The transition to commercial electric vehicles (EV) doesn’t have to be difficult, it’s just different—if truck and bus fleets are working with the right partners. The team of Zero Emissions experts at International® Truck and IC Bus® are sharing solutions, lessons learned, charging strategies, and ways to avoid common EV pitfalls in a new podcast, “The EV Fleet Road Map.” Tune into the pilot episode as Trish Reed, VP, Zero Emissions, walks listeners through our three-step approach to ease your fleet’s electrification journey.
The transition to commercial electric vehicles (EV) doesn’t have to be difficult, it’s just different—if truck and bus fleets are working with the right partners. The team of Zero Emissions experts at International® Truck and IC Bus® are sharing solutions, lessons learned, charging strategies, and ways to avoid common EV pitfalls in a new podcast, “The EV Fleet Road Map.” Tune into the pilot episode as Trish Reed, VP, Zero Emissions, walks listeners through our three-step approach to ease your fleet’s electrification journey.
Fleet Equipment Host Jason Morgan:
Hi everyone. Welcome to the EV Fleet Roadmap, a Navistar podcast about your fleet's path toward zero emissions. I'm Jason Morgan, your host. And joining me today is Trish Reed, Vice President of Zero Emissions with Navistar. Trish, thanks for joining us.
Trish Reed, Navistar VP, Zero Emissions:
Oh, great to be here.
Jason Morgan:
So we are kicking this off with the conversation about transitioning from diesel to electric, which is massive sea change that the industry is going through right now. It's easy to feel like it's this massive task from the fleet point of view. I mean, this is a big change not just in my equipment, but maybe my business model, maybe how I run the equipment right. What should I expect from my partners? I want to partner with people, I want to choose the right partners. What should I expect in terms of support and guidance to make this a reality for me?
Trish Reed:
Great question. I would start with Navistar's vision, which is to accelerate the impact of sustainable mobility. So when we do that, that is really about helping the customer through this in a successful adoption of electrification. Whether it's big, small or they're not even sure where to start. And that's important because I like to tell people as I've been doing this for the last couple of years, is we care less about selling you an electric vehicle than we do about you having a successful adoption with electrification. Because that's really how we accelerate and get customers through this because we like to say, "Hey, it's not difficult, but it is different." And you need to understand what's different in this transition to battery electric vehicles.
Jason Morgan:
When you're talking with customers, what is really driving this? Do you see the need for sustainability? Is it regulation? Where do they fall in terms of, I want to do this or I have to do this?
Trish Reed:
So, combination.
Jason Morgan:
Okay.
Trish Reed:
I think first and foremost, obviously in the state of California we see a lot of regulation happening. Then we see states looking to adopt carb, so that's moving that way. Lastly, we have Greenhouse Gas Phase 3 coming 2027, maybe a little later. But that's certainly going to drive change. But the second thing we have to acknowledge is we do have customers that have sustainability goals or they have customers with sustainability goals. So helping customers achieve those or how do they plan to achieve those is an important step to adoption as well and what's driving some of that. And then obviously we see a lot of technology changing, coming with battery electric vehicles, so that's positive. And I like to tell customers, "We can debate all day long about how fast this might come, but it is coming." The snowball has started running down the mountain side and when the snowball starts, we know it's all about momentum and it will continue to go.
Jason Morgan:
Right. So what does that look like then? So I'm a fleet, I've been a customer, I've been buying international trucks and I work with my dealer and buy a truck and it's wonderful and we run it. But does the fundamental relationship change? What's the plan in working with you all to roll this out?
Trish Reed:
Yeah, this is so different that we've set up a dedicated team within zero emissions to help customers through this. And we really start with, we call it consulting, but I would really say it's going in, sitting down with a customer and understanding what are their concerns around the transition? What are their questions around the transition? What do they think in the short term, long term? What's their motivation? Is it regulation? Is it sustainability? Is it, "Hey, personally I know I just need to start learning how this is going to impact my fleet."
