four to eight weeks of coaching. Meetings to go through the financials, go through your financial situation and provide that guidance for you.
As a couple, We also have group coaching, which now, of course, is similar,
Zhara - Marie: With other couples.
Renate McDonald : and we also have. an investment challenge that's ongoing now where it's 30 U. S. per month. You can jump in at any time. And you will get access to all of the previous months.
All of the videos, all of the teaching, all of the resources that we've been sharing since January. And you'll continue to, and we have monthly meetings with our investment challenge group. And of course you're added to a closed WhatsApp group and you get access to us
daily.
Pretty much to ask any questions that you have. So those are the main
things that we do have
available to couples right now.
Zhara - Marie: So I think one of the biggest when we talk to other we use to do these things? What are the tools? So are you tracking together? do we have spreadsheets? Are we using a project management tool? do you have any that you recommend that you guys like using?
Renate McDonald : We're Excel people over here. We keep it real simple. We have a shared Excel sheet, a shared Excel worksheet that we use. And again, this is a sheet that we make available
In our coaching and consultation sessions.
So, we have built it out over the years and no, I think we're about 10
Zhara - Marie: Wow.
Renate McDonald : tabs.
So it facilitates that entire learner methodology that I would have shared earlierand more, right? It walks you through the steps to do all of the things that I would have described before. And for us, Excel has been great. It has been the perfect tool for us. So apart from just sharing the sheet, of course, we have regular meetings about it.
So we used to be more formal about our meetings, we'd set a date and we'd go outside the house and sit and breathe and discuss and walk through everything. We're 15 years into marriage right now. We're running a business. We have a toddler. So practically our meetings now look like us being in our office at 10 p.
m. sometimes and just say, all right, it's time for financials. Let's go. And we just go through it together and say, Okay.
these are the areas that we need to adjust. These things have been fine. But what is important too, is that. When I mentioned planning together for us, we plan for the year,
right? And then we at intervals monthly, usually intervals, we would come back together and I said reassess.
but also in between that, of course, we're checking and updating or status in the sheet. And if anything jumps out at us, then we have that discussion and say, Hey, we're off track here. We need to adjust that.
So it's not only limited to the monthly discussions. and as I said, Excel works perfectly fine for us. There are apps, we do use, or I do use the Home Budget app, which
helps as wife, that one helps me because
I'm usually the one who is doing most of the expenditure.
I am the one who likes to go to the supermarket.
I actually like it. it's Therapeutic. for
me. I'll go, I'm the one who is doing most of that. And for us, our food bill is one of The highest So I need to track it And the home budget app allows you to put in your budget for the month and then with each expense that you add, it reduces it and it gives you a graph of where you are and all of the works.
it's excellent. I really like that particular one. So I'd recommend Excel and
recommend home
budget app.
Zhara - Marie: does the share expenses with each other or is it just
Renate McDonald : But if I remember correctly, I think the paid version
allows you to do the sharing.
Zhara - Marie: Okay. Yeah, we've tried different tracking apps I think the tracking. Yeah, I'd never yeah I can't even I've been even trying to track my time and it's been pray for me anyways
Renate McDonald : Yeah,
Zhara - Marie: been like My, my little toggle, you know, that toggle time tracker thing.
Sometimes it sends me emails to say, Hey, Zhara , it's been four days. You've been tracking. Cause I didn't remember to turn it off, but I'm really trying to be, not like starting my time so that I know, what, how much time I'm spending in each area of like, you know, the business or whatever, but you know how that, how that goes, right.
As we wrap up, cause I know that you have another appointment. this open line of communication thing, it has come up in this conversation multiple times. what tips can you give for like maintaining that open line and that vulnerability breaking down those barriers? For some of us, we grew up with strong, independent, single moms. And now we're coming into this space where we were trying to be protective of ourselves, but then also God has called us to submit. So
Renate McDonald : work on your wounds, it takes active efforts and active submission to God for us to get the healing that we need to be able to be vulnerable and open and trusting of our partners. it's not an easy thing to do. and I specifically refer to our wounds because sometimes we have traumas that we don't even realize we have.
Sometimes we are acting out of a wounded place, a hurt place, and we don't recognize it. We build up walls often. And that thing that we've been raised to see as strong and independent. Oftentimes are just walls that have been built up to, to protect or to guard ourselves from hurt, from more hurt.
And we need, if we're going to have a successful marriage, if we're going to have oneness and unity, we have to allow those walls to come down and they can only come down in a healthy way. When we submit it all to God, we have to do that as individuals. to be able to have a healthy union. and then the communication can be healthy.
It, because it will not, it will no longer be laced with offense. It will no longer be received through the lens of offense and offense. Germaine is sick of me with this, but offense is truly a bait. It's a bait of Satan. It's his bait to bring up, to drag us into a prideful place. And pride is that sin that got him kicked out of heaven and we know he hates us, right?
sothese are things that creep in and we don't recognize that they're there, but we need to be, we need to be vigilant. We need to ask the Lord to truly search our hearts and show us our own hearts where we may be having issues of trust
for our partner. So that he, and so that we can submit them
to him and he can bring the so that we healthy conversations not just money, but everything
Zhara - Marie: That's my gosh. That's so true. Especially when you spoke about the things that we see as superpowers, they're actually wild. the independence, they, you know, all of that. So I love that this is how we're wrapping up the conversation. And since we're talking about money, the listener question that we're going to take today is one about the fact that there is no secret, the ratio of young professional Christian women.
And I feel that we're often told that we're taking up projects because the poor guy we deal with the aspect and the conversation of marrying down?
Renate McDonald : Wow.
Zhara - Marie: I think we'll need a whole other podcast for this, like a whole other. Episode that I bring somebody else in, but especially as it relates to the financial aspects of it, since, and I know that you guys work with a lot of couples that possibly you've had to see this in reality. how, would you answer such a wide broad topic?
Renate McDonald : so dealing with that particular question, I mean, at the end of the day, it boils down to where is the Lord leading? So for me, the most important thing in all that we do is. What is the Lord saying? what move is the move of obedience to what the Lord is saying to And we were, I was actually just talking to our young adults about this.
When it comes to marriage,it is important who you marry, but more important is the work that you're putting in. For your personal development and growth and spiritual growth and your relationship with the Lord so that you can hear clearly what it is that he's saying about whoever it is that you are marrying, right?
Surround yourself with good counsel, godly counsel so that they can look into that situation with that third party input and say, yeah, he's solid or no, he's not because ultimately it's not money that determines the health of your marriage. It is that submission to God that is going to determine whether this becomes a healthy union or not.
So more than does he have money is the question of, is he submitted to God? Because if he is submitted to God and then you submit to him, you are now walking in alignment with God's order for marriage and God will bless that. He doesn't have to have money. No. he doesn't have to be wealthy now for the Lord to elevate him later.
And maybe it is that union with you that is going to bring him to that place of elevation because he who finds a wife finds a good thing and favor follows. So don't be so fixated on what the man has now that you miss what the Lord wants to do in both of you. I think that's the shortest version I can give right now.
Zhara - Marie: wow. That is so, so powerful. Oh my goodness. So that definitely will have to be an entire podcast episode by itself, but I really appreciate you, Ernie. I appreciated this entire conversation and I cannot wait to work with you more. And for some of the ladies who are listening to this podcast to work with you as well.
So,thank you so much. So why friends that brings us to another episode of the beyond the bouquet podcast. See you next time