So we really start there as the first step of a three step process. Sitting down with a customer, asking a lot of questions, understanding where they're at. This is different than what we do when we're in the ICE vehicle because we're talking about selling you a vehicle, we're going in, we're talking about the product. This is so not about the product anymore, this is about everything else, the ecosystem around the product. So we start with that consulting piece. The second piece is charging and infrastructure. Which I will say is probably the most complex piece for all of us.
This is new and different for us as an OE, it's new and different for our dealers, it's new and different for our customers. This is the fueling strategy. So it's important to get that right. So sitting down with the customers, trying to guide them in the right charging hardware decisions to make, but also the infrastructure. And it can be a long timeline around power needs coming into a building. We want to just do this once. So though the customer may not know exactly what the future looks, we really try and understand as best as we can, what's the future look like so we can future-proof you for five years out. So that's super important.
The last piece, the third piece is all about what we call customer onboarding. Our dealers have delivered a lot of ICE vehicles. Our customers have taken delivery of a lot of those vehicles. Hand the keys over and say, "Thank you very much for your business. Call us if you need us." Now, the customer onboarding starts when the vehicle goes on order. Is the charging and infrastructure coming into place? The training at the customer, not just the technician, but driver training. When was the last time we had to teach drivers how to drive a vehicle? But that's super important. So that customer onboarding is a different step for us, but we think that's one of the most important steps to follow through on our consulting, the charging and infrastructure, so when the vehicle arrives, the customer can run it, operate it and just weave it right into their operations with minimal disruption.
Jason Morgan:
Right. No, I mean even going back to what we talk about range and expected range, and just like in a ICE vehicle, the driver and the way they operate the vehicle can impact the range there. It's different, there's regenerative braking, there's other systems in there you need to be aware of.
Trish Reed:
Definitely. And that's one of the things we've also instituted is a follow-up with a customer. So when we can get that connected data and we know how the driver is driving it. A lot of times drivers are hesitant to go in the third stage of regenerative driving, but some of the assumptions the customer made might've made that assumption that that's how the driver was behaving. So to go in there and understand, "Hey, we expected you to get this range. You are, you are exceeding it or you're coming under it, why?" Because we want to make sure if they're coming above it, let's understand why. If they're coming below it, let's help them get to that expected range.
Jason Morgan:
Right. And everything I've heard, there is a definite learning curve, but drivers take to it pretty quickly. But that training and understanding, yeah, it's different, it's new. That's an interesting takeaway too because you're having a lot of conversations, you're in the field working with a lot of these customers. What other lessons have you learned in these early days of rolling out the product and getting infrastructure on the ground and helping people through this transition? What have you learned?
Trish Reed:
Yeah. So we are learning all the time and that process, again, it's different in the space than the ICE. Good news for us is we have been building and delivering school buses for a couple of years now. So we did that, we launched a medium duty product. So we're not talking theory now, we are delivering vehicles and every experience we have, we learn from it. So what have we learned the most is the importance of the charging and infrastructure and making sure that's getting in place prior to the vehicle delivery. The customer onboarding, how important that is. And then helping customers just understand that this is doable. I think customers immediately sometimes find all the reasons why they can't, it's finding the reasons they can. And we can do that with telematics information and helping a customer understand by specific VINs.
What fits in the range that the battery electric vehicle can serve you? And then we bring in variables like ambient temperature and those other things. But helping the customer knock down what are the perceived barriers to entry on this. But I think also the charging and infrastructure. And I would say with that portable charging. And what do we mean by portable charging? Couple of things is one, don't maybe make a rush decision on putting chargers in cement right now because the flow of your operation may change and you'll want to learn and evolve as that goes. So portable charging options. Also, portable charging options if there's a delay getting enough power into the building. So that has been a key learning and bringing to the market services and solutions to help our customers with portable charging.
Jason Morgan:
It can ease into it too. Because like you pointed out, change. I mean, how many people will go, "Yeah, we love change. Let's change right now." I mean, it's hard to do. I mean, that's why we have change management and all these other things. But yeah, making it approachable because it can seem overwhelming. Are there any myths that we can bust right now? Any preconceived notions that you run into the customers of like, "Ah, it's going to be this or it's going to be that," that you've seen isn't true?
Trish Reed:
I think first and foremost, I think a lot of our customers think, "Hey, if an administration change or something changes, this is all going to stop and go away." To my previous point, this is not going away. This is happening, speed might vary, but this is happening. So definitely don't stick your head in the sand and pretend this is not going to happen. Start now. The learning curve, the infrastructure, all this takes time. So the other thing we'd say is don't put it off, you have to start now. And thirdly is the range, we talked about, that that's a barrier to entry. We can help customers understand that and get through that and knock down that barrier. So the good news is we're doing this, we've understood a lot of the barriers to entry, we can help customers through that. And again, if you want to start small or you want to go big or you're not even sure where to start, our process can navigate you through that.
Jason Morgan:
Well, I wanted a little more on that. What degree of starting now is starting? Back to your earlier point, in today's world when we buy ICE truck, that means I'm probably talking to a dealer about product and we're probably talking dollars and cents and equipment and build spots and all that. But what does start now look like in the EV world? Is it just a conversation? Do I need to know anything or can I just pick up the phone and call? What does start now mean?
Trish Reed:
Great question. That is exactly right. Let's just start now with a conversation. Let's sit down, let's talk about what your concerns are, why you maybe don't believe that this can work or why you're motivated to try to make it work. Let's start there. The telematics information that we can get, whether we already have it or we can get it from you, is really helpful to start that process to understand what VINs are electrifiable, how might the charging strategy work? So we just start with discussions. And I think at Navistar, the other great thing we have is a lot of engagement from a lot of functions. Our service solutions group with warranty, Navistar Financial. So really being able to package a holistic solution for our customers that addresses their concerns. But the first part is just start that conversation, let's start talking about what this can look like year one through at least year five.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, you even go back to some of the things of how it's different for you all, it's different for the fleets, it's different for everyone. It's also different for utilities, who are now a new player in this and that relationship can vary. And I need a partner that also has a relationship that might be able to get me to pull through that and get some projects moving and some interest there.
Trish Reed:
Great point, again, because our partnerships with charging partners and then also Quanta is significant. And Quanta has significant utility relationships, they're experts in helping design and construct and even commission chargers. So having a partner like that that know-how, knows how to work with utilities has been proven to be very beneficial for us and the customers. And again, the infrastructure is again one of the most complex pieces for our customers to get through. So Quanta being a partner to us has been significant. And again, can't emphasize the starting now. I'd also go back to one of your other questions about one of the things to debunk from a myth is, "Hey, the grid can't handle this."
Jason Morgan:
Yes. Exactly. Can't do it.
Trish Reed:
Again, with Quanta and our utility partners, they would tell you the grid can manage it. Now, where the power is and where that grid can feed power is the biggest question because that takes substations and transforms. So finding the right location is super critical and then start the power coming into that building in case there's not enough power in the substation or transformer.
Jason Morgan:
Right. And so that's Quanta's world. Because that's a new name to me and that's someone that you're partnered with so that when I work with you all, we have that backing then too to help get this in the ground and get this going. Okay. Because I feel like that is a big... We start talking about this world that, "Hey, we're used to rolling into the diesel pump and filling it up." Now we have new equipment too, but we have different partners, different energy sources. I want to be able to leverage those relationships.
Trish Reed:
Right. Yeah. And that's probably a little bit different for Navistar. We've been able to do this on our own with our dealers, helping our customers. Now it really takes a much bigger approach to help our customers with a lot of different partners we never probably thought we'd be working with. Like the charging hardware, the Quantas, even different elements of energy providers when you think about microgrids and other things that could be coming to help our customers manage energy in the future.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Yeah. Because you have infrastructure at some dealers now, I believe too, right?
Trish Reed:
Yes.
Jason Morgan:
And you've put actual infrastructure in the ground. So you've been through that process, you've walked the talk, so to speak, there and understand that. Okay, so you're telling me range. So you're telling me that range anxiety shouldn't be a thing? Because this is what people talk to, "Does it have enough range? Will I have enough range? Can I get there?" Should this not be a concern?
Trish Reed:
It should not be a concern, definitely with certain applications.
Jason Morgan:
Okay.
Trish Reed:
The range works today, technology is improving, it's getting better. We have fits for range for vehicles. Granted, there's some applications long haul, there's public infrastructure that needs to happen. But we are also helping customers work through that with understanding where could we do different charging at depots and helping them break up a route and helping them find a way to make those longer ranges work. Now, that might be a small shift in operations. So I think there's two options for customers. Once we understand how your vehicles are running today, there are vehicles that would just plug and play in battery electric, and then there's some that might need a change in your operations and how you do things if you're really wanting to move more of your fleet to electric vehicles.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Okay. Because going back to it too because I know we're dancing around here, but I do want to make sure that's that telematics component. So I can give you the, 'This is where my vehicles..." I can anonymize it. So, "Here are my vehicles, here are my routes." You can give me a percentage by that vehicle, when you were saying the VIN specific? So it's like this part of your fleet fits operation today.
Trish Reed:
Perfect description. We can do it VIN specific, but we can also look at the trips and say, "Some trips could be electrifiable if you make modest adjustments to your operation." So it's twofold.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. Interesting. And now going into the operations. Fleets hone their operation, they sharpen their operations, they're working on very thin margins. So what about this? Can you bust this myth? "Too expensive, too complicated. I don't know how to even do this. How am I going to pay for this?" What do you say to a customer that's dealing with that?
Trish Reed:
Great question. And we get that a lot from customers. So first and foremost is we've got a team that works with customers to try to find grants and incentives that are out there. If we find those vehicles that are electrifiable, how do we stack grants? It could be federal, it could be state, it could be local. How do we help those customers find those grants, apply for them and help them fund the equipment? I think the second piece of this, obviously technology is going to continue to improve and over time there will be improvements.
And if you think about electric vehicles, there's a lot less moving parts in electric vehicle. I also like to think, EV is a catalyst of change. So customers who would normally turn their fleet every three to five years because of maintenance, this is going to look a lot different with electric vehicles. The other thing to consider is fuel costs. Fuel costs can be very variable. Now with energy costs, we tend to know what that is, especially when you power your vehicles to charge them and help customers manage that. And that could take some variability out too. So we can always look at that and find all the reasons not to, but there's a lot of positives and a lot of opportunities with electrification to help customers make TCO make sense as we progress down this timeline.
Jason Morgan:
Just wrapping your head around it and just working with the right people to get there. That sounds great. We are into the first couple of weeks here of the new year, we're in 2024, a lot coming down the line. What should we expect? What's new? What can we look forward to this year in terms of zero emissions?
Trish Reed:
Well, I think first and foremost, the product roadmap that we have, that we are excited to share new news, big news at ACT in May of 2024. So we would encourage customers to stop by our booth when we're all together in May of 2024. That'll be exciting. And then I think also we'll have more and more news to talk about how we're helping customers in this journey. Because again, we are doing it and we're learning every day and that makes us better at helping our customers make the transition to electrification.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Well, great. Well, I can't wait to hear that news. But in your terms, start now. I want to start now, what's the best way to get started with you?
Trish Reed:
Start now is reach out to your dealer or reach out to your local salesperson, if you know that person, that works for Navistar, and they will connect you with our team in zero emissions.
Jason Morgan:
Perfect. Trish, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Had a great time.
Trish Reed:
Same here. Thank you. And thank you all for watching. This has been the EV Fleet Roadmap, a Navistar podcast about your fleet's path towards zero emissions. I'm Jason Morgan and we'll see you next time.